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be NO Ww ws Oo OY ~] oO Ke) a oO he be No (ee) = Hs Oo _ OY a ~] a oO a Ke} 20 21 22 23 24 25 Case 1:20-cr-00330-AJN Document 765 Filed 08/10/22 Page 66 of 95 2804 LCIAMAX2ps were lots of women there and, you know, there are many -- no one --— no one observed women that they thought were under ag But it's not -—- I don't believe there is going to be an argument, Ms. Maxwell is not guilty because she couldn't have known that these four people were whatever age they ar I think the argument is going to be, they weren't that age. That's what I think the defense's position is here, your Honor, not, you know, gee, Mr. Epstein slipped in a couple of teenagers on me here. MR. ROHRBACH: Your Honor, unless the defense is stipulating that Ms. Maxwell knew the ages of these victims, and it's an open issue. The defense has elicited from Larry Visoski, Kimberly Espinosa, the appearance of the victims. They elicited from Carolyn that she was told not to tell -- or told to tell people at the house that she was 17 or 18, when she was younger than that. So the evidence that's been elicited certainly puts the defendant's knowledge of the victims' age at issue. THE COURT: Yes. There are two issues. There's the first question, what age were they. And you contest that. But then there's the second question of, let's assume the jury concludes that they were under the age of 17, then there is the question of Ms. Maxwell's knowledge, and that seems to me to have been put in issue through argument and -- through openings and questions asked on cross. SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS, P.C. (212) 805-0300 DOJ-OGR-00016992