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A POLITE INTERVIEW Skin So Thin, It’s Inside Out”’ Ethan Persoff talks with Paul Krassner about running The Realist, hacking The New York Times Bestseller list, and that “true, extraordinary liar,” Donald Trump. of American comedy: Lenny Bruce, The Second City, and The Realist. From its first issue in the Spring of 1958, Paul Krassner’s iconoclastic “journal of freethought and satire” created a comedic template that is still being followed today; its mix of fact and intelligent opinion delivered with a mordant, knowing skepticism, is as current as John Oliver and as omnipresent as the entire internet. But you don’t hear much about The Realist these days — it’s the fate of truly seminal sources to seem inevitable, when in fact they reshaped the world in their own image. Fortunately, in 2006 Krassner teamed with archivist/comic artist Ethan Persoff on The Realist Archive Project (http:// www.ep.tc/realist/), a free online repository of every issue of the magazine from its 43-year run. They recently collaborated again on a deluxe coffee table book, The Realist Cartoons, published by Fantagraphics. The election of Donald Trump seemed to be a particularly Krassnerian moment, so I asked Ethan to call Paul and ask afew leading questions. — MG [: the late Fifties, three things radically changed the course ETHAN PERSOFF: Paul, what’s your opinion of Trump? PAUL KRASSNER: Where to begin? Personally, for me, it goes back to when George Bush won the presidency in 2000. That was due to the electoral college, even though Al Gore had won the popular vote. That same time, Hillary Clinton was elected Senator. She announced, publicly, the first thing she was going to do was get rid of the electoral college. Years later, I was doing a column for The New York Press, and I sent Clinton a letter asking her about the status of her promise. She didn’t reply. During the campaign, Trump called Clinton a crook — EP: Right, “Lock her up”. PK: —he called her a crooked businessperson. But that’s what he was. Everything he says about anybody is really about him. He’s a true, extraordinary liar. EP: What's your opinion of his “fake news” media scolding? PK: Another example of projection. He calls the newspapers dishonest, because he is, in fact, the most dishonest. Trump became an insanely narcissistic dictator once he won, bragging about his electoral numbers as proof. But prior to that, he endlessly insisted the electoral college was a sham. That, to me, wins the prize for irony. EP: | have to wonder, what if Clinton had won the electoral count, but lost the popular vote? PK: Oh, then he would have said it was rigged. EP: Lock her up! PK: When I wrote the letter to her, it was partly because I'd heard the electoral college was based on slavery. EP: And there’s gerrymandering, which is also racist. PK: Yes. You know, the thing with Trump, is there’s talk of anything from impeachment, assassination, treason ... But that leads to more irony, because that would leave President Pence. Pence has just as much an interest in turning evolution around, and going back to barbaric times, but has the ability to pass as sane. Trump can’t do that. EP: Do you think Trump’s madness is an asset to his opposition? He’s such an easily identifiable lunatic, does that provide for a sense of protection, as opposed to Pence, who is so much more canny and quiet? PK: There’s fear of Trump, and then there’s dictatorship in action. The things he’s been doing are disgusting -- these ap- pointments! Like Rick Perry for Dept of Energy. It’s so insane. And then, Betsy DeVos. No education experience ... I think even starting in kindergarten. (Laughter) EP: Yes. Everyone has their own personal thing that they’re seared about with Trump. Me, it’s the environment. I can’t believe his appointment of Scott Pruitt with the EPA. PK: They’re all horrible. Then there’s Michael Flynn. He is the core of the hypocrisy of the relationship between Trumpo the Elephant and Putin. (continued) =~ WwW HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_023638