EFTA00113460.pdf

1 DIGITALLY RECORDED 2 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: SWORN STATEMENT OF MARK EPSTEIN OTHER APPEARANCES: OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL SEPTEMBER 22, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES Phone: 3 4 1 MR. The recorder has started. 1 2 MR. : This is Special Agent 2 MS. .• 3 with the Department of Justice, Office 3 4 of Inspector General. Today is Wednesday, 4 MR. EPSTEIN: And when you stated, my name 5 September 22, 2021. The time is 10:29 a.m. We 5 Mark is M-A-R-K. Not with a C., a K. 6 are here at the New York Field Office, at 6 MR. : Thank you for taking the time 7 Office of Inspector General. Present is Mr. 7 to talk to us today. 8 Mark Epstein, Attorney DO] 8 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 9 Senior Special Agent , and 9 MR. : lust for the record, you are 10 myself. We are conducting an interview with 10 , Mr. Jeffrey Epstein's brother. 11 Mr. Mark Epstein in regards to Jeffrey 11 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 12 Epstein's investigation, of his death. I'm 12 MR. : And I understand that 13 going to introduce myself for the recording, 13 basically, you reached out through attorney 14 and I'm going to state my last name also spell 14 , you reached out to us, and you stated 15 it out. My name is Special Agent 15 that there was a few things you wanted to share 16 . D-A-N-I-E-L. 16 with the OIG. 17 MR. Senior Special Agent 17 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 18 with the U.S Department of 18 MR. : Go ahead. You can go ahead. 19 Justice Office of the Inspector General. 19 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 20 . 20 MR. : Let me just ask some, 21 MR. : (J .y 21 like, just, or ask to maybe see his license, 22 MR. EPSTEIN: . E-P-S-T-E-I- 22 just so we can verify -- 23 N. 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 MR. : Attorney Richmond, can you 24 MR. : -- if you don't want to 25 introduce yourself? 25 ask him for his date of birth. (Indiscernible EFTA00113460 S 6 1 *00:01:46) 2 MR. : Yeah. Can we verify? 3 MR. EPSTEIN: Sure. 4 MR. : Or you can just ask your 5 birthday, date of birth. 6 MR. ..eah. 7 MR. : It's one or the other. 8 MR. EPSTEIN: Oh, it's only my driver's 9 license. 10 MR. : Mr. Mark Epstein has shown me 11 a photo, driver's license, and it has his 12 picture on it, and it states his name on it. 13 Just for the record, here is my credentials. 14 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 15 MR. : I'm a Special Agent 16 with the DOJ/OIG. 17 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 18 MR. : And these are my 19 credentials. Senior Special Agent -- 20 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 21 MR. 22 You can go now. 23 MR. : Go ahead. 24 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. As I mentioned 25 before, before you came, I told them that, when 1 I first heard of Jeffrey's death, I just 2 assumed that it was a suicide, because it was 3 reported as such, and that time, I had no 4 reason to doubt it. And I just respected his 5 decision to take himself out. But then, as 6 things progressed, and when more information 7 came out, it looks like, if you just looked at 8 the information, there's no way in the world 9 you would say it was a suicide. The first 10 thing being the autopsy. The autopsy was 11 conducted the next day. It was conducted by 12 the city pathologist. And I was right, I was 13 able to iiiiiiiathologist to witness this, and 14 had Dr. Barton (Phonetic Sp. 15 *00:03:00). I don't know if you know Dr. 16 Barton, biiiiiiican't get a -- 17 MS. : He's the former Chief 18 Medical Examiner of the city of New York. 19 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 20 MS. : So, he went back to his 21 office because he was hired by Mark to review, 22 and be present, at the autopsy. 23 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Normally, if I hire a 24 forensic pathologist to review the autopsy, he 25 has the right to just stand there and watch. 8 1 MS. : Just to clarify. We found 2 out, through the media, they were going to make 3 that change. So, we called the Medical 4 Examiner's Office, asking how come you haven't 5 notified the family, and what is the central 6 reason for changing this? We interviewed them 7 for about, hmm, an hour. And we discovered 8 that they really didn't have much of a basis. 9 But everybody was just closing the 10 investigation. And when I persisted, is when I 11 learned the camera on the floor, where Mr. 12 Epstein's cell was, had been corrupted. And no 13 one had actually viewed that camera. 14 MR. EPSTEIN: Now, one of the questions 15 about the camera on the tier, I don't know, 16 there's some pictures of, you know, we're 17 walking through the tier, and (Indiscernible 18 *00:05:08) all the cameras, right? That camera 19 wasn't working. So, one of the questions I 20 have is, when did that camera stop working? 21 When was the last time that camera actually 22 took a picture, you know, and have they 23 determined why that camera wasn't working? 24 Were the wires cut? 25 Was it unplugged, or, you know, why was 7 1 And then, we can get the body, afterwards, to 2 do a second autopsy, if needed. But because of 3 who Barton is, they did whatever he requested 4 them to do with the autopsy. So, there was no 5 need for a second autopsy. Barton, also, has 6 been on the Special Commission, investigating 7 prison deaths, since the Attica riots in 1970. 8 So, he's been doing this for a long time. 9 There's no better authority in prison 10 deaths than Barton. And the city 11 pathologist came out with Dr. Barton, and her 12 determination was, she could not call this a 13 suicide. There was too many questionable 14 things, you know, like the broken bones in his 15 neck. And Barton confirmed that, he also, 16 could not to call this a suicide. It was much 17 more like a homicide. Plus, there were other 18 wounds on his body. I'm, like, I have pictures 19 I could show you. And then, when we got the 20 death certificate, you need the death 21 certificate in order to recover his body, the 22 cause of death was pending. You know, pending 23 for an investigation. And then, a few days 24 later, the Chief Medical Examiner of New York 25 declares it a suicide. EFTA00113461 9 1 that camera not working? There is an answer to 2 that. You know, and I am going to get it. I 3 had, I could start showing some pictures, but 4 to keep going on, you know, they did, they 5 swabbed - under autopsy report - they swabbed 6 his fingers for DNA evidence, in case somebody 7 was there. Was that ever checked? I never saw 8 the results of that DNA testing. You know, 9 nothing has been (Indiscernible *00:05:50) for 10 that. 11 And one of the things that lit up my mind 12 on top of this, one of the big things is that, 13 Attorney General Barr made a statement, saying 14 that he viewed the camera that was outside of 15 the tier, that showed the door, and the guards, 16 as that's directly right between, that the 17 guards were just, you know, jerking off, or 18 (Indiscernible *00:06:09) web, or whatever they 19 were doing. And he saw that video tape, and he 20 said that, he said that nobody went - that he 21 personally saw it, which I thought was strange. 22 You know, that nobody went in or out of the 23 tier. 24 So, that convinced them it was a suicide. 25 You guys are professional investigators. I am 10 1 not. But for me, the lights went off, I said, 2 either this is the stupidest guy on the planet, 3 or, if Jeffrey was killed, the killer was 4 already on the tier. So, it's just things that 5 might be come into the tier to kill him, I 6 mean, there's too many witnesses, how do you 7 get somebody in or out? But if he was killed, 8 the killer was already on the tier. 9 So, for him to make the statement that no 10 one went in or out, that convinced him it was a 11 suicide. I mean, that's like a, I think we 12 agree, it was like an amateur mistake in the 13 investigations, because there were a number of 14 people inside. Right? Well, let me pull up 15 something to show you. 16 MS. Okay. 17 MR. : On that note, do you have 18 any information that anyone was actually in his 19 cell? 20 MR. EPSTEIN: There was nobody in his 21 cell. 22 MS. : Well, was -. 23 MR. EPSTEIN: There was supposed to be 24 somebody in his cell. Because he was 25 supposedly on suicide watch, doing whatever, 11 1 and he was released, and there was supposed to 2 be somebody in his cell, and there wasn't, and 3 he was taken out. He was alone that night, in 4 his cell. And so, other, like, just 5 evidentiary things, they report that he was 6 found unresponsive in his cell. And then was 7 taken to the hospital. He wasn't found 8 unresponsive. He was found dead. Okay? 9 Jeffrey was dead for a minimum of two hours 10 before they found him. And I will show you how 11 we know that. 12 MS. : Also, talk about the 13 description of the (Indiscernible *00:07:45). 14 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. A 15 whole bunch of things. I got -. I have a list 16 of the number of the photos. I left it at 17 home, unfortunately, but I will pull them up, 18 and have a look. 19 MR. : Now, are you going to 20 show us why you know that he was dead for at 21 least two hours? 22 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Yeah. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. EPSTEIN: I'm going to get to that 25 picture. As soon as I can. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12 MR. : lust for the recording, I'm just going to state that Mr. Epstein has his own laptop, and he is providing us -. He is just going to explain the pictures to us. MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. MR. : In your custody. MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Also, in the autopsy MS. : And the picture is from the autopsy. MR. : From the autopsy. MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Yeah. They also found, you know, three broken bones in his neck. Which is extremely rare to have one broken bone, when you do what's called a soft hanging. You have, like, Robin Williams hung himself with a bathrobe thing. With the belt thing. Those are soft hangings. You usually don't break bones, and he had three breaks. Which is one of the reasons they thought it was more like a homicide. If you -. MR. : So, what we're looking at is, do you know which bones we're talking about? MR. EPSTEIN: It's the hyoid bone. EFTA00113462 13 1 Something like the hyoid, is what it's called. 