EFTA00064194.pdf

1 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: BY: DIGITALLY RECORDED WITNESS: SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SEPTEMBER 29, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 NONE 3 4 1 MR. The recorder has started. 1 wain, I am DOJ/OIC Senior Special Agent, 2 My name is , and I am a Senior 2 3 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 3 : I am Assistant Special Agent- 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 4 in-Charge, . . 5 York Field Office, and these are my 5 MR. • 6 credentials. 6 Electronics tech. Bureau of Prisons. . 7 MR. : Okay. I see them. 7 . 8 MR. : This interview with 8 MR. : This is Special Agent 9 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, 9 10 is being conducted as part of an 10 MR. All right. Thank you. 11 official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of 11 This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into 12 the Inspector General, or DOJ/OIG 12 the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the 13 investigation. Today's date is September 29th, 13 surrounding circumstances, and you are being 14 2021. And the time is 8:16 a.m. This 14 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 15 interview is being conducted at the OIG New 15 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 16 York Field Office, located at 1 Battery Park 16 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 17 Plaza, New York, New York. Also present is 17 MR. : Yes. 18 DOJ/OIG ASAC or Assistant Special Agent-in- 18 MR. : Thank you, sir. So, this 19 Charge, . He is in person. And 19 is the official Warnings and Assurances to 20 Special Agent is joining us by 20 Employees Requested to Provide Information on a 21 22 telephone. He is also with the DOJ/OIG. This interview will be recorded b me, Senior 21 22 Voluntary Basis. And in this line, I'm i, to say, this investigation pertains to, , 23 Special Agent . Could 23 it's job performance failure and security 24 everyone please identify themselves for the 24 failure, correct? 25 record, and spell their last name? To start, 25 MR. : Yes. EFTA00064194 6 1 MR. : Job performance failure. 2 All right. So, it says, United States 3 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 4 General, Warnings and Assurances to Employees 5 Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary 6 Basis. "You are being asked to provide 7 information as part of an investigation being 8 conducted by the Office of the Inspector 9 General. This investigation is being conducted 10 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 11 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 12 performance failure and security failure. This 13 is a voluntary interview. 14 Accordingly, you do not have to answer 15 questions. No disciplinary action will be 16 taken against you if you choose not to answer 17 questions. Any statement you furnish may be 18 used as evidence in any future criminal 19 proceedings, or agency disciplinary 20 proceedings, or both." And there is a waiver 21 section. And it says, "I understand the 22 Warnings and Assurances stated above and I am 23 willing to make a statement and answer 24 questions. No promises or threats have been 25 made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any 7 1 MR. • -- during this interview? 2 MR. Yes. 3 MR. : Thank you, sir. Again, 4 it's a voluntary interview, if you don't 5 understand any of my questions, please ask me 6 to rephrase. 7 MR. Yeah. 8 MR. : Or ask for any 9 clarification. I would be happy to provide it. 10 Were you previously interviewed by the OIG at 11 the MCC on Jul 15th, 2019? 12 MR. • Yes. 13 MR. : Great. And that was by 14 me and Special A ent . Correct? 15 MR. : Yes. 16 MR. : Great. Is it correct 17 that the MCC camera -. Or sorry. Before I go 18 on that, are ou still at the MCC? 19 MR. : Yes, I am. 20 MR. : Are you still the 21 electronics technician? 22 MR. M i Yes, I am. 23 MR. : Great. Has anything 24 changed since we spoke on July 15th, 2019? 25 MR. : No. 1 kind has been used against me." 2 So, take a look. If you understand it, 3 and are agreeing, and are willing to continue, 4 can you just please sign where it says employee 5 signature? Thank you very much for signing. 6 DO you understand the form? 7 MR. Mm-hmm. Yes, I do. 8 MR. : Okay. Do you understand 9 this is a voluntary interview? 10 MR. M i Yes. 11 MR. : Perfect. Thank you. 12 Okay. Today's date, again, is September 29th. 13 So, I'm writing 09/29/21. The place is OIG, 14 MYFO. And the time is 8:19 a.m. And I am 15 signing my name as the Special Agent. ASAC 16 can ou sign as a witness, please? 17 : Mm-hmm. 18 MR. : Thank you, sir. 19 Thank you. 20 MR. : All right. Before 21 starting the interview, I would like to place 22 you under oath. Mr. , can you please 23 raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell 24 the truth and nothing but the truth -- 25 MR. : Yes. 8 1 MR. : No. Great. Is it 2 correct that the MCC cameras were not working 3 properly ini m i • J ust 2019? 4 MR. : Yeah. Well, the recorders 5 wasn't working. The cameras were working. The 6 recorders weren't working. 7 MR. : So, the live feed was 8 working, but the recordings were not. 9 MR. a Yes. 10 MR. : Correct. When did you 11 first learn that the MCC cameras were not 12 working pia" 13 MR. : That day. This was, I 14 believe, that day. Towards the end of my 15 shift. I'm not sure what time. 16 MR. : So, you still think it 17 was August 9th, 2019, that you learned? 18 MR. Yes. 19 MR. : After giving it some 20 thought, do you think maybe it happened the day 21 before, oiliiiiiii8th, 2019? 22 MR. : I don't know if I spoke to 23 somebody. I don't know why it would be the 24 8th. 25 MR. All right. When we go EFTA00064195 9 1 over the reports, we will see if that can help 2 freshen, you know, help you recall. First, 3 we're just going to ask you some questions for, 4 like, you know, so you can, from memory, recall 5 exactly -- 6 MR. M i l What happened. 7 MR. : -- when it was, and then 8 we will go over the reports, and see if that 9 helps jog anything. But to your recollection, 10 it was on Au ust 9th, 2019? 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : And what is -- 13 MR. : It was that Friday. 14 MR. • -- what is it that makes 15 you think that it was on that Friday? 16 MR. : Because that's when I went 17 to the room. That's the only thing I really 18 remember. Because it was a lot of hours after 19 that. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. That day. 22 MR. So, it was just -- 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 MR. • -- it was a lot of things 25 going on. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 MR. : Yeah. There was a lot of things going on. But I remember the 9th because everything happened the next day. MR. MR. Okay. On Saturday. MR. And are you aware, now, after the fact, that the cameras stopped recording on Jul 29th, 2019? MR. : No. MR. : So, you're not aware of that? MR. : No. Nobody. It's the first time somebod has told me that. MR. : Okay. So, by reviewing the recording system, or anything like that, you didn't learn that they stopped on July 29th? MR. : No. The recorders were still working. Because the recorders were still working for the building. All the -. Not all the cameras were working, but some of the recorders were working. (Indiscernible *00:06:26iiIIIIIIII MR. : So, when we spoke last time, you explained to us that on, like, August 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. on DVR-2. MR. MR. those DVRs, 11 9th, is when you first noticed it, and that half of the cameras, or -- : Half of them was on -- . -- half the cameras on -- -- DVR-1. DVR-1, and half were DVR-2. And one of the, one of which included half of the cameras MR. Cameras. MR. -- they stopped -- MR. Yeah. Stopped working. MR. -- working. MR. Yeah. MR. So, what is your knowledge or recollection of when those half of cameras -? MR. : I don't know when those half the cameras stopped working? MR. : So, when you were trying to obtain video after the fact, you never learned, like when they're -- MR. : This is the first time -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12 MR. MI -- the last video? MR. : -- yeah, this is the first time I heard that was July. MR. Okay. MR. Yeah. MR. So, when is the first time you found out, then, that the recordings were, in fact not working? MR. IIIIIIIII: When I went to go try to fix it on that Friday. MR. : Okay. On the 9th? MR. : Yeah. MR. : Okay. But on the 9th, did you -. I thought you had told us you couldn't gain access to it on the 9th. So, when did you actually gain access to the room, to be able to -- MR. : I went up there -- MR. -- determine -? MR. : -- in the afternoon, to _22 do work. They said I couldn't stay because III had to leave, so the video room. MR. MR. MR. Okay. Yeah. So, III had to leave, so EFTA00064196 13 14 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you couldiiiiiiiiito do the work? MR. : Yeah. I couldn't stay to do the work, because I don't have a key, I don't have access to the room. Because it's the propeiiiiiiiiii MR. : And when you say "they," who was it that told you this? MR. : I was talking to Officer I. But it's no -. Everybody knows that SIS, that's their room, and I don't have access to go in the room. At the time, I didn't have access to fix the recorders. MR. Okay. Did you ever talk to a MR. That day? MR. : Any day, about these recordings. MR. : Yeah. I've talked to people numerous times about me getting access to the room, that I should have access to the room. MR. : No, I'm talking about, like, on August 8th or August 9th, about the cameras. Do you recall having a conversation - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a I don't recall. MR. : -- with 7 MR. : No. MR. : No. Or III MI? The MR. I don't remember. MR. No. Okay. So, you don't remember learning that, on July 29th, 2019, the cameras sto ed recording? MR. : This is the first time -- MR. : From (Indiscernible *00:08:19). MR. Mi -- I heard it. MR. : That's the very first time you heard? MR. : That it was July. Yeah. MR. : Okay. MR. : Because that's, like, two weeks out, I wouldn't - not know it was recording for two weeks. That doesn't make any sense. MR. : Okay. So, you don't think that that would be accurate? MR. : No. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 15 MR. All right. Do you know what stopiiiiiiiiifrom recording? MR. : I just know that the system wal_21ils_mil it had a lot of problems. MR. IIIIIIIIII: Okay. Do you know if someone did, like, an improper shutdown, or that poweiliiiiiiireated it to shut off? MR. : They were on UPSs, and no power surge that would have created it. It would have just been mechanical. MR. MR. MR. MR. and tear. MR. Okay. And again, on August 8th, you don't recall ever having conversations with anybody regarding these cameras, or first learning on August 8th that the cameras went down? MR. : August 8th? The day before? I don't really recall (Indiscernible *00:09:09iiIIIIIIII MR. : And you don't recall having the conversation with SIS Yes. Okay. Or, yeah, yeah. : Just from age? : Just from age, and wear 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 16 and IIII, about the cameras not recording on Au ust 8th, 2019? On Thursday? MR. : No. I don't recall. MR. : You don't. Do you remember them, towards the end of your shift, bringing you in the office because they couldn't get the recordings to rewind, and asked you to fix the problem? : On the 8th? • On the 8th. Hmm. I don't recall that. MR. MR. MR. No. MR. Do you remember having - at any time - a conversation prior to E stein's il2/h. with and MR. time? No. I MR. MR. , with SIS : Together? At the same don't recall it. Yeah. What about separately? : Separately, probably. We probably talked about it. But not together. At the same time. MR. : Well, do you recall the conversations that you had, then, prior to Epstein dying on the - or being found - on the EFTA00064197 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 10th. What conversations did you have with each of those individuals? MR. : Right. I was just busy working. On the 10th, the day it happened, or -? MR. No. Prior to the 10th. So, the 8th, the 9th, or anywhere back to the July 29thi_1±211/L MR. IIIIIIIII: Oh. That we were working o the problem, trying to figure out what was causing it, and that's when I ordered new hard drives to replace all the drives. That was my next step. That's what I was going to do that day. But I couldn't. MR. : And what made you do that, though? Who told you to replace the hard drives? MR. : Talking_slircigah SigNet, and the former com tech, IIIIIIIIII, he's the computer services manager and we talked about buying hard drives. I actually got a purchase order, too. Yeah. MR. So, who was the computer service mai MR. • 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. and last name? MR. MR. 1. MR. Yeah MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. I'm sorry. end. MR. And 18 Can you spell the first IIII. And And did you say : II Yes. That's an or -? Yeah. So, no • Noll : Okay. And that's an II And that was the CSM? : YuL it's anl. Not an At the • All right. So, MR. Yes. MR. Okay. Great. And who was that kao ? MR. : He was the previous com tech before I got there, and now, he was - at 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 19 that present time - he was the computer services mana er. MR. • He was? MR. Yes. MR. • Okay. So, he was actually workin at the MCC? MR. : Yes. MR. MR. And he was your boss? : No. It's just, I talked to him about computer stuff, because he knows a little bit more than I do. That's his specialty. MR. : Okay. What was his kind of, like,iol e at the time? MR. : His job role was to take care of the computers. Infrastructure of the building. MR. MR. MR. Okay. Yeah. : And what was the conversation with him, and where? MR. : I think, that's when we were talking about actually just replacing all of the hard drives because they keep failing all the time. So, the next step was to replace 20 1 all the hard drives. 2 MR. : And do you remember when 3 you had that conversation? 4 MR. : A few days before this 5 happened. And we've had numerous conversations 6 about this for weeks because - and probably 7 months - because of the way the hard drives 8 kept failing. The drives would, the recorders 9 would stop working. 10 MR. : So, did you know, then, a 11 few days before this? I'm assuming, when you 12 say "this," August 9th, 2019, that the hard 13 drives had failed? 14 MR. : I knew it was a 15 possibility they failed. At the time, or the 16 before I left I knew everything was working. 17 MR. : Before you left when? 18 MR. : I'm not too sure, but I'm 19 just saying, like, overall, as far as, like, as 20 far as everything recording, because I've 21 checked the recorders. It looked like 22 everythingiiiiiiirding. 23 MR. : What day are you speaking 24 about, thou h? 25 MR. : Oh, specifically, before EFTA00064198 21 22 1 the incidiiiiiiiiiied, on the 9th. 2 MR. : So, on the 9th, 3 everythin was 4 MR. : Well, when I checked it, 5 of course it wasn't recording. That's why I 6 went up there to check. 7 MR. It was not? 8 MR. It was not recording. 9 MR. Okay. So, when is the 10 first time you found out that it was not 11 recording? 12 MR. : Oh. I guess the 9th. 13 Everybody keep saying the 8th, but I don't 14 really remember the 8th. 15 MR. Okay. So, the 9th, and 16 is that when ou -- 17 MR. : Because I -. 18 MR. -- are saying you had the 19 conversation with 20 MR. : Yes. Well, I had the 21 conversation before, with , about what I 22 was going to do next. 23 MR. MI Okay. 24 MR. : Because it happened 25 before, so the next step was just to replace 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 all the hard drives. MR. Like, it happened long before, or when are you talking about -- MR. : It happened -- MR. -- (Indiscernible *00:13:11iIIIIIIII MR. : -- multiple times before, where the recorders would stop working. MR. Okay. MR. Yes. MR. So, you were trying to preemptive) sto that from happening? MR. : Happening again, yes. MR. Okay. So -- MR. So -. MR. : -- you didn't talk to him based upon the system stopping recording. You were talking about it -- Mm-hmm. -- doing preventative MR. MR. maintenance? MR. MR. MR. MR. Maintenance. Yes. Is that correct? Yes. Okay. But you don't 23 1 remember exact) you spoke with him? 2 MR. : No. Some time around that 3 time, because I have to get the purchase, I 4 have to get the parts to make the repairs, or 5 change the drives out. 6 MR. : All right. So, until we 7 go over this, I'm going to run through these, 8 just so we keep on track. But it sounds like 9 I'm going to have to show you these documents, 10 to help ma be clarify some things. 11 MR. : Mm-hmm. 12 MR. : Do you know, did you know 13 that the recorders - that the cameras weren't 14 recordingliiiiiiii August 9th, 2019? 15 MR. : Yeah. I know there was 16 failures iiiiiiiiiitem. Yes. 17 MR. : So, you knew that they 18 were not 19 MR. : Not that day. But I know 20 that, overall, there was going to be system 21 failures. 22 MR. : And did you know that it 23 was half of them all on DVR-1 or 2? 24 MR. : I wasn't too sure what it 25 was. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 MR. : Okay. MR. : But I know there was a failure. I didn't check to see exactly where they were. MR. : So, you knew there was a failure with the system, prior to August 9th. You just didn't know what the failure was? MR. : Yes. MR. And how did you know that? MR. : Well, I would have to go check if there was video, there was no recorder videos, live videos, but there was no recorder video. MR. : So, you personally had checked to see if there were recorded video? MR. : Yes. MR. : And when did you do that? MR. : I had, well, I had checked that day, before I had to go upstairs to look at everythin MR. MR. August 9th? August 9th. Yes. MR. So, that's where I'm saying. So, when you say, prior to the time, EFTA00064199 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 MR. Yes. MR. MR. I'm not too sure. MR. 25 you're talking about the same day, August 9th, is when you checked the -- MR. : Checked the recording. MR. -- the recording. MR. Yeah. MR. : Prior to August 9th, did you check the recording to see if it (Indiscernible *00:14:46)? : Multiple times before. . And were they recorded? From what I believe, yes. Okay. Would you check that system to check on the recordings, every day? MR. that says MR. : No. There was no thing I have to check it. Sure. MR. : The thing with the recorders is, I'm not really supposed to, like, 22 mess with the system. I just, I'm maintenance. 23 I'm not really supposed to, like, oh, tail 24 SIS, that's their job to tell me, hey, 25 there is no video, or something, there is a 26 1 problem. 2 MR. So, how did you know that 3 the recording wasn't being able to rewind, and 4 check recording? Why were you in there 5 checking that? 6 MR. : I just, I guess I spoke to 7 somebody, or maybe I checked it. I'm not too 8 sure. 9 MR. : But it would have been 10 based upon someone requesting you to do so? 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. And you believe that 13 happened on the 9th? 14 MR. Yes. 15 MR. Okay. 16 : And iL i and the call 17 dropped. Let me 'et back on. 18 MR. Absolutel . 19 MR. : A ent 20 : Hey, . You hear us fine 21 now? 22 MR. : Yes. I apologize. I 23 don't know why the call dropped. 24 MR. : Mm-hmm. 25 : Okay. 27 1 MR. All right. So, we were 2 iiiiiialking about the recording and how Mr. 3 would not go in and review a recording 4 without someone requesting him to do so. He 5 doesn't recall specifically who made that 6 request for him to review the recording, but he 7 believes that he reviewed the recording on the 8 9th, and that's when he determined that it 9 wasn't recordin roperly. Is that correct? 10 MR. : Yes. 11 MR. : All right. And you - and 12 again - you don't remember why you were 13 reviewing that recording? 14 MR. : No. Because we're in the 15 middle of a -. Well, no, this -. Before 16 Epstein happened, we were in the middle of a 17 camera project, we had people TDY. So, I was, 18 like, the lead in the building, trying to tell 19 everybody what needs to get done. And I think 20 the day before, I was on 10 South, I was 21 putting in a (Indiscernible *00:16:52), so I 22 was busy that I had a TDY guy on me. 23 MR. : And when you - on the 24 8th? 25 MR. : Yeah. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. you. MR. Yeah. You got a TD guy with 28 MR. And who was that TD guy Y? (Indiscernible *00:16:59). MR. . His last name was , and I don't remember his first name. He was an electrician. MR. : An electrician. Do you know which facility he came from? : No. I'm not too sure. You don't know the first MR. MR. name? MR. : I forgot his first name. We just call ever body by their last name. MR. But he's not from MCC? MR. No. He's not in from MCC. MR. After the interview, can you just see if you can identify who that person is, and then send me an email? MR. : Okay. MR. Of the person's name. But the Au ust 8th, 2019, you believe this -- MR. : Yeah. MR. : -- this TOY employee, EFTA00064200 29 30 1 wiiiiiiiliou? 2 MR. : Yeah. He was with me. We 3 were together all day because we were doing the 4 piping, and tr in to put the rack in. 5 MR. : And what is a rack? 6 MR. : Where the -. Well, for 7 the new camera system, that's where the power 8 supply, the switch would go, the camera feed, 9 the (Indiscernible *00:17:38) five cables would 10 go. Ever thin will go on the rack. 11 MR. : So, it had to do with the 12 camera system? 13 MR. : The upgrading the new 14 camera system. Yes. 15 MR. : Is that anything that 16 could have possibly caused the cameras to stop 17 recording? 18 MR. : No. That's -. Nothing 19 was hooked up. It was just the hardware. 