EFTA00602439.pdf

648 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SEVENTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE NO.: CACE 15-000072 BRADLEY J. EDWARDS and PAUL G. CASSELL, Plaintiffs, vs. ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ, Defendant. VIDEOTAPE CONTINUED DEPOSITION OF ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ VOLUME 5 Pages 648 through 781 Wednesday, January 13, 2016 9:04 a.m. - 11:59 a.m. Tripp Scott 110 Southeast 6th Street Fort Lauderdale, Florida Stenographically Reported By: Kimberly Fontalvo, RPR, CLR Realtime Systems Administrator www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602439 649 651 1 APPEARANCES: 1 INDEX 2 2 3 On behalf of Plaintiffs: 3 SEARCY. DENNEY. SCAROLA Examination Page 4 BARNHART & SHIPLEY. P.A. 4 2139 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard s West Palm Beach. Florida 33402-3626 5 VOLUME 5 (Pages 648 - 781) BY: JACK SCAROLA. ESQ. 6 7 6 jsx esearcyhw.com 7 Certificate of Oath 778 a On behalf of Defendant: Certificate of Reporter 779 9 COLE. SCOTT & KISSANE. P.A. 8 Read and Sign Letter to Witness 780 10 Dadeland Centre II - Suite 1400 9150 South Dadeland Boulevard Miami. Herida 33156 9 Errata Sheet (forwarded upon execution) 781 11 BY: THOMAS EMERSON SCOTT. JR.. ESQ. 10 PLAINTIFF EXHIBITS thotnas.scou6ksklegal.com 11 12 BY: STEVEN SAFRA. ESQ. (Via phone) steven.safranieskkgalcom 12 No. Page 13 -and- 13 25 Transcript from Don Lemon Interview 689 14 SWEDER & ROSS. 112 14 15 Ill Oliver Street Boston. MA 02110 15 BY: KENNETH k SWEDER. ESQ. 16 16 kswederesweder-ross.com 17 17 18 -and- WILEY. REIN 18 17769 K Suet, NW 19 19 Washington. DC 20006 20 20 BY: RICHARD A. SIMPSON. ESQ. RSimpson6wilepein.com 21 21 22 22 23 23 24 24 25 25 650 652 1 APPEARANCES (Continued): 1 Thereupon. the proceedings continued at 9:04 a.m. 2 2 VIDEOGRAPHER: Are now on the video 3 On behalf of Jeffrey Epstein: 3 record. This is the 13th day of January. 2016. 4 DARREN K. INDYKE. PLLC 4 The time is 9:04 am. This is the videotaped 575 Lexington Ave.. 4th Fl. 5 New York, New York 5 deposition of Alan Dershowitz in the matter of BY: DARREN K. INDYKE, ESQ. (Via phone) 6 Bradley Edwards and Paul Cassell versus Alan 6 7 Dershowitz. 7 On behalf of 8 My name is Marcy Martinez_ I am the 8 BOLES. SCHILLER & FLEXNER, LLP 9 videographer representing Above & Beyond 401 E. Las Olas Blvd_ Ste. 1200 10 Reprographics. Will the attorneys please 9 Fat Lauderdale. Florida 33301 BY: SIGRID STONE MCCAWLEY, ESQ. 11 announce their appearances for the record. 10 smecawley@bsfilp.com 12 MR. EDWARDS: Sure. On behalf of the 11 13 plaintiff today Brad Edwards. Jack Scarola 12 ALSO PRESENT: 19 Brittany Henderson and Paul Cassell. 13 Edward I. P012U011. Special Master 15 MR. SIMPSON: On behalf of the defendant 14 Sean D. Reyes. Utah Attorney General Office 16 and the witness. Richard Simpson. and Thomas 15 Marcy Martinez. Videographer 16 17 Scott will be joining. He just walked in. 17 18 MS. McCAWLEY: On behalf of nonparty 18 19 Sigrid McCawley and my 19 20 colleague Meredith Schultz from Boles. Schiller 20 21 & Plexner. 21 22 22 MR. INDYKE: On behalf of Jeffrey Epstein. 23 23 Darren Indyke. 24 24 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Ed Ponuoli as 25 25 the special master. 2 (Pages 649 to 652) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602440 653 655 1 MR. SIMPSON: Is there anyone else on the 1 And I knew, of course, that I had never 2 phone? 2 met -- had no contact with I knew 3 MR. MAISEL: Yeah, this is Nicholas 3 that she was lying. I read her deposition. and as 9 Maisel. 9 an experienced lawyer with 50 years of experience, 5 THE COURT REPORTER: Would you raise your 5 it was absolutely clear to me that no lay person 6 right hand. please? 6 with her lack of education could have written that 7 Do you swear or affirm that the testimony 7 deposition. 8 you are about to give will be the truth, the 8 I sought the advice of friends and others 9 whole truth, and nothing but the truth? 9 with experience who confirmed the view that that 10 THE WITNESS: I do. 10 affidavit clearly had to have been written by 11 MR. SCAROLA: Nick would you announce the 11 lawyers and certainly drafted by lawyers: the level 12 capacity in which you're appearing, please. 12 of detail, the structure of the sentences, all of 13 MR. MAISEL: Special research assistant 13 which led me conclusively to the belief that the 14 for Alan Dershowitz, 14 lawyers had written this affidavit. 15 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you. 15 I suspected from the very beginning that 16 MR. EDWARDS: Are we ready? 16 this was part of an extortion plot in order to 17 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Go ahead. 17 obtain money. I later learned many. many. many 18 BY MR. EDWARDS: 18 facts. 19 Q. Mr. Dershowitx, in January of 2015. when 19 MR. EDWARDS: I object and move to strike 20 you made the statements that Paul Cassell unit Brad 20 as nonresponsive and that the question calls 21 Edwards participated in the fabricating of the 21 for information in his possession in January of 22 allegations that were made against you, what 22 2015. I would ask for a ruling on that. 23 information or evidence did you have in your 23 A. I'm providing that. but I'm giving the 24 possession at that time to support those statements? 29 context. 25 MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form as overly 25 SPECIAL MASTER P0ZZUOLI: Denied. Move 654 656 1 general. You may answer. 1 forward. 2 A. As soon as the allegations were made 2 A. Okay. I knew that there was a financial 3 against me. I received a series of phone calls and 3 motivation here. I also knew that Cassell and 4 people approached me at various events and they 4 Edwards had lied when the said they were 5 warned me about the reputation of Bradley Edwards. 5 representing in a pro bono basis. 6 They told me that he had, in their view. 6 I had been informed repeatedly that they 7 participated in a major fraud with a man named 7 were in it for the money and that they expected to 8 Rothstein. that he should be in jail for the 8 earn a lot of money from representing her and others 9 Rothstein events. 9 in this case and that they pretended to be pro bono 10 I received a phone call saying that he had 10 lawyers when they were, in fact. money-grubbing. 11 11 money-hungry lawyers who had earned a very fabricated evidence when he was a plos,utor and 12 that he had knowingly failed to investigate police 12 substantial amount of money already on these cases 13 fabrication of evidence in a case. Generally was 13 and were expecting to earn mom money. 19 warned about the terrible reputation that 14 Let me think of what other information I 15 Mr. Edwards had. 15 had. 16 I also received phone calls telling me 16 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: At the time of 17 that Mr. Cassell was a zealot, that he had used me 17 the question. 18 in class as a whipping — as a kind of an object of 18 A. At the time of my statements, right. 19 hate and painted me as a liberal supporter of the 19 It's just inconceivable to me that this 20 exclusionary rule and opponent of the death penalty. 20 uneducated woman could have come up with this story 21 and that he had no concern for the truth when it 21 on her own. 22 came to his zealotry on behalf of alleged victims. 22 I understood the motives of the lawyers. 23 The calls were just -- the people who told 23 and I was convinced, therefore, it was my opinion 29 me this were just -- there were so many of them that 24 based on my experience, in fact. that she could not 25 it was amazing to me. 25 have done this by herself and that she had to have 3 (Pages 653 to 656) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602441 657 659 1 worked in coordination with her lawyers. 1 no. no. no. Na Respond to the question that 2 Her lawyers were also at that point 2 was answered and go ahead because I haven't 3 claiming that the story should be believed because 3 heard any objection yet. 4 of who they were. Mr. Cassell. in my view. 4 MR. EDWARDS: I'm objecting to all of this 5 unethically signed his pleading with the University 5 as being nonresponsive to the question. 6 of Utah imprimatur. suggesting that he was a State 6 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Is there 7 actor. suggesting that he acted an behalf of his 7 anything else that you would like to add to the 8 university, something I would never do and I've 8 answer? 9 stopped clients from doing. When I represent 9 THE WITNESS: Yes. 10 people. I represent them on my own behalf. not on 10 A. When the newspapers called me. they all 11 behalf of any university. 11 asked me the following question -- 12 The very fact that the Attorney General of 12 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Was this in 13 Utah was here yesterday indicates that he may very 13 January? 14 well be a State actor and subject to the rules of 14 A. This was in January. 15 State action rather than individual action. 15 BY MR. EDWARDS: 16 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That portion I 16 Q. The question on the table Is — 17 will strike. That sentence. 17 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on one 18 A. Sony. 18 second. 19 BY MR. EDWARDS: 19 A. I'm going to tell you. 20 Q. Okay. 20 MR. EDWARDS: What information that 21 A. Tm not finished. 21 Mr. Dershowitz had in January 4.2015. when he 22 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Is there any 22 made the statement that Paul Cassell and Brad 23 other information that you haven't touched 23 Edwards fabricated the allegations against him. 24 on — 24 MR. SIMPSON: The question was about in 25 THE WITNESS: I'm (tying to— 25 January of 2015. 658 660 1 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: -- as of. what. 1 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That's what it 2 January? 2 was. That was the original question. which is 3 MR. EDWARDS: January of 2015. 3 why he was afforded a tremendous amount of 4 THE WITNESS: Oh. yes. 4 latitude. 5 MR. SCAROLA: January 4. 5 MR. EDWARDS: Understood. 6 MR. EDWARDS: January 4.2015. 6 A. And I got continuing information all 7 A. Okay. that's the question. But. of 7 through January and amended my statements as 8 course. I made a sales of statements that continued 8 consistent with the information that I ga. 9 beyond January 4. and they always took into account 9 The newspapers called me. They all said 10 new developments and new information that I had. 10 to me. why would anybody make a false allegation if 11 I was also aware that Mr. Cassell was 11 he's a former Federal judge. if he's a professor. if 12 promoting himself as a former federal judge and 12 he's a distinguished trial lawyer? 13 using his status and imprimatur in a false effort to 13 Clearly the -- on the 4th of December. 14 try to add credibility to the story. 14 talking about that day. that's the day on which 15 And I did not make -- this is very 15 Mr. Cassell wrote to ABC — 16 important to this. I did not make a single call to 16 BY MR. EDWARDS: 17 a single newspaper or single television station. to 17 Q. January. 18 my knowledge. or a single newspaper. I was 18 A. January 4. 2015. that's the date on which 19 constantly responding. 19 Mr. Cassell wrote to ABC News asking them to 20 MR. SCAROLA: That's not responsive. 20 publicize his client's story and to — and again 21 A. Excuse me. In the last deposition -- 21 making it clear to ABC who he was and what he -- and 22 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: No. no. 22 who he had been and what offices he had held. 23 A. -- there was an interruption by 23 And so it was clear to me at that point. 24 Mr. Scarola that I want to put on the record. 24 and through January it became clearer and clearer 25 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: No. no. no. no. 25 that she could not have done this on her own, that 4 (Pages 657 to 660) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602442 661 663 1 she had to have sat with her lawyers and concocted 1 MR. EDWARDS: Affidavit. 2 this story. added the kind of detail to the story 2 A. — if I hadn't seen it at that point. I 3 that would make a lie seem plausible and credible. 3 don't remember the exact day when her affidavit came 4 And I think that any reasonable lawyer reading that 4 in. I referred obviously to the pleadings. That 5 affidavit would have come to exactly the same 5 was the allegation, the allegation in the pleadings. 6 conclusion that I came to. 6 So if I said that you and Cassell sat and 7 SPECIAL MASTER P0ZZUOL1: Okay. 7 helped her make it up. it was based on -- at that 8 BY MR. EDWARDS: B point in time, based on you and her. primarily you 9 Q. Mr. Dershowitz, when you first made the 9 and Cassell. because she didn't submit -- it wasn't 10 statement on January 4..2015 that Mr. Cassell and 10 an affidavit at that point. 11 Brad Edwards had participated in the fabrication of 11 It was your words. you. that were accusing 12 these allegations. did you have before you any 12 me of these heinous crimes without any basis. So I 13 affidavit or, as you have repeatedly called it, 13 surely had a basis on January 4th of attributing it 14 deposition of 14 to you because it was your signature on the — 15 MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. It's 15 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hold on a 16 referring to a specific statement that has not 16 second. So I understand. the question is what 17 been identified for the witness. 17 did you have on January 4th — 18 A. Affidavit of ' What I had 18 MR. EDWARDS: -- 2015 to support that 19 was the lawyers statements that were included in 19 statement. 20 the Complaint, which they then sought to publicize 20 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Just answer that 21 all around the world and got more than a thousand 21 question first and then you can explain. but — 22 newspapers to cover the story. every television 22 A. With due respect. Your Honor. I think the 23 station in the world. every radio station virtually 23 question was, did you have the affidavit in front of 24 in the world. based on what they themselves had 24 you. 25 written. actually gives me even a greater basis. 25 662 1 because it wasn't at that point based on her 1 BY MR. EDWARD$: 2 affidavit, it was based on what the lawyers had 2 Q. Right. Okay. Did you have the affidavit 3 said. 3 or deposition of on that day? 4 MR. EDWARDS: I object. Can I have the 4 A. To my recollection. I did not. 1 had only 5 question read back. I'm lost as to what the 5 your characterization of the accusation which you 6 question is anymore. 6 were making against me. 7 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Ask — reread 7 Q. And in your experience as an attorney, 8 the question. 8 isn't it common knowledge that attorneys drafting 9 COURT REPORTER: 'Mr. Dershowitz. when you 9 complaints or pleadings take the word of the client 10 first made the statement on January 4. 2015 10 to form the basis of that Complaint or pleading? 11 that Mr. Cassell and Brad Edwards had 11 A. No. it's not common knowledge. It's 12 participated in the fabrication of these 12 common knowledge that unethical lawyers of the kind 13 allegations. did you have before you any 13 that your reputation told me you were help the 14 affidavit or. as you have repeatedly called it. 14 clients — 15 deposition of r 15 MR. EDWARDS: I object. Move to strike as 16 BY MR. EDWARDS: 16 nonresponsive. 17 Q. Did you? 17 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That. I am going 18 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: So that's the 18 to strike. Try -- try to answer the question. 19 question. Answer that question only. 19 A. But I think the generic answer is ethical 20 MR. SCAROLA: Move to strike everything 20 lawyers — let me put it this way. ethical lawyers 21 else he's said. 21 should not elaborate on what a client tells them in 22 A. On January 4th. to my memory. I did not 22 an affidavit. 23 refer to a deposition or to whatever other word you 23 In my experience. there's a continuum. 24 used -- what was the word? 24 Many. many lawyers. when they see a statement by a 25 MR. SIMPSON: Affidavit. 25 client they'll say. no. no. no. no. could you 5 (Pages 661 to 664) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602443 665 667 1 please elaborate on that. You say you had sex with 1 MR. INDYKE: Instruct Alan not to answer 2 him. Was it one time? Was it two times? Could it 2 to the extent it would disclose communications 3 have been six times? Could it have been on the 3 of who made those — 4 airplane? Could it have been -- et cetera. 4 SPECIAL MASTER PO'CLUOLI: Objection noted. 5 So I think it's a continuum of the way S You can answer it. 6 lawyers work with clients. The most ethical lawyers 6 A. What framework are you giving me in terms 7 don't change what a client says. They word for word 7 of time? 8 repeat what the client says. 8 SPECIAL MASTER PO'CLUOLI: In January. 9 The most unethical lawyers will put all of 9 BY MR. EDWARDS: 10 their own thoughts. words. ideas if it strengthens 10 Q. You told me that before you made these 11 their position and strengthens their case. 11 statements. one of the things that you had in your 12 From what I had been -- from the 12 possesskm was a series of phone calls. "a bunch of 13 information I knew at that time. I put you on the 13 people called me" — 14 extreme unethical end of the continuum. 14 A. That is right. That's true. 15 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That wasn't the 15 Q. -- "and told me Brad Edwards participated 16 question. so I will strike the last sentence. 16 in major fraud with Rothstein." That's the first 17 We need to get focused on answering the 17 question I want answered. What are the names of 18 question. so please try to do that. 18 those people? 19 A. Okay. I will do that. 19 A. A number of them who called me were ones 20 BY MR. EDWARDS: 20 who volunteered — 21 Q. When you first made the statements that 21 MR. SCAROLA: That's not a response to the 22 Paul Cassell and Brad Edwards fabricated the 22 question. 23 allegations — 23 BY MR. EDWARDS: 24 A. Would you read me the statement that you 24 Q. What are the names? 25 say I made on January 4th so I can understand what 25 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Stop. stop. 666 668 1 rem saying? 1 please. please. please. 2 Q. Do you deny making the statement that Brad 2 A. I'm invoicing the privilege, if you would 3 Edwards and Paul Cassell fabricated the allegations 3 allow me. please. A number of those who called me 4 against you? 4 called me in tandem to volunteer to be my lawyer. 5 A. I remember making a series of statements 5 I'll give you an example. 6 over time. I do not remember what I said on 6 SPECIAL MASTER PUELUOLI: No. no. hang on. 7 January 4th. In order to ask me what I had at the 7 A. I can't name this person because he called 8 time I made the statement. I need to know with 8 to give me legal advice. and I — he gave me that 9 precision the exact statement you are referring to 9 information as pan of his legal advice. 10 and the exact date. I think that's a fair request. 10 BY MR. EDWARDS: 11 Q. We'll get that for you. It would be 11 Q. I'm not asking if one of the lawyers who 12 easier had you made less statements, but we'll sift 12 represented you and you have an attorney-client 13 through them. 13 privilege with has shared with you some information 14 A. If would be easier if you had called -- 14 that they believe to he the case. 15 MR. SIMPSON: There's no question. Object 15 I'm asking if you are using as support for 16 to the sidebar comments. 16 your statement that certain people told you and you 17 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yes, let's -- 17 relied upon this -- and the particular "this" at 18 BY MR. EDWARDS: 18 this point is that Brad Edward participated in a 19 Q. What are the names -- please list for me 19 major fraud with Scott Rothstein -- I want to know 20 all of the names of the people who told you that -- 20 the names of those people that you are relying upon 21 in quotes -- Brad Edwards was -- participated in a 21 to test veracity of that statement, please. Names 22 major fraud with Rothstein. Names of people. 22 of people. 23 MR. INDYKE: Objection based upon 23 A. One of the names was of a person who I was 24 attorney-client, work product. common interest. 24 seeking legal representation from. and it was pan 25 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Well, okay. 25 of my conversation with him regarding legal 6 (Pages 665 to 668) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602444 669 1 representation. 1 MR. INDYKE: Sane objection. same 2 MR. SCAROLA: That's not a name. 2 instruction. 3 MR. EDWARDS: I'm sorry. I object and I 3 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: He's — 4 ask — 4 MR. EDWARDS: Calls for a yes or no. 5 A. If I give you the name — S SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: He's only asked 6 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I do think you 6 if you aware that the case was dismissed at 7 have to give the name. 7 that time. 8 A. Okay. The name of that person would be 8 A. I don't think I was. But a case being 9 David Markus. 9 dismissed does not mean the allegation isn't true. 10 BY MR. EDWARDS: 10 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: 1 understand. 11 Q. Okay. 11 but -- 12 A. And he told me to check the docket -- 12 BY MR. EDWARDS: 13 MR. SIMPSON: Just the question. 13 Q. Okay. In addition to David Markus, can 14 BY MR. EDWARDS: 14 you please complete this list of people that you 15 Q. When did David Markus call you to tell you 15 testified called you to tell you specifically that 16 that he knew or believed that Brad Edwards 16 Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 17 participated in a major fraud with Rothstein? 17 Rothstein? 18 A. Within days. Within probably a day or 18 A. So, I spoke several times during that 19 two. 19 period of time at various events. And people • - 20 Q. Did he tell you what it was that formed 20 lawyers came over to me and told me -- 21 the basis for that statement that he made to you 21 Q. I'm not asking where. Who? What are the 22 that you so relied upon? 22 names? 23 A. I don't recall. 23 A. I can tell you one of them -- 24 Q. Was it more than the fact that your 24 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: He's trying to 25 client, Jeffrey Epstein. had filed a lawsuit making 25 be -- I would allow him to answer it. He's 670 672 1 those allegations? 1 trying to be responsive to the question. 