2 MR. : And did they ever -- 3 MR. EPSTEIN: And it really isn't -. 4 MR. : discuss anything about 5 chest compressions? Would that potentially 6 have happened during CPR? 7 MR. EPSTEIN: No. 8 MS. : No. 9 MR. EPSTEIN: No. This is the neck. 10 MS. : Chest compressions are 11 lower. 12 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Chest compressions. 13 It can break ribs. Not the higher. 14 MS. : So. 15 MR. EPSTEIN: It felt pretty useful. See, 16 this is the camera that wasn't working. 17 MR. : Right. 18 MR. EPSTEIN: That would show him 19 (Indiscernible *00:09:09). 20 MR. And they provide you with 21 all of this? 22 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 23 MR. Okay. 24 MS. (Indiscernible *00:09:24) 25 releases. 14 1 MR. : Really? 2 MS. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : (Indiscernible 4 *00:09:28 ? 5 MS. (Indiscernible *00:09:28). 6 MR. Oh, for the statement of 7 information in? 8 MS. That was just released 9 (Indiscernible *00:09:33). And announced by 10 the (Indiscernible *00:09:39). 11 MR. EPSTEIN: Do you get involved with 12 murder investigations? Is that part of the 13 normally? I mean, do you have, like, any 14 forensic experience on that? 15 MR. : So, our investigation 16 pertains to the death of -- 17 MR. EPSTEIN: All right. 18 MR. : Jeffrey. 19 (Indiscernible *00:09:59). 20 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. One thing I'll show 21 you now, before we get to it is that the only 22 way they was trying to say that, well, he put a 23 noose on his neck, and sort of jumped off the 24 top bunk. That would give him that breaks, or 25 it would be harsh. You know, like, if you saw 15 1 the Shawshank Redemption, when Brooks kicked 2 himself off the chair, you know, and fall down. 3 That's (Indiscernible *00:10:23), because it 4 has to be harsh like that. The top bunk in 5 Jeffrey's cell was filled with his medications 6 (Indiscernible *00:10:29). Nobody was on that 7 bunk. Nobody jumped off that bunk. I'm just 8 looking for the neck pictures. Also, let me go 9 back one second. Shit, I apologize for not 10 having that list. 11 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:10:54). 12 MR. EPSTEIN: Uh-huh. Also, what, another 13 question I have is, who was in charge in the 14 prison? Who -? First of all, they moved the 15 body, which you're not supposed to do. And 16 supposedly, they photographed the body, you 17 know, when they find a dead body in prison, 18 they're not supposed to move it. They're 19 supposed to get the Medical Examiner's Office, 20 so they can (Indiscernible *00:11:17) surprise. 21 I mean, no matter how you look at it, he was 22 moved. 23 Now, if you saw the photographs, when they 24 took him out of the hospital, he was on a 25 gurney, and he was intubated. They were trying 16 1 to squeeze the tube with no air in it. It 2 said, he's dead for two hours. Why were they 3 trying to make it look like he was alive? 4 Like, these are -. The EMTs - and I would like 5 to talk to them - it's , and I 6 think it's , them two EMTs. If I 7 recall, they're the EMTs that were actually in 8 the cell. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. EPSTEIN: Now, just, let me go back 11 one second. Here is another picture of the top 12 bunk. You see, nobody was there. So, I would 13 like to talk to those two guys. 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. EPSTEIN: This is the noose. Right? 16 Look at that. When the guards found him, the 17 guy was quoted as saying that he cut him down. 18 And I think the guard said . The 19 guard that found him. He said he cut him down. 20 Yeah. You see the edge of his noose thing? 21 That's a hemmed edge. That wasn't cut. Okay? 22 If this was tied to something, this would be 23 wrinkled. It would be marked from there, you 24 know, like, here, you see, like, creases in 25 this part? There would be something here, EFTA00113463 17 1 showing that this was tied to something. Okay? 2 Here is another question I have. He was dead 3 when they took him. When they found him. And 4 he was wearing - and I checked through someone 5 who was there, who said that, I guess, what was 6 he wearing in the cell? And he was wearing his 7 orange boxer shorts and t-shirt. The prison 8 clothing. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. EPSTEIN: They take his dead body out. 11 And it was either, they cut the stuff off of 12 him, because I have pictures of the boxer 13 shorts cut. Who dressed the dead body with the 14 hospital gown? Okay. Dead bodies, you cover 15 with a sheet. He wasn't going to run down the 16 hall in the hospital, with his balls flapping 17 in the wind. He didn't have to hide. So, who 18 -? Who -? Now, I know that when they took him 19 to the hospital, there were four people in the 20 room, and somebody had a hand-held video. And, 21 like, and they were working down at the 22 hospital. Where is that tape? 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. : How do you know that? 25 MR. EPSTEIN: I was told that. 18 1 MR. : Okay. 2 Mr. EPSTEIN: Also, there's a question of, 3 why was he moved? Because you know, you know 4 what lividit is? 5 MR. : Yes. 6 MR. : Yes. 7 MR. EPSTEIN: You know, you die, you fall 8 on your back, your gut turns purple, because 9 your blood settles. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MR. EPSTEIN: Nowi___hewasmoved. So, I 12 want to find out from what 13 position was Jeffrey in when he found him? I 14 know the answer to that. Because he was 15 sitting, like, right by Robin Williams, you 16 know, your ass and the back of your legs are 17 going to be broken, you know, if you're leaning 18 forward, doing it that way, the front of your 19 legs are going to be. You know, so, what 20 position was he in? After they found him -- 21 MR. : So, you said 22 made statements. Which statements are 23 (Indiscernible *00:14:28)? 24 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, he said he cut him 25 down. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 19 MR. Where did you get that statement from? MR. EPSTEIN: It was in the paper. MS. : It was (Indiscernible *00:14:31). MR. EPSTEIN: That was that published. MR. Like, recently, or was that -- MR. EPSTEIN: No. No. At the time, at the time. MR. They hadn't received the statements from him back in the day? MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. He was quoted at the time, but, you know, he said, I mean, that's what he said, he would cut him down and said, you fucked up. Or you messed up. You know, when the supervisor (Indiscernible *00:14:46), he said he messed up, he didn't do the checks. Or somethiiiiiiiiiit effect. MR. : Okay. MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. MR. : But not, like, an official report -- MR. EPSTEIN: I dont -- MR. -- stating that? 20 1 MR. EPSTEIN: -- I don't. They don't show 2 me. 3 MS. (Indiscernible *00:14:57) 4 evidence from that prosecution. 5 MR. • Right, right. 6 MS. That would be (Indiscernible 7 *00:15:00). 8 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 9 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:15:03). 10 MR. EPSTEIN: That's his neck. All right? 11 If I strangle you, now that, number one, does 12 not look like a sheet. It looks more like an 13 electric cord, because he had a CPAP machine in 14 this roomjiliIh_g_electric cord. 15 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Okay. 16 MR. EPSTEIN: That does not look like a 17 sheet. Plus, if he had a sheet around his 18 neck, it would be discolored from the 19 secretions from his skin. Okay? Now, if I 20 strangle you, metaphorically, with an electric 21 cord and I let you lie there, okay? You won't 22 get a groove in your neck, because your 23 internal cell pressure will flatten your skin 24 back out. Like, you might get a little 25 abrasion mark, or rub mark, but you won't get a EFTA00113464 21 1 groove stuck in your neck. That takes at least 2 two hours. That's how we know he was dead for 3 at least two hours, because of that. Okay? 4 That's incontrovertible. 5 MS. : It's not consistent with 6 what you thou ht was demonstrated as the noose. 7 MR. : Right. 8 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 9 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:15:52) 10 evidence with (Indiscernible *00:15:53) 11 MR. EPSTEIN: He could have been for six 12 hours. But a minimum of two. That's Dr. 13 Barton's, you know, opinion, which I take is 14 more of (Indiscernible *00:16:04), as opposed 15 to it. That's not a sheet. That looks more 16 like an electric cord. Also, you see these 17 marks above the groove line? 18 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. EPSTEIN: If you hang yourself, and 21 you put something around your neck, and you 22 hang yourself, okay, it's going to slip up. 23 It's going to go high on your neck. If 24 anything, the skin below that mark is going to 25 be abraded. Or roughed up. Because the nooses 22 1 don't (Indiscernible *00:16:27). You're not 2 going to get marks above your noose. That's -. 3 It won't go down. Your neck won't mark above 4 the noose. The noose line or whatever, the 5 ligature, whatever was used. 6 You know, where these marks above the 7 line. That means also, if you hang yourself, 8 that line goes up towards your ears. You 9 strangle with a garrote, that's the more 10 straight back. I mean, the line goes all the 11 way back and that's what to expect. Okay? So, 12 here's the closer look. The better look. 13 That's not the noose, it's not a sheet doing 14 that. That's being abraded from that. Also, 15 his eyes. And I'm going to have pictures of 16 it. When you strangle, you know, the little 17 blood vessels in your eyes burst. The -- 18 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:17:33). 