EFTA00117526.pdf

1 APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: 2 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OTHER APPEARANCES: NONE OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL OCTOBER 27, 2021 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 3 4 1 The recorder is on. 1 Thank you. 2 : My name is . I 2 : This interview will be 3 am a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 3 recorded by me, Special Agent 4 Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New 4 Could everyone please identify themselves for 5 York Field Office, and these are my 5 the record, and spell your last name? To 6 credentials. 6 start wain I am DO] OIG Special Agent, 7 Thank you. 7 . 8 : This interview with Federal 8 Senior Special Aient 9 Bureau of Prisons employee, Captain • 9 . 10 . Did I get that right? 10 And Ca•tain 11 . 11 . 12 . . ' 12 : Thank you. This is an 13 Yes. 13 official DOJ/OIG investigation into the death 14 : Is being conducted as part of 14 of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being 15 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 15 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 16 of the Inspector General investigation. 16 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 17 Today's date is October 27th. The time is 17 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 18 11:25 a.m. This interview is being conducted 18 Yes. 19 at the OIG, New York Field Office, located on 19 : Okay. I'm going to provide 20 the 29th floor of One Battery Park Plaza, New 20 you with a form. OIG form III-226/2. It 21 York, New York. Also present is: 21 states, "United States Department of Justice, 22 DO]/OIG Senior Special 22 Office of the Inspector General Warnings and 23 Agent, . And these are my 23 Assurances to Employees Requested to Provide 24 credentials. 24 Information on a Voluntary Basis. You are 25 Thank you. 25 being asked to provide information as part of EFTA00117526 6 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 an investigation being conducted by the Office of the Inspector General. This investigation is being conducted pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as amended. This investigation pertains to job performance failure and security failure. This is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do not have to answer questions. No disciplinary action will be taken against you if you choose not to answer questions. Any statements you furnish may be used as evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or agency disciplinary proceeding, or both." The waiver section states, "I understand the Warnings and Assurances stated above, and I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. No promises or threats have been made to me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has been used against me." Please review the form, and if you understand and agree, please sign where it states, "Employee Signature " and print your name below it. You said, so, print right here? : Yeah. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 And signature and rint? Yes. This is I'm signing on the of the Special Agent. Agent , can you please sign as a witness? Yes. I am signing as a witness. Put my name, and I will enter the date, ime and place. 1111111111: Thank you. Captain before starting the interview, I would like to place you under oath. Can you please raise your ri ht hand? Yeah. : Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? Yes. Thank you. You can put your hand down. Please let me know if you do not understand any questions I ask, and I will try to re eat it, or rephrase it for you. Okay. What is your current home address? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7 : Thank you. What is your date of birth? Ma : . What is your social security number? ME What is your current cell phone number? Area code is What is your highest level of education? . Some college. What is your college? : Just a couple of community colleiiiIIIIIIII : Okay. : In my hometown. Back in Indiana. : What was the name of the colle e? • (Phonetic Sp. *00:04:27) Business College. 8 1 : Okay. And was there a 2 concertation ou were following? 3 : No. 4 : Okay. What did you do prior S to workin for the BOP? 6 : I worked for 7 Corrections. 8 And how long was that for? 9 : I started, it was about, I 10 believe I started in 1993. And then, I left 11 there in '98 and came to the BOP. 12 : Okay. In '98, you came to 13 the BOP? 14 Yes. 15 la Okay. Did you have any : 16 militar service? 17 : No. 18 : Okay. And have you been with 19 the BOP since 1998? 20 Yes. 21 Okay. Do you remember your : 22 exact enter on duty date? 23 April 26, 1998. 24 Mr Thank you. And what is your : 25 current employment status? EFTA00117527 9 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I'm sorry. I don't understand. What is your current position with -- 1: : Yeah. -- the BOP? I'm a captain. I'm sorry. : At the FCI At IIIIIi- -- yes. At FCI I'm the com lex captain. captain at FCI Oka . And prior to being , were you employed at the MCC? Well, I was the deputy captain at . Then I got the institution captain, but prior to that, yes, I was em lo ed at MCC New York. During what time period? : I started in -. I transferred to MCC in April of 2013, and I left in Seiiiiiiiiii19. : And what was, in September 2019, you transferred over to -? 1 : FCI III. 2 : As a deputy -- 3 : Captain. 4 : -- captain. 5 : Mm-hmm. 6 : What was your position at the 7 MCC in 2019? 8 I was a lieutenant. 9 ME A lieutenant. Okay. Was : 10 that a nine or -? 11 . No. I was an 11. 12 An 11. 13 . Mm-hmm. 14 : Okay. And as a lieutenant at 15 the MCC what were your duties there? 16 That year, I was assigned as 17 the administrative lieutenant. So, my duties 18 consisted of making sure the staff and the 19 correctional services department got their 20 training. I did everybody's schedules. 21 Sometimes, I covered shifts. If the captain 22 wasn't there, I acted in his capacity. lust 23 varioiiiiiiiiiiow, responsibilities. 24 : It was not in custody, it was 25 more, you said administrative? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 Well, the administrative lieutenant is part of the custody department, because everything I did involved officers and lieutenants. : Okay. And in terms, I know there is an operations lieutenant. There is an activities lieutenant. Mm-hmm. And where would you fall under? Like, do you work side by side with them, or is there a separate department that you are -? : Well, we worked on the same floor. But I don't do the same duties that Okay. So, I would be there with them, but they would be covering the shift. I had nothing to do with the shift itself. You know, the trips that went out, or the work assignments or whatever. I would do the work assignments prior to them actually working on that day. So, as the administrative lieutenant, my responsibility was to generate the daily rosters, and the quarterly rosters, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12 and give those to the lieutenants, and then they did whatever they needed to do with them. : Okay. And who reported to you directl ? : The officers reported to me. And that waspretty much it. : Which officers? : All of them, because I did all of their schedules. So, they came to me if they had an issue, or they needed time off, they had an issue with their schedule. They were out on workman's comp. Or, you know, anything dealing with leave time, or anything, they came to me. : Okay. And you mentioned that you would coordinate training for the employees? . Mm-hmm. What kind of trainings? The quarterly mandatory trainings that we were required to do. Our annual trainings that we were required to do. Regular annual refresher training. Firearms training. I had to do all of - schedule all of that. EFTA00117528 13 1 : Okay. And did you schedule 2 all of that, the quarterly training, the annual 3 refresher training, all that, in 2019? MI! 4 Yes. Mm-hmm. How is it documented if : 6 emplo ees received training? 7 : So, which training are we 8 talkin about? Just any, or -? 9 lust -- 10 : Just -. 