EFTA00117355.pdf

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 SEPTEMBER 1, 2021 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00117355 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 NONE 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00117356 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 name is : The recorder is on. My and I am I Senior 3 3 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 4 Justice Office of the Inspector General New 5 York Field Office and these are my credentials. 6 : Thank you. 7 : This interview with 8 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee - or 9 lieutenant - is being conducted 10 as part of an official U.S. Department of 11 Justice Office of the Inspector General 12 investigation. Today's date is September 1, 13 2021, and the time is 3:08 III. This interview 14 is being conducted at the Metropolitan 15 Correctional Center - MCC - in New York, New 16 York. Also present is DOJ OIG Special Agent 17 . This interview will be recorded 18 by me, SSA . Could everyone 19 please identify themselves for the record and 20 spell your last name. To start, again I am DOJ 21 OIG Senior Special Agent , .- 22 23 MR. : I am DOJ OIG Special Agent 24 . These are my 25 credentials. EFTA00117357 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 : Thank you. Lieutenant 2 Last name is 3 4 : Thank you, sir. This is 5 an official DOJ investigation into the death of 6 inmate Jeffrey Epstein and the surrounding 7 circumstances. And you're being asked to 8 voluntarily provide answers to our questions. 9 Will you agree to I voluntary interview with 10 the DOJ OIG? 11 : Yes. 12 : Thank you, sir. This is 13 the United States Department of Justice Office 14 of the Inspector General Warnings and 15 Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide 16 Information on I Voluntary Basis form. It 17 says, you are being asked to provide 18 information as part of an investigation being 19 conducted by the Office of the Inspector 20 General. This investigation is being conducted 21 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978 22 as amended. This investigation pertains to job 23 performance failure and security failure. This 24 is I voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 25 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary EFTA00117358 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 1 action will be taken against you if you choose 2 not to answer questions. Any statement you 3 furnish may be used as evidence in any future 4 criminal proceeding or agency disciplinary 5 proceeding or both. And there is I waiver 6 section and it says, I understand the Warnings 7 and Assurances stated above and I am willing to 8 make I statement and answer questions. No 9 promises or threats have been made to be and no 10 pressure or coercion of any kind has been used 11 against me. You want to take I second - I 12 minute - to look at this? And if you agree, 13 there's an employee section and there's an 14 employee's name. Sign the employee signature 15 and print where it says employee's name. 16 : Oh. That's it? 17 MR. : Print your name right below 18 that. 19 : Okay. The date and time 20 also? 21 : I can fill that out. 22 : All right. 23 : Thank you, sir, for 24 signing and printing your name. All right. 25 III signing as the Special Agent. And I am EFTA00117359 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 printing my name, 2 can you please fill out the rest of this form? 3 MR. : This is 4 signing as witness. 5 : All right. Did you 6 understand the OIG form? 7 : Yes, sir. 8 : Great. Before we start 9 the interview, I'd like to place you under 10 oath. , can you please raise your 11 right hand. Do you swear to tell the truth and 12 nothing but the truth during this interview? 13 : Yes. 14 : Thank you, sir. All 15 right. Is it correct that you were interviewed 16 regarding the Epstein matter on August 19, 17 2019, and again by myself and Special Agent 18 on July 14, 2021? 19 : Yes. 20 : All right. So we just 21 reviewed the transcript. We just had I couple 22 - I few questions - just for follow-ups. So 23 III just going to -. We have an actual 24 transcript here if you want to see the specific 25 wording, but just kind of broke it down to EFTA00117360 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 1 summarize so we don't have to like flip through 2 the -- 3 : Okay. 4 : -- pages. So page - III 5 just going to read I few of these things and 6 then I'll get into the questions. It says on 7 page 43, "I knew he was going downstairs." So 8 WAB - so we're talking about inmate Reyes right 9 now. Do you remember Efren Reyes? (Phonetic 10 Sp. *00:04:08) 11 : Yes. 12 : He was WAB. He was 13 Epstein's celimate. So we're just trying to 14 follow-up I little bit more on what happened 15 with Reyes. So again, on page 43 you said, "I 16 knew he was going downstairs. So WAB means 17 with all belongings. And you go to R&D. 18 you're supposed to leave within probably an 19 hour and knock on back. But there have been 20 times that they go downstairs for all their 21 stuff and they come right back upstairs whether 22 it's to SHU or to I unit." And then on the 23 next page on 44 it says, "There's been I lot of 24 times that we take them downstairs. Two-three 25 hours later something happens. You know what, EFTA00117361 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 go right back upstairs. You leave tomorrow or 2 the next day." Page 45, you talked about in 3 the interview the daily log. Do you recall? 4 This is the daily log and on the back page 5 you'll see where it says Efren Reyes and where 6 he was pre-remove. 7 : Yes. 8 : It says, "During an 9 interview we searched the daily log that shows 10 Reyes was pre-removed at 8:35 III. on August 9, 11 2019. You said that that means that Reyes left 12 the building at most likely not going to 13 return. If he was going to court, it would 14 just say "court" next to his name." is that 15 Correct? 16 : Correct. 17 : Okay. Page 46 you then 18 said that pre-remove and WAB are basically the 19 same thing. Is that correct? 20 : Correct. 21 : All right. Page 47 and 22 48, then you said, Since the daily log said 23 pre-remove, that means that the callout sheet 24 court roster likely said WAB next to Reyes' 25 name. When he was removed from the SHU. And 8 EFTA00117362 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 you believed that is what it said. is that 2 Correct? 