2 A. I don't think he was aware that Jeffrey 2 Please proceed. 3 Epstein had nude an allegation of that kind. 3 A. One of them was a Conner president or 4 Q. At the time when David Markus called you 4 chairman or at least member of the Florida Bar 5 to tell you that Brad Edwards participated in a 5 committee who warned me about you. 6 major fraud with Rothstein did you already — 6 BY MR. EDWARDS: 7 A. That's not — 7 Q. Does he have a name? 9 Q. -- have or know that Scott Rothstein had 8 A. I dont remember his name. I don't 9 testified under oath about that specific subject 9 remember his name. no. Of course he has a name, but 10 matter? 10 I don't remember his name. 11. A. Well. I cant imagine that mite relying 11 Another was — I mean — just hard to 12 on Scott Rothstein's credibility. 12 pinpoint names. but it was something that was 13 Q. I'm asking, did you know? 13 clearly in my mind that so many people were telling 14 MR. SIMPSON: Just answer the question. 14 me -- telling me to look into the case of Rothstein. 15 BY MR. EDWARDS: 15 telling me that you were his protege. 16 Q. Yes or no? 16 Q. Okay. Is it true, then, that you have the 11 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOU: Did you know? 17 name of one person who you can identify told you 18 A. I did not know. 18 that Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 19 BY MR. EDWARDS: 19 Rothstein? 20 Q. Did you know at that point in time that 20 A. I was also aware, of course. of the 21 the Complaint that was tiled by your client. Jeffrey 21 Complaint that had been filed against you. And that 22 Epstein. against Brad Edwards. making those exact 22 was one — I mean, I cant comment on that because n allegations, had been dismissed at the stage -- at 23 of lawyer-client privilege. 24 the point in time when David Markus was making these 24 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Listen to the 25 statements to you that you so relied upon? 25 question, Professor. Go ahead. 7 (Pages 669 to 672) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602445 673 675 1 BY MR. EDWARDS: 1 MR. SIMPSON: He did not testify that 2 Q. Is it now your testimony that you can only 2 he — we went through long questions and 3 provide me with one name of one human being that 3 answers in response to Mr. Edwards' questions. 4 called you and told you Brad Edwards participated in 4 He did not say he was relying on what his 5 a major fraud with Rothstein? 5 lawyers told him in this case. 6 A. 1 will try to think of others. 6 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I think that 7 Probably -- I may have some notes of others. I will 7 there is — let me say this: I think the 8 call around and find out whether my memory is 8 question was from Mr. Edwards whether he relied 9 correct or not. 9 on statements from his lawyers. I do think 10 MR. SIMPSON: Professor -- 10 that you have to answer that question. 11 A. But I don't want to mention names without 11 A. I would say that the statements from my 12 being sure. 12 lawyers played a small role. The larger role -- 13 MR. SIMPSON: Just do you recall, as you 13 BY MR. EDWARDS: 14 sit here, the names? 14 Q. I want to know about that small role. 15 A. And right now. I don't recall names. other 15 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on one 16 than a general discussion with my lawyers. And in 16 second. So now proceed. 17 the general discussion with my lawyers -- and I 17 BY MR. EDWARDS: 18 don't want to get into it -- 18 Q. Sure. I would like to know whose 19 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Then don't do 19 statements it was that played a small role in your 20 it. 20 belief that Brad Edwards fabricated cases based on 21 BY MR. EDWARDS: 21 the statements that they made to you that 22 Q. Are you relying upon the statements from 22 Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 23 your lawyers to support this allegation that the 23 Rothstein. What arc the name of those individuals? 24 basis of your statement that Brad Edwards 24 A. It's a complicated question here. So 25 participated in the fabrication of the allegations 25 there are three issues that I understand. One, what 674 676 1 against you was a list of people told you 1 was the basis for my belief that you had fabricated 2 Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 2 along with Mr. Cassell -- 3 Rothstein: and, if so. I want to know the names of 3 Q. No, I'm asking for names of human beings. 4 those lawyers that you are using to support that 4 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: No. let me stop S allegation? 5 you. My understanding of your testimony was 6 SIR. SIMPSON: Well, we have asserted 6 that whatever you received — whatever 7 privilege as to communications with those who 7 information you received from your laws 8 represented you. Please dont disclose that. 8 played a small role. That's what you testified 9 MR. SCAROLA: Respectfully — pardon me — 9 to. 10 the witness is the possessor of that privilege. 10 THE WITNESS: That's right. 11 He cannot make a statement disclosing the 11 SPECIAL MASTER PUELUOLI: Correctly. 12 content of the communications that he is 12 Mr. Edwards then followed up on that question 13 relying on and then he himself assert a 13 and said. let's go into that small role. 14 privilege to refuse to provide further 14 THE WITNESS: Okay. 15 information with regard to the statement that 15 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: So row... 16 he has made. We would request a ruling on the 16 BY MR. EI)WARI)S: 17 record as to whether there has already been a 17 Q. What arc the names of those people that 18 waiver. 18 gave you this information that played a small role 19 A. What I said, of course. was that— 19 in -- 20 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Excuse me. Hang 20 A. In what? 21 on a second. 21 Q. -- in your belief that Brad Edwards had 22 MR. SCAROLA: %Vete requesting a oiling on 22 participated in a major fraud with Rothstein which 23 the record as to whether there has been a 23 somehow furthered your belief that Brad Edwards and 24 waiver as a consequence of what has already 24 Paul Cassell fabricated the allegations against you? 25 been stated. 25 So I'm asking for names of the people. 8 (Pages 673 to 676) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602446 677 679 1 A. So my best recollection, and its now over 1 came over to me and told me -- he may have given me 2 a year. is that that was a subject of conversation 2 a card. which I conceivably may have at home. told 3 with David Markus. It was also the subject of 3 me that he was a former official of the Florida Bar 4 conversation with — 4 and was outraged at what had happened and told rte to 5 MS. McCAWLEY: Fm sorry. I didn't hear 5 please look into your background and then told me 6 that. If he's talking about conversations -- 6 about your background. 7 MR. EDWARDS: lie said Davis Markus. 7 Q. Dade Markus, Is he a former student f 8 MS. McCAWLEY: Fm sorry. I couldn't 8 yours? 9 hear. 9 A. Yes, yes. 10 A. Another lawyer -- other people sent me 10 Q. Did he have anything to do with the 11 newspaper clippings. 11 investigation into the -- Scott Rothstein or any of 12 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: No. no. no. 12 that? 13 A. Lawyer. Okay. The other lawyer who told 13 A. I don't know. 14 me about that was a lawyer named David Efron. 14 Q. David Efron. did he have any inside 15 MR. SCAROLA: First of all. make sure the 15 personal information into who was or who was not 16 list is complete. and then you want to know 16 culpable in any aspect of the fraud with Scott 17 everyone. 17 Rothstein? 18 BY MR. EDWARDS: 18 A. I don't know. 19 Q. Is that It? David Markus, David Efron? 19 MR. SCAROLA: You want to know exactly 20 A. Those are the two I remember offhand. 20 what they said. 21 Plus. as I said. when I spoke -- I spoke 21 BY MR. EDWARDS: 22 at several events in January — 22 Q. Before we go to the next statement that 23 Q. Right now -- 23 apparently formed your basis for believing that 24 A. — and lawyers came -- people -- 24 Brad Edwards and Paul Cassell fabricated the 25 lawyers — 25 allegations against you. can you tell me exactly 678 680 1 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let me stop you. 1 word for word as you remember it what David Markus 2 BY MR. EDWARDS: 2 and then what David Efron told you — 3 Q. Let me get to the next question. 3 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let's start with 4 A. Yes. 4 the first one. 5 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let me ask the 5 BY MR. EDWARDS: 6 witness, the question is limited to — 6 Q. -- what David Markus told you about the 7 MR. EDWARDS: Yes, the lawyers who played 7 participation of Brad Edwards in a fraud with 8 a small role. 8 Rothstein? 9 SPECIAL MAMMA POZZUOLI: The small role 9 MR. SINIPSON: We assert privilege to the 10 around the lawyers, and I think the followup 10 extent that it's someone who he was getting 11 question was, you've mentioned a second lawyer. 11 legal advice from. 12 is there anybody else on that list? 12 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'm going to 13 BY MR. EDWARDS: 13 allow the question. You can answer over 14 Q. Yes. 14 objection. 15 A. Two lawyers. yes. The lawyers who came is A. Atli can tell you is what the total 16 over to me at the events that I spoke at. 16 information I had at that point. I can't now, as I 17 Q. 14'hat are their names? 17 sit here, separate out what Markus said, what Efron 18 A. 1 don't know. 18 said. what the lawyers who I met at the events said. 19 Q. How do you know that they're lawyers? 19 I can give you a totality of what the conclusion was 20 A. Because it was a lawyers' event. And they 20 that was reached. Each of themcontributed 21 were trial lawyers. This was all trial lawyers at 21 something. 22 the event. Florida trial lawyers. 22 BY MR. EDWARDS: 23 Q. You don't have the names of any of them: 23 Q. Where were you when you received this 24 is that right? 24 communication from David Markus about his 25 A. I can describe one of them as somebody who 25 understanding or belief that Brad Edwards 9 (Pages 677 to 680) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602447 681 683 1 participated in a major fraud with Rothstein? 1 the generalities. but I don't remember the 2 A. In my apanntent. I suspect. 2 particulars of that. I would be happy to try to 3 Q. Do you remember 11th? 3 refresh my recollection. 4 A. 1 remember being in my apartment when the 4 MR_ SCAROLA: Were going to take a short 9 story broke and getting call after call after call 5 break. 6 from lawyers. 6 VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The 7 Q. Was this a telephone call with David 7 time is 9:38 a.m. 8 Markus — 8 (Recess was held from 9:38 a.m. until 9:45 am.) 9 A. Probably. 9 VIDEOGRAPHER: Going back on the record. 10 Q. — or an in-person meeting? 10 The time is 9:45 a.m. 11 A. It was -- well, I had both. I had both 11 BY MR. EDWARDS: 12 with him. I had a telephone call and then we had a 12 Q. Did David Markus say Brad Edwards 13 meeting. 13 participated in a major fraud with Rothstein? 14 Q. And in this, did he describe to you what 14 MR. SCOTT: Objection. work product and 15 support he had for this statement that he was making 15 privileged. 16 to you regarding the involvement of Brad Edwards in 16 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'll overrule 17 a major fraud with Rothstein? 17 the objection. 18 MR. SCOTT: Objection. work product on 18 MR. SCOTT: I have a question. Are we 19 this whole line of questioning. He has the 19 taking the position that he has to answer the 20 name. If we're going to go beyond this, we 20 question now and pending an appeal to the 21 need a judicial ruling from the judge and you. 21 judge? Is that what were doing? 22 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOL1: Well. I'm going 22 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Or -- I will 23 to allow the witness to answer it at this point 23 reserve your right -- 24 and overrule the objection without prejudice. 24 MR_ SCOTT: Because you reserved on all 25 A. What is the question again? 25 their stuff yesterday. 682 684 1 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Well, go back to 1 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I will reserve 2 the question. 2 on that. but I want him to answer the question 3 COURT REPORTER: 'And in this, did he 3 at this point I believe that at this point. 4 describe to you what support he had for this 4 given the inquiry and given the witness's 5 statement that he was making to you regarding 5 answers previously, that they've opened the 6 the involvement of Brad Edwards in a major 6 door, at least to this extent. But I will 7 fraud with Rothstein?" 7 reserve, but I want him to answer. 8 A. I'm sum he told me some information 8 A. I will. I do not recall precisely what 9 involving his state of knowledge. but I can't 9 David Markus or David Efron said. I do recall that 10 separate out now what different people told me. All 10 they — to the best of my recollection, that they 11 I remember is the totality of the conclusion that I 11 both contributed to my general sense of what your 12 reached based on what they told me. 12 reputation was. 13 BY MR. EDWARDS: 13 BY MR. EDWARDS: 14 Q. What specifically did he tell you, if you 14 Q. I want to only slick with David Markus and 15 remember? 15 then we'll move on to David Efron. 16 MR. SCOTT: Same objection standing. I 16 A. Okay. 17 just wanted to make sure we have a standing 17 Q. All right. Did David Markus say anything 18 objection. 18 along the lines of, close to, Brad Edwards 19 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'll give you a 19 participated in a major fraud with Rothstein? 20 standing objection. I understand that piece. 20 MR. SCOTT: Same objection. 21 If you don't remember, you don't remember or if 21 A. My best recollection is that he said 22 you can't describe it. rather than going 22 something along those lines. He certainly said 23 through again the generalities. so try to 23 something that led me to that conclusion. 24 answer his specific question. 24 BY MR. EDWARDS: 25 A. Sure. Okay. The answer is I do remember 25 Q. Did he tell you to look into a court file 10 (Pages 681 to 684) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602448 685 687 1 or did he tell you Brad Edwards participated in a 1 assistance and to tell me how outrageous he thought 2 major fraud with Rothstein? 2 this was. And in the count of the conversation. he 3 MR. SIMPSON: We have a continuing 3 mentioned to me that I should be very careful about 4 objection on this, and also object to the form 4 you. that you had this reputation. and then he told 5 of that one. 5 me some things about your reputation that helped 6 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yeah, well, the 6 form my general impression about who you were and 7 form I'm not going to rule on. but the form is 7 what you would do. 8 awkward, at best. 8 Q. With respect to the reputation of 9 MR. SIMPSON: We just want in the record 9 Brad Edwards. did he tell you anything beyond 10 we have a continuing objection. 10 describing what he understood to he as facts related 11 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yes. 11 to the Scott Rothstein fraud? 12 BY MR. EDWARDS: 12 A. I think he -- others also told me that -- 13 Q. I've heard two statements. One is that 13 Q. I'm only talking about David Markus. 19 David Markus said to look into a court file. And 14 A. Well. I can't separate out completely what 15 the other I understood you to say is. David Markus 15 David Markus told me and what others told me. I 16 told me Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud 16 for mod the holistic impression based on what a large 17 with Rothstein. which is what gave the support for 17 number of people told me. That's the best I can do. 18 the statement that I ultimately made about 18 Q. When was your first communication with 19 Brad Edwards participating in the fabrication of 19 David Markus? 20 these allegations. 20 A. Oh. probably the day of the allegation or 21 So I'm trying to understand, did David 21 maybe the day after. But very, very soon 22 Markus tell you that Brad Edwards pa paled in a 22 thereafter. 23 major fraud with Rothstein? 23 Q. Do you have journal entries indicating the 29 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: You have a 24 telephone call that you had with David Markus? 25 continuing objection. but you can answer. 25 A. I don't journals entries of that kind. no. 686 688 1 A. To the best of my recollection, it's more 1 Q. Do you have phone records that would serve 2 than a year ago now, he told me facts that led me to 2 as evidence of the telephone call between yourself 3 conclude that you had participated in a major fraud. 3 and David Markus? 4 He told me. for example. that what 4 A. I suspect -- he called me. I remember that 5 Brad Edwards — that what Rothstein was selling were 5 for sure. He called me. 6 ft Edwards cases made up by people who didn't 6 Q. Do you have telephone records that support 7 exist. 7 his can to you? 8 He told me --I think it was he who told 8 A. I don't know if the telephone records show 9 me. but I can't be sure. that you were a protege. 9 who called you. If they do. probably we do. 10 that you had offices that were very close to each 10 Q. On the days that you claim that you met 11 other, that the fraud was very similar to what was 11 with David Markus, do you have journal citric. or 12 being alleged against me. That's. again. my best 12 any other diary notation that would -- that .1 mild 13 recollection of a conversation that occurred over a 13 serve as evidence of such a meeting? 14 year ago. 14 A. Ill check. I remember where we net. I 15 BY MR. EDWARDS: 15 don't remember exactly when. And if I paid for it, 16 Q. Did he tell you where he gathered that 16 I may have paid for it by credit card. I'll check. 17 information that you just described to us? 17 Ill be happy to do that. 18 A. He did not. I think he — no, he did not 18 Q. Did you meet with David Markus before or 19 tell me precisely where he got it from, no. 19 after appearing on the Don Lemon show on January 5. 20 Q. Did he share with you his own conclusion 20 2015? 21 that Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 21 A. I think 1 met with him before. I think I 22 Rothstein? 22 met with him before. I certainly communicated with 23 A. I don't recall that. That's not the 23 him before. 24 nature of the way a conversation happens. I wasn't 24 Q. Was it before your appearance on the Don 25 cross examining him. He was calling me to offer his 25 Lemon show when David Markus provided you with 11 (Pages 685 to 688) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602449 689 691 1 information that led you to conclude that 7 now to strike. 2 Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 2 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on. Motion 3 Rothstein? 3 to strike is granted. But here's the issue. 4 A. I never said that publicly. of course. on 4 Let him identify the document first and lay the 5 Lemon or any of the other shows. So. you're asking 5 predicate down and then go back into the 6 me a compound question. Was it before I came to 6 document. I don't want to tell you how to do 7 that conclusion that then contributed to my belief 7 the deposition. but it makes it cleaner. 8 that you had worked -- that you had created false 8 So. Brad. please have him identify the 9 testimony? It did 9 document first and see what he knows about the 10 MR. EDWARDS: What number exhibit are we 10 document and then now forward. 11 up to? 11 MR. SIMPSON: I think it's the portion of 12 COURT REPORTER: Twenty-five. 12 it you're asking about. that's what wete 13 MR. EDWARDS: Twenty-five, okay. I'll go 13 trying to identify. 14 ahead and mark this transcript from the Don 14 BY MR. EDWARDS: 15 Lemon interview as 25. 15 Q. Sure. Well, the first question has 16 (Thereupon. marked as Plaintiff 16 nothing do with the document. It is. did you appear 17 Exhibit 25.) 17 on the Don Lemon show January 5.2015? 18 BY MR. EDWARDS: 18 SPECIAL MASTER POTLUOIJ: That's an easy 19 Q. I'm going to show you the interview and 19 question. 20 particularly the bracketed paragraph. 20 A. Yes, yes. 21 A. Sure. 21 BY MR. EDWARDS: 22 Q. Do you see the section that we bracketed 22 Q. Okay. In that interview -- can you 23 there? 23 identify the transcript that you're holding in your 24 A. Yeah. Yeah, let me just -- 24 hand as a transcript of that interview? 25 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: fin going to 25 A. It seems like it is. yes. 690 692 7 look over your shoulder. 1 Q. Okay. And does it seem to accurately have 2 THE WITNESS: Sure. 2 transcribed, to the best of your memory, that 3 BY MR. EDWARDS: 3 interview that you had with Don Lemon? 4 Q. Is that a statement that you made on 4 MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. 5 January 5, 2015? 5 A. Yes. 6 A. Let me read into the record what I said. 6 BY MR. EDWARDS: 7 Q. I'm asking right now is that a statement 7 Q. Can you read for us the portions that are 8 that you made? 8 bracketed? 9 SPECIAL MASTER POZ7_UOLI: Which statement? 9 A. No. because they're out of context. I 10 BY MR. EDWARDS: 10 refuse to do that. That's what happened yesterday. 11 Q. The statement that is bracketed. 11 and you totally read it out of context. I will read 12 MR. SlhIPSON: Can fajta? The record 12 it for you in context. 13 doesn't reflect what that is. SO the answer 13 I will read the question that was asked me 14 will be misleading. You can't ask about a 14 and I will read the entire answer, but I won't read 15 statement that no one knows what it is. 15 your selected excerpts which mislead everybody in 16 BY MR. EDWARDS: 16 this transcript. No. I won't do that. 17 Q. You can read the statement into the 17 Q. Okay. 18 record, but right now I'm just asking is that -- is 18 A. Because that would be a lie, and I'm under 19 that an accurate transcript of your statement that 19 oath. So I'll be happy to read the entire thing. 20 you're holding in your hand? 20 MR. SCOTT: Seems like a fair request. 21 MR. SIMPSON: Object to the thrm. 21 MR_ EDWARDS: If we're going to read 22 A. let me respond to that. Yesterday you 22 entire transcripts. not just the defamatory 23 read transcripts. and it turned out you left out 23 remarks. we're going to be here all clay. 24 absolutely critical exculpatory — 24 A. We have time. The truth takes time and in 25 MR. EDWARDS: Objection. nonresponsive. 