19 MR. EPSTEIN: -- the tibia, whatever, and 20 it's exhibited here. Also, he has a cut on his 21 arm here. You know, so, you can see the groove 22 is in there. That groove is not coming out. 23 What number is that? That may be the list. 24 Hold on. Let's reboot. 25 MR. : When did you last - quick 23 1 question, you mentioned that you heard from 2 somebody that they had a handheld video camera 3 in the hospital. Who did you hear that from? 4 MR. EPSTEIN: Somebody over there. 5 MR. : Do you have a specific name? 6 MR. EPSTEIN: No. Okay. This is the 7 stuff. Where is the little blood vessels 8 broken, because there's a cut on his lip here. 9 Look at that. There's a bruise on the back of 10 his neck here. Oh, there's another question I 11 had before I forget, is in the paperwork, the 12 last guards to see him was Tova Noel and 13 there's an unnamed guard number one and an 14 unnamed guard number two (Indiscernible 15 *00:19:43). You see here, it's like as if 16 there's ligature. This is the autopsy. 17 Another thing you should be investigating, 18 assuming he was killed, is who's on the ward; 19 who are the prisoners on the ward? Because I 20 was also told, and this was through somebody 21 who has been reliable, through an attorney of 22 somebody who was on the ward, he said that cell 23 door (Indiscernible *00:21:47). So, you know, 24 there is an old saying that anyone can commit 25 murder, but it takes an artist to commit 24 1 suicide. If this was done, somebody who was 2 put on that ward to do this. The cell doors 3 are electronically locked. He was killed, went 4 back to his cell, and what I also heard is 5 after the fact, a lot of prisoners are 6 transferred off (Indiscernible *00:22:18). So 7 someone was planted there to do this. I don't 8 know if he's lost (Indiscernible *00:22:23), 9 find out who was on that ward, you know, that 10 was two weeks ractically. 11 MR. : Who told you that someone 12 was (Indiscernible *00:22:29)? 13 MR. EPSTEIN: A journalist. 14 (Indiscernible *00:22:29). He lied. 15 MR. : Ah. Now, that is 16 something we would very much like to follow up 17 on (Indiscernible *00:22:41)? Was there any -? 18 Can you talk to someone about how that would 19 (Indiscernible *00:22:44), or not? 20 MR. EPSTEIN: I will ask, if I can get you 21 the (Indiscernible *00:22:48). 22 MR. MIE: Okay. 23 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:22:52) it 24 was there at night. (Indiscernible *00:23:11). 25 MR. EPSTEIN: I've also heard that EFTA00113465 28 1 there's, like, 20 plus guards that were, like, 2 there that, furlough, that haven't worked 3 since. Indiscernible *00:23:24). 4 MR. : That's the same noose on the 5 floor? 6 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 7 MS. : Absolutely. 8 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 9 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:23:35). 10 Back to the tier. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. That's -. Yeah. 13 Yeah. That's not cut. It's kind of 14 (Indiscernible *00:23:45). And it's not, you 15 know, I mean, it's pretty standard sizes, I 16 believe. And this would be discolored from the 17 secretions of his neck, (Indiscernible 18 *00:23:54). Things I will also tell you is 19 that, in 2016 election, my brother didn't tell 20 me why he (Indiscernible *00:24:08). What he 21 told me is he said what he knew about 22 (Indiscernible *00:24:10), Trump (Indiscernible 23 *00:24:13), because they would have to cancel 24 the election. 25 My brother is also (Indiscernible 26 1 *00:24:19). He's worked with Steve Bannon, 2 who's worked with (Indiscernible *00:24:19). 3 Steve Bannon has 16 hours of video tape. 4 (Indiscernible *00:24:27). I know this because 5 my brother said he worked with him. And on 6 that day, he said he stopped hanging out with 7 Trump, when he realized (Indiscernible 8 *00:24:37). In the papers, they're reading he 9 stopped hanging out with Trump, and, like, he 10 fell apart (Indiscernible *00:24:39). It was 11 bullshit. Everybody was, like, (Indiscernible 12 *00:24:44). He stopped hanging out with Trump 13 when he realized Trump was a dick. That's 14 exactly what he said. And I think 15 (Indiscernible *00:24:57). All right. And I 16 don't have any proof, but if this was a murder, 17 then the government would probably 18 (Indiscernible *00:25:05). And I Know, also, 19 that hurting somebody else in a federal prison, 20 that the DEA agent transported to a maximum 21 security. He's a real bad ass and carried on, 22 and felt even worse. You know, he was brought 23 out to be (Indiscernible *00:25:21). They 24 handcuffed him before they uncuff him, and he 25 was a DEA agent who was getting the credibility 27 1 as a criminal, as a bad guy. A troublemaker. 2 (Indiscernible *00:25:30). So, it's justice 3 from, you can put people in prison that have 4 (Indiscernible *00:25:34). 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. EPSTEIN: That's (Indiscernible 7 *00:25:35). I was told that by somebody. So, 8 yeah. So, also, the thing I wanted to show you 9 here, the reason I - honestly, to be honest 10 with you - I think Trump is behind it. If 11 someone was closer on the inside told me Trump 12 (Indiscernible *00:25:53), after his death, you 13 know, someone who knows more about this shit 14 than I do. 15 MR. : Well, when you say that 16 Trump was a crook, or that your brother said 17 that he (Indiscernible *00:26:00), can you give 18 more information other than just that? 19 MR. EPSTEIN: No. He didn't tell me that, 20 but if you were a legal busines man, you would 21 know that Trump is a crook. Everybody knows 22 trump is a crook. That's why no legitimate 23 real estaiiiiiiiiiiwould deal with him. 24 MR. : And when you say, 25 "Crook," though, can you just kind of - 28 1 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. He -- 2 MR. : -- explain that. 3 MR. EPSTEIN: -- he robs people. He 4 probably close to the wealth he has comes from 5 the money he didn't pay people. He screwed 6 over, over and over again. And he gets - pays 7 them, like, a percentage of what he owes them, 8 they sign non-disclosure agreements. That's 9 how he slides. And everybody knew that. Yeah. 10 MR. : All right. 11 (VIDEO PLAYS) 12 MR. EPSTEIN: Now, this video was from 13 before my brother's death. (Indiscernible 14 *00:26:49). But wait, I'm going to get to the 15 beginning of the part. 16 MS. : Some of the information 17 about that is also in that book that just came 18 out(Indiscernible *00:27:03), when you were 19 talking about (Indiscernible *00:27:08). 20 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, let me see if I can 21 (Indiscernible *00:27:12). Oh, he asked them 22 (Indiscernible *00:27:17). All right. So, 23 this is before he died. 24 MR. : So, we're looking at -- 25 MR. EPSTEIN: I've met Trump. EFTA00113466 1 MR. • 2 as well as a 3 MR. EPSTEIN: 4 MR. 5 MR. EPSTEIN: 6 MR. 7 done? 8 MR. EPSTEIN: 9 That was. 29 -- President Trump there, news reporter. O'Reilly. Bill O'Reilly. Bill O'Reilly. (Indiscernible *00:27:54). Do you know when that was It was prior to the death. 10 MR. Prior to the death. 11 MR. EPSTEIN: But, you know, I mean, 12 personally, I think Trump was jealous that 13 people (Indiscernible *00:28:06), and wanted to 14 take that power. That's the kind of person 15 Trump is. (Indiscernible *00:28:14). You 16 know? 17 MS. : I noticed that's not your 18 strongest argument. 19 MR. EPSTEIN: No. It's not my strongest 20 argument. It's, that's an opinion. Okay? But 21 this ism strop est argument. 22 MR. : So, when is the last time 23 you spoke with Jeffrey? 24 MR. EPSTEIN: The Thursday night before he 25 was arrested. 30 1 MR. DO you remember around 2 when that date would have been? 3 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. July 8th and 9th or 4 something. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. EPSTEIN: On a Thursday night. 7 MR. : So, 2019? 8 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Yeah. It was right 9 before his death. So, he called me if he was 10 in Paris. He called me, just the usual, you 11 know, (Indiscernible *00:28:41). You know? 12 And then, the next day, he, you know, flew 13 back. And he was arrested that Friday. 14 (Indiscernible *00:28:50). Saturday morning, 15 his attorneys called me and told me he was 16 arrested. 17 MR. : And how often would you 18 talk with Jeffrey up until then? 19 MR. EPSTEIN: We would talk every couple 20 of weeks, or something like that. A week. A 21 month. That, you know, we emailed something. 22 Whatever. You know? Just keep trying, and I 23 keep telling him what's happening with the 24 family stuff, and he would tell me funny 25 stories. When - he used to hang out with Woody 31 1 Allen, though. So, he would tell me funny 2 things that Woody Allen said. I guess Woody 3 Allen is 4 MR. : So -- 5 MR. EPSTEIN: You know, we just amuse 6 other. Just kee check. 7 MR. : I don't know where we 8 heard this information from, but I was told, I 9 was informed that you were estranged for, like, 10 a number of years. Is that not correct? 11 MR. EPSTEIN: No. No. 12 MS. : You hadn't seen him. 13 MR. EPSTEIN: I haven't seen him. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. EPSTEIN: My mother died in 2004. Or 16 - yeah -. 2004. Since that time, maybe I saw 17 him a handful of times. And the last time was 18 seven years rior to his death. 19 MR. : Okay. SO, you hadn't 20 seen him for seven years -- 21 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 22 MR. : -- but you spoke over the 23 telephone a number of few weeks? 24 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah, yeah. And emailed. 25 Yeah. Yeah. 32 1 MR. Okay. And email? 2 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. It's, like, for 3 instance, I mean, I have the email exchange, 4 and when he sent me the video clip, that Bannon 5 had sent him (Indiscernible *00:29:52), you 6 know? And I asked him, you know, what was this 7 for. You know, and he said the (Indiscernible 8 *00:30:00) testimony. I said, you were 9 subpoenaed? 10 MR. : Mm-hmm. 11 MR. EPSTEIN: He said, no. (Indiscernible 12 *00:30:03). He was just, he was doing stuff. 