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DAATNOAFWNHRF DMO WAIHD OF WN FE Page 301 think I'm fairly confident, and I can say that at least as characterized, it's just -- it's just false. It's just -- it didn't happen as said. Now, did it -- did it happen -- did he -- did he involve himself? I knew about Jane, because I saw her come to the house. But I saw her with her mother. I know that her allegations are that there were orgies, for instance. But the people that she suggests were in her orgies, didn't even work for Epstein until '98 or '99. Did he do orgies with those people? I don't know anybody who was there who said that they did. I certainly didn't see it. I can't say that that happened. Did she do it with someone else? I don't know. The stories really start -- the allegations really begin with. And I think that you have to shift his behavior, such as it was bar, there was one in California who made an allegation. There was a woman who said that she -- and she's -- I didn't know about. So I think I would call her the first person. I'd be aware of him using his position to -- TODD BLANCHE: But -- and sorry to Page 302 interrupt you. But I just want to -- I don't want -- I don't want to have you -- I don't think it's helpful for us -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. TODD BLANCHE: -- have you kind of address each allegation. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. TODD BLANCHE: I want you to clear your mind and just tell the truth about it. So I'm not saying you're not telling the truth. I'm saying just putting aside what other people have said, or what their lawyers have said, or what they testified to or, you know, the rumors in the press, push those aside, you were there. And so when you go back to that time period, '92, '93, '99, 2000, 2001, during that time period, what did you see when it comes to young women and massages? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: All right. Sorry. All right. So I saw him receive massages. He had regular masseuses in the '90s, people who were standard and who traveled with him, and I saw that. He was living in the Iranian house, and now that I look back, he had -- I didn't stay there, but I would go to manage the house. I would see Aryan oP WNF DWM DOA HDOB WN EH NNN DN DW + Owe WNrR OW A~ATIN OP WNF DH DAIHOBWNHE NM NM NHN ND t Oe WNrF OC Oo Page 303 women, models, or people that he would have come to the house. I -- I know that I thought that he was with Eva still at that time. That's what I believed. And then subsequently believed that even though she married him, I actually subsequently believed that the baby that she had was his. DAVID MARKUS: Can I interrupt for one second? TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. Of course. DAVID MARKUS: Can I just ask some basic top line questions? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. DAVID MARKUS: Were you ever in a massage room with him and a masseuse? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Who -- when was that? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Well, he would come in sometimes, and he would say, like, give her a massage here, or he would grab my -- you know, but not often. I mean, he did come in from time to time. DAVID MARKUS: Were you ever in a massage room with him with a masseuse that was naked or giving him any sexual favors? Page 304 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never saw that. DAVID MARKUS: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That I remember. DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Did you -- did you ever -- did any of the masseuses ever discuss with you giving -- that they gave sexual favors to Epstein? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. DAVID MARKUS: Okay. Did you ever see an underage girl go into a massage room with Mr. Epstein? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. DAVID MARKUS: If you had seen that, what would you have done? Would you have left? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I can't even conceive. I can't even conceive of -- I can't imagine what I would have done. DAVID MARKUS: All right. I'm sorry. TODD BLANCHE: No. That's okay. DAVID MARKUS: Okay. TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever observe Mr. Epstein masturbating during a massage? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. I mean, when I'd seen him on a massage table, I had seen him masturbate. I don't know if there was a masseuse MAGNA® °°" LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022938