EFTA00064250.pdf

1 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: OIG CASE #: NONE 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SEPTEMBER 22, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 3 4 1 : It's Senior Special Agent 1 : My name is , and 2 . He's also assisting on the 2 I'm a Special Agent with U.S. Department of 3 case. 3 Justice, Office of the Inspector General. New 4 : Is it -- 4 York Field Office. This interview is with 5 : Yeah. 5 former SigNet employee, . And it 6 : -- 6 is being conducted as part of an official U.S. 7 Yeah. I'm right here. 7 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 8 I'm the Senior Special Agent here. So, yeah. 8 General investigation. Today's date is 9 Like here just said, where we just want 9 September 22nd, 2021. The time is 9:03 a.m. 10 to ask you a couple questions regarding August 10 This interview is being conducted 11 8th throu'h the 10th of 2019. 11 telephonically, via phone number 12 : Okay. 12 . Did I et that right? 13 And just so you know, all 13 : Yes. 14 of our interviews are recorded. 14 : Okay. Also present -- 15 : Okay. 15 : I'm goin' to read that 16 And just for 16 back. ( . I'm sorry. 17 documentation 'urposes. lust so you know. 17 : Yes. Perfect. Also present 18 : Understood. 18 is DOJ OIG Senior Special Agent 19 All right. Great. So, 19 . This interview will be recorded by 20 is going to take it. I'll only jump in 20 me, Special Agent . Could 21 if we need some clarifying information. 21 everyone please identify themselves for the 22 : Okay. 22 record, and spell your last name? To start, 23 : Perfect. And I'm going to 23 a.ain I am DOJ Special Agent 24 start the recording. 24 25 : Okay. 25 Senior Special Agent EFTA00064250 5 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Mr with the 001/0IG. IIII, can you introduce yourself, please? callin I'll. . All right. : But I gave you my formal. Yeah. Thank you. This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and the surrounding circumstances. And you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will ou a ree to a voluntary interview? Yes. : Thank you. Please let me know if you do not understand any questions I ask, and I will repeat it, or try to rephrase it. : Okay. 7 NW Was there a major you were followin ? : It's just business management. : Okay. And what did you do prior to working for SigNet? : Prior to SigNet, I actually for six months. : Excellent. And when did you beginliiiiiiiiiii SigNet? : When did I pick up working there? : Yeah. When did you begin workiiiiSt? : Oh. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm going back too far. Sorry. Si Net. I actuall worked for That as in Sorry. I skipped a whole bunch of years there. Ill No problem. : Yeah. r I'm thinking before the securiiiiiiiiiiry. Sorry about that. Okay. : And -. Former SigNiiiiiiiyee, , full name - _. I apologize for : That's - no, no - I go by 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 2S date of birth? Okay? I'm going to go through some of your background, and then we'll go into the service request. What is your current home address? : Current home address is - that's - and number Okay. And -- : Zip code is -- thank you. What is your Is this your cell phone number? : Yes. : Okay. And what is your highest level of education? : High school. One year of colleiiiIIIIIII : All right. Where did you attend college? : I went to_ Where is that? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 NW N Yeah. Oh, no. Co ahead. no. No problem. And when exactly did you work, start, begin work for SigNet? : That was April 2011. : Okay. And what was your position with Si Net? I came on as a service tech, initially. And then, I entered into the role, I want to say it was probably somewhere in 2012, middle of 2012, or maybe early 2013. I think it was the middle of 2012, they put me as the senior customer support representative. : And that was your position in August 2019? NW Yes. Okay. And what did that - as a senior customer representative - what did that osition entail? : So, that was basically traveling to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, whenever they needed their VMS video system server upgrades. Basically, any swap outs of their systems, when they expired or went out of warranty. And then, if I wasn't traveling, EFTA00064251 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 doing the upgrades, I was at home, working from my house, and doing technical support for the videoliiiiiiiiit the prisons. : Okay. So, the main client that you worked with was the Federal Bureau of Prisons? Yes. Okay. And when did you leave SigNet? 2019. : That was December 30th, Where are you employed now? I am at an based company called That's Okay. Thank you. : Off of (Indiscernible *00:05:36) and (Indiscernible *00:0iiiiiiiiii : Thank you. As part of your job at SigNet, in 2019, do you recall working on projects, or work orders, for the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York City? MI Yes. Do you recall working on a 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10 project that started August 8, 2019? : Yeah. I remember the project. I don't know the exact date, but that sounds about right. : Llty I just want to clarify. You mentioned the IIII, that where you work, have you been working there since December 2019? : No. I worked at -. When I left SigNet I went to another company. It's called Okay. And that was in : Yeah. It was December eah, basically. (Indiscernible *00:06:28) : January. : Okay. And you were there for how lon ? : Until July, pfft. What was that? July. July. It was July this year. Look it .. : And in July, yqti_came over to our -. You started working at M? : Yes. So, my last day at 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 III was July 9th. And my first day at was on July 12th. Okay. : 2021. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for clari Yup. : Now, as part of - and I'm going to go back to that last question I asked - as part of your job at SigNet in 2019, do you recall working on projects, or work orders, for the Metropolitan Correctional Center in New York ie S Yes. : Who were you dealing with at the MCC? : I believe that was : Okay. And we have a copy of SigNet service request, 24975. Because this is telephonically, I know I can't show it to you, but I will read it to you. Is that all right with ou? : Yeah. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12 : It says, "Raid (Phonetic Sp. *00:07:32) just crashed." That's under the service request. And this was created on August 8, 2019. That status shows FBOP assigned, and it's assigned to Phonetic S . *00:07:41), end . The contact we have is, , and the service location is for 150 Park Row, New York, New York. Is your understandin that is for the MCC? : Yes. I believe so. I don't know their exact address, but yeah -- • Okay. : Now, this says -- : -- is this an emergency -- it sounds -- : -- familiar. request? It says, yes. Must call. The problem was reported by . And - : . I apologize. It's . And I'm going to read the comments here. The earliest comment, it looks like, is on - it's by you - on August 8th, at EFTA00064252 13 1 3:36 p.m. It states that the a ssi nment on 2 Au ust 8th to 16th, all da for 3 , and was been 4 created. It says will be working 5 on this. Get a case started with Qognify? 6 : Do you want to start with 7 August 8th first. Is that what you started 8 with? 9 10 : Okay. Sorry. 11 : It's Qognify. That's Q-O-G- 12 N-I-F-Y. Is that your internal system? 13 : No. So, Qognify is the 14 video manufacturer of the software that they 15 were using. At the time, though, they were - I 16 believe - their system was a Nice Vision 17 (Phonetic Sp. *00:08:57) system, just to give 18 you guys a little background on it. So, Nice 19 Vision was the prior company. 20 Mi Okay. 21 : When most of the prisons 22 got their video systems. And then, Qognify 23 basically purchased, or bought, Nice Vision. I 24 want to say that was probably in, like, 2018. 25 Maybe 2017. 14 1 In Okay. So, and that's why -- 2 : So, they rebranded, 3 basically, the new systems that they were 4 puttiii. 5 : Understood. Okay. And then, 6 the assignment was created at 3:36 p.m. There 7 is a comment by - that's you, 8 right? - at 3:38 p.m. And -- 9 : Yeah. 10 IM! -- it looks like someone 11 addressed it to you. It says, "Hi, IIII. 12 Unable to locate anything official. The basic 13 steps are as following: One, set the raid 14 level to none, and save. It will restart it 15 with all drives being 3. Replace any faulty 16 drives. Two, set the raid level to five, and 17 save. It will restart and begin 18 initialization. The password is 1111. Four 19 ones. And if I recall correctly, once the raid 20 to is created, you will need to restart 21 Windows, and create the proper partitions. 22 I'll keep looking, but that should get you 23 going. Best regards, (Phonetic Sp. 24 *00:10:13 Senior Siiiiiiiiiiineer." 25 . Okay. I was 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 15 wondering who that was. I was going to guess Phonetic Sp. *00:10:19), but -. : Is that someone -- : Okay . -- internally, or is that from nif ? : No. So, that -- yeah - that'iiiiiiriiiify technical support engineer. : So, you reached out to Qognify and to get assistance on this matter, and the res onded on these are the steps? Mm-hmm. : All right. And the next al ie next comment I have is by IIII , on August 14th, 2019. 8:02 p.m. So, this is approximately six days after the incident. " called us on Thursday, August 8th, stating that he had two bad drives in his raid unit. Off the Nice Vision Pro, Unit NVR (Phonetic Sp. *00:10:57). We advised him to get replacement drives. Once they are replaced, they should start to initialize, to become available for the raid 16 1 array. did not have drives 2 readily available. He checked with his local 3 CSM." What is CSM? 4 : Should be computer 5 specialists manager -- 6 That's -- 7 : I believe. 8 : -- that's internal for the 9 BOP? 10 : Yup. 11 Okay. 12 : That's what their IT 13 manager, and the IT department, I think. 14 : Thank you. "He checked with 15 his local CSM, to see if they had any spare 16 replacement drives. Once he located 17 replacement drives on Friday, August 9th, he 18 did not have access to the DVR room, to replace 19 them. He called SigNet for some phone support 20 on Saturday, August 10th, when he gained access 21 to the DVR room. He attempted to replace the 22 drives, and they started to rebuild. During 23 the rebuild process of the drives, the drives 24 were required to be taken out of raid, on DVR- 25 2. Once the drives were removed without proper EFTA00064253 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 shutdown of the recorder, the video database becomes corrupted. Typically, any time the raid is - raid on - raid five configuration loses two drives, the raid needs to be rebuild, and all data is wiped from the raid." Do you recall makin that comment? : Yeah. That sounds about right. That sounds what I would have stated. : Okay. So, I'm going to go back. Can you explain to me the phone call that you got from on August 8th, if you recall what he stated to you on August 8th? : Yeah. I'm trying to think. Well, yeah. I'm trying to -. So, August 8th, well, that was a -. Was that a, like, a Saturda maybe? No. : Maybe it was -. That was a Thursday. : Thursday. Okay. : It looks like, on Thursday, he called - August 8th - he called you, he reported the incident. You gave - possibly gave - him instructions on what to do. August 9th, he got replacement drives, but he did not 18 1 have access to the room. That would be on a 2 Friday. Then August 10th is when he called you 3 back, and it looks like you -. The incident 4 with E stein ha ened, and he called you back. 5 : Oh. Okay. Okay. Yeah, 6 because I was going to say -. Let's see. 7 Yeah. I have a different recollection than I 8 thought, because I thought, from what, and I 9 want to say, maybe that incident started 10 earlier, but maybe not. Because what I was, 11 what I was recalling on that was, me and my 12 wife were actually about, I think, let's see, 13 2019. So, that would have been -. Yeah. 14 Me and my wife and my son were out at a 15 cabin on a weekend get-away, and I remember an 16 email, I believe that was from , saying 17 somethini. he had gotten a call from 18 . Now, that could have been 19 after the initial reach out from him. That the 20 drives were down. I think that might have 21 been. So, I'm kind of questioning if 22 reached out to me initially, or if he reached 23 to , and then assigned that to me. 24 Because , I believe, was also out on 25 vacation, either that week or that weekend, as 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 19 I was, but I was kind of local. So, he had asked me to reach