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Page 310 picture, do you -- at the time that you were in his life, did -- do you -- was he a -- did he seem to you to be a sexual deviant or, I don't know what the right way to describe it. But when you say to me, he was getting massages every single day, right? So young women were everywhere. Multiple massages on some days. Flew with the women to the island, to New York, Paris. There's always women, they're always rubbing him, giving him massages. I think it's -- it would be an understatement to say that that's not normal? G SLAINE MAXWELL: I agree. TODD BLANCHE: We've all kind of been par of the Epstein story over the past several years, but you were there at the time. Okay? What was it like at the time? I mean, was he a creepy guy when it came to that sort of thing? Was he protective of how he looked publicly, image wise? Like at the ime, what was it like? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think if he had been creepy, like, as you would define, and you would expect someone who was living that lifestyle to be creepy, I don't think the women would have been there. don't think that they thought of MAGNA®© LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR-00022853