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AAD OPFWNF DH OATH UBF WNY HE Page 98 they don't take off their clothes. Basically suggested they had to watch him masturbate. Like the things that have been publicly said about what he did. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not -- TODD BLANCHE: For now I'm not -- I'm not distinguishing adults or -- or -- or young or underage women for that. I'm saying abuse. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm -- I'm going to think that that would've been a habit. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm going to say that the massage game was a habit. And I think -- DAVID MARKUS: What does that mean? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That means that I'm sure that he didn't suddenly start having relations with masseuses in 2002. DAVID MARKUS: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I am sure he must have had relations with masseuses, who knows when. TODD BLANCHE: But you're saying, as far as you -- I -- used the word abuse. You're saying that as far as you sit here today, you would describe that more as consensual? Meaning the masseuse did those -- did this willingly? Page 99 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- I saw him with lots of masseuses. I never saw a single masseuse ever look unhappy or not come back or whatever. So based on my observation, I don't think that if you are being raped, as now he's like this prolific -- I just -- I just can't imagine why you would return. TODD BLANCHE: That's not what you observed at the time? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Not what I observed at the time, no. TODD BLANCHE: I want to -- we're -- we're going to spend a little -- we're going to spend more time on this issue, because I -- I think it's important. But just going back to kind of the -- the question that I started with in this area, which is that it ties into the blackmail issue. So we talked about people that were his clients, and you've mentioned President Clinton, and then early on -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, I never said he was a client. TODD BLANCHE: I -- I did not say you said. I'm saying when you talk about his clients. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, okay. Right. TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. And puts his clients MAGNA®© Or~ATIN OF WNP DH WAAIHDHO PWN FP DMM NH DN ND 1! oe WHR OO © Orx~AInN OP WHF DWM WDAAIHD OB WN FP DM NM HDHD DW tt oer WHR OO © off the side. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. TODD BLANCHE: And then you mentioned some other people. You mentioned President Clinton -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: -- you mentioned President Trump early on. Who were other famous/politicians, who were other individuals in Mr. Epstein's life during that time period? So the early '90s -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was the '90s. Let's -- should we just -- TODD BLANCHE: Yes. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Congressman McMillen. TODD BLANCHE: Say it again. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: McMillen. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Henry Rosovsky, who was the provost of Harvard. Hang on (Indiscernible). TODD BLANCHE: Sure. You're looking at your -- your -- your notes. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: Go ahead. Go ahead. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Joe Pagano, Jerry Page 101 Goldsmith, Joe Roberts, Kenny Lipper, Dan Abramson. I don't know if in the '90s Tom Pritzker, Ace, Jimmy Cayne, Lou Ranieri. I mean, there were -- TODD BLANCHE: What about the royal family? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. He didn't know them in the '90s. TODD BLANCHE: What about the -- the -- what about Prince Andrew? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Didn't know him in the ‘90s. TODD BLANCHE: When did -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, well -- is that right? TODD BLANCHE: I wouldn't know. I do not know. So I don't want you to have -- to worry about exact dates. You're -- you're not positive about that. But you don't have a specific recollection of that being in the '90s? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- I can -- I can date it for you, I think, but I can't give you -- TODD BLANCHE: That's okay. I think that's fine. 26 (Pages 98 to 101) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022681