20 There was no or nothing. 21 MR. : Okay. So, that could not 22 have affected the camera? 23 MR. Mi The cameras? No. 24 MR. : All right. And do you 25 remember, prior to August 9th, checking on the 1 camera system, though, to make sure it was 2 recording? 3 MR. : Yes. After we had the 4 problem, 5 MR. : No, no, no. Prior to the 6 9th. 7 MR. : Yes. Prior to the 9th. 8 MR. And when did you check 9 on, prior, like, how many days before? Do you 10 remember? 11 MR. : I don't really remember. 12 MR. • Are you talking about, 13 like, a few days leading up, a day leading up, 14 or are you talkin about, like, a month or two? 15 MR. : Maybe, like, weeks. Not 16 months. It wouldn't have been a month. 18 MR. M! 17 MR. : Like, a few weeks? Yeah, because I had to 19 order the parts. I don't know when I ordered 20 the parts. But I had to know that they weren't 21 working. 22 MR. : But I thought you just 23 said that they were working, and you only 24 ordered tiiiiiiiiieventative maintenance? 25 MR. : Well, I - yeah -. Well, 31 1 they weren't working before. So, I had to 2 rebuild one of the drives. I had to change one 3 of the drives out. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : That's when I went to say, 6 let me order a whole bunch of drives, to 7 replace all the drives together, at once. 8 MR. : And are you able to 9 determine when made that order? 10 MR. : Yes. We have a purchase 11 order. Yes. 12 MR. : All right. So, those two 13 I l ls so far. Can you give me the name of 14 , and the second thing is the purchase 15 order, with re and to -- 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. : -- when you made that 18 order -- 19 MR. : Yeah. 20 MR. • -- for the new drives? 21 MR. Mm-hmm. 22 I'll send you an email 23 after this. 24 MR. Okay. 25 MR. : lust kind of reminding 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 you of what it is we're hoping to get. And there, but again, you ordered that because there was a problem with the -- MR. : Recorders. MR. -- with the recorders MR. Yes. MR. -- you fixed that problem. MR. : Temporarily. But I knew it was going to happen again. And the best thing to iiiiiiiiiilace all the drives. MR. : Okay. So, you knew that it would iiiiiiiiirding again? MR. : I knew there was going to be a problem a ain. Yes. MR. : Okay. And what made you know that talking the age of the unit, MR. : Talking to the vendor, and because it was, like, 15 years old. And the fact that it's on 365, 24 days, and on 24 hours a day, like, it just constantly goes on. And then, when you try to do maintenance, something as simple as changing the time, the recording would stop for, like, a whole day, day and a EFTA00064201 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 33 half. Because for the drives rebuilding, you have to chap e the time. MR. : Okay. MR. : And before all of this happened, I actually put in a camera project. That's why I was in the middle of a camera project, to everything. MR. : Now, when you say that the people you spoke to, you mentioned and then, you said the customer service people MR. : Yeah. SigNet. MR. -- Signet. MR. : Yeah. Mainly , and I would talk to him. MR. was your main point of contact? MR. : Yes. MR. What about a ?Iiiiiiiliou recall -? MR. : was the one that came after Epstein. That's the guy that showed up when we had to put in the new drives. Because we ordered the new -. We ordered the new recorders. But everything was downstairs in 34 1 the basement. And we weren't really a priority 2 on the list until, of course, Epstein happened. 3 That's when SigNet came the next day, and put 4 the new recorders in. 5 MR. Okay. So, prior to 6 August 10th, 2019 our main point of contact 7 was SigNet, with 8 MR. 9 MR. 10 MR. . Yes. 11 MR. : And what was his role and 12 responsibiiiiiiiiih SigNet? 13 MR. : He is just, like, the guy 14 we will call if there is a problem, or if 15 training, or if I don't know the system. 16 Because, like, this system, I never had 17 training on it. So, like, when I saw it, 18 because the last institution I was, was, like, 19 maybe two versions ahead of this one. So, when 20 I saw this recording, I was, like, this stuff 21 is old, like, I don't know anything about it. 22 Like what should I do? So, I called 23 and IIIIII, like, pretty much would walk me 24 through trouble shooting, if there is a 25 problem. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. again? MR. : Raid (Phonetic Sp. *00:21:08). MR. like that? MR. a raid system. that's what he MR. MR. MR. 35 And what was the system Nice Pro, or something : I don't -. I know it was A raid array. I remember kept saying. Raid array. • Okay. It was raid. • And do you know what that means? MR. : Just the way the drives would go. So, if, the way he explained that to me, if one drive would go bad, that's not so bad. But as soon as two drives go bad, that's when all the recordings pretty much stops. MR. • So -- MR. : Because it was a redundant system. MR. -- okay. So, when one drive goes bad, does any, do any recordings stop? MR. : No. It will keep 36 1 recording. 2 MR. So, it will automatically 3 shift over to the other drive? 4 MR. : To the other slot. Yes. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : And then, when two drives 7 go bad, that's when all the recordings stop. 8 MR. : So, what is the 9 difference between ours, where is one -. Is 10 what you're talking about a DVR-1 and a DVR-2? 11 MR. : No. That's the drive in 12 the DVRs, because there's 16 drives. That's 13 what - I think - that's what it was. So, out 14 of the 16 like, in DVR-1, if one goes bad, 15 that's not a problem. As soon as the second 16 drive goes bad, then that's when you have a 17 problem. And that's when the recording would 18 stop. 19 MR. Okay. So, what is your 20 understandin of what happened here? 21 : Oh. The drive went bad. 22 : One of them? 23 Two of them. Yeah. 24 Two of them -- 25 : I believe. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. EFTA00064202 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 37 MR. IIIIIIIIII: -- did go bad? MR. IIIIIIIII: Yes. Because that's why - MR. : And is it two of 16, or is it two out of two? MR. : Two out of 16. MR. : So, if two out of 16 go bad -- MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. recording sto s. MR. : And the DVR-1 and DVR-2, that's sim l the recording system? MR. : Yes. MR. : That's not the anything to do with the -. The drives are what's making MR. Go bad. -- then -- Mm-hmm. -- they all. The recordings stop. Yes. : For all of them? Yes. : Okay. : On that drive. All the : (Indiscernible *00:22:32) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. they're savin MR. MR. MR. : -- the recording, but it to DVR-1 -- Yes. -- and DVR-2. Yes. 38 MR. : So, what is the difference between if a DVR-1 goes bad, but not DVR-2? Is that ust -? MR. : The physical location over it. Because everything on the old system was analog. So, like, cameras one through whatever are on this drive, on DVR-1, and our other cameras are on DVR-2. MR. : So, does each DVR have 16 drives? MR. : Yes. MR. : All right. So -- MR. So -. MR. • -- DVR-1 has 16 drives. DVR-2 has 16 drives. MR. Mi Yes. MR. : And either DVR-1 or DVR- 2, two of those drives went bad? MR. : Yes. MR. : And stopped that DVR-2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 39 from recordin . MR. : From recording. Yes. MR. : But the drives on DVR-1 were all ood? MR. MR. MR. All good. Yes. Okay. : And another thing I've learned also, through my time, is that SigNet replied to me this, you could look at the camera software, until you physically look at the drives, you would think that everything is recording. That's something we went over recently. MR. : Well, what about a -. I was told that there was an application that you would have, that was called Supervision. MR. _: Yeah. I don't look at Supervision. MR. You don't. MR. : You can. I have access to look at it, but I didn't get trained on it, so I don't really look at Superivision. I would just go in the regular Nice Vision, and look at it that MR. : Yeah. We were told that, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 in order to determine if there were problems with the drives MR. : The drives. You would have to -- MR. -- that's through -- MR. -- yes. MR. -- yeah, you go into Supervision, and that would, in fact, tell you? MR. : And which, I have no training on. MR. So, you've never -- MR. Obviously. MR. -- looked at that? MR. No. MR. Did anyone else have health -- MR. At the time, no. MR. -- did anyone else have access? MR. MR. person with access MR. MR. No. So, you were the only to Supervision? Yes. Pretty much. Yes. All right. And do you know if someone accessed the application EFTA00064203 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 Supervision, they could have taken the drives offline, or the recordings offline? MR. : Hmm, yeah. But yeah, nobody would have that access. MR. : Would they be able to do it from there though? MR. : Yes. They probably would, yes. MR. But you are confident no one had access to it? MR. M i No. MR. : Okay. So, you would be the one and only person with access to Supervision? MR. a Yes. MR. : And there is no, like, if you're not there, somebody else has -- MR. : There is nobody -- MR. • -- a way to -- MR. -- there is nobody. Yeah. MR. • -- how would they do that? Frill? To get access again. MR. : Oh, no. They would just have to know the to log in. MR. IIIIIIIIII: Well, that's what I mean. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 42 So, if you ended up not being able to show up, or you left, or something like that, how would someone gain access to that? MR. : That's something they would have to try to figure out, but yeah. I don't -. MR. : But to your knowledge, you're the only person that had the password to access Su ervisioN? MR. : Yes. MR. Okay. And SigNet wouldn't be able to remote in? MR. : No. They have no access to remote it. That's BOP. They don't want them to be able to backdoor remote in to anything. MR. Okay. And when did you MR. : Oh. Well, they -. The old system, they were able to, if you had a 56K (Phonetic Sp. *00:25:06) modem, they were able to do maintenance, and tell me, like, the status of the drives. But I would have to physically hook up S6k modem. But at the time, that wasn't hooked up. Because we did some 43 1 repairs before, when I was trying to figure 2 stuff out, and I couldn't figure it out, where 3 they would - through a modem - they would 4 remote into the -. Well, I would have to grant 5 them access to look at the drives, to 6 (Indiscernible *00:25:26) of the drives. 7 MR. • So, how -- 8 MR. : And we've done that 9 before. Yes. 10 MR. -- so, you had to grant 11 them access. The couldn't go in there -- 12 MR. : No 13 MR. • -- without your -. 14 MR. : Physically. And 15 physicall ou have to put a cable in. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. Yeah. 18 MR. So, you are the one and 19 only person with access, remotely, that could 20 have accessed those servers? 21 MR. M i Yes. 22 MR. : Okay. And do you 23 remember the last time you would have accessed 24 that application? 25 MR. : I have no idea. 44 1 MR. No? Would it have been 2 leading u to Au ust 9th, 2019? 3 MR. Probably. Yeah. 4 MR. : And do you know around 5 how long before that? 6 MR. M i l No. 7 MR. : Is there a way to 8 determine? Do they have, like, some thing that 9 you can see when your last log ons were, or 10 anything like that? 11 MR. : You could call computer 12 services, then they could tell you my 13 keystrokes or whatever, whatever I logged into. 14 But that'iilliliiiihe only time. Yeah. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. IIM7 But there is really 17 nothing to sa when I logged in. 18 MR. : But to your recollection, 19 you were not accessing Supervision at all? 20 MR. : Hmm. I mean, they showed 21 me how to do some stuff on it, but I don't 22 really even think I remembered how to - at that 23 time - I don't really remember. 24 MR. : But the point being, in 25 this case, you didn't find out the recordings EFTA00064204 45 46 1 had stopped because of that application, 2 Supervision. Correct? 3 MR. M i I don't believe so. No. 4 MR. : Okay. And you did not 5 take the cameras, or recordings, offline from 6 Supervision. Correct? 7 MR. : No. I can't. Yeah. No. 8 I've never been able to do that. So, no. 9 MR. : So, you don't even -. 10 Sorry. I thought you told me before you could 11 do it. DO ou think -- 12 MR. : You have access to do it, 13 yes, if you are in Supervision. Yeah. There 14 is stuff you can do on Supervision to stop the 15 recordings. Yes. 16 MR. : Now, if you weren't 17 really familiar with the application, is it 18 possible that you were in there, and you 19 accidental) knocked them offline? 20 MR. : No. 21 MR. • Okay. 22 MR. : I wouldn't knock anything 23 offline. 24 MR. No. You don't believe 25 so? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. a No. MR. : Okay. And what would be a reason for you to go into the application, Supervision? MR. : Just to see what was going on, who's logging on, or just to, if something looks funky to me, or just doesn't feel right, to see what was going on. MR. MR. MR. Okay. Yeah. And do you have any examples, prior to August 9th, 2019, when you would have done that? MR. : I know there was one time, like, when they remoted in, they were showing me stuff on the drives. And I was talking to SigNet over the phone, and they were showing me how to fix the drives before. MR. : Okay. MR. : But other than that, like, I don't really remember me using Supervision that much. MR. : And that would have been, they would have had a log of when that happened? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 47 MR. : Yeah. Supervision has a - . Every time you log into Supervision, you see a username and who logged in. That's always kept on Su ervision. MR. : Okay. And do you have that now, to be able to -- Yes. • -- determine? Yes. • So, it shows that Well, that -- -- it shows -. -- well, whatever system you can log into it, and see what you access to MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. you have, have on it in Su ervision. MR. : And when you logged in, and when ou lo ed out? MR. : Yeah. MR. : So, would you still have the ability now, to go back to see when you logged in and lo ed out? MR. : For the old system, no. MR. • No? Not for the old system. MR. : Old system, no. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. should be regard to MR. MR. there. MR. MR. went in there, you? MR. out. But not MR. again, August that you knew recording. 48 MR. Okay. But SigNet would probably have a call log of you -- Of who's on. -- talking with them? Yes. Going over -- Supervision. • -- Supervision? -- yes. All right. So, SigNet able to provide us something, with Supervision. Yes. • -- when they had you in Yeah. And do you think that you though, aside from them showing : Maybe to check some stuff really. : Okay. All right. So, 9th is the first time you think that the cameras weren't EFTA00064205 49 1 MR. : Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : If we were to tell you 3 that the cameras actually stopped the recording 4 on July 29th, 2019, you said that's news to 5 you? 6 MR. : Yes. That's kind of a 7 long time for me not to notice that the cameras 8 -. That's like a week and a half. 9 MR. Something like that. 10 MR. Yeah. 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 MR. . For me not to notice that 13 they stop ed recording. 14 MR. • So -. 15 MR. : But I could see where, if 16 I didn't do it, because we were busy with a 17 project, maybe I didn't check it. But that's 18 kind of hard. And for SIS, or nobody to tell 19 me, like, hey, the cameras weren't recording, 20 or we've tried to pull video and it wasn't 21 working. That's kind of weird, too. 22 MR. : All right. All right. 23 So, since you don't remember these, we're going 24 to start ilao -- 25 MR. : Sure. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 August 9th MR. MR. MR. Yes. MR. : Okay. MR. Somebody did tell me about the drives. MR. And who was it that told you? MR. : I think it was SIS. Somebody in SIS. It might have been But I'm pretty sure it's somebody from SIS that told me, hey, the cameras stopped working. Or here, there is a problem. 50 MR. -- some of these -. I'm just, again, because I assumed you were going to remember this stuff, I'm going to cover these questions to make sure that I don't miss anything. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. And then, we will have to, maybe, refresh with some of them. So, did IIII, or tell you to fix the cameras on 2019? On August 8th -- : 8th. -- or 9th, 2019. : Yes. The 8th or 9th. 51 1 MR. And can you just recall 2 that conversation, of what they told you, and 3 what happened and where it was? 4 MR. : It's pretty simple. Like, 5 hey, , the camera is not working, this 6 and that, (Indiscernible *00:30:03). Like, I 7 just go and do 8 MR. : And did they tell you, 9 fix it immediate) ? 10 MR. : No. 11 MR. : Did they tell you that 12 they were informing the captain? 13 MR. a No. 14 MR. : And you don't recall 15 being involved? 16 MR. : Pfft. This is two years 17 (Indiscernible *00:30:16) get involved, as far 18 as I know. 19 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Well -. 20 MR. : I mean, after the fact, 21 everybody is involved, but -. 22 MR. : So the information we 23 have is and were 24 attemptiniiiiiiiiiew video on August 8th -- 25 MR. : Oh, okay. 2019. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 52 MR. MR. W. Okay. They were looking : 2019. at video -- MR. MR. MR. at video MR. MR. And -- -- for some reason. -- and they were looking they called you. Okay. • And had you come up. And had you determine what was going on. MR. MR. said, on August 8th, she said, make sure that you get this thin fixed. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : She, then, she said she didn't work on August 9th, and the schedule for August 9th reflects that. MR. : Okay. So, if that happened, I'm not saying this happened, but if it that did happen, I probably noticed that the drive went back and probably was trying to rebuild the drive. But I'm not sure if that's exactly -. Honestly, I don't remember the day before what happened. EFTA00064206 53 54 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. And that's what I'm trying to, ou know -- MR. Mm-hmm. MR. -- refresh your recollection. So, on August 8th, 2019, she said it happened some time before 2:00 p.m., that's whiiiiiiiiioke to you about this. MR. : So, I would have went in there. MR. : And she said -. MR. : And if I was upstairs, I would haviiiiiiiiiiht in the room. MR. : And she - yeah - she said that -- MR. : But I don't remember. MR. : -- she was under the understanding that, on August 8th, you were fixing it. MR. MR. : She said, she didn't work on August 9th, and she hadn't planned on working on Au ust 10th -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. • -- but she got called in. MR. : Mm-hmm. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 on? 22 23 24 25 MR. On August 10th -- MR. August 10th. MR. -- because of what -- MR. Yeah. Epstein. MR. -- happened with Epstein. MR. Yes. MR. She said, when she saw you on August 10th, she had learned that the camera system wasn't fixed -- MR. MR. recording. MR. MR. didn't this get her was, I came MR. MR. MR. MR. : Yeah. -- and they weren't : Yeah. And she said, , why fixed? And your response to in today to do that. : Yeah. Does that all help you -- Yes. -- recollect what's going MR. : Yes. MR. Does that sound accurate? MR. : It sounds accurate, but -. So, if something happened on the 8th, I don't 55 1 think I would wait until the 9th to fix it. 2 So, if it did happen on the 8th, I don't really 3 remember the 8th. I remember the 9th more 4 specifically. But it did happen on the 8th. I 5 would have went to the room, and just replaced 6 the drives, because that's the only thing I 7 would do. 8 MR. : All right. I'm going to 9 skip ahead and do, I'm going to read you - and 10 I'll continue on with this - I'm going to -- 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 MR. : -- read you the FBI 13 interview re ort from when you -- 14 MR. Mm-hmm. 15 MR. -- do you remember, you 16 said that ou were interviewed by the FBI? 17 MR. : Yes. I was. 18 MR. : All right. So, this says 19 you were interviewed by the FBI on March 12th, 20 2020. Is that correct? 21 MR. M i Yes. 22 MR. : All right. So, I'm going 23 to just read, I'll just read the whole thing, 24 so that we're not missin anithin . It says, 25 "On March 12, 2020, ," it says 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 56 your date of birth and telephone number, "was interviewed b Assistant United States Attorney, (Phonetic Sp. *00:32:42), Task Force Officer Detective (Phonetic Sp. *00:32:45), and Special Agent , at the United States Attorney's Office, Southern District of New York, 1 St. Andrew Plaza, New York, New York. During the interview, provided the following details." Does that all sound correct so far? MR. Yes. MR. And we're just going to stop after each aragraph, to have you -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. -- to check in with you. started working for the Bureau of Prisons in 2003 and worked in both New York and Indiana. had some colle e education, , and had ten years' experience in electronics." Correct? MR. M i l Yes. MR. : "In 2016, in charge of all the cameras at the was put EFTA00064207 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 57 Metropolitan Correctional Center (MCC). advised that the camera at MCC were out of date. The recorders frequently went bad, and the cameras were all analog, and not maintained properly." MR. MR. : Yes. • "The camera system was over 20 years old. Sometimes, the screen would be active, indicating that the camera was working. However, the video would not be recording." MR. : Yes. MR. advised that only one hard drive of the camera system was working, at the time of the incident, on August 10th, 2019. When a DVR went bad, none of the cameras recorded. There was a system failure of DVR-2 on July 29th, 2019, and the motherboard failed on DVR-2 on August 8th, 2019. The hard drive failure occurred on August 10th, 2019." Is that something that you provided to them? MR. : Yeah. I probably did. Yes. MR. So, can you just explain 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 to me what we're talking about here, because it says -? MR. : That was -. MR. It says, specifically, there was a s stem failure -- MR. Yes. S li : MR. : -- of DVR-2, on July 29th MR. 29th. MR. -- 2019. MR. : That was a month before. Well, yeah. MR. That's that week and a half. MR. (Indiscernible *00:34:34). MR. That's the July 29th, 2019 -- MR. Yes. MR. -- that we were talking about. So, what would have happened with the system failure? MR. : That's when I had to replace the motherboard on the DVR-2. MR. And what does that mean? MR. : DVR-2 was really old, and 59 1 SigNet didn't have the arts to replace it, so 2 I had to call with , I contacted another 3 BOP facility, and then, I took the computer 4 apart, and he just pretty much replaced the 5 motherboard, and got the DVR-2 to start 6 working. 