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OAD OB WNHRF DW HO OHI HD OB WN Page 182 his -- I don't know if he was chief of staff or whoever, Boris. And I met him, I think, once. I may have met him actually at 71st Street. I may have once. I don't remember if I met him there or at a restaurant, I don't remember. And that would've been because of Epstein, because Epstein was friendly with Boris and Boris -- that's all I remember. TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether Mr. Gates traveled with Mr. Epstein on his plane to any of his houses? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So if that -- that friendship was after, you know, it was in the late 2000s. So if I met him -- like I said, I went to Epstein's house maybe once or twice. Maybe I met him there. I don't remember. TODD BLANCHE: So you don't -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So I wouldn't know if he had been on Epstein's plane. TODD BLANCHE: And you weren't -- you don't recall ever being on the plane with him flying to the island or to anywhere? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. TODD BLANCHE: Do you know somebody named Reid Hoffman? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do. Page 183 TODD BLANCHE: Who's that? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Reid is a Silicon Valley guy. TODD BLANCHE: Is what? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Silicon Valley. TODD BLANCHE: And how do you know him? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Through my friends in San Francisco. I have a -- I used to have a very close friend who is in San Francisco who's part of that whole -- I have several, actually, or had. TODD BLANCHE: So is that a relationship you had kind of separate and apart from Mr. Epstein? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Separate. TODD BLANCHE: Do you know whether Mr. Epstein had a relationship with Reid Hoffman? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't know. TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe Mr. Hoffman flying anywhere with you or Mr. Epstein? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. TODD BLANCHE: Or getting massages? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. No. TODD BLANCHE: So there was -- there's a list of multiple masseuses that is floating around. I think you had in your discovery. I think you were just talking about that. onda owt WNHE NNNFPRPPRPRPRP PR BE NF OW MAAIAUBWNHE OLE NN Gn as OAD OP WNF DO WAIN PWN EF NBM MB NHNDND ?t oF WHER OW Page 184 That list, do you know how that list was created? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. That -- all that stuff that came out of that book, I now find suspect. TODD BLANCHE: As far -- as part of the story you just told us? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Now, I'm not saying it's all fake. I don't know what's real and what's not. I don't -- TODD BLANCHE: Understood. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- know what name is true. Now that it's been to my mind anyway, now that it has been, without a doubt, contaminated and possibly fraudulent, I'm not -- I don't know. I mean, obviously the numbers that I recognize are my own, those are real. But how it was actually ended up put together and compiled and the purposes for it, for which then they blackmailed my boyfriend, now I'm just -- no. TODD BLANCHE: Over the years when you were serving as like the general manager, so the mid ‘90s all the way into the 2000s. Did you or do you know whether anyone maintained a list of all the masseuses, like a running list? Page 185 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So there would've -- so there's two things -- well, three ways. So I know that the house itself, John Alessi had a Rolodex that he kept the names and numbers of all the people that came to the house so that he could call. So --because I only was with Epstein, even at best, half the time. So when I was there, he had like his chief of staff who could find whatever he needed. And when I wasn't there, he had to rely on somebody else, right? So it'd be that John Alessi or whoever else. So everybody -- whoever was traveling with him or wherever he was, he needed somebody else to access information. So he had an assistant chief who was his secretary, who would be the one that would update his computer, you know, like everybody has an address book. TODD BLANCHE: But was what you're describing, which I'm not -- it makes sense. I'm just -- was that a list of masseuses or a list of people that might need to be contacted, which would, necessarily, include a lot of masseuses? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That's -- the latter. TODD BLANCHE: And did you update that? Like were you part of -- were you one of the people MAGNA® 47 (Pages 182 to 185) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022702