13 And, you know, he just, he said he, I thought 14 (Indiscernible *00:30:09), he thought I would 15 find it funny. I remember, it was, like, he 16 was had a beer in the video, and I've never 17 seen my brother with a beard before. So, I 18 wrote back. I said, the funniest part is, you 19 were with a beard. And he wrote back and he 20 said, that you could tell who I was? My 21 disguise didn't work? You know, it was just, 22 it was just banter between two brothers. 23 (Indiscernible *00:30:26). 24 MR. : So -. 25 MR. EPSTEIN: So, that was the last time I EFTA00113467 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 33 spoke to him, was that Thursday night before he was (Indiscernible *00:30:32). MR. : Okay. Do you know anything about his state of mind leading up to MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. I know who he spoke to the daiiiiiiiiiie died. MR. : And who did he speak with? MR. EPSTEIN: He spoke to someone who was close to him. I mean, and they had (Indiscernible *00:30:45). Not a clue they were very surprised that this happened. And most of his, one of the attorneys gave a (Indiscernible *00:30:50) was publicly saying that he spoke to Jeffrey, Jeffrey was very upbeat. He also thought he had a good case, using (Indiscernible *00:30:56) non-prosecution agreement he had, from Florida, from years back. So, and also, when Jeffrey was first arrested, his attorneys called me and asked me if I would, back and help him with his bail. They said it's helpful for other people to participate in the bail. Because they should- have. Put him in the house in 34 1 Florida(Indiscernible *00:31:15). I know 2 Jeffrey was not going to flee. He wasn't flee. 3 (Indiscernible *00:31:19). Not that he would 4 do that anyhow. Because he (Indiscernible 5 *00:31:23). And that's what put me on the map. 6 Most people didn't even know Jeff had a 7 brother. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. EPSTEIN: We had a social life 10 together. And so, that's where my head, dating 11 back, you know, refer to it as a (Indiscernible 12 *00:31:36) proctologist. Every journalist on 13 the planet would (Indiscernible *00:31:38) to 14 try to find some dirt on me, to try to make me 15 tell this kind of stuff. (Indiscernible 16 *00:31:45). But yeah, he had two separate 17 lives. And so, bail was denied. And then, he 18 had a bail hearing coming up two days after he 19 died. 20 And this time - and he was pretty up, 21 like, you know, his jets, the house, close to 22 100 million dollars' worth of stuff for the 23 bail. The highest bail in the United Sates ever 24 was 100 million dollars. Some South American, 25 Central American, (Indiscernible *00:32:09). 35 1 But that's the highest bail they ruled on. 2 When they were going through the appeal on the 3 bail, his attorneys called me up and they asked 4 me if I would guarantee his entire bail. And 5 it has since doubled. And I agreed to it. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. EPSTEIN: And so, there might have 8 been a chance he got bail in two days. 9 MS. : Right. 10 MR. EPSTEIN: And then, he would have been 11 under house arrest. He would have paid for 12 guards. They would have an ankle monitor. 13 Camera. Whatever it would take to do this all. 14 So, if you - and I think, you know, if he was 15 going to go take himself out, wait two fucking 16 days. You know, if you got bail, then you at 17 least, you're home for a year before the trial 18 comes up, if nothing else. (Indiscernible 19 *00:32:46iiiiiiiiiiit make sense. 20 MR. : Yeah. 21 MR. EPSTEIN: If Jeffrey went. I don't 22 think Jeffre would do that. 23 MR. : So, you did actually 24 agree to the bail -- 25 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 36 1 MR. -- to (Indiscernible 2 *00:32:54) close to the bail? 3 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 4 MR. And that was two days 5 after he was found? 6 MR. EPSTEIN: No, no, no. 7 MS. : That's the day -- 8 MR. EPSTEIN: The hearing was supposed to 9 -. I agree -- 10 MR. : That's right. 11 MR. EPSTEIN: -- I agreed before he was 12 dead, but the hearing was supposed to take 13 place -. Like, he died, I think it was August 14 9th. Or something. The hearing was scheduled 15 for, like, 11th or something. There was, like, 16 a two-dayliiiiiiiii 17 MR. : And then, do you remember 18 how much the bail was? 19 MR. EPSTEIN: Close to 100 million. 20 MR. : It was close to 100? 21 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. just to clarify, you 24 mentioned 100 million dollar bail, and you 25 guaranteed it on top of it. So, that was EFTA00113468 37 38 1 technically 200 million? 2 MR. EPSTEIN: Right. And his friend 3 put up some. I don't know how much 4 David put up. But he was also in the initial 5 pool at first, (Indiscernible *00:33:31) house. 6 In Florida. David had also put up some 7 (Indiscernible *00:33:35). David Michell is 8 the one who -. The friend. And I heard he was 9 ou (Indiscernible *00:33:40). 10 MR. : Now, as far as the person 11 that he - were you saying that he spoke with 12 someone on the telephone, prior to August 9th 13 or 10th? 14 MR. EPSTEIN: The night -- 15 MR. : Or something. 16 MR. EPSTEIN: -- the evening before he 17 died, because it was (Indiscernible *00:33:54), 18 yeah. 19 MR. : And was that a female? 20 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes, it was. 21 MR. : And do you want to say 22 the name of its and ask if that's correct. 23 MR. Is the name Katrina Shuliac? 24 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 25 MR. : Is that who he spoke to? 1 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 2 MR. : And you spoke to -. Who is 3 Katrina Shuliac to Mr. Epstein? 4 MR. EPSTEIN: A friend. 5 MR. : A childhood friend, a long- 6 time friend? 7 MR. EPSTEIN: A number of years. 8 MR. : Were they in a relationship, 9 or -? 10 MR. EPSTEIN: His exact nature of it, I 11 don't know, because I didn't know of her. But 12 I know she's been -. I just found out she was 13 in the picture a number of years. I believe 14 eight years. 15 MR. : In a romantic relationship? 16 MR. EPSTEIN: I believe so. Yeah. 17 MS. : But you didn't know 18 confirmation? You had, like -. 19 MR. EPSTEIN: I can't ask Jeff. 20 MS. : Right. Obviously. 21 MR. Have you spoken with her? 22 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 23 MR. And did she say that they 24 were in a romantic relationship? 25 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. (Indiscernible 39 1 *00:34:44). 2 MR. She did? 3 MR. EPSTEIN: I believe it to be so, and I 4 found pictures. 5 MR. And have you seen -? 6 Have you spoken with her since August 9, 2019? 7 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. Yes. 8 MR. : Did she tell you what the 9 conversation, what took place during the 10 conversation? 11 MR. EPSTEIN: Just that he was -. He 12 sounded upbeat, and is that she didn't think he 13 committed suicide. Because it didn't sound 14 like he was oin to do that. 15 MR. : But did she say anything 16 that they talked about, though? 17 MR. EPSTEIN: No. I didn't want to get 18 too personal. And, you know, at the time it 19 was , like, you know, my brother is dead, I 20 (Indiscernible *00:35:08) conversation that I 21 need to know. You know? 22 MR. : When did you speak with 23 her? 24 MR. EPSTEIN: A number of times since 25 then. 40 1 MR. Okay. But when you 2 specifically talked about the conversation that 3 she had with Jeffrey, (Indiscernible 4 *00:35:18)? 5 MR. EPSTEIN: That was -. I don't 6 remember the exact date. But I think it was 7 just a few weeks of the death. 8 MR. : Okay. But she didn't 9 tell you anything specifically why he contacted 10 her, or what they spoke about? 11 MR. EPSTEIN: No. 12 MR. : No. Just that he sounded 13 upbeat? 14 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. He was. Yeah. 15 That's, like, she made (Indiscernible 16 *00:35:41). 17 MR. Okay. 18 MR. : Was she surprised that he 19 called her? 20 MR. EPSTEIN: I don't -. I don't know if 21 -. I don't know. To be honest with you. I 22 didn't ask her that much. She didn't say, oh, 23 shit, yeah, I didn't get any kind of reaction 24 from her. (Indiscernible *00:35:41) 25 MR. : All right. EFTA00113469 41 1 MR. Do you know if Jeffrey 2 changed his will leading up to August 9th? 3 MR. EPSTEIN: I was told he changed his 4 will. He did. Now, traditionally, my brother 5 and I were not in each other's wills. Because 6 I don't need his money, he don't need my money. 7 So, he changed the will, from my understanding. 8 Now, I'm not the executive of his estate. I 9 had nothing to do with his estate. The 10 executives don't even talk to me. 11 (Indiscernible *00:36:23) or anything. But 12 from what I understand, all of his assets were 13 put into a trust. Or they were supposed to be 14 put into a trust, after Jeffrey died. And they 15 paid out all the money to the victims, and his 16 (Indiscernible *00:36:35). And the trust 17 dictates what happens to his money. I'm not 18 the trustee and I'm not privy to his trust. 19 MR. : Who did you hear it from, 20 that he put it in the will? He changed the 21 will. 22 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, it was public 23 knowledge. Yeah. And his attorneys also told 24 me that he changed his will. But this is in 25 the papers. This was (Indiscernible 42 1 *00:36:SS). And he was trying to use that as, 2 well, he was contemplating suicide. I think 3 maybe he was contemplating being killed in 4 prison and wanted to make sure that his will 5 was up to date. I don't think it was fear -. 6 I don't think it was fear of suicide. I mean, 7 you know, I don't think he was planning 8 suicide. I think if anything, he was 9 (Indiscernible *00:37:14) about being in 10 prison. Indiscernible *00:37:16) stories. 11 MR. : And do you know anything 12 about him, like, being placed on suicide watch, 13 and taken off? Do you know anything -? 14 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. He was placed on 15 suicide watch, and he was taken off. Exactly 16 the reasons? I don't know. They never told 17 me. 18 MR. : Do you know if anyone 19 from the outside, such as his attorneys, or 20 anybody like that, called anyone to ask him to 21 be taken off of suicide watch? 