7 MR. MI On the 29th? 8 MR. : If that's what it says, 9 yes. 10 MR. : Well, it just says -. It 11 doesn't say when you got it to stop working. 12 It just says there was a system failure of DVR- 13 2 on July 29th, 2019. 14 MR. : I believe they probably 15 spoke to Signet then. I'm not too sure with 16 the dates because everything is -. I've been 17 super busy. The dates, I'm not really good 18 with. 19 MR. : Okay. But on July 29th, 20 2019, with the system failure, would have that 21 stopped the recordings? 22 MR. : Yes. A system failure 23 would haviiiiiiiiiithe recordings. 24 MR. : Okay. And is it your 25 understanding that, after July 29th, the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recordings were working? MR. MR. MR. Yes. All right. : Because he would have 60 logged into Nice Vision, and he would have seen things MR. : But I thought you said that -- MR. a And that's, well -- MR. : -- you'll only see if it was working, if it was live feed. I thought you said see recording. MR. : No. If you log into the Nice Vision, with the live feed, you would think everything is still recording because everything looks green. It's when you try to play back the video and, like, oh, wow, there's nothing being recorded. That's when you would know there is a problem. MR. MR. MR. MR. Yeah. MR. Okay. So -- So, if somebody has -- -- the way you check -- -- to pull the video. -- like, the way you EFTA00064208 61 62 1 checked was to try to rewind video? 2 MR. : Yeah. That's the only way 3 you could check it, is try to pull video from 4 the days orior 5 MR. All right. So, you are 6 aware, though, on July 29th, 2019, it stopped 7 recording, but your understanding was that you 8 got it toliiiiiiiiin? 9 MR. : Yes. Everything started 10 working a ain. 11 MR. : All right. And do you 12 know if you checked on it for say, let's say 13 the 30th of Jul or -? 14 MR. : I was in the middle of a 15 project, so I can't say I was just focused on 16 that, because there was a lot going on. 17 MR. : So, you only recall that 18 you would have checked on the 29th? 19 MR. : Yeah. 20 MR. : Of July. 21 MR. : Yeah. I don't think I 22 would have had reason to check, unless somebody 23 told me it wasn't working. 24 MR. : Okay. And it says, "And 25 the motherboard failed on DVR-2, on August 8th, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2019." What does that mean? MR. : So, the motherboard, that's the one I had to get replaced on August 8th, 2019. MR. : Right. So, this says August 8th. And you've been saying that you first learned on August 9th. So, where does this come into play? How do we know that the motherboard failed on DVR-2 on August 8th, 2019? MR. : August 8th. That's the motherboard I wrote, I must have replaced. Because I remember replacing a motherboard. MR. : And what does a motherboard do? What is that? MR. Everythin MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. running in circles -- MR. '1R. : When ago did this happen? happened on the Epstein, that was -- Epstein was the 10t . -- 10th. : And just to help -- So, that's -- -- so, just so we're not 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 63 the SigNet service call, as well. MR. M i Yeah. MR. : So, this is the SigNet service re uest number 24975. MR. : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MR. : It says, assigned to IIII MR. MR. MR. : Mm-hmm. (Indiscernible *00:37:33 ii MR. IIIIIIII : -- and Date created, Au ust 8th, 2019. MR. : Okay. MR. : And then, if we go down and we look at the, well, we'll read the comment section. MR. MR. : Mm-hmm. : Okay. So, there is a comment by on August 8th, 2019, at 3:38 p.m. It says, "Hi, IIII. Unable to locate anything official. The basic steps are as follows. Set the raid level to none and save. It will restart it with all drives being J. Replace any faulty drives. Two, set the raid level to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -- yeah, that -. . -- let me just read you 64 five, and save. It will restart and being, and initialization." And obviously, these words seem to be wTon . I'm sure -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : -- it's supposed to say, it will restart and begin initialization. MR. I n Mm-hmm. MR. : It talks about the password. And it talks about different directions to ao forward -- MR. MR. -- with. And then, there is a comment by on Au ust 14, 2019, at 8:02 p.m. This says, " called us on Thursday, August 8th, stating that he had two bad drives on his raid unit." MR. Mi Mm-hmm. MR. : "Of the Nice Vision Pro unit, NVR. We advised him to get replacement drives." MR. MR. Once they are replaced, they should start to -- MR. : Initialize. MR. -- initialize -- : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. EFTA00064209 65 1 MR. l a Yes. 1 MR. : -- to become available 2 2 3 for the raid array. did not have 3 4 drives readil y available." 4 5 MR. : Mm-hmm. 5 6 MR. : "He checked with his 6 7 local CSM " again -- 7 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. 8 9 MR. _zz_you said was -- 9 10 MR. 'I'll. 10 11 MR. : -- okay. "To see if they 11 12 had any spare replacement drives. Once he 12 13 located replacement drives on Friday, August 13 14 9th, he did not have access to the DVR room to 14 15 replace them. He called SigNet for phone 15 16 support, on Saturday, August 10th -- 16 17 MR. : Mm-hmm. 17 18 MR. -- when he gained access 18 19 to the DVR room. 19 20 MR. : Mm-hmm. 20 21 MR. : "He attempted to replace 21 22 the drives, and they started to rebuild. 22 23 During the rebuild process of the drives, the 23 24 drives were required to be taken out of the 24 25 raid on DVR-2." 1 25 67 1 MR. All right. And it was 2 the 8th that someone told you that the 3 recorders -- 4 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:40:04), 5 and I probably went to go look at the room. 6 Yes. And then, I probably went back the next 7 day, on the 9th, because the Thursday, when he 8 told me to put the drives in, I probably went 9 to put the drives in, and replace them. And 10 then, Friday, is when I'm stopped to see if the 11 drives finished that rebuilding. 12 MR. : I'm sorry. Can you 13 repeat What happened? 14 MR. : Okay. Okay. Now, it's 15 making more sense. 16 MR. So, on the 8tliwas it - 17 can you recall - was it that 18 told -? 19 MR. : Somebody told me what was 20 going on, on the 8th. 21 MR. : At the time, was there 22 only SIS people workin there, 23 , and SIS Tech 24 MR. 25 MR. -- is it -? 66 MR. : Yeah. MR. : "Once the drives are removed without proper shutdown of the recorder, the video database becomes corrupted. Typically, any time the raid on a raid five configuration loses two drives -- MR. I n Mm-hmm. MR. : -- the raid needs to be rebuilt, and all data is wiped from the raid." MR. : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MR. : Do you want to just review that ourself? MR. : Uh-huh. MR. : So that I'm not just reading it to you, and tell me if that sounds accurate if,. MR. : Yes. That sounds a little bit betters_lill2aiihat happened. MR. IIIIIIIIII: So, is this now refreshing your recollection that, actually, on August 8th, is when you found out? MR. : Yes. Okay. It was the 8th, MR. W. The 8th. Yes. MR. It was the 8th? : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. they were the onl MR. MR. MR. MR. Yes. Were they -? I think No -- Two working. -- at the time. Yes. So, would it have been one of the two of them? MR. : Two of them. Yes. MR. Okay. And they told you that the MR. MR. MR. MR. 68 Recorders went bad. -- was -. Yes. Okay. So -. MR. : And then, and that's probably when I called SigNet, okay, two drives, two bad drives. So, I probably got the drives. I started to rebuild it. And then, the next da that's when I checked. MR. : But it sounds like, from this, you didn't have the drives on the 8th. Is that correct? EFTA00064210 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 69 MR. : I probably - because there was spare drives on the room - so, I probably started to rebuild on the 8th. I'm not too sure. Hog, MR. : All right. Well, this is really important for us to get you to try to remember. MR. MR. I know. : Because this is, like, a big piece of this, the fact that the cameras were down when E stein -- MR. : Yeah, I know, but I -- MR. -- and -. MR. -- I was doing, like, a million things, and I've been doing a million things after, like -- MR. MR. MR. : Sure. -- this happened. : So, on the 8th, you actually believe that, from reading this -- MR. a i This. Yes. MR. : -- you believe that you actually did tr to rebuild on the 8th -- MR. : Yes. MR. : -- and not on the 10th? 70 1 MR. : Not on the 10th. Yes. 2 MR. : All right. Because that 3 way that it reads, I thought was that, you 4 didn't have them on the 8th. On the 9th, you 5 didn't have access, "And then, on the 10th, 6 when he gained access to the DVR room, he 7 attempted to replace the drives, and they 8 started to rebuild." That's how this reads. 9 MR. : That sounds about -. That 10 sounds ri ht. Yeah. 11 MR. : So, now you're thinking, 12 you actually did it on the 10th, and not the 13 8th? 14 MR. : Yeah, I know I replaced 15 the drives on the 10th, because that's when 16 they told me, like, not to do it, and it got 17 crazy. 18 MR. : All right. So, now 19 you're thinking it actually you didn't do 20 anything on the 8th. 21 MR. : Hmm. I probably know 22 about those drives being bad, and I went to go 23 get drives. 25 MR. M I! Yes. 24 MR. So -- : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. went to look for MR. MR. them on the 8th? MR. : Hmm. I came back the next day, and that's when I replaced them. Well, the next day was MR. the 9th -- MR. MR. 71 -- so, on the 8th, you drives? : Yes. Do you think you located : The 9th. . -- and it says that you didn't have access to -- MR. : Just to replace -- MR. • -- replace. MR. -- yeah, I can't go in the room. MR. So then, it sounds like, so, you didn't do anything on the 8th -- MR. : Or the 9th. MR. • -- or the 9th. MR. Mm-hmm. MR. You obtained the hardware, but then, on the 10th -- MR. : That's when I got access to the room. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 72 MR. -- and previously, what you told us that, is that you found out on the 9th, and then on the 10th, you didn't have access to the room, so on the 10th, you did overtime that MR. overtime anyway. regardless. MR. there on the 10th MR. people there. MR. Okay. So, you were going to be working on the 10th, overtime, regardless of this camera issue? MR. : Yeah. Regardless. I was -. Because this had nothing to do with my overtime. I was doing a project. MR. : All right. Because we talked in pretty detail, in July, when and I spoke with you about, like, how someone approved your overtime to work on the 10th, specificaiiiiiiiiirk on this camera issue. MR. : No. This was not for that. ou could do it then. : I was going to be doing So, I was going to be there : You were going to be regardless? : Yeah, because we had TDY EFTA00064211 73 74 1 MR. And you -- 2 MR. No. And that's -- 3 MR. -- and then, you went on 4 where, like, on in detail about -- 5 MR. No. That's -- 6 MR. -- like, who would have 7 approved it -- 8 MR. No. What -- 9 MR. -- would it have been 10 Would it have been one of the AWs? 11 The captain? 12 MR. : I don't know who approved 13 it, but we were already working on the camera 14 project. So that's what I was doing. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. I was already -- 17 MR. So, you weren't -- 18 MR. -- this had nothing to do 19 with anythin iiiiiiiiii 20 MR. : -- so, you weren't there 21 on -- 22 MR. : So, specifically, to just 23 deal with this. And if I said, okay, I'll deal 24 with it tomorrow, I probably, said, okay, I 25 don't have time today, I could deal with it 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 first thiligjiLI12_morning tomorrow. 2 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Okay. So, if you didn't 3 deal with it on the 9th, because you couldn't 4 gain access to -- 5 MR. 6 MR. MR. MR. : Yes. -- the SIS room? Yeah. How were you going to get access to the SIS room -- MR. MR. *00:43:42). MR. MR. Somebody was there -- -- (Indiscernible -- on Saturday. • Now, someone is always there from SIS on Saturday? MR. : Not always, but there was going to be somebody there on Saturday -- MR. . Okay. MR. -- because I think I asked III if he was oin g to be there Saturday MR. : All right. And III -- MR. And there was -. MR. . -- wasn't actually an SIS (Indiscernible *00:43:55)? MR. : Yes. He was an SIS. He 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 75 was just in the video room. MR. He was a telephone monitor -- MR. MR. MR. MR. work for SIS. MR. ■ been a reason why I said I'm coming back tomorrow because somebody would have been in the office tomorrow for me to get access. MR. : So, you believe either III, or one of the SIS -. So, III could gain access without an SIS employee letting him in? MR. : He has the key for the room. MR. MR. MR. believe : Monitor. -- guy. Yes. • But he didn't actually Correct? ■: No. But there would have He did? Yes. • All right. So, you , then, was going to be there on Saturday, and he was going to grant you access? MR. : Somebody was going to be there to iiiiiiiiiiccess. MR. : And previously, when you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 76 said that III was -. You said III was there on the 9th, or he was there on the 8th? MR. : That's his main post. So, he is alwa s like, there. MR. : So, he is always in the SIS room? MR. : So, for the week, yeah. That's what he's -. He's just in the room. MR. Okay. ■. As in, MR. questions. MR. MR. MR. if, can see if SIS MR. MR. *00:45:01). MR. : She is listed for August 10th. At 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. on OST number one. MR. Oh. Is that OST number : Yes. I have a couple of Oh, yeah. But what I -- (Indiscernible *00:44:50). -- was going to ask is u check the roster for the 10th, and was scheduled, or IIII, or : Okay. : Yeah. Hold on a minute. (Indiscernible EFTA00064212 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 77 one, is that the -? MR. : No. That's OSP-1. That's outside perimeter. But he still had, would have the key. So, he probably would have given me access to the room. MR. : And do you believe that you actuaiiiiiiiii with him about any of this? MR. : Yeah. We spoke about it, like -- MR. • Prior to the 10th? MR. -- yeah. MR. : When would have you spoken with him? MR. : When I went in the room, like, because he was leaving for the day, he was, like, well, you can't have access. I'll be back tomorrow. And then, I would have came MR. tell you that? MR. MR. MR. MR. check, was 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. Well, and what day did he On the 8th or the 9th? That was that Friday. So, the 9th? Yeah. All right. Can you just in on that Friday? 1 MR. • 2 see his name 3 However, ou 4 MR. 5 the way that 6 MR. 7 MR. 8 MR. 9 monitor. 78 : Yeah. Let me -. I don't on the first couple of pages. want to go through the rest. : All right. So, again, this reads is -. I think you said, Excuse me? is listed for phone 10 MR. So, III is there? 11 MR. : Yeah. It looks like he 12 was assigned monitor. 13 MR. : All right. And phone 14 monitor would have been in the SIS room? 15 MR. : Yes. 16 MR. All right. And -- 17 MR. In the SIS room. 18 MR. -- and how do they -- 19 MR. (Indiscernible *00:47:43). 20 MR. -- is that M? 21 MR. It's . 22 MR. Okay. Great. All right. 23 So, he would have been the phone monitor. So, 24 your understanding, then, is on the 8th, that's 25 when it was noticed that this thing wasn't -- Right. • -- recording. Yes. And that was by an SIS 79 official? MR.I : Mm-hmm. MR. : Somebody, either a MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. • -- or a IIII. MR. Yeah. MR. : On the 9th, you went in to go fix MR. : Yes. MR. But ou went towards the end of yoili_ltifts when III was leaving? MR. IIIIIIIII: I started doing something before then, but it was going to be too late for the drives to rebuild, so even if I replaced them, it wasn't going to be, like, right away. The drives were going to start working. MR. : Well, didn't you say that it took about ei ht hours for the drives to -? MR. : A whole day. 24 hours. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. So -- MR. M i. Not eight hours. Not : eight hours. A whole 24 hours. -- so, why wouldn't you MR. have rebuilt them -- MR. MR. 9th, so that MR. MR. MR. didn't have drives, drives. MR. Well, this says that, on the 8th, you didn't have the drives. On the 9th -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. • -- he had -- MR. Yeah. MR. -- he did not access to the DVR -- MR. MR. MR. MR. 80 Mm-hmm. -- during the day, on the ou could check back in on the -- Probably -- -- 10th? -- well, like I said, I or I was trying to get the Mm-hmm. DVR room. Mm-hmm. -- to replace them. EFTA00064213 81 1 MR. : To replace the drives. 2 Yeah. So, it was probably later, in the end of 3 the day, I had all the drives, and I went to go 4 replace them. And that's when I couldn't go in 5 the room. 6 MR. : Okay. And then, you 7 talked to at that time, and said you would 8 be back on Saturday to do it? 9 MR. : Yeah. Yeah. 10 MR. All right. Now, in 11 talking to , she explained 12 that this was an extremely urgent matter, and 13 that she spoke to - she wrote a memo on it. 14 And she talked to the captain, and they said, 15 make sure ou et this done today. And that -- 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. : -- on the 10th, when she 18 saw you -- 19 MR. : That sounds like -- 20 MR. • -- she said -- 21 MR. -- a lot of B.S. I'm 22 sorry to sa like -- 23 MR. • -- okay. 24 MR. -- that doesn't -. 25 Because this thing happened so many times, as 82 1 I've been there. Like, why would this day be 2 different from the months leading up to it, 3 where this kept happening? Like, why would -. 4 I know Epstein happened. Everybody is trying 5 to say -- 6 MR. : Yeah. 7 MR. : -- okay, this is what 8 happened, but before that, nobody even cared. 9 To be honest with ou. 10 MR. : So -- 11 MR. : I'm just going to be 12 honest. Nobody cared that the drives were bad, 13 or the recordings aren't working. Oh, those 14 recorders weren't working. Okay. Fix it, 15 And then, we will go from there. But 16 nobody, before Epstein, this was, like, a known 17 thing. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : Like, the drives would go 20 bad. There would be no video. It was no big 21 deal to arallEtirLthat building. 22 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Because you said, in 23 every other institution, within the BOP -- 24 MR. : Yeah. 25 MR. . -- this would have been 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 83 very (Indiscernible *00:49:57). MR. : This is a big deal. This is, like, you can't leave. You've got to stay here. MR. : Well, that's what she says, she said she actually wrote a memo, provided it to the captain, both said, yes, this has of to et done on the 8th. MR. : Well, if that was the case, they would have gave, me access and I would have stayed in the building. I would never get to go home. And that's what I've done before in my other institution. Any time anything fails, or if there is a big failure, you stay until it's fixed. MR. Right. And that's where MR. doing now. MR. reconcile. MR. MR. : And that's what they are -- what we're trying to : Yeah. Because the memo was written on the 8th, provided to the captain. They said, "Make sure it's fixed." She's 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 84 saying that the next time she saw you, on the 10th, and finds out that the video wasn't recorded, she says to you, why didn't you fix this on the 8th? MR. : Yeah. Good luck. Yeah. And because it doesn't even take me a day to fix -. Those problems, it takes me a couple of days, because I have to rebuild drives. Even when I rebuild the drive, the next day it's not going to work. MR. : Right. MR. : It's going to take a couple of days. And after I rebuild the drives, you have no video from the days prior. I don't even know what video you have after the drives start working. You have to go look to see what iiiiiiiiiihave. MR. : Okay. So, again, I guess that's the question of, why didn't you start working on it immediately, on the 8th? : Because I have no idea. Well -- : Well, I was working on it, MR. MR. MR. but yeah. MR. -- it was -. EFTA00064214 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 85 MR. : But, like, it looks like, it was a pattern of, okay, , it's a priority, but it's not a priority. MR. : Okay. MR. : And for somebody to say they wrote a memo to the captain, like, where is there a memos before when this happened? MR. And then, we'll have to ask, I guess -- MR. MR. : Yeah. -- (Indiscernible *00:51:16iiiiiiiiirevious memos. MR. : Yeah. There's got to be previous memos. MR. Okay. MR. : Yeah. This is - yeah, that right there. MR. So, you don't think that that's accurate? MR. : No. I would not say that that's accurate. I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus, but to say, like, this, this day, like, it's bigger than any other time it happening, like, come on, this has been happening for months now. 86 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : It's been happening since 3 I got in that building. And I was at a 4 previous institution and like I said, if this 5 was a big deal, I wouldn't even go home. 6 you've got to stay for overtime. 