EFTA02497623.pdf

From: jeffrey E. <jeevacation@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 10:11 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: yup On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 5:50 PM, Noam Chomsky wrote: The third problem can be posed =93 though few will understand it. The first two can be posed but the=e is no known way to address them — the first for reasons that Dick Lewontin explained in his important paper on evolution of cognit=on (which those who write about the topic refuse to read), the second beca=se it reaches to issues that are total mysteries even in much simpler doma=ns — perhaps, though many don't to contemplate the fact, because of limits of human cognitive capacity. =AD Puppet and puppeteer, again. There are lots of narrower problems that can be posed, but there are issues=of general import. What was very special, maybe unique, about Hilbert in 1900 was the advances=in the field had reached the point so that questions had that miraculous c=mbination of being (1) potentially within reach and (2) of very great impo=t for the field of mathematics. That's hard to achieve. Will think more about it — re=eating the Hebrew words to myself. Did you learn them as a kid in He=rew school? Noam From: jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.comj Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 5:09 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: I understand the limitations of questions too far fr=m the boundary of contemporary thought but as you speak =ebrew. i will paraphrase the reason you should consider posing the q=estions now. -- If not now. when? On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 3:59 PM, Noam Chomsky ‹ > > =rote: EFTA_R1_01622623 EFTA02497623 The main questions that interest me a=e about origin of the language faculty, which, I think, created modern humans, the most unusual, nutty, and remarkable of all biological p=enomena. There are two problems that seem beyond reach: the origin o= elementary human concepts, which appear to be radically different from an=thing in the animal world; and the "creative aspect of language use," the phenomenon that astonished Galileo, 0=scartes, and other leading figures since. The third problem has to d= with what we've been calling "the Basic Property"=of language: a recursive procedure that generates an infinite array of hierarchically structured expressions interpreted at the interfaces, pr=marily the conceptual-intentional interface, providing a "language=of thought." The most fundamental question here is to what extent =he Strong Minimalist Thesis (SMT) holds, that is, to what extent has nature produced a perfect solution to the Basic Propert=, which underlies our creative capacities in language (and probably much e=se). That problem can be addressed, and has been, I think with some succes=. Very generous proposal. Made go=d sense for Hilbert in 1900, given the advances of the past century. These enabled him to formulate problems of deep mathematical significance =n a form that was not too far from contemporary understanding.</=> But my feeling is that the cognitive =ciences is nowhere near that stage. It's possible to pose ma=y narrower problems, and that's in fact what people work on from gra= school on to the limits of research. But understanding, I think, ha= probably not reached the stage where one can sensibly do what Hilbert did= Others incidentally disagree =93 as is usually the case. From: jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.comj Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 2:40 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: i will get you a response on israel. / =C2 2. what does amaze you? interest you? . 3/ =C2 we could put together some chomsky questions for posterity, =AO like hillberts , fermats etc. I am willing to fund a prize for solutions, Anonymo=sly if you prefer... I need to keep up your fun quotient. On Wed, Jun 24, 2015 at 2:23 PM, Noam Chomsky =rote: Forty years ago, Israel was one of th= most admired countries in the world. Now it is most disliked. Forty years ago it was pretty clear, as I wrote at the time (and I was far=from alone), that those who call 2 EFTA_R1_01622624 EFTA02497624 themselves "supporters of Israel=E2 are in fact supporters of its moral degeneration, international i=olation, constant conflict and security problems, and maybe worse. So it has occurred. Israel even now has an of=icial whose task is to deal with international isolation.=/u> Israelis like to attribute all this to anti-Semitism, which hasn't =hanged in the past 40 years. Or to appeal to "we have no neg=tiating partner," which won't wash. The problem is n=t Netanyahu. The policies and problems are much deeper. The cr=cial question is how long and how far will Israel proceed on the course to self- destruct=on. A lot of work in Al, neural network t=eory, "Big Data and statistics," etc., is as you describe =E2 mimicking behavior (which I don't even find amazing or particularly interest=ng). But I think you underestimate the theoretical insights and expl=nations, such as the few I mentioned in the papers I sent, the theories th=t yield explanations for such surprising phenomena as rigidity and structure-dependence, with their far-reaching consequences= Those I think are the kinds of results that are rarely found outsid= the hard sciences. They don't mimic behavior, but explain f=ndamental properties of cognitive processes that enter into behavior, of course indirectly. And there's a lot=more like it. From: jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.comj Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2015 6:43 AM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: 1.do you have any specific