22 MR. EPSTEIN: Only what was in the papers. 23 So -- 24 MR. Okay. 25 MR. EPSTEIN: -- so, I don't have any 43 1 first-hand of it. 2 MR. : And you've never gotten 3 to speak to his attorneys? They never 4 disclosed the information? 5 MR. EPSTEIN: Not very much. No. Hmm-mm. 6 MR. : Okay. So, just the 7 papers. Other than having that conversation 8 with (Indiscernible *00:37:53), have you spoken 9 with anyone on the outside? 10 MR. EPSTEIN: No. 11 MR. : Right? 12 MR. EPSTEIN: Oh, so, David Shone 13 (Phonetic Sp. *00:37:56), the attorney, who was 14 going to go ask me, because he also said that 15 (Indiscernible *00:38:01) suicide. Yeah. I 16 was surprised because he felt -. He said Jeff 17 felt positive about the defense they were going 18 to go with know, in the prosecution. 19 MR. : And David Shone met them on 20 Friday? 21 MR. EPSTEIN: Excuse me? 22 MR. : You mentioned a David Shone 23 met with them on Friday. 24 MR. EPSTEIN: No, no, no, no, no. David 25 Shone, had met with him in jail, I think, 44 1 before he died. Not that day. I think it was 2 before. 3 MR. : You mentioned something about 4 a non-prosecution from Florida. Can you 5 explain that? 6 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. In 2006, I think it 7 was, when he first got in trouble in Florida, 8 you know, when he got back whatever, he got his 9 sweetheart deal. Which I was told, he got a 10 sweetheart deal because the girls that were 11 claiming to be victims were actually - 12 determined to be very unreliable witnesses. 13 Because they found their Facebook pages with 14 drugs and sex. And one of the girls was a 15 prostitute with her mother, you know, all kinds 16 of -. 17 These are not clean-cut little Catholic 18 school girls. You know, so, he got - made the 19 deal back in 2006, and part of the deal was he 20 had to sign the prosecution agreement for him 21 and the other unnamed individuals. I don't 22 know. It's -. And that's what he was living 23 on ever since. You know, just, there's been 24 no, from what I understand, I haven't seen any 25 evidence that he was with underaged women past EFTA00113470 45 1 that point in time. And he got out of jail, 2 and did that, you know, 13 month sentence he 3 had and was in jail for (Indiscernible 4 *00:39:23). 5 He got a house. You know, he got that 6 work release -. (Indiscernible *00:39:29). He 7 got a good deal. After that, I mean, we used 8 to - there's a joke around with him You know, 9 and I told him, you know, I'm his brother and 10 said, set up a passport scanner in front of 11 your door, (Indiscernible *00:39:39). Tell 12 your girl that comes in, she has to to show 13 that she's at least 18. Yeah, you have -. You 14 know, we're joking around. So, and as far as I 15 know, there have been no claims of him being 16 with underaged women. And all the stuff that 17 he, well, I don't think it's the case, but yes. 18 MR. : You mentioned the non- 19 prosecution agreement, as the fact that he 20 believed he was getting out of prison. 21 MR. EPSTEIN: No, no. He got out of 22 prison. He served his time he was sentenced 23 to. But at that time - and this is public - he 24 had a non-prosecution agreement with the 25 federal government. You know, the same one, 46 1 that was the Southern District, or whatever, 2 what Florida park, or I don't know, the, like, 3 the lingo. I don't get in trouble, so I'm not 4 up on the (Indiscernible *00:40:21). You know, 5 and, you know, as far as I know, this one is 6 federal government. 7 MR. (Indiscernible 8 *00:40:24) 9 MR. EPSTEIN: And if you make a deal in a 10 non-prosecution agreement, with the federal 11 government, well, that's the federal 12 government. It's not like the New York people, 13 federal here have the right to break off the 14 agreement. 15 So, was it, why was he arrested? You know, 16 another theor about that -- 17 MR. : Mm-hmm. 18 MR. EPSTEIN: -- okay, is that in the 19 screen, before he was arrested, one of the 20 victims went to the FBI, and said that she was 21 in his house, on Seventy First Street, and he 22 had this extensive camera system, in all the 23 rooms, all the bathrooms, all this kind of 24 stuff. Now, the one thing about Jeffrey is 25 that Jeffrey was a bull shitter. He would say 47 1 things just for be provocative. 2 Now, he had a very extensive video room, 3 when we first walk into the house on the right. 4 Because I was there years ago. With lots of 5 monitors. But they were all on the outside of 6 the building, for security. And inside the 7 front door, and inside the backdoor. There 8 wasn't cameras throughout the house. And I've 9 spoken with people who knew the house, people 10 who worked at the house. And they, like I 11 said, that extensive video system, that house 12 didn't exist. 13 But the FBI got this information that it 14 did. And then, a few months later, he gets 15 arrested, and they break into his house with a 16 search warrant, and I would like to see that 17 search warrant. This is what -. Because in 18 the search warrant, you have to state what 19 you're looking for. Right? You can't use it 20 as a fishing expedition. So, what is it they 21 were looking for? Because they broke into his 22 house, and they cut the safe open. But you 23 heard that he had about 470,000 in cash, and 24 diamonds. 25 Well, he's a very wealthy man. He's 48 1 allowed to have cash and diamonds. You know, 2 and he had some expired, old passport for some 3 (Indiscernible *00:41:55). (Indiscernible 4 *00:41:57) long story for that. But what were 5 they looking for? Who was (Indiscernible 6 *00:42:00) to get into this house to look for - 7 ? Who were they looking for? Are they looking 8 for the tapes of somebody on the street? They 9 had some tapes. That did not exist. Which 10 didn't exist. 11 And then, he was arrested, and you know, 12 gets killed. And like I said, he set you up as 13 a crook. I said, he had enough dirt on both 14 candidates to have the election cancelled in 15 2016. This doesn't alleviate -. If you forget 16 everything else, everything I showed you here, 17 and everything you know now, would you just 18 say, yes, it was a suicide? I wouldn't. And 19 not because - like I said - not because I'm his 20 brother. It just doesn't add up as a suicide. 21 Like I said, and trust me, if he committed 22 suicide, my life would have been a lot easier 23 this time. 24 I've had death threats, I've been in touch 25 with the FBI and NYPD for the last two years. EFTA00113471 49 1 And I have hired armed guards for. When I met 2 with Steve Bannon, after I saw the tape that my 3 brother sent me after his death, I contacted 4 Steve Bannon, I wanted to find out what this 5 was about. You know? And I know that Bannon, 6 I actually had armed guards. I didn't, because 7 I didn't know who was (Indiscernible 8 *00:43:11). I knew him walking to a hotel, and 9 be taking out the garbage (Indiscernible 10 *00:43:13), like the show, you know? 11 And armed guards. And Bannon's told me 12 about the 16 hours of tape, and he told me that 13 the -. He said that the tape should protect 14 him, and that by attorney/client privilege, as 15 witnesse preparation. But Bannon is not an 16 attorney. 17 MR. : And which tapes are we 18 talking about right now? 19 MR. EPSTEIN: The 16 hours of video tape 20 interviews that (Indiscernible *00:43:33) with 21 my brother. 22 MR. : Off of what we've talked 23 about, at least thus far, who do you think we 24 should speak with, that would have the 25 firsthand knowledge, that would be willing to 50 1 speak with us? 2 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, I think you should 3 talk to the guards. The EMT uards. 4 and I think it's 5 (Phonetic Sp. *00:43:52). Or something 6 O'Shawnasee. Those are the two EMT guards. 7 MR. : Mm-hmm. 8 MR. EPSTEIN: Find out from them who was 9 directing the operations in the prison. Why 10 did they move the body out when they weren't 11 supposed to move the body out? Who was 12 directing them? Who was there? 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. EPSTEIN: And then, in the hospital, 15 when he was there, I mean, I don't know, do the 16 fire depairtniiiiiiis wear body cameras? 17 MR. : Mm-hmm. 18 MR. EPSTEIN: EMTs? I don't know. You 19 know, but in a - like I said - there was a 20 handheld camera in the hospital, when they took 21 him, there were four people there. Two EMTs 22 and two other people, and someone would have a 23 video camera of that. And why did they dress 24 him in a iiiiiiiiliown? 25 MR. : Okay. 51 1 MR. EPSTEIN: You know, why are they 2 trying to make him look -? Like, Bannon told 3 me there is a prison culture here. Nobody dies 4 in prison. You know, they find a dead body, 5 they ship them to the hospital, and it's 6 declared dead in the hospital. That's 7 traditional in the prison system. Because they 8 don't want to deal with the dead body in 9 prison. And that seems to be (Indiscernible 10 *00:44:52), as well. But what are they trying 11 to, you know, to take him out, trying to 12 intubate him. These guys are trained. Yeah, 13 now they know he's not coming back. 14 MR. : Yeah. 15 MR. EPSTEIN: So, why this charade? And 16 why are we in here, there was a camera guy 17 there. Right? Who took the photographs. You 18 got people questioning, how did he know to be 19 there? 20 MR. : Mm-hmm. 21 MR. EPSTEIN: Why was he there by the 22 prison early that morning, to take photographs 23 and (Indiscernible *00:45:16), no doubt. 24 MR. : Which camera guy are you 25 talking about? 52 1 MS. : The guy that had 2 (Indiscernible *00:45:19) poster. 3 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. I knew his name. 4 Farrington (Phonetic Sp. *00:45:25). I believe 5 it was William Farrington. 6 MR. : He was at the hospital, 7 or he was at the prison? 8 MR. EPSTEIN: At the prison. 9 MS. : At MCC. 10 MR. Okay. 11 MR. : When Mr. Epstein was being 12 rolled out? 13 MS. : Yup. 14 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. He's on the gurney, 15 and he's covered in a sheet. They have a neck 16 brace on him, and they -. He's intubated. 17 They have a thing down his throat, and that 18 squeezing one of those, the air balloons, to 19 try to get air into his lungs. Yeah. Which 20 you use on, like, drowning victims, and 21 (Indiscernible *00:45:51). 