7 You've got to call SigNet. I'm going to give 8 you the ke for the room. 9 MR. : Well, that's what the room. 9 MR. 10 said that they did. Or at least 11 is saying that she told you that this is 12 a big deal ou've got to do it. 13 MR. : Pfft. 14 MR. : Right now. And -- 15 MR. : Oh, yeah. Everybody is 16 trying to cover their tracks. No. This is not 17 the case. I could honestly say this is not the 18 case. 19 MR. 20 MR. : And it has never been 21 previous ractice before. I had a facility 22 manager, (Phonetic Sp. 23 *00:52:05), my previous facility manager, I'm, 24 like, hey, the first time this happened, I 25 remember it because it was so weird to me that • All right. 87 1 they told me to go home. I was, like, well, at 2 my other jail, if something wasn't working, I 3 couldn't leave. Like, if he radios go down, I 4 have to stay there until the radios are fixed. 5 Like, two months ago, the radios failed, and - 6 oh, three months ago - they failed in Brooklyn. 7 They called me from MCC New York, to go to 8 Brooklyn to hel them with their radio system. 9 MR. : Right. 10 MR. : Their console. So, if 11 that was the case, they would have called MCC 12 to come, if I couldn't stay to fix the problem. 13 So, that's never been previous practice over 14 there. No. 15 MR. Okay. 16 MR. That's, like, that's news 17 to me. 18 MR. Now, are you aware that 19 the captain was notified? 20 MR. : He probably - he should 21 have been notified. It's the captain's 22 equipment every time the camera is not 23 recording. 24 MR. All right. So, but you 25 do recall, you did speak on the 8th with the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. 88 , with an -- Yes. -- one of the two -- (Indiscernible *00:53:00). SIS. : I talked to somebody on the 8th. Yes. MR. And you just can't specifically even kind of put yourself back into that? MR. : No. MR. Doliiiiiemember, though, on the 10th, saying, why didn't you fix this? MR. : I was so busy with everything else. Like, I don't even remember that. MR. So, you don't remember that. MR. : No. MR. Do believe it wasn't spoke with on the 8th? MR. : No. I don't believe so. MR. You don't believe you I don't. ou have any reason to that you EFTA00064215 89 1 spoke with her, or you don't -. 2 MR. : No. I believe I spoke to 3 somebody from SIS. Because that's when who -. 4 If they were trying to pull video, and they 5 couldn't pull the video, that's when they would 6 tell me, he 7 MR. • Right. 8 MR. -- there is a problem. 9 But other than that 10 MR. : So -- 11 MR. -- there is no reason for 12 me to talk to an body from SIS. 13 MR. : So, it's a likely that it 14 was 15 MR. Yes. 16 MR. : And is it likely that, on 17 the 10th, asked you why 18 wasn't this fixed? 19 MR. : If she was there, yeah. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. Yeah. 22 MR. . And is it likely that you 23 told her, on the 10th, that's why I'm here 24 today, to fix it? 25 MR. Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 90 MR. Okay. Is there anything that I read to you, from this, on the, you know, on the 8th is when you determined; on the 9th you couldn't gain access; and on the 10th is when you ained access to the DVR room -- MR. Mm-hmm. MR. -- and you attempted to replace the drives. Does that all sound accurate? MR. : That sounds accurate. Yes. MR. All right. So, it is that, on the 8th, you found out; the 9th, you couldn't iiiiiiiiss -- MR. : (Indiscernible *00:54:11). Yeah. MR. -- and the 10th -. MR. M! It was all (Indiscernible : *00:54:15iiiiiiiii, MR. : Okay. So, now going forward, though, we can at least have a -- MR. MR. MR. MR. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 91 MR. a -- yes. Happened. MR. : -- that happened. So now, these questions might make a little more sense. MR. MR. MR. something? MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. Okay. And -. : Hey, can I ask him Yeah. Before we go. : Please. Okay. : Please do. : So, there is something contradictory in between the 302 and the SigNet. On the 302, it states that there was a motherboard failed on DVR-2, on August 8th. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : It doesn't say that the hard drives failed. It says the hard drives failed on Au ust 10th. MR. . Yeah. Could you -. MR. : That's two different things. MR. : Mm-hmm. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. asked, what ha MR. call. I'm not everythiniiIIIIIIII MR. : But this is, so, this was the, this is the interview of you. MR. a Mm-hmm. Yes. MR. : So, the assumption is, that you are the one who provided them this information. Correct? MR. a Yes. I am. MR. : So, with you telling them that a system failure of DVR-2 occurred on July 29th, 2019 -? MR. : I don't think I would have given them exact dates because I don't remember when all that stuff happened, to tell you the truth. Me giving exact dates, that's, I can't give exact dates. MR. Okay. MR. : Yeah. (Indiscernible *00:54:18). • -- a story of -- For what happened -- -- for what it is -- 92 So, yeah. So -- So, as -- -- accordin -- Agent ened, and when did it happen? : That, you would have to too sure the dates of EFTA00064216 93 1 MR. And then, so you think 2 that they actually located these dates on 3 themselves? 4 MR. : Yeah. They probably would 5 have to to get the exact dates. 6 MR. : So, you don't think that 7 this is actually the information you provided 8 them duriiiiiiiiiiterview? 9 MR. : No. Because I wouldn't 10 have gave them -. There is no way I would have 11 had that, or remembered this. No. 12 MR. : Okay. And then, saying 13 that the motherboard failed on DVR-2, on August 14 8th, 2019. 15 MR. : That's something -. Yeah. 16 That's information they would have got from 17 SigNet. 18 MR. : So, you don't believe 19 that this, you actually - this paragraph right 20 here - that you told them? You think that they 21 got that information -- 22 MR. : Yeah. They probably -- 23 MR. -- outside of your 24 interview? 25 MR. -- collaborated it with 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 94 SigNet. Yes. Because me and - I don't even remember exact dates today. So, like, there's no way I could remember exact dates. MR. : All right. , did you want to follow up on that? MR. : No. I mean, yeah, it comes from -. So, you're saying that the statement in the 302 is inaccurate? MR. No. MR. No. MR. No. He's not saying that's inaccurate. MR. I'm saying it's accurate, but they •ol i,ipl f r ound out dates. MR. : He's saying that he thinks that they got this information based upon another source, not from him. MR. : Not from me. MR. : Okay. MR. : Because I can't give you exact dates. That's all. MR. : All right. So, there is - just while we're on this 302 - there is another part that says, "After the incident," and that's the Epstein incident. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 95 MR. a I know. MR. : ' was asked about the cameras." MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : Who asked you about the cameras? iiiiiiiiiecall? MR. : Pfft. The warden. Everybody. Anybody that could think about asking me uestions asked. MR. : All right. "There were two new hard drives to install." MR. a Yeah. MR. : "But installing the new hard drives would mean that all prior data -- : Yeah. MR. MR. MR. -- would be lost. : Lost. Yeah. You would lose all video. MR. lose all recording? MR. : All the old video. Yes. MR. : Oh, so, the recording of the old video? MR. : Yes. Yeah. MR. So, when you install Oh. Lose all video or 96 1 these new hard drives -- 2 MR. : The two new drives, and 3 everythin would be gone. 4 MR. -- everything is wiped. 5 MR. : So, whatever video they 6 were looking for, it would be gone. So, 7 whatever iiii iiiiii: Okay. "The trying to, it would be gone. 8 MR. 9 Warden wanted video, and so was told to 10 start workin on the system." 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : So, at this time, was it 13 prior to re lacin the new, the two new drives? 14 MR. : Well, this time, that's 15 when I probabl started replacing the drives. 16 MR. : But if -- 17 MR. Yeah. 18 MR. -- if you replaced them 19 and all recordin gets -- 20 MR. : Wiped. 21 MR. -- wiped. 22 MR. Yeah. 23 MR. • Then how would you be 24 able to obtain the video? 25 MR. : Yeah, there is no video EFTA00064217 97 98 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 obtained. MR. : So, that's what I'm just trying to make sense of what this states. So, "The Warden wanted video, so MR. : They wanted me to start -- MR. -- was told -." MR. -- they wanted me to start that day recording video. We will get the recorder to work, though -- : Oh. -- (Indiscernible MR. MR. *00:57:52). MR. video of the incident -- MR. Mi Incident. MR. : -- he wanted video to (Indiscernible *00:57:56). MR. : And then, he was trying to see if there was video from the incident, and I'm, like, there is no video. And that's when, the next day, I find out there was a video on the other recorder -- MR. : Okay. MR. -- that, yeah, that other camera. : Well, he didn't want 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : So, that helped explain it. When you were saying the warden wanted video, you're talking about from that point forward, the video -- MR. M i The video. Yeah. MR. : -- he wanted the recording to be working -- : Yeah. He -- -- not the video of the MR. MR. incident. MR. : -- well, they wanted a video of the incident, and the recorder to start working. I'm, like, there's no video, there's nothing I could do. I can't find any video. MR. : Okay. MR. That recorder is gone. MR. : I gotcha. MR. : So then, it was at that point, okay, we'll get the recorder working, and do whatever you got to do to get the recorder workin . MR. : Okay. So, it says, started removing the bad drives in order to rebuild the DVR." 99 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. : Is that correct? 3 MR. Yes. 4 MR. : So, are you the ones that 5 actually removed the two -- 6 MR. : The drives. 7 MR. -- drives? 8 MR. Yeah. 9 MR. : And you -- 10 MR. And I labeled everything. 11 Yeah. 12 MR. -- and you put the new, 13 two new drives in? 14 MR. : Yes. 15 MR. All right. 16 MR. : And then, the FBI came and 17 stopped me in the middle of ever thin 18 MR. : It says, " advised 19 that the FBI agent was the one who pulled out 20 the DVR." 21 MR. : Yeah. Because I told 22 them, if you pull out the drives, that you're 23 going to have problems, there's going to be 24 corruption, because like I, like I told you 25 before, you pull out two drives, like, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 100 everything is wiped. Even if there is a video from before. You just, you're, like, out of luck. Because it's going to -- MR. : Now, can you just explain that? What is it that they pulled? : Two of the drives. • They pulled the two MR. MR. drives? MR. was -. See, what happened was, I was going to start rebuilding the drives, so I labeled everything. It was, it was the best. So, they wanted me to -. Let me if I can (Indiscernible *00:59:23). So, ever stopped working. I go in the room, IIIIII, you've got to get the recorder working. Well, I got to pull the drives out to get the recorder working. So, the two drives that I pulled out. And so, the two old drives, and the two new drives, I labeled them, because I knew that it was going to be a big thing. So, I got to pay attention to what I'm doing. And then, in the midst of all that, that's when they took the drives, and said, hey, we need to stop doing everything. MR. So, who is it that : Yeah. Yeah. Because I EFTA00064218 101 1 actually pulled the bad drives out? You or the 2 FBI? 3 MR. : I pulled the bad drives 4 out to re lace them with good drives. Yes. 5 MR. : And you put the two new 6 drives in? 7 MR. : Drives in. Yes. 8 MR. : So, what is it that the 9 FBI pulled? 10 MR. 11 drives. 12 MR. : So, you were rebuilding 13 it. And when you rebuilt it, they came in and 14 they justiiiiiiiihem all out? 15 MR. : Yeah. They would pull 16 them all. 17 MR. : So, it was never able to 18 rebuild? 19 MR. : Yes. 20 MR. : All right. So, they 21 pulled all the drives. And so, when they said 22 the DVR. Is that different from -? 23 MR. : Yeah. The DVR because 24 they pulled everything from DVR-1, and that was 25 the one that wasn't working. And then, DVR-2, : They pulled all the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 102 the one that was working, the next day, I had to get all the - well, the same day - I could get all the important parts of the prison on DVR-1, that wasn't working, on DVR-2, which I probably should have done the day before, but - MR. speaking about. MR. drive. MR. : Oh, DVR-2 was the good drive? MR. : Yes. MR. : But DVR-1 wasn't. Okay. So, DVR. MR. : And what does this say? DVR. DVR-2 is the good drive. DVR-1 is the bad drive. MR. IIIIIIIII!: Okay. So, DVR-1 -- MR. That's not - no - that's not what you said before. You said DVR-1 was all good. DVR-2 went bad. MR. : Yes. MR. : Okay. So, DVR-2 was the bad drive. : So, it's DVR-2 that we're Correct? : Yes. That was the good 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 103 MR. a Yes. MR. : So, as far as DVR-2 being the bad drive, is the DVR, is that the 16 drives, or is there a separate box -- MR. : No. It's the 16 drives, and then, you have, like, the brain, some motherboard, you know, the other computer on the bottom, but -. MR. : So, when you say, when they say that the FBI agent was the one who pulled out the DVR, you're talking about all 16 MR. : All the, they probably pulled the -- MR. -- drives and motherboard. MR. : -- they probably pulled -. Yeah. They probably took all of the recordings. But they had it take -. When I'm talking about that the next day, because we already had the new set, when all this happened, SigNet came the next day, and we had the new system up and running. Everything was in boxes. So, he had to just come in and install it. 1 MR. 2 MR. 3 took both 4 MR. 5 came and 6 MR. 7 MR. 8 MR. 9 MR. 10 says that, " 11 that, by replacing both hard drives, the system 12 would be wi ed. 13 MR. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. : And that he had advised 15 personnel at MCC of that." 16 MR. Yes. 17 MR. : Now, when you say, 18 "Wiped," it means just everything -- 19 MR. : It means -- 20 MR. -- that was on it before? 21 MR. -- everything is gone. 22 Yes. There is no video. There's nothing. 23 MR. : And do you know how far 24 that wouliiiiiiiiine back to? 25 MR. : No. 104 Okay. So -- : So, the next day, the FBI DVR-1 and 2. So, on the 11th, the FBI ust took it all? They took it all. Yes. Everything? Everything. All right. Okay. So, it also advised that he knew EFTA00064219 105 1 MR. No? 2 MR. No. 3 MR. : So, was that the case, 4 could have we obtained video off of those -? 5 MR. : Other drives? Yes, before 6 I started rebuilding. Yes. But that's what I 7 was told to do. So, that's what I was 8 (Indiscernible *01:02:17). 9 MR. : So, just explain that. 10 What could have vie got off of it? And you're 11 talking about DVR-2 now, the bad drive. Right? 12 MR. a DVR-1 is the bad drive. 13 MR. : So, this is where I'm 14 getting confused. I thought we just said that 15 DVR-2 is the bad drive. I've got to get this 16 straight. , you just - I thought we 17 said, we did say that, but then you just chimed 18 in and said it was DVR-2 that was bad. Which 19 one was it? DVR-1 or 2 that was bad? 20 MR. : DVR-1 is bad. 21 MR. : In the initial part of the 22 interview, he stated that DVR-2 went bad, and 23 DVR-1 drives were all good. 24 MR. All right. Because yeah, 25 on the thing, it says -- 106 1 MR. : Yeah, because everything 2 was on DVR-2. 3 MR. -- "He attempted to 4 replace the drives, and he started to rebuild. 5 During the rebuild process of the drives, the 6 drives were required to be taken out of raid on 7 DVR-2." 8 MR. : Yeah. I would say on DVR- 9 2. I'm sorr confused. 10 MR. : All right. So, DVR-2 is 11 the bad drive -- 12 MR. : The bad drive. Yes. 13 MR. All right. So, on DVR-2, 14 the bad drive -- 15 MR. Yeah. 16 MR. -- could video have been 17 obtained? 18 MR. : Yes, before I started 19 doing anythin 20 MR. : So, prior to you pulling 21 them out, vie may have been able to obtain video 22 from the 9th? MR. 24 MR. 25 MR. 23 : Hmm. No. : August 9th? : No. Because it wasn't 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recording. MR. MR. drives. MR. 107 All right. Because you had two bad So, what video are you talking about when we said we could have obtained video? MR. : Oh, well, saying that stuff there is a possibility in the background, even if you have two bad drives that stuff could have been recording over it, but that's their technical jazz. Like, I don't know anything about that. MR. MR. MR. So, in saying that -- But saying that -. -- it sounds like, okay, it is possible that we could have gotten video MR. a Video. MR. : -- for August 9th and 10th. MR. : Yes. It is a possibility. Not a strpappil2ility, but yeah. MR. IIIIIIIIII: So, it is possible, but once the two drives -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. became -- MR. MR. MR. MR. those two drives, official told you able to go back - MR. MR. 108 Yes. -- were pulled -- : Pulled. Yes. That was a -- that possibility : Yeah. • -- impossible. It was gone. Yes. All right. Now, are are you -? When the SIS on the 8th that they weren't : To do. -- and review the video - MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. • -- if something was recording in the background, would you have been - you know, like you were talking about, there is a possibility - would you have been able to tell at that time? MR. : No. I wouldn't have been able to tell. That's something SigNet would have, or some expert, video expert, would have EFTA00064220 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. action to re MR. MR. 109 . All right. That's nothing above me. : Was your only course of lace those two bad drives? : Yes. • So, would, regardless, that video have been, at some point, deleted? MR. a Yes. MR. : And you were -. Who instructed you to actually pull out those bad drives? MR. : I would just have to - (Indiscernible *01:04:53) to SigNet, or -. Well, and I told SIS this before, like, if I pulled two drives, there is no video, especiall if it was bad. MR. : Did you talk to anybody on August 10th, prior to pulling them, that there was a possibility that video of the Epstein incident could have been retrieved? MR. : No. MR. : So, you didn't tell anybody that? MR. : I'm not saying I didn't 110 1 tell anybody that, but that was -. I think 2 that's something I found out later. Because 3 that's when SigNet was talking to me. But 4 that's not something I would have known before 5 Epstein. 6 MR. : All right. 7 MR. la Because that was something 8 we talked about, like, the days after that 9 happened. 10 MR. : Because this 302 says, 11 " advised that an Fg122ent was the one 12 who pulled out the DVR. also advised 13 that he knew that, by replacing both hard 14 drives, the system would be wiped, and that he 15 had advised ersonnel at MCC of that." 16 MR. : Mm-hmm. There would be no 17 video. 18 MR. : When did you do that? 19 MR. la Before I started doing 20 anything. If I'm going to change drives, 21 you're going to know, like, it's -. Because I 22 know this was going to be bigger than just me 23 fixing the recorders. Like, there is other 24 things that are going to happen, but I'm going 25 to tell you, hey, if I do this, this is what's 111 1 going to ha en. 2 MR. : But I thought you just 3 said that that's something you found out later. 4 MR. : Later. But no, as far as 5 there bein video on the background. 6 MR. Oh. 7 MR. Yeah. As far as -- 8 MR. So -. 9 MR. -- me pulling out the 10 drives, I already knew that before because 11 that's what happened the last time, when I 12 replaced two drives, that there was no old 13 video. It was ust the new video. 14 MR. : So, on the 10th, your 15 understanding, that there was no video from the 16 9th -- 17 MR. : Or the 10th. 18 MR. • -- or 10th. 19 MR. : Yes. That was my 20 understandin iiiiiiiiii 21 MR. : So, therefore, yeah, and 22 at that time, you didn't know that there was a 23 possibilit -- 24 MR. : Possibility -- 25 MR. : If things were recording 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. background. MR. MR. MR. the two dri became -- MR. MR. MR. 112 -- going in the -- in the background. Yes. And once the DVR, that ves were pulled, that possibility Became an impossibility. • -- an impossibility. Yes. MR. Okay. Before we move on from that, did anybody want to clarify any of that? MR. a drive -- MR. : Yeah. What -- : Go ahead. -- technically, when you pull : Mm-hmm. • -- like, what happens? It might be a technical question. MR. Yeah. : Like, how does everything wipe? Is that -? EFTA00064221 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 113 MR. : Oh, well, it's, like, looking for ones and zeros, and if nothing is lined up, from what the SigNet explained to me, if one drive being bad is not really a problem, because the other drives are going to -. It's the redundant. So, it's the backup, it's going to take over for that drive that's not working. Okay. MR. : But now, since this drive is not working, and this one that's working is taking, any drive is taking over for this drive, and that drive goes bad, that means we have two bad drives. That means nothing is going to be recording. : So, they work in conjunction - MR. MR. MR. ■ MR. *01:07:25). : Yeah. -- with the other one? : Yeah. But the death of -- : The redundant. - the death of one -- : (Indiscernible *01:07:27). -- is (Indiscernible Gotcha. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 114 MR. : And then, when they both die, .lo edone. : Gotcha. And there's no way to recover an : Well, at the time, they told me no, and then they said, well, there is a possibility that it could have been recording eah. MR. IIIIIIIII: -- in the background, after the fact. ME.kay. MR. : But that was something more technical than my understanding, because of the time, if something goes bad, just, you know, take the drives out, put it in. And then, this became a bigger thing. So now, we're, like, well, there was still kind of a possibility that more things would have been happening. From my understanding. That's what SigNet told me. Okay. MR. : All right. And then, for clarity purposes, when - again, on the 8th, you found out that this was an issue, and that you 115 1 had to re lace the drives -- 2 MR. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : -- when did you obtain 4 the new drives? 5 MR. : It had to be some time 6 during that day or the next day. I probably 7 was lookin for drives, because if I -- 8 MR. Because you said -- 9 MR. -- if I knew -- 10 MR. -- you got them, and you 11 got them from the CSM? 12 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. Okay. And you just don't 14 know if that, you got them from CSM on the 8th 15 or the 9th? 16 MR. : The 9th. Yeah. I know I 17 got some drives from him before because we've 18 gotten, I've gotten old drives from him before. 19 And I know we've ordered drives. I'm not too 20 sure if I ordered a whole bunch of drives to 21 just replace all 16, or whatever, how many are 22 in the raid. But we were, that was going to be 23 the next iiiiiiiiigust rebuild everything. 24 MR. : Now, if it was your 25 project, and you are the camera guy, why did he 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 116 have the drives and not you? MR. : Because he has all the hard drives in the building. Like, me having the hard drives is not part of my job description. But -- MR. : All right. So -- MR. la -- I could have them, but he's got more, like, readily available ones. And everything that I had was from the old stuff that wasn't working from before. MR. : Okay. MR. M! So, if I pulled something from that, something that wasn't working before, I don't know if it was bad. That's why it's on the shelf. Because nothing was labeled bad. It was just on the shelf. That's, it was a mess, that whole area was a mess. MR. equipment stored? MR. MR. MR. MR. near the -? MR. Okay. Where was his Oh, the CSM? Yes. His is in the server room. Is that within the SIS, : No. That's downstairs, in EFTA00064222 117 1 the first floor. 2 MR. Okay. So, the server 3 room is in the computer server room? 4 MR. : Yes. Yeah. 5 MR. • Nothing to do with the 6 cameras? 7 MR. : No. 8 MR. All right. So, you would 9 have had to have one to him -- 10 MR. : Gone up to him -- 11 MR. -- within the -? 12 MR. -- with the, yeah, at the 13 time, like, hey, , you got some drives? I 14 don't haviiiiiiiiiies. 15 MR. : Okay. So, what -? Can 16 you just explain what steps it is? You found 17 out on the 8th. What steps did you take in 18 order to resolve this issue? Do you know if 19 you -? Did you call SigNet on the 8th, or did 20 you call them on the 10th? Because the way 21 that this -. The way that this reads, just 22 look at these comments. It says this comment 23 was made on the 8th, at 3:38 p.m. -- 24 MR. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. . -- and where it says, "Hi 118 1 IIII. Unable to locate anything official -- 2 MR. Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : -- the basic steps are as 4 follows. Set the raid level -- 5 MR. M i Oh huh. 6 MR. : -- it none and save. It 7 will -." So, what is going on here? What are 8 these instructions? This is supposed to be 9 specific to this incident. 10 MR. : Mm-hmm. 11 MR. Do you follow what's 12 going on there? 13 MR. : Yeah. Oh, so, I called 14 them on Thursday. And I probably started to 15 rebuild on Friday. But I couldn't do the 16 rebuild 17 MR. : So, you called them on 18 Thursday?__412Ia_to obtain the instructions? 19 MR. IIIIIIIII: I already knew what I had 20 to do. I always just call them to make sure 21 I'm doing ever right. 22 MR. : All right. So, on 23 Thursday, ou called them. 24 MR. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : And are these 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 119 instructions that I'm looking at, though, on this comment from August 8th, 2019, at 3:38 p.m.? MR. : Yeah. It looks like that's right. When I - that's where I do the rebuild, probably. Those are probably the instructions to do the rebuild. MR. MR. . Yeah. For two drives. MR. : And do ou understand who it's - when it says, "Hi IIII. Unable to locate anything official." - do you know who it is that is talkin there? MR. : It could be or MR. : Hey. Can I -- MR. : That was MR. -- can I clarify that? Because I didn't -. We know that that comment right there is by (Phonetic Sp. *01:11:18). He's a Qognify support engineer. MR. : Okay. MR. : And that's the instructions that he provided to give you MR. Okay. 120 1 MR. a Okay. 2 MR. : All right. And do you 3 know when you would have received those 4 instructions? Would it have been on the 8th? 5 MR. a i Yes. 6 MR. : Okay. And you're saying, 7 the reason why you didn't do it on the 8th is 8 because -- 9 MR. 10 MR. 11 drives -- 12 MR. 13 MR. 14 MR. 15 MR. 16 the 9th, 17 MR. 18 MR. 19 MR. 20 MR. 21 the day -- 22 MR. 23 MR. 24 MR. 25 access to go in I didn't have the drives. -- you didn't have the : Uh-huh. -- to do it? Yeah. All right. So then, on The drives. -- the drives? Yes. • But you got them later in Late. -- is what you're saying? Yes. And I didn't have room. EFTA00064223 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. 121 And III told you that you MR. : Can't go in there. MR. -- couldn't be in there? MR. Yes. MR. And do you specifically recall being the one who said you can't come in here? MR. : Well, he's just, like, if I'm gone for the day, there was nobody else there. He was the only one with the key. MR. : So, again, if we speak to him, is he going to say, yeah, I told him he can't come in? MR. : Yeah. Yeah. He knows I can't come in. Because it's the evidence room, too. So,i(eat MR. : Yeah. We talked to SIS about that. She said there was not an evidence room in there. MR. : It's still an evidence room right now. If you go there. MR. • Mm-hmm. MR. That's where I -- MR. Well, maybe now, but what 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is it on the 9th? MR. evidence room. MR. MR. MR. files in MR. they get everythi n MR. MR. MR. MR. 122 -- it's always been the Because she said, yeah -- It's not going to be -- -- she said there were but there's no evidence. : Yeah. Every contraband from inmates, that's where they store In that area? In that area. Yes. Where the -? : Yes. And if you go there MR. Where (Indiscernible *01:12:28). MR. • -- right now, there's still, there's junk in there. It's not just a video room. That's the biggest problem that I had with this whole thing, was that at other institutions, when you have a video room, you just have a video room. There is nothing else in there. There's just the com techs. You go in, you do whatever you got to do, you come 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 123 out. There should not be anything else mixed with the room. MR. MR. is still MR. MR. room. MR. 9th, what time did MR. MR. MR. • Okay. : And up to this day, there evidence and garbage in that room. . Okay. : So, it is not a video Can you just look on the work until? Hold on. Did you say 7:00 to -- : On the 9th. Bear with me. Nine. So, this falls under either 7:00 to 3:00, or 8:00 to 4:00. MR. : Okay. MR. W. So, it was later than me staying for -. And you could just check my overtime, too, to see what time I stayed. So, if I did overtime that day. MR. : All right. But point being, is you didn't go in and fix them on that day? MR. No. MR. : All right. So, when you 124 1 say you didn't have access to the room, you are 2 saying you didn't have access to the room after 3 3:00 p.m.? 4 MR. Yes. 5 MR. And you -- 6 MR. Or whatever time. 7 MR. -- because usually -- 8 MR. Yeah. 9 MR. -- your shift was from 10 6:00 a.m. 11 MR. 6:00 -- 12 MR. -- 2:00 p.m. 13 MR. -- 2:00 -- 14 MR. Correct? 15 MR. : -- yeah, but I was doing a 16 project. So, I don't know what overtime. I 17 was probably doing overtime. So, I was working 18 maybe 12 bana_1§_hours. 19 MR. IIIIIIIIII: And this is just one of 20 those things we're going to have really 21 reconcile here, because -- 22 MR. Mi Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : -- of the, you know, this 24 is such alai" of this thing -- 25 MR. : Mm-hmm. EFTA00064224 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 125 MR. -- that we don't have a video. Why didn't you, from 6:00 to 2:00, fix this thinii MR. IIIIIII : Because I was doing other things. This wasn't -. This was a priority, but, and the fact, like I said, this was not, like, the main priority in the building. Oh, the recorders aren't working? Okay. Well, all right, it's not, like, oh, not, this is what you have to make. Now, after Epstein, like, oh, this is the main thing you have to focus on for the MR. : Okay. So, you didn't get to it until after you took care of a bunch of - MR. : Other stuff. MR. • -- other stuff. MR. Yes. MR. : And by the time you got to it, at the end of your shift, basically, it sounds like? MR. : Yes. MR. : That there wasn't enough time to do it? MR. : (Indiscernible *01:14:30). 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Yeah. Yeah. MR. access between -- MR. : 6:00. 126 But you could have gained MR. -- at least when he was working there, 7:00 a.m. to 3:00 p.m. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. Yes. But you just didn't? No. Okay. When you -- I have a few questions. yup. Co ahead. : I have a question. I know you might have actually answered this question, but just I, I probably didn't hear it. But you said that you spoke to MCC personnel about the date of (Indiscernible *01:14:57). Who specificaiiiiiiiliou speak to? MR. : It would be somebody in SIS. MR. : It would be somebody where? MR. : Or I'm pretty sure I told the warden, too, because this was a big deal. That on the, on that Saturday, when everything 127 1 happened, like, you know, if I pulled these, 2 there's goin to be no video at all. 3 MR. : And is this the 4 conversation directly with the captain? 5 MR. : No. This would have been 6 the warden, or SIS. I really didn't see the 7 captain that day. I don't remember seeing the 8 captain or talkin to the captain. 9 MR. : Was this a big -- 10 MR. : I would just -- 11 MR. -- sorry. 12 MR. -- that day -- 13 MR. -- this was a big 14 conversation. 15 MR. : -- yeah, when -- 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. : -- everybody was asking me 18 questions. It was mainly SIS and the warden I 19 was dealing with. I wasn't really dealing with 20 anybody else. 21 MR. : But you don't recall 22 exactly who you told, hey, I'm about to pull 23 the drives but will be wiped? 24 MR. I'm not too sure. But 25 either the SIS or the warden. I'm pretty sure 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of that. MR. 128 But again, he explained - MR. : And do you -. MR. • -- that it was his understanding that there was nothing on there, anyway. He didn't find out until later that there could have been some background. MR. : Okay. And then, the final question is, when the FBI agent that came in, do you remember who that FBI agent was that you spoke to? MR. : No. I don't remember his name. MR. : Okay. MR. : Okay. MR. : And you told him specifically that, hey, listen, I pulled two drives -- MR. MR. Two drives. Yeah. -- and it's in the process of being rebuilt? MR. : Yes. MR. : And you advised him that, if they pulled the drives, at that point. EFTA00064225 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 129 MR. : That they were going to be - yes. And I was on the phone with SigNet when this was going on. So, I could tell them exactly wiiiiiiiiiiing on. MR. : Well, let me clarify that, then, because you said that you pulled the two drives, and that would have wiped the system, but you said the FBI came in and just took ever thin MR. : Yeah, they took -- MR. : So -- MR. -- took everything. Yes. MR. -- so, they didn't pull the two drives. MR. : Drives. MR. : They pulled it all? MR. All. Yes. MR. : You said the -. They took all -- MR. MR. MR. MR. Yes. DVR-2 on the 10th -- Well, all the -- -- and they came back on the 11th, took the rest -- MR. : The rest of it. 130 1 MR. -- of it. 2 MR. Yes. 3 MR. : Is that correct? 4 MR. Yes. 5 MR. : So, does that help 6 clarify that 7 MR. : Yeah. Now, the last part 8 to this, I emailed you guys a snippet. Based 9 on the FBI's analysis, it looks like, they 10 indicated that there was a catastrophic disc 11 failures in their raid. And no reportings 12 would have been available after 7/29. 13 MR. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. : You mentioned earlier in 15 the interview that there was a motherboard 16 failure. 17 MR. : Yes. That was another 18 time. 19 MR. : But that happened around 20 July. That's what you initially mentioned. 21 MR. : I have -. If that's what 22 I said, then yes. But -. 23 MR. : So, and you said the only 24 way you could have corrected that situation 25 would have been that, you went in, and you 131 1 verified that by reviewing, going back and 2 reviewing old footage, to see that the cameras 3 were workin 4 MR. : Yes. 5 MR. : And are you sure that you 6 did that? Because according to the FBI, based 7 on their analysis, it looks like there was a 8 catastrophic disc failures, and there is 9 nowhere, recordings in there since 7/29 anyway. 10 MR. : I'm going to read you 11 what this sa s. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : It says, "On," it looks 14 like it would have been in September 18th, 15 2019, "A meeting was conducted with DVR vendor, 16 technical support representative, 17 , of SigNet Technologies. 18 provided an overview of the operation of the 19 system. A review of the DVR-2 controller logs 20 b and Senior Advisor, 21 "indicated that there had been 22 catastrophic disc failures in the array, and no, 23 recordings would have been available after 24 7/29/2019." 25 MR. : So, on the -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MI MR. *01:18:31 MR. MR. MR. Scientist, It says, -- (Indiscernible Go ahead. and Com uter 132 , "were provided access to the beginning sectors of the 16 drives, to see if the structure would indicate clues of a possible rebuild. None were apparent." So, what it is saying is that, and you could read the specific language, this would be, like, but what it is saying is that - MR. a Yeah. MR. : -- on the 29th, nothing - MR. MR. MR. MR. : Had been recorded. • -- had recorded. Yes. Prior to that, it sounded like you were, like, there is no possible that that could have happened. I would have known. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. So -- EFTA00064226 133 1 MR. Yeah. 2 MR. -- now, when you're 3 seeing them, and did they go in and they look 4 at this, does that seem like they would be 5 right, record after 7/29? 6 MR. : Yes. They're the experts. 7 So, they would know that nothing recorded. 8 MR. : All right. So, from 7/29 9 to 2019, nothing recorded, but this is the 10 first time ou are hearing of it? 11 MR. : Yes. That is the first 12 time I'm iiiiiiiiiiout that. 13 MR. : And during the FBI 14 interview, that's not something they discussed 15 with you? 16 MR. : No. Nobody told me that 17 was on the 29th. That that's the first time. 18 That's the first time I've heard that. 19 MR. : Okay. Sorry, . Do 20 you want iiiiiiiiiad? 21 MR. : Yeah. You mentioned that, 22 earlier in the interview, I might have - based 23 on my notes here - that you did a motherboard 24 rebuilt, and there was (Indiscernible 25 *01:19:44) could have happened around July 134 1 29th. And if this happened around July 29th, 2 are you sure that you went in and you verified 3 that the cameras were actually operating? It 4 was actuaiiiiiiiiiding? 5 MR. : Yes. I would have to 6 verify evieriiiiiiwas recording. 7 MR. : Now, if it was recording, 8 how was it that, based on their analysis of 9 this stuff, that there is no recordings in the 10 system after 7 20 2019? 11 MR. : The way I was taught to 12 look at the system, was to look at the Nice 13 Vision, and if I saw the red lights, like, the 14 system is recording. But then, I found out 15 later, the red lights on the system recording, 16 the way I was looking at it, it doesn't mean 17 that there was actual video recording. That's 18 something that told me later. 19 MR. : All right. But then, that 20 contradicts what you stated earlier. Earlier, 21 you stated that you actually went back in, and 22 you reviewed -- 23 MR. 24 MR. 25 MR. 135 1 video. Yes. 2 MR. : But now, it's different. 3 Now, you're stating that you went back in, and 4 you just looked to see if there was, like, a 5 dot -- 6 MR. : No, no. 7 MR. : -- to see if it was 8 recording. 9 MR. : I'm saying, I did both. I 10 would have looked to see if there was video, 11 and then I would have looked to see that I got 12 the red lights, that everything was recording. 13 The initial thing to do is to look to see a red 14 lights, that those are working. And then, the 15 next thing was to do was to pull back to see if 16 there was video. Now, SigNet told me later, 17 after all of this happened, even on the new 18 recorder that we have, the red lights that 19 show, it don't mean that anything is recording. 20 The system is not recording. You would have to 21 go pull video from, like, a week before, or two 22 weeks before, to see if there was a failure. 23 But you would not know, like, looking at it, 24 that theriiiiiiiiiroblem. 25 MR. : Okay. But you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Yeah. -- older footage. I would have to look for 136 (Indiscernible *01:21:18) comment by the FBI report -- MR. : Yes. MR. : -- there was no recording for you to o back and pull back -- MR. : Back. Yes. MR. -- (Indiscernible *01:21:21). MR. : Because it happened 29th. So, there must have been video that I pulled back from maybe before the 29th. When I was looking at it. MR. : So, what you're saying is that, you reviewed the, you fixed the motherboard, but when you checked to see the video was recording, you didn't check to see if video was recording from the time you checked the -- MR. a No. MR. : -- fixed the motherboard MR. M i No. MR. : -- to the time that you checked it, you checked previous to the time you fixed -- EFTA00064227 137 138 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. wouldn't MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. known that. I was just under the assumption that everything, because I saw the video from before. MR. MR. MR. have Yes. . -- the motherboard. Yes. : So, therefore, you known -- : Known that. -- that it wasn't -- Yeah. -- recording -- It wasn't recording. -- at that point. : Yeah. I wouldn't have : So, you saw -- That it was working. -- the video from before, but you would have seen that anyway -- MR. M i Mm-hmm. MR. : -- what you needed to do, actually, was check -- MR. : Check. MR. -- from the point that you fixed it -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. recording. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. To -. -- to the time -- That I checked. -- that you checked. Yeah. : Needed to be that Yes. : And you didn't do that? There was no video. So. : But are we certain -- : There was no. MR. . -- that July 29th, 2019 would have been the day that you fixed the motherboard? That's what this information says, but it says the motherboard failed on that day, at least, but we don't know that specifically, that that's the day that you tried to fix it or do we? MR. : No. MR. : Because the only other service request I have for 2019 is this one on February 28th, 2019. Would have they put in a service request if you were fixing the motherboard? 139 1 MR. : I would have -. I had the 2 emails before, maybe with , with the 3 motherboard. 4 MR. You do? 5 MR. Yeah. 6 MR. Could that -- 7 MR. Because I have the -- 8 MR. -- can that be the third 9 thing we ask ou for 10 MR. . -- because I had -- 11 MR. • -- if you could get us 12 those emails? 13 MR. : we have to get it from 14 another jail, because they didn't have it. And 15 he was the one that walked me through because I 16 had to -. He walked me through and I'm, like, 17 one of their engineers had to walk me through 18 how to pull that thing out. The motherboard. 19 MR. : All right. Can you give 20 me all your emails from and 21 ? and 22 MR. Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : That will be the third 24 thing ask. Is that okay? 25 MR. : Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 140 MR. Can you tell me, this service request number, 22855, it says, date created Februar 28th, 2019. It was a , and again. By looking at this, can you tell me what it was -? This is the only other one we could we could we've received with that -- MR. (Indiscernible *01:23:38). MR. : -- from that calendar year. Can you tell me what that would have had to do with? MR. : Hmm. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Rebuilt the raid. So, there was a -. It doesn'..r.hat drive or anything. Right? MR. : I don't know. I'm asking you. Because if it's not as detailed as this other one, it's kind of looks like more instruction type things. Yeah, yeah. Hmm. Because you said that the bad in the past -- Yes. • -- and you knew that they MR. MR. drives had MR. MR. would do MR. : Again. EFTA00064228 141 142 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. Is this what you're talking about? Is this February 20 -- MR. M i Yes. MR. : 28th, would that have been when the drives went bad last time? MR. : The last time. Yes. And it probabl went bad a time before that, also. MR. : But on this date, is that when you said that you had previously ordered the new drives -- MR. : Yeah. MR. -- based upn -- MR. : No. This would have been MR. -- (Indiscernible *01:24:23). MR. : -- it would have been a little bit later on, I ordered the drives. It would have been before all of this happened, that I ordered -. MR. : But point being, is you told us that the reason why you ordered them is because that it had gone bad in the past -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. . -- and they told you it 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would go bad -- MR. MR. MR. MR. Bad again. -- again in the future. Yes. Is this the last event that, when they went bad? And the reason why they would have told you that information. MR. : If that's when I called them. That probably would have been the last event. MR. Okay. MR. Yeah. MR. So, earlier that year. MR. Yeah. MR. Okay. So, approximately six months before. Okay. And that's why you would have ordered the new drives, though, and had them on hand? MR. Yes. MR. Okay. lust before we -. Can you just initial and date these before we continue moving on? I just -. Wait. We have -. As you know, we have everyone initial and date thesiiiiiiiii MR. : Mm-hmm. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. that we're talkin MR. MR. MR. 143 So we know what it is about, for the future. : Mm-hmm. : I mean, the date is -- : Mm-hmm. MR. • -- again, September 29th, 2021. And I'm making sure, making sure we have those. Let me see what else. All right. So, when you realized that you could not resolve the recording issue on August 8th, 2019, did you notif an one that you needed more time? MR. : No. MR. : No. And why didn't you? So, if the SIS told you, hey, we need this fixed, wh didn't you notify him that it -- MR. : past -- MR. • -- could (Indiscernible *01:26:14 MR. -- practice, so just go home, . It's not that important. You will come back tomorrow, and deal with it tomorrow. MR. That was past practice. But not -- MR. : Yes. 144 1 MR. -- that didn't actually 2 occur on Au ust 8th. That was just your -- 3 MR. Mm-hmm. 4 MR. -- your experience had 5 taught yoiliiiiiiiu could fix it the next day? 6 MR. : The next day. Just come 7 in the 8 MR. : Okay. But no one 9 actually told ou to come in the next day? 10 MR. : Hmm-mm. No. 11 MR. : Okay. Was it your 12 understanding about how important it was that 13 the camera issue was resolved before you went 14 home? 15 MR. : Pfft. At that 16 institution? N 17 MR. No? 18 MR. : It was never made clear to 19 me, like, this was important. Because this 20 happened, like I said, numerous times before. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : So, when SIS 24 says that it was her understanding that 25 she told you that it was not only important, EFTA00064229 1 but it had to be 2 MR. 3 MR. 4 *01:26:56). 145 fixed on the 8th, you -- : Yeah, because -- -- (Indiscernible 5 MR. : -- if this happened before 6 and I was fixing stuff, it wasn't like I fixed 7 it that day, and it works that day. It takes a 8 couple of days. It's not going to -. And me 9 magically (Indiscernible *01:27:04) my fingers. 10 Like, I go in the room and I just fix it, and 11 it starts_1112filing. That's not the case. 12 MR. IIIIIIIIII: All right. Would have 13 you, then, told her, though, I will get on it 14 immediate) -- 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. : -- but in your mind, you 17 knew it would take a few days, but she didn't 18 know that? Would that be a possible scenario 19 to that? 20 MR. : That's a possibility. 21 They might not know how long it would take me 22 to fix stuff. 23 MR. Did you tell them how 24 long it would take? 25 MR. : They just would see me 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 146 back there working. They wouldn't really know how intense or what I was doing. MR. All right. So, she would have said sure -- MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. : Mm-hmm. -- you fix this -- Fix this. -- and you would have - And I -- -- started -- -- fixing it -- -- working on it -- : -- yeah, but it wouldn't have been fixed that day. No. MR. Gotcha. And what instructions did you receive from , IIII, or regarding the cameras, the camera issue being resolved ASAP? MR. : I can't recall, but I don't really ever believe anybody tells me anything. (Indiscernible *01:27:53) resolved ASAP. With the recordings. I've never -. MR. : Hmm. 01,:iwhat have is, it says, you know, " we 147 1 spoke with the Captain and wrote a memo 2 regarding cameras not working. 3 told her the issue must be resolved ASAP. She 4 relayed that to , and agreed to 5 work overtime to resolve that." Does that -? 6 MR. M i l The same day? 7 MR. : Well, she said that she 8 thought it was going to be resolved the same 9 day, but she said that you agreed to work 10 overtime. So, it sounds like there was some 11 miscommunication -- 12 MR. : Miscommunication. Yeah. 13 It was a miscommunication. They already knew I 14 was working on the project. I was going to be 15 there. So. 16 MR. So, were you already -. 17 And you said ou were already working overtime. 18 MR. : Yes. 19 MR. : On other things. 20 MR. On things. Yes. 21 MR. • And you had TDY people -- 22 MR. People with me. 23 MR. • -- with you? 24 MR. Yes. 25 MR. So, does it sound to you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. way I said that? MR. fixed that same da MR. MR. 148 that she did tell you that it needed to be resolved ASAP. You did say, I'll work overtime to fix it. But you just weren't meaning that you were going to fix it that same day? : Hmm. No. That -- Is it -- -- yeah. I won't. • -- is that correct, the : It wouldn't have been . So -- That's what I mean. . -- yeah. (Indiscernible *01:29:05). It wouldn't have -. There is no way it would have been fixed that same day. MR. : So, she would have understood you're staying that same day, overtime, to fix it. MR. : But I, how would I stay if I don't have access to the room? That's my question. MR. : Well, she said that she spoke witiiiiiiiiithe room. MR. : In the room. Yeah. But after she leaves, after they leave, I don't EFTA00064230 149 1 have access to the room. So, how could I stay 2 in the room when I don't have access to it? 3 MR. : Right. And then, the 4 following day, when you did come back, and you 5 did have access, you actually just didn't go 6 until the ver end -- 7 MR. : End of the day. 8 MR. -- of the day. 9 MR. Yes. 10 MR. : And then, you no longer 11 had access. 12 MR. : Access. Yes. 13 MR. : And then, you said you 14 were going to go back on Saturday, in the 15 morning -- 16 MR. : Morning. I had, because I 17 had the drives. I got the drives from the 18 . Because I remember carrying the drives 19 to the room. 20 MR. : All right. And did you 21 agree to work overtime on August 8th, 2019, to 22 resolve the issue before you went home on 23 August 8tbs_a2122_ 24 MR. IIIIIIIII: No. No. Somebody would 25 have had to -. My supervisor would have had to 150 1 tell me, whoever was in charge, would hey, 2 like, , this is, you need to stay and, 3 you know, I couldn't just, like, I'm going to 4 stay. Like, no. 5 MR. Okay. 6 MR. la. Somebody's got to say, : 7 well, you have to stay, or we have to, you 8 know, talk about what's going on with me 9 staying. 10 MR. : Well she told, well, she 11 said that she was with II•, and her, and 12 they said ou stay to work overtime. 13 MR. : Pfft. That's the -. 14 She's not m su ervisor. So, that -- 15 MR. : Right. 16 MR. : -- doesn't work. It's 17 whoever is in charge of main facilities, and II 18 is my, like, supervisor, but there is 19 still somebod -- 20 MR. : So, who would have -- 21 MR. -- before her. 22 MR. -- been your supervisor? 23 MR. : It would have been the 24 general foreman of facility managers, whoever 25 is assigned, and they would have had to say, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hey, MR. MR. I don't work for MR. 151 ou have to stay. . All right. So -- : Like, I work for IIII, but -- but so -- MR. Mm-hmm. MR. : was out, and this something we discussed in our last interview. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : He wasn't there. MR. Yeah, there. MR. : And here is an out of office assistant that we have from you. You sent an email on Friday, August 9th, 2019, at 6:51 a.m. MR. a Mm-hmm. MR. : To . It says, "I will be out " and his automatic response -- MR. In Mm-hmm. MR. : -- was, "I will be out of the office on Monday, August 5th through Friday, Au ust 9th." MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : "I will have limited 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 152 ', and email access. Acting for me is Ms. , on Monda 8/5, and Tuesday 8/6." MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. "She will be reached at," and then, -- MR. : The number. MR. -- the number. MR. Mm-hmm. MR. • "And/or via radio track four. Wednesday through Friday, Mr. IIII will be Acting, and he will be reached at" MR. : Track four. MR. . -- the phone number. MR. Yeah. MR. : Or track four radio. So, would have you, so, the last time we spoke, you were certain that you requested overtime on that Saturda -- MR. : Yeah. MR. : -- and that your boss approved it. MR. M i Approved it. Yeah. MR. : Is that still your recollection? Because now it sounds like you EFTA00064231 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 153 had, like, a blanket over, a blanket -- MR. : We were in the middle of a project. So, it was probably just a blanket overtime. MR. been somebod MR. MR. yeah, that MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. of it, there MR. • So, there wouldn't have that you specifically requested? : No. All right. Because, as something we talked about -- (Indiscernible *01:31:36). -- for a long time -- : Yeah. • -- last time. Yeah. So, when you're thinking is not someone that you went to? : If he wasn't actually there, they were just acting, it was probably just a blanket overtime. MR. : Yeah, and we spoke to all three of them, and they said -- MR. M i Yeah. MR. : -- he never talked to us. We didn't even know anything about the camera issue. They all - all three of them said you 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 never talked idea anythin MR. MR. MR. MR. August 10th -- MR. MR. 154 to them about overtime. And no about the camera issue. : Yeah. Does that sound right? Well -- They knew about it after Yes. -- but they said they didn't knot. about it on the 8th or the 9th. MR. : Well, because they're not really in charge. So, that's, like, you can't tell them, because they're not -. I would have to tell or whoever is in charge of it. MR. But he was out. So, who MR. M i Yes. MR. : -- would have you spoken with? MR. : Whoever was in charge, but there, obviously, there is nobody in charge. That doesn't even make sense. MR. : Well, the acting, and during that time, says, you know -- MR. : It was 155 1 MR. • -- right. 2 MR. Said I didn't talk to him. 3 MR. : So, you didn't actually 4 speak with anybody about these camera issues, 5 prior to going home on the 8th? You just were 6 working on it? 7 MR. : I was working on it. 8 Yeah. 9 MR. : Okay. So, you didn't 10 notify anybody, though, hey, these cameras are 11 out, and it's not resolved? 12 MR. : They would have known 13 that, before I left, like, they still - I'm 14 still working on it. It was not, like, I'm 15 going to do fix it right away. 16 MR. : Okay. Now this actually 17 is, this email from you to IIIIII, your boss -- 18 MR. : Mm-hmm. 19 MR. -- it looks like these 20 are, like, your priority for things that you 21 were workin on at the time. Is that correct? 22 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : Why aren't the cameras 24 listed on there if that was on August 9th? 25 MR. : I have no idea. Mm-hmm. 156 1 MR. So, if you found out on 2 the 8th, which we have clarified that you did, 3 this is what ou're telling 4 MR. : Is going on -- 5 MR. -- is going on in the 6 institution -- 7 MR. -- in the institution. 8 MR. -- and what you need to 9 work on. 10 MR. On. Well, the 11 -- MR. : Wouldn't you have put 12 that -- 13 MR. -- that -- 14 MR. -- on there? 15 MR. : -- yeah. I would have put 16 that on there. But the camera thing was, like, 17 a constant thing. It wasn't, like, it wasn't 18 anything new. Like, they were having problems 19 with the cameras. 20 MR. : But it wasn't new, but it 21 wasn't new that the recordings weren't -- 22 MR. : Working. 23 MR. -- weren't recording. 24 MR. Yeah. 25 MR. So, should have that been EFTA00064232 157 1 on there? 2 MR. : It should have been on 3 there. Yes. It should have been on there. 4 MR. : So, being that it wasn't 5 on there, does that make you re-think, huh, 6 maybe I didn't even work on it on the 9th, or 7 try to work on it on the 9th? 8 MR. : I did work on it, if 9 that's what I said before. 10 MR. • Okay. 11 MR. But yeah. 12 MR. : Because they were writing 13 that, it sounds, like, based upon a 14 conversation with you on the 9th, they don't 15 know that you don't have access to do them on 16 the 9th. That's what they're writing, based 17 upon what ou told them. 18 MR. : Mm-hmm. 19 MR. Like, oh, yeah, I'm doing 20 it today because on the 9th, I couldn't gain 21 access -- 22 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : -- to the room. 24 MR. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : So, looking at this, and 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 158 what you were working, it looks like you sent them an email of what you were working on that day. And now that you're seeing what you were working on that day, and the fact that the cameras weren't listed on there, were you actually workin on it on the 9th? MR. : Yes. MR. And you are positive you went on the 9th and tried to gain access -- MR. : Because I had -- MR. . -- to that room? MR. -- and I had to get the drives from I did get the drives from MR. Okay. But you are positive you actually tried to access that room, and told you -? MR. : After I leave, that's it, you can't sta iiiiiiiiii MR. : All right. And that's your positive about, on the 9th, even though it's not listed on your to-do list, on the 8th MR. : Yeah, because that was probably something in -. This is probably all 159 1 the stuff that I fixed during that week, or 2 stuff I was lookin at. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : Just, but the reason why 6 the camera issue isn't on there is why? 7 MR. : It's a recurring thing. 8 Like, it's not something -. Like -- 9 MR. Okay. 10 MR. M I. -- after I fixed it, : 11 that's where I would give them the stuff I 12 worked on. It's not if I'm working on, this is 13 the stuff, like, I've been working on for 14 (Indiscernible *01:34:52). This is the stuff 15 that it's pending, or has to get done. Because 16 those are work orders. 17 MR. : So, from your 18 understanding, the camera issue wouldn't be 19 listed on this? 20 MR. 21 here. No. 22 MR. And you wouldn't have 23 notified that the cameras were down, and 24 not recoriiiiiiiii 25 MR. : Mmm, no. That would have : It wouldn't be listed on 160 1 been up to whoever was in charge. Like, I'm 2 not -. I'm List the guy that fixes stuff. 3 MR. : Oh, I thought you said 4 you tell -. This is your supervisor -- 5 MR. : Direct supervisor. 6 MR. -- direct supervisor. 7 MR. Yeah. 8 MR. I thought you said you 9 would alwa s tell your direct -- 10 MR. : Supervisor. 11 MR. -- supervisor. 12 MR. Yeah. 13 MR. But you didn't? 14 MR. No. 15 MR. So, this is just the 16 things we need to reconcile. 17 MR. M i Reconcile. Okay. 18 MR. : Is this something that 19 you should have told him? 20 MR. : If he wasn't in charge, 21 then I didn't tell him. No. 22 MR. Well, you didn't tell 23 . We know that. But he is still your 24 - you said that he is not my real boss. 25 MR. : Yeah. I can't tell -- EFTA00064233 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 161 MR. But MR. W. -- and I can't tell him : about cameras anyway. So, if it was IIII, and MI and IIIIII, that's what probably the only people that would know about the camera situation. MR. MR. MR. • So, from the 8th? From the 8th. Yes. • And -. Okay. So, from looking at this, though, you don't see anything wrong with not telling him that, when you're talking all" to-do list? MR. : Hmm. He's not in the institution. That's, like, yeah. MR. : Okay. So, the camera, the camera issue should not have been listed on here? MR. Hmm. MR. And when we go back -- MR. This is -- MR. -- to , or talk to the warden MR. -- this is -- MR. thing? • -- will they say the same 1 MR. 2 I've closed out 3 MR. 4 outs? 5 MR. 6 that I've 7 MR. 8 MR. 9 MR. 10 not much -- 11 MR. 12 MR. 13 than your 14 MR. 15 MR. 16 that you've com 17 MR. 18 MR. 19 you're workin 20 MR. 21 MR. 22 of that? 23 MR. 24 MR. 25 you initial and done. 162 : -- this is everything that over the -- Oh, these are your close : -- yeah, this is stuff Yes. • All right. So -- For the week. . -- and that's why there's (Indiscernible *01:36:10). -- there's nothing, other No. . So, this is the things eted? Completed. Yes. These aren't things that Working on. No. • Okay. And you are sure : Yes. Perfect. All right. Can date that? 163 1 MR. Mm-hmm. 2 MR. In retrospect, should 3 have you notified that the camera issues 4 weren't working? The cameras weren't 5 recording. 6 MR. : The thing about that, if 7 you're not in the building, and there is an AW, 8 and an SIS told me the cameras are not working, 9 like, why should I call you at home to tell you 10 the cameras aren't working? 11 MR. . Yeah, yeah. 12 MR. It's not -. You're not in 13 the buildin 14 MR. • Okay. 15 MR. So. 16 MR. : So, is it your 17 understanding that, after III left, there was 18 no way foiliiiiiilaccess that room? 19 MR. : I would have to break 20 glass, and write a memo, and all this other 21 stuff. So, why I have to stay in the room? 22 And it's the evidence room. So, I can't really 23 just willy-nilly go in there by myself where I 24 shouldn'tliiiiiiiiinow? 25 MR. : Okay. And how serious it 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 164 is if you have to break the glass, to obtain those keys? MR. : I 'ust have to write a memo and tell the why I would have to stay behind. But I was coming back the next day. So, and I was probably working overtime all week. And it was just time for me to go. . Okay. : I've been doing some long MR. MR. hours. MR. Okay. So, because you had worked the hours, you made it, you made that decision based upon your own experience that I'm going to work it on the next day, I'm not going to fix it today? MR. : Mm-hmm. Yeah. MR. So, you -- MR. : And the past practice of just deal with it tomorrow. But I've been told by my other supervisors, hey, just deal with it tomorrow. MR. Okay. But you weren't told, in this situation -- MR. : No. MR. . -- you made that EFTA00064234 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 165 independent decision on your own, though. Correct? MR. : Yes. From what I've been experienced from before. Yes. MR. : Okay. But you could have broken the glass, wrote a memo, and stayed to fix it? MR. a Yes. MR. : Okay. And you did not ask the captain, and any AWs, or the warden if you could come back the following day to fix it? MR. : I was already coming back for overtime. So. MR. : Right. Point being is to notify them, hey, these cameras, the recordings are still down? MR. : The recordings were down months at a time. I'm sorry. Like -- MR. : Whoa, whoa, whoa. Tell us more about that. MR. MR. MR. MR. -- you -. : So, there were -- I'm sorry. -- there were -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 166 MR. -- I'm sorry. MR. -- no, no, no. We need to know this stuff. So -- MR. MR. I'm sorry. -- this is -- MR. : Like, this is not, like, everybody -. It looks like I'm the fault guy, or, like, something isn't working, like, you keep asking me the same question. The thing about these cameras, these cameras weren't working for, like, weeks at a time. Like, this hasn't been the first time where these recordings weren't working, and nobody checked them. MR. to know. MR. MR. : And we didn't -. So, this is the first we're hearing that there was weeks at a time that the -- MR. MR. working. MR. time. : Well, that's what we need Yes. : Yes. Of course -- -- recordings weren't -- there was weeks at a 167 1 MR. Well then -- 2 MR. This happened before. 3 MR. • -- well then, tell us. 4 So, here. Open, open discussion. Tell us 5 exactly what was going on with these 6 recordings and they weren't working. 7 MR. IIIIIIIII: Well, when I fist got to 8 the institution, that's why I started a 9 project. I would look for video, and they 10 would tell me there is a problem, and I'm, 11 like, oh, you can't keep running the 12 institution like this. If there is no video, 13 you have to fix the system. You have to get 14 the updates. I've called SigNet about the 15 problem. And I informed everybody, hey, this 16 is a problem. You can't have a jail where you 17 can't find video whenever you need video. Or 18 the recorder is always failing. 