25 full context. 12 (Pages 689 to 692) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602450 693 695 1 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Okay. 1 A. I think he called me the day of the event. 2 MR. SIMPSON: Wait for a question. please. 2 the day the story was in the newspapers. 3 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I believe its 3 Q. Would you have calendar entries or 4 fair for the question starting -- the question 4 telephone records to support the date of that call? 5 that starts right above the bracketed where 5 A. I don't know about telephone records. I 6 Mr. Lemon asks. "So why arc you being targeted! 6 don't have a calendar entry. 7 As you mentioned the lawyers. why would someone 7 Q. Did you meet with David Efron in person or 8 target you. Alan Dershowitz. with these very 8 only by telephone? 9 serious allegations?" And then from there 9 A. I did. I met with hint in person. 10 down, you don't need to read the whole thing. 10 Q. And what did — or did David Efron say 11 but I think you'll get your point across that 11 Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud with 12 way. 12 Scott Rothstein? 13 MR. EDWARDS: Okay. 13 A. Again. I can only say that he gave rte 14 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That standpoint 14 facts and statements that led me to that conclusion. 15 would provide some level of context. 15 which I stated in the interview. namely that 16 A. "Don Lemon: So. why are you being 16 Rothstein had sold Epstein cases. and that Edwards 17 targeted? As you mentioned the lawyers. why would 17 was his partner. and that his reputation was not 18 someone target you. Alan DCTS11OWiiI. with these very 18 good in the community. 19 serious allegations?" 19 Q. Did David Efron provide you with the 20 My response: 'Well. I fit beautifully 20 support for his alleged conclusion that 21 into the profile because they want to be able to 21 Brad Edward? reputation is not good? 22 challenge the plea agreement. and I was one of the 22 MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. Do we 23 lawyers who organized the plea agreement. I got the 23 have the continuing objection. sir? 24 very good deal for Jeffrey Epstein. I plead guilty 24 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yes. continuing 25 to getting him a good deal. That's my job. And if 25 objection. 694 696 1 they can find a lawyer who helped draft the 1 MR. SIMPSON: Thank you. 2 agreement who was also a criminal having sex. wow. 2 A. I think he — I think he either brought me 3 that could help them blow up the agreement. So they 3 or told me about some newspaper articles, which I 4 sat down together. the three of them, these two 4 then read and formed my own conclusion. And he 5 sleazy. unprofessional. disbanabk lawyers. Paul 5 also -- 6 Cassell. a former federal judge and current 6 BY MR. EDWARDS: 7 professor, and another sleazy lawyer from Florida 7 Q. Which newspaper articles did David Efron 8 Brad Edwards, whose partner is in jail for 50 years 8 provide you? 9 to trying to sell Epstein cases fraudulently. they 9 A. I don't remember. But I -- at that point 10 sat down together and they said, who would fit into 10 in time. I was not reading the local newspapers, and 11 this description, a lawyer who knows Epstein who 11 apparently there was some large coverage of the 12 helped draft. ha. Dershowitz. So they and the woman 12 Rothstein matter. 13 got together and contrived and made this up: 13 I didn't really know about the Rothstein 14 That is a truthful statement, and I stand 14 matter much at all. But when my accusation 15 by 15 occurred. I got lots and lots of calls from people 16 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Okay. 16 telling me about the Rothstein matter and giving me 17 BY MR. EDWARDS: 17 all kinds of information about it. 18 Q. In January -- on January 5, 2015, when you 18 Q. Wtnn't it within the context of what 19 made the statement that Brad Edwards and Paul 19 you're now describing the Rothstein matter that Jack 20 Cassell sat down with the woman together and 28 Scarola attempted to depose you in 2011? 21 contrived and made this up, had you already spoken 21 A. I don't recall whether that was the 22 with David Efron? 22 Rothstein matter. But I wasn't following it. 23 A. Yes. 23 Q. When you communicated with Mr. Scuola 24 Q. Okay. What is the date when you spoke to 24 about whether or not you could be subject or would 25 David Efron? 25 be subject to deposition, are you saying that you 13 (Pages 693 to 696) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602451 697 699 1 had no idea which case — that the case in which you 1 instruction. 2 were being asked for deposition? 2 A. Yeah. I mean. obviously -- 3 A. I wasn't following that case. I was only 3 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Short of that. 4 interested in the fact that I was being asked to be 4 A. — I'm not the talking about material. 5 deposed on. A. lawyer-client privileged information 5 much of which I got from lawyer-client privileged 6 or. B. facts that weren't true: namely an allegation 6 information. But I can't talk about that. 7 that I had observed young women in the presence of 7 So I will talk about another person called 8 Jeffrey Epstein. I didn't focus on the nature of 8 me, I don't remember the date, who had sued you. 9 the case at all. 9 because he said you had -- 10 Q. So did David Efron provide you with 10 BY MR. EDWARDS: 11 newspaper articles about the Rothstein matter or did 11 Q. Wail. We haven't left the Rothstein 12 he my Brad Edwards participated in a major fraud 12 matter yet we're going to move to that -- 13 with Rothstein? 13 A. He told me about the Rothstein matter. 14 MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form and -- 14 Q. Oh, really? Okay. 15 object to the form. 15 A. Yeah. So he called me and he said. be 16 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'm not ruling 16 very careful about this sleazy guy Rothstein (sic). 17 on the -- those are -- those are reserved for 17 he was sleazy when he represented me. he helped fake 18 later. But I mean -- you should try to ask one 18 evidence. he helped doctor a tape. he was sued. it 19 question and give him one question at a time 19 was dismissed on prosecutorial privilege, but not on 20 and break that up. 20 the merits. And he was also involved in the 21 BY MR. EDWARDS: 21 Rothstein. and he just gave me also general 22 Q. Did David Efron do anything more than 22 information about the Rothstein matter, which many. 23 provide you with newspaper articles on the Rothstein 23 many people gave me. That -- you are burdened with 24 matter? 24 that as part of your reputation. for better or 25 A. Yes. 25 worse. 698 1 Q. Okay. What specifically did he do in 1 Q. I just want the names of the people who 2 addition to providing you with -- do or say in 2 gave it to you. That's all I'm asking. 3 addition to providing you with newspaper articles 3 A. I don't remember his name. hut you would 4 about the Rothstein matter? 4 know his name, the man who sued you. 5 A. To the best of my recollection. this is a s Q. Okay. What facts specifically were you 6 year-old conversation he told me that you were all 6 given or were given to you by David Markus or David 7 tied up in the Rothstein matter. that this was — 7 Efron or anyone else regarding Brad Edwards a involved your whole firmt that you were a protege of 8 participating in a major fraud with Rothstein? 9 his, and that the firm was selling Epstein taus and 9 A. I would like to answer that question. 10 defrauding lots and lots of people. That's the 10 MR. INDYKE: Same objection. same 11 general thrust of what he told roc. 11 instruction. 12 Q. Just so I'm clear. did he -- are you 12 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let me stop for 13 saying he shared with you his conclusion that 13 a second. You can answer it. but I think we've 14 Brad Edwards was involved in the Rothstein fraud? 14 plowed this ground some. So go ahead. 15 MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. 15 A. Let me answer it. I was told that you 16 A. I wouldn't use the term -conclusion.* 16 were his protege. that you were Rothstein's protege. 11 That's not the way conversations occur. He gave me 17 That the two of you were essentially joined at the 18 bets front which I drew my own conclusion. 18 hip. or were inseparable. That you had offices near 19 BY MR. EDWARDS: 19 each other. That Rothstein didn't do anything 20 Q. Is there anyone else whose name you can 20 without conferring with you. That you were "the 21 provide us today in addition to David Markus and 21 brains of the operation." he was the rainmaker, you 22 David Efron that provided you information from which 22 were the brains of the operation. 23 you concluded that Brad Edwards participated in a 23 I was told that the case for which he went 24 major fraud with Rothstein? 24 to jail for 50-something years involved Epstein. 25 MR. INDYKE: Same objeaion. same 25 That you had kind of jointly worked on Epstein 14 (Pages 697 to 700) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602452 701 703 1 mattes. That I was -- let me see what else. 1 testified in your deposition? 2 Mars the thrust of it. That was the thrust of it. 2 Q. No, I'm asking you. 3 BY MR. EDWARDS: 3 A. I certainly have absolutely no memory of 4 Q. Who told you that Scott Rothstein and 4 that. Where would that have been? When would it 5 Brad Edwards were "joined at the hip"? 5 have been? 6 A. I heard that probably from more than one 6 Q. Just answer, were you sitting at the 7 person. 7 table? 8 Q. Then give me more than one pennies name. 8 A. I have no mentor• of that whatsoever. 9 That's fine. 9 Q. Okay. Okay. Who told you that — 10 A. I daft remember specifically who told me 10 A. But if I was -- 11 that but that certainly came out of my 11 Q. -- Scott Rothstein -- 12 conversations with the various lawyers. that you 12 A. --I would like to see the transcript. 13 were very close. 13 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on a 14 Q. Were you aware of my deposition being 14 second. 15 taken in Mr. Scarola's office on the subject matter 15 BY MR. EDWARDS: 16 of the Jeffrey Epstein suit against me and my 16 Q. Who told you that Scott Rothstein didn't 17 countersuit that related to the Rothstein matter 17 do anything without conferring with Brad Edwards? 18 you're referring to? 18 A. I heard that routinely front a number of 19 MR. INDYKE: Same objection• same 19 people. that you were his brains. 20 instruction. 20 Q. Can you please provide the names of those 21 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Well, short of 21 number of people that told you that Scott Rothstein 22 that objection. I didn't -- I didn't understand 22 did not do anything without me? 23 the question. 23 A. That would require going into privilege. 24 MR. EDWARDS: I'm -- 24 MR. SCAROLA: We would like a ruling on 25 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: If you 25 whether there has been a waiver with respect to 702 704 1 understood it. you can answer. But I didn't 1 that privilege as a consequence of having 2 understand the question. 2 disclosed the content of this information. 3 MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form. Nor did 3 MRANDYKE: If Mr. Dershowitz is 4 I. 4 referring to Mr. Epstein. then I would object 5 BY MR. EDWARDS: 5 to — 6 Q. So you testified that you were not really 6 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Did you gel 7 aware of the Rothstein matter: is that right? 7 that'? 8 A. Yes. 8 COURT REPORTER: No. 9 Q. And my question is. when my deposition was 9 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Can you repeat 10 taken in that matter, were you aware of the fact 10 the -- I want to make sure that we get the 11 that my deposition was taken? 11 record clear. 12 A. I think so. I think I was. yes. 12 Go ahead and repeat your objection on the 13 Q. And how were you aware of the fact that my 13 phone. Darren. 14 deposition was taken? 19 MRANDYKE: If Mr. DLTS11OWiii. by 15 MR. INDYKE: Same objection. saris• 15 referring to privilege, is referring to 16 instruction. 16 anything that he may have learned through his 17 BY MR. EDWARDS: 17 representation of Mr. Epstein or through a 18 Q. And were you aware of the testimony that I 18 common interest agreement with Mr. Epstein. 19 provided at that deposition? 19 then I would object to disclosure of the 20 A. Not the details of it. certainly. 20 contents. 21 Q. Weren't you sitting at the table as I 21 MR. SCOTT: We also object on work product 22 testified for my deposition? 22 because this is whole new area now, and I don't 23 A. No. 23 think there's been any waiver. 24 Q. You weren't? 24 SPECIAL MASTER PO72UOLI: Well. fm going 25 A. I was sitting at the table when you 25 reserve, consistent with yesterdays rulings. 15 (Pages 701 to 704) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602453 705 1 that we will protect the privilege for now and 1 was told. But I was told that by a number of 2 we'll reserve for a later fuller discussion on 2 people -- 3 this. So well mark this and we'll move 3 Q. Did — 4 forward. 4 A. — using different phrases. 5 MR. EDWARDS: Okay. S Q. Can you provide me the name of the number 6 BY MR. EDWARDS: 6 of people that are outside of any of the common 7 Q. At the time when you were told that Scott 7 interest or attorney-client privilege that told you 8 Rothstein did not do anything without conferring 8 Brad Edwards was the brains behind the Scott 9 with Brad Edwards. were you representing Jeffrey 9 Rothstein operation? 10 Epstein? 10 A. I cant give you a name of somebody who 11 A. Yes. 11 said those precise words outside the privilege. 12 Q. Wind were the circumstances of your 12 Q. Can you give me the name of somebody who 13 learning that information that Scott Rothstein did 13 said words similar to that effect outside the 19 not do anything without conferring with 14 privilege? 15 Brad Edwards? 15 A. As I sit here now. I cannot. But I will 16 MR. INDYKE: Sante objection. same 16 try to refresh my recollection. 17 instruction. 17 Q. Okay. You also testified that you spoke 18 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: If you can 18 with somebody that told you Brad Edwards fabricated 19 answer outside the privilege. 19 evidence as a prosecutor. 20 A. There's nothing outside of the privilege. 20 A. That's right. That's right. 21 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: So I would say 21 Q. What is the name of that person that told 22 the following: I'm going to. for now. grant 22 you that information? 23 the objection. consistent with yesterday. and I 23 A. You know that. I don't. As I'm sitting 24 think we need to either -- whether it's in 24 here today. I have no memory. But we can get that 25 front of me or in front of Judge Lynch. fully 25 for you. You, of course, know the name. 706 708 1 explore the timing of what -- the tinting of 1 Q. Why do you say that I know the name? 2 when -- the timetable you're inquiring relative 2 A. Because he sued you. 3 to his representation and the scope of that 3 SPECIAL MASTER PO2ZUOLL This is not — 4 representation to best determine whether there 4 Mr. Dershowitx. answer the question that's been 5 was a privilege and if it exists. So for 5 asked and let's not have crosstalk. 6 now — 6 A. I do not know the name. 7 MR. INDYKE I'm sorry Your Honor, just 7 BY MR. EDWARDS: 8 for the record, as well as any kind of common 8 Q. At our next break, can you get us the name 9 interest agreement as well. 9 of this individual? 10 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Fine. 10 A. I will try. I will try. 11 BY MR. EDWARDS: 11 Q. When did you have a conversation with this 12 Q. The last statement that you testified you 12 individual that told that you Brad Edwards 13 were told was that Brad Edwards was the brains 13 fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 14 behind the Scott Rothstein operation. 14 A. Shortly after the allegations in my cast. 15 A. That's right. 15 he called me. 16 Q. Who outside of the privilege that you have 16 Q. Did you meet with this person? 17 with Jeffrey Epstein told you that information? 17 A. I did not. But -- I did not. 18 A. Well, outside the privilege and outside of 18 Q. Did you attempt to ascertain the 19 common interest privilege and joint defense 19 truthfulness -- 20 privilege. 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Outside of the privileges -- 21. Q. — of this — 22 A. All those three privileges. 22 MR. SCOTT: Listen to the question. 23 Q. Yes. 23 SPECIAL MASTER PO2ZUOLI: Listen to the 24 A. I don't have any distinct -- I can't 24 question. 25 separate out necessarily the sources of everything I 25 16 (Pages 705 to 708) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602454 709 711 1 BY MR. EDWARDS: 1 Brad Edwards. I don't -- I didn't focus an any 2 Q. — of this individual's statements that 2 other people who might have been sued. But I did 3 Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 3 focus on Brad Edwards and I did get the pleadings. 4 A. I did. 4 and last year early in the year I read them. I -- 5 Q. What did you do to -- 5 my research assistant went through all the 6 6 pleadings. Ether he or I or both of us viewed the 7 Q. What did you do to ascertain the 7 videotape together. He note me some note about it. 8 truthfulness of this gentleman's statements that 8 And I came to the conclusion that the lawsuit was a 9 Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 9 very valid one. 10 A. I obtained all of the pleadings that I 10 Q. Was that note that you just described a 11 could in the case. including the tampered videotape. 11 part of that conclusion that you reached? 12 I obtained the expert analysis of the videotape. I 12 A. No. the note was probably just. here is 13 think I personally viewed the videotape. It was a 13 the video. here is this. here is that. It was 14 jail videotape. 14 just -- my recollection of the note, it was just an 15 And I came to my own independent 15 inventory of some kind. 16 conclusion that the videotape had been tampered 16 Q. Did you read the jury trial transcript 17 with. that the defendant had been denied his due 17 from the criminal case you're referring to? 18 process rights. and that he would have prevailed in 18 A. Well, the civil case had no jury. had no 19 that lawsuit but for prosecutorial immunity. 19 trial. It was dismissed. The criminal case, I 20 MR. SCAROLA: Could we inquire as to 20 don't remember if I read the jury trial or if my 21 whether these materials that Mr. Dershowitz 21 research assistant did or -- I just don't remember 22 contends he relied upon have been disclosed in 22 that. I do remember reading the pleadings. which 23 discovery in this case in response to 23 included excerpts from the trial. 24 production requests that clearly would have 24 Q. Did you read any of the transcripts from 25 called for that production? 25 the testimony regarding that defendant's motion for 710 1 MR. SIMPSON: I don't -- I will answer 1 ineffective assistance of counsel? 2 that question at a break. I'm not agreeing 2 A. No. not that I can recall. 3 whether it's called for or not called. but I 3 Q. Did you read any of the transcripts from 4 don't have a microscopic memory of everything 4 the hearing on that defendant's complaints about 5 that's been produced in the case. But 5 misconduct on behalf of the City of Hollywood Police 6 certainly if it was called for and it was 6 Department or any others? 7 responsive, it was either produced or is on a 7 A. I did —I do remember reading about the 8 privilege log. 8 fact that the actual physical tampering was done by 9 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let's deal with 9 the Hollywood Police Depanment. But the 10 that at break between you guys. Go ahead. 10 allegation. to my best of my memory. it's been a 11 BY MR. EDWARDS: 11 long time now, was that you covered it up or played 12 Q. Is the person you are referring to Donald 12 a role in it. 13 Baker? 13 Q. Did you review the criminal record of this 14 A. 1 don't have his name in my mind. but I 14 individual that provided you with the information 15 can find that out. 15 that Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a 16 Q. Is this the lawsuit where the person sued 16 prosecutor? 17 Michael Satz. Judge Micheal Gates. the entire 17 A. I don't remember reviewing his criminal 18 Hollywood Police Department, and in that list of 18 record. I do recall that the crime itself — no. I 19 defendants included the prosecutors of the case. 19 just -- I don't remember reviewing his criminal 20 which was Brad Edwards and some other prosecutor I 20 record. I may very well have. but I don't remember 21 don't remember the name? 21 it now. 22 A. That's not my recollection. 22 Q. When you say you do remember rut icy. ing the 23 Q. Is your recollection that this is a 23 crime itself, the crime was a battery on a law 24 lawsuit that was filed against Brad Edwards alone? 24 enforcement officer. Is that what you remember? 25 A. My focus was on the lawsuit filed against 25 A. My recollection is that in the course of 17 (Pages 709 to 712) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602455 713 715 1 being arrested. he was accused of resisting arrest. 1 this gentleman was sentenced to prison after the 2 That's my best recollection. I may have that wrong. 2 jury verdict finding him guilty of battery on a law 3 And that he complained that they cut off -- that he 3 enforcement officer? 4 was assaulted and he was only defending himself, and 4 A. My recollection is that he was offered a 5 that they cut off the video at the point that would 5 plea if he would withdraw his lawsuit, and that he 6 show the complete context. That's my best 6 refused to withdraw his lawsuit. I think that was 7 recollection. And it's. again. a long time ago. 7 part of his Complaint. that he was coerced, that 8 Q. Did you or your representative Initiate 8 there was an effort to try to coerce him into 9 the contact with this individual who -- 9 pleading guilty. But again. these were all matters 10 A. No. 10 of rccord, and its a year ago. so my recollection 11 Q. -- claimed that Brad Edwards fabricated 11 is not as clear. 12 evidence as a prosecutor? 12 Q. What documents do you have to support that 13 A. No. no. To my knowledge and my 13 this gentleman was offered a plea in exchange for 14 recollection, he initiated the contact. 14 him agreeing to withdraw a lawsuit? 15 Q. Is this — did this individual's criminal 15 A. That was my memory. 16 record include a first-degree murder conviction? 