22 So, I was, like, why, you know, why this 23 charade? And also, from the time they got 24 there, they took him down, there's no pulse. 25 Obviously. He's not breathing. You know, the EFTA00113472 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 53 body can only last a few minutes under that condition. So, what -? They got up there. He was found dead, you know, they do whatever they do in there, they cut him open, they try to defibrillate him. Right? Because that's the thing on the other picture, the defibrillator angle. And there's the electric cord in the room because he slept with a CPAP machine. Which, I didn't know he used one. But turns out he did. And he was in the room with his electric cord. You know, and, oh, in the photographs, let me see if I can find this photo here. MR. : Why are you looking that up? I know, you might have answered this. Did you have any communications with him when he was in prison? MR. EPSTEIN: No. MR. : Did he email you, or call you MR. EPSTEIN: No. MR. : -- anything like that? MR. EPSTEIN: Nope. MR. : What about any other family members? 54 1 MR. As said, did he 2 contact anlucni -? 3 MR. IIIIII: Did he contact any of the 4 family members? 5 MR. EPSTEIN: No. And there's no one in 6 the famil 7 MR. . : So, you don't know 8 anybody, aside from his attorneys, 9 (Indiscernible *00:46:52) who spoke to 10 (Indiscernible *00:46:53) on his night, or 11 spoke to (Indiscernible *00:46:54)? 12 MR. EPSTEIN: No. No. 13 MR. : He spoke with you? 14 MR. EPSTEIN: I sent him a letter in 15 prison. I have no idea if he ever got it. 16 (Indiscernible *00:47:00). 17 MR. : In terms of siblings, you 18 were the only sibling? 19 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 20 MR. : The parents? 21 MR. EPSTEIN: Deceased. 22 MR. : Deceased. 23 MR. rkay. 24 MR. EPSTEIN: My father died in '91. 30 25 years ago. And my mother died in 2004. 55 1 MR. : 2004? 2 MR. EPSTEIN: 2004. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah, they were older. It 5 was right around when Jeff first got in trouble 6 in 2006. He called me, and asked me if I'm at 7 his house, which is, you know, like, after my 8 mother died, I moved back, (Indiscernible 9 *00:47:33), because most of our communications, 10 it seems Jeff was rather (Indiscernible 11 *00:47:36), health issues, and being close to 12 the family. Like, he called me to his house, 13 because he wanted to tell me himself that he 14 was getting in trouble. You know, for 15 (Indiscernible *00:47:47). And the first thing 16 I said to him, I said, well, (Indiscernible 17 *00:47:50) mom's dead. It's looking like 18 they're about to kill her. (Indiscernible 19 *00:47:53 some So. 20 MR. : How long did you take 21 care -? So, you said that you had ghosted a 22 large part of (Indiscernible *00:48:04) life. 23 (Indiscernible *00:48:06). And how much do you 24 (Indiscernible *00:48:11)? 25 MR. EPSTEIN: You can hold - whatever his 56 1 bail was. 2 MR. And (Indiscernible 3 *00:48:13)? 4 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, his bail, his bail 5 itself was 100, plus 100 million. Somewhere in 6 that. I don't know the exact number. No. But 7 whatever it_vaii_j_paid them. 8 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Yeah. Okay. 9 MR. EPSTEIN: I have his (Indiscernible 10 *00:48:22iiIIIIIIII 11 MR. : (Indiscernible 12 *00:48:23). 13 MR. EPSTEIN: Mm-hmm. 14 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:48:26) 15 the house in Florida? 16 MR. EPSTEIN: The house in Florida is a 17 small part. 18 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:48:30). 19 MR. EPSTEIN: Technically the first bail 20 he called me and asked me if I would 21 participate in his bail, because he's 22 explaining that it's a better show if other 23 people are willing to (Indiscernible 24 *00:48:39). 25 MR. Okay. EFTA00113473 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 57 MR. EPSTEIN: So, I said, sure, put in my house in Florida. MR. (Indiscernible *00:48:45)? MR. EPSTEIN: That's worth 4200,000. That's not (Indiscernible *00:48:48). And then, come the appeal. You know, (Indiscernible *00:48:54) days, but prior to his death. They called me and they explained that, you know, they're going to this appeal, and he was pretty much, you know, at the house, which you can find was valued at (Indiscernible *00:49:01) house. I think he was in jail for (Indiscernible *00:49:05), you know, a couple, close to 100 nights. They asked me if I would guarantee his (Indiscernible *00:49:10). I said yes. So, I don't remember the exact number, but he wasn't worried about it. Because like I said -- MR. : No, no, no. I'm just -- MR. EPSTEIN: -- I'm just going to show up. MR. -- for (Indiscernible *00:49:19), especially when we had heard that you guys are estranged, but if I can say my 58 1 guess would be that you actually weren't, and 2 you actually agreed to post the bail, and 3 (Indiscernible *00:49:28) how much money was 4 it? 5 MR. EPSTEIN: Up to, it was somewhere in 6 the range of 100 million. 7 MR. : Okay. You got that type 8 of money? 9 MR. EPSTEIN: (Indiscernible *00:49:40). 10 You'll see. Mm-hmm. 11 MR. : But you mentioned 12 another. There was one other person, I thought 13 you said, that was also involved? 14 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 15 That's (Indiscernible *00:49:50). 16 MR. : Just the two of you? 17 MR. EPSTEIN: As far as I know, yeah. 18 That's thiliiiiiipeople I've ever known. Yeah. 19 MS. : I don't know if that bail 20 application was final. It might be 21 (Indiscernible *00:49:58). 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. Give me 24 (Indiscernible *00:50:10) for this. 25 MR. : And it was Jeffrey's lawyers 59 1 that reached out to you about that? 2 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 3 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, the one lawyer Darian 4 Indyke, he works in prison (Indiscernible 5 *00:50:30). He (Indiscernible *00:50:31). 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. EPSTEIN: Actually, yeah, a long time 8 ago. Like, 30 years ago. He worked in a law 9 firm, and Jeffrey and I both used that law 10 firm. I used it for law stuff. (Indiscernible 11 *00:50:41). Always there. But I haven't seen 12 him in a very long time. Until this 13 (Indiscernible *00:50:48). So, he might be 14 personal. Yeah. Okay. In these pictures, 15 he's by the cell. You see this electric cord 16 here is, like, in the room access. He would 17 have to have the door, the door swung open, and 18 the electric cord was there. That was I think 19 his defibrillator or something. And the CPAP 20 machine. But you could see there is an 21 electric cord. In that picture of the electric 22 cord. (Indiscernible *00:52:22). What is 23 that? Yeah, and in the picture I'm looking 24 for, it shows that electric cord, really. It's 25 plugged into the extension on the other side of 60 1 the door. So, it was obviously moved. 2 MR. : (Indiscernible 3 *00:53:13). 4 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Let me go back. Let 5 me get rid of this and go back. It says 6 (Indiscernible *00:53:23). 7 MR. : Okay. Are these for 8 scenes for us, (Indiscernible *00:53:27)? 9 MR. EPSTEIN: No. This is my only copy of 10 these. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. Here. Oh. Oh, 13 fucking hell. All right. You see here, the 14 electric cord is on the outside of the room. 15 And the other picture, the door was opened, and 16 this knot and stuff was on the inside of the 17 door. So, somebody moved that for some reason. 18 Because he didn't (Indiscernible *00:53:54). 19 And it's just, like, a discrepancy 20 (Indiscernible *00:53:59). 21 MR. : I see. 22 MR. EPSTEIN: And supposedly, there was a 23 lot of activity after he was gone. At least 24 that you can see in the picture. 25 MR. So, it's always good for EFTA00113474 61 1 us to have (Indiscernible *00:54:10), along 2 with the photographs, and perhaps the 3 (Indiscernible *00:54:12). 4 MR. EPSTEIN: I can make copies and send 5 it to you. 6 MR. Oh my, that would be 7 great. 8 MR. EPSTEIN: No problem. 9 MR. (Indiscernible 10 *00:54:18). 11 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 12 MS. (Indiscernible *00:54:19). 13 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah, give me your cards, 14 and I'll -- 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. EPSTEIN: -- so you guys can -. 17 MR. : Okay. Well, if there is 18 anything (Indiscernible *00:54:26), if there's 19 something else that we're missing, 20 (Indiscernible *00:54:32). 21 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 22 MR. : Just let us know. 23 MR. When you first started 24 (Indiscernible *00:54:39), were you aware that 25 Mr. Epstein went through his life, he 62 1 (Indiscernible *00:54:43) with his life, you 2 didn't seem surprised. Were you surprised? 3 MR. EPSTEIN: I wasn't surprised. I'm 4 pretty level-headed. You know? So, I don't -. 5 So, these don't surprise me. I've seen a lot 6 of shit in my life. You know? I haven't been 7 in the military, but military people have told 8 me I should have been in the military. Because 9 I'm always the one with the cool head, you 10 know, when all shit breaks loose. So, I wasn't 11 surprised. It was a little bit shocking that 12 he was dead. But like I said, I assumed, okay, 13 you heard on CNN that he committed suicide. 14 So, you originally you don't have reason to 15 question. 16 You just assume that that's the case. I 17 mean, that and the reason that he committed 18 suicide. And I - again - knowing, you know, 19 that he was potentially facing the long term 20 prison sentence, he didn't have kids to worry 21 about. He didn't have to worry about me. Our 22 parents are dead. There's no other relative 23 that he was close to. In that way. So, I 24 assumed, okay. That's what he did. You know? 25 But as I finished my breakfast, you know, it's 63 1 -. But, you know, I didn't, and like I said, I 2 assumed if that was his choice, then I respect 3 that. 4 Because, look, if I was in his shoes, I 5 have kids, you know, like I said, if I didn't 6 have kids, and I was potentially facing what I 7 did, you know, we're not religious people, you 8 know, we were both raised atheists. So, you 9 know, we don't have that kind of fears or 10 anything. Yeah, I might choose to take myself 11 out. But I would certainly wait for the bail 12 hearing to pass. That's what (Indiscernible 13 *00:56:18). And Jeffrey wasn't a stupid man. 14 So, you know, I'm sure he would wait for that, 15 as well. Because it doesn't make sense to kill 16 himself two days before a bail hearing, where 17 your bail is going to be the highest bail ever 18 in the United States, with a guarantee. 