out or, you know, basically work with him, work with Qognify. And so, that's what I was remembering from that, because I know, I remember specifically, I was on vacation on the weekend. And trying to reach out, basiiiii ii, I want to say, like, our sales rep, (Phonetic Sp. *00:14:27), who worked, you know, for the Bureau, or worked with the Bureau of Prisons. He sold all their equipment. Reaching out to . But again, I could be -. I could be wrong on the timeframe there. But -- It's --. eithernyi_y2L_I_did work directly with - - at one point, on the case, prior to visiting the site. So, yeah. I was just trying to get that timeline right, because I don't want to tell you that it happened this specific way you're sayiniiiiiiiiiithen it didn't. : No problem. And you mentioned that you were away with your wife on a camping trip. Do you know how long the trip 20 1 was for? 2 : It was just a weekend. So, 3 I think we might have left out on a Friday, you 4 know, Friday afternoon, and then, probably came 5 back, like, Sunday night. 6 : So, it's possible that you 7 spoke to him on Thursday, August 8th, before 8 you headed out for the camping trip? 9 : Possibly. Yeah. 10 : You don't recall? 11 : Yeah. I don't - yeah - I 12 don't recall specifically. I do - and like I 13 said - I do know, I did talk to him, at one 14 point, about the drives, and that he couldn't - 15 . Okay. So - yeah - that does clear it. 16 Okay. So, that's really -. Sorry. I'm just 17 tryin to iece it together. 18 : No problem. 19 : So, yeah. He did mention 20 something about that he would check with -. 21 So, that's why I'm trying to think that it may 22 have been the weekend prior to the 8th. Or not 23 the 8th. But it would have been the 10th, 24 would have been the Saturday. I want to say he 25 reached out before then. Because I want to say EFTA00064254 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 we were out on the weekend, before that. : So, hold on. Let me just clarif : Yeah. So, let me. So I'm looking at this now, IIII. This is So, on August 8th Uh-huh. -- that's when you received, it looks like, a message from that individual. Who is it? Yes. -- saying, "Hi, IIII. Unable to locate anything official. The basic steps are as follows." So, it looks like, maybe somebody would have reached out to you before. So, in fact, that was the August 8th comment. And then -- Yeah. -- that was something that sa s comment made by you. And then -- : Uh-huh. -- the next comment made by you was actually on August 14th, 2019. 22 1 in Okay. 2 : And what ro e stating 3 here is, it's saying, " called us 4 on Thursday, August 8th, stating that he had 5 two bad drives." So, it doesn't specifically 6 say he called you. Do you know if he would 7 have called you direct, or he would have called 8 someone else with SigNet? 9 : That'sa was saying. I 10 think have called initially. And 11 then, had asked me to basically work on 12 that case because, like I said, I think 13 was out on vacation, and that's why he al 14 the case to me, asking me to work with 15 and Qognify to try to see if we could get those 16 replaced. Let me look at the year here. I'm 17 just tr in to pull it up. 18 : And you mentioned there is a 19 possibility you were away on a camping trip the 20 weekend rior to that. 21 : So, the 10th. Yeah. I 22 mean, I could try to verify that, if that's, 23 like, an absolute -- 24 Mi No, no. 25 : -- necessity. I could see. 23 1 Yeah. I know it was basically right around 2 this case time. So, it could have been the 3 prior, or it could have been that weekend. But 4 yeah. That's really -. 5 : I know it's tough. It's been 6 a couple years. So, remembering the exact 7 details is kind of hard. 8 : You know, it may have been 9 that Friday night. The 9th. So, you said I 10 was talkin to on the 8th? 11 Yes. 12 : Or I got a reply from him 13 on the 8th. Yeah. Because I want to say we 14 left out on the 9th, and we were at the cabin 15 on the 9th. And I want to say that me and 16 were maybe communicating back and forth 17 via email. And trying to kind of figure out, 18 you know, what drives he could get, or 19 whatever. So, maybe, maybe it all happened 20 right in that weekend. Because I do remember 21 something about hearing that, you know, the 22 incident ha ened there. 23 • Okay. Yeah, and I'm -- 24 Uh-huh. 25 . re-reading this. It 24 1 doesn't specifically state in your comment, on 2 the 14th, that you actually ever spoke with 3 him. It .ust sa s -- 4 : With 5 -- it - yeah - with 6 . It just says that he called us on the 7 8th. And then, it talks about, you talk about 8 how, on the 9th, he didn't have access to the 9 DVR room, to replace them. And then, it says, 10 he called SigNet for phone support on Saturday, 11 August 10th. So do you know -- 12 Okay. 13 a : -- if you were away, I'm 14 assuming this information was passed to you on 15 August 14th, when you made the comment? Would 16 that be accurate, since it sounds like you were 17 aware that weekend? 18 : Well, I do -. So, I do 19 remember talking to him, at some point, and him 20 -. Well, I don't know if I talked to him or 21 emailed -- 22 Okay. 23 -- but basically, I : 24 remember, I remember him saying that, like, he 25 was trying to find drives. He didn't have any, EFTA00064255 25 1 so he was going to check with the CSM, to see 2 if they had any on site. Then, I believe he 3 found them, and then, he said, and he called, 4 he either called me back, or emailed, and said, 5 hey, the room where the NVR is locked, and it's 6 our internal investigation office, and they 7 have the keys. I don't have access to that. 8 So, I'm going to have to wait until such and 9 such. It was probably Saturday. I think I 10 stated there that he could actually get access 11 into the room, to go try and replace the 12 drives. 13 : Okay. So -- 14 : Sorry. 15 : You just -- 16 : -- but -. 17 : -- don't know if that's 18 August 8th or August 9th, the day you left for 19 your tri ? 20 : No. I was actually trying 21 to see if I could pull up a Outlook data file, 22 because I believe I saved some emails. 23 : Oh, that would be 24 awesome. And then, specifically -- 25 : I'm just like that. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -- yeah. No be griiiiiiiiiiiiically : I want to even all of my tickets from SigNet, but promise that. Oh, that would be huge. And I think going back, as far as, like, July 29th, if you don't mind, because that's when we think that the drives may have actually gone down. ni July 29th? : Yeah. I mean, I don't know that they contacted you or not, but that would be the follow up question, after we figure out what happened on the 8th and 9th. It would be, how far back did you know that these drives, or (Indiscernible *00:20:50) you've been working with , to replace these things, because it looks like they ma have one bad on 7/29/2019. : 29th. So, that would have been about. That sounds about -. That sounds aboutiiiiiiiiiiii Why do you say that? : Well, because - again - 26 . That would say I saved I can't 27 1 like, I know that he initially contacted us 2 about the drives being out. And I want to say, 3 it took -. I remember it -. I thought it was 4 at least a couple of days of the process of 5 trying to go back and forth with him. And I 6 don't know if it was me or , basically 7 saying, hey, we've got to get drives. You 8 know, they don't sell them anymore at Qognify, 9 I don't think. Because they are basically non- 10 production drives, and we would have to get 11 refurbished drives. And I think was 12 looking on, like, eBay, and, you know, a couple 13 of our sources, to find some. So, I don't know 14 exactly, did that comment say that he had 15 drives on site? 16 • So -- 17 : Or did he order them? 18 : -- that -- 19 : Because that's the other 20 question -- 21 MEi -- it looks -- 22 : -- is, did he not have 23 them? 24 : -- he didn't have access to 25 them. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 28 : Okay. So, that may have been the aao, from the 29th. Well, it does say -- Indiscernible *00:22:07). • -- so, after the August 8th thing, it says, "He checked with his local CSM to see if they had any spare replacement drives. Once he located replacement drives, on Frida , Au ust 9th, he did not -- Okay. : -- have access to the DVR room ti .-eShem." : Okay. So then, he did have them on site. Okay. At least that's -- That's what it sounds like. • -- that's what it sounds like. Yeah. I t Yeah. : Okay. : So, I'm assuming that means that you wouldn't have sent them. Do you know who the CSM was, by chance? : I can try to look here. I'm looking at our database. I probably EFTA00064256 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 29 shouldn't have all this information, but -. It helps us a lot. We appreciate it. : Okay. Maybe, yeah. I don't pass it out to, you know, other companies, but stuff like this, I do find it useful, if it -. Hmm. Okay. I've got -. Hey. There is a camera outage. Oh. I've got e report. : What is that? : But I don't -. That shows from 8/16. These are all looking at August 16th. Which could have been the time that I actuall was on site. Okay. : Yeah, we would be looking specificall 8/10, and prior. : Okay. Let me see what I've got. Do I have screenshots? 8/16. 8/11. Okay. Let me go back and see. Let me look at this report and see if it gives me, like, a date of when this was exported to, because that could be something, if you guys need it. In Okay. : I don't know if you guys 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 30 have all that or not. : We don't have the -. This is -. This is between SigNet employees. Right? : This is an Excel document, but again, but I've got to see what date it shows on here. Because they kind of hide it in the columns. I'm trying to see if it has a date. This is basically just a camera outage report. So, I don't know if you guys need that. And if that, again, I don't know if that was ran from him, and we got that. : But you said this was on the 16th? : That one shows that it was edited on the 17th, but it - like I said - in the outage report, I thought that they give you a date when it was actually exported from the system. in Okay. : So, I would have to look at the order. But yeah, let me go back to your original. You're looking for the email traffic and everything. So, let me see if I can find that. Oh. Hmm. Oh, what's that? Sorry. I'm looking through gigs and gigs of -- 31 1 : No problem. 2 : -- information here. 3 : No. We appreciate it. 4 Thank ou. 5 : Oh, no problem. Hopefully, 6 I can find something that helps a little more. 7 Okay. So, I've got -. All right. Let me see 8 if I can look (Indiscernible *00:25:28) Outlook 9 and see, if it will load. All right. So, 10 files. Open. And export. Let's do an import. 11 Oh, import from another program or file. Oh, 12 that is a ODF. Yup, right there. Let's see. 13 Allow duplicates to be created, replace to 14 (Indiscernible *00:26:04) items. Imported. I 15 have no idea. But I'll screw my work email up. 16 Crap. 17 : No problem. Can I - while 18 you're doing it, while you take a look - can I 19 ask you a uestion? 20 : Yeah. 21 : This is, in here, it states, 22 "During the rebuild process of the drives, the 23 drives were required to be taken out of raid, 24 on DVR-2. Once the drives are removed without 25 proper shutdown of the recorder, the video 32 1 database becomes corrupted." Is that your 2 understanding of what happened, from your 3 conversation with IM? 4 : I'm - so, yeah - I'm trying 5 to figure out when that was happening, because 6 I do know that, at some point, the FBI came 7 there on site, I think prior to us showing up. 8 And I want to say that the recorder was 9 rebuilding, and they said that they had to take 10 the equipment out. And that's what I'm -. 11 That's what I'm trying to piece together, if it 12 was then that they took it out. Or if it was - 13 . Yeah. Because I don't, I don't really make 14 any sense of him putting them in and then 15 pullin them out. 16 : Okay. 17 : Yeah, because I would 18 think, once he puts them in, I mean, he would 19 leave them to rebuild. And I think I would 20 have probably made that comment, because he 21 said something the FBI coming in, they need to 22 confiscate the equipment. And then, and I'm 23 pretty sure I told him, I said, well, you don't 24 want to, you don't want to unplug those while 25 it's rebuilding because if it, you know, EFTA00064257 33 1 basically stops, you have no pick up point to 2 start rewriting. It's going to start all over, 3 and then, you're going to have gaps where 4 you're oin to be missing recordings. 5 : Now, so, do you believe, 6 then, for whatever they did, that erased all 7 prior data, anything that was saved on there 8 would have been erased? 