questions for him? =C2 he thinks its not going in the right direction. =AO ie. bibi, not strong enough to make tough decisions. . =AO ehud trusts hamas more than abbas. I know you dont like telephones but we could set up a to=t exchange if you wanted to. 2. more important I use my coin flip analogy often. ie. . single cell=experiments, like looking through a microscope at my coin , measure =ts content it moment, its shape , all trying to figure out why=the result after a long while is always the same -equal number=of tails and heads. a consistent result. no algorithm , no=computation . Why i am pushing you on this, is that i f=rmly believe that language needs a theory, cognitive sci=nce needs a theory, your minions and intellectual offspring are like=C2 bio engineers --they will be able to mimic some of the behavior, =es it is amazing but not interesting. you have thought long an= hard and more importantly have seen what does NOT work. einsteins t=ought experiments led to truly remarkable results in physics. Im hoping that results like that can be achieved for biology=/p> On Tue Jun 23, 2015 at 11:05 PM, Noam Chomsky «= wrote: Have a good weekend. I wonder what he=thinks about where the state is heading now. 3 EFTA_R1_01622625 EFTA02497625 We'll probably be at the Cape= in Wellfleet, if we can make it. Maybe there are miracles, but I think=more prosaic approaches yield rich results in domains like vision (Mares main concern) and language. Like some of those I =80 ve mentioned. I don't see how to progress in other ways= From: jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 10:20 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: 1 you are a treat and=l very much appreciate your non finance views.): 2 ehud barak will b= with me for the weekend in ny. not sure where you are? Marr, , -try, probabilty, , symmetry. ent=opy. it might look like computation but it is not. it mi=ht look like algorithm but it is not. the flip of a coin does not co=pute, have an algorithm or a mechanism. though it might look as if it does. =A0 it is not an input system, there is not mechanism drivning the heads an= tails towards equal numbers. , there is not nature looking to see what th= previous results were and computing the next result. like your ug it is more of a miracle. On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 9:54 PM, Noam Chomsky =rote: I wouldn't take the term =80 mechanism" too literally. It refers to whatever is taki=g place in the brain. For some, as most of those in the Nowak group, it means neural nets. =For Gallistel, it's processes internal to the cell. Useful t= look at these matters in terms of Marr's three levels: computatio=, algorithm, mechanism. From: jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 9:46 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: 4 EFTA_R1_01622626 EFTA02497626 1 will do , by the way new =ousing starts were the highest in 7 years. the mortgage intere=t deduction cheerleaders , ( not me ). are thrilled. 2. i am willing to be convinced, as always=/u> 3. my admittedly naive point is that &qu=t;mechanism" ,I believe ,is the wrong concept. driven in error,=by the machine -computer analog since the early 1900s . instead =AO think of probability , it is not a mechanism , On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 9:05 PM, Noam Chomsky <chomsky@mit.edu <mailto:chomsky@mit.edu» =rote: 1.=C2 Not a trivial matter. I'm not the=best person to ask. I'd suggest contacting people who =99ve really thought seriously about these issues, like Robert Pollin, a fi=e independent economist at U Mass Amherst 2.=C2 Sherman's speculation is an interesting exten=ion of recent discoveries about conservation, deep homologies, regulatory =ircuits, and other elements of what's sometimes called "the evo-devo revolution." It remains to be seen whether a=ything can be done with it. I think you underestimate the contributi=ns of Berwick and his students, including Yang. 3.=C2 The idea that there is a "ug" for vis=on, language, etc., seems to be essentially what Randy Gallistel calls =80 the norm in neuroscience," quoted in the paper on modularity =hat I sent you. And yes, they're certainly connected, at least a= the level of cells, and presumably well beyond. These are live and =ignificant research areas. These "central modules" d= not have input or output, but they are accessed by input systems and in some cases, like language, by output systems. That seems a fair p=cture of the rough cognitive architecture. I don't follow th= rest. It's true that work on human language uses as evidenc= what is available, namely performance. And much of the work unfortunately is fascinated by the droppings, just as in other fields. =AO But there is some work that seeks to discover the mechanisms, as discus=ed in the papers I sent you. From: Jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.comj Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2015 7:52 AM To: Noam Chomsk Cc: Subject: Re: Re: 1. if you would design a fair tax system. =AO what goals would you suggest. I ye been researching how to start a new =inancial system for Zimbabwe. its now so broken it prese=ts a clean petrie dish, exchange rate of a billion billion dollars =AO equals one us dollar 2 berwick and yang. clever. =olution hunters, . not sure if question raisers ,=sherman better 5 EFTA_R1_01622627 EFTA02497627 3 . taking sherman work. and my conjectures =C2 ug 's would be genetically created =C2 modules of "sense makers. " structures t=at were able to separate sense from non-sense. I think there would be a ug for vision . smell etc and probably similar or=connected in some way. in previous emails I have been referring to &q=ot;shapes" as a metaphor for those structures. shap=s do not have an input /output . a failing of the computational analogies.