16 Q. In order for that to be the case, wouldn't 17 A. Certainly I was not aware of that. if it 17 you agree that his lawsuit must have preceded his 18 did. 18 jury trial in order for your logic to be correct? 19 Q. Did -- in your review of this record -- 19 A. Of course not. Of course not, no. Why 20 A. I would find that hard to believe. 20 would that be? A lawsuit almost certainly -- he may 21 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Listen. 21 have threatened a lawsuit previously and it was part 22 A. He was out on the street when he called 22 of a -- my understanding. again. it's long time ago. 23 me. 23 was that there was -- there were plea bargaining 24 BY MR. EDWARDS: 24 efforts after he was convicted and that there 25 Q. Do you remember whether or not this 25 were -- this is just my memory of a long time ago -- 714 716 1 defendant was sentenced to prison after his 1 that the — that they would give him a consideration 2 conviction? 2 in sentencing if he didn't go through with his 3 A. I'm confused. Is the conviction you're 3 threat to bring a lawsuit. That was my 4 referring to after the events at issue? 4 recollection. 5 Q. The conviction of battery on a law 5 Q. In addition to talking to this particular 6 enforcement officer, the case I prosecuted. 6 individual who told you that Brad Edwards fabricated 7 A. Did that take place before or after his 7 evidence as a prosecutor — S alleged conviction on a murder charge? 8 A. Right. or participated in the fabrication. 9 Q. Well after. 9 Q. -- did you speak to anyone else that was a 10 A. So. what you're asking me. if I knew about 10 representative of his or his attorneys that 11 a prior earlier first-degree murder conviction? 11 corroborated that allegation? 12 Q. Sure. My first question is, did you know 12 A. Representative of his? 13 about a prior earlier first-degree murder conviction 13 Q. Anybody other than - 14 of this person whose word you're accepting that 14 SPECIAL MASTER ROZZUOIJ Thai tin: 15 Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 15 question. yes. 16 Did you know about that? 16 A. Not to my recollection. no. 17 A. I was not accepting his word. I'm aware 17 BY MR. EDWARDS: 18 of how to be skeptical about words. I did an 18 Q. Have you — has anyone other than this 19 independent evaluation of the evidence, then canner to 19 particular person you have identified told you that 20 my conclusion. 20 Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a prosecutor? 21 Q. Were you aware of this gentleman's prior 21 A. That's a conclusion -- first of all. I 22 murder conviction? 22 never, as fax as I remember. never publicly stated 23 A. I'm not aware of it as I sit here now. no. 23 that. I've told you that that was pan of what went 24 I don't think I was. 24 into my conclusion about your reputation and record 25 Q. Are you aware as you sit here now whether 25 and background. 18 (Pages 713 to 716) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602456 717 719 1 But the question again? 1 no to a question that clearly can be answered 2 Q. Right. A person's name. Tell me what 2 with a "yes' or "no" or "I dont remember"? 3 other -- what other individual, if anyone, has ever 3 SPECIAL MASTER PO'CLUOLI: Before anybody 4 told you Brad Edwards fabricated evidence as a 4 objects to his answrr, let's see what he says. 5 prosecutor. S Go ahead, and then well work backwards. 6 A. I did not rely on his statement to me of 6 A. What's the question again? Just repeat - 7 that. I did my own research. came to my own 7 BY MR. EDWARDS: 8 conclusion about the facts based on my review of 8 Q. Sure. Did you attempt to contact 9 the — 9 Brad Edwards or any representative of Brad Edwards 10 MR. EDWARDS: Object. Move to strike as 10 to talk to him about any allegation of misconduct on 11 Nonresponsive. 11 his part before you relied on those allegations from 12 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLk Stay focused on 12 these individuals you have identified? 13 the question being asked. 13 SPECIAL MASTER POrLUOLI: So. I've heard 14 A. No other name -- no other person told me 14 the question. I do think that it's either yes 15 that. I did it on the basis of my own research. 15 or no. and I'm going to allow you full latitude 16 BY MR. EDWARDS: 16 to explain. So please proceed in that manner. 17 Q. Can you tell me the names of all of the 17 A. It's no with an explanation. 18 individuals that told you Brad Edwards has a 18 SPECIAL MASTER PO'CLUOLI: Go ahead. 19 terrible reputation? 19 A. Because I was not making these allegations 20 MR. INDYKE: Objection. Same objection. 20 public, as you made your allegations against me 21 BY MR. EDWARDS: 21 public without calling me, because I was not making 22 Q. Outside of the attorney-client privilege, 22 these allegations public, because I was only using 23 the joint defense privilege and any other privileges 23 them as part of my own internal work product. my own 24 that you maintain with Jeffrey Epstein. Chislaine 24 internal dynamic. my own thinking process. I didnt 25 Maxwell or anyone else a part of that agreement. 25 think it was necessary for me to call you and ask 718 720 1 MR. SIMPSON: Object to the form as 1 you about it. And so I did not. 2 becoming very redundant. 2 BY MR. EDWARDS: 3 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: You can answer. 3 Q. Did you attempt to contact Brad Edwards or 4 A. Several people who came to me at these Bar 4 any agent of Brad Edwards to talk to him before 5 meetings told me that, and I just heard it from 5 making the allegation that "Brad Edwards and Paul 6 many. many people who called me. 6 Cassell and sat down together, the 7 BY MR. EDWARDS: 7 three of them, these two sleazy, unprofessional. 8 Q. Okay. I'm -- 8 disbarrable lawyers, they and the woman got together 9 A. But Pm having difficulty coming up with a 9 and contrived and made this up"? 10 specific name. I will check to sec if I have any 10 k Well -- 11 notes. 11 Q. Yes or no? 12 Q. I just want the list of those many, many 12 A. The answer to that is with Brad Edwards. 13 people in response to this question that told you 13 no. With Cassell. it would be a different answer a 14 Brad Edwards has a terrible reputation. 14 you want to ask me about that. 15 A. Okay. And I. right now, cannot name any 15 Q. All right. Okay. Prior to January 5, 16 person other than the information that I have 16 2015, making the statement that they. Brad Edwards 17 already provided you. 17 and Paul Cassell. and the woman got together and 18 Q. Did you ever attempt to contact 18 contrived and made this up. did you contact Paul 19 Brad Edwards or any representative of Brad Edwards 19 Cassell? 20 to talk to him about any allegation of misconduct on 20 A. 1 tried to reach out to Paul Cassell 21 his part before you relied on these allegations you 21 through a number of mutual acquaintances, and was 22 received? 22 told that he had no interest in having any 23 A. This will require — I can't do this yes 23 conversation with me. 24 or no. I can only do this with an explanation. 24 Q. Tell me the dale that you first reached 25 MR. SCAROLA: Could we start with a yes or 25 out to Paul Cassell through anyone. 19 (Pages 717 to 720) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602457 721 723 1 A. I don't recall the date. 1 under seal. And our position is that the 2 Q. Is it your testimony that the date you 2 individuals who need to be present at that 3 tried to reach out to Paul Cassell preceded 3 deposition are the panics in this case. so the 4 January 5,2015, when you made the statement that 4 actual — Brad and Paul. their lawyers. and 5 Brad Edwards and Paul Cassell and this woman got 5 Mr. Dershowitz and his lawyers. 6 together and contrived and made this up? 6 No other individuals: for example. 7 A. That will require a "no- answer and an 7 Mr. Dershowitis wife or anybody else can be 8 explanation. Okay. The explanation is that before 8 present at that deposition. It's a deposition 9 you made your false allegation against me. you had 9 of who we contend is a sex abuse victim. It 10 months and months and months to reach out and do all 10 should be closed and sealed, and nobody else 11 the checking. 11 should be present. 12 I was in an emergency situation. I was 12 SPECIAL MASTER POELUOLI: Do you not want 13 getting calls. probably a hundred a day. from every 13 me there? 14 media in the world asking me to respond immediately. 14 MS. McCAWLEY: I do want you there. 15 And I had to respond at that point based on the best 15 Sony. 16 information I had available to me. I could not hire 16 MR. SIMPSON: Our position is that 17 an investigator. I could not conduct a massive 17 Professor Dershowitis wife should be permitted 18 research operation. I was being accused of the most 18 to attend. They're married. Shell agree to 19 heinous crime imaginable. absolutely falsely. and I 19 whatever confidentiality. She's worked with 20 had to respond immediately. 20 him on the case as a paralegal. She's entitled 21 And my response was based on my state of 21 to be there. 22 knowledge. my opinion. my professional opinion. and 22 We have advised -- and I don't know if 23 I gave those at the time because I had to give a 23 Darren is still on the line -- counsel for 24 response immediately. I couldn't say "no comment.' 24 Mr. Epstein that it's confidential and that 25 I couldn't say.1 refuse to answer." Others have 25 non-parties are net permitted to attend. per 722 724 1 done that. I was totally. totally innocent. And I 1 Ms. McCawley's position that its between those 2 had to respond immediately to these false charges. 2 folks if they disagree about that. But as to 3 which is what I did. 3 Mrs. Cohen. we're adamant she has a right to he 4 I need to take a break. 4 there and there's no legitimate basis for 5 MR. SCOTT: Take recess for a couple of 5 excluding her. 6 minutes. 6 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on one 7 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let's take a 7 second. Anything else? 8 ten-minute break. Lawyers. can you stay for 8 MR. SCOTT': No. 9 just a second. I want to deal with a secondary 9 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Mr. Scarola. 10 matter dealing with a deposition on Saturday. 10 Mr. Edwards. do you have an opinion on this? 11 VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The 11 MR. SCAROLA: Na 12 time is 10:32 a.m. 12 MR. EDWARDS: Our opinion is consistent 13 (Discussion held off video record only as follows:) 13 with the opinion of Sigrid McCawley or the 14 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: We are off the 14 argument of Sigrid McCawley. 15 video. but I wanted to have this on the record. 15 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Darren. go 16 I've reviewed the confidentiality order that's 16 ahead. 17 pending that was issued by Judge Lynch. and I 17 MR. INDYKE: I would like to give this to 18 just want to be clear as we head into the 18 Florida counsel because this is the first I'm 19 deposition on Saturday as to get the party's 19 hearing of it. But I would say that at the 20 view as to who should be in attendance at that 20 very least. there's some confidentiality 21 deposition. So. Ms. McCawley, why don't you 21 obligations that are applicable to Ms. 22 start. 22 in connection with the settlement agreement 23 NIS. NIcCAWLEY: Sure. Sure. The 23 that was signed. And that Mr. Epstein should 24 deposition is a confidential deposition that is 24 have counsel there present to protect any 25 going to be held under seal. It will be filed 25 disclosures — 20 (Pages 721 to 724) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602458 725 727 1 MR. SCAROLA: We have a very strong 1 record. I mentioned to Rick yesterday I have to 2 opinion on that. 2 leave here at 3:45 this afternoon. so he made 3 MS. McCAWLEY: Right. And I just want to 3 representations that there wouldn't be any 4 be clear. Mr. Epstein's counsel has not 4 testimony with respect to Boies Schiller 5 appeared in this case. I argued this issue 5 Flexner or those allegations that have 6 before the judge. and I have a confidentiality 6 repetitively come up in the deposition outside 7 order from Judge Lynch signed based on my 7 of counsel's presence. But I do have to leave 8 motion to quash. 8 because I have to catch a plane. so I won't be 9 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLk 1 ve rereviewed 9 here this afternoon, and they've agreed to 10 both your motions and the order. 10 that. 11 Darren. anything else? 11 MR. SIMPSON: She's correct about the 12 MR. INDYKE: No. that's as far as I 12 agreement. 13 understand right now. 13 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: What we might 14 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Mr. Scant. you 14 do. then is break at that point if were going 15 wanted to say something? You were -- you had 15 to have to come back anyway. 16 sonic strong opinion I wanted to hear. 16 MR. EDWARDS: What time is that? 17 MR. SCAROLA: The purpose of the 17 MS. McCAWLEY: 3:45. 18 confidentiality motion was to exclude 18 THE WITNESS: If we could finish in a 19 Mr. Epstein from the deposition among other 19 couple of hours. Id like to do that, if that's 20 purposes. But we did not want to be in a 20 possible. 21 position where was 21 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: It's not my 22 obliged to give her testimony in front of any 22 deposition. 23 of her abusers, but most specifically not in 23 MR. EDWARDS: At this stage and at this 24 front of the individual accused of having 24 pace. I don't see how that's possible. That 25 maintained her as a sex slave for an extended 25 was my goal. but I don't see it happening. 726 728 1 period of tint. 1 Well see where we are. 2 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: So. I've 2 THE WITNESS: I hope we get to this 3 reviewed both the motion that was filed as well 3 letter. I spent all night reading it last 4 as the order. While the order lacks any real 4 night at your request. 5 specificity. my view of the order is as S MR. EDWARDS: I think we'll at least make 6 follows: That the deposition on Saturday. 6 a dent. 7 obviously the named panics and their 7 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let's go back on 8 representatives can attend. The witness and 8 and plow forward. 9 their counsel can attend. The court reporter 9 VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. We're going back on 10 and myself. And that will be it. 10 the record. The time is 10:50 am. 11 If there is any further clarification from 11 BY MR. EDWARDS: 12 Judge Lynch. I'm happy to consider it. But as 12 Q. So, in addition to the statements that -- 13 of right now, those arc the only panics and 13 or the information that you had in your pm:session 14 people that will be allowed to attend the 14 at the time that you made the public statement on 15 deposition. 15 January 5. 2015. regarding Brad Edwards, you also 16 MS. McCAWLEY: Thank you. 16 indicated initially that you had certain information 17 MR. SCOTT: You are excluding Ms. Cohen? 17 in your possession with respect to Paul Cassell as 18 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I'm excluding 18 well, correct? 19 Ms. Cohen and excluding Mr. Epstein's 19 A. That's right, yes. 20 attorneys. 20 Q. One of the things I wrote down is that you 21 MR. INDYKE: I just want to note my 21 were told that Paul Cassell is a zealot. 22 objection. but I will take that up with Florida 22 A. Right. 23 counsel. 23 Q. When were you told Paul Cassell is a 24 (Recess was held from 10:37 a.m. until 10:50 a.m.) 24 zealot? 25 MS. McCAWLEY: Just for something for the 25 A. Immediately. 21 (Pages 725 to 728) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602459 729 731 1 MR. INDYKE: Same objection. same 1 led me to the conclusion that he was a zealot. 2 instruction. 2 I also read a great deal of his material. 3 A. Shortly them -- shortly after the 3 MR. EDWARDS: I move to strike as 4 allegations were made. 4 nonresponsive to this question. 5 BY MR. EDWARDS: 5 A. Okay. I'll give you some descriptions. 6 Q. And who told you that Paul Cassell is a 6 Q. I want the names of individuals. 7 zealot? 7 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Listen. 8 MR. INDYKE: Same objection. same 8 BY MR. EDWARDS: 9 instruction. 9 Q. The names of individuals who told you that 10 MR. SIMPSON: Outside the privilege. 10 Paul Cassell is a zealot. 11 A. Numerous people. That was a common term 11 A. I can't remember names, but I can give you 12 used to describe him. I can tell you the people I 12 some descriptions. if you want. 13 spoke to. but, again. I can't identify who precisely 13 Q. No, I want names of people. 14 would have used that term. 14 A. Okay. 15 BY MR. EDWARDS: 15 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on one 16 Q. You previously said that numerous 16 second. He's now answered the question. So -- 17 people -- 17 BY MR. EDWARDS: 18 A. They did. 18 Q. At this stage, you cannot provide me the 19 Q. -- told you that Paul Cassell is a zealot. 19 name,. of any individuals that told you Paul Cassell 20 and that assisted in providing the basis for your 20 is a zealot; is that correct? 21 statement that you made publicly about Paul Cassell. 21 A. I can give you descriptions, which would 22 I'm only asking for you to identify by 22 lead you to be able to probably find out the names. 23 name the individuals that specifically told you Paul 23 Q. Descriptions of people? 24 Cassell is a zealot. I just want a list of names. 24 A. Description of people. yeah. 25 MR. SIMPSON: Objection. a.ked and 25 Q. Okay. Not descriptions of the statements; 730 732 1 answered. 1 descriptions of the people? 2 MR. INDYKE: Same objection. same 2 A. No. description of people. 3 instruction. 3 Q. Okay. I'll lake right now descriptions of 4 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: In a 4 the people who told you that Paul Cassell is a 5 nonprivileged context. 5 zealot. 6 MR. SCAROLA: So that the record is clear. 6 A. I got a number of calls from people who 7 the question does not limit itself to a 7 were in litigation with Paul Cassell. He purports 8 nonprivileged context because our position is 8 to be an expert on false confessions. Apparently 9 the privilege has been waived. We understand 9 he's not. 10 that we may only get a limited response. but 10 MR. EDWARDS: Object and move to strike as 11 the question does not include the limitation. 11 nonresponsive. 12 MR. SCOTT: And this is -- our position is 12 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I would agree 13 that this is the entire arca. and that even if 13 and grant that Motion to Strike. Provide the 14 you accept. which we don't. that he waived the 14 descriptions of the names pursuant to the 15 other conversation, this has not been touched 15 question. 16 on or waived. 16 A. Okay. So a number of people who were 17 MR. INDYKE: My position is that 17 involved in litigation concerning his alleged 18 Mr. Epstein waived no such privilege. 18 expertise as a witness on false confessions -- 19 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Okay. So with 19 BY MR. EDWARDS: 20 that said, please provide an answer outside of 20 Q. Okay. 21 the context of the privilege. which will be 21 A. -- called me. 22 reserved for a later argument. 22 Q. Category number one, then, is people 23 A. Right now all I can think of is the number 23 involved in litigation currently with Paul Cassell 24 of people who gave me information about Paul 24 on false confession cases? 25 Cassell. but I cannot with specificity indicate who 25 A. That's right, yes. 22 (Pages 729 to 732) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602460 733 735 1 Q. And are these people that you are 1 correct. And I also did my own investigation. 2 describing lawyers or litigants? 2 MR. SCAROLA: Did those include privileged 3 A. Lawyers. lawyers. But not in a privilege. 3 and nonprivileged communications? 4 Q. Do you remember which party these lawyers 4 BY MR. EDWARDS: 5 that you're describing represent? 5 Q. Did those communications that led you to 6 A. Yes. The party opposed to Paul Cassell, 6 the conclusion that Paul Cassell is a zealot iot holt- 7 the party that were challenging his expertise. 7 both privileged and nonprivileged conummiL at II rots.' 8 Q. How many different lawyers are you 8 A. Yes. 9 describing that are currently in litigation with 9 Q. And with respect to the privileged 10 Paul Cassell? 10 communications, are you claiming that the 11 A. To my best recollection, two. 11 communication that Paul Cassell is a zealot came 12 Q. Do these two lawyers work at the same law 12 from people with whom you share an attorney-client 13 firm? 13 privilege because they're your attorneys or with 14 A. No. 14 whom you share a joint defense attorney-client 15 Q. Do these two — are these two lawyers, to 15 privilege because they are attorneys or 16 the best of your understanding, working on separate 16 representatives of Jeffrey Epstein? 17 false confession cases against Paul Cassell? 17 MR. SCOTT: Wait a minute. I'm objecting 18 A. I think so. but Int not absolutely 18 to that on work product and were going to -- 19 certain. 19 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Go ahead. 20 Q. Do you know where it is that these two 20 Darren. get your -- 21 lawyers that you're describing practice? 21 MR. INDYKE: Objection. Same objection. 22 A. My best recollection, this is just a 22 same instruction on a number of grounds. 23 recollection- one of them is in the midwest. maybe 23 including attorney-client privilege as well as 24 Chicago. And another I think in the mid south. I'm 24 common interest. 25 not positive, maybe Atlanta. But those are -- 25 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Read the 734 736 1 again. I can probably find these names, but I don't 1 question back. 2 have them off the top of my head. 2 COURT REPORTER: "And with respect to the 3 Q. Have you provided these names or these 3 privileged communications. are you claiming 4 descriptions in response to any requests for 4 that the communication that Paul Cassell is a 5 production in this case? 5 zealot came from people with whom you share an 6 A. I don't provide that. My lawyers do. But 6 attorney-client privilege because they're your 7 I don't think anybody has ever -- these are not -- 7 attorneys or with whom you sham a joint 8 MR. SIMPSON: Answer the question. 8 defense attorney-client privilege because they 9 A. I don't know the answer to that. 9 are attorneys or representatives of Jeffrey 10 BY MR. EDWARDS: 10 Epstein?" 