9 : If - yeah - if they pulled, 10 if they pulled power, and pulled the units out, 11 then yeah. I mean, it would have wiped, wiped 12 the raid I would think. 13 14 : Now, if we have 15 information that the servers were already down, 16 since 7/29/2019 -- 17 MEi Mm-hmm. 18 : -- would have those 19 servers been recording up until the date that 20 they tried to rebuild them anyway? 21 : That depends, because I 22 don't remember if the -. I think those 23 servers, the way, the older servers, I believe 24 they were set to a raid five. Let's see. 25 Those are the pros. So, I want to say that is 34 1 a raid five, and they loaded, basically 2 everything was kind of compiled together, on 3 the same raid in those servers. So, that would 4 have put the OS, and the video storage on the 5 same raid array. 6 But they partition out for the OS. So, if 7 they lost one drive, then that would be okay. 8 With a raid five. If they lost two drives, 9 then -. So, if they would have lost two drives 10 simultaneously, they would lose everything. 11 The recorder would go down, and you wouldn't be 12 able to get into the OS. From what I 13 understood. So, it's possible that he lost one 14 drive and called us. Initially. Was trying to 15 replace that. And then, when, you know, 16 basically, another one went down while the 17 other one was rebuilding. That could have been 18 possible. And that could explain why the OS 19 didn't crash. 20 : So, on that note, so, our 21 understanding, there is, like, let's say there 22 is 150 cameras in the MCC. 23 Uh-huh. 24 : We were told about half 25 of them go to one drive, and half of them go to 35 1 the other drive. If that one drive went down 2 on 7/29/2019, would those cameras that were on 3 that drive had continued to have recorded on 4 the other drive, or would have they stopped 5 recording, and only the other drive that was 6 good, that housed the other half of the 7 camerALJILT_rgiorded? 8 Well, sorry. So, it really 9 doesn't work like that. But yeah. I mean, 10 yeah, in theory, you would want it to work like 11 that. But essentially, the raid will spread 12 the data over all drives. 13 : Oh, I'm going to stop -. Can 14 you ex lain what a raid is? 15 : So, a raid is a group of 16 drives. 17 : Is that, like, a DVR system? 18 : What's that? 19 : Is that, like, a DVR system? 20 : Yeah. I'm sorry. Yup. 21 Let's - yeah - let's go back. So, the DVR 22 system recorder. So, normally, their old set 23 up, I believe, had a - and that would be a PC 24 or a computer, like a server. A server. Like, 25 a rack PC server. That would contain the OS. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 36 Okay. So, yeah. Never mind. Let me take back what I said about the OS. Because now, I'm remembering their set up. I believe they had -. The way the old ones were, is they had a separate computer. They called the Nice Vision Pro units. So, that, I believe, had two drives in it. So, that would be a raid one redundancy. So, that -. So, again, the raid is a group of drives for storage Okay. : And what a raid allows is, so, like, in your case, you were just talking about if you had two drives, you had, you know, half the cameras recording the one, half the other, to the other one, if one went down, you would technically still have all the other cameras on that drive. So, what the raid does is basically, it allows you to take - say you don't have that scenario, of losing half your cameras - the raid allows you to put, you know, there is a number of drives that it requires to have for certain raid levels. But basically, it allows you to, like, let's say four to six hard drives. It groups EFTA00064258 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 37 those together. So now, you - then the recorder takes the video, the video recording, and starts to spread it out over all those drives, and it basically makes a mirrored copy. So, if one did fail, it still can go back on the other drives, and access the copied files, or the mirrored files. in Now -. : So, how -. It's for the purpose of redundancy, in case you did lose a drive, you're not losing, you know, certain data that was just written on that drive. Because have gaps in the recording. : So, a raid can also be referred to as DVR system. Right? Now, if a DVR system, they have two DVRs. If DRV-2 went down completely, right? It stopped recording. Should it have -- Mm-hmm. -- stopped recording on DVR- 1? : No, because they are two separate -. They are two separate Systems. -- machines. 38 1 : Okay. And how would they 2 have known that the DVR system went down? Was 3 there any alerts that come up in Nice Vision, 4 anythin that comes up to them? : Yeah. So, it would. It 6 would normally come up on the -. It's called 7 the AMS, or the Application Management Server. 8 And that's, like, the primary unit that 9 controls the whole video system. And then, you 10 add recorders underneath that AMS. Depending 11 on how many cameras you have. That's how they 12 kind of allocate recorders. So, if you have 13 100 cameras, okay, let's put 100 cameras on 14 this recorder. Let's put 100 more on the 15 second one. So on and so forth. 16 And then, Application Management Server 17 basically allows the users to authenticate and 18 log into that system, from any client in the 19 facility. Or outside if you, you know, if 20 they've managed to network that way. But yeah, 21 the Application Management Server is kind of, 22 like, the gateway to let people in, to view the 23 video. And then, that also manages the traffic 24 of, okay, you want to see this video and this 25 recorder. Okay, you've got, you know, you've 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 got correct credentials. to view that camera. And feed Okay. -- to So, yeah. In short, the AMS would normally have alerts, in an application, I believe it's - it's not Investigator - it's called Supervision. Mm-hmm. : There was five different applications for Nice Vision. Supervision would keep all of the, like, the hardware, and I think most software events, in that application. And I think you could control, basically, if you had pop-ups messages or anything. But as far as if you didn't go to that server physically, and check, from what I know from the Bureau, they did not allow those servers to send email notifications out. MEi So -. : Because that would have required them to load with an email client, on the server, and then, you know, basically act like it's, you know, someone's account on that 39 Okay, you're allowed then, it sends the their client station. 