3 : Correct. 4 : All right. Page 49, you 5 then said that an inmate who was going to court 6 would not leave with all their belongings and 7 said that Reyes left with all of his 8 belongings. 9 : Correct. 10 : All right. You then said 11 that Reyes should have been replaced as soon as 12 it was confirmed that he left the building. So 13 after talking with you, we talked to R&D, and 14 we reviewed I bunch of documents. And we found 15 these - emails that we found from August 8, 16 2019. You wouldn't have received them. But 17 or at least I don't believe you did. So the 18 first one was sent at 10:33 III. and it says 19 that the following prisoners are being 20 transferred. It says Reyes, Efren. Please 21 schedule the transfer for Friday, 8/9/2019. 22 Please include seven days of medication with 23 medical summary. Thank you. Did you ever 24 receive that? 25 : I don't know. EFTA00117363 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 10 1 : You don't. All right. 2 And then on August 8, 2019, at 3:36 III. 3 there's I prisoner schedule report. It just 4 says Efren Reyes transfer within. It says MCC 5 TOT to GO, meaning that he was being 6 transferred from the MCC to GO. 7 : Right. 8 : That lines up with your 9 story where you said like if he was going to 10 court it would have said court. 11 : Right. 12 : And if it - if he was 13 leaving, it would say pre-remove and WAB like 14 it did. Correct? 15 : Correct. 16 : All right. Awesome. And 17 then also, you told us this, but when we were 18 reviewing one of the other interviews, it said 19 that. I guess - did you and officer Monge - 20 are you the two that escorted both Reyes and 21 Epstein down to -? 22 : Reyes was going to I think 23 R&D. And Epstein was going to attorney 24 conference. 25 : Okay. So Monge was with EFTA00117364 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 1 you though? Because during this is says that 2 his last interaction with Epstein was on August 3 9, 2019 while doing an escort with Officer 4 . Monge stated that told 5 Epstein that he would need I new cellmate since 6 Reyes was released. 7 : Yes, sir. Pretty much. 8 : Okay. 9 : See when I was out the 10 door, that's when I told him. 11 : Yeah-yeah-yeah. And you 12 had mentioned you had said that. Yeah. 13 : Correct. 14 : I already read that. 15 : I did tell him you're going 16 to get I bunkie. 17 : Right. So just the 18 follow-up question with all review of this 19 stuff. I guess it's based on this information 20 in your statements, why wasn't Epstein assigned 21 I new cellmate after Reyes was brought 22 downstairs as I WAB? 23 : You asking me? Like 24 : Yeah-yeah. So for 25 instance, during your shift, so he was brought EFTA00117365 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 12 1 down at least by 8:38 - that's when he was 2 listed as pre-remove. You had said, you know, 3 sometimes they come right back up. You know it 4 could always take an hour or two -. 5 : Or longer until the 6 conclave - sometimes it's not -- 7 : Right. 8 : -- right before for the 9 count. 10 : So like why - your shift 11 ended at 2:00 III. correct? 12 : Correct. 13 : Why wasn't he replaced 14 prior to 2:00 III. if, you know, 8:00 all the 15 way to 2:00. That's like six hours later. 16 : Well he was in attorney 17 conference. It usually takes -. 18 : Not Epstein. sorry. 19 Reyes' - oh sorry. This is how you're 20 answering it. So yeah, why wasn't Epstein 21 inmate replaced and - or cellmate replaced? 22 And III sorry for interrupting. 23 : To mine, he wasn't replaced 24 because he didn't' need I replacement right 25 then and there. Because Epstein was still EFTA00117366 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 13 1 downstairs. So pretty much I guess he got I 2 couple of hours to search for the bunkie or let 3 somebody know. I really don't know. I wasn't 4 replaced. 5 : So when we talked to you 6 though, you said he wasn't replaced because you 7 didn't know that he wasn't going to return. 8 : Correct. 9 : But in reviewing all of 10 this and reviewing your statements, and then 11 reviewing everything, we did know he wasn't 12 going to return. And you even said like no he 13 was WAB - that's not court. He was leaving and 14 if he didn't' come back within I few hours, and 15 we knew he wasn't leaving. 16 : Right. So -. 17 : So -. 18 : He goes downstairs at 8:00 19 in the morning, he could still come back. Like 20 I said before, he could still come back right 21 before the count. Because the count is at 22 4:00. 23 : How would that happen if 24 before when you're -. Again, in your statement 25 you said it could take like an hour or two but EFTA00117367 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 1 if he's not back then, you know, your exact 2 statement was, "There's been I lot of times 3 when I take them downstairs you know two-three 4 hours later something happens. You know what, 5 go right back upstairs. You leave tomorrow or 6 the next day. So this was obviously I lot 7 longer than two or three hours. So why was it? 8 And I guess - the way that you had said, it's 9 kind of like you passed it along saying make 10 sure he gets I bunkie. Right? You said that 11 you told Officer 12 : Correct. 13 : But why didn't -? 14 : At 2:00 when I left. 15 : That's what you said -- 16 : Yeah. 17 : -- at 2:00 right? So but 18 why wasn't - why weren't the proper - the 19 notifications made prior to that time to get 20 him I bunkie? 21 : I really don't remember why 22 it wasn't done. Or I don't think there was I 23 reason why it wasn't done. I mean it was hours 24 later, yes, but it's not just one thing going 25 on. EFTA00117368 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 1 : Yeah-yeah-yeah. So you 2 knew though that he wasn't coming back, right? 3 : No, I didn't. I never said 4 I didn't. 5 : Then how can you say that 6 though? Because you said that WAB means that 7 he's gone. 8 : With all belongings. 9 Correct. And once again, just because it says 10 WAB, he could come back within I couple of 11 hours. I couple of hours could be right before 12 the consign. 13 : The count at 4:00 III.? 14 : Correct. 15 : How is I couple of hours 16 - I couple hours means two. So eight, nine, 17 ten -. 18 : Well I don't have specific 19 times. I don't - like I really don't know how 20 to say anything or what to say. If it didn't 21 happen, it just didn't happen in between that 22 time. 23 : Right. 