EFTA00117173.pdf

1 2 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL MARCH 16, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE 3 1 : This is Special Agent 2 . Today is March 16th, and the time is 3 9:55 a.m. The recorder is now on. My name is 4 I am a Special Agent with the 5 U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General, New York Field Office, and 7 these are m credentials. 8 : Thank you, sir. 9 : This interview with the 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, Lieutenant 11 , is being conducted as part of 12 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 13 of the Inspector General investigation. 14 Today's date is March 16th, 2022. The 15 time is 9:56 a.m. This interview is being 16 conducted at the Federal Bureau of Prisons 17 Metropolitan Detention Center, Brooklyn, New 18 York, warden's conference room. 19 Also present are DOJ OIG Assistant Special 20 A ent-in-Char e„ Lieutenant 21 . This interview will be 22 recorded by me, Special Agent 23 Could everyone please themselves for the 24 record, and spell your last name? To start, 25 again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 Assistant Special Agent- in-Charge with the DOJ/OIG and these are my credentials. : Yes, sir. : Please identify ourself. : Lieutenant Last name With the Federal Bureau of Prisons. : This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into events surrounding the death of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? Yes. : Please review DOJ/OIG form III-226/2. The form states, United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. "You are being asked to provide information as part of an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector EFTA00117173 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 s General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statement you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceeding, or both." The waiver states, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above, and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me." Please review the form and if you understand and agree, please sign Mill where it says Employee Signature. : Okay. : And print your name right below that. : Below that. Okay. : I'm going to sign on the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 6 signature of the Office of Inspector General. : Okay. And this is , and I will sign as the witness and fill out the rest of the form. What is the time, ? : It is 9:59 a.m. • 9:59 a.m., and the place is the MDC Brooklyn. : Thank you. Before starting the interview, I would like to place you under oath. Lieutenant , can you please raise your ri ht hand? Sure. : Do you swear to the tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? : Yes, sir. : Thank you. hand down. don't understand to re eat it or You can put your Okay. Please let me know if you any questions, and I will try try to rephrase it for you. Okay. Thank you for taking the time 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 to meet with us today. You previously told us - we'll jump right into it - you met with us in the past. : Yes. : And you previously told us that you were off on August 9th, 2019. That was a Frida . Do you recall? : On August 9th, 2019? I think I was off on the Friday. I think my last day of workin was August 8th, I think it was. : August 8th. And do you recall mentioning to us about an issue with the camera Yes. -- system? Yes. : And you had addressed that situation with the communications technician Hughwon : Yes. : And you remember mentioned, I think the conversation was between - you want to tell us a little bit about it again? Your recollection of it. : Sure. I was - after I was 8 1 reviewing the camera, I was looking for an 2 inmate that may have possibly departed the 3 building. So, I was, I went to the camera to 4 review the, to see if I can backtrack exactly 5 when he left the building. 6 I was present at the SIS office, with the 7 Associate Warden from MCC New York at the time, 8 which is AW IIII, we both were looking at the 9 camera, and at that moment, I noticed I 10 couldn't rewind on the cameras. 11 So, I couldn't get any playback. At that 12 moment, we stopped, you know, like, searching 13 for the inmate because we couldn't go back any 14 further than the time we were at. And at that 15 time, I notified communications tech 16 I called him over the radio and let him 17 know, hey, I'm trying to rewind back the 18 cameras, and the cameras won't rewind. And he 19 said he will come and take a look at the system 20 and see what was going on. 21 And which he did. He did come down and he 22 looked at the system, and he said he has to do 23 overtime to fix the s stem. At that moment, I 24 notified Captain . I apologized 25 that the cameras was down, and I also provided EFTA00117174 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9 him with a memorandum, letting him know that cameras the camera s stem was down. : Okay. And we were able to -- Before we get into that, though -- Okay. I'm sorry. -- as far as the - so, there was a discrepancy with what you said and what AW . said. Did you just rewind one - and that's not a big discrepancy - just, did you rewind one video at that time, the one you were trying to look at, or did you rewind multiiiiiiiiiiitermine that the -? : No. I went back on quite a few. present? And was that with AW : I can't remember if she stayed -- r Okay. - while I was going back at the cameras, to be honest with you. Because she was saying -- : But I -. -- she thought it was 11 1 , SIS Lieutenant to , Captain. 2 : Mm-hmm. 3 : Subject is, "NiceVision 4 (Phonetic Sp. *00:07:26) camera system." "On 5 August 8th, 2019, at approximately 3:45 p.m., 6 while reviewing the Nice camera system, I 7 attempted to recover video footage from the 8 unit 5-South housing unit." 9 : Yes. 10 : "At this time, I was unable 11 to recover any previous recordings from the 12 camera. This prompting me to review all of the 13 cameras. None of the cameras on the system 14 were able to record. 15 Therefore, I called communication 16 technician H. , via radio. At 17 approximately 4:00 p.m., responding to 18 the third floor phone monitoring room to check 19 the cameras, and notified me that the cameras 20 were not recording, and there was no way to 21 retrieve any video. stated he fixed the 22 camera system on Friday, August 9th, 2019, when 23 he arrived to work." 24 : Mm-hmm. 25 : Do you recall writing this 10 1 just one while she was there, so -- 3 2 IIIIIIIIIIiiiiight. : I can't remember if she : -- if it's -. 4 5 stayed, but I did go back on several cameras on 6 the housing units and different areas, to see 7 can I -- 8 Okay. 9 M- rewind. 10 : So, you did, but she : 11 possibl didn't. 12 : Yes. Yes. 13 Okay. Great. 