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Pg a a a OBADOBWNF DW OAD OB WN FE Page 313 I think it -- because it was a self -- because so many people saw it of so many -- of such a high caliber down that never seemed to think it would -- well, if they thought it was strange probably, they never said it at the time. So it became sort of like it was his thing, right? He was always around with women. Now, you don't -- I understand that it's very unattractive, especially in light of everything that we know today. But at the time, the only way I can sort of try and describe it is through Sex and the City, the movie, the show on telly, where the -- this is -- that lifestyle is described on the TV show constantly. There are always these women around and men who like it. And a lot of the men that I know like women, and so maybe not as overtly as Epstein, but he was overt, not covert, except obviously in the context of the criminal behavior. So what we're discussing now, there's a difference between the criminal behavior and the non-criminal. But you don't like the lifestyle, I concur. Iagree. Especially now. And I -- I own my side of that fence that I was there and that I saw Page 314 his behavior with women and didn't challenge him or do something. But I don't -- I don't think back in the ‘00s or the 2000s, we've had a cultural shift. And the cultural shift, I think is a very important part of the analysis here. Not because I'm trying to justify this, because I'm not, and I'm not trying to, and I absolutely am not here to do the poor me program. So please, don't misunderstand this. However, in the 19- -- 2000s, when this behavior was going down, in the initial blush of the Palm Beach investigation, the women who brought the women who were underage 17, 16, I believe if I'm -- my memory serves, were actually targets of the investigation and could have been charged with prostitution and trafficking, I would -- if trafficking was even a law. So you're taking -- you're taking behavior. And I did introduce him to women, I did, but not underage women. I understand that there are allegations. I have read them about myself going to schools. I can categorically tell you that I have never, in my life, gone to a school to pick up a child. Well, not for this purpose. I mean, like my stepchildren, and all, but okay. Sorry, just -- on TIMA OB WN TE NNNNNNRFPRPRPRPRPRRP EEE OB WHF OW MODNA OBWNHE OO DAAINDOFWNHRF DWM WAT A OB WN HE Ke] Page 315 TODD BLANCHE: No, I understand. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Okay. Thank you. I just want to be clear that I'm not trying to be cute or anything. But -- and I did look for masseuses, I -- I did. I went to spas and if I met somebody who said she was a masseuse, I did not check their credentials. And of course, if she was attractive, I did introduce her, yes. If I met friends who were interested, he was constantly asking me for -- to meet new and interesting people. I did -- I did do that. At the time, I viewed it as -- well, first of all, part of my job, I think, or part of my responsibility, if you were, to introduce -- because it wasn't just women. If I met somebody who was interesting, like Murray Gell-Mann or who I thought he would like, I did that. So it's not exclusively, but he did. And I did do that. TODD BLANCHE: So -- but then -- so I want to layer on top of what you just said, what we talked about yesterday more, but a little bit today already, which is everybody that was around him besides you, like his friends. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Right. Page 316 TODD BLANCHE: So I accept the lifestyle. I've seen the photos, the fact that everybody is -- we're all going to go to the island for a couple of days, or we're flying on a private plane and there's beautiful women everywhere. Is there any -- I mean, do you, as you sit here today, think that the people around him didn't also -- weren't also of the same place where they were also getting massages where there was sex going on during them, or things like that? And I'm obviously asking this because that's what the -- GHISLAINE MAXWELL: Yeah. TODD BLANCHE: -- that's what everybody has said. And when you just described what it was like, the very next step from that is everybody's going to Vegas for the weekend, you know. And so -- and so you -- 1t seems kind of far-fetched to say that, yes, that was his lifestyle. But then when he's taking groups of folks to the island or groups of folks to New Mexico or whatever, that they're all, you know, going to church in the morning while he's getting a massage. GHISLAINE MAXWELL: [hear you. I was there, though. And -- TODD BLANCHE: Yeah. MAGNA® “°° LEGAL SERVICES DOJ-OGR- 00022941