19 I was in (Indiscernible *01:39:08) for a 20 your and a jail. I don't remember, maybe a 21 couple times where something - as far as video, 22 pulling back video, you would always find a 23 video. There was never a time where you 24 couldn't find a video. Maybe some cameras 25 weren't working, but as far as pulling back 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 168 video for a jail, there is no time where you can't find video. And my experience, when I got there, was, like, oh, it's not a big deal, it's not a big deal. And I'm, like, well, this is a jail, with funding and whatever else problems they had. Nobody considered anything here a priority or an emergency. So, after Epstein, that's when it was, like, oh, well, now you've got to stay, now you have to do everything. And I've been screaming at the hilltop when I got there. Like, hey, you have a problem, you've got to fix it. That's why I did the money for a project, hey, you need to get new recorders in, you've got to put the -. You've got to upgrades. Like, you haven't done anything at all. Like, you have to spend money. Like, this stuff is old. MR. : But tell us specifically about times where there was weeks at a time that the recorders -- MR. MR. Well, not weeks • -- were down. MR. -- at a time, but I'm just saying, like, if this happened at this time, EFTA00064235 169 1 right, and I replaced the drives the other 2 time, weren't they looking for video, and 3 another time they couldn't find video, and I 4 fixed it, and then, they were, like, oh, well, 5 everything is fine now. And then, a month 6 later, or two months later, we have the same 7 problem again. Oh, can't find video. They 8 were just concerned about video they could find 9 for that specific time. They were never 10 concerned about finding a video for the whole 11 time. 12 MR. : Okay. So, it - from what 13 we have, from our records - it suggests that, 14 in Februar was the last time -- 15 MR. : No. 16 MR. : -- (Indiscernible 17 *01:40:26). 18 MR. : This happened before. 19 That's wh I 20 MR. This was the last time? 21 MR. -- yes. 22 MR. : Okay. It may -- 23 MR. : The last time. 24 MR. • -- have happened before 25 February -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 170 MR. : Yeah. Yeah. But there was more times where it happened before February. Since I touched down and got to MCC, New York, this was a problem. So, it was a constant roblem -- : Yes. • -- where this was MR. • reoccurrin MR. MR. happening? MR. : Yes. MR. : And what have you telling them all along was that we need been to fix MR. : The problem. MR. -- recurring -- MR. : Yes. MR. • -- problem. MR. : Yes. So, that's why I had a brand-new hard drive downstairs. And it wasn't a riorit . MR. : Right. MR. : Because you've got other things toliiiiiiiiiut. MR. : But when the -. And correct me if I'm wrong, though. I understand 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 171 what they're saying that, like, you're saying that it wasn't a priority for them to install a whole new system, but it did sound like it was a priorit , once the recordings went down -- MR. : Down. Yes. MR. : -- that they need to be fixed. MR. : Fixed. Yeah. They need to be fixed. Yes. MR. Right. So, that's where I want to make sure we're clarifying, when you make a statement such as, it would be weeks at a time that there is no recordings. MR. : I'm just not, weeks at a time, but there would be days where there is no video. MR. Okay. MR. Like, they always try to get video, there is no video. This isn't the first time -- MR. Right. MR. -- this happened. MR. And that was what happened, it looks like, back in February -- MR. : Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 172 MR. -- it would have been about six months before -- MR. : And this happened -- MR. *01:41:23). MR. happened a cou MR. MR. . -- (Indiscernible : -- before then, and it le times before then -- Right. -- because that's when I started -. Whenever I started working at that prison, I probably noticed it within the next, the first three to four months I was there. Like, hey, what's going on with the recorders? Why is there no video? MR. : Right. MR. : And then, especially when I had to do the time change, because we had to do a time change in October, on the year changes, and I'm, like, why is it taking a whole day and a half for them, for the recordings to start rebuild and change the time on the recordings. It shouldn't take a whole day to do that. MR. And -- MR. : Because you have to stop EFTA00064236 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 173 and start stuff, and it's, like, well, why is the system so old? Like, what are you guys doing? MR. And did you already have a new system to install at this point? MR. : No, I didn't. MR. It wasn't on there? MR. : No. I had to submit a project. I went with the engineering tech -- MR. No, no, no. Prior to August 10th, 2019. MR. MR. new system MR. MR. MR. location. MR. system -- MR. MR. installed MR. MR. Yes. Yeah. Did you already have a Yes. -- at that time? : At the time. At the So, you did have a new System. -- you just hadn't Installed it. -- it yet. 174 1 MR. a Yes. 2 MR. : And why didn't you 3 install ii a? 4 MR. IIIIIIIII: Because it wasn't a 5 priority. Like I said before. 6 MR. : Okay. But your priority, 7 or whose ic: y_ sit? 8 MR. IIIIIIIII: Whoever - Signet - or 9 whoever is on the list for them to install the 10 new, our recorders. 11 MR. Okay. So, you don't 12 MR. They have a list. 13 MR. -- install it? 14 MR. No. I do not install it. 15 I help the -- 16 MR. Signet would have -- 17 MR. -- technician who will 18 come and install it. Yes. 19 MR. : -- and when was SigNet 20 scheduled to install this? 21 MR. : I have no idea. 22 MR. : Whose job would it be to 23 call SigNet and to schedule them to install the 24 new recorders? 25 MR. : That's not my -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 175 MR. That's not you? MR. -- that's not me. MR. As the camera guy, you wouldn't iiiiiiiiihing to do with it? MR. : No. That's upper management and Si Net. MR. : So -. MR. : Or . Like, hey, when is this thing -? But that's not my call. It's here. Like, you know, they have to schedule it and work that out. MR. : So, if it's on the premises, and you have the new system at the MCC, how long was it actually at the MCC prior to this time? MR. : It was a few months. MR. So, the new system -- MR. Yes. MR. -- probably was ordered after the February timeframe. MR. IIIIIIIII: No. It was ordered way before then. MR. Mr So, maybe -- MR. : It was ordered because it was -. This happened in 2019. The new system 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 176 was here, and the money from 2018. MR. : So, you've had this new camera system on hand for almost a year, if not MR. : Not a year, but a few months. Yeah. We had -- MR. So, a few months. MR. -- it for a few months. Yeah. MR. And it obviously can't be SigNet's decision -- MR. Decision. MR. -- to put it in. MR. It's -- MR. Is it? MR. -- no, it's not SigNet's. The facility. Who is in charge of the facility? MR. So, who is the person that was in charge of getting that new camera system installed? MR. : Whoever was in charge. MR. : Who? MR. : That would be the facility manager. Whoever was -- EFTA00064237 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 177 MR. MI So, l='? MR. : -- well, he just got there. We were at limbo. There was nobody in charge. MR. : So, there was no one to actually schedule this thing to get -- MR. : Installed. Yeah. MR. : -- and -- MR. : Nobody to take charge and say, hey, I can't call Signet, hey, I need you to come -. I'm -. What am I? MR. : Who knew that the new camera system was there? MR. : I did. I think I did, and that was orni l about it. Because -- MR. IIIIIIIIII: Okay. Was that anyone's MR. : -- it was too much -. Like, at the time, we didn't have a general foreman or a facility manager. There was nobody that really -. We started a project. It was just, like, a whole big mess of confusion. MR. All right. MR. There was really nobody -- 178 1 MR. Because (Indiscernible 2 *01:44:12iiIIIIIII 3 MR. : -- to say, hey, this is, 4 you know -. 5 MR. : So, you always say that 6 the cameras are the captain's baby. Would it 7 have been the captain that should have taken 8 responsibility for that, to say, like, hey, get 9 these -- 10 MR. : These cameras -- 11 MR. . -- these new cameras -? 12 MR. -- you got the new 13 recorders, hey, get them in. Yeah. But -. 14 Yeah. 15 MR. Because you keep on 16 saying, hey, this has been an ongoing problem. 17 Well, it looks like the problem - the solution 18 was there. 19 MR. : Yes. But nobody -- 20 MR. 21 actually 22 MR. 23 *01:44:33 24 MR. -- implemented. 25 MR. : No. It was never • But there was never -- (Indiscernible 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 179 implemented. MR. So, I know you said, like, oh, it looks like you're saying, well, you know, I'm the fall guy. Well, I'm asking you, who is? Who is the guy that should have made sure that that was fixed? MR. : I'm just the maintainer of the system. MR. Right, right, right. MR. I'm not the installer of the system. MR. And I'm not saying that you are the u . MR. : Yeah. MR. : I'm asking you the question. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. I helped install -- : Who -? -- the system. : So -. : I maintained the system. I fixed the problem when you tell me, hey, there is a problem. I go check it out. I call Sii cl we work on the issue. MR. : And -. 1 MR. 2 do. 3 MR. And I'm asking questions. 4 I'm not makin accusations. 5 MR. : Accusations. 6 MR. Not once did I say you're 7 responsible -- 8 MR. You're responsible. 9 MR. -- what I'm asking is, 10 who is reiiiiiiiii? 11 MR. : It would be probably be 12 the facility manager, or the general foreman, 13 or -, 14 MR. And because there was no 15 one there -- 16 MR. : Yeah. 17 MR. -- who, then, would 18 become reiiiiiiiii? 19 MR. : Well, then it would be the 20 AW. Whoever is in charge. 21 MR. And who was the AW in 22 charge at that time? 23 MR. , probably,__ 24 MR. So, it would be IIII, not 25 ? 180 : That's it. That's all I EFTA00064238 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. yeah. MR. MR. IIII, and (Phonetic Sp. *01:45:34), because I remember, I had to talk to him about this whole camera thing. MR. MR. 181 Oh. Oh. She was -. Oh, was there, too. Yeah. : So, one of the two? : One of the two. Oh, well was. Before them, it was : And who is : He was another AW, before took over. This is, like, before all this got started, it was -. Back (Indiscernible *01:45:44) manager and when I was telling them, hey, you need to upgrade your camera system. MR. : Okay. All right. And there was nothing on -. Nothing scheduled to actually et the system installed? MR. IIIIIIIII: No. And from what I know, we weren't on the list to get anything installed. MR. : And the reason why you were able to install it, you said on the 11th? MR. : It's because of whatever happened with Epstein. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. is a new camera s MR. there. MR. MR. myself. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. You had this -- MR. *01:46:06) MR. there. MR. MR. able to immediately -- Immediately. -- install it. Install it no problem. : So then, the day after -- (Indiscernible *01:46:11). -- Epstein's found, there stem there? : There is a new camera 182 : So, Epstein happened. : Everything (Indiscernible : -- new system already Yes. : So, on the 11th, you were : Who installed it? It was and : So, he flew in? Yes. : And installed it -- : With me. 183 1 MR. • -- with you? 2 MR. : Yeah. Well, I put the 3 rack in, and helped him. Well, he pretty much 4 did everything. But get the rack and the UPS 5 in. 7 contacted to make sure he came ll right. And who MR. Mi ll 6 8 down? 9 MR. : I was on the phone with 10 SigNet after all this happened. I was on the 11 phone the whole time with SigNet. 12 MR. : So, who made the ultimate 13 decision to, hey, it's time now to get this new 14 system installed? 15 MR. : Probably when he 16 got a hold of what was going on. 17 MR. Okay. So, would 18 have -- 19 MR. Yeah. 20 MR. -- been able to make that 21 decision? 22 MR. : Make that decision. Or 23 maybe when I was -. Because I think I, when I 24 was on the phone with , that they were, 25 like, well, we got to get out there right away, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 MR. Okay. And then, did you 20 tell people that? 21 MR. Yes. 22 MR. And who did you tell 23 that? 24 MR. 25 workers, and I've talked to my facility manager 184 because whatever is going on. MR. : Now, was , was he, did he have knowledge that this camera system was old and needed to be replaced? MR. a Yes. MR. : So, should have he had the -. He should have made this a priority, to make sure that the new camera system was put in place, since he had been there for, I think, a few months? MR. : Well, we already started the project. I don't think anybody knew the gravity of the recorders at the time. Like, if I knew how important the recording was. Everybody else, they were just, like, oh, it's just, it's broken again. And I'm, like, well, you know, it's not just broken again, it shouldn't be broken at all. : I've talked to my co- EFTA00064239 185 1 about the problem. And I even talked to the 2 regional com tech, because we have a regional 3 guy in charge of the cameras, and that work 4 stuff, like, like, this stuff is unacceptable. 5 Like, when I came and, like, the way the 6 building was laid out, and some of the wiring 7 issues in the building, this was just not 8 acceptable. 9 MR. : Okay. But knew, 10 prior to August 10th, how important this was to 11 get this new camera system in? 12 MR. : It was. That's why we 13 started the ro ect. Yeah. 14 MR. : And when you say you 15 stared the project, what did you start on the 16 project? 17 MR. : Trying to figure out how 18 we were going to upgrade, like, because not 19 only did the recorder was bad, it was also the 20 housing units, there was only one camera in the 21 housing unit. So, if anything was to happen on 22 the housin unit ou would see no video. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. : It would just be a blanket 25 camera footage of the common area. There would 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 186 be no additional video. : And you said the new system was purchased with year-ends '18 -- MR. _: Mm-hmm. -- money? MR. : Yeah. : So then, how long was this system sitting around? You said a couple months, but that's more than a (Indiscernible *01:48:37iiIIIIIII MR. : A few. It's a few months. I'm not too sure when everything got ordered, or when it was sitting around. Because even if we ordered it, I think everything was on back order. That's why it didn't come right away, the recorder. MR. MR. date? MR. Oh, okay. : The recorder. Okay. : Yeah. But it was post that February : Before the -. I'm sorry. Can you re eat that, please? : Yeah. So, I mean, it was, it 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 187 was, if it was on back order, it probably arrived some time in, what, '19 versus '18? MR. arrived. MR. MR. MR. Please. MR. : Mr. , based on your understanding, how important is it that the cameras are recording on a day to day basis? MR. : It's very important. And it should be checked on a day to day basis. And the way, at my last institution, that I was aware that anything wasn't working, was I would actually get a report from SIS, this camera is bad, that camera is out. This camera is not working. Now, after Epstein happened, they wanted to task me with that job. I refused because I can't be the same person cooking the food, telling you that the cameras are bad, or the food is good. So then, it became up to somebody else to check the cameras. Daily. Now, they check it every day. There is a : I am not too sure when it : Okay. . So, because -- Can I ask a question? • -- yeah. Go ahead. 188 1 report that's sent up. But before Epstein, 2 there was never a daily report of the cameras 3 are recording, or we have an issue. There was 4 never anything set up at MCC, as far as that 5 goes. 6 MR. : So, you think before 7 Epstein had happened, no one had a day to day 8 responsibility to make sure the cameras were 9 working? 10 MR. : No. 11 MR. : Who would have been the 12 next - if no one had the day to day 13 responsibiiiiiiiiiho could have checked? 14 MR. : That would have been SIS's 15 responsibilit because my -- 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. : -- my previouiliiii, SIS 18 would be the one telling me, hey, , there 19 is a camera out, or there is other issues, 20 because I don't just work on cameras. I work 21 on all the communications in the building. So, 22 cameras are, yes, that is, like, one my main 23 things, but if there is other issues in the 24 building, like, I can't just focus on cameras. 25 And at the time, I was by myself. I was the EFTA00064240 189 1 only electronics technician in the building for 2 a while. 3 : What other types of things do 4 you do? I know you fix the (Indiscernible 5 *01:50:45). 6 MR. : Fire alarm. Cameras. 7 Radios. And I install the network. Like, if 8 you need a cat five (Phonetic Sp. *01:50:50) 9 cable, or an thing communication lines -- 10 : Mm-hmm. 11 MR. : -- in the building. The 12 fire alarm for the building. The doors. 13 MR. All right. I'm just 14 going to -- 15 : I'll get back on again. 16 MR. • -- oh, he dropped again? 17 Looks like he dropped. Yeah. 18 MR. Hey. Hey. Can you hear 19 me? 20 : Yeah. 21 MR. Yeah. 22 MR. : Hey. I apologize. A call 23 reception is going in and out. I apologize for 24 that. 25 MR. : Okay. 191 1 MR. : I did. Before I got the 2 money approved for the new camera system, I got 3 together with the engineering tech, and I wrote 4 -. I also, I wrote a work order over $10,000, S because the camera system as an asset is worth 6 over $10,000. To get that fixed. Because I 7 had that problem, I had also the fire alarm 8 was, I had a problem with that. I had a proble 9 with that. I had a problem with the voicemail 10 system. Everything. When I got to the 11 building, everything was just at a pretty bad 12 state. That wasn't the only thing that was 13 looked over as, like, oh, we need to get this 14 fixed. The whole building was, as far as 15 communication wise, it was pretty bad. 16 MR. : Yeah. But the question I 17 had was, did you write any reports or -- 18 MR. : I -. 19 MR. -- any emails to upper 20 management -- 21 MR. : Yes. 22 MR. -- saying, hey, listen -? 23 MR. : Yes. 24 MR. : Okay. Do you recall who 25 you sent it to? 190 1 MR. : Based on the question I 2 was asking, if, you said there was a few 3 instances where the cameras went down, it 4 wasn't workin for a few days. 5 MR. : Yes. 6 MR. : How bad do you think that 7 (Indiscernible *01:51:45) is, where the camera 8 is not reiiiiiiilior a few days? 9 MR. : I think it's pretty bad 10 when you're in a prison, and, you know, like, 11 in my experience, because I was custody 12 (Indiscernible *01:51:52) before, like, there 13 has been assaults on inmate on inmate, among 14 our staff, or somebody possibly bringing 15 contraband in the building. And you have no 16 recording to see what was going on. Then you 17 have pretty bad video at that, that it was a 18 priority. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : Yeah. All that stuff 21 should be fixed. 22 MR. : And based on those 23 instances did ou ever write up any reports -- 24 MR. : Yes, I did. 25 MR. : -- did you send it to -? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 192 MR. : I would have sent it to , and he was my first facility manager. MR. MR. MR. name? MR. know. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. : Can you spell that last . I don't it would be He spells it weird. MR. All right. So, can that be the fourth request, then? So, we talked about the emails between SigNet -- MR. a And then, my -- MR. : -- (Indiscernible *01:53:53 but -- MR. : -- and then, . He's the engineering tech. He's the one that actually wrote up the report to get EFTA00064241 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 193 sent to the regional office, as far as the money for the camera project. MR. All right. So, those emails. And an other emails -- MR. : And then -- MR. • you can find. MR. He was also the general foreman when this happened, too. MR. : All right. So, can you, at least those three people, as well as anybody else. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. • So, all the emails from SigNet, and any, really, emails with regard to MR. : Okay. MR. • -- the cameras issue -- MR. Camera issue, MR. : -- that you can provide to us. That would be greatly beneficial for us, that we know who was notified, when -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. • -- who, you know -- MR. : That's fine. 1 MR. 2 have been taken, 3 taken. 4 MR. Mm-hmm. 5 MR. I just want to real 6 quickly follow up on these things, to make sure 7 what we have is accurate. Specifically, with 8 regard to the FBI report that said, "There was 9 a system failure of DVR-2 on July 29th, 2019, 10 and a motherboard failed on DVR-2 on August 11 8th, 2019. The hard drive failure occurred on 12 August 10th, 2019." Again, is that information 13 that you provided to them, or did they obtain 14 that themselves? 15 MR. : I think they obtained that 16 themselves. have -- 17 MR. : All right. And do you 18 know -- 19 MR. M i l -- the exact dates. 20 MR. : -- do you know the 21 difference between, like, a system failure, a 22 motherboard failure, and a hard drive failure? 23 MR. Mi Yes. 24 MR. : All right. So, I'm going 25 to read you what we have obtained regarding 194 : -- what actions should and when they should have been 195 1 this, and I want you to tell me if it's 2 accurate or not. 3 MR. • Okay. 4 MR. : So, it says, "Per IIII 5 from SigNet," regarding, this is still 6 regarding a system failure, "this looks to be 7 an error coming from the video management 8 server. 