14 : So, we were able to identify, 15 with your assistance, through this document was 16 provided to AW IIII, and AW I. provided this 17 to the MCC attorneys, who in turn provided it 18 to the OIG. 19 : Okay. 20 : And this is the memo that was 21 written by you. I'm going to read it out for 22 the record. Up top it says, the United States 23 Government Memorandum. Federal Bureau of 24 Prisons. MCC New York. 150 Park Road New 25 York. The date is August 10th, 2019, from T. 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 memo? : Yes. : Is this the memo? Okay. Yes. : lust to clarify, the date S that ou wrote the memo will be on August 10th? Yes. : This would be the Saturday folloiiiiiiiiii : Yes, sir. It would be the SaturiiiIIIIIII And August 9th, you were off? : Yes. I'm almost sure I wasn't there the Friday. I'm almost sure that I wasn't in the building. : That last sentence, that's the first, just to clarify, the August 10th. So, previously, and I think again, you just, I think you assumed you wrote it on August 8th, but it looks like you actuall wrote it on the 10th. : I did assume that I wrote it on the 8th. All right. EFTA00117175 13 14 1 M. did. 2 : So, looking at that now, 3 do you know that it was now written on the 4 10th, on the Saturday, as opposed to on that 5 Thursda , when you first found out? 6 : Yes. 7 : Okay. So, that's not, 8 like, a misunderstanding? That's, now looking 9 at it, you're, like, oh, that's correct, you 10 actually wrote it on -. So, does that mean 11 that you didn't tell Captain until the 12 10th, as well? 13 : No. I definitely told him 14 when the cameras was found, because he wouldn't 15 have had an foots e, have anything occur. 16 : Because when we spoke 17 with Captain , he didn't think he would - 18 or he said he wasn't told until that Saturday. 19 He says he was never informed on that Thursday 20 or Friday. 21 So, we were just - now seeing that memo - 22 we were trying to think, oh, maybe you were 23 just mistaken because you were very confident, 24 no, I told the Captain, and I provided him the 25 memo. So, seeing that, does that maybe make 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you think -? : No. I'm definitely positive that I told him when the cameras was down because we always do. Okay. : Because if something happened, we need to get footage at that moment. Uh-huh. And I do recall him asking me did I notify that the cameras was down, and I told him I did -- r Okay. - because was going to sta to do overtime to fix them. : And you're positive that that was on the 8th? 1 : I'm positive -- : Sorry, go ahead. -- it was on the 8th. : Sorry. Go ahead. : Okay. And the last thing says, " stated he fixed the camera system on Friday, August 9th, when he arrived to work." Just to clarify, does that mean that he 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 15 - sorry, let me pause for a second. UNKNOWN FEMALE: I'm sorry. Hi. Hi. How are you? We're on a recording, just so ou know. : So -. UNKNOWN FEMALE: Oh, I'm sorry. r Okay. ust to clarify, the last statement -- Yes. -- does that mean that he fixed, stated, now, did tell you that he fixed the camera on August 9th? Or does it mean that he told you that he will come in on August 9th and fix the camera? : No. On the 8th, he told me he was Staying that evening to fix the cameras. When seen me on the 10th, when I entered the Special Housing Unit, he was in there. I don't know if he was working, if he was doing overtime. But as soon as I entered the Special Housing Unit, immediately approached me. Immediately approached me, and I said, 16 1 well, what happened with the camera system? 2 Because we had this conversation that you will 3 fix it on the 8th. And he said I fixed it 4 yesterday. And then, I'm here today, which is 5 the 10th to finish up. 6 So, you mean, he started 7 fixiniiiiiiiiiirday? 8 : So, I'm assuming that, I 9 don't know if he started, or if he fixed it, 10 but I could only go by what he told me. I 11 fixed the camera system, and I'm here to finish 12 it up. 13 : Because when you - when 14 we spoke to you last, you had mentioned that 15 you approached him and said, you told me you 16 were going to fix this, and you said, and then 17 he told you at that time, yeah, I came in here 18 today -- 19 iiiight. 20 : -- to do it. 21 : Right. So, I was under the 22 assumption he started on the 9th, and he still 23 had - whatever he had left to do on the 10th, 24 and I assume that that's what he was there to 25 do. EFTA00117176 17 1 Okay. So, not that he 2 fixed it on the 9th, but he started to fix it 3 on the 9th? 4 : Right. I feel like he 5 started to fix it on the 9th, and he was there 6 to finish up, because then he was actually on 7 overtime in an attempt to, if I'm correct. 8 Okay. 9 ro, I assumed that he started 10 fixing it, and he was there to attempt to 11 finish it u . 12 : So, should that last 13 sentence then read, he began fixing it on the 14 9th? Instead of he fixed it on the 9th? 15 : It should, but again, I can't 16 recall. I don't want to say, you know, because 17 he told me he fixed the cameras. So, fixing to 18 me, I don't know the camera system. So -- 19 : So, on the 9th, when they 20 knew that they couldn't actually get video, he 21 actuaiiiiiiiiiII did fix it yesterday? 22 : No. On the 9th. I mean, 23 sorry on the 10th. 24 That's what I mean, on 25 the 10th. 18 1 : When we arrived, and we 2 realized that there was no video over the 9th. 3 That's when he stated, I did overtime, I fixed 4 it yesterday. And then, we would, me and him 5 were having a conversation that it's no video. 6 You can't go back. And his thing was, I'm here 7 to finish u' what I started yesterday. 8 Huh. 9 : So, I don't -- 10 : Was it -- 11 -- know what he fixed, 12 because fixing to - I'm sorry - fixing can be 13 he bought all of the cameras back up, so the 14 cameras are online, but I don't know if they 15 were online to record, if that makes any sense. 16 : And so, it's hard for us 17 to understand because if he's saying he fixed 18 it yesterday, and he's here to finish it today, 19 that sounds like it means he started fixing it 20 yesterda and he's -- 21 : Right. 22 • -- but what his words 23 were, he fixed it yesterday? 24 : His words was, I fixed it 25 yesterday, and I'm here to finish up today. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 19 Now, I don't know what the finish up part for today was, to be honest with you. I'm assuming the finishing up part was the to get them to record, because they were blacked out. r Okay. ost of the cameras were blacked out. Oh, so, they were actuaiiiiiiiiiid out? So -- : It was some cameras that were blacked out where it was no screen at all. E : Okay. : This was on August 8th? On August 8th. : Okay. So, he actually got the cameras to not be blacked out anymore, so meaning, he fixed the cameras that were blacked out, and on the 10th, he was going to get them to start recording? E M That's what I assume. : Okay. : It's just an assumption because when I got there the 10th, I didn't physically go to see if the black out cameras was back online. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 20 All right. So, when you say fixed in that, you're talking about, he got the cameras back up and running, but the recording part was going to be fixed on the 10th? Mi. That's my assumption. : Okay. : It's just an assumption. Because I really can't say what he did. I can only sa Well, it -- -- what he said. • -- if he said to you, on the 10th, I fixed them yesterday, did you ask him then, well, then, why can't we get the recordin s? I didn't. . No? I didn't. Okay. Hmm-mm. But now, your assumption is, he fixed the cameras to get them back up and running, and on the 10th, he was going to fix the recording part. EFTA00117177 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 : He was there to finish whatever that fixing was, and I'm assuming that it was the recording part because they still weren't recordin on the 10th. : Okay. But that was an assumiiiiiiiliour end? : That was just an assumption on my end. : And you didn't ask him anythiiiiiiiiiir on that? : I didn't ask him anything else. F : Okay. Sorry. : No, I didn't. : Go ahead. Do you recall having a conversation with him on the 10th about him not havino access to the communication room? : No. : On the 9th. Him not being able to access the room because there was no one tiiiiiiiiiien the door for him? : No. No. And he would be able to have access to the room because all of the keys are located in the control center. 22 1 : But the center control would 2 be loiiiiiiiiiiight? 3 : The control center, they 4 would - my keys would have been locked behind, 5 like, an emergency glass. But he's accessed my 6 keys in the ast to fix the cameras. 7 : How would he access them? 8 : He would get permission from 9 the captain to get my keys because that's who 10 has to authorize the keys. 11 : And he would go to the 12 captain, and the captain would authorize it, 13 and he could 'list take the keys? 14 : I would hope so -- 15 : Mm-hmm. 16 -- that he would get 17 authorization, but he's been there late nights 18 when there has been nobody in SIS, fixing the 19 cameras. 20 : And you recall specific 21 situations where the captain has authorized him 22 to take 'our keys and go into the room? 23 : I can't say I was present 24 when he authorized him to take the keys. I'm 25 not going to say that I was present. But -- 23 1 : But you recall -- 2 : I recall times when I told 3 the captain, hey, is going to stay late 4 because the camera system is not working, and 5 the captain say, okay, I'll be here. And he 6 would be and have access to that room. 7 : Does that mean was 8 given the keys, or the captain would go in and 9 open the door for him? 10 : That, I'm not sure. 11 : Okay. 12 : That, I'm not sure. 13 : So, do you remember 14 around, approximately, what time it was on 15 August 8th that you learned that the cameras 16 were down? 17 : It was late in the afternoon. 18 : And you're positive it 19 was late in the afternoon? 20 : It was in the afternoon. 21 : And when you were 22 determining that these cameras were down, you 23 actually saw that they were -- because this is 24 the first we're hearing that there were blacked 25 out cameras, all along we've been told they 24 1 were up, they just weren't recording, so there 2 was no wa to tell that they were -- 3 : No. You -- 4 . -- down. 5 -- you had some cameras that 6 were offline completely, with an X, I don't 7 know if ou've ever seen a camera system. 8 : So, was it still review, 9 videoing? Like, could you see it, but there 10 was this X on it, or was it just all black? 11 : No. You couldn't see. 12 : Okay. 13 : You couldn't see. 14 : And you're positive -- 15 : So, seeing -. 16 : -- about that? 17 : I'm positive. 18 : So -. 19 : Okay. And then, so, 20 you're saying, and you're positive that it 21 happened late in the afternoon on August 8th? 22 : Yes. 23 : Because Captain 24 left early that day for a doctor's appointment 25 on the 8th. So, that goes back to, are you EFTA00117178 25 26 1 sure you told him on the 8th? Because he 2 wasn't there. 3 : No. I spoke to Captain 4 about the cameras because he asked me, 5 was I going to fix the cameras? I know it 6 definitely was after the lunch, the lunch 7 break. So, between - it was afternoon time - 8 betwefL1L(22,_1222. 9 All right. So, when you 10 say late afternoon, before, you're now thinking 11 it yeas actuall early afternoon? 12 : Well, that's late afternoon 13 for me when I et it -- 14 All right. 15 -- because I get in 5:00 in 16 the morn in So -- 17 Okay. 18 -- I'm sorry. But it 19 definitely was somewhere after the inmates' 20 lunch. Between 12:00, 12:00 noon, I want to 21 say between 12:00 and 2:00. In that timeframe. 22 Okay. 23 r can't tell you exactly the : 24 time. But it definitely was before I went 25 home. 1 Okay. So, you're 2 positive they were blacked out, you're positive 3 you told Captain 4 : Yes. 5 Sorry. Go ahead, 6 : How many screens would you 7 think were blacked out? 8 : I don't even want to guess 9 because it was a lot of cameras up there, but 10 it was a good many. I know the housing units 11 were recording. The blacked-out cameras, it 12 was a lot of the corridors where we buzzed the 13 doors, and we opened, a lot of the corridors 14 were out. I do remember that. I do remember 15 the units were up. The housing units were up. 16 : So, let's talk about that for 17 a second. I know it's important for the, how 18 important is it for the cameras to be working? 19 : Very. 20 : Now, we have two situations. 21 One is, the camera feed not working, which 22 would mean being able to view the cameras live. 23 And second is the actual recordings not 24 workiiii 25 : Okay. 27 1 : So, how important is it for 2 the camera feed to be working at all times? 3 : Very. 4 : Compared - I know, let's 5 talk, separate that out from the actual 6 recordings working. How often do people go in 7 and view the live feeds? 8 : It's my - this is just, 9 again, I would say it should have been daily 10 because since I've been at MCC New York, normal 11 practice was that the communication shop came 12 up every morning, went into that area where, I 13 don't know, like, the motherboard was at. 14 And they checked it. So, that's what I've 15 always was used to happening. And they will 16 say, hey, you got some cameras down, or A, B, 17 C, and D, because SIS uses the cameras a lot. 18 You know? 19 We going back for video. We looking for 20 fights. Like, you know, they're up on our 21 desks sometimes who we're just seeing who's 22 doing what. So, I would say daily that they 23 definiiiiiiiiiild be monitored. 