EFTA00117759.pdf

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 TOVA NOEL 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 JUNE 21, 2021 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00117759 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 TOVA NOEL 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 JASON FOY, ESQ. 14 ERIC SARRAGA, ESQ. 15 SERINE GREG 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00117760 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 3 1 MR. : The recorder is on. My 2 name is . I am a Senior 3 Special Agent with the U.S. Department of 4 Justice Office of the Inspector General New 5 York Field Office and these are my credentials. 6 This interview with Federal Bureau of Prisons 7 correctional officer Tova Noel is being 8 conducted as part of an official U.S. 9 Department of Justice Office of the Inspector 10 General investigation. Today's date is June 11 22, 2021 and the time is 10:09 a.m. This 12 interview is being conducted at - what is the 13 location - 15 -? 14 MR. FOY: , Hackensack, 15 New Jersey. 16 MR. : Thank you, sir. 17 MR. FOY: Bergen County Bar Association, 18 second floor conference room. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. FOY: By the way, that was Jason Foy 21 speaking. 22 MR. : Yes. Also present are 23 DOJ OIG Special Agent 24 Correctional officer Tova Noel; Ms. Noel's 25 attorneys, Jason Foy, and Eric Sarraga of Foy & EFTA00117761 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4 1 Seplowitz, LLC; as well as union representative 2 Serine Greg of the Local 3149 with the BOP. 3 This interview will be recorded by me, Senior 4 Special Agent . Could 5 everyone please identify themselves for the 6 record and spell your last name. To start, 7 again, I am DOJ OIG Senior Special Agent 8 9 MR. : I am DOJ OIG Special Agent 10 11 MS. NOEL: I'm Tova Noel, N-O-E-L. 12 MR. FOY: Jason Foy, F-O-Y, attorney for 13 Tova Noel. 14 MR. SARRAGA: Eric Sarraga, S-A-R-R-A-G-A, 15 attorney for Tova Noel. 16 MS. GREGG: Serine Gregg, G-R-E-G-G, Local 17 3148. 18 MR. : Thank you everyone. Ms. 19 Noel, you are here today as a subject in this 20 DOJ OIG investigation. This DOJ OIG 21 investigation concerns your alleged misconduct 22 to include allegations of false statements, job 23 performance failure, security failure, and 24 reporting false information. This is an 25 official DOJ OIG investigation and you are EFTA00117762 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 1 being asked to voluntarily provide answers to 2 our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 3 interview with the DOJ OIG? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Alright. Great. And 6 then everyone that does voluntary interviews 7 with the DOJ we provide them with these 8 voluntary interview forms. I don't know if you 9 guys were sent that at the time, but it says, 10 "United States Department of Justice Office of 11 the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances 12 to Employee Requested to Provide Information on 13 a Voluntary Basis. You are being asked to 14 provide information as part of an investigation 15 being conducted by the Office of the Inspector 16 General. This investigation is being conducted 17 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978 18 as amended. This investigation pertains to 19 your alleged misconduct to include allegations 20 of false statements, job performance failure, 21 security failure, and reporting false 22 information. This is a voluntary interview. 23 Accordingly, you do not have to answer 24 questions. No disciplinary action will be 25 taken against you if you choose not to answer EFTA00117763 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 6 1 questions. Any statement you furnish may be 2 used as evidence in any future criminal 3 proceeding or agency disciplinary proceedings 4 or both. And of course, there's the DPA 5 waiver. I understand the warnings and 6 assurances stated above and I am willing to 7 make a statement or answer questions. No 8 promises or threats have been made to me and no 9 pressure or coercion of any kind has been used 10 against me. You can take a look at this and 11 review it. If you agree, there's a section 12 there for your name and signature. 13 MR. FOY: So the only thing that this is 14 actually subject to is the deferred prosecution 15 agreement. 16 MR. : Well so there's the 17 agreement that you had, so that's the part 18 where I'm talking about the specific part where 19 it says criminal. 