24 : Like I said, it was 25 probably I whole bunch of stuff going on. And EFTA00117369 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 1 to me, again, he was another inmate. And if 2 Reyes went downstairs, there was I possibility 3 he was going to back because you know, again, 4 it's not the first time or last time somebody 5 goes downstairs with WAB and has to go right 6 back upstairs. 7 : Right-right. 8 : So I really don't know why 9 he wasn't replaced within more than just two 10 hours. 11 : Okay. So -. 12 : Because III saying I couple 13 to get an (Indiscernible *00:11:45) 14 : When did you leave the 15 MCC on August 9, 2019? 16 : Maybe 1:45, I think. 17 : All right. So you 18 actually - your shift was presented too, but 19 you did leave around that time too? 20 : Correct. 21 : Um -. 22 : I don't know what was 23 exactly the time. 24 : Okay. But you didn't 25 stay for like an overtime shift? Or stick EFTA00117370 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 around? 2 : I went to - what was it? I 3 think I did (Phonetic Sp. *00:12:12) 4 after that. III not sure. 5 : What did you do? 6 : Time driver. 7 : What does that mean? 8 : The van outside the 9 building. 10 : Oh. So you're still 11 working though? 12 : I think I did it that day. 13 I don't know but. 14 : Okay. But you were not 15 in the SHU after 2:00 III 16 : No, I wasn't. 17 : All right. Now we talked 18 with And we talked to the people that 19 you listed as the people who said that. And 20 they're all saying that you did not tell them 21 to get him I new bunkie. 22 : Okay. 23 : So did you tell them? 24 Did you tell that he needed to get I new 25 cellmate? EFTA00117371 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 : I told and 2 (Phonetic Sp. *00:12:48). 3 : Okay, because 4 : Just like I said before. 5 Huh. 6 : Yeah, so I mean, we have 7 the statements here. Over and over again 8 saying absolutely not. said absolutely 9 not. 10 : Okay. 11 : So did you make those 12 notifications? 13 : Once again, yes I did. 14 : Okay. So even though the 15 people that you're saying that didn't - and 16 was in your - on your shift, correct? 17 : Yes. 18 : But he wasn't even there 19 after the fact, right? 20 : No. 21 : So what would he gain 22 from not - or from making those statements? 23 : I don't know. 24 : Does he have something 25 against you? EFTA00117372 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 19 : No, I don't think so. : Yeah, so III just trying 3 - just trying to put - here's the daily 4 assignment roster. It shows from Friday, 5 August 9, 2019, and - let's see. Where are you 6 listed? You're listed right here as 7 And is here. I guess - what time 8 would have he gone from? Is it 7:00 to 3:00 or 9 8:00 to 4:00? 10 : Whatever numbers. There 11 should be I number right next to it. 12 : Okay. So it's eight- 13 eight. So he would have been 8:00 to 4:00. 14 Okay. So he would have been there up until 15 4:00 III.? And then you would have bene there 16 until 2:00 III.? 17 : Correct. 18 : All right. So you 19 believe they're just both incorrect? Or lying 20 to us? 21 : I don't believe none of 22 that. I just - maybe they don't remember me 23 telling them. 24 : Because you had no one -. 25 And this - just so you're aware - this one from EFTA00117373 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 was back in, you know, back when the 2 incident happened. 3 : Okay. 4 : So it's not like it was 5 two years later. This was like right away they 6 spoke with him. 7 : Okay. 8 : Now did you have - since 9 we have spoken, have you recalled if you 10 actually passed the information up to like the 11 ops and activities lieutenant, which was Durant 12 and um -. 13 : You on, this is what like I 14 couple of years ago? From last time, nothing's 15 changed from our last conversation. 16 : All right. So no, no 17 recollections? So if you didn't tell them and 18 if they were aware, how would have they found 19 out? 20 : Probably through R&D. 21 : R&D or something. So it 22 they knew though that he left, but they also 23 make the same claim, we didn't know he wasn't 24 coming back. Where would they get that 25 information from? EFTA00117374 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 1 : That he wasn't coming back? 2 Or that he was coming back? 3 : That they didn't know if 4 he wasn't or not. 5 : Unless through R&D. That's 6 the only time. 7 : So R&D knows that he's 8 gone? They know he was transferred. He's 9 gone. 10 : Some (Indiscernible 11 *00:15:34) 12 : So is there anyone -? 13 : Because we don't get the 14 notifications unless on the count or where's 15 this body at - or this person left so he 16 shouldn't be on your count. 17 : So like if at the time, 18 so on August 9th, they're saying yes, I knew 19 Reyes left but I wasn't sure if he wasn't 20 coming back. Would have that been based upon 21 information that you provided or someone from 22 the SHU provided? Or you're just saying from 23 eh overall count? 24 : From the overall count - 25 just in general. EFTA00117375 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 1 : Okay. Because they would 2 - if they were involved in the count, they 3 would see where people -- 4 : Correct. 5 : -- left from or not? All 6 right. So that doesn't mean that you told them 7 that. 8 : You asked me earlier if I 9 told them. I did recall telling them. 10 : The other day you said 11 you thought you did but you couldn't remember. 12 : Yeah. 13 : So are you confident you 14 did tell them? 15 : Again, it's I while back. 16 I don't remember some stuff from last week. So 17 18 : Sure. 19 : -- you know. I do recall. 20 III not 100 percent positive. Most likely I 21 did tell them. 22 : But yeah, you just don't 23 - you don't know if you did or didn't. So 24 that's where - and you're - because you're 25 saying the 100 percent thing. But you're 100 EFTA00117376 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 percent positive you told 2 : I don't even remember if I 3 told him because he started at 4:00. 4 : Well this should -. 5 started at 4:00? 6 : I think started at 7 4:00. 8 : But was your 9 replacement, right? 10 : Correct. At 2:00. 11 : So he would have started 12 at 2:00? 13 : At 2:00. 14 : All right. So are you 15 100 percent positive you told 16 : III very certain that I did 17 tell him. Him and 18 : Okay. And can you just 19 recall what it is you told them again? You 20 told us I couple things during your interview. 