24 : Okay. And if the camera 25 feeds were not working, I understand the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 28 recorder is not, that the recording is not there. And we might have spoken about this in the past, but should have gone home for the day, or should the recordings, the feeds been fixed immediately? : I kind of don't know the process of fixing the feeds because I know it was times he said he had to order new cameras. So, I don't know if they were fixable where he had to order new cameras, and had to wait for cameras to come in. So, I don't even, I don't even know, honestly, if he would have been able to fix those cameras that was out, or if he needed to order new cameras to fix those cameras that was out. : You mentioned there were quite a few feeds out, right? Yes. : Do you think it was possible that he came in, he told you on the 10th that he came in on the 9th and he fixed them. Is it possible that he replaced all those cameras by the 9th? : Oh, I don't know. EFTA00117179 29 30 1 : Okay. Okay. 2 : I don't know. 3 : Any other follow up on that? 4 : No. I mean, I don't 5 think he was replacing cameras. Are you 6 talking about, like, hard drives that go with 7 the cameras? 8 : I think when she said about 9 the live feed -- 10 : Yeah, yeah. 11 she meant in order to see 12 the live feed, he would have to replace some of 13 the cameras. 14 : So, you think he actually 15 replaced the cameras -- 16 : I don't know -- 17 : -- or something? 18 : -- if he would have to 19 replace them, but I know it was instances that 20 he would say, oh, I have to order new cameras. 21 So, I assume that those cameras are broke, and 22 they need to be re laced. 23 : Okay. Okay. So, on the 24 8th, though, you knew that there was actually 25 two problems. One, that they were blacked out; 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and two that they weren't recording. 10Yes. : And the ones that weren't recording, were they the same ones that were blacked out? : Nothing was recording. At all. : Nothing. You couldn't find anything ecording? : No. I couldn't. : Because our understanding was half of the cameras were recording and half of them weren't. Just the ones you checked weren't recording. : lust the ones I checked. And normally, that would be the housing areas will be where I'll target because that's where the inmates at and that's where Ei -- r Okay. -- unfortunately, the incidents usuall are. : And what - you said prior - I just want to make sure we're clear - with the ones that were blacked out were not the housing units? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 31 : No. I don't recall any housin units bein blocked out. : But the housing units were the ones that weren't recording? : Right. I know they weren't recordin . : So, there was just a problem with basically all of the cameras that you knew of. Yes. provide that Captain : It seemed that way to me now. And did you know did you information to either AW S or : No. Not about the whole system because I kind of don't know how it works. So, I said to , hey, you got a lot of areas that's blacked out. With a red X. : Okay. And then, so, knowing all that information, what is it that you told Ca tain ~? : I just told him that I couldn't get any - I couldn't go back. They weren't recordin . : Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 : I didn't say the whole institution is not recording because I didn't know. r Okay. t's just the cameras that I actuall checked. : Okay. And did you tell him if it was, like, more than one, though? Or did you just sa , hey, I can't get anything recordin is coming to fix it? : I can't recall saying more than one. Okay. I can't recall using those words. about after All right. And what Did you, then, fill her in ere reviewing the one camera? : No. No. She left. She left -- Yeah. • - so, and you never talked to her -- No. -- about it again. EFTA00117180 33 1 : Hmm-mm. 2 : All right. And did she 3 know the cameras were down, or did she just 4 know that having a problem rewinding? 5 : I think she - to be honest 6 with you - she only knew that I had a problem 7 because I couldn't playback that one unit. 8 Okay. 9 recause that's the unit that : 10 we were looking at, which were the cadre units, 11 that they go home and go different places. 12 Because after we couldn't find that inmate, she 13 kind of Oust left. 14 : Okay. And have you 15 spoken with AW since we last spoke? 16 No. 17 No? 18 No. 19 So, you didn't talk about 20 this matter with her? 21 : No. I just received, I want 22 to say an email, or it might have been - I 23 can't even say it was after or before, but I 24 did receive notification from her that she CC'd 25 me on an email about my documentation because 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 spoke? 34 these were my documents that were in her office. So, she said, hey, I just want to let you know that I gave them to the warden, whoever the warden was at that time, that was acting. And he stated he would give them to legal. MA Okay. : nd that was it. : And that's regarding your memo that we have right here? II : All of my documents. : Okay. Yeah. : All right. : This would have been included And what about -- in a pile of documents. -- and what about Captain ? Have you spoken with him since we last No. : Not at all? : I haven't seen him. : Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 35 : Do you recall the video that you were trying to pull up on August 8th? When you were trying to rewind. Were you trying to rewind the video for just that day, or from a previous : I was trying to go back to that day, at that time -- : So, for August 8th. : -- yes. : Not August 7th, 6th, or anything like that. No. Okay. No. And you said it was 5- South? : It was 5 -. It was, I think we were looking at 5-South and the S-South sally port. That may be a little foreign. It's like the hallway. r: Yeah, sure. : In between the two doors. : That's where the elevator is. : And what -. Right. 36 1 : And what is 5-South? 2 : 5-South was the cadre unit. 3 : The cadre unit. 4 : Yes. 5 : All right. And can you 6 just explain, briefly, what does the cadre unit 7 mean? 8 : The cadre units are inmates 9 that was designated to MCC New York. So, they 10 was very in custody inmates, out custody 11 inmates, community custody inmates, but their 12 designation was to MCC New York. 13 : So, does that mean 14 general population, or is it something 15 different than general population? 16 : No. They're general 17 population. 18 : Okay. 19 res. They call them the work 20 cadres. So, they work around the building, in 21 diffeiriiiiiiiiitments. 22 : So, I'm going to clarify that 23 a little bit. A majority of MCC New York, are 24 the inmates awaiting trial? 25 : Yes. Pre-trial. EFTA00117181 37 38 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 : Pre-trial. Cadre unit, are those inmates already sentenced? Yes. : So, these are post-sentence inmates. They are assigned to, already sentenced and they're -- : Okay. Assigned to MCC New York. : -- yeah. And now, these cadre inmates, do they have any special privile es? : I wouldn't say special privileges, but some do. Meaning, they can work. : Work. And what kind of work do the do? : You have some on the electric detail. Some on the plumbing detail. You have the outside detail, which was the Dayton Manor detail. : So, they get to move around a little bit? IIM They move around. : Okay. : Are they known as 1 orderlies? 