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Page TODD BLANCHE: And when you say "help," the same help in business or what help? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, so-- so -- have no idea what he did for her. I know he helped her financially. Her husband was the controller of New York. So, but I don't -- again, I'm not inside his business, but he would've -- his -- his -- this notion that he black -- blackmailed men or we don't really have to go there, that he wasn't a businessman and that everything he did was a fraud or a funk or what -- I don't believe that to be true. TODD BLANCHE: Why? GHISLAINE ELL: sorry? TODD BLANCHE: Why do you -- so you say you don't believe i to be true, but show me why you think that. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. TODD BLANCHE: Just from -- I know you've been talking about it, that he was very -- he was very conscientious. He was very good at math. He was -- took, paid a lot of attention to his clients, but -- but yes. You're right. There's allegations of f blackmail or also that -- that there was some level of Fraud involved in what he did, and you don't believe it. Why do you -- why do you MAGNA®© LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR-00022465