11 -- specifically, we 12 talked about the SHU quarterly training, and 13 the annual refresher training. 14 : Okay. So, for the annual 15 refresher training, Human Resources would 16 normally get with me. They would tell me the 17 dates that they wanted to do annual refresher 18 training. And what I would do is go onto the 19 roster program. They would let me know how 20 many staff to put in each day. I would go into 21 the program. I would assign them, and then, I 22 would back fill their positions with a non- 23 custody staff member. 24 So, that was documented on every quarterly 25 roster. So, what I used to do was, because I 14 1 sat with the union, to determine which non- 2 custody staff member went to what post, I would 3 keep that, I would have them bid on what they 4 wanted to work. And I would keep that 5 documentation in the administrative office with 6 me. As far as the quarterly training goes, 7 every quarter, any staff member who bid to work 8 in SHU - in the Special Housing Unit, I'm 9 sorry. 10 Any staff member that bid to work there, 11 they had to go through mandatory quarterly 12 training. So, what I would do is, I would get 13 with the SHU lieutenant to figure out a date. 14 It has to be completed before the new quarter 15 starts. And he would tell me whatever - he or 16 she - would tell me whatever date they wanted 17 to do it. Every staff member that was on the 18 quarterly roster, that would be in SHU, was 19 scheduled to attend that training. We would do 20 it in a classroom setting, for, like, a four- 21 hour block. And all I would do was schedule 22 the training, let the SHU lieutenant know, make 23 sure he had the post orders, because all field 24 office the staff who were going to be up there 25 was supposed to go through the post orders, and 15 1 read them, and sign them. And he would the 2 training, and then just give me the sign in 3 sheet for ever bod that attended. 4 : Okay. 5 : And prior to them actually 6 starting their rotation in the SHU, this 7 trainin would have to be completed. 8 Yes. 9 : All right. And it's a 10 mandator training? 11 . Yes. 12 : And what topics does the 13 trainin cover? 14 : We have a Special Housing 15 Unit slide down. That's the normal training. 16 Mi l Yeah. 17 : But what the training should 18 cover, outside of them doing that slide show, 19 that SHU, normally the SHU lieutenant does the 20 training. Outside of that slide show, they 21 should be discussing with them how to operate 22 the SHU program. We have psychology come in 23 and do a class on suicide prevention. Hunger 24 strikes. They should be talking to them about 25 how to fill out the documentation for 292s. 16 1 Just anything dealing with SHU, period, that 2 lieutenant is supposed to go over it with them, 3 as well as have them watch that slide show. 4 : So, are they allowed to work 5 in the SHU without getting that training? 6 : Yes. However, they 7 shouldn't because that training is documented. 8 Every quarter, we have to send to the region 9 that it was completed. And it also gets, I 10 believe it gets keyed into their training file 11 with Human Resources. 12 And who was required to 13 ensure that the receive that training? 14 : The SHU lieutenant. 15 Okay. And then, what 16 would your role be in that? Like, if someone 17 didn't actually - someone would bid for that 18 quarterly position, and actually wasn't able, 19 for whatever reason, to attend the actual 20 quarterly training, for the SHU, what is the 21 protocol? What should have taken place? 22 : So, if, just say for 23 instance can I ive an example -- 24 : Absolutely. 25 : -- okay. So, just say for EFTA00117529 17 1 instance a staff member was out on a workman's 2 comp. They had missed the SHU training for 3 that reason, or they were on annual leave. 4 When they come back to work, I would coordinate 5 it with the SHU lieutenant, to have that person 6 go over the training with them. And then, they 7 would come back and make sure that they sign 8 that they completed the training. And again, I 9 kept that stored in, on file in my office. In 10 the admin office. 11 : All right. So, it sounds 12 like you were the one who kind of keeps records 13 of who has done it, and who has not. You then 14 coordinate it with the SHU lieutenant, and say 15 if this person needs to take it. And then, 16 after they take it, they are supposed to come 17 to you and si n it? 18 : No. Not -. After they take 19 it, I would give the SHU lieutenant the sign-in 20 sheet. 21 Okay. 22 WBecause that person should 23 sign for the date that they actually completed 24 the trainin . 25 : Okay. 18 1 : So, the sign-in sheet would 2 have everybody that actually attended on the 3 scheduled day, and then the names of the people 4 who still needed to attend it. And once they 5 do it, they are supposed to sign, and sign for 6 the date that the do it. 7 : Okay. 8 : So, my next question would 9 have been, if any employee was not able to 10 attend training, was there a makeup training 11 session involved? 12 : Yes. 13 And that would be not by you, 14 that would be b the SHU lieutenant? 15 : Yes. 16 : Okay. And do they normally 17 get training? How long is the SHU training? 18 How long does it normally take? The quarterly 19 trainin . 20 : We usually schedule it for a 21 four-hour block. 22 : For how many days? 23 : One. Just one day. 24 : So, one day, four hours? 25 : Mm-hmm. I would schedule 19 1 everyiiiiiiiiiihat one day, for four hours. 2 : And let's say if somebody 3 missed it, and they came back, they would have 4 to sit throw h that four hours? 5 : Well, once I would tell the 6 SHU lieutenant this person is back, you got to 7 make sure that they complete the training. I'm 8 not sure how he went about doing it with them. 9 Because I didn't attend the training. I never 10 attended the training. I just scheduled it. 11 : Who schedules the trainers? 12 Who picks the trainers and schedules them to 13 teach the class? 14 : Well, any lieutenant can 15 teach training for the Special Housing Unit. 16 During annual refresher training, every year 17 when we do it, it's a lieutenant assigned to do 18 it. 19 : So, normally, it's a 20 lieutenant. So, in this case, if a C.O. missed 21 the training, they come back, the lieutenant 22 can technical) give the full training? 23 : They can. 24 : Okay. And how soon after 25 they come back from training should the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 20 lieutenant ive them a training? : Right away, if they are going to have them in SHU. I would -. I tried my best - because I was the admin lieutenant there for a long time - so, I tried my best to keep up with that, to make sure, as soon as this person came back, they did whatever they needed to do. I : : Okay. : But I can I -- : Yeah. Sure. : -- say something? : Yeah. : Absolutely. Because you had asked me, can a person work in the Special Housing Unit without the training, and like I said, yes, but they shouldn't. However, you had a lot of non- custody staff who weren't required to take this training. Because they weren't in correctional services. people -- But the quarterly bidded : The quarterly bidded people EFTA00117530 21 1 : -- were required. 2 : -- had to do it. 3 : Right. 4 : That was it. 5 : Okay. 6 : Yes. 7 : Do you recall a C.O. by the 8 name of Tova Noel? 9 : Yes. 10 Do you know if in that 11 quarter that - this would be June, July, August 12 of 2019 - if she was one of those C.O.s that 13 bidded for the SHU? 14 : I don't remember. I think 15 she got a relief post in SHU, if I'm not 16 mistaken, and I do remember, she was out for a 17 while because she had injured, I don't know if 18 it was her ankle or something. She was out on 19 workman's comp. So, around that time, when we 20 did the training, she wasn't there. 21 : She wasn't there. 22 : Hmm-mm. 23 : Now -. 24 : Whoa, whoa. So, what 25 happened if she wasn't there? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 : Once she came back, the SHU lieutenant would have gotten with her to get with her to have her take care of it, and have her sign. