EFTA00083933.pdf

Confidential Page 1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK x Plaintiff, -against- GHISLAINE MAXWELL, Defendant. Case No.: 15-cv-07433-RWS **CONFIDENTIAL** x Continued Videotaped Deposition of GHISLAINE MAXWELL, the Defendant herein, taken pursuant to subpoena, was held at the law offices of Boies, Schiller & Flexner, LLP, 575 Lexington Avenue, New York, New York, commencing July 22, 2016, 9:04 a.m., on the above date, before Leslie Fagin, a Court Reporter and Notary Public in the State of New York. MAGNA LEGAL SERVICES 1200 Avenue of the Americas New York, New York 10026 (866) 624-6221 MAG NA 0 LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083933 Confidential Page 2 1 2 APPEARANCES: 3 On Behalf of the Plaintiff: 4 BOIES SCHILLER & FLEXNER, LLP 333 Main Street 5 Armonk, New York 10504 BY: DAVID BOIES, ESQUIRE 6 7 8 BY: BOIES SCHILLER & FLEXNER,LLP Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 MEREDITH SCHULTZ, ESQUIRE SIGRID McCAWLEY, ESQUIRE 9 SANDRA PERKINS, PARALEGAL 10 FARMER JAFFE WEISSING EDWARDS FISTOS & 11 LEHRMAN, 12 Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301 BY: BRAD EDWARDS, ESQUIRE 13 14 PAUL G. CASSELL ES UIRE 15 at ace ity, to 16 J. STANLEY POTTINGER PLLC 17 South Salem, New York 10590 18 BY: STAN POTTINGER, ESQUIRE 19 On Behalf of Defendant: 20 HADDON MORGAN FOREMAN 21 Attorneys for Defendant 22 Denver, Colorado 80203 BY: JEFFREY S. PAGLIUCA, ESQUIRE 23 LAURA A. MENNIGER, ESQUIRE 24 Also Present: 25 MAGNAO LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083934 Confidential Page 3 1 2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is DVD No. 3 1, Volume II, of the continued video 4 recorded deposition of Ghislaine Maxwell 5 in the matter against 6 Ghislaine Maxwell, in the United States 7 District Court, Southern District of New 8 York. 9 This deposition is being held at 10 New York, New 11 York, on July 22, 2016 at approximately 12 9:04 a.m. 13 My name is Rodolfo Duran. I am the 14 legal video specialist. The court 15 reporter is Leslie Fagin, and we are 16 both in association with Magna Legal 17 Services. 18 Will counsel please introduce 19 themselves. 20 MR. BOIES: This is David Boies, of 21 Boies, Schiller & Flexner, counsel for 22 plaintiff. 23 MS. SCHULTZ: Meredith Schultz, 24 from Boies Schiller & Flexner, counsel 25 for plaintiff. MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083935 Confidential Page 4 1 2 MR. EDWARDS: Brad Edwards, also 3 representing the plaintiff, 4 5 MR. POTTINGER: Stan Pottinger, 6 also representing the plaintiff. 7 MR. CASSELL: Paul Cassell, from 8 Salt Lake City, Utah, also representing 9 10 MR. PAGLIUCA: Jeff Pagliuca and 11 Laura Menninger, on behalf of Ms. 12 Maxwell. 13 And Ms. McCawley has also entered 14 the room, and we have an assistant from 15 Boies Schiller from the Fort Lauderdale 16 office here today as well today. 17 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Will the court 18 reporter please swear in the witness. 19 GHI SLAINE MAXWEL L, 20 called as a witness, having been duly 21 sworn by a Notary Public, was 22 examined and testified as follows: 23 EXAMINATION BY 24 MR. BOIES: 25 Q. Good morning, Ms. Maxwell. When MAG NA 0 LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083936 Confidential Page 53 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 MR. PAGLIUCA: Why don't we both 3 stop making speeches. 4 BY MR. BOIES: 5 Q. Ms. Maxwell, let me use the term 6 that your lawyer used of sexual activities. 7 We've been talking about intercourse and 8 we've been talking about oral sex. 9 Did you engage in any sexual 10 activities with Mr. Epstein other than sexual 11 intercourse and oral sex? 12 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 13 and foundation. 14 A. Can you ask the question again, 15 please? 16 Q. Sure. 17 Did you engage in any sexual 18 activities with Mr. Epstein other than what 19 you have referred to as sexual intercourse 20 and oral sex? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did you engage in any sexual 23 activities with anyone other than Mr. Epstein 24 at his home in New York? 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083937 Confidential Page 54 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 and foundation. 3 A. No. 4 Q. As you understand the term sexual 5 activities, what does that encompass? 6 A. In what context are you asking? 7 I'm not sure I understand the question. 8 "Sexual activities" meaning kissing or 9 something? 10 Q. Kissing, touching with hands or 11 mouths or other parts of your body. 12 A. That would form sexual activity 13 Q. Using sexual activity in that 14 sense, did you engage in sexual activities 15 with anyone other than Mr. Epstein at his 16 home in New York? 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 18 and foundation. 19 A. No. 20 Q. Whenever I use the term sexual 21 activities, I will be using it in the way we 22 just defined it. Do you understand that? