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on TIMA OB WN TE Page 30 came to any of us, at any time, ever. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So -- so when you are talking about your life with Mr. Epstein in the ‘90s, you -- you're -- you're not -- you -- you're very different financially. You -- you're very different financially positioned than he is -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. TODD BLANCHE: -- meaning he's giving you money, he's paying for your -- when you fly, he -- I assume pays for your flights. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. So you -- you -- | interrupted you when you were saying how you were functioning as a general manager. You helped with the New Mexico ranch. So did -- did your role with him continue like that for many years or for how long? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I continued -- in 2000 -- well, in -- by 1999, our relationship had foundered. In -- TODD BLANCHE: Why? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- well, two reasons: We were never sleeping together again. So we stopped having sexual relations in 1999. Not full sex. Sorry, just to be clear. Didn't mean that we Page 31 didn't still share a bed bedroom sometimes or whatever. He had another girlfriend. TODD BLANCHE: He had what? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Other girlfriends. I definitively knew that it was over after 9/11, actually, because we were both in New York and I don't know, were you in New York on 9/11? I mean, 9/11... And it was a scary time if you were in New York. You didn't know, I didn't know, nobody knew what was going on. And he was in 71st Street and I was in 65th Street, my house. And he wouldn't see me at all. Asked me, his mum, who I'm very close to, who's 1n hospital at Lennox Hill, just asked me to look after her. And then I knew, as anyone did at that time, if you're not going to be there for someone in 9/11, you're never going to be there. So for me, that was the line's end. And he had another English girlfriend actually, from 2000. TODD BLANCHE: Are you, though, still on his -- are you still being paid by him at this point? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So -- so go ahead. So what -- what -- at that point, when you MAGNA®© OAD OB WNHRF DW HO OHI HD OB WN BO NMNNDN DNWD + OP wr rF ow onan OB WN TE NPRPRPPRPRP PR PE OCoOMDDTAUBWNHEOOE Page 32 say you realized kind of it was over? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I mean, I'm talking about the -- the -- I had had, there was a -- Thad wanted to get married and have children. And Epstein had encouraged me to believe that that would -- I don't know about the -- certainly by the mid late '90s, I knew the marriage part was never going to happen. I had believed that maybe in '96, '97, '98 maybe, but then I realized it wasn't that. But I did think that we might have a child, which is what I had really wanted. And I realized -- TODD BLANCHE: So -- so -- okay. So what happens between 2001 and then 2019 with your relationship with him? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So -- TODD BLANCHE: Give or take, 2001. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So we stopped having physicality. I mean, that doesn't mean we weren't friends. I certainly did stay, sometimes, in his room. I mean, friends with benefits, if you will, just not sex. Sorry. And IJ started dating. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I met someone that Page 33 I fell very much in love with in 2003. His name was Ted Waitt. Ted Waitt, you may know as the founder of Gateway, the computers. And we had an amazing relationship that ended in -- went on until 2010, I think. And I was with Ted from that time. TODD BLANCHE: Did you meet him through Mr. Epstein? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. Well, indirectly, I suppose you could say so. No, they'd never met. I was at a dinner where I met Ted, but it wasn't -- I was with President Clinton. President Clinton was my friend, not Epstein's friend. And Epstein had flown him and there was a dinner and Ted came to the dinner. So I guess, indirectly, through Mr. Epstein, because it was with his plane, but I'd have been there anyway without him. I had -- was not the -- DAVID MARKUS: Was Epstein on the plane when you guys flew? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: On that trip, yes. Well, yes. They -- that, yes. TODD BLANCHE: So when you say the -- the dinner was -- was where? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Hong Kong. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. And so the -- and 9 (Pages 30 to 33) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022664