19 MR. : I know you mentioned you 20 didn't communicate with him after his arrest, 21 his last arrest in July, but before that, did 22 he ever mention about possibly committing 23 suicide? Was he ever depressed? 24 MR. EPSTEIN: No. Never. Never. Never. 25 No. 64 1 MR. : Did he ever show any 2 tendencies towards wanting to take his life? 3 MR. EPSTEIN: Never. Never. No. That 4 wasn't him. He had no reason to. He had, 5 like, the -. He had a life that you and me, go 6 anywhere we want. He had more money than God. 7 He did what he wanted. You know, if he wanted 8 to do it with me, if he had yes people 9 surroundiiiiiii, who catered his every whim. 10 MR. : Right. 11 MR. EPSTEIN: Flying around on private 12 jets. Beautiful homes all over the place. 13 Lots of women. You know? He wasn't -. Side 14 story. My mother was once asked me, why 15 doesn't he want to settle down? And I said to 16 her, I said, he hasn't settled down because if 17 he found a quality woman to settle down with, 18 instead of these bimbos that he's hanging out 19 with, she would eventually say, you know, why 20 don't we do this instead of that. That was 21 what he wanted. I said, and that's why she 22 gets shown the door. Because he didn't want to 23 do anything that he didn't want to do. That 24 was -. And he was able to have his life that 25 way. There was no reason for him to kill EFTA00113475 65 1 himself or think about killing himself. 2 MR. : Now -- 3 MR. EPSTEIN: He was healthy. He wasn't 4 facing any medical issues, or whatever. You 5 know, anything drastic(Indiscernible 6 *00:57:44iiiiiiiiii. 7 MR. : -- being his brother, and 8 knowing him the way you do, do you think that 9 the bail, if he was actually going to be 10 released, would he have any fear of being out 11 in public, because people then now perceiving 12 him a certain way? 13 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, he had that whole 14 thing from 2006. He's been shunned by, you 15 know, society since that first thing in 2006. 16 You know, like, when he's in business, he used 17 to, you know, handle the Les Wexner's 18 money(Indiscernible *00:58:12). That's how he 19 made a lot of his money. You know what I'm 20 saying, with the (Indiscernible *00:58:15). 21 So, Wexlon (Phonetic Sp. *00:58:18) 22 distanced himself from that. Because, you 23 know, people would be seeing the old Jeffrey 24 Epstein, because of his initial thing in 2006. 25 In that period of time. So, yeah. So, he 66 1 already went through that shunning, you know, 2 and, you know, it is what it was. He was 3 trying to rehabilitate his reputation, at the 4 time. 5 That's why Bannon was helping him. 6 Because Bannon was going to come out with 7 another story. And there's another, there's 8 people from Australia - and you'll see soon in 9 the papers - that they're coming out with a 10 whole story about this case, with Ghislaine 11 Maxwell, and the brother, and these victims, 12 who they're claiming, we're not really victims. 13 You know? You know, that these are just, as my 14 mother used to say, good time Charlies. 15 Girls looking for a good time. You know, 16 if it was so victim-ish, you know, then how 17 come all these girls brought their friends to 18 participate in these parties? There was an 19 interview on TV, last year. It was set in 20 Britain. Some British woman who (Indiscernible 21 *00:59:11) and my brother, who had been to some 22 of the dinner parties, at my brother's house. 23 And so, you know, and she started saying, there 24 were two journalists, interviewing her. She 25 started saying how these girls were not 67 1 victims. You know, they were enjoying the high 2 life. 3 Flying around in private jets. Being in 4 these amazing homes. I mean, his house in New 5 York City is pretty amazing, you know? And 6 then, and when she started turning the tide on 7 these poor victims, the journalist shut it 8 down. Because at the time, nobody wants to 9 hear anything positive about Jeff. Nobody 10 wants to hear anything negative about his 11 victims. You know? You know, Jeff was just 12 looking fiiiiliood time, you know? 13 MR. : Do you know if he was aware 14 that you'll put it up, and agree to be the 15 guarantee, guarantor? 16 MR. EPSTEIN: Uh. 17 MR. : For the bail. 18 MR. EPSTEIN: I think his attorneys told 19 him that. Yeah. 20 MR. : Same thing with 21 . You think the attorneys screwed 22 (Indiscernible *01:00:03)? 23 MR. EPSTEIN: I would imagine so. Yeah. 24 MR. Okay. 25 MS. You can check the MCC 68 1 records that he was meeting with his attorneys 2 all day, and (Indiscernible *01:00:13) the 3 entire day. Every day. 4 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 5 MS. : Because all of the rest of 6 us had to wait, because you couldn't see 7 anybody else from the SHU. 8 MR. : Hmm. 9 MR. EPSTEIN: (Indiscernible *01:00:25). 10 Also, when a - a couple - the weeks before he 11 died, he had that incident with Tartaglione. 12 His cellmate at the time. 13 MR. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. EPSTEIN: There's conflicting stories, 15 about it, you know, David Shone said that - and 16 publicly - that Tartaglione attacked him, one 17 afternoon, and they're trying to say that was, 18 like, the suicide attempt. So, who knows what 19 took place. But if Tartaglione attacked him. 20 And then, Tartaglione was still on the tier. 21 (Indiscernible *01:00:55). 22 MR. : Now, do you know if 23 Jeffrey spoke at all with anyone -. If his 24 attorneys know anything about Epstein being 25 attacked by Tartaglione? EFTA00113476 69 1 MR. EPSTEIN: David Shone is the one that 2 would talk to me about that. 3 MR. : So, that's -. 4 MR. EPSTEIN: Like I said, his attorneys 5 don't give me very much information on that. I 6 was involved in the case. And that 7 (Indiscernible *01:01:16) in place, and you 8 don't see the name anywhere. Yes. 9 MR. : But that Jeffrey 10 specifically told him that, is what you're 11 saying, or he -- 12 MR. EPSTEIN: Yes. 13 MR. : -- just heard of that? 14 MR. EPSTEIN: No, no. He -. David Shone 15 met with Jeffrey in jail. And that's why David 16 Shone said that Jeffrey was upbeat about the 17 defense. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. EPSTEIN: You know, relying on another 20 prosecution. Oh, that's what got Bill Cosby 21 out, right? Another prosecution, a non- 22 disclosure agreement, yeah. Which I believe is 23 the defense that Ghislaine Maxwell is going to 24 use, but, you know, I'm not an attorney, and 25 (Indiscernible *01:01:44). 70 1 MR. : Right. 2 MR. EPSTEIN: Mm-hmm. 3 MS. Okay. M 4 MR. : Anything else that we 5 know about, or follow up with? 6 MR. EPSTEIN: Like I said, like, I would 7 like to talk to the, you know, who were the 8 unnamed guards, number one and number two? You 9 know, a list of people in the tier. 10 found him in the morning. So, he was in 11 there, assuming that Barr was right and nobody 12 went in and out. Like I said, if he was going 13 to be killed, nobody would go in and out to 14 kill him, right? All right. How you going to 15 do that? (Indiscernible *01:02:13) but if you 16 plant someone in there, you know, to kill him. 17 You know, that's how you commit suicide. 18 That's a lot of things, a suicide. 19 MR. : Prior to getting 20 murdered? 21 MR. EPSTEIN: No. 22 murdered. 23 MR. 24 *01:02:28). 25 MR. EPSTEIN: He wasn't. He was : (Indiscernible But to do murder and make it 71 1 look like a suicide. That's the (Indiscernible 2 *01:02:31iiIIIIIIII 3 MR. : Oh. I got it. I 4 understand what you're saying. All right. So, 5 yeah, from you, or anything that we've 6 discussed, (Indiscernible *01:02:39), if you 7 want us to attach that video -- 8 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 9 MR. : -- as well as the 10 photographs, and the recording -- 11 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 12 MR. : -- you can just send it 13 to us through your attorney. 14 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 15 MR. : And I'm grateful 16 (Indiscernible *01:02:47) that we can have 17 other stuff to follow up on. 18 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 19 MR. : (Indiscernible 20 *01:02:S0). 21 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. So, the guards. Who 22 the guards were -. Like I said, I wouldn't 23 mind talking to , and finding out 24 what position was Jeffrey in when he first saw 25 him. When he first found him. That's very 72 1 crucial. What position Jeffrey was in when 2 found him. 3 MR. : Mm-hmm. 4 MR. EPSTEIN: The video tape in the 5 hospital. You know, with the (Indiscernible 6 *01:03:15), the FDNY guys, that we both talk, I 7 tried to godownto the station -- 8 MR. IIIIIIIIII: Uh-huh. 9 MR. EPSTEIN: -- or the SHU, yeah, 10 (Indiscernible *01:03:25) around, talk to them. 11 And I'm Indiscernible *01:03:24). 12 MR. : Who won't talk to you? 13 MR. EPSTEIN: I was trying to get the fire 14 departmeniiiiiiiii, 15 MR. : Oh, okay. 16 MR. EPSTEIN: -- to try to get them to 17 talk to me, but they won't talk. I'm the next 18 of kin, I'm entitled to all this information. 19 MR. Sure. 20 MR. EPSTEIN: And they ain't got shit. 21 You know, other than this paperwork. 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MR. EPSTEIN: Also, what happened with the 24 test, and the DNA, and his nails. Was that 25 test ever done? What were the results of that EFTA00113477 73 1 test? I mean, if it was a real artist, then 2 you may not find anything. Was the test done? 3 And what led the Chief Medical Examiner declare 4 it was a suicide just a few days after it was 5 pending. Pending forever investigation. 