40 1 server, to send those email notifications out 2 to other people in the facility there. And as 3 far as I know, up until I left, they didn't 4 allowed that. 5 So -- 6 : So, you had, you would have 7 to go the physical server, to see those 8 notifications. Or you would -. Well, I take 9 that back, because you could go on the client 10 and log into Nice Vision. And then, check the 11 Supervision. But it's not going to send you, 12 like, an email notification. 13 : So, I want to clarify this 14 for this. If you log into Nice Vision, let's 15 say you're reviewing the video footage -- 16 Mm-hmm. 17 -- if you log in, there would : 18 have been an alert, saying that these cameras 19 are not recordin ? 20 : Yes. If you -. Yeah. 21 : Now -- 22 : Normally. I don't -. Now, 23 I don't know if there would have been a pop-up. 24 I would say, to be safe, you would have to 25 actually go into that Supervision app. So, EFTA00064259 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 like I said, there was multiple apps, and most of the time, from what I see, you've got -. So, there is a control app that's normally for, you know, you can play back video and see live video in that application. And then, there is an app called Site Builder, and that's basically letting you set up the site. But the Supervision app would be where you check on the status of, okay, if your recorder is offline, if you've got a bad hard drive, things like that. So, that's where you have to go, to see that. So, I don't know if they had pop-up alerts on there, and you, like I said, I think you could set those up to pop- up on your machine. But again, that would dependent if you're logged in to Nice Vision. And you have those pop-up alerts turned on. Otherwise, you would have to log in, go to that application, and look at the list of alerts -- To see it. Okay. • -- to see what was going on. : Or, if they tried to review video, they would realize the fact it was not recording. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 42 : Right. That's the other way. Okay. : Well, that goes back to, I don't think that you actually ever answered this question. I think we got kind of diverted. Was -- Sorry. -- you were talking about the half of the video that were on the one server, if that server went down, would have that other server, then, captured it? Where you're saying the mirrored it. Would have they have captured that video, that, you know, the server went down on 7/29/2019, the other server is good. Would those videos have been saved somewhere, if they were still a live feed was going? : Okay. So, you're saying, if the server two went down, but server one stayed up, you're asking, could you retrieve the video from server two on server one? Correct. No. Because you have to have a redundant server backup. 43 1 And they didn't, in this 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 went down. Yu p. 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 case? a No. : All right. So, regardless if they pulled the drives when it was being rebuilt on the 10th, if the server went down on the 29th of July, nothing would have -. They wouldn't have been able to extract anything from 7/29 to August 10th, anYwaiiIIIIIIIIII : Yeah. If the whole server Okay. : And just to clarify, I think my understanding is, when the FBI got in there on Saturda morning - - Mm-hmm. -- already had pulled out two drives. Okay. 1 1 : And he was rebuilding it. : Okay. : So, if they walked in, and if - let's just say FBI followed the proper protocol, they shut it down properly, they 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 44 ulled it down. And is it possible, when went to replace the drives, when he replaced the drives, he could have wiped out whatever was saved on the drives? : If - yeah - it just depends if they showed if they were bad. So, or if they were totally, like, wiped. And non- retrievable. All right. Because I thought --In (Indiscernible *00:39:07). -- what you were saying - in Sorry. Go ahead. : -- was that was n rebuildini them -- : Yeah. -- and that's what he should have done, was to replace those drives, but then, the FBI pulled the ones that he was replacing. Is that not correct? That he was rebuilt.= : I don't know if they pulled the drives, or if they pulled the whole recorder out. EFTA00064260 45 1 : They pulled the whole system. 2 And my understanding is, when they left the 3 MCC, the took the whole system with them. 4 : Okay. Then that, I think 5 that was when I actually showed up on site the 6 followin . 7 : And then, you guys set up a 8 new s stem for them, right? 9 : Yes. Yeah. Because I know 10 11 Okay. 12 : I know that FBI met me 13 there. Yeah. They showed up when I was kind 14 of getting the new system set up. And then, 15 they kind of jumped in and they were doing 16 stuff, and asking me questions about a, you 17 know, check to see where those video gaps and 18 stuff like that. Okay. So, I'm starting to 19 remember a little bit. 20 On the drives that you're talking about, 21 so, I want to say that we actually suggested to 22 him to pull all of the drives out, and try to 23 rebuild it, because I think that was our normal 24 protocol. If, let's say you had a bad drive, 25 sometimes on those older Pro units, you can 46 1 pull one out. As long as you don't have, like, 2 two failed drives, like I was saying on our 3 range five. 4 : Okay. 5 NW Because if you have two 6 failed drives, you're not going to do anything 7 to fix it. But if you had one, you can pull 8 one out, and refeed it, and it will give you a 9 status on the front of that recorder, saying 10 it's attempting to rebuild. So, I'm starting 11 to recall that we may have told him to pull one 12 out. 13 Okay. 14 : And let it rebuild. 15 : That would be the same -. 16 That would be based on the instructions came 17 over from a ? 18 : Yes. And so, I think what 19 I'm recalling is, I think we had him pull one 20 out, try to rebuild. That failed, I think. 21 And then, I think he told the other -. He may 22 have pulled the second drive out, that was 23 showin bad and tried to rebuild that. 24 : And then, your comment, your 25 comments exactly on this is, "He attempted to 47 1 replace the drives, and they started to 2 rebuild. During the rebuild process of the 3 drives, the drives were required to be taken 4 out of the raid on DVR-2. Once the drives are 5 removed without proper shut down of the 6 recorder, the video database becomes corrupted. 