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 : Well, any inmate that work, even pre-trial inmates who have a job is known as orderlies. r 3ut cadres, do they get to Okay. leave the facility? Some do. : Some. They get to leave MCC, some work as town drivers? Right. : They go to the warehouse. Come back. t : es. : Okay. Some do. Yes. : So, they are, like, low risk inmates? 111 .1 : They're supposed to be, yes. : Okay. Yes. : But these are sentenced inmates that have permanent - at that point, they iviiiiiiiined to MCC. : Yes. 39 1 Okay. 2 : Okay. 3 : Anything else on -? 4 : I guess the last question 5 I would say is, do you know what it was you 6 were trying to watch? Like, what happened that 7 causeiliiiiiiiiry to watch the 5-South video? 8 : I do. I can't recall the 9 inmate's name. We were looking for him because 10 we suspected that he was involved with an 11 incident that OIG Agent (Phonetic Sp. 12 *00:28:00) was looking into, and myself. 13 So, this inmate name kept coming up. I 14 can't remember if it was phones or, you know, 15 narcotics. I can't remember. But his name 16 kept coming up. And me and IIII IIII stated, 17 okay, we're going to talk to this inmate 18 together, to see if he had any role in what we 19 were looking at. 20 And me and I. talked, then I said, this, 21 IIII, this inmate got released. And that's 22 what made me go and try to see exactly when he 23 got released, you know, let me track what time 24 he got released, because me and had even 25 spoke about going to - if he got released to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 this to who? 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 the halfway house - we were going to go to the halfway house and speak to him. Okay. Okay. I'm going to move on. Co ahead. : I have a document here. : Yeah. : This states, for the record, number 104, timestamp 9:00, August 2019. Can you let us know what we're looking at? : I don't know what this is. So, this was provided by , from the com shop. : Okay. So, provided To me. : To you? : And I turned this over to OIG because they requested the call. The call logs. So, is that -- So, this is the call log. But this is foreign except for the date and the end date. : So, you wouldn't understand, EFTA00117182 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 you wouldn't know what this is about? I just know it's a call log. : Okay. : Because this is what he gave me. So, I'm assuming this is the date somebody made a call. Again, the end and time. What time the other person answered. Just from looking up here, at the top of it. Everything down here, I don't know. : Now, did give that to you based on a request that you asked him for? Did you ask him for a call, a specific call log? . want to -. : Well, read the date and time, and then -- So -- maybe that will help. -- the start date on this is August 9th. Mm-hmm. : 2019. The answer date is August 9th, 2019. : Mm-hmm. : And the end date is August 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 42 9th, 2019. So, it's the same date, right? And the start time is 18:58:03. So, that means 6:58 o.m. : Okay. : The answer time is 6:58:22. So, that means Mm-hmm. 6:58 p.m. And the end time is 19:19. That's 7:59 p.m. Okay. Yeah. : So, the call, it seems that it lasted about 21 minutes. : About 20 minutes. Yeah. Again, whatever call logs that I asked him for was call logs that was asked from OIG of me, hey, I need the call log. They asked for it. I know they asked for the Special Housing Units. How man hones were up there. And -- : And by looking at that, are you able to tell if that was a Special Housin' Unit call? : I don't know. : Does it show anything on there, : There is a caller station, 43 1 there is numbers and everything, but it doesn't 2 state s ecificall . 3 : Okay. Do you know 4 anybody that made a call from the MCC on August 5 9th, 2019, at approximately 7:00 p.m. that 6 would be of interest for people that were 7 investi atin ? 8 : I don't know. 9 : So, do you know anything 10 about Epstein calling and placing a telephone 11 call from the SHU on August 9th, 2019? 12 : Only word of mouth, that I 13 heard when I got there on the 10th, that he - I 14 want to say the unit manager gave him a call - 15 because that was the discussion - the unit 16 manager gave him a call to his mother. 17 And at that point, they were saying his 18 mother was dead. And I don't know if this is 19 the call, because I don't know how to read it, 20 but I did hear that part of it. 21 : And do you remember if 22 you asked for that specific information? 23 Did E stein lace a call? 24 : I wouldn't have asked him did 25 he place a call? I would have asked him 44 1 whatever hone numbers that OIG asked me for. 2 : Okay. Now, as far as the 3 information that you just said, which unit 4 manager rovided who a call? 5 : It's my understanding that 6 Unit Mana er gave Mr. Epstein the call. 7 Okay. Sometime on, in 8 the niiiiiiiiiigust 9th, 2019? 9 : Mm-hmm. That's my 10 understanding. But that was just hearsay. 11 People speaking. I didn't witness him give a 12 phone call. No. 13 : But you don't know if 14 that's the call log for him? 15 : I have no idea. 16 : Okay. 17 : And based on that, if this 18 was the request for that, if this was the 19 request for that call log, and this was what 20 the communications tech pulled up, the call log 21 that he pulled up, and this is for the SHU, 22 would this be the phone number listed on the 23 call lo ? 24 : Oh, I don't know. 25 : Okay. EFTA00117183 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 45 : Because I wouldn't have had the number. Okay. : And we'll just have her initial and date both of these. : No problem. On both these documents, lust initial and date -- . So -- : Okay. : -- not attesting to it, it's just that, these are the documents we showed you. No problem. : And one is the memo from August 10th, and the other is the call log from August 9th. Okay. : And again, it's 3/16/22. : Do you know what : Yes, sir. of Inmate form BP-408 is? : BP-408? Oh, I've been out a while. BP-408. I'm not sure what -. Give her some -- UM,- could you -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 -- yeah. Give her some context to that. I'm going to read. : So, when someone gets a pack and PIN, or they're able to use the inmate telephone system, would they have to sign something called an Acknowledgement of Inmate form, BP-408? : I'm not sure. Because I've never dealt with their pack and PIN numbers. So, I'm going to read you this. I'm just going to read you this, so that you can kind of get a -- It's going to be separate. -- full. Well, and you go. Because ou -- Okay. -- probably understand more. Go ahead. : So, do you know anything about