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be NO Ww ws Oo OY ~] oO Ke) a oO he be No (ee) = Hs Oo _ OY a ~] a oO a Ke} 20 21 22 23 24 25 Case 1:20-cr-00330-PAE Document 747 _ Filed 08/10/22 Page 93 of 228 769 LC2Qmax3 Rocchio - Cross Q. Being nice to someone is not considered grooming, correct? A. In the context of a healthy normal relationship, no. Q. You also talked about grooming the environment. Do you recall that testimony? A. I do. Q. And that is an alleged perpetrator manipulating the environment around the perpetrator and children to achieve an imoroper purpose, correct? A. An alleged or found perpetrator manipulating often the individuals in the child's environment. Q. Well, and that could include manipulating people around the perpetrator as well, correct? A. Yes. Q. Right. So if the perpetrator is in a business, for example. Let's say the perpetrator is a boy scout leader, to use your example, right? A. Okay. Q. The perpetrator could deceive co-employees or their bosses so that the behavior that the perpetrator is engaging in looks normal to the people around the perpetrator, correct? A. Yes. Perpetrators are quite good at hiding their manipulative behaviors. Q. And deceiving those people around them, correct? A. They can, yes. Q. And those folks can become sort of pillars in the community SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00012378