=C2 let me try this , a cell membrane , has a shape, it se=arates inner from outer. it is easy to see what is inside or o=t. the shape of the membrane is determined solely by a probability d=stribution. nothing more. The tons of works on spoken language =seem in vain to try to make of the mechanism from a minuscule sampling of=the combinatorics . silly. in the elephant and the blind man s=ory, , they are not even close to touching the elephant they are fasc=nated by its droppings. href=' by sitting in.c/=pan> On Tue Jun 23 2015 at 12:28 AM, Noam Chomsky cc= =wrote: I wouldn't dare to run the sh=w for money 101, but I'm sure I would learn a lot It's true that grammars stand=outside of time, a fact that many linguists and psychologists don'= understand. There are suggestions of something like a "universal UG," =hough not couched in just these terms. Notably Michael Sherman =99s theory that a universal genome appeared at about the time of the Cambr=an explosion, and all forms of life are minor variants of it. some knowledge . From: jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.c=m] Sent: Monday, June 22, 2015 12:06 AM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: 1. dont you have any =uestions about money, . ? ? finance.. =? I owe you 2 .to say the shape c=n be" decribed " by language is redundant. =A0 the "shape"=is the metaphor for an n-dimentional object, it stands outside of t=me. as do grammars , but sentences do not, they require time. = the shape is somewhat like a fitness landscape? contrasted with communication which also requires = time dimension and biololgy that needs and uses energy . =AO I suggest the mammal Ug is a subcategory of all UG.s = and that as biology prefers redundancy . the other modules, ie vision =AO are small distortions of it. 3. during that UN period I often give a "=C2 money 101 to world leaders who have in many case.. little kno=ledge of a subject to which they give many speeches and policy directives=C2 , as they only have experinces such as that of a g=neral , a politicitain, in some instancees a disk jockey, befo=e having to run their country. I would love to consider =ome of what you thought was " fair " . with regard. =C2 allocations. if you were running the show. 6 EFTA_R1_01622628 EFTA02497628 n n n PM, Noam Chomsky «= href=" >=wrote: I follow up to the point where you wr=te "the organizing principle of the shape is language... =80 No doubt it can (partially) be described in language, but that's not what y=u mean. Zipf's law is a rank-frequenc= distribution. And also meaningless, as Mandelbrot showed 60 years a=o. I hope Yang is clear about this. He surely knows.</=> Noam From: Jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.c=m] Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 2:48 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: it is my failing not =ours. the old math requires numbers . too li=iting. ( we can put a metric overlay on later in the chain) i=agine a shape in real space. it is readily apparent if a line either fits on the shape or not . how=do you know. ? you compare the line with the shape. =AO your visual system allows the mental shape to either map onto or not =AO onto the shape in a coherent manner. the shape is not an input =AO device ,it is an object . the organizing principle of the shape is la=guage, the shape is a collection of grammars. line= on the shape are either coherent or not. coherent ones are le=itimate sentences . yang is flexible in his use of the term probability.=. for example he in a number of papers refers to zipf as a probabiltiy dis=ribution. i have checked a number of his papers after your last remark, I think it is a mistake. he m=ans that after empirical measurement . for ex word frequency,=C2 . if ten times out of 100 the corpus has the word x. =AO then he describes the probablility of finding the word as 10 perc=nt . this is not correct. it is only the probablity of finding the word in the=frequency list . but he is very accomplished at mathematical m=dels. On Sun, Jun 21, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Noam Chomsky =rote: Interesting image, but I don'= see what it tells us about language. The problem looks to me like this, ro=ghly. 7 EFTA_R1_01622629 EFTA02497629 Take, say, the human visual system.=C2 There's a genetic component that determines that humans will=have a mammalian and not an insect visual system, and much else. Same wit= other subsystems of the organism — "organs," =80 modules." Language in particular. The technical name fo= this component, whatever it turns out to be, is UG. UG therefore de=ermines that certain systems are possible I-languages for humans, others are not. =I presume that is what the "biological organizing principle =9D for language is. It's plainly not an input system, though=it determines possible input systems for human languages. I don =80 t see how we improve understanding by looking at it from this perspective..c/=pan> A minor technical problem, not serious, has to do with distinguishing digit=l infinity from continuity, like continuous lines on the surface of a hemi=phere. I think you'll find Yang inte=esting. Noam From: Jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.c=m] Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 10:52 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: 1.1 will wait on vale=ia. we can craft a fun few days 2, try this on but only if you get a moment , i know you =re busy it appear to me that ""language" can be defined as the=C2 biological organizing principle that creates a shape spa=e. "coherent sentences " are defined as those that f=t on the shape. The projections on the sensory motors, allows commun=cation. . There are an infinite digital number of sentences.that do fit on the shape , but=orders of magnitude more, that do not fit.