pack and PINs? When an inmate is assigned PINs? : Vaguely. A little about the pack and PIN numbers. : Okay. So, do you know if 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 47 Epstein was assigned a pack and PIN? Oh, I don't know. : Okay. Well, our understanding was Epstein needed to be assigned a pack and PIN, and because he was at attorney conference all the time, he was never available for a pack and PIN to be set up for him. And what we're trying to find out is, if Epstein was ever assigned a pack and PIN, and if he was assigned a pack and PIN, did he ever sign a form called Acknowledgement of Inmate form, BP-408? Oh, I don't know. : What about if an inmate is afforded a legal call? Do they have to sign a form? : Normally, they request the legal call. This is my knowledge of being a lieutenant. They put a cop-out into their unit team, requesting that a legal phone call, and somebody from their unit team will come up with a logbook, I guess after they verify that that is their attorneys number, and they tell the attorney, okay, we're going to set up this phone call for 10:00. Then they will go up and 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 48 give the phone call to the inmate, and log it in the le al call back. : But you're not aware of any kind of form that they need to sign as opposed the logbook? : I'm not sure because that would be unit team. Okay. But you're not - you don't remember a BP-408, an Acknowledgement of Inmate form, or what it is? : No. • Okay. : Where would we find that? If that's a form that we're looking for, inmate had signed something like that, where would that .t.bel : I would think it would be in the inmate's central file. : And that would be in the central office? : And I would think the unit team members would have the central file in their area. : Okay. And if the inmate was in the SHU, it would be in the SHU? EFTA00117184 49 1 : It would still be with the 2 unit team that the inmate was assigned to. 3 : Okay. And now, I'm going to 4 read you a paragraph here. This is about 5 federal re ulations. 6 : Okay. 7 : "Federal regulations require 8 that the warden of each BOP institution 9 establish procedures to monitor inmate 10 telephone conversations, which is done to 11 preserve the security and orderly managing of 12 the institution, and to protect the public. 13 For safety and security reasons, BOP 14 policy requires that all inmate telephone calls 15 be made through the inmate telephone system, 16 ITS. BOP policy recognizes that on rare 17 occasion, in times of crisis, inmates may be 18 permitted to make a telephone call outside of 19 the ITS. 20 In such circumstance, the telephone must 21 be placed in a secure area; example, in a 22 locked office, and must be set to record 23 telephone calls. Additionally, the staff 24 member coordinating the call must notify the 25 BOP Special Investigative Services (SIS) via 50 1 email, providing the inmates' name and register 2 number, the date and time of the call, the 3 number and name of the individual called, and 4 the reason for the call. SIS must enter this 5 information into the telephone recording system 6 within seven days." 7 : Okay. 8 : Do you recall if you ever got 9 notified about a call like this for Mr. 10 Epstein? 11 : No. 12 : Okay. Was it standard 13 practice at MCC if an inmate was ever afforded 14 a call like this, would you ever get an email? 15 : No. I've never gotten an 16 email. 17 : Were you ever been aware 18 of this re uirement? 19 : No. 20 : Were you ever aware that 21 inmates were given calls like this where a unit 22 team member, let's just say if an inmate wasn't 23 given a pack and PIN, a unit team member would 24 sometimes plug a line in to the legal line, and 25 would let them make phone calls to personal -- 51 1 : No. 2 : -- family members? 3 : I didn't know. 4 : Do you know if that was 5 againiiiiiiiiilif they did something like that? 6 : In my opinion, yes, it's 7 against policy because the legal line is for a 8 legal hone call. 9 : And what happens if they were 10 to allowed to do something like that? 11 : What happens to who? 12 : No. What happens if an 13 inmate is allowed to -? What is a call like 14 that, if they have to make a call to a 15 personal, a personal call, why does the call 16 have to be made on a recorded line? 17 : Because it can be a safety 18 issue if they have an unmonitored call, because 19 there's no way for us to go back and listen to 20 the call. It could have been a threat. You 21 know, it could have been something that could 22 have just been a catastrophe, and that you have 23 no way of knowing. 24 That's why we have that ICS system in 25 place, so we can go back and listen to the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 52 calls, and we can identify anything that was abnormal. : And I know this is Monday morning quarterbacking the situation, but a situation like this, with Mr. Epstein, the fact of the circumstances that surrounded what happened between August 9th and 10th, looking back that he was allowed to make a phone call like that on August 9th, should that have been allowed? No. In my opinion, no. : Why not? : It goes back to what I stated. We have no way of monitoring those phone calls. So, we don't know if - you know, just an example - if I may, we don't know if it was to intimidate a witness. We just don't know the context of the call because we can't go back to listen. We don't even know in the call if he was saying, hey, I'm feeling like this, because you have no way of goin back and listening to that call. : And being that someone, that he was allowed to make that phone call, should someone have been standing there with him, EFTA00117185 53 54 1 monitory' that phone call? 2 : Yes. 3 : Okay. And should that have 4 been logged up? Should that have been a log? 5 That a call like that was made. 6 8 Yes. 7 : Okay. Anything else on that? : You just have a question 9 here. On that last note. 10 : The call log? 11 : This one. Sorry. 12 : Oh. I think she answered 13 that. 14 Okay. 15 rou mentioned before the call : 16 log that we showed you, that's the call log -- 17 Oh, that's the log -- M- that's the 19 -- : I thought you were : 18 20 talking about this other log that you just 21 mentioned. 22 : No, no, no. 23 : I'm sorry. 24 : That call log that you said 25 that -- 1 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 w : No. Disregard. N_ okay. : You can move on. : o problem. Now, we're movin on to Au ust 10th. Okay. : Would there be a record of the exact time Correctional Officer Tova Noel pushed the emergency button on her radio? Like : I'm not too sure if -. I know when you key up the radios, they do register on the control panels. In the control center. But I don't know if that's recorded, where they can run, like, that's how they ran the telephone log. I'm not too sure. Only Mr. will know that because he's a com shop. : So, he would be able to pull it up? : Maybe. He would be the only one -- E . : He would be the only one -- -- to answer. -- that -- : Could answer it. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 officers 25 they all 55 : -- would know if you can go back fil.11those timeframes up. : So, just to run through the day. Let's just say Michael Thomas, Tova Noel, the situation, they're up there on the tier, and the discover Epstein. in Yes. : And they wanted to hit the - they wanted to notify control, hey, there is an emergence. How would they notify control? : They should hit their body alarms which -- Which is located where? -- on their radio. : So, they both have a radio, or juiiiiiiiiiison? : Up in the SHU, they both should have radios. But I don't know if they both had radios. But I know a body alarm is assigned to the Special Housing. : It's assigned. And the body alarm is where? : The body alarm, one of the have to carry it. I'm not too sure if do. I really can't remember. But I - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 radio? the radio radio. -- okay. : And once you hit that body alarm, it goes throughout the whole building, on eviiiiiiiiiradio. : And at least one officer in the SHU is assigned that? : At least one officer should have the bod alarm in the SHU. : So, it's just a special radio that has an alarm? Yes. : But it's called the body alarm? In . They're called body alarms. : Okay. : What does it look like on the radio? 56 : Is it separate from the : -- no. : Or no, no. It's a button on : It's just a button on the EFTA00117186 57 58 1 : It's an orange button. 2 Orange or red button. 3 : And when they hit it, 4 everyiiiiiiiiliotified? 5 : It goes across all the 6 radios. 7 : And what is normal practice? 8 Like, once it hits, what transpires? 9 : Whoever is in the building 10 responds to that area. When you hit that body 11 alarm, it pops on the control panel, and a big 12 screen, and we can see exactly where it's 13 cominiiiiiiiiii 14 : Okay. And is that the 15 control officer? 16 : The control officer will call 17 it. You know, we have a body alarm in the 18 Special Unit. 19 : And who is supposed to 20 respond? 21 : Normally, everybody who has a 22 radio and who is not supervising inmates 23 respond to that area. 24 : Every supervisor? 25 : If they're in the building, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 they should be. : What about if you are assigned the housing unit? Are you allowed to leave the housing unit? No. No. : You're not supposed to, no. : But if, let's say you're internal and you're moving around, you're supposed to respond? Yes. : So, as long as you're not assigned to a housing unit, and you're just there in the facility, you're supposed to respond? Right. Is there certain officer that,' " to respond for emergencies? : No. There is no specific assignment. : Okay. What is the average time it takes for additional correctional officers to respond in a case of emergency? : Normally, within two to three minutes. 59 1 : But it's not, like, oh, yeah, 2 and you ring the, you put the - or you press 3 the body alarm, it's like a matter of seconds, 4 oh, yeah, someone is there, it takes about two 5 to three minutes on average? 6 : Yes. If somebody is there in 7 a matter of seconds, that mean they're right 8 outside the door when that alarm went out, but 9 most of the time, we have to get elevators, we 10 have to run up the stairs. So, we have to get 11 to the area. 12 : Okay. Is there one officer 13 controllin the elevator? 14 : The control center is 15 controllin the elevator. 16 : So, that control officer 17 would have to know where the officers -- 18 : To pick -- 19 : -- are going? 20 : -- everybody up. Because 21 everybody will come across the radio. Hey, 22 pick me up on two. Pick me up on three. Pick 23 me up on four. So, that officer has to start 24 pickiii.om every floor. 25 : Do they keep a log of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 60 everything that transpires when an emergency happens? everythin : What do you mean, a log of : Let's just say -- -- that transpires? -- like, the stuff that comes over the radio. Like, the calls that come over, and when a body alarm is hit, do they keep track of, hey, this call came over the call , or i iis erson responded. : The practice should be, once the body alarm goes off, that control center has a logbook, as well. So, the control center officer should have that in their logbook. 7:15, a body alarm went off in the Special Housin Unit, for example. Okay. : And if I was the responding lieutenant, and I cleared that body alarm, let's say at 7:20, that logbook should also sa 7:20, body alarm cleared by Lieutenant : Okay. And this logbook, it's called the control officer logbook? EFTA00117187 61 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Yes. : Okay. Okay. : How often do body alarms go off? Or would they, around that time? Is that, like, a daily occurrence, or is it weekl or -? : I want to say almost daily, it's bod alarms. : Okay. So, people are very familiar with what to do when a body alarm Yes. -- goes off. Now, just a quick question. If an operations lieutenant is relieved at, like, 6:00 a.m., let's say, or prior, the alarm goes off at 6:33, but that operations lieutenant is still in the building, working on documentation, would that operations lieutenant, even though they've been relieved, NIM would the be required to respond -- They should. Yes. -- they should still respond? Yes. : So, even though they've 1 been relieved for their shift -- 2 Yes. 3 : -- should -. 4 : You still should respond 5 because you're physically still in the 6 7 : Okay. And would that 8 operations lieutenant have given back their 9 radio, though, already if they were already 10 relieved? Or would they still have a radio on 11 them? 12 : If they're sitting in the 13 office, well, let me backtrack so I don't seem 14 confusing. The operations lieutenant that was 15 relieved would turn the radio up to the 16 relieving lieutenant. 17 So, we're not assigned individual radios. 18 You have one assigned for operations 19 lieutenant, and one assigned for activities 20 lieutenant. So, if I relieve you, , I'm 21 going to give you - you're going to give me 22 your radio and our keys. 23 : So, if that person was 24 relieved, and then is working on documentation, 25 how would they know that a body alarm was 63 1 activated? 2 : Normally, you hear it. 3 : Oh, so, everyone could 4 hear it? 5 6 : Yeah. You hear it. : Okay. So, like, because 7 it's a loud sound? 8 : Yes. 9 : Does it go throughout the 10 institution? Or just on the radios? 