7 Typically, any time the raid on a raid five 8 configuration loses two drives, the raid needs 9 to be rebuilt, and all data wiped from the 10 raid." Does this - based on your comment - 11 does it mean that - your understanding is - 12 that he went in, tried to replace it, and he 13 pulled the drive without the proper shut down 14 of the recorder? 15 : Wait, so, you don't have to 16 shut down the drive if - or, you don't have to 17 shut down the recorder if you're pulling a 18 drive out. Like, one drive. And it's called a 19 hot swa able Phonetic Sp. *00:42:11) drive. 20 : Yeah. 21 : So, what that means 22 basically, you can pull it out, re-insert it, 23 and let it rebuild. But there is a limit to 24 how many you can do. Because you can't just 25 say, okay, I've got two bad drives. Lightbulb 48 1 goes out. And try to re-insert them, let those 2 build. Because once you do that, if there is a 3 possibility of the one of the two being good, 4 and it's writing somewhat, you pull those both 5 out, you're going to crash your system. 6 So, so, and those drives, when you rebuild 7 them, it takes - I want to say it takes at 8 least eight hours. So, I do remember him 9 replacing one, and I want to say it was an 10 overnight process. He pulled it out. Put it 11 in. It looked like it started rebuilding. And 12 I think he came in the next day, and it failed. 13 I don't know if he tried it again. Or he may 14 have tried that second drive, then, at that 15 point. Tried to pull that and let it rebuild. 16 And that may have been the point where the FBI, 17 maybe, come on site. And said, hey, we've got 18 to, you know, confiscate it or whatever. I 19 don't know at that point. 20 : Yeah. 21 I don't know. 22 : And that's what my 23 iiiiiion was. Is this all talking about 24 , his actions, or is it talking about 25 both his actions, as well as the FBI actions of EFTA00064261 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 49 them pulling it, while it was trying to be rebuilt? Are you able to tell by what was read? : So, you can't send me that comment ri ht? : No. Well, I'll just keep on reading it to you. It says, "He attempted to replace the drives, and they started to rebuild. Durin' - Oh. -- the build of the drives, the drives were required to be taken out of the raid on DVR-2. Once the drives are removed without proper shutdown of the recorder, the video database becomes corrupted." So, my question there would be, like, is that new sentence - "Once the drives are removed without proper shut down" - is that anything that you're talking about with regard to the FBI removing them without proper shut down, or are you still talking about what did? I would say what the FBI because I wouldn't -. I don't think I would have put "required to be." Did I say, 50 1 "Required to be taken out," or "Required to be 2 removed"? 3 : Yeah. So, I'll just read 4 it again. 5 IM Okay. 6 : "He attempted to replace 7 the drives, and they started to rebuild. 8 During the rebuild process of the drives, the 9 drives were required to be taken out of the 10 raid on DVR-2. Once -- 11 Okay. 12 : -- once the drives are 13 removed without proper shutdown of the 14 recorder, the video database becomes corrupted. 15 Typically, any time the raid on a raid five 16 configuration loses two drives, the raid needs 17 to be rebuilt, and all data is wiped from the 18 raid." 19 : Okay. So, yeah. And 20 listening to my statement of, "During the 21 drives being rebuilt, they were required to be 22 taken out." Yeah. I wouldn't have stated that 23 they would have been required to be taken out. 24 Because there was nobody requiring him, other 25 than the FBI, to take them out. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 51 I thought that was (Indiscernible *00:45:26). Okay. : So, that's, like, you're talking about him rebuilding it, and then the FBI pulling them while they were being rebuilt? : Yup. . Yeah. Okay. : That's - yeah - that's what I'm understanding, and what I would have -- I : Thanks for clarifying -- -- yeah. -- that for us. : Yeah. : I'm going to keep moving because -- : Sorry. Sorry it took so long. I was lust, like -- -- no, no, no. uhh. No, no. I guess the main question is, is there anything that did, that was wrong, or did he, you know, was he doing everything that he could have done to rebuild this thing, but then the FBI came and 52 1 pulled it, and lost any chance of potentially 2 recoverin thin s? 3 : Yeah. From what I can 4 tell, he was - yeah - going through the process 5 of what we instructed him to do, pull the drive 6 out, insert, then let it rebuild. And yeah, I 7 think he gave it plenty of time on the first 8 drive. Like I said, I think, I think, from 9 what I remember, that was an overnight process. 10 And so, that may have been the Thursday, or 11 something, maybe. Again, prior to that 12 incident I believe -- 13 : Okay. 14 : -- where he would have 15 inserted it, let it rebuild, and came back in 16 the next morning, or hours later, and realized 17 that it had failed. And then, yeah, then that 18 second drive was robably where he went next. 19 : Well, just for 20 clarification -- 21 : (Indiscernible *00:46:47). 22 : -- on that, prior to the 23 - in that same statement - you said, you August 24 8th, he contacted you regarding the two bad 25 drives. And then, you advised him to get EFTA00064262 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 53 replacement drives. It says, "Once they are replaced, they should start to initialize to become available for the raid array. did not have drives readily available. He checked with his local CSM, to see if they had any spare replacement drives. Once he located replacement drives on Friday, August 9th, he did not have access to the DVR room to replace them. He called SigNet for some phone support on Saturda Au ust 10th. When he -- Oh, okay. -- gained access." So, it sounds like -- IM Okay. -- it all happened on the 10th, or he replaced them -- : Yeah, because he -- -- and -- -- didn't have access. Yup. He didn't have access in and then -. -- there until the 10th, : -- right? : Right. So, he started rebuilding them in the morning, and then it 54 1 sounds like the FBI came in, and then pulled 2 the drives while they were being rebuilt. Does 3 that sound ri ht based upon on your comments? 