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on TIMA OB WN TE Page 54 stunned when I was arrested. But maybe stunned is too big a word, but surprised. I certainly was. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So let's -- okay. So that's -- that's -- was a long description of -- of what was a very long life and that was very helpful. So I want to go back and talk more specifically now about particular areas, and, but that was a -- a very helpful kind of foundation for -- for us. The first -- the first thing I want to 10 talk about, you talked about earlier on, about 11 Mr. Epstein's financial success. What -- you know, 12 do you know how he -- when you first meet him, at 13 some point you say, "I got this place for you to 14 rent, you can't afford it." And he laughs at you and 15 says, "Yes. I can.” 16 What did you learn about his wealth and 17 how he was -- and how he accumulated his money? 18 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can tell you whathe 19 told me. 20 TODD BLANCHE: Yes. 21 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: SolI--I know that he 22 was hired from working at a private school whose name 23 eludes me at this point. 24 LEAH SAFFIAN: Dalton. 25 Page 55 on TIAN OAs WN Ee Ne] GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Dalton. He was working at Dalton, he was a math teacher. And he met, I think it was Ace, I'm not sure. He met someone from Bear who hired him, because he was very good at math. And I believe that he then worked on creating a trading of, oh, my gosh. TODD BLANCHE: Just describe it. It's okay. Go ahead. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He came -- came up with some new type of trading system. Not -- not a system so much, but as a -- as a -- as a --as vehicle. A trading vehicle. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm just escaping right now. TODD BLANCHE: And this is while -- while he was working at -- at Bear Stearns? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: At Bear Stearns. Yes. TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And, well -- TODD BLANCHE: And was this before you met oO TN OA PWN EE PRP RP WN FO wo GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: So this is what he told Page 56 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: What you learned? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. This is what he told me -- TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- himself. TODD BLANCHE: And so -- and then eventually he starts a financial firm? Do you know that to be true or no? J. Epstern & Company. You ever heard of that? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's, yeah. Yes. So hang on a minute. So I -- this I did not know, but this I have subsequently learned -- TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- is that he had some problem or some issue at Bear Stearns and there was some, I don't know, disagreement. He wasn't fired, because obviously he was still very friendly with Ace and with Jimmy, at least by the time I met him, but they were working with him and he ran -- he had cli- -- money at Bear Stearns, and -- TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- his money, his client's money. We'll -- I'll come to that. But he started -- he told me himself that Page 57 he started a business where he looked for stolen money. So if somebody -- let's see. I'm trying to think of some intelligent way to say it, but I can't think of anything, I've been with -- not great -- I'll -- I'll give it to you. So let's say you have El Chapo, oh God, I don't know where he comes from. But anyway, we've got El Chapo. And El Chapo's laundering money or still -- he's working with the Sinaloa Cartel and he steals money from the Sinaloa Cartel and he moves it to wherever. So he's got stolen money from the Sinaloa, goes to it. This didn't happen. I'm just TODD BLANCHE: Yeah -- yeah. I understand. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- just coming up with something in my head. And the Sinaloa says to Epstein, "Can you track down my billion dollars that, the car- -- the other cartel stole from me?" And Epstein will go and find the billion dollars and will take a portion of the money that was stolen at a fee and give back the remainder. That would be on a percentage basis. TODD BLANCHE: No. But like what you just described, which I appreciate what you said, a MAGNA® 15 (Pages 54 to 57) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR-00022670