11 : It just go on the radios, but 12 it's really loud. So, even if somebody is 13 using the bathroom, if they have their radio, 14 you hear it. 15 : Okay. 16 : You hear it. 17 : Like, as in, like, if a 18 radio is going off outside of the bathroom, 19 even if they don't have their radio in the 20 bathroom is that what you mean? 21 : You'll hear it. 22 Okay. So -- 23 : You'll hear it. 24 • -- the person using the 25 restroom would hear a radio that was outside of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 64 the restroom, is what you mean? : Yes. Okay. : And then, the lieutenant's office, the way it's set up in MCC New York, is we also have the Nice camera system set up with big screen TVs, as such. So, if you are there and you see people running, your first instinct going to be, what's going on? Everybody is runnin. Okay. : So, if you're still in the office, and -- If you're in the office. -- office, and you're still doing work -- Mm-hmm. -- you should be able to see. Yes, because I think it's about three or four big screen TVs in there. : Now, is it a requirement that tlas esond, or just they should respond? : I don't, I can't recall a policy on if you've been relieved, but you definitely should respond. EFTA00117188 65 1 Okay. Would that be a 2 sound correctional judgment? 3 t es. 4 : Okay. 5 : I'm going to move on. 6 : Yup. 7 : I'm going to, this document 8 that I'm showing you -- 9 : Yes. 10 : -- is dated Friday, August 11 9th, 2019. And then, the back is dated 12 Saturday, August 10th, 2019. Can you let us 13 know what this document is? 14 : Yes. Well, this is called 15 the SHU locator form. 16 : What does that mean? 17 : It's basically all of the 18 ranges in SHU, and the cell numbers, and the 19 inmates that's assigned to the cells. 20 : Okay. So, basically, a 21 roster for the SHU. 22 : It's a roster for the SHU, 23 cell assignments, who's the cell, assigned to 24 what cell. 25 : Okay. And then, the bottom 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 66 here, on L-tier, 220-U, and 220-L. Who are the inmatiiiiiiiiiid on there? : Inmate and Inmate Epstein. : What is C/F? You see the letters next to Epstein's name, it says C/F? C/F. Yes. : What does that mean? : Common fear. Common fear meal. Meaning, he got some kind of, I don't know what was his religion. : So, it's -- But it's a religious -- -- yeah. -- meal. Okay. : That's the common fear. : I just wanted to get clarification on that. Min-hmm. : Just have her initial and date it. Okay. : Next document, it states 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 67 "United States Department of Justice, Federal Bureau of Prisons, MCC New York. Transfer Receipt." This is dat2iLlijja, August 9th, 2019. Received from IIIIIIIIII. Warden MCC New York. "Following United States prisoners." Sorry it's a little tough to read. IIIIIIIIII: No. "Prisoners together with complete files for transfer as indicated WAB, USMS, SONY." What is this document? I have -. This is an R&O -. : So, you've never seen one of these documents? : Documents. I don't know what that is. Well, it's a transfer receipt. But I don't know when they do it, and for, obviously, why the do it. I don't know. : But you've never seen one of these before? : No. I've never physically seen the transfer receipt. : And this is not, you don't think this is one of those documents that goes out to the units, saying these are the inmates that are getting transferred? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 68 : Hmm. I don't think so. Because I've never seen it. As a lieutenant, I would have seen it, and if we had good officers in there, I would have received a copy, as well. I've only seen the rosters. The physical rosters. Never the transfer receipts go out to the unit. And when you say it's a transfer receipt, does that mean that it's created after the prisoner is transferred? EM : I don't know. : Okay. : I don't know. : The signature on that bottom. Do you recognize that name by any chance? : No. : Okay. : (Indiscernible *00:50:39). I don't know who that is. Okay. No problem. : Two minutes. Two minutes. set. : And this is just the last : Sure. EFTA00117189 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 69 : What I'm showing you are pictures. It is in black and white. Unfortunately, we were not able to print it in color. There's two pictures here. I need - you to initial these after. Sure. : These are, these pictures were taken by the coroner's office, just to clarify. : Okay. : And these were taken at the MCC, just to clarify. These look like AED machines? Yes. : And do you know what this is? : It looks like a -- : (Indiscernible *00:51:24). . -- a home-made noose. : A home-made noose. : Yes. : Have you seen this before? 22 : Yes. 23 : Do you know what this is? 24 And to us, in the - because it's in black and 25 white, and I know in the picture it looks black 70 1 2 : Mm-hmm. 3 : -- to us, in color, it looks 4 like a curtain. 5 : No. It looks -. How can I - 6 ? It's like a divider. 7 : Okay. 8 : On wheels. 9 : That's what we need you to 10 clari . So where is this picture taken? 11 : I'm not too sure where they 12 took this icture at. 13 : The divider on wheels. Was 14 this something that was brought up to the SHU, 15 or was this somewhere else? 16 : I don't know. I don't know. 17 : Do you recall something like 18 that, like, that was brough up into the SHU to 19 cover up Epstein's cell, or was this brought in 20 the health center to help? 21 : I don't know. 22 : Would the divider be - if 23 an inmate committed suicide - would a divider 24 be put up outside of his cell so that other 25 inmates can't see what's going on? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 71 : I've never seen a divider put up. IMM : Okay. : Since I've been a lieutenant. : Okay. No problem. Can you initial and date? : Do you know if there was a divider put up after Epstein was removed, so that - because it was a crime scene? : I don't know. When I got there there was no divider up. • Okay. So, you don't recall -- : Once I arrived. No. -- you don't recall -- : I didn't see -- -- a divider. -- a divider. : Okay. No. : Since the last time we spoke, was there anything else that came to mind you think that you would want to share with us, anything else that you think would be pertinent to our investigation? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 72 : Nothing that I thought about. I felt like you guys touched on everything when we spoke. : Well, thank you again for taking the time -- : No problem. -- to talk to us. Any time. All right. Thank you, thank No problem. • Oh, and just, you still are a lieutenant, you said? Correct? Yes. : And you're right now assigned to the MDC Yes. -- but on leave? Yes. : Okay. But you're expecting to return to the MDC? : Yes. • Okay. Thank you. : You're welcome. : This is Special Agent EFTA00117190 73 74 1 The time is 10:48 a.m., and we are CERTIFICATE 2 stopping the recorder. I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 represent an accurate transcript of the 4 electronic sound recording of the proceedings 5 before the Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General in the matter of: 7 8 Interview of 9 10 11 12 Transcriber 13 , 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00117191