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Yes. both. Okay. Yes. Both. Okay. And do you know when they met? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. know when they met. But you can time it. Wel] don't know that you can. No. I don't know. TODD BLANCHE: So, but what was the nature their relationship, as far as you know? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think they were friends and I think that they were business partners. Well, partners, too strong a word, but they were -- they did business together. TODD BLANCHE: So did you -- again, I want to stay focused on the time where you were the most involved in his life, so -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The '90s. TODD BLANCHE: -- the early '90s through early 2000s. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And the beginning -- beginning of the 2000s, yes. TODD BLANCHE: Did -- did you - talked about four people, so -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: There's more. MAGNA®© LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR-00022460