DOJ-OGR-00022935.tif

oO TN OA PF WN EF Page 289 TODD BLANCHE: But what about in -- so -- yes, I agree, that’s one area. Like -- so women who were either not clothed or topless with just a bottom on. But beyond that, did you see as part of that him touching them? And again, I'm not talking about consent or not consent or age or -- you know, I'm saying like there's multiple, multiple, you know, dozens and dozens of women who have said that they were -- that they engaged in sexual contact. And I agree, there's a broad range of what that can -- how that can be defined, but defining it in the broadest of terms. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So him being physical with women? I did see that, but nothing that was not consensual. And to address the issue of the large number of women who today say that he was non-consensual coercive with them. I'm not sure. I -- in my mind I sort of have to characterize the two distinct areas. There's one where is the women who are not of age. Therefore, anything with them is immediately unconsensual. TODD BLANCHE: Correct, yeah. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: So let's start -- I want to define anyone who's underage versus anybody who's over age, because I do think that there's a Page 290 very significant differential between the two. TODD BLANCHE: So does the law. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. Okay. So -- TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't mean that. TODD BLANCHE: No, no. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm not trying to be smart. TODD BLANCHE: [agree with you. Yes, I agree with you. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. So I want to deal with the thing, which is really why we're here. I mean, not that I'm not going to deal with the other, but I just -- TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- want to make a distinction with underage situation, because there's nothing about that that's right. I never saw anything with anybody who was certainly to be categorical in my -- from my trial. Let's deal with that, because that's something that I can say in -- I never saw that with them at all. And I would say that as -- as described, anyway, in my trial did not happen as described. on TIMA OB WN TE NNNNNNRFPRPRPRPRPRRP EEE OB WHF OW MODNA OBWNHE OO oO TN OA PWN EE NNFPRPRPRPRPRPRP RPP RB FOU DTA UBRWNHE OO © Page 291 I'm not saying that Mr. Epstein did not do those things. I'm not casting those -- I'm not going to say -- I don't feel comfortable saying that today, given what I now know to be true. So I am not here to defend him. But what I can say is that I did not participate in that activity. And -- TODD BLANCHE: So let's divide this into two areas. Maybe there's more, but we'll start with two areas. One is there was testimony and there's certainly been depositions and public statements, that some of these young women had conversations with you about their age. So, for example, conversations about the fact that they were in high school or conversations about the fact that they wanted to go to college one day, which would necessarily mean -- well, not necessarily, but would be more likely to mean that they were in high school when they talked to you about that. And so, were there times -- were there women that you knew were underage? And I say that because that's different than whether they were sexually abused in any way by Mr. Epstein, just merely their age and going to give him a massage? Page 292 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No, I never knew that and I can categorically state that had any child said to me that they were 14, 15, 16, maybe not 17, because 17 in England, I mean, if someone had said they were 17, I don't -- but I've read so much that that did happen. I mean, I just -- I had no -- I would never have permitted such a thing, I would not -- I don't even know what I would have done. TODD BLANCHE: So some of the -- I think even someone who testified at trial, but certainly have publicly talked about, was as young as 14 when she was introduced to Mr. Epstein. In -- in your mind today, you don't -- you kind of reject that that happened, that you saw that, meaning you don't recall any obviously under 18 woman coming to give him a massage? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, I believe you're talking about Jane, and I'm -- TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: -- very happy to address that. I actually don't think that the testimony is correct. I don't believe -- TODD BLANCHE: Yeah, look, I don't -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. No, no, I'm MAGNA® 20 (Pages 289 to 292) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022935