4 : I - yeah - I think so. 5 Yeah. Yeah. 6 In And just to clarify, too. 7 : Yeah. My comments are 8 going to be a little more solid than my memory, 9 I think. 10 : Yeah. 11 : At this point. 12 : Yeah. If, based on these 13 comments ri ht, and if -- 14 : Yeah. 15 : -- based on the FBI, my 16 understanding is, when they came in, two drives 17 were pulled out. And there was two drives that 18 were replaced, and it was going through. You 19 mentioned before that, if he pulls one drive 20 out, it's okay, but if he pulls out two drives, 21 at the same time, it could have possibly 22 corru ted ever thing. 23 : Mm-hmm. 24 : All right. So, it's a 25 possibility that, if he did pull out two drives 55 1 at the same time, it might have contributed to 2 the failure, and also the fact that, if he has 3 two drives rebuilding, and the FBI came in and 4 pulled it out in the middle of the rebuild, it 5 could have also contributed to the failure? 6 : That is correct. So, yeah, 7 and that's what I was questioning, is if the 8 statement said that he had two drives basically 9 out of the system at that point, and if there 10 were two drives out, then, and nothing was 11 replaced, if there was two blank spots, then 12 yeah, then the system would have already been 13 failed. As far as the video sort side. 14 Mi Okay. 15 : But again, yeah, I don't 16 know - again - if he had four total drives, two 17 old ones, two new ones, and he was kind of in 18 the process of that when they came in. 19 But when -- 20 : And I don't know the detail 21 22 : -- my understanding is when - 23 24 : -- (Indiscernible 25 *00:48:54). 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 56 : -- they came in, they took everything, there were two old drives that were sittiris Yeah. -- outside of the housing, two new drives sitting inside, that -- NW -- he could have replaced Okay. that mornin : Okay. Gotcha. So -. : So, yeah. I don't know at that process, or, at that point, if he - yeah - basically maybe pulled, you know, maybe he had attem ted both old ones. : (Indiscernible *00:49:15) SigNet. : Maybe they failed. And then, he said, okay, I'm going to pull those. This is all speculation, at this point, but yeah, he could have. If they both failed at that point, then yeah, it would have been screw Si Si: Who actually -- : Because he -- EFTA00064263 57 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -- go ahead. Sorry. -- he had already lost the two d/i2h_2I_that point. IIIIIIIIII: So, White House, at SigNet, would have walked him through this process? : That would have been, probaiiiiiiiiiin me and : But you both were on vacation, technically. Right? Yes. I think both of you were on campin tri s. So, would -. : And I want to say -. So, ou had mentioned, there was a comment from . And so, he had actually started with SigNet, I believe it was February of 2019. So, yeah. He was a former Bureau employee. He' was a -. What's -? com tech (Phonetic Sp. *00:50:04), (Indiscernible *00:50:04) city. And then, we brought him on to work with SigNet because he knew, he knew Nice Vision pretty well. have -- : Okay. You think he might So-. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 -- worked with him? : That's kind of what I'm wondering because, that kind of started to ring a bell, since, if me and were out, basically pushed it to me. And I don't think I had access to, like, our -. Something was -. It might have been, like, my internet service, or phone service, or something, because I, I mean, I was out in the middle of nowhere. At that point. So, I may have tried to text him, or, you know, if we went into town or something, and I contacted him, and said, hey, you know, this is what's going on. Can you get a case started? That may have been what I had done. So, he_m_Five had a little bit of interaction with IIIIIII, as well. : Okay. I'll reach out to him I : More at least -- : -- about that, too. --, now was there -- : I'm look -. -- any additional comments? No. That's all -- : About him on that case? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 : -- that's all. That was the only comment over there. There is nothing else in there. : They didn't give you any other tickets, right? No. : I'm going to look and see if I have more tickets. I don't know if I saved the tickets, or if I just saved contacts, but -. : I'm going to ask you that, if you can get everything together, right? : Mm-hmm. : Everything you have on this tickets, any communications, things like that, can you forward that over to me? Yeah. We actually have another interview starting at 10:00. So, I'm going to wrap it u uick. All right. Yup. We're not trying to push you off. Just had a question for you. Mm-hmm. Do you recall, prior to 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 60 August 8th - right? - were there any issues that ou were aware of, with the MCC cameras? : Prior to August 8th. No. So, whenever - again, I don't know if the -. So, that's where I was unclear on the weekend, basically. But I think we may have clarified that, that everything happened on the 8th, through the 10th. So, I think, prior to the 8th, I may have known about - yeah, I mean - I may have known about issues through correspondence with Okay. : He may have been working. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah. And I would say, August 8th is when I definitely picked up the case. : Understood. Okay. So, but you were not aware of any other issues, prior to it? MI No. Thank you for taking the time to talk to us today. Is there anything that you think that we've missed to ask, or anything pertinent that you think will be useful for our investigation? EFTA00064264 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 61 : I don't believe so, at this time. Yeah. But if I can think of anything, I can siiiiiiiiiime information over, but -. : I appreciate that. You have my email address. Anything you have, if you can forward that over to me, I would really appreciate it. Okay. Mm-hmm. : Yeah. I'll take a look here in a few minutes, and see if I can find some stuff. to talk to interview. 22nd, 2021. the intervi : Thank you for taking the time us today. 11 Yes. And -- I'm going to end the : All right. Not a problem. The time is 9:55 a.m. oiliiiiember This is Special Agent , and ew is being ended. 62 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of , Transcriber EFTA00064265