11 Q. Is there anything more that you can 11 MR. INDYKE: In doing so. you're not only 12 provide me in the way of description of the 12 identifying the people but you're also 13 individuals that told you that Paul Cassell is a 13 identifying the contents of the disclosure. 14 zealot? 14 MR. SCAROLA: No. we're identifying the 15 A. No, but what I can do is give you names of 15 nature of the privilege being asserted. 16 people who called me and discussed with me Paul 16 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: The nature or 17 Cassell. 17 the privilege — hang on a second. 18 Q. We'll get there. Different category. Did 18 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you. I'm sorry. 19 these other people that called you, did they also 19 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: They're trying 20 tell you Paul Cassell is a zealot? 20 to identify the nature of the privilege being 21 A. Well, I can only tell you again. as I said 21. asserted. And I do think that if the witness 22 previously, on the basis of all the conversations I 22 does know the answer as opposed to a legal 23 had with about Paul Cassell. I came to the 23 discussion. whoever's going to assert it. I 24 conclusion, as some people had told me. that the 24 think they're entitled to an answer on that. 25 people who told me that he was a zealot were 25 MR. SCOTT: Without any type of waiver 23 (Pages 733 to 736) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602461 737 739 1 position. 1 record is clear as to which privilege is being 2 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Without a 2 asserted. 3 waiver, but they're entitled -- because I don't 3 MR. SCOTT: Jack. I totally agree with 4 think that waives -- I think it's the nature of 4 you. Thank you. 5 what's being asserted. S SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLk Hang on one 6 A. So without waiving — 6 second. So based upon the correction. the 7 MR. SCOTT: Well. wait a minute. So let's 7 privilege being asserted is both work product 8 ask the question again so we have it again. 8 and attomey-client. 9 A. I know the question. 9 MR. SCOTT: Both. 10 MR. SCOTT: I don't. I'm not as smart as 10 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: And so the same 11 you are, 11 ruling for now on the reservation. 12 THE WITNESS: I'm sorry. 12 MR. SCOTT: And. Mr. Special Master. I'm 13 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let's go ahead 13 objecting on both grounds consistent with what 14 and reread the question back so we get it 14 we discussed yesterday. I apologize. And 15 precisely because that's how I ruled. 15 thank you. Mr. Scorpio. 16 COURT REPORTER: "And with respect to the 16 MR. SCAROLA: No apologies necessary. I 17 privileged communications. are you claiming 17 just wanted the record to be clear. 18 that the communication that Paul Cassell is a 18 MR. SCOTT: I appreciate it. 19 zealot came from people with whom you share an 19 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Well. I would 20 attomey-client privilege because theyre your 20 accept your apology. 21 attorneys or with whom you share a joint 21 BY MR. EDWAR1)S: 22 defense attorney-client privilege because they 22 Q. Mr. Dershowitz. are you willing to waive 23 are attorneys or representatives of Jeffrey 23 the attorney-client privilege to provide us the 24 Epstein?" 24 names of the individuals with whom you share a 25 MR. SCOTT: Answer that very concisely. 25 privilege that told you that Paul Cassell -- 738 740 1 A. Both. 1 MR. SCOTT: Don't answer the question. 2 MR. INDYKE: fm sorry. if them is 2 BY MR. EDWARDS: 3 discussion going on. I can't hear any of the 3 Q. -- is a zealot, a fact that you relied 4 discussion. 4 upon before making your public statement? 5 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: No. there's -- 5 MR. SCOTT: Objection. Work product. 1)o 6 we've been quiet. 6 not answer that. He has a right to consult 7 BY MR. EDWARDS: 7 with counsel, and we haven't spoken. 8 8 MR. INDYKE: Objection. Q. With I asiAti to the communications with 9 these individuals where you are the client, can you 9 BY MR. EDWARDS: 10 provide me with the names of those individuals? 10 Q. My only question is, are you willing to 11 MR. SCOTT: Objection. work product. 11 waive. 12 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yeah. ma I'm 12 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Hang on one 13 going to grant the objection and allow them to 13 second. 14 assert the privilege at this point pending 14 MR. INDYKE: Arc we talking about only a, 15 further review. 15 to where Mr. Dershowitz is the client? 16 MR. SCAROLA: I want to -- excuse me. 16 MR. EDWARDS: Yes. 17 Before we proceed. I want to get a 17 MR. INDYKE: Okay. 18 clarification. This privilege that's being 18 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: So. now repeat 19 asserted is a work product privilege. correct? 19 your question so it's clear. 20 MR. SCOTT: And attorney-client privilege. 20 BY MR. EDWARDS: 21 MR. SCAROLA: Okay. Well. you said only 21 Q. Sure. Are you. Alan Dershowitz. willing 22 work product. 22 to waive the attorney-client privilege to provide us 23 MR. SCOTT: Okay. I apologize. If I use 23 the names of the individuals that told you Paul 24 one. I'm referring to both consistent with — 24 Cassell is a zealot? 25 MR. SCAROLA: I wanted to be sure that the 25 MR. SCOTT: Objection. Work product. 24 (Pages 737 to 740) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602462 741 743 1 attorney-client privilege. and I'm instructing 1 sorry. 2 him not to answer that question. 2 Q. Okay. The communications that Paul 3 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Okay. And where 3 amen is a zealot -- 4 he is the client? 4 A. Right. 5 MR. EDWARDS: Where he is the client. 5 Q. -- outside of the two individuals with 6 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Waite 6 whom you do not share privilege that you've 7 instructing him not to answer? 7 described -- 8 MR. SCOTT: Not to answer. I will discuss 8 A. That's right. 9 it with him, and after a break. we can come 9 Q. -- are the remaining individuals that told 10 back to that question. 10 you that information and people that you have met 11 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I believe the 11 with in person. are those people all people with 12 witness has the right to consult with counsel 12 whom you share a privilege? 13 before answering that question. So well 13 A. No. 14 proceed on that grounds. 14 Q. Okay. What people have you met with in 15 MR. EDWARDS: Okay. 15 person with whom you do not share a privilege that 16 BY MR. EDWARDS: 16 have told you Paul Cassell is a zealot? 17 Q. Other than the two lawyers that you have 17 A. I told you I spoke with numerous people. 18 described that told you that Paul Cassell is a 18 I can't now specify a particular name with the word 19 zealot, and any attorneys with whom you share a 19 "zealot" I can give you names of people I spoke to 20 privilege, can you identify or describe any others 20 who gave me intonation about Cassell. 21 that you have not yet told us about that told you 21 MR. SCOTT: If they're not privileged. 22 Paul Cassell is a zealot? 22 A. They're not privileged. 23 A. It's a common term that has been given to 23 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That was his 24 me by numerous lawyers. but I can right now give 24 question. 25 yet any more specificity. Sometimes it's "zealot" 25 742 1 sometimes the term is "true believer." sometimes the 1 BY MR. EDWARDS: 2 tom is an "extremist." But I've heard many terms 2 Q. Please provide me the names of the 3 along those lines that would laid to a consistent 3 individuals you spoke to that provided you 4 conclusion. 4 information about Paul Cassell. 5 Q. When did you receive these communications 5 A. I received a phone call from Senator Orrin 6 from these various individuals that Paul Cassell is 6 Hatch from whom -- for whom he worked. I received 7 a zealot? 7 phone call from a lawyer now -- a lawyer who he had 8 A. From the beginning up through recently. 8 a litigation against somewhere in Arizona or 9 Q. Is it your testimony that you received 9 somewhere in the southwest whose name I don't right 10 that information prior to January 5, 2015? 10 now have on hand. 11 A. Yes- yes. 11 Another name that's popping into my mind, 12 Q. Okay. And what was the form of that 12 but it's privileged. I had a conversation with the 13 communkadon, written or verbal? 13 former President of Ecuador. who had been a student 14 A. I don't remember. Well. I have to check. 14 in one of my classes and was a colleague of 15 I don't remember anything in writing. I think it's 15 Mr. Cassell. We spoke --I think I may have called 16 all been — I think it's all been verbal on the 16 him or he may have called me. I don't remember 17 phone and in person. 17 exactly. 18 Q. Have you met In person with the two 18 Q. This is the President of Ecuador? 19 individuals that you described? 19 A. The former President of Ecuador. 20 A. No. no. 20 Mr. Cassell knows who he is. And — lean try to 21 Q. So when you are speaking about in-person 21 think of other names of people who called me. I 22 communication of the statement that Paul Cassell is 22 will check and see if I have any information 23 a zealot. you're talking about conununications that 23 further. 24 are privileged communications? 24 Q. If you think of them while we're talking. 25 A. I didn't understand the question. fin 25 then let me know. 25 (Pages 741 to 744) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602463 745 747 1 A. Sure. 1 constitutionally protected expression of opinion. 2 Q. What did the lawyer in Arizona tell you 2 and it was based on the totality of circumstances 3 about Paul Cassell? 3 that I had available to me at the time. That 4 A. That he was a zealot and that he was a 4 included reputations of the two people who had made 5 pain in the ass. That was -- I remember that was 5 up the story. It included the statements themselves 6 his exact words. 6 and how they were written and framed. Included the 7 Q. Is this somebody in addition to the other 7 fact that there was no affidavit, that it was 8 two lawyers that you described? 8 written, in fact, by the two lawyers. 9 A. Yes. 9 So of course the lawyers played a role. 10 Q. So now we are up to three lawyers that 10 It was their own words that were being circulated to 11 were in litigation with Paul Cassell that told you 11 millions — hundreds of millions of people around 12 that Paul Cassell is a zealot? 12 the world. 13 A. At least three. yes. 13 Q. But you were — you were saying and you 14 Q. Three that you've been able to describe? 14 said and you conveyed something more than Paul 15 A. Yeah. 15 Cassell and Brad Edwards simply listened to their 16 Q. But as you sit here right now, unable to 16 client and put it on paper, you were saying -- 17 name today? 17 A. That's right. 18 A. I can't. no. 18 Q. — you were saying and are still saying 19 Q. Including this lawyer in Arizona? 19 Paul Cassell and Brad Edwards and 20 A. Yeah. I don't remember if it was Arizona 20 concocted this story about me together? 21 or New Mexico o• Utah. It was a southwest case that 21 A. That's right. 22 was a long, long -- apparently a lengthy litigation. 22 Q. Meaning it wasn't just her words: the 23 Q. Did this lawyer in Arizona telling that 23 lawyers came up with these allegations. That's what 24 you Paul Cassell is a, quote, pain In the ass, 24 you were saying, right? 25 unquote, contribute — 25 A. I'm saying a combination. I said —my 746 748 1 A. No. no. not that statement. I mean, many 1 exact words were: 2 lawyers could be described that way. That would not 2 "MR. DERSHOWTTZ: So they and the woman 3 contribute to that. I myself have been described 3 got together and contrived and made this up: 9 that way. 4 Yes. 5 Q. Okay. So is there anything about the 5 Q. Right. So. when I asked you what formed 6 communications that you had with this lawyer in 6 the basis of your public statement that the lawyers 7 Arizona that in any way contributed -- 7 were involved in contriving and making this up. you 8 A. Yes. 8 gave me a list of things. and one is -- 9 Q. Let me just finish the statement so that 9 A. That's right. 10 we have a clean record. 10 Q. — Paul Cassell's reputation -- 11 -- contributed to your confidence in 11 A. That's right. 12 making the public statement in January 5.2015. that 12 Q. — that was supported by various people 13 Paul Cassell contrived or assisted in making up the 13 telling you various things. 19 allegations? 14 A. That's right. 15 A. First let me be very clear that that was 15 Q. One of those things being Paul Cassell is 16 an expression of an opinion. 16 a zealot. And so that's where we are right now in 17 Q. What was? Be clearer. 17 understanding who these people were, when you got 18 A. "So they sat down together. the three of 18 this information. And that's what you're describing 19 them, these clearly disbarrablc. unprofessional 19 for me, right? 20 lawyers." when you read it in context, it's clear I 20 A. That's correct. But I'm saying to you 21 wasn't saying I was there. I wasn't saying I was saw 21 that it was the totality of circumstances. For 22 it. I was giving a scenario. They profiled me. 22 example. if a very imminent lawyer with a superb 23 they did this, so they sat down together and they 23 reputation had made serious allegations. I would 29 made up this story. 24 be — I mean. I knew in this case they were totally 25 So it was an expression-- 25 false, but if I didn't know. if I didn't have that 26 (Pages 745 to 748) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602464 749 751 1 personal information. I would be more reluctant to 1 confidence in the public statement you made about 2 express this opinion. 2 him on January 5,2015? 3 But knowing everything I knew. that the 3 A. Yes. 4 allegations were false, that there had to be 4 Q. Okay. Who are those individuals? 5 financial motive, that there was so much S A. But I want to be very clear. I'm talking 6 specificity. that it was written by the lawyers 6 about individuals who I spoke to about Paul Cassell. 7 themselves, that they didn't put it under seal, that 7 who gave me information that formed part of the 8 they were trying to get the story out and circulated 8 large picture. 9 as widely as possible. all of that combined with 9 Q. You've been clear on that. I get that. 10 their reputation led me to the opinion that this was 10 A. One of them is Akhil Amar. who is a 11 the scenario. 11 professor at Yale Law School. 12 By the way. I think it was partial 12 Q. When did you talk to Akhil Amar? 13 scenario. I think as I've said before, there were 13 A. Shortly after this happened. Again, my 14 dual motivations. One motivation was to profile me 14 recollection is he called me because he was so 25 to try• to — that was a cover. really. 15 shocked. 16 MR. EDWARDS: Object. Move to strike as 16 Q. And would that have been some date prior 17 nonresponsive. 17 to January 5,2015? 18 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Yeah. I think 18 A. 1 don't remember for sure. But it's —1 19 we've gone far afield. So granted. Move 19 don't remember for sure. 20 forward. 20 Q. Can you tell me what the substance of the 21 BY MR. EDWARDS: 21 conversation was that you had with Akhil Amar about 22 Q. What did the former President of Ecuador 22 Paul Cassell? 23 tell you about Paul Cassell? 23 A. Well. how shocked he was that Cassell 24 A. Again, all I remember is we had a 24 would make a statement like this. And that he would 25 conversation. You asked me who did I have a 25 try to talk to Cassell and persuade him that it 750 752 1 conversation with about Paul Cassell. My 1 couldn't be true. And that it would be a difficult 2 recollection is that he did not use the term 2 conversation. That's my basic recollection. 3 "zealot" or anything like that. He just gave me 3 Q. Did Akhil Amar tell you that he thought 4 information. 9 highly of Paul Cassell? 5 Q. What Information did he give you? 5 A. No. 6 A. That he is stubborn. that he would be 6 Q. Did he give you positive or negative 7 difficult to get to change his views, that kind of 7 information about Paul Cassell or Paul's reputation? 8 thing. in general. But all of it contributed to an 8 A. I would say it was neutral but consistent. 9 image. 9 You have to know something about Akhil Amar. Akhil 10 I had never met Paul Cassell. I didn't 10 Amer is the nicest person in the world. I've never 11 know who he was other than having read some of his 11 heard him say anything negative about any human 12 articles. But then I did a lot of research on him 12 being on the face of the earth. and I would never 13 before I made these statements. 13 expect him to say in specific terms anything 14 Q. Okay. My question that's pending is, what 19 negative about anybody. But the information he 15 did the former President of Ecuador tell you? 15 provided me helped form the total picture that I had 16 A. That he was stubborn and probably would he 16 of Mr. Cassell. 17 difficult to get him to change his mind. 17 Q. Other than telling you that Mr. Cassell 18 Q. Okay. Is there anyone else other than the 18 was stubborn, what other information did he provide 19 people that you have already either identified -- 19 you which helped to form the total picture? 20 A. Yes. 20 A. I think we discussed his views of 21 Q. -- by name or described for me that gave 21 victimization. his views of false confessions. We 22 you information -- 22 had a general discussion about his academic 23 A. Yes. 23 standing. about his general reputation. about -- 24 Q. -- about Paul Cassell that contributed to 29 Q. When you says "his," you're speaking of 25 your belief about his reputation that gave you a 25 Paul Cassell's or Akhil Amar's? 27 (Pages 749 to 752) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602465 753 755 1 A. No. about Paul Cassell's. This is a 1 you that Paul Cassell's character or reputation 2 conversation with Akhil Anur. 2 were such that he would place assertions or 3 Q. Okay. What specifically, then, was the 3 allegations in pleadings in which Paul Cassell 4 substance of that conversation about Paul Casscll's 4 did not believe? 5 reputation that's helped to form the basis of the 5 "My best recollection -- again this could 6 big picture? 6 be him, it could be others. but it was partly 7 A. The conclusion that I drew from it was 7 from what I spoke to him about is that Paul 8 that he with a zealot and he was stubborn and that 8 Cassell does not believe that any woman is 9 he was an idealoguc. and that he was rigid in his 9 capable of lying about sexual assault: that 10 views. But, again, this is a conclusion that I 10 when a woman makes a claim of sexual assault. 11 reached on the basis of all the conversations I had. 11 it must be believed and it must be credited 12 I reached out, some people reach out to me. and 12 without regard to the evidence. 13 these are the kinds of things that we discussed. 13 "That was certainly the impression I came 14 Q. Did Akhil Amar, in speaking about Paul 14 away with from my various conversations with a 15 Cassell and his character and his reputation, tell 15 range of people. And that was a pretty uniform 16 you that he feels Paul Cassell must genuinely 16 view that I got from the people around -- the 17 believe in the allegations? 17 people I spoke to." 18 A. No. 18 BY MR. EDWARDS: 19 Q. Did he tell you or convey to you that Paul 19 Q. Is there anything more about your 20 Cassell did not believe in the allegations of this 20 conversation with Akhil Amor that contributed to 21 claim? 21 your overall perspective on the reputation of Paul 22 A. No. 22 Cassell, other than what you've already told me? 23 Q. Did Akhil Amin- convey to you that Paul 23 A. Not that I can now think of. 24 Cassell's character or reputation were such that he 24 Q. How many times did you speak with Akhil 25 would place assertions or allegations in pleadings 25 Amar about Paul Cassell? 754 756 1 in which Paul Cassell did not believe? I A. I think twice. 2 A. My best recollection -- again, this could 2 Q. And are you able to say with any certainty 3 be him it could be others. but it was partly from 3 whether or not it was before or after January 5. 4 what I spoke to him about is that Paul Cassell does 4 2015? 5 not believe that any woman is capable of lying about 5 A. I can't say. 6 sexual assault: that when a woman makes a claim of 6 Q. Did you ask Akhil Anne to reach out to 7 sexual assault, it must be believed and it must be 7 Paul Cassell? 8 credited without regard to the evidence. 8 A. I did. 9 That was certainly the impression I came 9 Q. Other than Akhil Amar% is there anyone 10 away with from my various conversations with a range 10 else that you haven't already described or named 11 of people. And that was a pretty uniform view that 11 that gave you Information about Paul Cassell? 12 I got from the people around -- the people I spoke 12 A. Okay. let me be very clear. Pm not 13 to. 13 including people with whom I have a privilege, fm 14 MR. EDWARDS: We're getting a little 14 not including people that have a privilege with me. 15 feedback on the phone. 15 And I want to be very clear about this. I 16 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: On the phone. 16 am not now allowed to describe any conversations 17 there is some background -- 17 with the person who Sigrid McCawley is now here on 18 VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going off the record. 18 behalf of. So. I don't want a negative inference to 19 The time is II:21 a.m. 19 be drawn. 20 (Recess was held from 11:21 a.m. until 11:27 a.m.) 20 I would like to comment. if I could, about 21 VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the record. 21 a person who fm not allowed to comment about. But 22 The time is II:27 a.m. 22 I want the recap' to be -- I don't want -- I have to 23 MR. EDWARDS: Can you read back for me the 23 answer your question completely. 24 last question and the last answer? 24 Q. Okay. But this is all -- all of thew 25 COURT REPORTER: 'Did Akhil Amar convey to 25 questions are about the basis that gave you the 28 (Pages 753 to 756) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602466 757 759 1 confidence to make the January 5,2915 statement 1 my view. invade the privilege without 2 that provided you information on Paul Cassell. 2 identifying the people. And so based on the 3 A. I misunderstood. I think your last 3 objection. I will grant the objection pending a 4 question said the universe of information about Paul 4 reservation to review the entire issue on the 5 Cassell. That's why I had to put that on the record 5 privilege, as we've done before. 