21 So I just want to make sure that - what it is 22 you actually said. 23 : I don't remember word-by- 24 word what I told them. Like I said, it's been 25 what I couple years. And you know, III pretty EFTA00117377 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 sure I told them they - Reyes might not be 2 coming back. He got to get I bunkie. 3 : So you said Reyes might 4 not be coming back but you have to get him I 5 bunkie? 6 : Nah, if he doesn't come 7 back, you got to get him I bunkie? 8 : All right. So at that 9 point, you still are saying that even though 10 you knew he was WAB at 2:00 III. that you 11 didn't know he was coming - not coming back? 12 : I didn't know if he was. 13 And I didn't know if he was not coming back. 14 : And again, even though 15 you knew he wasn't going to court. What at 16 2:00 III. would have caused him to come back? 17 : At 2:00 III.? 18 : Yeah. 19 MR. TUPPER: Who Reyes? 20 : Yeah, you're saying that 21 you told them at 2:00 III. that he might not be 22 coming back. At that point, when you dropped 23 him off, all way earlier in the morning. 24 MR. : I don't -. So once they 25 leave, I don't - III not on top of calling EFTA00117378 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 1 every five minutes to find out where this 2 inmate going or is he coming back or is he not 3 coming back. So once he leave the SHU, then 4 they leave SHU. 5 : Okay. But with you 6 saying that he was WAB and pre-remove, you had 7 mentioned though, that that meant they weren't 8 coming back. 9 : There's I possibility of 10 him not coming back. Correct. 11 : Well you said not 12 possibly, so doesn't that mean you weren't 13 coming back, but only if there were some 14 problems that happened within the first hour or 15 two. And they would -. 16 : I don't recall. Like -- 17 : All right. 18 : -- that seems repetitive 19 and it's getting I little frustrating. 20 : Yeah. I know. It's not 21 - just trying to get the clear answer of 22 like -. We're just trying to figure out. 23 Alright, you left during your shift. You're 24 the one who sent him down. You knew he was 25 WAB. You knew that WAB meant he wasn't coming EFTA00117379 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 1 back. He was listed as pre-remove. R&D said 2 he transferred to another institution. This 3 all happening during your shift. You were the 4 OIC. Why didn't you take action and get him I 5 new bunkie? 6 : There was I million other 7 things going on. III not the only officer 8 working there. 9 : Okay. So you said you 10 may have -. So we have I -. 11 : Do we have to continue? 12 Because III -. 13 : This is I total - we're 14 moving off of Reyes now. So this is an email 15 sent from Friday, August 9, 2019, at 6:07 III. 16 It's from you to who was the 17 ops lieutenant. And it has to do with inmate 18 Fernandez. And it looks like it was some prior 19 incident that took place while you were on 20 shift. And I think we talked about this as 21 well. So just trying to figure out - and 22 you can look at this. Were you here at 6:00 23 M.? 24 : I did work that day. 25 That's that there. EFTA00117380 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 1 : So was that or 2 (Indiscernible *00:21:06) would it show on here 3 if you worked that day? 4 : Yes it would. 5 : Somehow? So again around 6 2:00 III. to 10:00 7 : Correct. 8 : All right. Cool. All 9 right. So during that time, do you know if you 10 had any conversations with then 11 regarding anything with like Epstein or Reyes 12 or Fernandez? 13 : I don't remember talking to 14 that day. 15 : Where is this at? 16 MR. : Did you see these? 17 : Oh there you go. Yeah. 18 It's on the second page. So there's OT 1400 to 19 2200. All right. So you were there. And 20 that's when - so as I town driver, you were 21 still able to come in and like work on the 22 reports and stuff? 23 : Or I would just walk into 24 the lobby, send I shot. 25 : All right. Great. So EFTA00117381 LIMITED 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 OFFICIAL USE you would have sent - but that -. This obviously - that email (Indiscernible *00:22:31) that would have been sent from inside the institution? : Correct. Okay. Can you just tell us I little bit? DO you remember what happened with that inmate? You know you can read this incident report if it helps you. : It says the visiting room I think. Here, I'll just read it. For the record, it says, "On August 9, 2019, at approximately 1:40 III., I SOS while assigned to the Special Housing Unit officer, proceeded to enter the Nine South visiting room. As I walked towards the door, I observed through the visiting room door inmate Fernandez, Number 86824-054 attempt to grab an unknown item from his visitor. Once inmate Fernandez reached to grab the item, I called the door and called for I lieutenant. Once I was able to enter the visiting room, I gave inmate Fernandez I direct order to walk of the visiting room - I assume that means you were EFTA00117382 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 29 1 off the visiting room - to conduct I visual 2 search. Inmate Fernandez compiled and the 3 visual search was conducted. Operations 4 lieutenant was contacted and inmate Fernandez 5 was removed from the unit. 6 : I assume it's in the 7 report. 8 : Yeah. Does that help you 9 recollect what happened then? 10 : Not really. 11 : No? I don't see I 12 (Indiscernible *00:23:56). 13 : You can catch I lot of 14 visitors. So. 15 : All right. So alright. 16 So it doesn't really ring I bell or -- 17 : Nah. 18 : -- remind you? Do you 19 know - remember where Fernandez would have been 20 placed? 21 : From the visiting room? 22 : Well it says that - do 23 you know if he was in the SHU visiting room? 24 Nine South visiting room, right? 25 : If that's what it says, EFTA00117383 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 yeah. 2 : Yeah, the Nine South 3 visiting room. The last sentence says, "And 4 inmate Fernandez was removed from the unit." 5 It does say the operations lieutenant was 6 contacted. And inmate Fernandez was removed 7 from the unit. 8 : It says he's on Seven 9 North. So not sure if that was It 10 should say location. 11 : Oh, okay. So up here is 12 this Seven North? 13 : That's what he's 14 : With I back -? 