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ODr~wAnA OAR WNHeRF OCW WAIN OO PWN PB Page 206 TODD BLANCHE: Or the shortfallings or shortcomings of the Bureau of Prisons. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: Which is a little bit different than my -- from my question is, which is, do you think there was somebody on the outside of prison, so putting aside, what could happen on the inside on the outside of prison, who would -- who wanted him dead so badly that he would've, or she would've, you know, caused him to be killed on the inside? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think that’s -- I don't see that. I think, is it possible? Of course it's possible. But I don't know of any reason why, and I don't believe in the blackmail or in any of this, I don't think Epstein had a hit on like that. If it is indeed murder, I believe it was an internal situation. TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. So you're not -- you don't have any reason firsthand knowledge or even speculation, it sounds like, to think that he was -- if -- that he was killed to kind of silence him or to keep him from going public about people he knew about? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't, no, because I Page 207 think that is just part of the story that's been created that started back in 2008, '09. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Yeah, I mean, that's the point. Like, I don't want -- I don't think there's value in talking -- you know, there's been a lot of -- there's a lot of information about what happened, you know, at the MCC and -- but what is important to me is whether, you know, if -- is the idea that he didn't die by suicide, that's one thing. But if to the extent that folks believe that he was murdered to keep him quiet or because he had information on rich and powerful people, that's what I -- do you have any reason to believe that that's true? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not have any reason to believe that. And I also think it's ludicrous, because if that -- I also happen to think if that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty of opportunity when he wasn't in jail. And if they were worried about blackmail or anything from him, he would've been a very easy target. TODD BLANCHE: In the time -- so we've talked about a lot of time, all the way up through 2009, '10, and then your -- the time that after Mr. Epstein was arrested, when's the last time you ABAD OBFWNF OHM WAT HANO B WN EP NO NO +t rFOoOW onan OB WN TE RoR row Page 208 spoke with him? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Maybe 2016, 2017, maybe 2016 -- 2015, 2016, 2017 in that area, I believe. TODD BLANCHE: And what -- when you're thinking about that last tme was that you had talked -- been talking to him a lot, and then you stopped, or was that a one-off time and it was infrequent at that point? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: [really wasn't in communication. The only communications I had with him was in -- with regards to the civil suits, the civil suit that I found myself in, the defamation suit I found myself in. I needed help, I needed information, and I didn't have what I needed. And so that was really what it was -- that what drove it, was me trying to get myself out of this situation, which I -- ultimately led to where I am today. And so when -- when all that -- when that -- I don't remember even if I stopped talking to him before that, I think he was -- I thought he was angry with me anyway. He didn't like what I did, and he -- I wasn't interested in what he had to say to me, and -- Page 209 TODD BLANCHE: What did you think he was angry with you about? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was angry that I had even said that I had referred to her being a liar. He said I should have not said anything but. TODD BLANCHE: When the civil suits that were ongoing before Mr. Epstein's death? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: Did your lawyers coordinate with his lawyers, like in discovery and things like that or anything? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't think we coordinated in -- I don't -- I'm not sure. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't want to misspeak. I don't -- I -- there was some degree of communication for sure. I just don't know the degree that that took place. So definitely -- I mean, I was definitely hoping for him to be more helpful. And I was definitely, coordinating is not a good word, because that sounds like I was trying to make -- align myself. That's not where we were going here, but I was definitely trying to get help. As in documents or information that I could use to defend myself. MAGNA® 53 (Pages 206 to 209) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022708