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O26 O12t:21 0:21:24 04:21:28 01:24:28 01:21:32 04:21:34 On DA & WH a 04:21:37 © On24:41 O42 1:45 1 0 04:21:50 1 1 01;21:54 1 2 01:21:57 1 3 01:22:01 1 4 o122.06 15 01:22:08 1 6 01:22:13 1 7 01:22:14 1 8 01:22:18 1 9 01:22:21 20 04:22:25 21 01:22:26 22 01:22:27 23 01:22:29 24 01:22:31 25 01:22:33 01:22:33 04:22:38 01:22:36 01:22:38 01:22:41 04:22:44 On Om th Wh = Ot22:47 © 01:22:51 o12253 10 or22se 14 orzzss 12 or22s9 13 01:23:01 14 01:23:04 15 orz30s 16 01:23:07 17 or2s12 18 or2314 19 or2317 20 012320 24 01:23:22 22 012323 23 or2326 24 012330 25 10/20/2015 01:08:15 PM 220 Are you aware that the police report reflects that the woman I referred to who was hired to give massages, told them that she never touched anyone inappropriately? A. LIthink that there are -- there is information along those lines in the police report, yes. Q. Okay. And so do you acknowledge that the police report, on its face, reflects both reports of massages that involved improper sexual contact -- contact and massages that were perfectly legitimate? A. Yes, but not in the same proportion. Q. My question wasn't proportion. The -- the report on its face, you understood, reflected that there were massages given at Mr. Epstein's residence that were perfectly legitimate? A. Some -- it was basically a few isolated examples from what I could see, Q. So you would characterize what was said in the police report as "a few isolated examples"? A. Well, given the backdrop that they had -- Q. No. My question -- it's a yes or no question. Is that how you would characterize it? MR. SCAROLA: Excuse me. The witness is not confined to answering yes or no, if yes or no would be misleading. ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS (954) 331-4400 221 BY MR. SIMPSON: Q. It's a different position than was taken previously, but -- A. Imean, I was just going to give one sentence, and the one sentence would be, in the context of this whole police report where they had 24, approximately, minor girls who were -- who were being sexually abused, the references to legitimate massages I would view as isolated. Q. So you're coming to the conclusion, looking at the police report, that they are isolated; is that right? A. Yes. Q. And do you think a fair-minded reader of the police report would reach that conclusion? A. Absolutely. Q. And were you aware that the police report, to give a bit more detail, reflected that a woman who was described as having tattoos was hired to give deep-tissue Swedish massages. Do you recall that being in the -- in the police report? A. Something along those lines, yes. Q. And she also -- that woman also told the police that she was not Jeffrey Epstein's type, that she wasn't thin, had tattoos, didn't fit his type? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS (954) 331-4400 01:23:34 01:23:37 01:23:40 01:23:40 01:23:42 01:23:44 01:23:47 ON OD Om WD 01:23:50 orz3sa 9 01:23:57 10 01:23:58 11 01:24:01 12 04:24:01 13 o1:2404 14 or24o4 15 or2aos 16 or2a07 17 or2ac9 18 01:24:09 19 01:24:11 20 or2ats 21 ois 22 or2ete 23 04:24:19 24 or242a 25 04:24:25 01:24:25 01:24:31 01:24:31 04:24:34 04:24:35 01:24:41 On OD Om WD = 01:24:49 © 01:24:54 04:25:04 1 0 01:25:07 1 1 01:25:13 1 2 01:25:16 1 3 orzsis 14 01:25:21 1 5 01:25:22 1 6 0125.26 17 01:25:30 1 8 04:25:32 1 9 01:25:36 20 01:25:38 21 04:25:42 22 01:25:45 23 04:25:47 24 01:26:03 25 222 A. That sounds accurate with the information I have, yes, she doesn't sound like she would fit his type. Q. And so do you agree with me then -- A. And she's over the age of 18, which is another reason why wouldn't fit his type, so... Q. But you acknowledge that -- that this woman -- that the police report reflects a woman over -- well over the age of 18, being hired to give perfectly legitimate massages, correct? A. Yeah. That was cover for the sex trafficking that was going on. Q. Okay. So you're now -- does the police report say "it was cover" -- A. That was -- QQ. -- "for the sex trafficking"? A. That was my conclusion when I reviewed the materials. Q. Okay. So your inclusion is that a fair-minded reader of the police report would come to that conclusion? A. December 30th of 2014, knowing what we know now, yes. Q. Do you consider yourself a very suspicious person? ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS (954) 331-4400 223 A. No. Q. Do you consider yourself a conspira -- having a conspiratorial view? A. Absolutely not. Q. Do you consider yourself a crusader? A. Well, crusader for justice, I would say, yes. Q. if -- let me put it this way: In your view, is evidence that a person, any person, any guest at Mr. Epstein's house had a massage, evidence that that person engaged in criminal sexual conduct, contact with minors, because of the fact of having a massage? A. You'd have to look at the context. Q. On its own, is it any evidence -- doesn't it -- is it any evidence at all, in your view? A. It would be some evidence, yes. Q. Notwithstanding that the report, on its face, reflects both legitimate and illegitimate massages? A. The report on its face, let's be clear, reflects a lot of illegitimate sag -- massages anda sporadic or isolated, you know, legitimate massages. So the fact that somebody gets a massage in that context, I-- I think is -- is -- raises, you know, the concerns we have been talking about. Q. Did you, before December 30th of 2014, yourself personally, review what I think you referred to ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS (954) 331-4400 Page 220 to 223 of 335 18 of 46 sheets HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_010858