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did you engage in sexual activities 25 with anyone other than Mr. Epstein at Mr. MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083938 Confidential Page 55 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 Epstein's home in Palm Beach? 3 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 4 and foundation. 5 A. I did. 6 Q. With whom? 7 A. I don't actually have a name. 8 Q. Did you know the name at the time? 9 A. At the time I did. 10 Q. When was this? 11 A. Sometime in the '90s, the late '90s 12 and early 2000s. 13 Q. Was there more than one person with 14 whom you engaged in sexual activities other 15 than Mr. Epstein at Mr. Epstein's home in 16 Palm Beach? If the question is unclear, I 17 will rephrase it. 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. How many people other than 20 Mr. Epstein were there with whom you engaged 21 in sexual activities at Mr. Epstein's home in 22 Palm Beach? 23 A. A few. 24 Q. How many? 25 A. I don't have a number. MAGNA 0 LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083939 Confidential Page 56 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 Q. Approximately? 3 A. A few. 4 Q. More than ten? 5 A. A few is a few. 6 Q. Is a few more than ten? 7 A. A few is not more than ten. 8 Q. Is a few more than five, as you use 9 the term? 10 A. No. 11 Q. So it would be fewer than five 12 people? 13 A. It's a few people. 14 Q. But I'm saying, I'm trying to get 15 an understanding of what you mean by a few? 16 A. I understand that. 17 Q. And as you use the term few, can 18 that include more than five people? 19 A. I just said it's five or less and 20 it's a few. I'm not prepared to characterize 21 a number because I just don't have a number. 22 Q. Do you remember the names of any of 23 the people with whom you engaged in sexual 24 activities at Mr. Epstein's home in Palm 25 Beach? MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083940 Confidential Page 57 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 3 and foundation. 4 A. I do not. 5 Q. Can you describe any of the people 6 with whom you engaged in sexual activities at 7 Mr. Epstein's home in Palm Beach? 8 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 9 and foundation. 10 A. The description that I have is 11 somebody who is roughly my age, and I recall 12 a blond and I recall a brunette, and that's 13 pretty much what I recall. 14 Q. And the people that you recall as 15 people with whom you engage in sexual 16 activities at Mr. Epstein's home in Palm 17 Beach, male or female or both? 18 A. Female. 19 Q. Where in Mr. Epstein's home in Palm 20 Beach were you when you engaged in sexual 21 activities with the females that you have 22 referred to? 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 24 and foundation. 25 A. Master bedroom. MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083941 Confidential Page 85 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 only area that the witness was precluded 3 from talking about in the first 4 deposition. So that's where we're at. 5 MR. BOIES: I think that directly 6 misreads the judge's order, including 7 where it says: Defendant is ordered to 8 answer questions relating to defendant's 9 own sexual activity with or involving 10 Jeffrey Epstein, with or involving 11 plaintiff, with or involving underage 12 females, involving or including massage 13 with individuals defendant knew to be or 14 believed might become known to Epstein. 15 MR. PAGLIUCA: All of it is 16 preceded by the word sexual activity. 17 MR. BOIES: I think your point of 18 view is an interesting one, but we will 19 see what the judge rules on it. 20 BY MR. BOIES: 21 Q. The women that you have described 22 as joining you and Mr. Epstein in three-way 23 sexual activities, were these people who you 24 believed were professional masseuses? 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083942 Confidential Page 86 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 and foundation. 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did any of the women that you have 5 said engaged with you and Mr. Epstein in 6 three-way sexual activities give Mr. Epstein 7 massages? 8 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 9 and foundation. 10 A. I don't know. 11 Q. Did any of them give you massages? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Did you engage in any sexual 14 activities with either of these two people 15 that you've identified as the blond and the 16 brunette in the Virgin Islands? 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 18 and foundation. Asked and answered. 19 A. No. 20 Q. Were they ever in the Virgin 21 Islands? 22 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 23 and foundation. 