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onwtrn Oe WN EP Page 34 you had flown over with -- so who was on the plane for that trip? I don't mean everybody. When you said, so Mr. Epstein was on the plane? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: You were on the plane? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: Who else, that you can remember? I'm not, you know, you only remember what you remember. DAVID MARKUS: Was President Clinton on the plane? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Clinton. He would've -- he would've had his guy, Doug Vance, maybe Jason Cooper, maybe the two. TODD BLANCHE: And you -- and so why -- so -- so how do you meet -- so -- so why did you say that’s when you met him and that you met him through Clinton? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, it was a -- I don't think Ted would've been there, had it not been a -- it was a President Clinton dinner and Ted came to be with President Clinton -- TODD BLANCHE: I see. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not to be with Page 35 Mr. Epstein. Does that make sense? TODD BLANCHE: Yes. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's why I say that. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So you're -- you're, so in the time that you're dating, that you're with him to 2009, are you still working for Mr. Epstein during that time? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So his -- so it'd be true to say that Jeffrey tried very hard, he tried very hard to -- to keep me to working for him, because this is a complex operator. I'm not talking about anything untoward, just the sheer size of the projects. I'm talking the construction projects, the houses, the staff. It's a -- it's areally significant job. And I ran all the properties, the staff in the properties, the management of the properties that -- and all the construction. And we're talking tens of millions of dollars for the island alone. I can't remember what the budget was for the construction on any given year, it's gone. But it -- it was -- these are very significant projects. And so that was what I did. And I managed the budgets. Well, not, I didn't MAGNA®© on TIMA OB WN TE NVFPRPRPRPRPPRP REE OCwWMODTAUBWNHEOOE BANOO BFWNHRrF OO WMAATHD OB WN EP NM NM NN ND +t Or WNF OO Page 36 manage the budgets, I oversaw the budgets. So I would just make sure that if you said you bought an air conditioning part, I saw an air conditioning part and I could call the island manager. Did you receive the Carrier, whatever, you know. TODD BLANCHE: When did Mr. Epstein purchase the island? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say '96 or '97, something like that. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're going to come back and spend more time on the money with -- with respect to Mr. Epstein and -- and his wealth. But just so we can finish this, so in 2009, you end your relationship with Ted. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: 2009, 2010. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't remember if it was '10. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So in that time period, what happens next with -- as far as your relationship with Mr. Epstein? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't have one with him. TODD BLANCHE: You don't have one with Page 37 him, like you don't see him or it's just a different relationship? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I did see -- I maybe saw him once or twice, maybe even three times. I certainly went to his house once, for sure, maybe twice. But I was not seeing him. The only time that I was in touch with him was when the things happened. Like things, I mean, in the press that affected me or when the CVRA case was filed and there was like rubbish that went out, because I needed information. Because I didn't know -- I didn't know anything about what was happening and I needed his help. A, to under- -- I -- I-- well, that doesn't sound right. Let me rephrase that. I don't mean his help. I meant to have answers, so that I had an ability to defend myself, that's what I'm talking about. I'm not talking any- -- TODD BLANCHE: So when does that relationship change? So -- so you're working -- you talked about when your -- the physical relationship stopped and then you're still working for him, or with him managing his properties and being -- serving as like a general manager. You then start your own relationship with 10 (Pages 34 to 37) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR-00022665