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Page 88 and -- and someone who's underage. But even with somebody who's an adult, did you know Mr. Epstein to encourage folks to do that, whether it's a client or somebody else? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So with a -- with a -- certainly witnessed him. So if you were staying with him and you had a massage that -- he would often travel with a masseuse. He would say, hey, would you like a massage? And he did do that, yes. TODD BLANCHE: But would you or him or anybody else follow up with the masseuse afterwards, find out if there was any inappropriate sexual tact? GHISLAINE MAXWI : I never did, no. TODD BLANCHE: So meaning -- and then coming back to the blackmail issue. G SLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, yeah. TODD BLANCHE: There's nothing wrong with getting a massage, Of course not. Especially, you know, especially if somebody's obviously an adult masseuse. There's -- I'm not gquibbling with that. But my question is that there's a lot of accusations that -- that one of the way Mr. Maxwell I'm sorry, Mr. Epstein was successful, was -- was through this idea of blackmail. MAGNA®© LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR-00022480