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ODr~wAnA OAR WNHeRF OCW WAIN OO PWN PB Page 118 that was the person he had the most massages, yoga, and that -- with -- at that time in the '90s period. The second thing is that -- is he told me he didn't -- he had difficulty having an erection, and I believed him. TODD BLANCHE: When you said he said that, you mean he regularly told you that? Like he -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: When I first -- because when I didn't have sex with him after the first time, and it took -- so I asked him, was it me? And he told me it was him. And I had never, up until this moment in my life, I -- as if I'm not stupid. I'm very bright. I've had an excellent education. I traveled all over the world. I had had boyfriends, but I had never met or understood that somebody could be so -- would lie to me about -- I could -- it never occurred to me. I didn't have a frame of context within my life experience where somebody would be so manipulative and devious with me. I just -- and plus, I just didn't have -- I just -- and I was happy not to have sex, because I have a condition that doesn't lend itself to that. TODD BLANCHE: Does -- when you learned -- so fast forward just for a moment to the 2007, '08, Page 119 ‘09 time period and he's arrested and charged and there's all kinds of press around his purported contact, at that point -- at that point, did you accept that that was true? Meaning, did 1t make sense at that point? When you were reading about women who claimed that they had been abused, even underage and -- at that point, did you think to yourself, well, geez, that makes sense now that I think about it or no? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: First of all, I didn't -- that's -- I only read what was in the newspapers. I didn't have any other thing. And I'm embarrassed to say it, I didn't -- I didn't believe it. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Right. I mean, you didn't believe that the accusations were true at the time. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. So let's -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And sorry, I need to say, even if they were true, I believe that he was duped and he didn't know that they were -- whatever that was in the papers at that time, whether they said that they were 17 or, I didn't -- 1t didn't onda owt WNHE NNNNFPRPRPRPRPP RPE EE WNHEF OW MATA BWNHE OE No ul BAYAN PWN OW MATA OB WNE NO fF CO oO register, because -- TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- along with all of those -- well, not in 2006, but later when the more salacious and other allegations came out, I knew were utterly false, which then just reinforced my belief that the rest was not true. TODD BLANCHE: Let me ask you a question about the age of the masseuses over the years. It -- I think in my mind, there's a difference between you knowing or not knowing that a masseuse is under the age of 18 and coming to give a massage, and you knowing that Mr. Epstein, you know, sexually abused the underage person or made her strip or something like that, meaning -- and I want to understand whether you believe that nobody that came to give massages, none of the women were under 18 or that you didn't focus on their age, but you -- you were more focused on whether any underage woman was abused by him. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it's better to answer this question with corroborating evidence and then go back and explain, so that I frame -- TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- your understanding Page 121 of what I'm saying. Of the -- my understanding is that in 2000 and, let's say 2008, they had interviewed 44 women, let's say, or around that number. TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: You have to understand, not a single one of those 44 women mentioned me in a single report. And it's not because -- go back. They didn't mention me in their report because they never met me, they never saw me, and they never interacted with me. So to go back to your question, it's not that I thought one way or another, it's that I didn't see them. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Isee. Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Does that -- TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, no, that's helpful. So -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not -- and but when I say not one, not single one of those reports talked about me. And I just want to clarify exactly, because I'm obviously aware that one of those girls is -- was one of the witnesses in my trial, specifically DOJ REDACTION To use her own testimony so that you don't MAGNA® 31 (Pages 118 to 121) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022686