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AAD OPFWNF DH OATH UBF WNY HE Page 257 Mr. Epstein's plane? Again, I'm not holding you to exact, but -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That was a full, that was packed. Because it was a lot of secret service. It took all the Secret Service as well. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So it was whatever the detail is for Secret Service, it's a lot. TODD BLANCHE: And on how many occasions, besides the trip you just described, were there other times when they used -- when President Clinton and the folks he was with, used Mr. Epstein's plane? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think it was -- there was twice, maybe. There was that. But it will reflect on the logs. There won't be anything that's not on the logs that you have already. TODD BLANCHE: Were you, by the way, responsible for the logs in any way? Like, you've seen the logs and they're public and you have them in discovery. But over the years when you were working with or for Mr. Epstein, did you have access to the logs? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was, not. No, never. The pilots -- the logbook was their personal Page 258 logbook. I never even saw them have it. I never saw them fill it in. And then there was a second set of logs, the -- the flight manifests. And I never saw those either. I was never -- I was never allowed, I suppose. Because he didn't want me to see. TODD BLANCHE: Do you know -- so do you know whether Mr. Epstein had a separate relationship with -- with President Clinton, different from the what you just described? So different than being with him, with respect to his foundation or something like this? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no. TODD BLANCHE: When's the last time that you went on a trip or saw President Clinton? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was in -- was late 2000 and, I don't know, '16, '17,'18, something in -- it was in Los Angeles. TODD BLANCHE: And what was the purpose of that meeting? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think he was hosting something or he was at an event and I was in L.A. and Thad dinner with him. TODD BLANCHE: Had -- did you ever meet ABAD OBFWNF OHM WAT HANO B WN EP NM NM NN ND + OF WNFrF OC © onan OB WN TE RoR row Secretary Clinton, Hillary Clinton? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: When did you meet her? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I want to say -- again, please don't hold me to it, but I want to say that it was on a flight that came from the island from -- not from the island, from the Nantucket or -- or Martha's Vineyard back to New York, is what I think. I might be wrong. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. So some -- an East Coast island, like Nantucket -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: -- Or something like this? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. No, -- the Clint- -- the ex-president never came to the island. TODD BLANCHE: And did you -- is that the only time that you met Hillary Clinton? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I went to the house in Chappaqua a few times. TODD BLANCHE: And why did you go to the house? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I was invited. TODD BLANCHE: Just to see President Clinton or Hillary Clinton or both or -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah, I mean, as a Page 260 friend, not for -- I don't -- there was no -- I don't remember any reason, either was somehow I communicated that was in coming, driving back past Chappaqua or if they were home and stop in. And it's -- I know it sounds a little flippant, but it could -- it could have even something as -- TODD BLANCHE: And do you know whether Mr. Epstein had -- knew or had any sort of visit dealings or -- associated with Hillary Clinton? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would say no. TODD BLANCHE: Did -- did you ever see them together? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. TODD BLANCHE: Did -- do you know whether Mr. Epstein ever did any business transactions with the Clintons? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I would -- well, I'm not sure I can. I'm not sure how to quite -- I don't know the answer to that strictly, because, I was -- I was part of the beginning process of the Clinton Global Initiative. And that was something that I helped with and that was me, and Epstein may have helped me help them. And in that context, he may well have involved MAGNA® 12 (Pages 257 to 260) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022927