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Page for Bear Stearns. And Bear Stearns was one of our banks. And I knew that my father was friendly with both Jimmy Cayne and with Ace Greenberg. So my dad came -- was actually in New York, I think. f remem- -- I may -- I don't think I had this conversation on the phone, but honestly we're talking 30 years ago, so I'm not sure. But if I I maybe I told him this verbatim, because it happened -- I know that what my dad did, whether I saw it or whether I -- he did it and told me later I -- that I don't remember. But he called both Jimmy Cayne and Ace Greenberg to ask if -- what sort of guy he was and was he even allowed to -- because (indiscernible) so BLANCHE: So they never -- they never GH : ELL: He didn't even know who he was. TODD BLANCHE: But they had -- they -- they knew some of the same people, it sounds like, or certainly the Bear Stearns connection was something that -- that you -- that you knew that they had. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. Well, he never MAGNA®© LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR-00022407