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. Is this the mandatory quarterly SHU training for 2019? Yes. The dates shows 6/6/2019? Mm-hmm. Is that the -? Yeah. I'm sorry. Yes. Okay. And that is the sign- in sheet? t Yes. : Okay. : So, on the sign-in sheet, it shows different dates on it. Do you know what the would represent? : So, as I said, the difference dates would be because, when we actually had this training, these people probably weren't here. So, once they came back, they had to do the training, and sign that they completed it on the date that they 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 completed it. And for any of these people, did you review the training with me, or was it always the SHU lieutenant that was supposed to review the training with them? : No. I never did the training with them. It was always the SHU lieutenant, or whoever was assigned to SHU at that time. So, with this sign-in sheet, would you, did you give that sign-in sheet to the lieutenant to have them sign, or would you go to the employee themselves and have them si n it? : No. I gave this to the lieutenant. : All right. So, in this instance, we spoke with Tova Noel. She is claiming that you went directly to her with this, and asked her to sign it. Do you recall that? MiNo. : No? : No. I remember speaking to her, and she returned back to work, from her 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 injury, and I told her she had to do the trains m ir Okay. : But I didn't have her sign this. : Do you remember her saying -. So, she returned to work on or around June 24th of 2021. n Mm-hrrim. : The SHU was her quarterly 2019. Sorry. -- sorry. 2019. The SHU was her quarterly bidded post. And she says that, on the 26th, is when she signed, that you came to her directly and said, you have to sign this, and she said she didn't get it from the lieutenant. She got it directly from you. Does that -- No. -- ring a bell at all? No. : All right. We just want to read you some quotes from her transcript. Just to see, you know, what your response is to EFTA00117531 25 26 1 this. We asked her, "Who was your direct 2 su ervisor?" And she said, "Lieutenant 3 ." Would that be accurate? 4 No. 5 : So, you didn't believe 6 that ou were her direct supervisor? 7 : Well, the operations 8 lieutenant on her shift, or the activities 9 lieutenant on her shift was her direct 10 supervisor. 11 Okay. So, that changes 12 every day, but I guess if we had one specific 13 that was a constant, would that be you? 14 : No. She was dealing with me 15 while she was out on workman's comp, because 16 while she was out, I was the one getting her 17 doctor's notes, and calling to check on her, or 18 if she had, like, a CA-7 that needed to be 19 filled out, so she can keep getting paid, I had 20 to fill that out. 21 : Okay. So, while she was 22 out, up until at least the 24th of - lune - 23 2019, that's why she considered you her 24 supervisor, because you were the one dealing 25 directly with her? 1 : I'm assuming. 2 : Okay. 3 : But once she returned to 4 work, whoever that shift lieutenant was, would 5 be who she would deal with. 6 : Okay. So then, we asked, 7 it says - and this is me speaking - "You 8 mentioned you didn't remember ever going to 9 quarterly SHU training. This is a sign-in 10 sheet for quarterly SHU training. I just want 11 you to, is this your signature on there for 12 June 26th, 2019?" And she responds, "You see 13 how I'm the last one on the bottom of all of 14 them?" I say, "Correct." She says, "Because I 15 wasn't at the training when I came in," she 16 responded. "Did they provide it to you one on 17 one, though?" She said, "No." I said, "So, 18 how come?" She said, "Because when I came back 19 from an injury, the lieutenant asked me to sign 20 because when they had program review, they need 21 to show that I received the training. But I 22 never did. She just asked me to sign." 23 "That's why I wonder why, who asked you to do 24 that?" I said. And she said, "Lieutenant 25 27 1 MMm-hrml. 2 : I said, "So, that 3 supervisor you mentioned was your first line 4 supervisor, asked you to sign without providing 5 you the training?" She said, "Yes." I said, 6 "And she didn't, like, provide you anything to 7 review?" She said, "No." And I said, "She 8 didn't go over anything with you?" She said, 9 "No." I said, "Did you discuss this with her, 10 that how can you sign something without being 11 provided the training?" 12 She said, "Well, I just told her I wasn't 13 here. I was out on an injury. She said she 14 knows, but she needed me to sign it because 15 they need it for a program review." I said, 16 "What's her first name?" And she responded, 17 ." I said, "And is she a 18 lieutenant?" And Noel said, "She's a - I don't 19 know what she is now - but she is not at MCC 20 anymore. She's at somewhere in Jersey." So, 21 with all that being said, what is your response 22 to Ms. Noel with her statements to us? 23 • Her statement is partially 24 true. 25 Okay. 28 1 I did explain to her that 2 she needed to complete the training because we 3 had to have it done for our program review. 4 However, I had her do that training with the 5 SHU lieutenant. I would have never had her 6 sign something that she didn't review. And the 7 reason why her name is last on that list is 8 because she came back to work at that time. 9 Okay. So -. 10 rid you ask her to sign the 11 document for the program review, prior to the 12 program review, without her actually taking the 13 trainin ? 14 : No. I explained to her that 15 she had to complete the training because when 16 we had our program review, they review these 17 documents, and that is part of what they call 18 our working papers. And if one person has - or 19 whoever - has it missed, we get a write-up for 20 that. 21 : Did you speak with Lieutenant 22 IIII, and instruct him that, hey, listen, he 23 needs to ive Tova Noel the training? 24 : Yes. 25 : And did he ever confirm with EFTA00117532 29 30 1 you that he did provide it to her? 2 : No. I just got the sign-in 3 sheet back with her name signed. 4 : Oh, so, you didn't give it to 5 her. You ave it to the lieutenant. And -- 6 Yeah. 7 -- the lieutenant got her to 8 sign in, and rovide it back to you? 9 Yes. 10 : So, she is saying you 11 came directly to her. She didn't_ggt any 12 training from either Lieutenant IIII, who was 13 the SHU lieutenant at the time, or provided any 14 kind of sheets to review. She said - and we 15 can go into reater detail of what she said -- 16 : Mm-hmm. 17 : -- but she said that you 18 didn't, when she said this to you, you said, I 19 just need it for the program review, and you 20 asked her not to date it, and she said that she 21 intentionally wanted to date it, to show what 22 date that she did this on. 23 : That's not accurate at all. 24 : Okay. So, please, 25 explain to us. And just for the record, we are 1 not saying that what she said was accurate. 2 That's wh we're asking you -- 3 Mm-hmm. 4 -- to just clarify all of 5 this, of what exactly happened. 6 : No. The only conversation 7 that she and I had, and if I remember 8 correctly, it was on her first day back, if I 9 am not mistaken. Her first day back to work, 10 because she came to me to find out where she 11 was working. And when we had that 12 conversation, I did say to her that she had to 13 complete the training, you know, because we got 14 to make sure we are in line with everything for 15 program review. But I never gave her anything 16 to si n. At all. 17 : So, when she says you 18 specifically gave her this sign-in sheet, you 19 are sa in ou did not? 20 : No. I did not. And I 21 definitel didn't tell her not to date it. 22 : All right. So, when she 23 says that, you know, let's go back and read it. 24 She specifically says, "Because when I came 25 back from an injury, the lieutenant asked me to 31 1 sign because when they had program review, they 2 need to show that I received the training, but 3 I never did. She just asked me to sign." So, 4 her saying that you asked her to sign that, is 5 inaccurate? 6 : Yes, it is. 7 : Okay. And are you 8 confident with that? Because this is, like, an 9 under oath. She was under oath, and you are 10 now under oath. So, now -- 11 aMm-hrrim. 