- to attempt a naive=representation, imagine a hemisphere, ( symmetric), =AO any continuous line drawn on its surface , is a sentence. =C2 there are infinite numbers of lines that can be drawn. however, try=ng to connect two points, directly without traversing the hemishpere =AO is also infinitely possible but most solutions need to leav= the surface. The principle that organizes the shape is NOT an input device. one can map inputs onto the shap= but it is not THE shape , ex, a hemisphere bowl in 3 =pace, analogy, one can put marbles in the bowl and they will map a p=th to the bottom. but the shape of the bowl . determines how f=st they move, and in which direction, . the shape of the bowl is the language= there is a shape for vision as well. = it exists without input, certain paths are more probable etc. 3. I will contact Yang 8 EFTA_R1_01622630 EFTA02497630 href= On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 10:41 PM, Noam Chomsky «= rote: Valeria's not here right now,=so will have to check with her about late September. Really intrigui=g possibilities, and a delightful offer. On Yang, I read his work quite differ=ntly. He does make use of word frequencies and probability distribut=ons, but as far as I am aware in pretty straightforward and innocuous ways. =A0 And he's quite sophisticated about these matters. Smart and int=resting guy. You might want to contact him directly. I don't recall his using Zipf=E2 s "laws," but it wouldn't matter much. =AO Mandelbrot showed back in the '50s that they were a statistical artifact, near meaningless. =AO I was, incidentally, surprised to see how he dealt with this result in =is autobiography. I think he called it his "Keplerian moment=" or something like that. Noam From: Jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.c=m] Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 12:10 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: Re: I think you might try to plan on late september, , ta=ing my apt and spending a few days with valeria in the city, A= it is the openiing of the UN general assembly , as well as the Clinton global initiative New york is rife with people with a= least influence, if not new ideas. . I, we. can organize man= fun interactions. my house becomes a respite for the select f=w, to take off their ties , and talk openly. You would be welcome to join as many create or participate as you prefer. =AO yangs work deals with language as signals . his relia=ce on Zipf like distributions is a good example of naive probablities. .=C2 empirically zipf appears. but cannot be derived from any of his or anyones elses to date. so somewhat misleading to suggest the&=uot; probililty of word , x appearing, " it is the =istake of frequency vs probablity, and careless common usage.=u> href On Sat Jun 20 2015 at 11:44 AM Noam Chomsky «= =; wrote: Sounds like a most interesting person= And someone it would be very interesting to talk to. I presum= he spends time in NY. Hope we can work it out. 9 EFTA_R1_01622631 EFTA02497631 Would be interested in learning more =bout your critique of the use of probability in language work, mostly by computational cognitive scientists, as far as I know. 1=80 ve written critiques of it too, but on different grounds: failure to =ccount for what they are trying to show, or even to understand the issue.=C2 There are, I think, some notable exceptions, like the recent work of Charles Yang, one of Bob Berwick's student=. From: Jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.c=m] Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 8:22 AM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: Re: He is the head of the human rights court in strasbou=g. / former prime minister of norway... He=would be happy to have a dinner with us. . subj. =C2 drones. solitary confinement , death penalty ( europe does not have one , so if killing terrorist= is to be under an act of war, argument , then they, as enemies ,hav= war rights. ). tribalism, mafia, syria, ukraine, saudi, egypt. =AO libya, . We have a great friendship. - I give him his financial ABC's class. he gives me my pragmatic =olitics lessons. fyi great similarity now as the old political=guard seem toreflect the patterns of the old long term=C2 investors, ( skills of . planning. executing . =A0 etc ) now confronted by media . and pressured to make quick decisions. ie behaving =AO like inexperienced short term traders. fyi I h=ve read a great number of language papers. many if not most, m=suse the concept of probability . making naive, erroneous uses of th= word , hence forming nonsensical conclusions. ( like the silly , life on =ther planets " calculation". probability needs repetition =nd symmetry, historical events do not have either ! )c=p> On Sat, Jun 20, 2015 at 1:08 AM, Noam Chomsky >= wrote: Glad it worked. Hope that the s=eech was of some interest. From: Jeffrey E. [mailto:jeevacation@gmail.c=m] Sent: Friday, June 19, 2015 6:38 PM To: Noam Chomsky Subject: you would have been proud my friend the sec ge= of the council of europe thjorborn jagland had to give as spe=ch on terrorism to the security counsel. Last night I presented your arguments, re hypocrisy, he was shocked but loved i=. please no=e 10 EFTA_R1_01622632 EFTA02497632 The information contained in this communication is confidential, may be attorney-client privileged, may constitute inside information, and is intended only for the use of the addressee. It is the property of JEE Unauthorized use, disclosure or copying of this communication or any part thereof is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. 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