15 : -- assigned to. And on the 16 left - I think it's the fifth or sixth line - 17 on the top like sixth box should say what he's 18 assigned to. 19 : This says on I -. 20 : The location of incident. 21 The one to the left on that. 22 • III just going to give it 23 to you. 24 : Sorry. Place of incident, 25 Special Housing Unit visiting room. EFTA00117384 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 1 : Yeah-yeah-yeah. That's 2 the incident. III saying do you know where he 3 was -? It says that he was removed from the 4 unit. Do you know where he would have been 5 removed and went? 6 : Well from the visiting room 7 into SHU. 8 : Oh, okay. So you think 9 he was - when it says he was removed from the 10 unit, it doesn't mean that he was removed from 11 the SHU? 12 : No. 13 : Okay. 14 : It was in the visiting 15 room. 16 : So on (Indiscernible 17 *00:25:26). 18 MR. : Inmates from Seven North use 19 the SHU visiting room? 20 : No. So he was probably in 21 SHU. But he's assigned to Seven North. 22 : So Seven North before the 23 SHU. 24 : Yeah. 25 : And just assume where III EFTA00117385 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 1 saying. So we can actually look at that. We 2 have an inmate history quarters. If you look 3 there. I mean that's less important than Seven 4 North. Because we're trying to figure out 5 where he went. 6 : I don't remember. 7 : So in the lieutenant's 8 log - if you look at the second highlighted one 9 down there - it says at 3:15 he was moved from 10 the SHU to R&D dry cell, correct? 11 : Yeah. That's the dry cell. 12 : So do you remember at all 13 if at this - during this incident would have he 14 been moved when that happened? Or after the 15 fact would he be moved at 3:15. 16 : When it happened. 17 : When it happened? 18 : When it happened. 19 : So right at that - so 20 this 3:15 is probably I little wrong then, III 21 assuming. 22 : Well officer time. That's 23 maybe when he logged it in. 24 : Okay. So - but at - at 25 that time, you would have brough him right from EFTA00117386 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 the SHU visiting room to the R&D dry cell? 2 : I mean within the next 3 five-six minutes. 4 : Okay. And you did - and 5 it does say you did notify the ops lieutenant, 6 correct? 7 : Yes. 8 : So who would have been 9 responsible to key him out of the SHU and place 10 him into R&D? 11 : Most likely it would have 12 been control. 13 : Control would have done 14 it? 15 : Control. 16 : So who would have 17 notified control to do that? 18 : Unless control saw it over 19 the cameras, hey who is this guy. Or once he 20 got to R&D, R&D could have contacted control. 21 The lieutenant could have contacted control. 22 : Okay. 23 : SHU could have contacted 24 control. 25 : All right. So - but EFTA00117387 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 there's no one - like it wouldn't be like 2 you're the one who you wouldn't have like 3 contacted control? 4 : Nobody specific. 5 : Okay. Because if you see 6 in this, he actually wasn't keyed out until 7 12:35 III. on the next day, 8/10/209 was when 8 he was actually keyed from the SHU to R&D. So 9 do you know if - are you aware? Like who was 10 it - what should have you contacted control and 11 told them? 12 : Anybody could have 13 contacted -- 14 : Anyone could? 15 : -- it doesn't have to be 16 me. 17 : Okay. Even though you 18 know working in the SHU and all that kind of 19 stuff, it wouldn't be - because OIC that would 20 mean your job? 21 : Anybody can contact them. 22 MR. : Where is the SHU direct line? 23 : In the middle. 24 MR. : In the middle? 25 : Of SHU. Correct. EFTA00117388 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 MR. : Okay. And when you moved - 2 on this incident. When you removed the inmate, 3 right? 4 : It goes through SHU and 5 into the elevator downstairs. 6 MR. : And you would have - if you 7 wrote the report, that means you moved the 8 inmate yourself? 9 : No. Anybody could have 10 moved it. Because if you're in SHU, depending 11 on how many staff's in the SHU, you stay in 12 SHU. Then in turn, you could take them 13 downstairs. The lieutenant could take them 14 downstairs. Any staff could take them 15 downstairs. 16 : So do you have any idea 17 why he was moved to R&D and not to the dry cell 18 in the SHU? 19 : Maybe there wasn't enough 20 space. 21 : Okay. So that wouldn't 22 have been you responsibility then? To actually 23 do the keying or keying him out of the SHU and 24 putting him into R&D - or to notify control? 25 : I could have. Anybody EFTA00117389 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 36 1 could have notified control. Control is doing 2 that. They keyed him out. 3 : Because obviously this is 4 just part of the whole thing. This is - as I 5 think we talked about before - how many of the 6 counts were wrong. Well the counts were wrong 7 all because people in the SHU that weren't 8 conducting the counts never caught on to the 9 fact that he wasn't in here. So we're just 10 trying to figure out like - this is all going 11 to be part of the story. So obviously there's 12 going to be higher-ups who are going to like 13 look at this to say like who dropped the ball 14 there. 15 : Okay. 16 : And are you part of that 17 dropping the ball? Or is that someone that -? 18 No, III not. 19 : No? 20 : No, III not. 21 : So that wouldn't have 22 been you that would have -- 23 : No. 24 : -- been responsible? 25 : No. EFTA00117390 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 1 : But when you contacted -. 2 : I do my job to the best of 3 my ability. 4 : Absolutely. And thank 5 you for what you do. When you contact the ops 6 lieutenant, would the control been aware that 7 you made that contact with the ops lieutenant? 8 : They would have heard it 9 over the radio. 10 : So it would have been 11 over the radio. 12 : Correct. 13 : All right. So control 14 would have actually caught this on the radio. 15 So control, by you making that -- 16 : Control should be -- 17 : -- notification -. 18 : -- able to hear every radio 19 transmission. 20 : And if you're notifying 21 the ops lieutenant on the radio, should they 22 have then keyed him out? 23 : They got to verify it 24 first. 25 : Okay. So someone has to EFTA00117391 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 actually call to say -. 2 : This guy is down here. 3 Yes. 4 : Make this key entry. 5 : Yes. 6 : All right. And that is 7 not you? 8 : No. That's anybody. 