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ODr~wAnA OAR WNHeRF OCW WAIN OO PWN PB Page 158 I'm nervous about the state of the ocean. When Ted and I, we worked with National Geographic and we did exploratory work and the most exciting -- we did many exciting things, but one of the most fabulous ones that we did was we looked for Amelia Earhart twice. I did two expeditions to look for Amelia Earhart, as an example of an -- of a exploration that we did. And he had a foundation for the ocean and we worked with Nat Geo, we worked with Woods Hole. We did amazing things. We bought-- he bought the Remus 6000, so when the plane went missing, the plane that went -- was it Air France? From Brazil to Paris that went down, it was the Remus 6000 that found that plane. It's one of those deep sea explorers. Anyway, when I broke up with Ted, I just -- one of the things I did not want to give up was the -- my love of the ocean and everything that we did and TerraMar, the genesis of TerraMar came from that. So TerraMar obviously means land, sea. And the story of the ocean is that earth really shouldn't be called earth, it should be called ocean because three quarters is the ocean. So -- and so I wanted to not clash with Page 159 anything to do with Ted, because it was a bit awkward between us and I -- so he took all the part of the ocean that was close to land, so within 200 miles. And so I decided I would focus on all the part of the ocean that was outside of national borders, TerraMar. And that's how that -- that's the genesis of TerraMar. Okay. TODD BLANCHE: So what was the time period of that? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That -- I think after I broke up with Ted, so 2010, '11 is when it started. And then I ran it all the way up until whenever the Epstein drama struck and then I just shut it down. Not -- I shut it down because I didn’t want what was happening to hurt any -- the Smithsonian or Nat Geo or the -- I just couldn't let everything be hurt by what was happening to me. TODD BLANCHE: Do you know Jean-Luc Brunel? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: How do you know him? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him -- so when -- I told you I was working for the European, for my dad -- TODD BLANCHE: Uh-huh. oO TN OA PF WN EF Xe] Aryan oOP WNP TD HO DAI HOB WN HE Nh + oO © Page 160 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- and I was in charge. TODD BLANCHE: So back in like '90, early '90s? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. And I was running a magazine. One of the things in the magazine is fashion. And so I was going to some fashion shows and I was looking for fashion sponsorship. And in fact, when I came to America, one of the first sponsors that I got for it was Ron Perelman at Revlon, who was great. And I met Jean-Luc through just in Paris like that. But socially not ... TODD BLANCHE: Did Mr. Epstein know him as well? Did you later learn whether they knew each other? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not sure I -- I don't -- he would've -- Epstein had his own fashion situation, so he would've -- I don't -- he didn't meet Jean-Luc through me. TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe them together over the years? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Absolutely. Yeah, I saw them many times together. TODD BLANCHE: Did -- did he visit the Page 161 island? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: Did he go to Palm -- meet -- go to Palm Beach House? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes, he went -- yeah, he went everywhere. I saw him in every place. TODD BLANCHE: Did do you ever observe him getting a massage or do you ever know whether they got amassage? Maybe you didn't observe him personally? You don't remember. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. I mean, I don't -- I never -- Ihave no conscious memory of Jean-Luc. I would imagine that he did, but I never -- I don't see it. TODD BLANCHE: How about Mr. Weinstein, Harvey Weinstein? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: What would you like to know? TODD BLANCHE: Do you know him? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: How do you know him? Like, I guess when I say "how do you know him," is it a relationship you had kind of separate from Mr. Epstein or did you guys -- did you meet him through Mr. Epstein or both? MAGNA® 41 (Pages 158 to 161) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022696