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Page 277 with, all centered around Harvard. So I remember him. Martin Nowak, who's a mathematician. Stephen Jay Gould. I don't know if Stephen Jay Gould was -- came through the Harvard angle, but I know that there was a -- he would -- excuse me, Epstein would have dinners at the house that I was tasked to organize and the scientists were a very major component of that. They weren't social dinners as much as they were scientific. He would discuss whatever he would discuss. But if you were in the area of brain cognition or -- he would invite them to the house and they would come, all of them. All -- any name you can name, they would be there. TODD BLANCHE: So let's talk about that top -- that relation -- those -- those associations or relationships he had with the mathematicians or -- and with Harvard, and I think with MIT, to some extent as well. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: (indiscernible) MIT too, yeah. TODD BLANCHE: What -- from what you observed, what's the reason behind him having -- developing those ties with Harvard, with MIT, and MAGNA®© LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR-00022820