6 involving the sealed -- 6 So move on. I think right now. move on on 7 Q. Maybe it did, so let me just say — let me 7 this — on the question because you specified 8 break this down. 8 the question. 9 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: That's how I 9 BY MR. EDWARDS: 10 understood it. 10 Q. Did privileged communications assist in 11 BY MR. EDWARDS: 11 forming your opinions about Paul Cassell? 12 Q. Let's break this down into the people that 12 MR. SCOTT: Same objection. same 13 you were describing you spoke to prior to making the 13 instruction. 14 public statement that we've been talking about, and 14 MR. INDYKE: Same objection. 15 then we'll expand it beyond that time. 15 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: And the same 16 A. Okay. 16 ruling as the previous question. 17 Q. Okay. So, in addition to Akhil Amar. who 17 BY MR. EDWARDS: 18 is next on the list? 18 Q. Are we clear that I'm not asking what 19 A. You want rte to repeat the names I gave you 19 those opinions are or the names of the individuals? 20 or -- 20 Just arc there individuals — is there privileged 21 Q. No, no, outside of the people we've 21 communications that form the basis of your -- that 22 already discussed? 22 help to form the basis of your opinions? Just ycs 23 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Who is next on 23 or no. IS there privileged communication -- 24 the list for what? 24 MR. SCOTT: Same objection. same 25 25 instruction. 758 1 BY MR. EDWARDS: 1 MR. INDYKE: Same objection. same 2 Q. Who is next on the list of people that you 2 instruction. 3 spoke with about Paul Cassell or his reputation that 3 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLk Here's -- let me 4 gave you the confidence to make the public statement 4 just — so I'm clear. we may — it may be me or 5 that you made about Paul Cassell on January 5.2015? 5 it may be Judge Lynch who visits this issue. 6 A. Outside of people within the various 6 and it may very well be that he will have to -- 7 privileges we've talked about. 7 the witness will have to answer these questions 8 Q. Well, I want to know are there people 8 after subsequent argument. 9 within the privileges that we spoke about -- 9 However, because the question defines the 10 MR. SCUFF: Objection. 10 topic and the matter that you're inquiring so 11 BY MR. EDWARDS: 11 specifically without addressing the 12 Q. Are there people within the privilege that 12 individuals, but seeking the individuals whom 13 spoke to you that helped to form your opinions or 13 he shares whatever privilege is being asserted, 14 give you confidence to make the public statement 19 since the topic is so specifically defined in 15 that you made in January 5,2015? 15 your question. I think it would invade the 16 MR. SCOTT: Objection. work product — 16 privilege. as I understand it. 17 MR. INDYKE: Objection -- 17 And until we reach the overall decision on 18 MR. SCOTT: -- attorney-client. I'm 18 whether privileged information of this type can 19 instructing him not to answer that question. 19 be -- to force the witness to answer it — 20 MR. EDWARDS: I'm not even asking for the 20 require an answer from the witness, then I 21 identities first. rm asking am there people. 21 would like to move on. 22 MR. SCOTT: I'm not — objection. 22 MR. SCAROLA: So that our position is 23 MR. INDYKE: Objection. Same objections. 23 clear, there is no legal issue to address 24 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Because you've 24 unless there are materials over which a 25 defined the topic so specifically. it would. in 25 privilege is being asserted. 29 (Pages 757 to 760) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602467 761 763 1 We arc entitled to know whether there are 1 you Paul Cassell. as a professor, used Alan 2 materials over which a privilege is being 2 Dershowitz as an object of hatred in his class? 3 a.ssetted. and we am entitled to know the 3 A. I heard that from some students. Welk 4 nature of the privilege that is being asserted 4 no. let mc be clear. From a student. And I have no 5 so that we can make a determination as to 5 recollection of the name. But a student called me 6 whether we even want to raise a legal issue. 6 and told me that a friend of his who was in Paul 7 There's no legal issue to raise unless 7 Cassell's class remembered that he went after me on 8 we've identified whether there is privileged 8 the -- two issues: on the death penalty and on the 9 material. 9 exclusionary rule, and used mc as a kind of object 10 That's what were attempting to do. to 10 example of. you know, a wrong-headed person. That 11 establish for the record whether there is 11 he seemed to -- at least the student got a 12 privileged material and the nature of privilege 12 perception that he seemed to have an animus towards 13 being asserted without getting into the 13 me. But I have to tell you that did not figure 14 substance of any privileged communication. 14 into -- that did not contribute to my conclusions 15 SPECIAL MASTER P0ZZUOLI: I -- well taken. 15 about that. I'm controversial: I know that. 16 But my ruling will stand for now. 16 Q. Didn't we get here by me asking what did 17 BY MR. EDWARDS: 17 contribute, and you told me. amongst a laundry list 18 Q. Did you receive any e-mails about Paul 18 of other things, that you were told that Paul 19 Cassell or his reputation? 19 Cassell aced Alan Dershowitz as an object of hatred? 20 A. Not that I remember, but I can check. 20 A. I may have thought about that. But as I 21 MR. INDYKE: Sante objection. 21 think about it now. I don't think I really factored 22 BY MR. EDWARDS: 22 that in in any significant way into my assessment. 23 Q. Did you receive any e-mails about the 23 Q. So that I understand the source of that 24 reputation of Brad Edwards? 24 information, as you sit here today, it is a person 25 MR. INDYKE: Sante objection. same 25 identify friend who you cannot told you that a of 762 1 instruction. I that person that you cannot identify -- 2 MR. SCOTT: Again. if they're in the 2 A. That's right. 3 context of privileged materials. 3 Q. -- told you that -- 4 A. Outside -- outside all of the privileges. 4 MR. SCAROLA: Told him. 5 I will have to check. I don't recall. 5 BY MR. EDWARDS: 6 BY MR. EDWARDS: 6 Q. -- told him that Paul Cassell used you as 7 Q. Did you receive any smalls about the 7 an example on two issues. the death penalty and 8 reputation of Jack Scarola? 8 exclusionary rule, in his class? 9 MR. INDYKE: Same objection. same 9 A. And more generally about my approach to 10 instruction. 10 criminal law. That's why I would never make a 11 A. I don't recall. 11 statement like that publicly. 12 BY MR. EDWARDS: 12 You're asking me what was in my mind. 13 Q. Did you receive any smalls about the 13 That was a factor in my mind. When you get a phone 14 reputation of Sigrid McCawley? 14 call about somebody. you dont forget it. it stays 15 MR. SCOTT: Relevancy. 15 in your mind and it becomes a small pan. 16 MR. INDYKE: Same objection. same 16 As I now think about it. I think too small 17 instruction. 17 a part to even factor into my decision. I don't 18 A. No. I've always had a very high regard 18 think I really let that weigh on my decision. It 19 for Sigrid McCawley prior to these allegations. 19 may have weighed on my attitude toward Paul Cassell. 20 which is why I was so shocked that she would lend 20 but I don't think it would have affected my decision 21 her name to these false allegations. 21 as to whether he would do what I said he did — what 22 BY MR. EDWARDS: 22 I believe he did. 23 Q. I don't believe there's any question 23 Q. What arc the names -- other than those 24 pending. 24 that you have identified or described for us -- what 25 Who are the individuals by name that told 25 are the other names in addition to those that you 30 (Pages 761 to 764) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602468 765 767 I have described or named for us that gave you 1 here now, but she's one of my lawyers and she's 2 information about Paul Cassell? 2 included on my list of lawyers and I regard her as 3 A. As I sic here now. rim sure there are 3 one of my attorneys. 4 many, but I cant identify any specific names, and 4 Q. Is there anyone else that is on the list 5 if I can think of any. I will certainly let you 5 of people other than those that you've either 6 know. 6 described or named already that provided you 7 Q. Can you tell me the additional names other 7 information about Paul Cassell? 8 than Akhil Amar that you communicated with and asked s A. I'm sure there are many, but not that I 9 to communicate with Paul Cassell? 9 can identify now. Well. I can give you one more. 10 A. Nancy Gruner. former federal judge. 10 The BBC reposer who interviewed me showed me an 11 MR. SCOTT: Again, not privileged. 11 e-mail from Paul Cassell in which Paul Cassell gave 12 A. Well. it's complicated. At the timer 12 her a list of questions to ask me. while claiming 13 asked her to reach out. I did not regard her as my 13 that he was not speaking to the media. 14 attorney. Since that time, she has offered to help 14 That led me to conclude that he was a 15 represent me. So we're now in a privileged 15 liar. And that happened very early on. That he was 16 relationship. 16 absolutely a liar because he categorically stated 11 But when I called and asked her — I think 17 that he had never spoken to the media, never would 18 she called me. I had no idea who knew Paul Cassell. 18 speak to the media. And here I had an e-mail from 19 but a number of people called and said. what can we 19 him showed to me by BBC that proved he was 20 do? Can we call Paul? How can he be doing this? 20 absolutely lying through his teeth. So I concluded 21 This is — even Senator Hatch offered to call Paul 21 that he is a liar who has no concern for the truth. 22 Cassell because he couldn't believe -- he said. I 22 Q. When did Paul Cassell categorically deny 23 cannot believe this allegation against you. I know 23 ever speaking to the media? 24 you. I know you to be a very honorable man. I 24 A. In his press releases where he says, we do 25 cannot believe that allegation against you. And Fm 25 not speak to the media, we've never spoken to the 766 768 1 going to call Paul Cassell. 1 media. only Dershowitz speaks to the media lying by 2 BY MR. EDWARDS: 2 omission and by commission, failing to state that he 3 Q. Okay. Going back to Nancy Gertner. when 3 was trying to get publicity through ABC. that he was 4 did you establish an attorney-client relationship 4 pleading with ABC and he was trying to sell her 5 with Nancy Gainer? 5 story to tabloids. So he was lying by omission. 6 A. Sometime thereafter. 6 lying by commission. and so were you. 7 Q. Sometime? 7 Q. Have you produced -- do you have a list 8 A. After she called Cassell, and Cassell 8 from BBC or — reporter or anyone else that 9 would not do anything to try to resolve the matter. 9 indicates a list of questions or whatever it is 10 Q. Okay. Do you know when it was that you 10 you're testifying to -- 11 asked Nancy Gertner to reach out to Paul Cassell? 11 A. Yes. 12 A. Shortly after the allegations. Again, she 12 Q. — that came from somebody other than Paul 13 called me. and she just couldn't believe that 13 Cassell? 14 anybody would be making these allegations. 14 A. I don't understand that question. 15 Q. Was it before or after the statement that 15 Q. Well, you just threw in "and so were you." 16 we have discussed that was made by you on the Don 16 and we're only talking about a list of questions 17 Lemon show on January S. 2015. that you asked Nancy 17 that you know about from the BBC. 18 Gertner to reach out to Paul Cassell? 18 MR. SCOTT: I'm not sure — can you 19 A. I don't remember. It could have been 19 rephrase the question so we have it clear? 20 before. But it might have been after. I just dent 20 MR. EDWARDS: Sure. 21 remember. 21 BY MR. EDWARDS: 22 Q. And is there a formal memorialization of 22 Q. I asked for you to identify anyone else 23 the attorney-client relationship between yourself 23 that provided you information about Paul Cassell 24 and Nancy Gertner? 24 that helped to form your opinions. Your answer was. 25 A. I don't know the answer to that as we sit 25 a BBC reporter. Do you know her name? 31 (Pages 765 to 768) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602469 769 771 1 A. You must. because you know its a her. 1 understand exactly what you're saying to this BBC 2 Q. I'm asking you, do you know her name? 2 reporter that you have identified that provided you 3 A. I provided it and we have — it's pm of 3 information that helped to support your opinions 4 the record. 4 about Paul Cassell. S Q. As you sit here today, do you know her 5 A. •That's right. 6 name? 6 Q. Okay. That person provided you an e-mail 7 A. No. I don't know the names of 'Toners. 7 or you saw through this person an e-mail that Paul 8 Q. Okay. And the thing that that BBC 8 Cassell — that evidenced questions that Paul 9 reporter whose name you do not know right now -- 9 Cassell wanted you to be asked? 10 A. But I can get it for you. 10 A. It was my recollection it was an c-null 11 Q. I'm just describing the reporter since you 11 from Paul Cassell to the producer is my 12 don't know her name. The reporter whose name you do 12 recollection. 13 not recall right now provided you an e-mail -- 13 Q. Okay. In addition -- so my question 14 A. No. 14 that's pending is., in addition to the questions. is 15 Q. Showed you an e-mail? 15 there anything in the body of that e-mail or that 16 A. No. 16 you were told by this reporter that Paul Cassell 11 MIL SCOTT: Let him ask the question. 17 spoke or communicated with the BBC beyond the 18 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Let hint finish. 18 content of those questions? 19 BY MR. EDWARDS: 19 A. Yes, the reporter told Inc that Paul 20 Q. I understood your testimony, and please 20 Cassell had spoken to him, and my recollection is 21 correct me if I'm wrong, that this BB(' reporter 21 that they had spoken and then he sent him a 22 showed you an e-mail of questions from Paul Cassell 22 follow-up e-mail is my recollection. Again, it's a 23 that were requested by Paul Cassell to be directed 23 year ago. And this was at the time that Paul 24 to you. 24 Cassell was saying and you were saying through your 25 A. Yes. But it done by 25 lawyers and certainly trying to convey the was not the reporter. 770 772 1 It was done by the producer. It was a man producer. 1 impression that you was trying to keep this case 2 And he told me and showed me on his BlackBerry or 2 out of the media and that it was I who was putting 3 his iPhone the questions that Paul Cassell had asked 3 it into the media. while it turns out that 4 him to ask me. 4 secretly -- 5 Q. In addition to the questions that Paul 5 MR. EDWARDS: Object. Move to strike as 6 Cassell had asked him to ask you. is it your 6 nonresponsive. 7 testimony that Paul Cassell spoke to the media about 7 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Arc you almost 8 the allegations or the facts as Paul understood them 8 finished? 9 in the case? 9 A. Almost done. 10 A. Yes. I don't about spoke. but we know that 10 Secretly you were communicating with the 11 he -- yes. we know he spoke to ABC. I think I can 11 media and trying very hard to get them to cover this 12 give you the names of the people he spoke to there. 12 story in a way negative to me. 13 Jim Hill. 13 BY MR. EDWARDS: 19 MR. SCAROLA: Pardon me. I think there's 14 Q. Was this a reporter or a producer that was 15 a feedback problem again. 15 telling you this information? 16 MR. SIMPSON: On the phone. there seems to 16 A. Producer. 17 be a feedback problem. 17 Q. And what is the name of that producer, if 18 MR. SCAROLA: Cross talk. 18 you know? 19 MR. INDYKE: Do you know if its coining 19 A. We can find that out. But I'm sure you 20 from Darren Indyke or another phone? 20 have the e-mail. rm sure Cassell has the e-mail. 21 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: There's no way 21 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Do you know? 22 to know. 22 A. I don't know the name of the producer. 23 MR. SIMPSON: It's not there now. 23 BY MR. EDWARDS: 29 BY MR. EDWARDS: 24 Q. And what was it that this producer told 25 Q. [want to limit this so that I can 25 you that Paul told him? 32 (Pages 769 to 772) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602470 773 775 1 A. To please ask me very critical and hard 1 reached that 1 was guilty. So I can draw a 2 questions. And I assumed — this is an 2 reasonable inference that he was told that by Paul 3 assumption -- that the reason the BBC may have 3 Cassell. 4 called me was they were put on to it by Paul 4 Q. Did the producer tell you that he was told 5 Cassell. who urged them to call me. S anything beyond "ask Alan Dershowitz these 6 Q. My question. if we back up a few, though. 6 questions"? 7 is beyond the substance of the questions from Paul 7 A. The producer told me that he had other 8 ()melt, do you have information that Paul Cassell 8 communications with Cassell. But beyond that. I had 9 spoke to them? 9 to draw my own inferences. 10 A. Yes. 10 Q. Without you drawing your own inferences, 11 Q. Okay. And I think, as you said, yes. 11 did the producer tell you the substance of those 12 because I talked to this reporter. What did the 12 other communications with Paul Cassell beyond "ask 13 reporter tell you that Paul Cassell said beyond the 13 Alan I krshon itz these questions"? 14 substance of those questions? 14 A. No. 15 A. It's the producer. 15 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: We're beginning 16 Q. Producer. 16 to approach a break. so as your deposition -- 17 A. Not the reporter. The repeater was part 17 find a time in the next 10 or 15 minutes or so. 18 of the conversation, too. but I think the 18 MR. EDWARDS: I think this is as good a 19 conversations had been between Paul Cassell and the 19 time as any. 20 producer. 20 711E WITNESS: I'm happy to go on. 21 The conclusion I drew from our 21 MR. SIMPSON: Take a break. 22 conversation was that Paul Cassell had reached out 22 MR. SCOTT: Take a break. 23 to BBC and asked to have them ask me hard questions. 23 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: 1 don't want to 24 and the questions were all very critical and hard 24 interrupt a flow. 25 questions designed to make her story believable. 25 MR. EDWARDS: This is good stopping point. 774 776 1 And that the producer then responded to 1 and then we'll take a break and be back. 2 Cassell and said send me an c-mail. and Cassell sent 2 VIDEOGRAPHER: We're going off the recccd. 3 an e-mail with the questions listed. And they. in 3 The time is II:52 a.m. 4 fact, asked me those questions. 9 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: You can go off 5 Q. Okay. 5 the record but stay on the record. 6 A. But the point of my answer is that at the 6 With t‘spuct to the issues over privilege. 7 same time, you. Mr. Scuola. and Mr. Cassell were 7 and as it appears that this witness may be held 8 communicating to the press -- 8 over beyond today. I would ask the parties to 9 MR. EDWARDS: Object and move to strike as 9 discuss and see if you can agree among 10 nonresponsive. 10 yourselves how you wish. if you wish, to 11 SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: I would agree 11 address those issues so that whether it's in 12 with that and grant the motion. Go ahead and 12 front of me or in front of Judge Lynch. so that 13 ask your next question. 13 in several weeks or whenever he's reset. should 14 BY MR. EDWARI)S: 19 there need to be a readdressing of questions 15 Q. Beyond the communication from Paul Cassell 15 that were not answered because of that issue. 16 to a producer, ask Alan Ikrshow itz these questions. 16 just as I'm not foretelling — don't take 17 is it your understanding that Paul Cassell 17 anything in it. but just for purposes of 18 communicated anything further to that producer? 18 scheduling• we probably ought to try to deal 19 A. Yes. 19 with -- I would suggest that the parties try to 20 Q. Okay. What did the producer tell you that 20 deal with that issue between now and the next 21 Paul Cassell said to him beyond "ask Alan Dershowitz 21 time Mr. Dershowitz sits for deposition. 22 these questions"? 22 MR. SCAROLA: That absolutely makes sense. 23 A. Well. the producer certainly came to the 23 And we will be filing, after we have received 24 interview having been. it seemed to me, briefed by 29 the transcript an appropriate Motion to 25 Cassell and came with a conclusion that he had 25 Compel. and 1 think that it is best that the 33 (Pages 773 to 776) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602471 777 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Court deal with that motion. SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: fm -- MR. SCAROLA: I think it's beyond the scope of the responsibilities that have been agreed to be resolved by you. and that would be our request. SPECIAL MASTER POZZUOLI: Okay. I wanted to raise that just from the purposes of just an administrative standpoint. MR. SCAROLA: Yes. Thank you very much. (Recess was held from 11:54 a.m. until 1:04 p.m. after which the proceedings continued in Volume 6.) CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF BROWARD I. KIMBERLY FONTALVO. Registered Professional Reporter. do hereby certify that I was authorized to and did stenographically report the foregoing videotape continued deposition of ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ; pages 648 through 455: that a review of the transcript was requested: and that the transcript is a true record of my stenographic notes. I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a relative, employee, attorney, or counsel of any of the parties. nor am I a relative or employee of any of the parties' attorneys or counsel connected with the action, nor am I financially interested in the action. Dated this 14th day of January. 2016. KIMBERLY FONTALVO. RPR. 778 CERTIFICATE OF OATH STATE OF FLORIDA COUNTY OF BROWARD I. the undersigned authority. certify that ALAN M. DERSUOWITZ personally appeared before me and was duly sworn on the 13th day of January. 2016. Signed this 17th day of I 2016. i lAdaT4kitim KIMBERLY FONTAL E. RPR. CLR Notary Public. State of Florida My Commission No. IT 226848 Expires: 7/12/2019 January 14.2016 COLE SCOTT& KISSANE PA Dadeland Centre II . Suite 1400 9150 South Dadeland Roulet:nil MUMS. Honda 33156 BY. TI MIAS EMERSON SCOTT. JR.ESQ. thorn/. stottecadeptcom Re: Bradley Edwards. et al.. v. Alan NE Ikrshowits Please take notice that on the 12th day of January. 