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did you ever see any of the women MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083943 Confidential Page 87 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 with whom you and Mr. Epstein engaged in 3 three-way sexual activities outside of Mr. 4 Epstein's Palm Beach home? 5 A. Not that I recall. 6 Q. Had you met either of them prior to 7 the time that you and Mr. Epstein engaged in 8 the three-way sexual activities with them? 9 A. I don't recall. 10 Q. Had you met them before the date, 11 is what I'm asking you? 12 MR. PAGLIUCA: You already asked 13 that and she answered it. 14 A. I don't recall. 15 Q. When you and Mr. Epstein were 16 engaged in sexual activity that included 17 these other women, were any devices or sex 18 toys used as part of the sexual activity? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Were you ever involved in sexual 21 activities in Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach house 22 that included the use of sex toys or any kind 23 of mechanical or other device? 24 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 25 and foundation. MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083944 Confidential Page 88 1 2 G. Maxwell - Confidential A. No. 3 Q. Were you ever involved in sexual 4 activities in any of Mr. Epstein's properties 5 other than Palm Beach that included the use 6 of sex toys or any kind of mechanical or 7 other device? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Were you aware of the presence of 10 sex toys or devices used in sexual activities 11 in Mr. Epstein's Palm Beach house? 12 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 13 and foundation. 14 A. No, not that I recall. 15 Q. Were you aware that there were sex 16 toys or devices used in sexual activities in 17 Mr. Epstein's New York house? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Were you aware that there were sex 20 toys or devices used in sexual activities in 21 Mr. Epstein's property in the Virgin Islands? 22 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 23 and foundation. 24 A. No. 25 Q. Were you aware whether or not there MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083945 Confidential Page 89 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 were sex toys or devices used in sexual 3 activities in Mr. Epstein's property in the 4 Virgin Islands? 5 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 6 and foundation. 7 A. No. 8 Q. Do you know whether Mr. Epstein 9 possessed sex toys or devices used in sexual 10 activities? 11 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 12 and foundation. 13 A. No. 14 Q. Did you ever assist Mr. Epstein in 15 obtaining sex toys or devices used in sexual 16 activities? 17 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 18 and foundation. 19 A. No. 20 Q. In the 1990s and 2000s, did you 21 ever have possession of or use sex toys or 22 devices used in sexual activities? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Did you, in the 1990s and 2000s, 25 engage in sexual activities other than MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083946 Confidential Page 90 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 intercourse with women other than what you 3 have testified to already? 4 MR. PAGLIUCA: First of all, I 5 object to the form and foundation and 6 it's also outside of the court's order 7 because it's unclear as you question, 8 and I specifically direct you to the 9 last line of the court's order: Sexual 10 activity of third parties who bear no 11 knowledge or relation to key events, 12 individuals or locations in this case. 13 MR. BOIES: This simply asks yes or 14 no, and I think that it is an 15 appropriate question given some of the 16 witness' prior answers, but there is no 17 point in debating it, because if you 18 instruct her not to answer, the judge 19 will decide whether it's appropriate. 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: I'm just telling you 21 if you tie it to something in this case, 22 I will let her answer. 23 MR. BOIES: Are you instructing her 24 not to answer? 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: Yes, unless you tie MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083947 Confidential Page 91 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 it to something in the case. 3 MR. BOLES: I think it's tied, but 4 if you instruct her not to answer, it 5 goes into the -- 6 MR. PAGLIUCA: Meat grinder. 7 BY MR. BOIES: 8 Q. At any time in any of Mr. Epstein's 9 properties, did you engage in sexual 10 activities with any woman other than when you 11 had three-way sexual activities with 12 Mr. Epstein? 13 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to the form. 14 A. Can you repeat the question? 15 Q. At any time, in any of Mr. 16 Epstein's properties, did you engage in 17 sexual activities with any woman other than 18 when you had three-way sexual activities with 19 Mr. Epstein? 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: Same objection. 