EFTA02466557.pdf

From: jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2016 10:46 AM To: Pete Rawson Subject: Re: GIV update anti ice shows a slow slide from 9-1.7 o= the right and 3 - 1.5 on the left On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 7:27 PM, Pete Raw=on > wrote: Hi Again Jeffrey, Questions from me- The 25 minutes- Is that during the climb? Did the voltages change on level out? ie, power back, when reaching cruise flight- I would expect reaching cruise altitude at around 25 minutes. The voltage is showing the amount of pressure to close the valves- They are spring loaded to open, the more pressure is to close them, and =educe the temperatures. When anti-ice was selected, did the left show zero? The issue of voltage being present on the right- 2 volts-could point to =nother electrical issue- As you mentioned at the end, with the pulse issue. Electrically, the system should lose all voltage when the Anti-ice is se=ected on. The system is DC voltage, and should not be affected with fluctuations f=om other systems- EFTA_R1_01575131 EFTA02466557 There are many variables, as you know. The valves are spring loaded open, maybe the spring is weak and/or being=stuck on the right valve? I would still like to swap the LP "Fan air" valves next. Since both showed a reading of 3, they were being commanded to close the=valves slightly- During climb, and a higher power setting, as far as I know from your mes=age. The right side going to 9 shows trying to close the valve- Stuck valve?<=p> Again, both are original, with over 9,000 hours on them. Regards, Pete From: jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevacati=n@gmail.com» Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2016 7:46 AM To: Larry Visoski; Pete Rawson Subject: Re: GIV update understood„ question , does the voltage max out at 9? My training manuals s=ow that the system is up to 14 VDC, it goes through a resistor and is a 10=VDC Maximum to the torque motor. Remember that the box=in the Radio Rack is an add-on, it is not normally installed, and there ar= no requirements for calibration- The 9 volts seems to =e appropriate for the full close signal to the valve- The valves respond to=Pressure, not voltage. The voltage is then c=nverted into a pressure that the valve responds to. 2 EFTA_R1_01575132 EFTA02466558 if not then th= valve works at 9,? The valve is normally=open, the voltage shows sending a close signal, in this case, a full close=signal to increase the Temperature to 400 Degrees- The left side is show=ng a signal for that side valve to be placed in a slightly open position- <=span> It seems to be modula=ing, as I suspect to be normal. altitude seems to effect it. so your answer seems po=sible, Both LP valves "=an Air valves" are original, they are not a high fail item. The valves are not se=t warm air through them, so "Cold Soaking" could be an issue. The valves are locate= in the pylons, just forward of the heat exchangers that are visible from =elow. The maintenance check= for the system are basically- Engines running, no a=rflow through the heat exchanger (guy on a ladder feeling for airflow)- hi=h Tech. Select Wing heat, and confirm airflow overboard. Turn off wing heat-</=pan> Increase power, and c=nfirm airflow, no numbers for power settings given- the voltage is applied as a result of resistance and compu=er. Correct, the inputs a=e the Temp sensor and Anticipator, being sent to the Controller (ie the Co=puter). The valves are not el=ctrically controlled- The electric signals =re sent to a Torque motor. The panel show the pr=ssures being sent, and matches the voltages. The pressure is the m=st important part, as the valves respond to pressure. The Torque motor conyrrts the electrical signal into a pressure input to the valves to Open/Clos= them, No Voltage, No pressure, valve is spring loaded to open- High voltage, high pr=ssure, valve is commanded to close. There is no indicatio= of the valve responding to the command. The Torque motors/pre=sure regulators were swapped at Westfield- the right engine tgt is highter does that mean=that the fan valve is more closed than it should be? maybe a result =f a bad resisitor ? The LP air does not go through the Engine, So I don't s=e it as an issue to account for any TGT split. The HP air bleed off would account for TGT issues.</=pan> is it a big deal to change fan valve? No, not a big issue. =e need to remove Pylon Panels, top and bottom. We can do it in a =AO day. could it have been damaged by the bent tube you foun=? No, I can't see t=at- The line supplies air=in and out to control the valve position. The valve only respon=s to the air pressure supplied. the other mystery is why a pulse =n the reading. ? valve? resistor , computer. , electrical bus?=/div> I suspect that there =s a fault in the ground for the strobe lights- The pulse seems to be=regular. I don't think tha= the system could catch up with it. I haven't seen th= issue before- Regards, Pete 3 EFTA_R1_01575133 EFTA02466559 On Sun, Apr 10, 2016 at 7:17 AM, Larry Visoski apan dir="ltr") >= wrote: Jeffrey Message from Pete,.below: Dave and I are at airport now in case you decide to depart earlier tha= 10am„ Plane is fueled and ready,. From Pete: Hello Jeffrey,</=> Larry knows that I am l=ng winded with my responses, Here is my brief- Feel free to read all a= your leisure- They are mostly my thou=hts so far- I suspect that the righ= precooler (fan air) modulating valve is bad. They are both original.