20 MR. FOY: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. : That's something I think 22 that was worked out with the U.S. Attorney's 23 Office -- 24 MR. FOY: Right. Exactly. 25 MR. : So -. EFTA00117764 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. FOY: I know there's no sort of 2 protection with regard to the disciplinary 3 internally the administrative thing that -- 4 MR. : Correct. 5 MR. FOY: will happen at some point. 6 But I just wanted to make that clear. But go 7 ahead, you can sign Tova. 8 MR. : Now obviously, that is 9 pursuant to you answering questions truthfully. 10 MR. FOY: Right. Of course. That's the 11 exception to our agreement. 12 MR. : There's a line that says 13 employee signature. 14 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. : Alright. And the rest 16 will be filled out by the two of us. 17 MR. FOY: Okay. 18 MR. : Thank you, sir. 19 MR. FOY: Yep. 20 MR. : And thank you for signing 21 Ms. Noel. Alright. So I'm going to sign where 22 it says signature of the Office of the 23 Inspector General Special Agent. Again, this 24 is I'm printing my name. 25 And Special Agent , can you fill out the EFTA00117765 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 8 1 rest for signature of witness, name of witness, 2 date, time, and place. 3 MR. : This is Agent signing 4 on the signature of witness. 5 MR. : And then do you understand 6 the form as you read and you review? 7 MS. NOEL: Yes, I do. 8 MR. : Great. Thank you. 9 Before starting the interview, I'd like to 10 place you under oath. Can you please raise 11 your right hand? Do you swear to tell the 12 truth and nothing but the truth during this 13 interview? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes, sir. 15 MR. : Thank you, Ma'am. 16 Alright. Please let me know if you do not 17 understand any of my questions. try to 18 rephrase or ask it a different way. 19 MS. NOEL: Okay. 20 MR. : Alright. So this is 21 something we ask everybody. Do you - what's 22 your current home address? 23 MS. NOEL: Bronx, New York 10456. 25 MR. : Thank you. What's your EFTA00117766 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 date of birth? 2 MS. NOEL: 3 MR. : And your last four of 4 your Social Security number. 5 MS. NOEL: 6 MR. : Thank you. What's your 7 highest level of education? 8 MS. NOEL: A bachelor's degree. 9 MR. : And what was your 10 bachelor's degree in? 11 MS. NOEL: Criminal justice (Indiscernible 12 *00:06:14) in law. 13 MR. : And where did you receive 14 that degree from? 15 MS. NOEL: John Jay. 16 MR. : John Jay in New York 17 City? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes, sir. 19 MR. : And when did you 20 graduate? 21 MS. NOEL: 2017. 22 MR. : Thank you. What did you 23 do - just briefly - prior to working with the 24 BOP? 25 MR. : Prior to working with the EFTA00117767 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 BOP I worked at the Post Office. 2 MR. : Okay. What did you do 3 there? 4 MS. NOEL: I was a mail handler. 5 MR. : And for how long? 6 MS. NOEL: Uh, six months. 7 MR. : Six months? 8 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : And that was in 2016, 10 2016? When did you do that? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : 2015 and 2016? 13 MS. NOEL: No. At the post office, I was 14 there 2017. 15 MR. : Oh 2017. 16 MS. NOEL: '16, '17. Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : Oh, okay. And do you 18 have any military service? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : And what is that? 21 MS. NOEL: Military service? 22 MR. : Yeah. Can you tell me 23 what the service? 24 MS. NOEL: The Army. 25 MR. : Army. And how long were EFTA00117768 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 you in the Army? 2 MS. NOEL: Six years. 3 MR. : From when until when? 4 MS. NOEL: 2008 to 2014. 5 MR. : And what did you do with 6 the military? 7 MS. NOEL: I was a patient administrative 8 specialist. 9 MR. : And what is that? 10 MS. NOEL: Patient admin. 11 MR. : Patient as in like a 12 hospital? 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : Okay. So you worked in a 15 hospital. And what was your rank when you left 16 the military? 17 MS. NOEL: E4 Specialist. 18 MR. : And did you leave - were 19 you honorably discharged? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. FOY: Can I - one second real quick? 23 For the post office, you said 16 - 17 but you 24 started MCC in 18. 25 MS. NOEL: Yeah. EFTA00117769 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. FOY: So would it be 17 into 18? 2 MS. NOEL: 18 yeah. 3 MR. : Oh you did start with the 4 BOP in '18? 