9 MR. : What would you have said over 10 the radio? 11 : They would have heard 12 operations come to visiting. 13 MR. : But you wouldn't have said, 14 hey listen, you're moving an inmate. You would 15 have asked the ops lieutenant to show up to the 16 SHU -- 17 : Yeah. 18 MR. : -- so you could discuss the 19 matter, right? 20 : Yeah. Not over the radio 21 though. III not going to say over the radio 22 this inmate is going downstairs to be placed on 23 dry cell. No. 24 MR. : But then control wouldn't 25 have known that though. EFTA00117392 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 1 : What do you mean? 2 MR. : Like you asked for -. On the 3 radio call. What I said is -. 4 : So if I called the 5 lieutenant control knows that III calling the 6 lieutenant. They don't know why III calling 7 the lieutenant for. 8 MR. : But they wouldn't have known 9 that there's an inmate being moved to the -. 10 : Unless they see him through 11 the camera. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 : So I mean I understand 14 what you're saying anybody among - still just 15 trying to wrap my head around - obviously 16 everybody has I job to do and I get that you're 17 doing your job to the best of your ability. 18 But like who's responsibility is it? So 19 obviously, if someone's moving someone to 20 somewhere, someone has got to be like -. 21 : It would be the operations 22 lieutenant to notify control saying this guy is 23 being placed on dry cell, key him out. 24 : All right. So it would 25 be the operations lieutenant's job. EFTA00117393 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 : Correct. 2 : Okay. 3 : Operations lieutenant is 4 the person running the building. 5 : All right. So the ops 6 lieutenant. And in this case specifically, 7 since you're sending emails to - actually 8 counted and started I don't think that day 9 until later on. Being that - so that should 10 have been either Durant or Perez at this time, 11 correct? If this actually happened at 1:40 12 III. since they were the ops and activities 13 lieutenants at the time? 14 : They were, but he's 15 probably asked for the shot. 16 : Who asked for the shot? 17 III saying he probably 18 asked for the shot. 19 : Yeah, 20 : I don't even remember why 21 sent him the shot if the other lieutenants were 22 there. 23 : Well because III 24 assuming, because you sent that at 6:00 III. 25 • •') and this was - so it happened at 1:40 III EFTA00117394 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 : Correct. : That was very close to 3 the end of your shift, correct? 4 : Correct. 5 : And you said you probably 6 left at around 1:45. 7 : Right. 8 : So you just must have 9 like the very last thing you did in there, 10 right? 11 : Probably. Probably the 12 last thing. 13 : And again I -. 14 : But like I said before, 15 there's I million and one things going on. And 16 by seeing that shot, that's probably the 17 millionth thing going on in the SHU. 18 : Sure. So you guys are 19 just like constantly moving, you know, 20 constantly - you got things and there's I lc- 21 of things on your mind at the time, right? 22 : At all times. There's 23 always something going on. Showers, visits, 24 you know, counts, rounds. 25 : Okay. And did you just EFTA00117395 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 1 say - III sorry, I missed this - but were you 2 saying that you would have spoken in person 3 with about this? 4 : About what? 5 : Is that what you were 6 just talking about? 7 MR. : No, the question I asked was 8 the radio call that happened. What goes over 9 the radio and the radio call he mentioned is 10 this ops lieutenant come down to the SHU. 11 : Okay. 12 MR. : Come over to the SHU. But 13 the fact control wouldn't have known this is 14 regarding I certain inmate at that point unless 15 someone made the phone call or radio call 16 saying, hey listen, this inmate is being moved 17 from the SHU. 18 : Okay. I know we're 19 talking about I long time ago, but when we 20 talked to you before, you said that you didn't 21 have any conversation - or you didn't remember 22 having any conversations with at least. 23 Now that you're seeing, you know, this and 24 dealing with him regarding this matter and 25 seeing that you actually worked that shift, do EFTA00117396 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 you remember any conversations with Cannata at 2 all specifically with Epstein or Reyes? 3 : No. I actually don't even 4 remember sending him to shot. 5 : So you don't even 6 remember that email? 7 : No. 8 : Okay. Do you have any 9 reason to believe that you didn't send it? 10 : No. 11 : So you believe you sent 12 it, right? 13 : Yeah. 14 : Yeah-yeah. 15 : It had to be me. 16 MR. : I have some follow-up in 17 regards to that. Being that you're I town 18 driver at that point, right? Where would you 19 have typed that up? 20 : Probably the lobby and as 21 soon as you come into the search area -- 22 MR. : If you come -. 23 : -- we also have the 24 upstairs right before you get to the staff 25 locker room. There's I computer up there. EFTA00117397 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : So you can just -. 2 : So technically, I don't 3 have to walk inside the building to send out 4 the email, meaning pass the secure area. 5 MR. : You wouldn't have been back 6 in the SHU. You would have been in one of the 7 outside areas. 8 : Correct. 9 : All right. So and you 10 wouldn't have gone back to the SHU though after 11 2:00 III.? 12 : No. 13 : No? 14 : No. 15 : And so would you have had 16 any communication with anybody in the SHU after 17 2:00 III.7 18 : Probably not. My time. 19 Why would I? 20 : Yeah. When you're 21 writing these reports and stuff. 22 : Yeah. 23 : You want to follow-up on 24 any of this stuff? 25 MR. : When you came back in, I know EFTA00117398 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 you mentioned that you wrote up the report. 2 Being the fact that you left instructions for 3 , and , right? You wrote I 4 memo in regards to it that, hey, listen, 5 Epstein needed I cellmate. Right? They should 6 assign one. Did you follow-up with them to 7 verify if it was done? 8 : I don't think so. I 9 probably got - I just told them III outside, 10 why? If I came in it's probably, oh I just 11 remember I got to send I shot because we've got 12 24 hours to do so. And that's probably the 13 only reason I came back into the building to do 14 the shot and go right back outside. I wasn't 15 thinking about any inmate if III outside. 