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want to give you a blow job so much.” And Trump says, “Yeah, but what’s in it for me?” (laughter) There’s an old saying in psychology. In order to deceive people, you have to deceive yourself. Here’s the thing: Trump has instant belief. He just be- lieves whatever he says. With Obama’s birth certificate controversy, he would believe it, even though he had to know it wasn’t true. Then, he said he’d hired investigators to $0 to Hawaii. EP: (embarrassed for history) | remem- ber that. PK: I think that was a lie, too! I don’t think he ever sent them. Or, if he did PK: The epitome of it, regarding coverage of Trump, was CEO Leslie Moonves, who said “It may not be good for America, but it’s damn good for CBS!” EP: You know, the week Trump won, to deal with shock, my mind started re- membering things that made me laugh. One of your stories showed up: The one when you met Bob Dylan and asked for his opinion about the Holocaust. PK: I was at a radio show. And he was watching in the room. It was me, Abbie Hoffman, a rabbi, and some others. During the panel, the Holocaust was integrated into the dialogue. Dylan was there watching, sitting in a dark corner in ternative facts”? It was such a bizarre oxymoron, he couldn't stop laughing. EP: My favorite one of her’s is the Bowling Green Massacre. The Internet was hilari- ous on that. For the Holocaust, of course, it’s “Never Forget”; so, for the Bowling Green Massacre, people were posting pictures of green bowling balls, with the phrase “Never Remember”. PK: Oh, that’s good. It’s like what I was mentioning about optimism. The answer is what we saw right after the inaugura- tion, with the march and the rallies. Trump is essentially the monster we’ve created. Whereas Frankenstein was made from corpses, Trump was made from fringe subcultures: First send them, and they didn’t find any “evidence,” then he lied by omission...of facts. EP: [| wonder if these lies are going to have consequences — if impeachment will happen. Getting Congress to do it will be nearly impossible. PE: There’s little hints that the Republicans — their con- science is gettin ‘em. Those are my hopes. EP: The fear I have is we're going to lose this country through this motherfucker. That we're going to have a police state — that we won't have a free press. Do you think these are real fears? PK: Oh, yeah. Well, you know, a police state has a bad reputa- el from the white supremacists .. Trump was on the radio with some insane conspiracy theorist, and the host said, “My listeners, they really love you.” Trump then went to the Evan- gelists, ‘cause that was another subculture. He couldn’t think of anything, the first time, from the Bible. Next time, though, he brought a Bible with him. He was smart enough to take the cellophane off it. EP: | think for the most part, you've always been on the right side of history, actions you've taken and _ political/ moral positions — everything from civil rights, to women’s rights, to drug freedom. But I tion. I mean, cops love it! The thing is — ever since I took a lot of acid — I have become an over-doer of being optimistic. You can pick your metaphor, but I think Trump’s a blessing in disguise. With these scares, he’s the monster — The Frankenstein — that we’ve created. It’s from the country’s dumbing-down of the media. Especially with the com- mercials. You know, when they first had TV news, they didn’t have commercials. EP: I’ve been trying to get more into the habit of watching PBS News Hour. It’s amazing to have a full hour of commer- cial-free news, and not looping news, like CNN. What’s sad is I find I have to build up the stamina for it. I actually find myself wanting commercial breaks. PBS had less coverage of Trump’s campaign, too. Probably because there were no ads to sell. ‘artoon by Mort Gerberg, from The Realist #50, May 1964. the back of the room. When the program was over, he walked up and said to me, “You didn’t say much.” And I thought that was funny, because he was such a minimalist. Then I held up my fist, like a micro- phone, and asked, “So, what do you think about the Holocaust?” He offered his minimalistic reply: “I resent it.” EP: That’s just too good a joke. PK: I remember that, more than the radio panel, because it had such an essence of itself. EP: That’s the benefit of minimalism, right? It’s like these insane Trump tweets. In some way, they’re stronger because they’re just 140 characters. PK: By the way, did you see Anderson Cooper laugh for five minutes when Kellyanne Conway used the phrase “al- don’t know how you decided to do some of this shit. For example, you ran an abortion referral service inside The Realist. No reward beyond a moral victory. PK: Back then, when it was illegal, people thought doctors who performed abortions should be arrested and convicted. EP: Let’s discuss the development of your ethics. What’s your internal compass? Have you always had these instincts? PK: It happens organically. I remember when LOOK Magazine said about abor- tion, “There are no humane doctors ... all of them are just in it for the money.” And I knew of one: Doctor Spencer in Ashland, Pennsylvania. He had a reputa- tion. It turned out, to be, also, that he was a subscriber. So, I wrote him a letter, asking for an interview, because I wanted to point out that LOOR’s statement was a lie. And I Ww HOUSE_OVERSIGHT_023640