=/span> From the last video and=Photo's; The readings show that =he left side is being given a voltage to the Torque motor sending a=C2 pressure to command the valve to be partially closed. Zero volts, zero pressu=e is for full open, ie: cold air into the precooler and lowering the tempe=ature into the supply system. 4 EFTA_R1_01575134 EFTA02466560 The signals show a stea=y state condition; 3 Volts, 3 PSI. The valve has been sent=signals, and has responded correctly, and therefore is in the proper posit=on to maintain 400 degrees in the supply system. This is being monitored= and controlled by the controller, and the sensor inputs. There is no signal from=the valve, the temperature monitoring circuit controls the changes require=. The right side shows th=t it is being commanded to close due to the high voltage, and pressures.</=pan> ( 9 volts, 9 PSI) It seems that the signa=s are not being followed, or that the valve cannot respond to them.=/p> Since the control syste= does not see the temperature change from the sensors, it continues to inc=ease the pressure to the valve. Brief complete-<=p> As for the full version= This was done as a draf=, please excuse any duplication for items noted in the brief, these were m= original thoughts. I agree with all that y=u stated- The guidelines are for =hat the electrical system does. We have found a bad con=roller- the sweeping voltage and pressures, and replaced it- There was also a bad se=sor that was replaced- We have swapped the pre=sure regulator/torque motors. Latest swap was the Ant=cipators. There seem to be multip=e issues, and we are narrowing them down. EFTA_R1_01575135 EFTA02466561 I believe that the elec=rical and control systems are now operating normally. Now on to the air side =f it. From the last video, an= photo's- I believe that the left=side is operating properly. The Temp is being contr=lled by sending a regulated pressure to the valve, and it responding. The pressure supplied i= closing the valve, and maintaining the 400 Degrees requested. No voltage equals no pr=ssure, Valve open, lowering the Temperature. The right side shows gi=ing a close signal to the precooler (fan air) valve. High Voltage, and press=re supplied to the Valve on that side to close, and increase the temperatu=e. That side doesn't s=em to respond. The valve has a 4 inch =nput/output side. The control line is abo=t 1/4 inch. That is one of the line= that we found collapsed, and started us on this direction. Is it possible that the=supply air is not being able to overcome the pressure at the valve?=/p> The pressure read at th= panel is a control pressure, also known as "Muscle air".=/p> Maybe the input air at =he 4 inch diameter inlet, can overcome the control air. I again suspect an issu= with the LP valve- There is no valve posit=on, or feedback signal from the valve- The electrical signal i= showing to close the valve, The pressure is also sh=wing to close the valve. 6 EFTA_R1_01575136 EFTA02466562 One way to check is to =elect Wing heat on- The system causes the a=plicable side to remove the signals, and allow the valves to go full open.=/span> Wing heat is not normal=y used at altitude- When the aircraft is in=below 0 degrees temps, there is no reason, since any precip won't stic=. Ask Larry if there any =ssues with selecting the wing heat on at altitude- I don't believe tha= there are any limits to the altitude, but the fuel burn will be increased= Just a quick check- The ground checks for t=e precooler system are limited, Engines running, there =hould be no air flowing from the lower pylon heat exchanger at idle- Increase power, and the=e should be airflow noticed. My training manual show= that the valve should start to open at about 74% HP on the ground,=/p> Wing heat on, there sho=ld be airflow. Regards, Pete Sent from my iPhone please note The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for 7 EFTA_R1_01575137 EFTA02466563 the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com <mailtcrjeevacation@gmail.com> , and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved please note The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevacation@gmail.com> , and destroy this communication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -all rights reserved please =ote The information contained in this communication is confiden=ial, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside informati=n, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the propert= of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communica=ion or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If =ou have received this communication in error, please notify us immediat=ly by return e-mail or by e-mail to jeevacation@gmail.com <mailto:jeevacation@gmail=com> , and destroy this comm=nication and all copies thereof, including all attachments. copyright -=11 rights reserved 8 EFTA_R1_01575138 EFTA02466564