16 : And I do apologize. You 17 may have just answered this to him, I just was 18 already ahead in my thoughts. When it says 19 that operations lieutenant was contacted and 20 inmate Fernandez was removed from the unit. 21 Would you say that that didn't mean that you 22 removed him? 23 : Correct. 24 : All right. So do you 25 remember if you removed him? EFTA00117399 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 : No, I actually don't 2 remember. 3 : You don't know? 4 : No. 5 : Okay. And you said 6 anyone could have? 7 : Correct. 8 : Okay. 9 MR. : Whoever removed that inmate - 10 would it have been their responsibly to let 11 control know? Hey, listen, an inmate is being 12 removed. 13 : Not really. 14 MR. : And he needs to be keyed out. 15 : Not really because it could 16 have been internal, which is the elevator 17 person, just taking them downstairs. 18 MR. : But saying that is like, you 19 know, you can say oh the next person's supposed 20 to do it - the next person's supposed to do it. 21 Everyone can say the same thing. 22 : Correct. 23 MR. : But -- 24 : Just, you know, if there's 25 four people in the SHU, or any - let's say EFTA00117400 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 there's one person in the unit. That one 2 person is assigned to the unit, but that one 3 person - it's fine for somebody else to help 4 him or her out. If they have I million things 5 going on, then III not just going to sit there 6 and wait. Okay, you know, it's your 7 responsibility to do it, so III not going to do 8 anything. I mean, I don't know how other 9 people work, but if III busy, my coworkers help 10 me. If they're busy, I help them. Again, so 11 it's not - even if it's per se my 12 responsibility, his responsibility. Okay, 13 somebody got caught trying to bring contraband 14 into the building. I'll grab him off your 15 hands and I'll take him downstairs to internal 16 - to R&D for you. Or I don't know if he has, 17 I'll take him to SHU for you. It doesn't have 18 to be that one specific person that say - like 19 okay, I caught him doing something wrong. III 20 not the one that goes through the whole time 21 always. I could probably get him. Okay, the 22 lieutenant comes. He takes over. Then 23 done. I got to write the shot. Or the 24 internal - which is the elevator person - 25 comes. I got him, I'll take him off your EFTA00117401 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 1 hands. I'll take him downstairs. So it's not 2 one person that has to do these things. 3 Anybody could help you. 4 MR. : All right. So you don't know 5 if you brought the person down. Let's say the 6 employee - the correctional officer C.O. that 7 was supposed to bring him down - right? 8 : Okay. 9 MR. : You said it could possibly 10 have been the lieutenant? 11 : It could have been the 12 lieutenant. It could have been anybody that 13 took him down downstairs. 14 MR. : But one of them should have 15 someone should have taken initiative and said 16 hey, listen, let control know we're bringing 17 this person down? 18 : Probably or everybody just 19 - like in anything else - everybody assumed the 20 next person was doing it. Or somebody before 21 them did it. 22 MR. : So you're saying at this 23 point, it could have been just assumptions and 24 everybody believed each other would do it and 25 no one called him? EFTA00117402 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 1 : Well somebody eventually 2 had to do it because he has to be put on the 3 out count. 4 MR. : But as you see, he wasn't put 5 on the count until past midnight. 6 : That means somebody didn't 7 call. 8 MR. : Would that be the same then - 9 let me take I step back. Would that be the 10 same thing that happened in the morning then? 11 With the fact that Reyes was removed and 12 everyone assumed someone else would take care 13 of it and it just didn't happen? 14 : I don't know that. 15 : That was I little 16 different. Reyes was removed from the count. 17 Fernandez wasn't. 18 MR. : I meant about Epstein needing 19 I cellmate. Sorry, I should have clarified 20 that. Is that same thing happened in the 21 morning with Epstein? Reyes is removed from 22 the count. He's going WAB. And people know 23 that, you know, once he's removed, he's gone 24 with all belongings. He - Epstein - should 25 have been assigned I new cellmate, right? It's EFTA00117403 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 1 the same thing - everyone assumed that someone 2 else would take care of it? And I just kept 3 kind of fell back. 4 : It's still the same thing. 5 I don't know that. I don't know if everybody 6 else assumed. 7 MR. : Who would have been in charge 8 of the SHU that day in the morning? 9 : I don't - that same day? 10 MR. : That day - August 9th morning 11 - from 8:00 III. to when you left. Who was in 12 charge of the SHU? 13 : The SHU lieutenant. 14 MR. : If there was no SHU 15 lieutenant? 16 : It would have been part of 17 the operations lieutenant or activities 18 lieutenant. 19 MR. : Okay, and they're -. 20 : They're not -. 21 MR. : Say that again? 22 : The operations lieutenant 23 is in charge of the building. Activities helps 24 out the operations lieutenant. If there's no 25 SHU lieutenant, activities lieutenant goes up EFTA00117404 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 to feed, makes some moves, if they're in Ten 2 South or in G Tier. Because only the 3 lieutenants have the keys for that. Anything 4 else, that needs to be done in special housing, 5 the officers and staff could do it. 6 MR. : And out of the staff that's 7 in the SHU at that point, who would be in 8 charge? Is there one person that's considered 9 in charge? 10 : The OIC should be in 11 charge. 12 MR. : So who's the OIC on August 13 9th morning? 14 : I think that was me. I 15 think. Or Or the SHU warden that day. 16 MR. : Do you have the schedule? 17 Just to -. 18 : I thought you were kind 19 of like always - even though there's I 20 different (Indiscernible *00:41:04) you were 21 kind of like the OIC at that period of time. 22 Is that not right? 23 : Most of the time, yeah, 24 because I kind of knew what I was doing. 25 Person, SHU 1 was . And I was SHU 3. 51 EFTA00117405 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Were you (Indiscernible 2 *00:41:23)-? 