12 : -- we have two 13 discre ancies of what happened. 14 : Yes. I am confident with 15 that. 16 : Do you recall, 17 specifically? Can you place yourself back into 18 that conversation? Do you remember 19 specificall this happening or not happening? 20 : I remember specifically 21 speaking to her about it. And I told her she 22 had to complete the training, but I did not 23 have her si n an thing. 24 : Okay. 25 : I didn't. I did tell her 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 that, after she did the training, she was going to have to sign the sheet. And I told her she had to complete it because of program review. I did do that. Okay. Do you recognize - hold on - this stuff that we are giving you here. Can you just let us know what this information is? And what the sign-in sheet is? Okay. So, this is another sign-in sheet for training. This one would be for the -. was the chief psychologist. So, that would be discussing suicide trainin. • Just -. This is -. • So, that one was suicide prevention training? M I This one was. Yes. : Okay. This is , again, but this is a different training. This was in 2018. : Okay. So, the one that we are on top, though, that is the sign-in for, it says June 6, 2019. And then, again, on the EFTA00117533 33 1 bottom, it sa s T. Noel. 2 Yes. 3 And then, does it have a 4 date next to that one, too? 5 nJune 26. 6 : Okay. So, that was also 7 the June 26, 2019. So, it looks like she had 8 the quarterly, the quarterly post training, or 9 quarterl , what do you call it -- 10 : SHU training. 11 : SHU training. And 12 then, the suicide prevention training, both 13 signed on the same date. 14 aMm-hTm. 15 : Did you give that - 16 either one of those - sign-in sheets directly 17 to Ms. Noel? 18 No. 19 : No. Mi : Because 20 would 21 keep her own sheet. And also, the SHU 22 lieutenant, who completed the training, that 23 person would get a copy of this, as well. And 24 then, when everything was completed, they would 25 give me back the sign-in sheets. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 Okay. So, if this was all completed, if the training was done on June 6, 2019 when you get the sign-in sheets? MEM: Whenever the SHU lieutenant brought them to me. Brought them back to me. : Okay. So, in this case, do you believe it would have been some time shortl after June 6, 2019? : Well, I don't remember that. But I do remember, because these other people who weren't there, they had to do the exact same thing, and the SHU lieutenant got with all of all them, and had them all do their training, and sign for their days. I didn't do any of these eo le's. : Okay. So, and the fact that, when was the - prior to T. Noel - when was the last date on that? • June, it looks the 23rd, and then, June 20th. Okay. So, the two prior were both in the 20s. And you don't believe you went direct to either of those two, either? MI.No. I didn't. : So, do you -- 35 1 I didn't. 2 : -- do you believe that 3 Lieutenant - would it have been Lieutenant 4 that would have provided this to you, when it 5 was all done? 6 : Yes. 7 : Okay. So, he wouldn't 8 have provided that back to you until after June 9 26, 2019 after Noel signed? 10 IIIIIIIIIII: No. Because at the time, if 11 I had this, then the last person before her was 12 June 23rd. So, took care of all of these 13 people, and then, he gave it back to me. I 14 can't remember if he just came back after the 15 6th, when everybody was done, and got it. Or 16 if he came back. Because I kept them in a 17 binder. I keep all of these in a binder, in 18 the admin lieutenant's office. So, all he had 19 to do was just come get the binder. You see 20 what I'm saying? So, he could have came and 21 got it, had them do whatever they needed to do. 22 And the sheet would have already been in the 23 binder. And then, he keeps the copy from III 24 as well. They are supposed to keep a 25 binder in the SHU lieutenant's office, with 36 1 these same forms. 2 : Okay. So, on this 3 specific training, this is, these were the 4 statements that were made, I said, "So, there 5 is another training that you - it says that you 6 conducted on also June 26th, 2019, for SHU 7 suicide prevention training. Did you also not 8 receive that training?" Ms. Noel responded, 9 "Yeah. I didn't." I responded, "You did not 10 receive that training?" She said, "No." I 11 said, "Did you receive -. 12 So, there's slides in the back that show 13 that the training, shows the training and how 14 they conducted it. Did they provide you with 15 those slides?" And she responded, "No because 16 I wasn't there." I said, "You weren't there?" 17 And she responds, "I was out on injury." I 18 said, "Okay. Can you - when were you out on 19 injury? What were the dates?" And she 20 responded, "From March 2019 to I came back in 21 June. So, when I came back in lune, that's 22 when I was told to sign this." Ltgain, is this 23 - you believe it's Lieutenant that 24 actuall y told her to sign it? 25 : It should have been. Yes. EFTA00117534 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 wasn't ou? 37 : Did you -- ies. -- but it was not you? No. : And are you confident it To my recollection, yes. . Okay. Shortly there later, I said, "But when you came back, was it around the 26th when they asked you to sign those?" And she responded, "I came back in June. I don't recall the date exactly." I said, "Okay." She said, "But I remember the day I came back into work, and the lieutenant asked me to go see Lieutenant . And she asked me to sign, and I said, but I wasn't here. I was out on injury. And she said she's aware, but they need me to sign for program review." I said, "Okay." She said, "So, I signed." And I said, "So, both trainings, when you signed, they didn't actually ever provide you anything?" She said, "No." I said, "Verbally? Electronically? Nothing?" She said, "No." I said, "Okay. And that was on the date that was signed that that 38 1 happened?" Ms. Noel said, "Actually, she told 2 me not to date it. 3 I remember when I was signing. She said, 4 don't date it." And I said, "But you dated it 5 anyway? Did you have a conversation about 6 that?" And she said, "No." I said, "After you 7 dated it, she didn't say, why did you date it? 8 Or anything like that?" She responded, "No." 9 So, she is saying all of this time, that 10 specifically, that the lieutenant said to go 11 see you, and that you had her sign this 12 information. 13 : That is not true. 14 : It's not accurate? 15 : No. It's not. And if the 16 lieutenant that was on shift would have told 17 her to come to see me, it was her first day 18 back. So, when they returned to work for a 19 work-related injury, they are supposed to bring 20 in a note from the doctor, clearing them to be 21 back at work. So, she would have came to see 22 me, to give me a copy of that note. Because in 23 order for her to work, she had to have that 24 note from her doctor. 25 Okay. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 is saying - and this is a question I asked - 39 That, and also, too, probably to find out about what her schedule would be, or where she is supposed to be working at. That's the only thing that I could think of. But we did have the conversation about the training. But at no time did I ask her to sin an thing. : Okay. So, what conversation did you have about the training? : I just told her that she needed to complete the training. Because part of her post - if I remember right - it was a relief post. So, I don't think she was assigned to SHU every day. : Now, did you maybe tell her sign this training, sign this form, because I have a program review up. Co do your training. Don't date it because you didn't do the trainin et? : No. I would have never told her to sign it, because she hadn't completed it. And I definitely would not have told her not to date it. Okay. Because again, she 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 "But did you do this per the direction of your supervisor?" She said, "Supervisor, yes." And I said, "So, did she specifically say you must sign this?" Ms. Noel said, "Yes." And I said, "Okay. And iiiiiiithat was ?" And Ms. Noel said, " ." So, she is claiming, under