2016. you gate your deposition in the shoe came. At that time. you did not waive your signature The above -addres.sed attorney has ordered a copy of thus transom and will make anangemcnu with you to read their copy. Please execute the Eilaln Sheet. AbiCh cao be found at the back of the transcript. and have it returned to us fix distribution to all pante% If you doom read and sign the deposition within a reasonable amount of unit. the anginal which has alreadybeen forwartkd to the ordering attorney. may be filed with the Clerk of the Court. If you wish to waive your signature now. please sign your name in the blot at the bottom of this Icon and return to the address listed below. Very truly run. KIMBERLY IONTALVO. RPR. CLR Phipps Reporting. Inc. 1551 Forum Place Bulldog/200k Suite E West Palm Beach. Honda 33401 I do hereby waive my signature. ALAN M. DERSIIDWITZ 780 34 (Pages 777 to 780) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602472 781 ERRATA SHEET DO NOT WRITE ON IRANSCRIIT - EATER CHANGES HERE In Re: BRADLEY EDWARDS. ET AL. V. ALAN M. DERSHONITZ Case No.: ALAN M. DERSHOWI12 January 12.2016 PAGE LINE CHANGE REASON Under tenable of rebury. I declare that I haw read the foregoing doeurrent and that the Lun Mated all dare Mit Uwe ALAN M. 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beyond (15) 679:24 680:7 652:14 calling (2) beginning (3) 652:9 658:9 680:25 681:16 broke (1) 686:25 719:21 655:15 742:8 681:20 687:9 682:6 683:12 681:5 calls (9) 775:15 757:15 771:17 684:18 685:1 brought (1) 654:3,16,23 behalf (14) 773:7,13 685:16,19,22 696:2 655:20 667:12 649:2,8 650:3,7 774:15,21 686:5,21 687:9 BROWARD (3) 671:4 696:15 652:12,15,18 775:5,8,12 689:2 691:8 648:1 778:5 721:13 732:6 652:22 654:22 776:8 777:3 694:8,19 779:4 capable (2) 657:7,10,11 big (1) 695:11,21 Building (1) 754:5 755:9 712:5 756:18 753:6 697:12 698:14 780:19 capacity (1) beings (1) BlackBerry (1) 698:23 700:7 bunch (1) 653:12 676:3 770:2 701:5 703:17 667:12 card (2) belief (8) blank (1) 705:9,15 burdened (1) 679:2 688:16 655:13 675:20 780:15 706:13 707:8 699:23 careful (2) 676:1,21,23 blow (1) 707:18 708:12 687:3 699:16 C 680:25 689:7 694:3 709:3,9 710:20 case (33) CACE (1) 750:25 Blvd (1) 710:24 711:1,3 648:2 654:13 believable (1) 650:8 712:15 713:11 648:2 656:9 665:11 773:25 body (1) 714:15 716:6 calendar (2) 668:14 671:6,8 believe (17) 771:15 716:20 717:4 695:3,6 672:14 675:5 668:14 684:3 Boies (3) 717:18 718:14 call (21) 697:1,1,3,9 693:3 713:20 650:8 652:20 718:19,19 654:10 658:16 700:23 708:14 741:11 753:17 727:4 719:9,9 720:3 669:15 673:8 709:11,23 753:20 754:1.5 bono (2) 720:4,5.1/.16 681:5,5,5,7,12 710:5.19 www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602476 4 711:17,18,19 714:6 715:16 723:3,20 725:5 734:5 745:21 748:24 770:9 772:1 781:4 cases (8) 656:12 675:20 686:6 694:9 753:15,16,20 754:1,4 755:3 755:8,22,25 756:7,11 757:2 757:5 758:3,5 759:11 761:19 763:1,19 764:6 764:19 765:2,9 765:18,22 certainty (1) 756:2 Certificate (4) 651:7,7 778:1 779:1 certify (3) 778:8 779:7,14 cetera (1) 665:4 711:18 claim (4) 688:10 753:21 754:6 755:10 claimed (1) 713:11 claiming (5) 657:3 735:10 736:3 737:17 747:16 client's (1) 660:20 clients (3) 657:9 664:14 665:6 clippings (1) 677:11 close (3) 695:16 698:9 766:1,8,8,11 chairman (1) 767:12 684:18 686:10 732:24 733:17 766:18 767:7 672:4 clarification (2) 701:13 Cassell (151) 767:11,11,22 challenge (1) 726:11 738:18 closed (1) 648:4 652:6,14 768:13,23 693:22 class (4) 723:10 653:20 654:17 769:22,23 challenging (1) 654:18 763:2,7 CLR (4) 656:3 657:4 770:3,6,7 733:7 764:8 648:20 778:15 658:11 659:22 771:4,8,9,11 change (4) classes (1) 779:22 780:18 660:15,19 771:16,20,24 665:7 750:7,17 744:14 coerce (1) 661:10 662:11 772:20 773:5,8 781:7 clean (1) 715:8 663:6,9 665:22 773:8,13,19,22 CHANGES (1) 746:10 coerced (1) 666:3 676:2,24 774:2,2,7,15 781:2 cleaner (1) 715:7 679:24 694:6 774:17,21,25 character (3) 691:7 Cohen (3) 694:20 720:6 775:3,8,12 753:15,24 755:1 clear (23) 724:3 726:17,19 720:13,17,19 Cassell's (7) characterizati... 655:5 660:21,23 COLE (2) 720:20,25 748:10 752:25 664:5 698:12 704:11 649:9 780:2 721:3,5 728:17 753:1,4,24 charge (1) 715:11 722:18 colleague (2) 728:21,23 755:1 763:7 714:8 725:4 730:6 652:20 744:14 729:6,19,21,24 catch (1) charges (1) 739:1,17 combination (1) 730:25 731:10 727:8 722:2 740:19 746:15 747:25 731:19 732:4,7 categorically (2) check (8) 746:20 751:5,9 combined (1) 732:23 733:6 767:16,22 669:12 688:14 756:12,15 749:9 733:10,17 category (2) 688:16 718:10 759:18 760:4 come (5) 734:13,17,20 732:22 734:18 742:14 744:22 760:23 763:4 656:20 661:5 734:23 735:6 cause (1) 761:20 762:5 768:19 727:6,15 741:9 735:11 736:4 780:7 checking (1) clearer (3) coming (2) 737:18 739:25 Centre (2) 721:11 660:24,24 718:9 770:19 740:24 741:18 649:9 780:2 Chicago (1) 746:17 comment (4) 741:22 742:6 certain (3) 733:24 clearly (6) 672:22 721:24 742:22 743:3 668:16 728:16 CIRCUIT (2) 655:10 660:13 756:20,21 743:16,20 733:19 648:1,1 672:13 709:24 comments (1) 744:4,15,20 certainly (14) circulated (2) 719:1 746:19 666:16 745:3,11,12,24 655:11 684:22 747:10 749:8 Clerk (1) commission (3) 746:13 747:15 688:22 701:11 circumstances... 780:13 768:2,6 778:16 747:19 748:15 702:20 703:3 705:12 747:2 client (12) committee (1) 749:23 750:1 710:6 713:17 748:21 664:9,21,25 672:5 750:10,24 715:20 754:9 City (1) 665:7,8 669:25 common (11) 751:6,22,23,25 755:13 765:5 712:5 670:21 738:9 664:8,11,12 752:43.16.17 771:25 774:23 civil (1) 740:15 741:4.5 666:24 704:18 www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602477 5 706:8,19 707:6 729:11 735:24 741:23 conceivably (1) 679:2 concern (2) confidentialit... 722:16 723:19 724:20 725:6 730:21 746:20 762:3 continued (6) conveyed (1) 747:14 convicted (1) communicate ... 654:21 767:21 725:18 648:10 650:1 715:24 765:9 concerning (1) confirmed (1) 652:1 658:8 conviction (8) communicate... 732:17 655:9 777:12 779:9 713:16 714:2,3 688:22 696:23 concisely (1) confused (1) continuing (6) 714:5,8,11,13 765:8 771:17 737:25 714:3 660:6 685:3,10 714:22 774:18 conclude (3) connected (1) 685:25 695:23 convinced (1) communicatin... 686:3 689:1 779:18 695:24 656:23 772:10 774:8 767:14 connection (1) continuum (3) coordination (1) communicatio... concluded (2) 724:22 664:23 665:5,14 657:1 680:24 687:18 698:23 767:20 consequence (2) contribute (4) copy (2) 735:11 736:4 conclusion (27) 674:24 704:1 745:25 746:3 780:8,9 737:18 742:13 661:6 680:19 consider (1) 763:14,17 correct (9) 742:22 759:23 682:11 684:23 726:12 contributed (8) 673:9 715:18 761:14 774:15 686:20 689:7 consideration ... 680:20 684: I I 727:11 728:18 communicatio... 695:14,20 716:1 689:7 746:7,11 731:20 735:1 667:2 674:7,12 696:4 698:13 consistent (8) 750:8,24 738:19 748:20 735:3,5,7,10 698:16,18 660:8 704:25 755:20 769:21 736:3 737:17 709:16 711:8 705:23 724:12 contrived (7) correction (1) 738:8 742:5,23 711:11 714:20 738:24 739:13 694:13,21 720:9 739:6 742:24 743:2 716:21,24 742:3 752:8 720:18 721:6 Correctly (1) 746:6 759:10 717:8 731:1 constantly (1) 746:13 748:3 676:11 759:21 775:8 734:24 735:6 658:19 contriving (1) corroborated ... 775:12 742:4 753:7,10 constitutionall... 748:7 716:11 community (1) 773:21 774:25 747:1 controversial... counsel (11) 695:18 conclusions (1) consult (2) 763:15 712:1 723:23 Compel (1) 763:14 740:6 741:12 conversation (... 724:18,24 776:25 conclusively (1) contact (7) 668:25 677:2,4 725:4 726:9,23 complained (1) 655:13 655:2 713:9,14 686:13,24 740:7 741:12 713:3 concocted (2) 718:18 719:8 687:2 698:6 779:15,17 Complaint (5) 661:1 747:20 720:3,18 708:11 720:23 counsel's (1) 661:20 664:10 conduct (1) contend (1) 730:15 744:12 727:7 670:21 672:21 721:17 723:9 749:25 750:1 countersuit (1) 715:7 conferring (4) contends (1) 751:21 752:2 701:17 complaints (2) 700:20 703:17 709:22 753:2,4 755:20 COUNTY (3) 664:9 712:4 705:8,14 content (3) 773:18,22 648:1 778:5 complete (3) confession (2) 674:12 704:2 conversations ... 779:4 671:14 677:16 732:24 733:17 771:18 677:6 698:17 couple (2) 713:6 confessions (3) contents (2) 701:12 734:22 722:5 727:19 completely (2) 732:8,18 752:21 704:20 736:13 753:11 754:10 course (12) 687:14 756:23 confidence (5) context (13) 755:14 756:16 655:1 658:8 complicated (2) 746:11 751:1 655:24 692:9,11 773:19 672:9,20 675:24 765:12 757:1 758:4,14 692:12,25 convey (4) 674:19 687:2 compound (1) confidential (2) 693:15 696:18 753:19,23 689:4 707:25 689:6 722:24 723:24 713:6 730:5.8 754:25 771:25 712:25 715:19 www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602478 6 715:19 747:9 cut (2) 687:21 692:23 denied (2) 780:22 781:3,4 court (14) 713:3,5 695:1,2 721:13 655:25 709:17 781:25 648:1 653:5 778:10,12 DENNEY (1) Dershowitz's (2) - 1)- 662:9 682:3 779:20 780:6 649:3 723:7,17 684:25 685:14 D (2) days (2) dent (1) describe (8) 689:12 704:8 650:14 651:1 669:18 688:10 728:6 678:25 681:14 726:9 736:2 Dade (1) DC (1) deny (2) 682:4,22 737:16 754:25 679:7 649:19 666:2 767:22 729:12 741:20 777:1 780:13 Dadeland (4) deal (8) Department (3) 745:14 756:16 cover (3) 649:9,10 780:2 693:24,25 710:9 710:18 712:6,9 described (13) 661:22 749:15 780:3 722:9 731:2 depose (1) 686:17 711:10 772:11 Darren (9) 776:18,20 696:20 741:18 742:19 coverage (1) 650:4,5 652:23 777:1 deposed (1) 743:7 745:8 696:11 704:13 723:23 dealing (1) 697:5 746:2,3 750:21 covered (1) 724:15 725:11 722:10 deposition (37) 756:10 764:24 712:11 735:20 770:20 death (3) 648:10 652:5 765:1 767:6 created (1) date (10) 654:20 763:8 655:3,7 658:21 describing (9) 689:8 660:18 666:10 764:7 661:14 662:15 687:10 696:19 credibility (2) 694:24 695:4 December (1) 662:23 664:3 733:2,5,9,21 658:14 670:12 699:8 720:24 660:13 691:7 696:25 748:18 757:13 credible (1) 721:1,2 751:16 decision (4) 697:2 701:14 769:11 661:3 781:25 760:17 764:17 702:9,11,14,19 description (4) credit (1) Dated (1) 764:18,20 702:22 703:1 694:11 731:24 688:16 779:20 declare (1) 722:10,19,21 732:2 734:12 credited (2) David (44) 781:22 722:24,24 descriptions (9) 754:8 755:11 669:9,15 670:4 defamatory (1) 723:3,8,8 731:5,12,21,23 crime (4) 670:24 671:13 692:22 725:19 726:6 731:25 732:1,3 712:18,23,23 677:3,14,19,19 defendant (5) 726:15 727:6 732:14 734:4 721:19 679:14 680:1,2 648:8 649:8 727:22 775:16 designed (1) crimes (1) 680:6,24 681:7 652:15 709:17 776:21 779:9 773:25 663:12 683:12 684:9,9 714:1 780:7,12 detail (2) criminal (8) 684:14,15,17 defendant's (2) Dershowitz (36) 655:12 661:2 694:2 711:17,19 685:14,15,21 711:25 712:4 648:7,11 652:5 details (1) 712:13,17,19 687:13,15,19 defendants (1) 652:7 653:14 702:20 713:15 764:10 687:24 688:3 710:19 653:19 659:21 determination... critical (3) 688:11,18,25 defending (1) 661:9 662:9 761:5 690:24 773:1,24 694:22,25 713:4 693:8,18 determine (1) cross (2) 695:7,10,19 defense (5) 694:12 704:3 706:4 686:25 770:18 696:7 697:10 706:19 717:23 704:14 708:4 developments ... crosstalk (1) 697:22 698:21 735:14 736:8 709:21 723:5 658:10 708:5 698:22 700:6,6 737:22 739:22 740:15 diary (1) culpable (1) Davis (1) defined (2) 740:21 748:2 688:12 679:16 677:7 758:25 760:14 763:2,19 768:1 different (5) current (1) day (16) defines (1) 774:16,21 682:10 707:4 694:6 652:3 660:14,14 760:9 775:5,13 720:13 733:8 currently (2) 663:3 664:3 defrauding (1) 776:21 778:9 734:18 732:23 733:9 669:18 687:20 698:10 779:10 780:5 difficult (3) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602479 7 750:7,17 752:1 781:22 771:22 772:20 671:4,12,16 720:2,3,4,5,12 difficulty (1) documents (1) 772:20 774:2,3 672:6,18 673:1 720:16 721:5 718:9 715:12 e-mails (4) 673:4,21,24 724:10,12 directed (1) doing (4) 761:18,23 762:7 674:2 675:8,13 727:16,23 769:23 657:9 683:21 762:13 675:17,20,22 728:5,11,15 disagree (1) 736:11 765:20 earlier (2) 676:12,16,21 729:5,15 731:3 724:2 Don (8) 714:11,13 676:23 677:7 731:8,17 disbarrable (3) 651:13 688:19 early (2) 677:18 678:2,7 732:10,19 694:5 720:8 688:24 689:14 711:4 767:15 678:13 679:21 734:10 735:4 746:19 691:17 692:3 earn (2) 679:24 680:5,7 738:7 739:21 disclose (2) 693:16 766:16 656:8,13 680:22,25 740:2,9,16,20 667:2 674:8 Donald (1) earned (1) 681:16 682:6 741:5,15,16 disclosed (2) 710:12 656:11 682:13 683:11 744:1 747:15 704:2 709:22 door (1) earth (1) 683:12 684:13 747:19 749:16 disclosing (1) 684:6 752:12 684:18,24 749:21 754:14 674:11 draft (2) easier (2) 685:1,12,16,19 754:23 755:18 disclosure (2) 694:1,12 666:12,14 685:22 686:5,6 757:11 758:1 704:19 736:13 drafted (1) easy (1) 686:15,21 758:11,20 disclosures (1) 655:11 691:18 687:9 689:2,10 759:9,17 724:25 drafting (1) Ecuador (5) 689:13,18 761:17,22,24 discovery (1) 664:8 744:13,18,19 690:3,10,16,25 762:6,12,22 709:23 draw (2) 749:22 750:15 691:14,21 764:5 766:2 discuss (2) 775:1,9 Ed (1) 692:6,21 768:20,21 741:8 776:9 drawing (1) 652:24 693:13 694:8 769:19 770:24 discussed (6) 775:10 education (1) 694:17,19 772:5,13,23 734:16 739:14 drawn (1) 655:6 695:11,16 774:9,14 752:20 753:13 756:19 Edward (2) 696:6 697:12 775:18,25 757:22 766:16 drew (3) 650:13 668:18 697:21 698:14 780:5 781:3 discussion (8) 698:18 753:7 Edwards (231) 698:19,23 Edwards' (2) 673:16,17 705:2 773:21 648:4 652:6,12 699:10 700:7 675:3 695:21 722:13 736:23 dual (1) 652:13 653:16 701:3,5,24 effect (1) 738:3,4 752:22 749:14 653:18,21 702:5,17 707:13 dismissed (5) due (2) 654:5,15 703:15,17 effort (2) 670:23 671:6,9 663:22 709:17 655:19 656:4 705:5,6,9,15 658:13 715:8 699:19 711:19 duly (1) 657:19 658:3.6 706:11,13 efforts (1) distinct (1) 778:10 659:4,15,20,23 707:8,18 708:7 715:24 706:24 dynamic (1) 660:5,16 661:8 708:12 709:1,3 Efron (17) distinguished ... 719:24 661:11 662:4 709:9 710:11 677:14,19 660:12 662:11,16 710:20,24 679:14 680:2 E distribution (1) 663:1,18 664:1 711:1,3 712:15 680:17 684:9 E (3) 780:11 664:15 665:20 713:11,24 684:15 694:22 docket (1) 650:8 651:1 665:22 666:3 714:15 716:6 694:25 695:7 669:12 780:19 666:18,21 716:17,20 695:10,19 doctor (1) e-mail (14) 667:9,15,23 717:4,10,16,18 696:7 697:10 699:18 767:11,18 668:10 669:3 717:21 718:7 697:22 698:22 document (6) 769:13,15,22 669:10,14,16 718:14,19,19 700:7 691:4.6.9,10,16 771:6.7.10.15 670:5.15.19.22 719:7.9,9 either (7) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602480 8 696:2 705:24 710:7 711:6 781:1 ESQ (8) 686:25 example (6) expert (2) 709:12 732:8 fact (12) 656:10,24 719:14 750:19 649:5,11,12,15 668:5 686:4 expertise (2) 657:12 669:24 767:5 649:19 650:5,9 723:6 748:22 732:18 733:7 697:4 702:10 elaborate (2) 780:4 763:10 764:7 Expires (1) 702:13 712:8 664:21 665:1 essentially (1) excerpts (2) 778:17 740:3 747:7.8 emergency (1) 700:17 692:15 711:23 explain (2) 774:4 721:12 establish (2) exchange (1) 663:21 719:16 factor (2) EMERSON (2) 761:11 766:4 715:13 explanation (4) 764:13,17 649:11 780:4 et (3) exclude (1) 718:24 719:17 factored (1) employee (2) 665:4 780:5 725:18 721:8,8 763:21 779:15,16 781:3 excluding (4) explore (1) facts (10) enforcement (3) ethical (3) 724:5 726:17,18 706:1 655:18 686:2 712:24 714:6 664:19,20 665:6 726:19 express (1) 687:10 695:14 715:3 evaluation (1) exclusionary (3) 749:2 697:6 698:18 ENTER (1) 714:19 654:20 763:9 expression (3) 700:5 717:8 781:2 event (3) 764:8 746:16,25 747:1 770:8 781:22 entire (6) 678:20,22 695:1 exculpatory (1) extended (1) failed (1) 692:14,19,22 events (7) 690:24 725:25 654:12 710:17 730:13 654:4,9 671:19 excuse (3) extent (3) failing (1) 759:4 677:22 678:16 658:21 674:20 667:2 680:10 768:2 entitled (5) 680:18 714:4 738:16 684:6 fair (3) 723:20 736:24 everybody (1) execute (1) extortion (1) 666:10 692:20 737:3 761:1,3 692:15 780:9 655:16 693:4 entries (4) evidence (19) execution (1) extreme (1) fake (2) 687:23,25 653:23 654:11 651:8 665:14 686:6 699:17 688:11 695:3 654:13 688:2 exhibit (2) extremist (1) false (13) entry (1) 688:13 699:18 689:10,17 742:2 658:13 660:10 695:6 707:19 708:13 EXHIBITS (1) 689:8 721:9 F Epstein (27) 709:3,9 712:15 651:10 722:2 732:8,18 fabricated (18) 650:3 652:22 713:12 714:15 exist (1) 732:24 733:17 669:25 670:3 714:19 716:7 686:7 654:11 659:23 748:25 749:4 670:22 693:24 716:20 717:4 exists (1) 665:22 666:3 752:21 762:21 694:9,11 754:8 755:12 706:5 675:20 676:1 falsely (1) 695:16 697:8 evidenced (1) expand (1) 676:24 679:24 721:19 698:9 700:24 771:8 757:15 707:18 708:13 far (3) 700:25 701:16 exact (6) expect (1) 709:3,9 712:15 716:22 725:12 704:4,17,18 663:3 666:9,10 752:13 713:11 714:15 749:19 705:10 706:17 670:22 745:6 expected (1) 716:6,20 717:4 federal (4) 717:24 723:24 748:1 656:7 fabricating (1) 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698:11 672:25 676:13 fit (2) form (23) 673:5 674:2 699:21 750:8 679:22 681:20 693:20 694:10 653:25 661:15 675:22 676:22 752:22,23 682:1 689:13 Fl (1) 664:10 685:4,7 679:16 680:7 generalities (2) 691:5 700:14 www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602482 10 704:12 710:10 716:2 719:5,18 775:1 guy (1) 701:6 703:18 718:5 719:13 honorable (1) 765:24 immediately (5) 721:14,20,24 724:15 728:7 699:16 742:2 752:11 hope (1) 722:2 728:25 735:19 737:13 guys (1) 763:3 728:2 imminent (1) 774:12 775:20 710:10 hearing (2) hours (1) 748:22 776:4 712:4 724:19 727:19 immunity (1) H goal (1) heinous (2) human (3) 709:19 727:25 ha (1) 663:12 721:19 673:3 676:3 important (1) going (31) 694:12 held (8) 752:11 658:16 659:19 664:17 hand (4) 660:22 683:8 hundred (1) impression (5) 680:12 681:20 653:6 690:20 722:13,25 721:13 687:6,16 754:9 681:22 682:22 691:24 744:10 726:24 754:20 hundreds (1) 755:13 772:1 683:4,6,9 hang (11) 776:7 777:11 747:11 imprimatur (2) 685:7 689:19 659:17 668:6 help (4) 657:6 658:13 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699:20 746:12 751:2 711:16,18,20 information (... inside (1) 700:24 732:17 751:17 756:3 715:2,18 653:23 655:21 679:14 732:23 748:7 757:1 758:5,15 K 656:14 657:23 Instruct (1) involvement (2) 766:17 778:11 K (3) 658:10 659:20 667:1 681:16 682:6 778:12 779:20 660:6,8 665:13 instructing (3) involving (2) 780:1,6 781:5 649:18 650:4,5 668:9,13 741:1,7 758:19 682:9 757:6 Jeffrey (14) keep (1) 674:15 676:7 instruction (16) iPhone (1) 650:3 652:22 772:1 676:18 679:15 671:2 699:1 770:3 669:25 670:2 KENNETH (1) 680:16 682:8 700:11 701:20 issue (10) 670:21 693:24 649:15 686:17 689:1 702:16 705:17 691:3 714:4 697:8 701:16 Kimberly (5) 696:17 697:5 729:2.9 730:3 725:5 759:4 705:9 706:17 648:20 778:15 www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602484 12 779:6,22 780:18 kind (10) 654:18 661:2 knowledge (7) 658:18 664:8,11 664:12 682:9 713:13 721:22 694:1,7,11 744:7,7 745:2 745:19,23 746:6 748:22 led (9) 655:13 684:23 686:2 689:1 695:14 731:1 730:7 770:25 limitation (1) 730:11 limited (2) 664:12 670:3 knows (4) lawyer-client (... 735:5 749:10 678:6 730:10 687:25 700:25 690:15 691:9 672:23 697:5 767:14 line (3) 706:8 711:15 694:11 744:20 699:5 left (2) 681:19 723:23 750:7 763:9 ksweder@swe... lawyers (71) 690:23 699:11 781:7 kinds (2) 649:16 655:11,11,14 legal (9) lines (3) 696:17 753:13 656:10,11,22 668:8,9,24,25 684:18,22 742:3 I KISSANE (2) 657:1,2 661:1 680:11 736:22 list (19) I (1) 649:9 780:2 662:2 664:12 760:23 761:6,7 666:19 671:14 knew (10) 665:16 664:20,20,24 legitimate (1) 674:1 677:16 655:1,2 656:2,3 lack (1) 665:6,6,9 724:4 678:12 710:18 665:13 669:16 655:6 668:11 671:20 Lemon (10) 718:12 729:24 714:10 748:24 lacks (1) 673:16,17,23 651:13 688:19 748:8 757:18 749:3 765:18 726:4 674:4 675:5,9 688:25 689:5 757:24 758:2 know (60) Lakes (1) 675:12 676:7 689:15 691:17 763:17 767:2,4 666:8 668:19 649:4 677:24,25 692:3 693:6,16 767:12 768:7,9 670:8,13,17,18 large (3) 678:7,10,15,15 766:17 768:16 670:20 674:3 687:16 696:11 678:19,21,21 lend (1) listed (2) 675:14,18 751:8 678:22 680:18 762:20 774:3 780:15 677:16 678:18 larger (1) 681:6 693:7,17 lengthy (1) Listen (5) 678:19 679:13 675:12 693:23 694:5 745:22 672:24 708:22 679:18,19 Las (1) 701:12 720:8 let's (11) 708:23 713:21 688:8 695:5 650:8 722:8 723:4,5 666:17 676:13 731:7 696:13 700:4 latitude (2) 733:2,3,3,4,8 680:3 708:5 listened (1) 707:23,25 660:4 719:15 733:12,15,21 710:9 719:4 747:15 708:1,6 714:12 Lauderdale (2) 734:6 741:17 722:7 728:7 litigants (1) 714:16 723:22 648:18 650:9 741:24 745:8 737:7,13 733:2 733:20 734:9 laundry (1) 745:10 746:2 757:12 litigation (7) 736:22 737:9 763:17 746:20 747:8,9 letter (3) 732:7,17,23 744:25 748:25 law (6) 747:23 748:6 651:8 728:3 733:9 744:8 750:11 752:9 712:23 714:5 749:6 767:1,2 780:15 745:11,22 758:8 761:1,3 715:2 733:12 771:25 level (2) little (1) 763:10,15 751:11 764:10 lawyers' (2) 655:11 693:15 754:14 765:6,23,24 lawsuit (13) 661:19 678:20 Lexington (1) LLP (2) 766:10,25 669:25 709:19 lay (2) 650:4 649:14 650:8 768:17,25 710:16,24,25 655:5 691:4 liar (3) local (1) 769:1,2,5,7,9 711:8 715:5,6 lead (2) 767:15,16,21 696:10 769:12 770:10 715:14,17,20 731:22 742:3 liberal (1) log (1) 770:11,19,22 715:21 716:3 learned (2) 654:19 710:8 772:18,21,22 lawyer (19) 655:17 704:16 lie (2) logic (1) knowing (1) 655:4 660:12 learning (1) 661:3 692:18 715:18 749:3 661:4 668:4 705:13 lied (1) long (7) knowingly (1) 677:10,13,13 leave (2) 656:4 675:2 712:11 654:12 677:14 678:11 727:/.7 limit (2) 713:7 715:22 www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602485 13 715:25 745:22 745:22 look (5) 672:14 679:5 684:25 685:14 690:1 lost (1) 662:5 lot (2) 656:8 750:12 lots (4) 695:11 697:12 698:24 700:8 making (19) 660:21 664:6 666:2,5 669:25 670:22,24 681:15 682:5 719:19,21 720:5,16 740:4 746:12,13 748:7 757:13 658:1,22,25 659:6,12,17 660:1 661:7 662:7,18 663:15,20 664:17 665:15 666:17,25 667:4,8,25 668:6 669:6 670:17 671:3.5 671:10,24 739:10,12,19 740:12,18 741:3,6,11 743:23 749:18 754:16 757:9 757:23 758:24 759:15 760:3 761:15 769:18 770:21 772:7 772:21 774:11 775:15,23 746:1 748:24 Meaning (1) 747:22 media (12) 721:14 767:13 767:17,18,23 767:25 768:1,1 770:7 772:2,3 772:11 meet (3) 688:18 695:7 696:15,15 766:14 672:24 673:19 776:4 777:2,7 708:16 698:10,10 man (4) 674:20 675:6 material (4) meeting (3) lying (7) 654:7 700:4 675:15 676:4 699:4 731:2 681:10,13 655:3 754:5 765:24 770:1 676:11,15 761:9,12 688:13 755:9 767:20 manner (1) 677:12 678:1,5 materials (4) meetings (1) 768:1,5,6 719:16 678:9 680:3,12 709:21 760:24 718:5 Lynch (6) Marcy (2) 681:22 682:1 761:2 762:3 member (1) 705:25 722:17 650:15 652:8 682:19 683:16 matter (21) 672:4 725:7 726:12 mark (2) 683:22 684:1 652:5 670:10 memorializati... 760:5 776:12 689:14 705:3 685:6,11,24 696:12,14,16 766:22 marked (1) 689:25 690:9 696:19,22 memory (10) M 689:16 691:2,18 693:1 697:11,24 662:22 673:8 M (9) Markus (31) 693:3,14 698:4,7 699:12 692:2 703:3,8 648:7,11 778:9 669:9,15 670:4 694:16 695:24 699:13,22 707:24 710:4 779:10 780:5 670:24 671:13 697:16 699:3 701:15,17 712:10 715:15 780:22 781:3.4 677:3,7,19 700:12 701:21 702:7,10 715:25 781:25 679:7 680:1,6 701:25 703:13 722:10 760:10 mention (1) MA (1) 680:17,24 704:6,9,24 766:9 673:11 649:15 681:8 683:12 705:18,21 matters (2) mentioned (5) maintain (1) 684:9,14,17 706:10 708:3 701:1 715:9 678:11 687:3 717:24 685:14,15,22 708:23 710:9 Maxwell (1) 693:7,17 727:1 maintained (1) 687:13,15,19 713:21 716:14 717:25 Meredith (1) 725:25 687:24 688:3 717:12 718:3 McCAWLEY ... 