3 : That's why I said not just 4 because you have the title doesn't mean you 5 doing everything. We all were working 6 together. 7 MR. : Were you considered to be the 8 OIC of the SHU during day - day watch? 9 : Well they -- 10 MR. : In general. 11 : -- in general, yeah. 12 Because I've worked in SHU for I long time. 13 Well not I long time, but I kind of knew what I 14 was doing. 15 MR. : That's like when Lieutenant 16 wanted something done. Instructions are 17 going to come down through you? 18 : If I was there, correct. 19 MR. : So at that point, just to 20 cover, we know - basically even Monge made I 21 statement that there's I conversation that you 22 had and you told - in the elevator to Epstein - 23 hey, listen, we need to assigning you I new 24 cellmate because Reyes is leaving. 25 : That was in SHU right EFTA00117406 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 before we went downstairs. 2 MR. : Right before? 3 : Right next to Reyes, 4 correct. 5 MR. : So at this point, it was 6 established that Epstein needed I new cellmate. 7 : Mm? 8 MR. : Should actions have been 9 taken at that point in the morning to make sure 10 - ensure that Epstein had I new cellmate? 11 : He didn't -. 12 MR. : We're not talking about 13 everyone else. We're just - from your action. 14 We're talking to Tony about you at this point. 15 Everyone should - wait I minute. As you 16 mentioned, everyone had their role. Like one 17 should have taken steps, right? 18 : Correct. 19 MR. : But from your part, should 20 you have taken actions? 21 : Should I have taken 22 actions? 23 MR. : Yeah. 24 : Um probably I could have 25 said, hey, but I didn't communicate and he was EFTA00117407 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 1 going to attorney conference. And Reyes was 2 still pretty much in the limbo of he might come 3 back. 4 MR. : Yeah, but you said already 5 that WAB - he's leaving. And you mentioned it 6 was I couple hours, right? I think you 7 mentioned -. 8 : And he also met with 9 congress -- 10 : Maybe I should -. 11 : -- and he made the 12 statements to - you made the statements to both 13 Reyes and Epstein saying you'll get I new 14 cellmate. 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 : So that's why we're back 17 here. Because we're like, when we put all this 18 together, and we're seeing all this, we're like 19 oh. Actually, it looks like it should have 20 happened right away. And it shouldn't have 21 been, you know, moved off. 22 : And again, he's not 23 guaranteed to leave the building. It's never 24 100 percent even with WAB. 25 MR. : But, okay, you said EFTA00117408 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 1 guaranteed not to leave the building. But if 2 he didn't leave the building, he would have 3 been up within I couple of - back in the SHU in 4 I couple hours. 5 : Maybe I should have not 6 said I couple of hours because I couple of 7 hours is -- 8 : No, everybody says that. 9 : It doesn't mean two. In 10 everybody's mind it doesn't mean two. But it 11 should have been - again, more than two hours. 12 There's been times more than two hours that the 13 inmate is downstairs in R&D with all his stuff 14 and comes back. 15 MR. : How often does that happen? 16 : I lot. 17 MR. : According to R&D, when we 18 spoke to R&D, rarely does it happen where an 19 inmate was brough down and they don't leave the 20 building. 21 : Well to me it happens I 22 lot. Like that's what I Not lately, but, 23 before, yes. 24 MR. : Before. Anything else on 25 that? EFTA00117409 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 1 : No, he just - we can wrap 2 it up. Can you just initial and date 3 everything we just (Indiscernible *00:44:18). 4 And we'll call it I day unless you wanted to 5 add something. Again, this is just to let you 6 - so you're not (Indiscernible *00:44:28) on 7 these things. 8 : Yeah. 9 : So it's just the daily 10 activity log, the emails that we went over for 11 Fernandez to inmate quarters. You're going to 12 actually talk about your memo, but there's the 13 information we got with, you know, the memo 14 that wrote on August 9th - or August 12, 2019. 15 And this is the email the Marshal sent to MCC 16 saying that he was being transferred. And this 17 is the PP38 that shows that Reyes was pre- 18 remove. 19 : What am I initialing - that 20 I saw this? 21 MR. : Yeah. 22 : Yeah, it's just to say 23 that this is what we talked about today. 24 : Oh. The same time as last 25 time? EFTA00117410 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 : Just the top pages of 3 everything. 4 MR. : You need I pen. 5 : I don't receive the Marshal 6 emails. 7 : Yeah, no, this is not 8 saying that you received any of that. It's 9 just saying that this is what we discussed. 10 Let me show you. And then the last thing that 11 I forgot is the daily assignment roster. So 12 where is the lieutenant's office in SHU 13 located? Is it -? 14 : It's upstairs. 15 : Is it? Is it right 16 outside of Ten South? 17 : Yes. 18 : Okay. So that camera 19 that kind of shows everything that you can see 20 down to the lieutenant's office right in there? 21 : Yes. 22 : Okay. Perfect. Anything 23 else for him? 24 MR. : No. 25 : And again, sorry to ask EFTA00117411 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 you with those questions, but it is 2 III tired. 3 : -- but, you know, it is 4 what it is. Yeah, I hear you. 5 : Repetitive. 6 : Yeah, no. It's just - 7 you know we're trying to tell I story. And we 8 just got to get our information accurate and 9 right. 10 : I apologize if I come I 11 little aggressive, but -. 12 : No-no-no. 13 : It's just frustrating. 14 : Hey, I get it. I think I 15 would be the same way -- 16 : Very frustrating. 17 if I were you because 18 you're doing so much. I totally do understand 19 that. We just got to ask the questions. 20 : That's fine. 21 : You know what I mean? 22 : You got I job to do so. 23 : Yeah. So be safe. Thank 24 you for your cooperation. 25 : All right. Thank you guys. EFTA00117412 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 1 Have I good day. 2 : You too. Oh, sorry. The 3 - this is Senior Special Agent 4 It's 3:55 III. and I am turning 5 off the recorder. Thanks again. 6 : All right. 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00117413 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of 9k4a, Air Marci Bratton, Transcriber EFTA00117414