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OBATNDOBRPWNF COW WOAIDHD OF WN FP present, but I've seen him on a massage -- TODD BLANCHE: Okay. Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Sorry, I just -- TODD BLANCHE: Did you ever see him masturbate with a masseuse -- you know, with a naked woman, either giving him a massage or reporting to give him a massage? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I don't remember seeing that. TODD BLANCHE: Did you give him massages by the way? I mean, there's a photo of you rubbing his feet, and I think, but -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I never -- I certainly have been in the massage room with him, and I have certainly rubbed his feet when he was -- we're talking, but I was not a masseuse and I didn't perform massage on him. TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- along -- during the -- over the years, did you pay the masseuses? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: It was typically not my job, but if there was nobody else, normally -- so in Palm Beach, the houseman would give the money. And in New York, he would do that, because I wouldn't be in New York when he -- I mean, I don't remember ever paying a masseuse in New York. Page 306 TODD BLANCHE: So it wasn't -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But maybe -- TODD BLANCHE: -- your -- it wasn't your job -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. TODD BLANCHE: -- on a regular math -- basis to pay the masseuse. So if there was a masseuse seven days a week, it wasn't expected that seven days a week you would be the one handing them money? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I -- mostly I would not. I'm not saying I never did it, because that wouldn't be true. But it was not my job to pay them. I mostly recall he would either pay them himself, he would have money or the houseman, and I think some of them would have probably received checks. TODD BLANCHE: And so just picking up on what Mr. Markus was just asking you, did you participate in sexual activity with him with a masseuse, like at the same time? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. TODD BLANCHE: And so the testi- -- I don't know if there's testimony, but the women who have said that that happened, categorically, that's not true? on TIMA OB WN TE NNNNNNRFPRPRPRPRPRRP EEE OB WHF OW MODNA OBWNHE OO onan OB WN TE NNNNNNFRPRPRPRPRPRP RPE BE OB WNHE OW OAA UO BWNHE Ow Page 307 GHISLAINE MAXWELL: That is categorically not true. TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- moving past the -- and moving into the 2000s -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I mean, I just want to say that I have been -- I mean, I remember there'd be times when he'd be getting a massage and I would be in the room, I could be on his feet, and somebody else could be on his feet, and we could be talking. So there is that. TODD BLANCHE: But that's not -- you're -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. TODD BLANCHE: -- not talking about something that's sexual, you're talking about literally just rubbing his feet? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yes. TODD BLANCHE: Okay. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: But I mean -- TODD BLANCHE: But that's not what I'm talking about, I'm saying -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Well, they could be -- the -- sometimes the women might be topless who were giving that. So you could say that was sexual in that context. TODD BLANCHE: No, I'm talking about the Page 308 repeated reports of certain sex acts happening with you present and even participating? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: No. TODD BLANCHE: Did you -- did -- in the 2000s time period, so moving a little more recently when you talked about it yesterday, about how your relationship with Mr. Epstein changed and was changing and you ultimately met somebody else. Did you observe any, you know, massages or young women giving him massages later on? So after 2000, 2001 time period? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I'm sure I did. TODD BLANCHE: And was there anything different about what you observed during that period and the '90s, as far as the frequency, his conduct towards them? GHISLAINE MAXWELL: I think the frequency increased. J think he went from one to two in that time period. And -- but I did not see -- I have no recollection of ever seeing a child entering the house and giving him a massage. I -- at that time, he had moved me out of the main house. I had moved into an office with John Alessi, the former butler, under the stairs. So I had an office where I would be that was not part of MAGNA® 24 (Pages 305 to 308) LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022939