oath, under penalty of, you know, you know, of perjury, which is a criminal offense, which is - a ain - you are under oath. : Mm-hmm. That you specifically told her to sign this. That's where I just wanted -. I don't want to trip up, because this right now is more of an administrative thing. a Mm-hrrim. : I don't want to bring it to a criminal. n Mm-hrrim. : If, you know, under oath, under the penalties of perjury, which is statute 18 USC 1001, false statements, are you confident that you did not ask her to sign this? Yes. I am. EFTA00117535 1 2 3 4 S 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 Okay. So, even though she has her attorneys present when this is happening, and she is specifically sa in throughout all of these questions, • Yes. Because she dealt with me the whole time that she was out of work. And again, like I said, I believe I got her to talk to her on her first day back to work. W Mm-hmm. So, I do not, at no time, ever recall telling her to sign anything, or not date anything. I do remember telling her she had to complete this training, because she was assigned to SHU. If you guys look at these other dates, for all these other people, and I'm just sayin Mm-hmm. -- I know they don't have anything to do with it. They're all the same just like hers. When they came back, the SHU lieutenant got with them - and these are all different dates, same thing - to have them complete this training. I didn't have them do it. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 42 r Okay. re those all SHU employees? Can you verif At the time -- -- at the time. -- yes, they were. • All right. So, if we go and speak with Lieutenant IIII, do you believe he is oin to say, yes, I had her sign this? : I would hope so. Okay. But you are absolutely confident - under oath, again, you could be prosecuted if we find out you are lying - that this, you did not have her sign these documents? : No. I did not have her sign these. I do not recall having her sign these at all. Okay. At all. : And who do you believe had her sin these? : It should have been the SHU lieutenant. Okay. 43 1 : That took care of that. 2 : And again, do you 3 believe, it sounded like you said that the SHU 4 lieutenant could have come into your office, 5 retrieved these documents, and -- 7 Well -- : -- the binder for the sign- 9 : -- had her sign it? 8 6 in sheets for the Special Housing Unit was in 10 my office. Because I kept up with all of 11 these. I maintained all of these forms, just 12 to make sure that everybody stayed up on what 13 it was that they were supposed to do, because 14 when we have our program review, those 15 documents would be reviewed in the office that 16 I worked in. We all were responsible for them. 17 It wasn't just me. My office was opened. 18 Every lieutenant had a key to it. 19 • Mm-hmm. 20 : And I am not at all saying 21 that would have come in my office and 22 taken some something that he shouldn't have 23 taken, or whatever the case ma be. I remember 24 having a conversation with to tell him, 25 when these people come back to work, they need 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 44 to get their SHU training done, because all of these people were out on the 6th, when the trainin occurred. : Okay. And you recall specifically telling Ms. Noel, get the training done? : I recall specifically tellin her she had to do the training. : Okay. But you are positive you didn't have her sign those documents? MiYes. : Okay. : As far as I can recall, yes, sir, I am ositive I didn't. : Okay. Great. So, I guess we'll have to revisit that with Lieutenant IIII. Sorry. I hand it back to you. I just figured it was better for me to read it. Yeah. : Being that I was the one on this transcript. : No problem. It looks like we covered some of them. So, just to clarify, who EFTA00117536 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 45 was responsible to make sure that all employees received the trainings? : You mean for SHU? : For the SHU. Who was responsible to make sure that all the SHU employees received mandatory quarterly SHU trainin ? The SHU lieutenant. : Okay. And me. And me. : You. Because I scheduled it. : Okay. And if they are not - if those employees - are not there, when they come back, who is responsible to make sure that, hey, listen, it's taking - they receive the training? I know you mentioned that you make sure that they come back and sign the sheet. But who actually is supposed to give them the training? : Well, I didn't say that they come back and sign the sheet. I said that, when they come back, they are supposed to complete the training, and then sign the sheet. : Okay. So, and the SHU 46 1 lieutenant is responsible to make sure that 2 they et the training? 3 : Yes. 4 : Okay. 5 : And the administrative 6 lieutenant. However, it's not written 7 anywhere. As the administrative lieutenant, 8 that's just what I did. All administrative 9 lieutenants don't do that. Because SHU is SHU. 10 It belongs to the SHU lieutenant. But because 11 we had gotten a bad rating on our previous 12 reviews, pretty much, they had me maintaining 13 all of our paperwork. So, I kept med trips. I 14 kept rosters. I kept daily security 15 inspections. And whatever paperwork that had 16 to do with correctional services, I was 17 responsible for maintaining it. So, this was 18 something that I just maintained on my own, to 19 make sure that it got done. So that, the 20 department, as a whole, when the time came, 21 wouldiiiiiiiiiiitten up for it. 22 : Is there a possibility that, 23 when Noel came back to work, you told her, hey, 24 listen, sign off on the paperwork of the sign- 25 in sheet, saying that you received the training 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 47 because you are back to work, sign off on it, and have the SHU lieutenant provide you the training? . No. : Is it standard practice for employees to sign the sheet, even if they never received the training? No. It shouldn't be. I don't have them do that. : Has there been instances, that you are aware of, where an employee was signed the sheet, and that employee never received the training? Not that I am aware of. This is the first incident you -? Well, this is the first time I'm even hearing about any of this, with her. Because I knew she came back to work, and she was su osed to have the training. : Do you know if she conducted the training or not? I have no idea. : So, you are not even sure if she did or not? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 48 aA : No. Hmm-mm. : nd being that -. : But when you spoke with her about the need for her to take the training, tell me a little bit more about that conversation. What did she say? : She just said, okay. Noel really didn't talk -. Can I -? Go ahead. • Okay. . Please. Oh, okay. You know, again, this is Noel really didn't talk a lot. To any of us. You know what I'm saying? She would come to work, when she would come to work. And she would do whatever it is that she needed to do, but as far as my interactions with her, it was really only during her times of needing some time off, or scheduling. She may have needed to work a different shift, or whatever the case may be. So, we really never actually had long conversations or anything like that. It was always business, like, as it EFTA00117537 49 1 should be. You know what I'm saying? 2 Supervisor to subordinate. And like I said, 3 when she came in that day, if I remember right, 4 it was her first day back. : That you had a 6 conversation with her? 7 : Yeah. Because she would 8 have had to give me that letter, saying that 9 she was cleared to be back at work. 10 : But during that day, is 11 that when she signed these documents? 12 : I don't know. 13 : Okay. 14 : I'm not sure if it was 15 during that day or not. I talked to her, and I 16 told her she had to complete the SHU training. 17 I do remember saying that to her. 18 : Okay. Now, this is going 19 to be the last part of the transcript that I 20 read, where I said to Ms. Noel, "And what do 21 you - now that you have experience this - what 22 do you blame that on? Do you also blame it on, 23 like, poor management, or, like, the lack of 24 manpower? What are your thoughts on that?" 25 Ms. Noel responded, "It's both, but every time 50 1 something happens, the officers get in trouble. 