9 MR. a Mm-hmm. 10 MR. : There is an application 11 within the video management system software 12 called Supervision. This application monitors 13 connection between the main application server, 14 which mans es authentication -- 15 MR. : Authentication. 16 MR. : -- for users to access 17 live recorded video, and an ability to export 18 video, along with many other customizable 19 features. And system devices, such as DVRs, 20 cameras, video encoders, or video decoders. If 21 this is the case, then this would have been the 22 message from the Supervision application, 23 showing that there was a lost connection to 24 DVR-2." 25 MR. : DVR-2. Right. 196 1 MR. Does that sound accurate 2 to you? 3 MR. Yes. It's -. Yeah. 4 MR. So, they would have 5 obtained this information, it sounds like, from 6 that application Supervision? 7 8 MR. Yes. MR. : Okay. But you didn't 9 check that. Correct? 10 MR. I n No. 11 MR. : All right. So, do you 12 know what caused that system failure on July -- 13 MR. No. I have -- 14 MR. . 29th? 15 MR. -- I have -. No. 16 MR. But you said you were 17 working on the mother -. Or you were -- 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. -- you were working on 20 the system ri ht around that time? 21 MR. : Yes. 22 MR. All right. So, likely, 23 it was whenever you were working on the system 24 around July 29th, 2019, that caused the DVR, 25 the recorders to stop recording? EFTA00064242 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 197 MR. : No. I checked everything before I -. MR. Well, we just talked about previously, is that you checked everything when you were working on it, for the time prior -- MR. : Prior to me -- MR. • -- to when you worked on it. MR. Yeah. MR. So, likely, that's when the -- MR. MR. MR. MR. -- to me working on it. : When the -- -- recorders stopped? -- yeah. Okay. So, whatever, whatever work you were doing on it, likely stopped the recordings, but no one presented the issue to August 8th, 2019? MR. : Yeah, but I always check everything after I'm done. That's very strange that I -- MR. : Well, again, we think you checked it, but it looks like, it sounds like 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 198 you checked it for the time -- MR. MR. you fixed MR. MR. MR. : Yeah. -- period prior to when ou thought you fixed it. : I fixed it. Yeah. So -. : But that doesn't sound like me. Just how I am -- MR. : Well, no, no, no, this is what you told us. MR. -- yeah. MR. So -- MR. : Yes, yes. But I would have checked to make sure, like, a couple days later, oka it's still working. Or -- MR. : And do you recall (Indiscernible *01:57:17). MR. : -- because I'm pretty sure I looked at the Nice Vision, and the Nice Vision looked like it was fine. But there could have been another problem. But I don't pull video. Like, I don't go back to pull video foriiiiiiiiliou, I don't. MR. : So, you just don't recall if you ever went back and checked? 199 1 MR. : I'm pretty sure I checked. 2 I'm more than definite. After I fixed it, I 3 would have checked to make sure it was working. 4 MR. Because the information 5 we have is that there is no video from July 6 29th -- 7 MR. : 29th. 8 MR. • -- on. 9 MR. On. Yes. 10 MR. • So -. 11 MR. : And that's the last time I 12 worked on it. That's what it says, right? 13 MR. No, it doesn't. It just 14 says that there was a system failure of DVR-2 15 on July 29th 2019. 16 MR. la Yeah. 17 MR. : And just from talking 18 with you, it sounded like you knew that there 19 was a system failure, prior to that time, and 20 that's when you worked on it, and thought you 21 resolved the issue. 22 MR. : I probably -. Hmm. Can 23 you - I'm sorry - can you repeat that one more 24 time for me? 25 MR. We spoke an hour or so 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 200 ago -- MR. : Uh-huh. MR. -- about how, prior to this issue, ou knew about a system failure -- MR. : Failure. MR. : -- and you went in and you fixed -- MR. Fixed the issue -- MR. -- the issue -- MR. -- yeah. MR. -- or you thought -- MR. That I fixed the issue. MR. -- you fixed the issue MR. MR. that there was a • Okay. So, what this is saying, system failure on July 29th, 2019. And the information that we have is, there was no -- MR. Follow ups. MR. -- recordings -- MR. For after that. MR. -- from the 29th -- MR. Yeah. MR. -- so, the 29th on. MR. : On. Yes. EFTA00064243 201 1 MR. So, it sounds like you 2 thought you fixed the issue -- 3 MR. M i l The issue -- 4 MR. : -- but you actually 5 didn't. 6 MR. M i -- didn't. Yeah. 7 MR. : So, does that sound 8 right? 9 MR. a That sounds right. Yes. 10 MR. : Okay. And you don't know 11 -. Did you know - and I can't recall, at this 12 point - what would have caused it? You said it 13 was of old age? Because it says, "Per IN 14 , the situation could have been caused 15 by a power outage, or improper shut down of the 16 DVR." 17 MR. : I have no reason to shut 18 it down, and it had an UPS on it. So. 19 MR. : So, you don't think 20 either it would have been a power outage, or 21 improper shut down? 22 MR. : I think the way 23 everything, the old system was wired up, it 24 probably wasn't wired up correctly. I would 25 have to say that he is probably right about 202 1 there bein a ower issue. 2 MR. There would be a what? 3 MR. A power issue. 4 MR. So, even though you're 5 saying that there was some kind of serge 6 protectoriiiiiiiiithing on there -? 7 MR. : There is a UPS on it. But 8 I don't think everything was maintained the way 9 it should have been maintained. 10 MR. : So, you think it was 11 likely caused by a power, some kind of power 12 outage? 13 MR. : If it was a power outage, 14 that would ex the problem is. 15 MR. : But you don't know 16 anything about there a power outage? 17 MR. IIIIIIIII: No. I didn't know 18 anything about outages. 19 MR. : And you don't -. Do you 20 remember ever shutting down the DVR system, 21 prior, whiiiiiiiiiire working on it? 22 MR. : Hmm. No. Can you find 23 out if there was a generator test on the 20 -. 24 When was -? You said the 29th of July, right? 25 MR. : Well, it looks like the 203 1 reason why you found this out is he went into 2 the application Supervision. 3 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Yeah. I know. Okay. I'm 4 going to read that now. And July 29th, that 5 would have been -. Because we do do our 6 generator test monthly, but I don't know if it 7 was the 29th of July. 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. I'll add that as 9 the fifth request, find, provide any 10 information with regard to the system failure 11 issue. 12 MR. I n That's - no, the time 13 MR. : (Indiscernible -- 14 *02:00:23iiIIIIIII 15 MR. : -- do they know what time, 16 or they just have the thing? 17 MR. No. It just says July 18 29th. 19 MR. : Yeah. 20 MR. : All right. And do you 21 know when - the system failure - do you know 22 when you found out about that, and how? 23 MR. : Hmm. As far as what now? 24 MR. : The system failure was 25 the July 29th issue, not August 9th, or 8th, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 204 9th, or 10th. MR. : Oh. Not until you guys told me there was a system failure. The only thing I knew about was the, oh, that was the -- MR. : This is the thing you said you worked on. MR. : -- oh. The AMS. I had to restart the AMS. Yeah. That was -- MR. MR. MR. MR. restart it. MR. could have been MR. MR. MR. MR. too? MR. : No. Once you restart it, it's, like, it's a pretty small thing, like, restarting the AMS doesn't mess anything up, really. MR. Okay. All right. But So, you did restart it? -- yeah. So, you did shut it down? : Yeah. I shut it down and That simple. So, when it says that it caused by an improper -- : Shut down. • -- shut down. Yes. Could have that been it, EFTA00064244 205 206 1 you did restart it? 2 MR. 3 down. : Yeah. After the shut 4 MR. So, technically, it is a 5 possibilit , then, because it says you -- 6 MR. : No. 7 MR. -- no? 8 MR. No. 9 MR. : You don't think that -- 10 MR. : Hey, once you do the AMS, 11 that's just the communication thing, like, if - 12 . And not everything is talking, that's when 13 everythiniiiiiiiiiiart working. 14 MR. : Okay. And you said you 15 never would access Supervision. 16 17 MR. l a Mm-hmm. MR. : We talked about all of 18 this. So, it says, this is now issues, "The 19 motherboard failed on DVR-2. Per 20 , in the case of a motherboard failure, 21 this would cause the operating system, such as 22 Windows, to shut down or fail. When this 23 happens, it would stop recording to the hard 24 drive, because the recorder software requires 25 Windows Operating System to be operational, to 1 record data to the hard drives." 2 MR. M i Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : "Also, when the 4 motherboard fails, the network connectivity is 5 lost because the network card is dependent on 6 the motherboard to be functioning. And Windows 7 to be running, for the network card driver to 8 be operational. If and when the motherboard 9 failed, this would have caused the network card 10 to shut off, thus triggering the above message 11 of a system failure, of DVR-2. Because it can 12 no longer communicate with the DVR." Does this 13 sound accurate? 14 MR. Yes. 15 MR. : All right. Do you know 16 what caused the motherboard failure? 17 MR. a No. 18 MR. : Do you remember, do you 19 know what affect it had? 20 MR. : I just remember I did the 21 electronics thing, I just did a smell test, and 22 I knew something on the motherboard burned up. 23 You could smell that. Because I, when I took 24 the motherboard out, you could tell it was a 25 problem. Something on the motherboard burned 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 207 up. Or failure power. Or something. But it was the motherboard. Because I do remember doing that. MR. know if this outage or an MR. MR. MR. MR. All right. And do you would have been caused by a power improper shut down, or anything? : Hmm. No. No. : Huh-uh. : Now, this is just something I'm thinking out loud. Being that you told us that you fixed this issue on the 29th, but you also pulled the drives on the 10th, is what it would have deleted at that point, back to the 29th, when you had last worked on the s stem? MR. : Hmm. MR. : Do you follow what I'm asking? MR. MR. • Or it just deleted everythinii MR. IIIIIII : I -. I don't -. I mean, I don't know. MR. Because you said that, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 208 you pulled the two bad drives, it's going to wipe -- MR. : I (Indiscernible *02:03:40). MR. you're not going to be able to get MR. (Indiscernible *02:03:41). MR. -- recordings. MR. Yes. MR. So, I guess what I'm asking is MR. But there was -- MR. -- wouldn't that wipe it back to the last time you worked on it? MR. : -- no. It would have wiped out everything before that. Not the last MR. So -- MR. • -- time I would have (Indiscernible *02:03:53). MR. -- it would have just wiped it all out? MR. : Yeah. MR. All right. MR. : So, there was video after EFTA00064245 209 1 I left. I fixed it. Because there was video. 2 MR. All right. 3 MR. : It looked like it was 4 recording, but it wasn't recording. 5 MR. All right. So, if it 6 wipes ever thin how -- 7 MR. : How does it -? 8 MR. : -- how would the FBI be 9 able to obtain knowledge that there was no 10 recordings, prior to -? Because in the more 11 detailed report, , doesn't it say that 12 there is no recordings prior to July 29th? 13 MR. : Bear with me. I'm just 14 pulling uiliiiiiiiirt. 15 MR. : Yeah, but the point 16 being, you're not sure? 17 MR. M i As far as -? 18 MR. : As far as the recordings 19 not working, between July 29th, 2019, and 20 August 8th, 2019. 21 MR. M i No. 22 MR. : You know that they 23 weren't recordin on August 8th. 24 MR. : Yeah, because I had to -- 25 MR. : But you didn't -- 210 1 MR. -- check it, yeah. 2 MR. -- know anything prior -- 3 MR. : About it. 4 MR. -- to that. 5 MR. Yeah. 6 MR. And the July 29th issue 7 is news to ou? 8 MR. : Yes. 9 MR. : Okay. Well, we'll look 10 into that. 11 MR. : It doesn't state clearly 12 if they -. Was anything was retrieved, but 13 prior to 29th (Indiscernible *02:04:54) FBI. 14 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Okay. All right. Now, 15 regardin the hard drive failure. It says, 16 "Per , if there was a message that 17 stated this is in the Supervision application 18 of the video management system, this would 19 indicate that the failed motherboard had been 20 either recovered, repaired, or replaced, and 21 now functioning because this would allow 22 Windows Operating System to run, allowing the 23 recording to be in operation, and communication 24 to the application management server restored. 25 If there is one hard drive failure, the 211 1 system is recoverable by replacing the drive 2 and letting it rebuild. If there were two 3 drives simultaneously failed, then the recorded 4 video data is lost, and unrecoverable due to 5 the raid array needing a new configuration as 6 new drives are added." Does this sound 7 accurate? 8 MR. 9 MR. 10 happened? 11 MR. : That's -. Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. Is 13 really the person to explain this versus you? 14 He's the ex ert on this correct? 15 MR. and Yes. 16 MR. : They are the two. So -. 17 MR. : And then, if you don't, 18 knows the engineer, the engineer of -. 19 Those are the u s that would know. 20 MR. : So -- 21 MR. • would know somebody 22 else. 23 MR. -- more so than you? You 24 get your information from them. Correct? 25 MR. : Yes. Yes. • Does this sound like what 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 212 MR. Okay. So, when they provide us with this information, we can rely on it to be accurate? MR. Yes. MR. Okay. And what, do you know what caused the hard drive failure? MR. : No. I just think it's wear and tear because everything is so old. MR. : Okay. But that occurred on August 10th. So, it sounded like the hard drive failure occurred because the two drives - : Yes. That is accurate. MR. : Yes. MR. • -- were pulled? MR. Oh. I don't know. MR. Okay. But it says, "Per , this could have been caused by normal wear and tear -- MR. : Tear. MR. • -- and age of the hard drives." MR. : Uh-huh. Yes. MR. Is that accurate? MR. : Yes. EFTA00064246 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 213 MR. And you believe that's what happened? MR. : Yes. MR. And do you know what affect the hard drive failure had? MR. : I just know there would be no video, or, you know, the drives would be bad. You can't take anything off the drives. MR. : Okay. And again, you are the one who replaced the two drives. The FBI just came and took everything. : They took everything. MR. Yes. MR. Okay. All right. We covered everything else earlier in the interview. Is there anything else, or IIII, that we want to cover? MR. : I've got a couple of follow up uestions. MR. Please. MR. : Mr. , the two hard drives that you pulled on August 10th, to replace it, where those two the two drives you had previously replaced, or are those the different ones? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 214 MR. : Those are new drives. MR. : New drives meaning that it wasn't previousl replaced by you? MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : I'm sorry. I didn't hear you. MR. MR. yes or no. MR. I'm sorry? : I don't know if you said That's why. I couldn't hear you. : Oh, the two new drives were from the computer services. The drives that I haiiiiiiiiid. MR. : No, no, no. The question was, do you know the two drives that you said went bad, that ou had to replace, right? MR. : Yes. MR. : Were those two drives previousliiiiiiiiid by you? MR. : I have no idea. There is no way of me knowing what was replaced, or there was no s stem -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -- in place to see if I wrote down a list, like, one through 16, I replaced on this date, and one through 16, I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 215 replaced on this other date. There's -. I can't tell you what was fixed, or when, how it was fixed. There was no maintenance log of what was chap ed or repaired. MR. Okay. And we were told by that, previously, when you : had to sta and work in the camera room -- MR. : Yes. MR. -- there were situations where that you had to do work in the camera room, and if she or had to leave, she would leave the keys with the captain, and you could continue doing the work -- MR. MR. MR. MR. Yes. -- in the captain's room. : That is correct. Yes. : How come, on August 8th, you couldn't do that? MR. : There was no captain. MR. : There was no captain on August 8th? MR. : No. There was an acting captain. I don't think there was a captain. There was nob MR. • 216 1 MR. : -- yeah, there was no -. 2 But he wasn't there. 3 MR. : So, we know, on August 4 9th, he was there until at least 7:00 p.m. 5 MR. : 7:00. Oh. Oh, he's 6 probably not -. He was probably not in his 7 office, then. Because the office is right next 8 to the room. 9 MR. Yeah. "On August 8th, 10 SIS went right next to him, 11 in his office, and provided him the memo 12 regarding the issue." On August 9th is when 13 you said that you couldn't gain access to the 14 room, but we do, in fact, know that was 15 there until at least 7:00 p.m. 16 MR. : The thing about this memo 17 part, that I don't get it, is that there could 18 have been memos from before, like, that 19 decision make any sense to me. Because this is 20 not the only time the recorder failed. So, to 21 have a memo this one time, when Epstein 22 happens, like, that just doesn't make sense to 23 me. 25 MR. W. Is it -- 24 MR. Okay. So -- : EFTA00064247 1 MR. 2 MR. 3 MR. 4 MR. 5 MR. 6 suggests? 217 -- and the fact that -- -- sorry. -- there is this memo -- Yeah. -- what do you think that 7 MR. : Somebody is trying to say 8 they did their job where they didn't do their 9 job. 10 MR. : So, you think that the 11 memo was, in fact, created on the 10th, instead 12 of the 8th? 13 MR. : I don't know when it was 14 created. I'm just saying, people are trying to 15 cover their tracks. To say they were notified, 16 and they told this person, and that person. 17 When I got there, and I was trying to explain 18 to everybody how important most of the systems 19 were, everybody just looked at me like I'm 20 spinning two heads. Like, I'm not telling you 21 -. I'm, like, I came from a compound. There 22 was a medium. There is a high. There is a 23 low. There is a death row. If something 24 doesn't work, it's a jail, you have to stay. 25 Now, after Epstein happens, everybody wants to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 218 do their job. So, that's the long and short of it. MR. : Okay. MR. : I'm not trying to say that anybody did anything. But I'm just saying, like, now everybody wants to write memos, and have statements, when all this stuff was happening before, is there records of you calling and saying there was a problem? I have records of me saying there was a problem, and I I'm trying to fix the problem. And I stayed and fixed the problem. But these other people that are saying stuff, man. MR. : Yeah. So, in any -- MR. : That doesn't make sense to me. MR. : -- any of those records, you can give us, again, that's going to be greatly appreciated. I'm going to follow up with an email, asking what we talked about, but anything else that you think will be helpful, to help us? MR. : Yeah. I just, I'm sorry you guys have to go through this, because I, I mean, I'm still going through it. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 219 MR. M i. But I'm pretty sure you MR. : Right, right, right. guys want to et it over with yourself. So. MR. . Anything else, =*? MR. No. That's it. MR. MR. MR. this, then. MR. MR. MR. emails, and I will try to get you some information. MR. MR. know this MR. MR. thing. MR. cooperation. MR. MR. No. • I.? : Nothing from me. Okay. We're going to end : Yeah. • Anything you want to add? : No. Just send me the • Okay. : Yeah. Thank you, guys. I not easy for you guys -- No. -- to go over the same And we appreciate your Thank you. : Yeah. It is -. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 220 MR. : Oh, and the job failure. Was that on my part? Like, not doing my job, or not noiiiiiiiiiiybody, or what -? MR. : Well, when we're talking to people, we're telling everybody the same thing. MR. MR. really, to make, MR. MR. MR. MR. basically -- MR. *02:11:18). MR. information -- MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. Thing, yeah. It's not our decision, ou know -- : Mm-hmm. -- to say -- What -- -- we're going to (Indiscernible provide the : Information. -- to the BOP. Yeah. They determine : Determine -- -- you know, the actions EFTA00064248 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 221 MR. -- oh, he should have said this. Yeah. MR. -- you know, and all that kind of stuff -- MR. M i But look -- MR. : I mean, we will have our, you know -- MR. : -- the thing about this whole thing, I'm just going to add my part, because I came from another institution. If there is a problem, and, like, especially the cameras, somebody should be notified. Okay. I'm the guy that fixes it. Okay. , what are you doing? Have you fixed it? Now, after Epstein happens, and we've had recorder issues now, and that was what I sent the email, okay, I fixed this, I did this, I did that. But before that it was not happening. MR. : Right. MR. ..17 That's the only part I want to add. That's -. Now, everybody covers their tracks. But before this, sad to say this had to cause the whole Bureau to wake up. But MR. : Right. 1 2 3 it? 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 222 MR. a Yeah. MR. : All right. So, if that's MR. : That's it. MR. All right. MR. : That's my last piece. MR. : It is currently 10:27 a.m. on September 29th, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent , and I'm turning off the recorder. Thank you. 223 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of , Transcriber EFTA00064249