652:20 Maisel (3) 688:11,18,25 719:3,13,18 650:9 652:18,19 merits (1) 653:3,4,13 698:21 700:6 722:7,14 677:5,8 722:21 699:20 major (27) married (1) 723:12 724:6.9 722:23 723:14 met (11) 654:7 666:22 723:18 724:15 725:9 724:13,14 655:2 680:18 667:16 668:19 Martinez (2) 725:14 726:2 725:3 726:16 688:10,14,21 669:17 670:6 650:15 652:8 726:18 727:13 726:25 727:17 688:22 695:9 671:16 672:18 massive (1) 727:21 728:7 756:17 762:14 742:18 743:10 673:5 674:2 721:17 730:4,19 731:7 762:19 743:14 750:10 675:22 676:22 master (142) 731:15 732:12 McCawley's (1) Mexico (1) 681:1,17 682:6 650:13 652:24 735:19,25 724:1 745:21 683:13 684:19 652:25 653:17 736:16,19 mean (7) Miami (2) 685:2,16,23 655:25 656:16 737:2,13 738:5 671:9 672:11,22 649:10 780:3 686:3.21 689:2 657:16.22 738:12 739:5 697:18 699:2 Michael (1) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602486 14 710:17 Micheal (1) 710:17 microscopic (1) 749:14 motive (1) 749:5 motives (1) 726:7 756:10 765:1 767:6 names (47) 666:19,20,22 655:1 657:8 689:4 716:22 716:22 750:10 752:10,12 726:21 noted (1) 667:4 notes (3) 710:4 656:22 667:17,24 764:10 767:17 673:7 718:11 mid (1) move (19) 668:20,21,23 767:17,25 779:13 733:24 655:19,25 671:22 672:12 new (6) notice (1) midwest (1) 662:20 664:15 673:11,14,15 650:5,5 658:10 780:6 733:23 684:15 691:1 674:3 676:3,17 658:10 704:22 number (15) millions (2) 691:10 699:12 676:25 678:17 745:21 667:19 668:3 747:11,11 705:3 717:10 678:23 700:1 News (1) 687:17 689:10 mind (7) 731:3 732:10 703:20 717:17 660:19 703:18,21 672:13 710:14 749:16,19 729:24 731:6,9 newspaper (8) 707:1,5 720:21 744:11 750:17 759:6,6 760:21 731:11,13,19 658:17,18 730:23 732:6 764:12,13,15 772:5 774:9 731:22 732:14 677:11 696:3,7 732:16,22 minute (2) murder (5) 734:1,3,15 697:11,23 735:22 765:19 735:17 737:7 713:16 714:8,11 738:10 739:24 698:3 numerous (4) minutes (2) 714:13,22 740:23 743:19 newspapers (5) 729:11,16 722:6 775:17 mutual (1) 744:2,21 659:10 660:9 741:24 743:17 misconduct (3) 720:21 757:19 759:19 661:22 695:2 NW (1) 712:5 718:20 764:23,25 696:10 649:18 N 719:10 765:4,7 769:7 nicest (1) N (1) O mislead (1) 770:12 752:10 oath (4) 692:15 651:1 Nancy (6) Nicholas (1) misleading (1) name (51) 765:10 766:3,5 653:3 651:7 670:9 690:14 652:8 668:7 766:11,17,24 Nick (1) 692:19 778:1 misunderstoo... 669:2,5,7,8 nature (8) 653:11 object (29) 757:3 672:7,8,9,9,10 686:24 697:8 night (2) 653:25 654:18 money (5) 672:17 673:3 736:15,16,20 728:3,4 655:19 661:15 655:17 656:7,8 675:23 681:20 737:4 761:4,12 non-parties (1) 662:4 664:15 656:12,13 698:20 700:3,4 near (1) 723:25 666:15 669:3 money-grubbi... 701:8 707:5,10 700:18 nonparty (1) 685:4 690:12 656:10 707:12,21,25 necessarily (1) 652:18 690:21 692:4 money-hungr... 708:1,6,8 706:25 nonprivileged ... 695:22 697:14 656:11 710:14,21 neceacary (2) 730:5,8 735:3,7 697:15 698:15 months (3) 717:2,14 719:25 739:16 nonresponsive... 702:3 704:4,19 721:10,10,10 718:10,15 need (8) 655:20 659:5 704:21 717:10 motion (9) 729:23 743:18 665:17 666:8 664:16 690:25 718:1 732:10 691:2 711:25 744:9,11 681:21 693:10 717:11 731:4 749:16 763:2,9 725:8,18 726:3 745:17 750:21 705:24 722:4 732:11 749:17 763:19 772:5 732:13 774:12 762:21,25 723:2 776:14 772:6 774:10 774:9 776:24 777:1 763:5 768:25 negative (5) Notary (1) objecting (3) motions (1) 769:2,6,9,12 752:6,11,14 778:16 659:4 735:17 725:10 769:12 772:17 756:18 772:12 notation (1) 739:13 motivation (2) 772:22 780:15 neutral (1) 688:12 objection (56) 656:3 749:14 named (6) 752:8 note (5) 659:3 666:23 motivations (1) 654:7 677:14 never (12) 711:7,10,12.14 667:4 671:1 www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602487 15 680:14 681:18 681:24 682:16 offered (4) 715:4,13 765:14 766:3,10 769:8 771:6,13 Orrin (1) 744:5 689:20 paralegal (1) 682:18,20 765:21 773:11 774:5 ought (1) 723:20 683:14,17 offhand (1) 774:20777:7 776:18 pardon (2) 684:20 685:4 677:20 Olas (1) outraged (1) 674:9 770:14 685:10,25 office (2) 650:8 679:4 part (17) 690:25 695:23 650:14 701:15 Oliver (1) outrageous (1) 655:16 668:9,24 695:25 698:25 officer (3) 649:14 687:1 699:24 711:11 700:10 701:19 712:24 714:6 omission (2) outside (18) 715:7,21 701:22 702:15 715:3 768:2,5 705:19,20 716:23 717:25 704:12 705:16 offices (3) ones (1) 706:16,18,18 718:21 719:11 705:23 717:20 660:22 686:10 667:19 706:21 707:6 719:23 751:7 717:20 726:22 700:18 opened (1) 707:11,13 764:15,17 729:1,8,25 official (1) 684:5 717:22 727:6 769:3 773:17 730:2 735:21 679:3 operation (5) 729:10 730:20 partial (1) 735:21 738:11 Oh (3) 700:21,22 743:5 757:21 749:12 738:13 740:5,8 658:4 687:20 706:14 707:9 758:6 762:4,4 participated (... 740:25 758:10 699:14 721:18 overall (2) 653:21 654:7 758:16,17,22 okay (68) opinion (12) 755:21 760:17 661:11 662:12 758:23 759:3,3 656:2 657:20 656:23 721:22 overly (1) 666:21 667:15 759:12,14,24 658:7 661:7 721:22 724:10 653:25 668:18 669:17 760:1 761:21 664:2 665:19 724:12,13 overrule (2) 670:5 671:16 761:25 762:9 666:25 669:8 725:2,16 681:24 683:16 672:18 673:4 762:16 669:11 671:13 746:16 747:1 673:25 674:2 P objections (1) 672:16 676:14 749:2,10 675:22 676:22 758:23 677:13 682:25 opinions (6) P.A (3) 681:1 683:13 objects (1) 684:16 689:13 758:13 759:11 649:4,9 780:2 684:19 685:1 719:4 691:22 692:1 759:19,22 P.m (1) 685:16,22 obligations (1) 692:17 693:1 768:24 771:3 777:11 686:3,21 689:2 724:21 693:13 694:16 opponent (1) pace (1) 695:11 697:12 obliged (1) 694:24 698:1 654:20 727:24 698:23 716:8 725:22 699:14 700:5 opposed (2) Page (3) participating (... observed (1) 703:9,9 705:5 733:6 736:22 651:3,12 781:7 684:19 700:8 697:7 707:17 718:8 order (10) pages (3) participation (... obtain (1) 718:15 720:15 655:16 666:7 648:13 651:5 680:7 655:17 721:8 728:9 715:16,18 779:10 particular (4) obtained (2) 730:19 731:5 722:16 725:7 Paid (2) 668:17 716:5,19 709:10,12 731:14,25 725:10726:4,4 688:15,16 743:18 obviously (3) 732:3,16,20 726:5 pain (2) particularly (1) 663:4 699:2 738:21,23 ordered (1) 745:5,24 689:20 726:7 740:17 741:3 780:8 painted (1) particulars (1) occur (1) 741:15 742:12 ordering (1) 654:19 683:2 698:17 743:2,14 746:5 780:13 Palm (3) parties (7) occurred (2) 750:14,18 organized (1) 649:4,5 780:20 723:3 726:7,13 686:13 696:15 751:4 753:3 693:23 paper (1) 776:8,19 offer (1) 756:12,24 original (2) 747:16 779:16 780:11 686:25 757:16.17 660:2 780:12 paragraph (1) parties' (1) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602488 16 779:17 partly (2) 754:3 755:6 partner (2) 764:19 765:2,9 765:18,20,21 766:1,11,18 767:7,11,11,22 734:25 735:12 736:5,12 737:19 743:10 743:11,11,14 persuade (1) 751:25 Phipps (1) 780:18 715:9 768:4 pleadings (9) 663:4,5 664:9 709:10711:3,6 694:8 695:17 768:12,23 743:17,19 phone (17) 711:22 753:25 Party (3) 769:22,23 744:21 747:4 649:12 650:5 755:3 733:4,6,7 770:3,5,7,8 747:11 748:12 653:2 654:3,10 please (26) party's (1) 771:4,7,8,11 748:17 750:19 654:16 667:12 652:10 653:6,12 722:19 771:16,19,23 753:12754:11 688:1 704:13 665:1,18 Paul (135) 772:25 773:4,7 754:12,12 742:17 744:5,7 666:19 668:1,1 648:4 652:6,14 773:8,13,19,22 755:15,16,17 754:15,16 668:1,3,21 653:20 659:22 774:15,17,21 756:13,14 764:13 770:16 671:14 672:2 665:22 666:3 775:2,12 757:12,21 770:20 674:8 679:5 676:24 679:24 Paul's (1) 758:2,6,8,12 phrases (1) 691:8 693:2 694:5,19 720:5 752:7 758:21 759:2 707:4 703:20 719:16 720:17,18,20 penalties (1) 765:19 767:5 physical (1) 730:20 744:2 720:25 721:3,5 781:22 770:12 712:8 769:20 773:1 723:4 728:17 penalty (3) perception (1) picture (4) 780:6,9,14 728:21,23 654:20 763:8 763:12 751:8 752:15,19 PLLC (1) 729:6,19,21,23 764:7 period (2) 753:6 650:4 730:24 731:10 pending (7) 671:19 726:1 piece (1) plot (1) 731:19 732:4,7 683:20 722:17 perjury (1) 682:20 655:16 732:23 733:6 738:14 750:14 781:22 pinpoint (1) plow (1) 733:10,17 759:3 762:24 permitted (2) 672:12 728:8 734:13,16,20 771:14 723:17,25 place (4) plowed (1) 734:23 735:6 people (88) person (29) 714:7 753:25 700:14 735:11 736:4 654:4,23 657:10 655:5 668:7,23 755:2 780:19 Plus (1) 737:18 739:25 666:20,22 669:8 672:17 plaintiff (3) 677:21 740:23 741:18 667:13,18 695:7,9 699:7 651:10 652:13 point (21) 741:22 742:6 668:16,20,22 701:7 707:21 689:16 657:2 660:23 742:22 743:2 671:14,19 708:16 710:12 Plaintiffs (2) 662:1 663:2,8 743:16 744:4 672:13 674:1 710:16 714:14 648:5 649:2 663:10 668:18 745:3,11,12,24 676:17,25 716:19 717:14 plane (1) 670:20,24 746:13 747:14 677:10,24 718:16 742:17 727:8 680:16 681:23 747:19 748:10 682:10 686:6 742:18 743:11 plausible (1) 684:3,3 693:11 748:15 749:23 687:17 696:15 743:15 752:10 661:3 696:9 713:5 750:1,10,24 698:10 699:23 756:17,21 played (7) 721:15 727:14 751:6,22 752:4 700:1 703:19 763:10,24 675:12,19 676:8 738:14 774:6 752:7,25 753:1 703:21 707:2,6 764:1 771:6,7 676:18 678:7 775:25 753:4,14,16,19 711:2 718:4,6 person's (2) 712:11 747:9 police (4) 753:23 754:1,4 718:13 726:14 701:8 717:2 plea (5) 654:12 710:18 755:1,3,7,21 729:11,12,17 personal (2) 693:22,23 715:5 712:5,9 755:25 756:7 730:24 731:13 679:15 749:1 715:13,23 popping (1) 756:11 757:2,4 731:23,24 personally (2) plead (1) 744:11 758:3,5 759:11 732:1,2,4,6,16 709:13 778:9 693:24 portion (2) 761:18 763:1,6 732:22 733:1 perspective (1) pleading (4) 657:16 691:11 763:18 764:6 734:16.19.24 755:21 657:5 664:10 portions (1) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602489 17 692:7 position (11) 665:11 683:19 697:16 699:3 700:12 701:21 701:25 703:13 prejudice (1) 681:24 presence (2) 735:15,23 736:6,8,15,17 736:20 737:20 process (2) 709:18 719:24 produced (3) 723:1,16 724:1 704:6,9,24 697:7 727:7 737:22 738:14 710:5,7 768:7 725:21 730:8 705:18,21 present (5) 738:18,19,20 producer (19) 730:12,17 706:10 708:3 650:12 723:2,8 739:1,7,23,25 770:1,1 771:1 I 737:1 760:22 708:23 710:9 723: I I 724:24 740:22 741:1 772:14,16,17 positive (2) 713:21 716:14 president (6) 741:20 743:6 772:22,24 733:25 752:6 717:12 718:3 672:3 744:13,18 743:12,15 773:15,16,20 possession (5) 719:3,13,18 744:19 749:22 756:13,14 774:1,16,18,20 653:24 655:21 722:7,14 750:15 758:12 759:1,5 774:23 775:4,7 667:12 728:13 723:12 724:6,9 press (2) 760:13,16,25 775:11 728:17 724:15 725:9 767:24 774:8 761:2,4,12 product (13) possessor (1) 725:14 726:2 pretended (1) 776:6 666:24 681:18 674:10 726:18 727:13 656:9 privileged (22) 683:14 704:21 possible (3) 727:21 728:7 pretty (2) 683:15 697:5 719:23 735:18 727:20,24 749:9 730:4,19 731:7 754:11 755:15 699:5 735:2,7 738:11,19,22 Pozzuoli (141) 731:15 732:12 prevailed (1) 735:9 736:3 739:7 740:5,25 650:13 652:24 735:19,25 709:18 737:17 742:24 758:16 652:24 653:17 736:16,19 previous (1) 743:21,22 production (3) 655:25 656:16 737:2,13 738:5 759:16 744:12 759:10 709:24,25 734:5 657:16,22 738:12 739:5 previously (4) 759:20,23 professional (2) 658:1,22,25 739:10,19 684:5 715:21 760:18 761:8 721:22 779:7 659:6,12,17 740:12,18 729:16 734:22 761:12,14 professor (7) 660:1 661:7 741:3,6,11 primarily (1) 762:3 765:11 660:11 672:25 662:7,18 743:23 749:18 663:8 765:15 673:10 694:7 663:15,20 754:16 757:9 prior (8) privileges (6) 723:17 751:11 664:17 665:15 757:23 758:24 714:11,13,21 706:21,22 763:1 666:17,25 759:15 760:3 720:15 742:10 717:23 758:7,9 profile (2) 667:4,8,25 761:15 769:18 751:16 757:13 762:4 693:21 749:14 668:6 669:6 770:21 772:7 762:19 pro (2) profiled (1) 670:17 671:3,5 772:21 774:11 prison (2) 656:5,9 746:22 671:10,24 775:15,23 714:1 715:1 probably (12) promoting (1) 672:24 673:19 776:4 777:2,7 privilege (66) 669:18 673:7 658:12 674:20 675:6 practice (1) 668:2,13 672:23 681:9 687:20 prosecuted (1) 675:15 676:4 733:21 674:7,10,14 688:9 701:6 714:6 676:11,15 preceded (2) 680:9 699:19 711:12 721:13 prosecutor (12) 677:12 678:1,5 715:17 721:3 703:23 704:1 731:22 734:1 654:11 707:19 678:9 680:3,12 precise (1) 704:15 705:1 750:16 776:18 708:13 709:3,9 681:22 682:1 707:11 705:19,20 problem (2) 710:20 712:16 682:19 683:16 precisely (4) 706:5,16,18,19 770:15,17 713:12 714:15 683:22 684:1 684:8 686:19 706:20 707:7 proceed (5) 716:7,20 717:5 685:6,11,24 729:13 737:15 707:11,14 672:2 675:16 prosecutorial... 689:25 690:9 precision (1) 710:8 717:22 719:16 738:17 699:19 709:19 691:2,18 693:1 666:9 717:23 729:10 741:14 prosecutors (1) 693:3,14 predicate (1) 730:9,18,21 proceedings (2) 710:19 694:16 695:24 691:5 733:3 735:13 652:1 777:12 protect (2) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602490 18 705:1 724:24 protected (1) 747:1 protege (5) purpose (1) 725:17 purposes (3) 725:20 776:17 730:7,11 731:4 731:16 732:15 734:8 736:1 737:8,9,14 753:12 756:6 760:17 765:13 766:11,18 reached (8) 712:2,18 721: I 762:5,11 769:13 receive (5) 672:15 686:9 777:8 740:1,10,19 680:20 682:12 742:5 761:18,23 698:8700:16 pursuant (1) 741:2,10,13 711:11 720:24 762:7,13 700:16 732:14 742:25 743:24 753:11,12 received (11) proved (1) put (8) 750:14 754:24 773:22 775:1 654:3,10,16 767:19 658:24 664:20 756:23 757:4 read (30) 676:6,7 680:23 provide (20) 665:9,13 758:19 759:7,8 651:8 655:3 718:22 742:9 673:3 674:14 747:16 749:7 759:16 760:9 662:5 665:24 744:5,6 776:23 693:15 695:19 757:5 773:4 760:15 762:23 690:6,17,23 recess (5) 696:8 697:10 putting (1) 768:14,19 692:7,11,11,13 683:8 722:5 697:23 698:21 772:2 769:17 771:13 692:14,14,19 726:24 754:20 703:20 707:5 773:6 774:13 692:21 693:10 777:11 -(1--- 730:20 731:18 questioning (1) 696:4 711:4,16 recollection (33) 732:13 734:6 quash (1) 681:19 711:20,24 664:4 677:1 734:12 738:10 725:8 questions (26) 712:3 731:2 683:3 684:10 739:23 740:22 question (101) 675:2,3 756:25 735:25 746:20 684:21 686:1 744:2 752:18 655:20 656:17 760:7 767:12 750:11 754:23 686:13 698:5 provided (15) 658:7 659:1,5 768:9,16 780:9,12 707:16 710:22 688:25 698:22 659:11,16,24 769:22 770:3,5 781:22 710:23 711:14 702:19 712:14 660:2 662:5,6 771:8,14,18 readdressing (1) 712:25 713:2,7 718:17 734:3 662:8,19,19 773:2,7,14,23 776:14 713:14 715:4 744:3 752:15 663:16,21,23 773:24,25 reading (5) 715:10 716:4 757:2 767:6 664:18 665:16 774:3,4,16,22 661:4 696:10 716:16 733:11 768:23 769:3 665:18 666:15 775:6,13 711:22 712:7 733:22,23 769:13 771:2,6 667:17,22 776:14 728:3 750:2 751:14 providing (4) 669:13 670:14 quiet (1) ready (1) 752:2 754:2 655:23 698:2,3 672:1,25 675:8 738:6 653:16 755:5 763:5 729:20 675:10,24 quote (1) real (1) 771:10,12,20 public (12) 676:12 678:3,6 745:24 726:4 771:22 719:20,21,22 678:11 680:13 quotes (1) really (6) record (39) 728:14 740:4 681:25 682:2 666:21 696:13 699:14 652:3,11 658:24 746:12 748:6 682:24 683:18 702:6 749:15 674:17,23 R 751:1 757:14 683:20 684:2 763:21 764:18 683:6,9 685:9 radio (1) 758:4,14 689:6 691:15 Realtime (1) 690:6,12,18 778:16 691:19 692:13 661:23 648:21 704:11 706:8 publicity (1) 693:2,4,4 rainmaker (1) reason (2) 712:13,18,20 768:3 697:19,19 700:21 773:3 781:7 713:16,19 publicize (2) 700:9 701:23 raise (4) reasonable (3) 715:10 716:24 660:20 661:20 702:2,9 708:4 653:5 761:6,7 661:4 775:2 722:11,13,15 publicly (4) 708:22,24 777:8 780:12 727:1 728:10 689:4 716:22 710:2 714:12 range (2) recall (13) 730:6 739:1,17 729:21 764:11 716:15 717:1 754:10 755:15 669:23 673:13 746:10 754:18 purports (1) 717:13 718:13 reach (9) 673:15 684:8,9 754:21 756:22 732:7 719:1.6.14 720:20 721:3.10 686:23 696:/1 757:5 761:11 www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602491 19 769:4 776:2,5 776:5 779:12 records (5) 762:15 relied (8) 668:17 669:22 656:6 661:13 662:14 repetitively (1) 705:9 Reprographic... 652:10 730:22 reset (1) 776:13 688:1,6,8 695:4 670:25 675:8 727:6 reputation (29) resisting (1) 695:5 709:22 718:21 rephrase (1) 654:5,14 664:13 713:1 redundant (1) 719:11 740:3 768:19 684:12 687:4,5 resolve (1) 718:2 reluctant (1) report (1) 687:8 695:17 766:9 refer (1) 749:1 779:8 695:21 699:24 resolved (1) 662:23 rely (1) Reported (1) 716:24 717:19 777:5 referred (1) 717:6 648:20 718:14 748:10 respect (10) 663:4 relying (5) reporter (28) 748:23 749:10 663:22 687:8 referring (10) 668:20 670:11 651:7 653:5 750:25 752:7 703:25 727:4 661:16 666:9 673:22 674:13 662:9 682:3 752:23 753:5 728:17 735:9 701:18 704:4 675:4 689:12 704:8 753:15,24 736:2 737:16 704:15,15 remaining (1) 726:9 736:2 755:1,21 758:3 738:8 776:6 710:12 711:17 743:9 737:16 754:25 761:19,24 Respectfully (1) 714:4738:24 remarks (1) 767:10768:8 762:8,14 674:9 reflect (1) 692:23 768:25 769:9 reputations (1) respond (6) 690:13 remember (49) 769:11,12,21 747:4 659:1 690:22 refresh (2) 663:3 666:5,6 769:25 771:2 request (5) 721:14,15,20 683:3 707:16 672:8,9,10 771:16,19 666:10 674:16 722:2 refuse (3) 677:20 680:1 772:14 773:12 692:20 728:4 responded (1) 674:14 692:10 681:3,4 682:11 773:13,17,17 777:6 774:1 721:25 682:15,21,21 779:1,7 requested (2) responding (1) refused (1) 682:25 683:1 reporters (1) 769:23 779:11 658:19 715:6 688:4,14,15 769:7 requesting (1) response (9) regard (6) 696:9 699:8 Reporting (1) 674:22 667:21 675:3 674:15 754:8 700:3 701:10 780:18 requests (2) 693:20 709:23 755:12 762:18 710:21 711:20 represent (4) 709:24 734:4 718:13 721:21 765:13 767:2 711:21,22 657:9,10 733:5 require (4) 721:24 730:10 regarding (6) 712:7,17,19,20 765:15 703:23 718:23 734:4 668:25 681:16 712:22,24 representatio... 721:7 760:20 responsibilitie... 682:5 700:7 713:25 716:22 668:24 669:1 reread (2) 777:4 711:25 728:15 719:2 731:11 704:17 706:3,4 662:7 737:14 responsive (3) Registered (1) 733:4 742:14 representatio... rereviewed (1) 658:20 672:1 779:6 742:15 744:16 727:3 725:9 710:7 REIN (1) 745:5,20 representative... research (7) return (1) 649:18 749:24 751:18 713:8 716:10,12 653:13 711:5,21 780:15 related (2) 751:19 761:20 718:19 719:9 717:7,15 returned (1) 687:10 701:17 766:19,21 representative... 721:18 750:12 780:10 relationship (3) remembered (1) 726:8 735:16 reservation (2) review (6) 765:16 766:4,23 763:7 736:9 737:23 739:11 759:4 712:13 713:19 relative (3) repeat (6) represented (3) reserve (5) 717:8 738:15 706:2 779:15,16 665:8 704:9,12 668:12 674:8 683:23 684:1,7 759:4 779:11 releases (1) 719:6 740:18 699:17 704:25 705:2 reviewed (2) 767:24 757:19 representing (4) reserved (3) 722:16 726:3 Relevancy (1) repeatedly (3) 652:9 656:5.8 683:24 697:17 reviewing (3) www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602492 20 712:17,19,22 Reyes (1) 650:14 Richard (2) 649:19 652:16 Rick (1) 727:1 649:14 Rothstein (61) 654:8,9 666:22 667:16 668:19 669:17 670:6,8 671:17 672:14 672:19 673:5 739: I I 759:16 761:16 rulings (1) 704:25 764:4 770:14 770:18 774:7 776:22 777:3 777:10 Scarola's (1) 701:15 scenario (3) 775:22 780:2,4 seal (3) 722:25 723:1 749:7 sealed (2) 723:10 757:6 Sean (1) S SAFRA (1) right (51) 674:3 675:23 649:12 746:22 749:11 650:14 653:6 656:18 676:22 679:11 sat (8) 749:13 SEARCY (1) 664:2 667:14 679:17 680:8 661:1 663:6 scheduling (1) 649:3 673:15 676:10 681:1,17 682:7 694:4,10,20 776:18 second (13) 677:23 678:24 683:13 684:19 720:6 746:18 Schiller (3) 659:18 663:16 683:23 684:17 685:2,17,23 746:23 650:8 652:20 674:21 675:16 690:7,18 693:5 686:5,22 Saturday (3) 727:4 678:11 700:13 702:7 706:15 687:11 689:3 722:10,19 726:6 School (i) 703:14 722:9 707:20,20 695:12,16 Satz (1) 751:11 724:7 731:16 716:8 717:2 696:12,13,16 710:17 Schultz (1) 736:17 739:6 718:15 720:15 696:19,22 saw (2) 652:20 740:13 724:3 725:3,13 697:11,13,23 746:21 771:7 scope (2) secondary (1) 726:13 728:19 698:4,7,14,24 saying (16) 706:3 777:4 722:9 728:22 730:23 699:11,13,16 654:10 666:1 Scott (63) secretly (2) 732:3,25 740:6 699:21,22 696:25 698:13 648:17 649:9,11 772:4,10 741:12,24 700:8,19 701:4 746:21,21 652:17 668:19 section (1) 743:4,8 744:9 701:17 702:7 747:13,16,18 670:8,12 689:22 745:16 747:17 703:11,16,21 747:18,24,25 679:11,16 see (12) 747:21,24 705:8,13 748:20 771:1 681:18 682:16 664:24 689:22 748:5,9,11,14 706:14 707:9 771:24,24 683:14,18,24 691:9 701:1 748:16,19 Rothstein's (2) says (5) 684:20 687:11 703:12 718:10 759:6 764:2 670:12 700:16 665:7,8 719:4 692:20 695:12 719:4 727:24 769:9,13 771:5 routinely (1) 752:24 767:24 701:4 703:11 727:25 728:1 rights (1) 703:18 Scarola (44) 703:16,21 744:22 776:9 709:18 RPR (4) 649:3,5 652:13 704:21 705:7 seeking (2) rigid (1) 648:20 778:15 653:11,15 705:13 706:14 668:24 760:12 iiiii 779:22 (11) 780:18 RSimpson@w... 658:5,20,24 662:20 667:21 707:8 708:22 722:5 724:8 seen (1) 663:2 650:7 655:2 649:20 669:2 674:9,22 726:17 730:12 selected (1) 656:5 661:14 rule (4) 677:15 679:19 735:17 736:25 692:15 661:18 662:15 654:20 685:7 683:4 696:20 737:7,10,25 sell (2) 664:3 720:6 763:9 764:8 696:23 703:24 738:11,20,23 694:9 768:4 724:21 725:21 ruled (1) 709:20 718:25 739:3,9,12,18 selling (2) 747:19 737:15 724:9,11 725:1 740:1,5,25 686:5 698:9 role (11) rules (1) 725:14,17 741:8 743:21 Senator (2) 675:12,12,14,19 657:14 730:6 735:2 758:10,16,18 744:5 765:21 676:8,13,18 ruling (9) 736:14,18 758:22 759:12 send (1) 678:8,9 712:12 655:22 674:16 738:16,21,25 759:24 762:2 774:2 747:9 674:22 681:21 739:15,16 762:15 765:11 sense (2) ROSS (1) 697:16 703:24 760:22 762:8 768:18 769:17 684:11 776:22 www.phippsreporting.com (888)811-3408 EFTA00602493 21 sent (3) 677:10 771:21 774:2 SHIPLEY (1) 649:4 shocked (3) 747:15 Simpson (38) 649:19 652:15 small (10) 675:12,14,19 676:8,13,18 650:13 652:24 652:25 653:13 653:17 655:25 sentence (2) 751:15,23 652:16 653:1 678:8,9 764:15 656:16 657:16 657:17 665:16 762:20 653:25 659:24 764:16 657:22 658:1 sentenced (2) short (3) 661:15 662:25 smart (1) 658:22,25 714:1 715:1 683:4699:3 666:15669:13 737:10 659:6,12,17 sentences (1) 701:21 670:14 673:10 smccawley@b... 660:1 661:7 655:12 shortly (5) 673:13 674:6 650:10 662:7,18 sentencing (1) 708:14 729:3,3 675:1 680:9 sold (1) 663:15,20 716:2 751:13 766:12 685:3,9 690:12 695:16 664:17 665:15 separate (5) shoulder (1) 690:21 691:11 somebody (7) 666:17,25 680:17 682:10 690:1 692:4 693:2 678:25 707:10 667:4,8,25 687:14 706:25 show (7) 695:22 696:1 707:12,18 668:6 669:6 733:16 688:8,19,25 697:14 698:15 745:7 764:14 670:17 671:3,5 series (4) 689:19 691:17 702:3 710:1 768:12 671:10,24 654:3 658:8 713:6 766:17 718:1 723:16 soon (2) 672:24 673:19 666:5 667:12 showed (5) 727:11 729:10 654:2 687:21 674:20 675:6 serious (3) 767:10,19 729:25 734:8 sorry (10) 675:15 676:4 693:9,19 748:23 769:15,22 770:16,23 657:18 669:3 676:11,15 serve (2) 770:2 775:21 677:5,8 706:7 677:12 678:1,5 688:1,13 shows (1) single (4) 723:15 736:18 678:9 680:3,12 settlement (1) 689:5 658:16,17,17,18 737:12 738:2 681:22 682:1 724:22 sic (1) sir (1) 743:1 682:19 683:16 SEVENTEEN... 699:16 695:23 sought (2) 683:22 684:1 648:1 sidebar (1) sit (10) 655:8 661:20 685:6,11,24 sex (4) 666:16 673:14 680:17 source (1) 689:25 690:9 665:1 694:2 sift (1) 707:15 714:23 763:23 691:2,18 693:1 723:9 725:25 666:12 714:25 745:16 sources (1) 693:3,14 sexual (4) sign (3) 763:24 765:3 706:25 694:16 695:24 754:6,7 755:9 651:8 780:12,14 766:25 769:5 south (3) 697:16 699:3 755:10 signature (4) sits (1) 649:10 733:24 700:12 701:21 share (12) 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