2 And the problem is, it starts from the top. 3 Because if my supervisor is telling me to 4 falsify documents and I do it, I'm in trouble. 5 But Lieutenant got promoted. You 6 understand? Like, the problem starts from the 7 top, and it comes all the way down." So, she 8 maintained, throughout the entire interview - 9 this is now a e 449 of the interview -- 10 : Mm-hmm. 11 -- this was you. You 12 specifically. So, if you are saying you 100 13 percent didn't do this, why would she say that 14 you were the one? Does she have an axe to 15 grind with ou? Is there something -. 16 : We had no problems with each 17 other, that I'm aware of. But again, we 18 didn't, we didn't have regular interactions 19 with each other. Because when she came to 20 work, she was not on my shift. First of all. 21 When she was at work, she barely ever worked 22 the day shift, if I remember. And I was at 23 work during the day shift. If she had an issue 24 on the shift with anything, she wouldn't have 25 come to me. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 51 She would have went to the operations or the activities lieutenant. She was injured, if I remember, I think it was her ankle, but I'm not sure what it was. But once she got injured, that's really more when our interactions started with each other, because she was out of work for such a long time. But we didn't have any problems with each other whatsoever. So, why do you believe that she would have stated, with such clarity, that you had her sign those documents, as opposed to Lieutenant IIII, who we discussed also, with re arding being the SHU lieutenant? : Probably because I was the first person that spoke to her about it, and when she came back to work. That would be the only thin that I can think of. : Okay. Do you think she took it on herself to, then, sign it? After the conversation with you, as opposed to you actuall h sically handing her the documents? : No. I didn't give her the - That's -- 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 52 : -- the forms to sign. -- right. That's what I'm saying is, like, do you think, in her mind, you said you needed to conduct the SHU training and sign the form, or something to that effect. Then she took it on herself to just go sign the form, without ever actually taking the trainin ? : I couldn't answer that, sir. I'm sorr . I don't know what she was thinking. : Yeah. No. I mean, we just have to -. So, if she is stating this, and if we go to Lieutenant IIII, and he says, I didn't have her sign it, I'm just trying - we're 'List we got to try to, you know -- : Because -- -- as you know, with this there are a ton of different investigation, elements. E : Mm-hmm. Mm-hrmt. : This is just one of many. : But we have to reconcile them. : Mm-hmm. EFTA00117538 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 53 So, you know, all of this will be written up in, like, a, you know, a report and all that. So, it's just one of those things that we have got to make sure that we have, to the best of our ability, a reconciliation for each element, and this has to do with a staff member not receiving the proper training, and also, according to her, being instructed by her supervisor to specifically sign when the supervisor knew that she didn't conduct the training. M Mm-hrra. : So, again, just, I do want to emphasize that this is under oath. So, this would be, like, if you were in a court of law. a: tn-hani. That you are confident with our statements. : Mm-hmm. Yes. I don't - like I said - I don't recall having her sign anythiiIIIIIIIIIII Okay. : Because I wouldn't have done that. I told her she had to complete the 55 these forms, and I had them in the binder. And I do not, at no time, remember telling her to sign anything that she didn't do the training for. : And did she, would she have had the ability to - sorry, the ability - to obtain those sign-in sheets from your binder 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 54 training. Now, once she left my office and once she got up in SHU, and got with the SHU lieutenant, I don't know if the training was ever completed. • Right. I wouldn't know that. • At -- I wouldn't. • -- at the time, though, on lune 26th, 2019, would have this sign-in sheet been in that folder that you referred to? Yes. It would have been in that binder that I had. It should have been, anywa because -- because All right. -- again, once the SHU lieutenant completed the training, and got both of the sheets back from the chief psychologist, then they would bring me the sheets, and then I would put them in the binder. So, these other people that did their training, he had them sign off the sheet that we already have from the 6th. And then, he knew where the binder was. And again, I'm not saying that he did anything at all. IIII, I'm saying. But I kept 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 t : o. : -- and sent them herself? : No. No. She couldn't have done that? No. . So, either yourself or Lieutenant would have had to have actually obtained those sheets, and asked her to sign? Yes. : So, one of the two of you had to have actually had her sign those forms? Yes. : And that just goes back to the confusion of, why would she specifically say you, and - again, throughout - with such clarity, as opposed to Lieutenant .? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 56 I don't know. I do not know. And to be honest with you, if she spoke to about it, and whatever transpired between the two of them, as far as the training is concerned, I don't know. But she did sign that form on her own, and she wasn't forced to do it, and I didn't threaten her with program review. I did explain to her that everybody that was in SHU had to complete that training, so that we wouldn't get written up for program review. And when you had that conversation with her, were either the binder, were those sheets on your desk? No. Not that I -. No. Not that I remember. Okay. So, it wasn't, like, you know, this sheet, this sign-in sheet is here, and you were just having this conversation, like, you know, not telling her sign here, date here, but saying, like, you need to complete this training, and it would be sittin ri ht there for her to sign? : No. I would have told she's back, she got to do the SHU training. EFTA00117539 57 1 Okay. And did she sign 2 either of these training documents that are on 3 the table in our presence? 4 : No. Not that I -. No. Not 5 that I recall, she didn't. No. 6 : Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. 7 ro problem. Now, this 8 trainin takes about four hours? 9 : It's set up for four hours. 10 It doesn't have to be four hours. Maybe the 11 SHU lieutenant can go over everything with him, 12 and then, they will go up to SHU, do shake 13 downs, or whatever. But it's set for a four- 14 hour block, and that's in case somebody comes 15 in lati2/2±,2tever. 16 IIIIIIIIII: But you should at least take 17 two hours, three hours, to go over all the 18 material? 19 : Well, not necessarily. 