DOJ-OGR-00022923.tif

onda owt WNHE Page 241 trip together. Was -- we went to -- dinosaur bone hunting in the Dakotas. TODD BLANCHE: When was that, you know, approximately? I'm not looking for an exact date, but when was that? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That was early -- that was in the early -- well, let me back up. I knew Bobby's wife, Mary, pretty well, actually. And before he met her. TODD BLANCHE: And just to help us, I know we're talking about a wide span of time, but what are you -- when are you talking about that you knew Mr. Kennedy's wife before they were married. So when are talking about the -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- in 19 -- all right. I guess, let's get my head straight. In -- TODD BLANCHE: Well, would this have been before you met Mr. Epstein -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: -- or after? Okay. So -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I met him before I met. TODD BLANCHE: So we're talking about the 1980s. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Oh, yes. Yes. Thank Page 242 you. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. The '80s. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So we're talking about the 1980s. And then -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: The -- I was the -- I had a very, very longstanding boyfriend and he had -- his brother was dating Mary at the time, and we were all very good friends. TODD BLANCHE: And then Mr. Epstein -- did Mr. Epstein meet Bobby Kennedy through you? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't -- I don't think so, because Mr. Epstein, surprisingly, everyone says everything happened through me. That's just not true. I mean, I think yesterday I explained that he had friends from London, and those are very -- they were what the people would call "fancy." TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: They were fancy people. And -- but he had the same types of relationships before I met him in America. So when I met him, he was already, you know, Wexner and he had Henry and he had -- he was --I don't know if then he was at the -- in the Council of Foreign Relations, but he was friends with Ace and, you know, like he MAGNA®© AAD OPFWNF DH OATH UBF WNY HE N+ Oo © 21 22 23 24 25 A~ATIN OP WNF DH DAIHOBWNHE N+ Oo © was -- he was well established. TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: He didn't need me. And he was, you know, his -- Eva was, you know, major model. So he had all these modeling connections and friends in that business, long before I met him. TODD BLANCHE: And so the trip that you went on with Mr. Epstein and Bobby Kennedy, was that in the '90s and 2000s when -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was in the -- it would've been in the -- I want to say '93, 94. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Soa very long time ago. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: A very, very long time ago. TODD BLANCHE: A few years into the -- your relationship -- a few years into the time that you knew Mr. Epstein? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. I mean, I don't want to hold myself to the dates because I really -- TODD BLANCHE: No, no. I'm not holding you to dates. I think -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Because I really don't Page 244 TODD BLANCHE: I've said that a lot, because I appreciate we're talking about the '80s and ‘90s and even the 2000s. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: And I just want you to know, I haven't had any -- I don't have anything to review, so I haven't had any ability to -- the short of my legal material, obviously, which you can -- you know I have, because I came with a box worth, but short of that, I have nothing with which to refresh -- or very limited stuff, I should say, I don't want to say nothing -- to refresh my mind. TODD BLANCHE: I understand that. Do you have any recollection of Mr. Kennedy -- of there being anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy and masseuses or young women on the trip you just talked about? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw anything inappropriate with Mr. Kennedy. TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether he ever got a massage from one of the masseuses? Do you know either way? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I do not. TODD BLANCHE: But not something you remember? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, absolutely 8 (Pages 241 to 244) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022923