6 MS. : There was never an 7 investigation. 8 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. What investigation 9 took place? There was no indication that any 10 investigation took place. Which, like, other 11 than Barr saying, well, he sort of 12 (Indiscernible *01:04:06) nobody went in and 13 out. That convinced him it was a suicide. 14 MS. : That came later. 15 MR. EPSTEIN: What? 16 MS. : That came later. 17 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. It came later. That 18 came later. 19 MR. : Are you aware of when 20 they actuiiiiiiiought they deemed it a suicide? 21 MS. : It was the Friday. The 22 followingl Frida iiiiiiii, 23 MR. : So, that Friday. So, he 24 was found on Saturday, the following? That 25 Friday? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. EPSTEIN: MS. MR. EPSTEIN: days. MR. : Was that when he -- MS. : But we had heard from the media that they were changing it. That's why we called into the Medical Examiner's Office, like, what the hell is going on? What are you talking about? Where are you getting this from? It made no sense. Because there hadn't been a full investigation. MR. EPSTEIN: The city pathologist and Dr. Barton, the did the autopsy. MS. : They were present. Yes. MR. EPSTEIN: They were present. They did the autopsy. They said, this looks more like a murder than a suicide. And then, the Chief Medical Examiner declares it's a suicide from before. What is she basing that on? MR. : When they do the autopsy, is it recorded? MS. : Yes. MR. EPSTEIN: It's what? MR. : Is it video recorder? 74 It was, like, five days. Yeah. It was something, like, five 75 1 MS. It's audio recorded. 2 MR. : Audio recorded. And there -- 3 MR. EPSTEIN: And the photographs. 4 MR. : Dr. Barton (Indiscernible 5 *01:05:06) recording? 6 MS. : We don't have the recording. 7 MR. But if he was there? He 8 would be heard in(Indiscernible *01:05:12) the 9 recording? 10 MS. : He was there. 11 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Because he spoke it. 12 MS. : Of course. 13 MR. EPSTEIN: He said they did whatever he 14 asked them to do, certain things. He's -- 15 MS. : (Indiscernible *01:05:18) 16 MR. EPSTEIN: -- so, he wouldn't have to 17 do a second autopsy. It would be closer. If 18 he's standing there, they - (Indiscernible 19 *01:05:23) asked him whatever he wanted. You 20 know? Yeah. 21 MS. : They -. Sorry. 22 (Indiscernible *01:05:34). Yeah. They changed 23 it. We don't understand why. 24 MR. : And Barton. Did Barton agree 25 to the - it be changed? 76 1 MR. EPSTEIN: No. 2 MS. No. But they didn't ask 3 him. 4 MR. EPSTEIN: No. No. He wasn't 5 consulted. 6 MS. He was surprised. 7 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Well, you can talk to 8 Barton, if he's around. Go talk to him. 9 MR. : (Indiscernible *01:05:56) 10 for contact information you have? Is there any 11 contact information you would like to provide? 12 MR. EPSTEIN: For Barton? 13 MR. For any of the people 14 that you -. 15 MR. : We have David Shone. 16 Was Shone -. 17 MR. Or you can provide it 18 through your attorney. 19 MS. : (Indiscernible *01:06:09). 20 Why don't you just send it all to me? And I'll 21 just forward it to them. 22 MR. : Anyone you think that -- 23 MR. : Anyone that we should be 24 - you think we should speak to, and the contact 25 information that you have. I'm not talking EFTA00113478 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 77 about, like, the guards or things like that. I mean -- MS. Well, we don't have that. MR. : -- right. And I mean, we have all of that stuff. But as far as outside of the government. MR. EPSTEIN: Oh, well, well, I'll give you David Shone's number. I have it right here. It's MR. : What's the name? MR. EPSTEIN: Barton's number, his mobile is . Great guy, by the way, talking to. He really is super (Indiscernible *01:06:53. MR. : What about Mitchell? MR. EPSTEIN: (917) 362-8787. Because I knew from lon a o. And I haven't seen or spoken to probably in a couple of decades. Until this came about. That's when we reconnected. When I found out that he also put money, you know, the bail u for Jeffrey, we reconnected. MR. : Anything else? MR. EPSTEIN: Back in the 90s, and early 78 1 2000s, Jeffrey and I spent a lot of time 2 together. We were much closer to him. But 3 then, (Indiscernible *01:07:36), you know, just 4 got (Indiscernible *01:07:39). S MR. : Is there any 6 communications via email that would have been - 7 that you had with Jeffrey that would help us at 8 all? 9 MR. EPSTEIN: 10 and forth between 11 the video 12 MS. IIIIIII: Uh-huh. 13 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. That was forwarded 14 me from Bannon. Yeah. There's nothing else, 15 really. Like I said, most of the 16 communications with us was, you know, telling 17 me funny things, or I just keep him 18 (Indiscernible *01:08:08) with every cousins, 19 and things like that. So. 20 MR. : Maybe you've talked 21 amongst your attorney, if there is any 22 communications that you guys have, that might 23 be helpful for us? 24 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Of course. Yeah. 25 Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. Well, I might have the back him and I, with the, about to 79 1 MR. : Do you know of anyone else 2 that communicated with Jeffrey, while he was in 3 prison, other than his attorneys? 4 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, just Karyna. 5 MS. : I don't think - I mean, he 6 doesn't know his social circles. 7 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 8 MS. : So, he doesn't know his 9 friends, or who he was in business with, or 10 anything along that line. And he's been shut 11 down. I've tried to reach out to people in the 12 estate, he wanted to have wrongful death suit 13 for his brother, but the estate has that right, 14 he doesn't have that right, and they shouldn't 15 reach out to him. 16 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. And I'm not happy 17 that the estate wouldn't give me that right to 18 file a wrongful death suit, because even if I 19 did it that way, the money -. Whatever money 20 is going to bring me. Look, it's a slam dunk 21 case for iiiiiiiiiieath. Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : Who was entitled to that 23 money? Was that the estate? 24 MR. EPSTEIN: It belonged to his estate. 25 MR. And who was -? 80 1 MR. EPSTEIN: The trustee. The 2 executives. 3 MR. : Who are they? 4 MR. EPSTEIN: Darian Indyke, and Richard 5 Connor (Phonetic Sp. *01:09:07). 6 MR. : Wait. What were the names? 7 MR. EPSTEIN: Darian Indyke. 8 MR. : Can you spell the last name 9 for me? 10 MR. EPSTEIN: I-N-D-I-K-E. 11 MR. : And who was the other person? 12 MR. EPSTEIN: It was Richard Connor. 13 Right? It's Richard? 14 MS. : I'm not sure that -. I 15 think there is another executive, as well. 16 MR. EPSTEIN: There was -- 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. EPSTEIN: -- there was a third 19 an alternate. 20 MS. 21 MR. EPSTEIN: 22 MS. 23 *01:09:27). 24 MR. EPSTEIN: -- doesn't want to be part 2S of it. He didn't even know who (Indiscernible one as Right. But I think -. Who was declined, that he -- That's (Indiscernible EFTA00113479 81 1 *01:09:30). 2 MR. . And who are these people? 3 MS. The estate executives. 4 MR. EPSTEIN: Well, Gary is a long-term -- 5 MS. : An attorney? 6 MR. EPSTEIN: -- was my brother's private 7 attorney. He worked for Jeff for a long time. 8 And she's worked with him, (Indiscernible 9 *01:09:41). Richard Connor, I think, was -. I 10 don't think he's an attorney. I think he's, 11 like, an account or something. He also paid 12 (Indiscernible *01:09:46). 13 MR. : And these people are 14 entitled to all -? 15 MR. EPSTEIN: They're in control of the 16 estate. 17 MS. It's whatever the trustees, 18 we don't know. 19 MR. Okay. 20 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. 21 MS. : I mean -- 22 MR. EPSTEIN: I mean, I believe that the 23 trustees -- 24 MS. : I just have no idea. 25 MR. EPSTEIN: -- also, when he, you know, 82 1 money, on this day, gets transferred off the 2 trust, and then the trust got - you know, it 3 says what's to be done with it. And those 4 guys, I believe, are under the trustees, as 5 well. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. EPSTEIN: Yeah. Now, I don't know. 8 Like I said, the wrongful death case, the 9 wrongful death suit, is that a slam dunk? And 10 I just want to point out, if it was successful, 11 there could have been more money in the pot for 12 the victims, or for whatever, you know, if 13 they're getting his money. But the executives 14 chose not to do it. And how did -. I question 15 that. And I question because there's a deal 16 coming in, because both Indyke and Connor are 17 being looked at and investigated. 18 So, they're rolling up all their sleeves. 19 And from what I heard, they've also, they're 20 hired criminal defense attorneys, for this 21 case. 22 MS. : Yeah. 23 MR. EPSTEIN: So, there's some deal coming 24 in, it would going for wrongful death. If 25 something (Indiscernible *01:10:56). 83 1 MR. Okay. Well, if there is 2 anything else after-- 3 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 4 MR. : -- you could always 5 contact us either by phone or whatever. 6 MR. EPSTEIN: Okay. 7 MR. : And we will talk some 8 more about that. Otherwise, we'll look forward 9 to that other email. 10 MR. EPSTEIN: You have cards? Can I have 11 your cards? 12 MR. I don't think I actually 13 have a card. 14 MR. EPSTEIN: 15 MR. 16 MR. EPSTEIN: 17 MS. 18 MR. 19 attorney. 20 MS. 21 MR. EPSTEIN: 22 MR. 23 *01:11:23 24 MS. 25 MR. Well, if not, I can -. Yeah. Give it to me -- I can send to you. Well -- -- well, we send it to your -- yeah, go through me. Okay. Okay. (Indiscernible Okay. : Well, thank you for taking 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 84 the time to talk to us. MR. EPSTEIN: Well, pleasure might be the wrong word. MR. : It's 11:40 a.m. on September 22, 2021. And we are endin the interview. This is Special Agent EFTA00113480 83 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of MARK EPSTEIN Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber EFTA00113481