20 Because if she - and I'm sorry, I said - if she 21 was coming back to work, he could have just had 22 her review the slide show. You know what I'm 23 saying? Everything else, the only thing that 24 is actually required that they do is the slide 25 show. Everything else is kind of just us 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 adding to it. They got to do the slide show. And they're supposed to do the suicide prevention training. And site does the suicide prevention training. : Now, the slide show, would he have manually handed it to her, or is that somethin he would have emailed her? : He wouldn't have to email that to her. She can log in and on her own. It's in the - well, at the time, it was, it's called Blue (Phonetic Sp. *00:46:13) now. The training site for the courses. But I'm not sure, then, if they were using Blue. I think it was just in the G-drive for annual training. Saved in the computer, on the - for annual trainin : On, like, the shared drive? : Yes. They had an annual training folder that had, you know, everything, all of the slide shows and stuff in it. So, the people who would have come back to work, they should have reviewed that, at least, and that would have sufficed for them having the trainiiiiiiiiii : So, that was going to be my 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 next set of questions. I mean, there is one, two, three, four, five, six people that came back. And if the lieutenant had to sit down with them that's quite a bit of them. Il : Mm-hmm. : That he would have to spend doing the trainings all over again. EMI Mm-hmm. :i Is there a possibility he would have said, hey, listen, I'll do it for all the employees, together, when they come back, andlust ushed off to training? : I couldn't -. I don't think so. r No, I would say -- r he would have just handed -- no, it's, they dated it on the date they are saying that they did the till. : Unless they were instructed, hey, sign off on the aprwork, and -. Or do you think Lieutenant actually just sent them an email, or told them go on the shared drive, pull up the slides, and just read it. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 60 1. I don't know. I couldn't -- : Okay. -- answer for what he did. : But that's not something you would instruct them? That would be Lieutenant : Yeah. I don't -. I don't do it at all. I don't do the training for them. Okay. : And who was actually -. So, you said both of you, though, are responsible to ensure that the training was conducted? : Well, it depends, as far as I am concerned, I only was responsible for it because I just made sure it got done. The person who is supposed to make sure it gets done is the SHU lieutenant. =1 Mm-hmm. Who, and that changes quarterly. So, whoever that lieutenant is, or whoever that lieutenant was, that is who would be res onsible for doing the training. : Okay. EFTA00117540 61 62 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 : Based on your education experience, is there anything wrong with employees signing documents, stating they have received training when they have not? : Yeah. They shouldn't do that. That's lying. : lust, is there anything that could go wrong? Like, let's say they didn't receive training, they go in and they are supposed to do their duties as certain way, and they don't do it. Would the training - based on your training and experience, education -- Mm-hmm. -- experience. Mm-hmm. : What could go wrong? If they Noel, that was her first time in go -. Like, the SHU? . No. She had it previously? : She worked up there because she would work overtime sometimes up there. People who work over, like I said before, everybody doesn't get it. It's only the people who are assigned to be up there. And she would 1 work up there, just as a regular workday 2 sometimes, before she went out on her injury. 3 Or sometimes, overtime. So, that wasn't her 4 first time working in SHU. 5 : But her first bid for the 6 SHU, was that a bid for the SHU? Like, where 7 she -. I know she did overtime, and she did, 8 she was assigned. But was she actually 9 assigned to the SHU, prior to this, based on 10 your knowled e? 11 : I don't remember. Because 12 if I can remember when she started, I could 13 probably be able to answer that, but I don't 14 remember when she started. I don't. 15 : Now, on these two 16 trainings - the mandatory quarterly SHU 17 training and the suicide prevention training - 18 are those trainings also covered in the annual 19 refresher training? 20 : They're separate. 21 : But what I mean is, so, 22 this is, it looks like these are separate, but 23 are those topics also covered in annual 24 refresher training? 25 : Yes. They are. 63 1 So, regardless, if she 2 did these specific trainings, would have she 3 had at least taken those trainings during 4 annual refresher training? 5 : Yes. 6 : Okay. So, at least in 7 2019, these trainings would have been conducted 8 by Ms. Noel? 9 : Yes. They should have been. 10 : You know, not these 11 specific ones, but she has already said she 12 didn't take those trainings. 13 14 : But she did take annual 15 refresher training. So, she would have at 16 least received the trainings that were 17 discussed durin those two trainings? 18 : Yes. Annual refresher 19 trainin is at the beginning of the year. 20 : Okay. *00:50:03) 21 : Every year. And I don't 22 remember when she went out on her injury. 23 : In this case, the annual 24 refresher training was around March. 25 Okay. 64 1 : Does that sound right? 2 IMIYeah. Around February or 3 March. Yeah. 4 : Okay. 5 ...But again, I don't remember 6 when she went out on her injury. 7 : The interview said she was 8 off in March. The end of March to June. 9 : Yeah. I'm not sure about 10 it. I'm pretty sure she - you know that she 11 took the annual refresher training. So, just 12 point being, she should have at least been 13 trained on SHU training, as well as suicide 14 prevention? 15 : Yes. 16 : Okay. And if someone 17 doesn't, is out during the annual refresher 18 trainin what happens in those instances? 19 : When they come back to work, 20 they have videos sometimes, and they will video 21 the training for people that missed, or we have 22 makeup days for, if she comes back within that 23 meet of the makeup time, then she will do it 24 then, along with other staff members, who may 25 have missed it, or sometimes, if it's just one EFTA00117541 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 65 or two people, and there wasn't a video for them to watch, then HR will shoot them an email and let them know they got to go on, and log- in, and take a look at the slide shows or whatever the case may be. : Okay. Now, in this instance, it says, do you remember having a conversations with Ms. Noel regarding these trainings? Do you know she needed to do annual refresher training, or if she took it that year? : I don't remember because I don't remember, like, what you guys are saying, she went out around March -- 1.11 Yeah. -- I don't know, because most of the time -- (Indiscernible *00:51:29) her. -- we would start annual training in, like, February, like, the end of January, around February. But I don't remember. She would have been scheduled for it on the daily rosters. On the quarterly rosters. Not quarterly. The daily rosters. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 66 So, I don't remember if she went or not. Because again, like I said, I don't remember when she went out. And it sounds like you did remember her not -. You did remember her needing to do this, though. So, what would make you remember that versus an annual refresher? : No. I don't remember when she went to annual refresher, or if she did. Because this happened when she returned to work from her in 'ur • Mm-hmm. : So, annual refresher training would have happened way, a while before that. So, I guess my point being is, like, you were aware of when she came back from her injury, that she had to do these. So, if she had missed the annual refresher, would you have also been aware that she needed to do the annual refresher training? : Right. But that part of it wouldn't have been me. That would have been HR that would have got with her. Because HR is 67 1 responsible for annual, making sure that 2 everybody completes it. I'm responsible for 3 schedulin ever body to go. 4 : Okay. But in this 5 instance, under these, you are responsible for 6 making sure that they complete the quarterly 7 SHU training and the suicide prevention? 8 : The SHU lieutenant is 9 responsible. All I do is schedule it. 10 Right. But I guess, why 11 would it have then, if he's responsible, why 12 would have you had to have that conversation 13 with Ms. Noel, and she got to make sure that 14 she does that SHU training? 15 : Because when we would 16 schedule the training, when people would be 17 out, as they trickle back in, we have to be 18 cognizant, and make sure that they took the 19 training, and signed for it. Because all of 20 them had to do because it they were signed for 21 it on the uarterl roster. 22 : Okay. So, that just goes 23 back to when you said not only take it, but 24 also si n for it. 25 : Mm-hmm. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 68 How do you ensure that they si n for it? : The SHU lieutenant has them sign for it. When they do this training, I'm not there. He has the sign-in sheets, and he has them sign in that they completed the training on the day that they do the training. Mm-hmm. I just stored the sheets. Okay. In my office. And can you recall any instance where you actually retrieved the sheet and had an employee sign, that they did training? : No. No? So, that's just not somethin ou would do? : No. Because the SHU lieutenant was res onsible for that. Okay. So -. : I just kept up with when they came back to work. You know what I'm saying? And on the time that they came back to work, if they, if it was something that they EFTA00117542 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 69 were missing or whatever, even for, like, firearms training, it's the same thing. When they come back, I will coordinate it with Human Resources, to get them out to the range, so that the can o in SHU. : Okay. But you would never have them sign that they did it? No. : That's for any training? : Any training. : Okay. : Have there been situations where training was not -. Was to be -. Sorry. I will repeat that. Have there been situations where training was to be provided for employees, however, there were no trainers, and an employee never received the training they were su osed to? Not that I am aware of. : So, there is always trainers available? Every lieutenant is an instructor, for what, you know, different things involving correctional services. So, there would never be an instance where there is 70 1 not a trainer. They have -. And even during 2 annual refresher training - excuse me - they 3 have people that come from different 4 departments, that train, you know, on different 5 subjects. And then, they have backup people 6 for those eo le. 7 : So, not -. Should there be a 8 situation where we talk to a C.O. and the C.O. 9 says, yeah, I went to that, I went there, I 10 signed in, I sat there, but no one was ever 11 there to teach us the class, or no one is ever 12 there to - sometimes wasn't there to actually 13 conduct the training, so they never received 14 the trainin . 15 : That shouldn't be an 16 instance. No. 17 : Would that be something that 18 you would be made aware of, if someone -? 19 Let's say you scheduled a trainer to come in 20 and teach the class. Would you be aware if the 21 trainer never showed up, or whether there was a 22 conflict -- 23 : Yes. 24 -- who would be responsible 25 to schedule another trainer? 71 1 Well, Human Resources would. 2 If it was annual training, Human Resources 3 would be responsible for scheduling another 4 trainer to come in. Just like when we have new 5 classes that start, Human Resources does the 6 agenda, the training courses, and they outline 7 who is going to teach what, on what day, what 8 block, what time, and they send that out to us, 9 to all of the instructors, to make sure that we 10 are there. As far as SHU training is 11 concerned, we wouldn't schedule SHU training if 12 there wasn't a SHU lieutenant available to do 13 the SHU training. So -- 14 Okay. 15 : we coordinate it with the 16 SHU lieutenant, to say, okay, the quarter is 17 going to start on this day, what day do you 18 want me to schedule your training? That's what 19 I would do, so that that person knew that they 20 would be there to conduct the training. 21 : And you have never heard of 22 trainers never showing up, or people actually 23 not receivin the training? 24 : No. 25 : Okay. Anything else on the 72 1 trainin ? Because I'm going to jump -- 2 : Yeah. Please do. 3 : -- okay. Did you have any 4 interactions with inmate Jeffrey Epstein during 5 his time at the MCC? 6 : No. 7 ME Were you working during the 8 incident between Epstein and inmate Tartaglione 9 on Jul 23rd, 2019? 10 : The -. 11 : Do you know who Tartaglione 12 is? 13 : That was his roommate in 14 SHU. No. I wasn't. No. Because I normally 15 work the day shift, and I believe that incident 16 in the evening, or the midnight shift, or 17 sometiiiiiiiiii 18 : Okay. What was your 19 understanding about Epstein being required to 20 be housed with a cellmate? Did you know that 21 he was re uired to be housed with a cellmate? 22 : When he came off of watch - 23 suicide watch - the first, that first time 24 then psychology, I believe it was IIIIIIIII, if 25 I remember right, she - they will send us out EFTA00117543 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 73 an email to let us know this inmate is coning off watch, he needs to be celled with a cellmate. : And your understanding is, Mr. E stein had to be celled with a cellmate? : Yes. Now, if it changed, because that was my understanding when he first came off of watch, and if I'm not mistaken, I think it may have been in July, I think it was, I'm not sure, when he came off of watch that first time. But she said he needed to have a Bunkie that - I'm sorry, a roommate - then. Now, after that, I have no idea if that changed. : Do you know who was chosen to be his cellmate? Mr No. I do not. Okay. Anything? Were you workin on Au ust 9th and 10th, 2019? : I don't -. Was that the day of his suicide? : August 10th was when they found him. : Okay. I was in— My dad had had a stroke. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 74 r : I'm sorry. I'm sorry to hear that. And I saw it on TV. That's how I was - I was in his hospital room with him, and I saw it on TV - that's how I found out. : So, you weren't there August 9th and 10th? No. Okay. Do you think Epstein took his own life? a W : Yes, I do. : hy? : Do you have any reason to believe that he didn't take his own life? : That he didn't take his own life? IIE Yeah. No, I don't. : Okay. Do you have -. Are you comfortable with all the answers that you provided today? IIIM.Yes, I am. : Is there anything you would like to revise while we are still on the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 75 record? lallo. : Okay. No, sir. : Is there anything you would like to add that we haven't discussed? No, sir. : Is there anything else that you wanted before? : No. lust ask -- Oh. -- these documents, because we showed them to you, you are not testing what's on it, you are just contesting that these are the documents we showed. Can you initial and put today's date on it? On the top IIE You need -- -- of each document. : Yeah. The top would be great. These two? : No. Well, not this first one, but I think this -. So, some of these can - or some of these, do they go with this? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 76 This is the slide show I was talkin about. : Okay. So, is this suicide, the suicide training, and this one is the SHU quarterly training? Yeah. • Okay. So, if you can just keep with each other. Okay. • And then, yeah, just sign the sign-in sheets on the top, if you don't mind. : Or initial and date. -- initial and today's date is the 27th. So, 10/27/2021. And again, that's just to -. Like, we have to attach it to the record, saying that these are the actual sheets that we reviewed. And if you don't mind -- E : : These two? -- I guess -- Those two, yeah. -- yeah. EFTA00117544 77 1 Okay. : Training, and the slide 3 shows. But those slide shows are for each 4 respective training? 5 : Oh, this is suicide 6 prevention for S ecial Housing Unit. 7 : Right. So that would be 8 this one. Correct? With on the 9 top. 10 This is the same thing. 11 It's just a different -. No, it's not. It's 12 just a different -. This is a different 13 version of this. 14 : Okay. So, they are both 15 suicide prevention. Neither of them are the 16 quarterl SHU trainings? 17 No. 18 . Okay. Great. 19 : This one is the first 20 No. None of -- 21 -- after that. 22 Okay. 23 -- neither one of these is 24 the uarterl SHU training. 25 : Okay. Perfect. Thank 79 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber 78 1 you so much. It is currently 12:25 p.m., on 2 Wednesday, October 27th 2021. This is Senior 3 Special Agent , and I am 4 turning off the recorder. 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00117545