21 A. No. 22 Q. Other than yourself and the blond 23 and brunette that you have identified as 24 having been involved in three-way sexual 25 activities, with whom did Mr. Epstein have MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083948 Confidential Page 92 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 sexual activities? 3 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 4 and foundation. 5 A. I wasn't aware that he was having 6 sexual activities with anyone when I was with 7 him other than myself. 8 Q. I want to be sure that I'm clear. 9 Is it your testimony that in the 1990s and 10 2000s, you were not aware that Mr. Epstein 11 was having sexual activities with anyone 12 other than yourself and the blond and 13 brunette on those few occasions when they 14 were involved with you? 15 A. That is my testimony, that is 16 correct. 17 Q. Do you remember testifying earlier 18 today that Mr. Epstein had, on a number of 19 occasions, tried to have you join in 20 three-way sexual activities with women other 21 than the blond and brunette that you 22 identified? 23 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 24 and foundation. 25 A. I don't know who he was wanting me MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083949 Confidential Page 93 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 to have a three-way with. It was in general 3 he wanted to have a three-way. It was 4 nothing specific talked about. 5 Q. Is it your testimony that other 6 than the blond and brunette that you have 7 referred to, you don't know of any particular 8 person with whom he wanted you and he to have 9 sex with? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. But he talked to you generally 12 about wanting to do that? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. And it is your testimony that you 15 believed that you were the only person that 16 he was having sex with or engaging in sexual 17 activities with other than on these few 18 occasions, this blond and brunette, is that 19 correct? 20 MR. PAGLIUCA: Object to the form. 21 Asked and answered. 22 A. That's what I said. 23 Q. Is that still what you say? 24 A. Yeah, that is still what I say. 25 Q. Do you know the reporter by the MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083950 Confidential Page 112 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 ever see 3 A. I don't recall ever seeing her. 4 Q. Did ever engage in any 5 sexual activity with you? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Did ever engage in any 8 sexual activity with Mr. Epstein? 9 A. I wouldn't know. I would assume 10 not, but I don't know. 11 Q. Do you have any reason to believe 12 that Mr. Epstein engaged in any sexual 13 activity with 14 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 15 and foundation. 16 A. I wouldn't know. 17 Q. Did you ever give a massage to 18 anyone other than Mr. Epstein at any of Mr. 19 Epstein's properties? 20 A. First of all, I never said I gave 21 Mr. Epstein a massage. 22 Q. I will ask that question if you 23 want, but I was focusing on people other than 24 Mr. Epstein right now. 25 A. I don't give massages. MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083951 Confidential Page 113 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 Q. Let's just tie that down. It is 3 your testimony that you've never given 4 anybody a massage? 5 A. I have not given anyone a massage. 6 Q. You never gave Mr. Epstein a 7 massage, is that your testimony? 8 A. That is my testimony. 9 Q. You never gave a 10 massage is your testimony? 11 A. I never gave a 12 massage. 13 Q. Did you, or to your knowledge, 14 Mr. Epstein pay for to go to 15 Thailand? 16 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form 17 and foundation. 18 A. I am not aware. 19 Q. Do you know whether 20 went to Thailand? 21 A. I have no knowledge of anything 22 like that. 23 Q. Did you ever give anyone 24 instructions as to how to give a massage? 25 MR. PAGLIUCA: Objection to form MAGNA° LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083952 Confidential Page 193 1 G. Maxwell - Confidential 2 closed. 3 If there are questions that I have 4 instructed the witness not to answer and 5 it later turns out the judge disagrees 6 with my characterization, we will be 7 back to revisit it, but we are done as 8 far as I'm concerned. 9 MR. BOIES: The deposition is not 10 closed. There are a number of 11 instructions not to answer. I think it 12 is a fair point that if the court were 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to conclude that none of the questions that have been instructed need to be answered, we're not going to be continuing the deposition, barring some additional information coming to light. MR. PAGLIUCA: I think we agree then. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The time is 2:51 p.m., and we are going off the record. (Time noted: 2:51 p.m.) MAGNAO LEGAL SERVICES EFTA00083953