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : Not in '16? 7 MS. NOEL: No. That was an error in the 8 (Indiscernible *00:07:49). 9 MR. FOY: Right. So it's '18, then she 10 left the Post Office in '17, going to - so I 11 think it's 16 -. No 17 - 18. 12 MS. NOEL: '18 - Mm-hmm. 13 MR. FOY: Post Office. Then MCC. 14 MR. : Okay. And did you work 15 for anybody prior or in between your military 16 service and the post office? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : No? Okay. 19 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 20 MR. : So you were unemployed at 21 that time? 22 MS. NOEL: No I was going to school. 23 MR. : Oh that's when you went 24 to John Jay. 25 MS. NOEL: That's when I was going to John EFTA00117770 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Jay. Yeah. 2 MR. : Okay. Thank you. And 3 when was your Enter on Duty Date with BOP? 4 MS. NOEL: June 24, 2018. 5 MR. : Okay. And when did you 6 graduate from BOP training down at the Federal 7 Law Enforcement Training Center? 8 MS. NOEL: Um, I want to say September of 9 2018. 10 MR. : Okay. But you did 11 graduate from there? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes, I did. 13 MR. : That was a correctional 14 officer training? 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : Alright. And when and 17 where was your first office assignment with the 18 BOP? 19 MS. NOEL: Say that again? 20 MR. : When and where was your 21 first office assignment with the BOP? So where 22 did you start - did you start working in MCC 23 and work there the entire time? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes, sir. 25 MR. : Okay. And what positions EFTA00117771 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 have you held with the BOP? 2 MS. NOEL: Correctional officer. 3 MR. : Okay. The entire time? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes, sir. 5 MR. : Alright. And when you 6 were there last, who did you report to? Who 7 was your direct supervisor? Or did you have 8 one? 9 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 10 MR. : And do you know how to 11 spell that last name? 12 MS. NOEL: 13 MR. : Thank you. What is your 14 current -? Again, this is something we ask 15 everybody. We won't be contacting your client. 16 But what is your current cell phone number? 17 MS. NOEL: 18 MR. : Okay. And how long have 19 you had that number? 20 MS. NOEL: Years. 21 MR. : Years. 22 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : So for a long time. 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : And to include in 2019? EFTA00117772 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. Any other cell 3 phone numbers? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : Okay. And your current 6 email address? 7 MS. NOEL: Um, 8 MR. : Okay. Great. And have 9 you had that one also for years? 10 MS. NOEL: Yes. 11 MR. : Okay. Any others? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : What are the others? 14 MS. NOEL: Uh, 15 MR. : Same? 16 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : You've had that for 18 years? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : Okay. Both in 2019? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : Okay. Thank you. Um, do 23 you have any current -? I should have asked 24 this. Are you currently employed right now? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00117773 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : By no other means? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : Okay. And when did you 4 last work at the MCC? 5 MS. NOEL: August 10, 2019. 6 MR. : And was that the same 7 supervisor that you mentioned? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Okay. Briefly, what 10 training have you attended or conducted during 11 your employment with the BOP? You mentioned 12 the correctional officer training at FLETC. 13 What other trainings have they provided for 14 you? 15 MS. NOEL: Um, their two-week training 16 when you first start at BOP. I forget what 17 it's called. IF training. Yes. 18 MR. : IF training? 19 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : And any other training? 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : Annual refresher 23 training? 24 MS. NOEL: I have one. 25 MR. : Okay. So you've gone to EFTA00117774 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 1 annual. And what about like a SHU training 2 course? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : Okay. But you did - and 5 this is just - you guys can take a look at this 6 if you would like. This is the training that 7 we have for you. That we asked for your list 8 of training. I'm not asking you to necessarily 9 verify that you've conducted all of it, but it 10 shows the last time you did your annual 11 training was on 3/8/2019 was when you actually 12 completed that week of training. 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : Does that sound correct? 15 MS. NOEL: Correct. 16 MR. : Again, this just goes 17 along with it. It shows -. It shows what the 18 syllabus was as well as the sign-in sheet where 19 Ms. Noel signed in. Again, it's - we're not 20 asking to you -. 21 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : For - if you want to take 23 a look at it you can. It just shows that you 24 did that training in March of 2019. And 25 anything that I'm going to provide to you, can EFTA00117775 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 18 1 you just initial and date? And that's just a 2 way for us to verify that that's what we showed 3 you. 4 MS. NOEL: Okay. 5 MR. FOY: Each page or just to top? 6 MR. : Nope, just the top of 7 each page. 8 MR. FOY: Okay. Is (Indiscernible 9 *00:12:34)? 10 MR. : No, you do have that. So 11 just briefly, you don't have to like list off 12 the course syllabus. But what did they cover 13 during that annu7a1 training? 14 MS. NOEL: Um they spoke about different 15 areas like dealing with inmates. They spoke 16 about the issues on the job like dealing with 17 shortages. They spoke about um, basically like 18 mask fitted I remember. 19 MR. : Mask fitting? 20 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. : Was that back in 2019? 22 People were wearing masks as well? 23 MS. NOEL: No like um. 24 MR. FOY: It's for OC's sprays? 25 MR. : Oh, for OC spray. EFTA00117776 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. Did they include 3 things like ethics, standards of conduct? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Okay. What about like 6 counts and rounds? 7 MS. NOEL: I don't recall them talking 8 about counts and rounds. 9 MR. : Okay. So did they go 10 over like MCC policies and guidance? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. And did they ever 13 provide you with the policies and guidelines or 14 did they just speak to you about it? 15 MS. NOEL: For in this training? 16 MR. : Yes. 17 MS. NOEL: They just spoke about it. 18 MR. : At another time did they 19 provide you with the polices and guidelines? 20 MS. NOEL: Yeah. It's on like the 21 computer. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MS. NOEL: The -. 24 MR. : Do you have to certify 25 that you've like received it and you reviewed EFTA00117777 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 it? Polices and guidelines? 2 MS. NOEL: I think I signed that like you 3 receive it. 4 MR. : Right. Okay. If you 5 don't mind, just -. 6 MR. FOY: You want it in the lower right? 7 MR. : Doesn't matter. Top or 8 bottom. You know wherever there's room. I 9 typically do top, but bottom is totally fine. 10 MR. FOY: This one, that one. 11 MR. : Today's date is June 22nd. 12 MR. FOY: That's part of the same 13 document. 14 MS. NOEL: Hm. 15 MR. FOY: And just the top page. 16 MR. : And now you mentioned 17 that you didn't quite remember them going over 18 training when conducting counts and rounds in 19 this training. Did you - were you - did you 20 ever receive training on conducting counts and 21 rounds? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. When would that 24 have been? 25 MS. NOEL: In an IF training. EFTA00117778 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 1 MR. : And what does IF stand 2 for? 3 MS. NOEL: Hm. 4 MS. : You want some clarity? I can 5 tell you -- 6 MR. : Sure. 7 MS. : -- just what it stands for. 8 Institution Familiarization training. 9 MR. : Okay. Great. And that's 10 something that the MCC provided directly? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. Great. And then 13 you had mentioned - did you ever receive 14 policies on counts and rounds? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : I know you said you 17 certified. Do you remember that specific 18 policy - like receiving that? 19 MS. NOEL: Like specifically on counts and 20 rounds? 21 MR. : I'm not asking you to 22 like verbatim tell me what it was. I'm just 23 saying like were you provided and you reviewed 24 it. DO you remember? 25 MS. NOEL: Not specifically on counts and EFTA00117779 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 rounds. Just like a general - 2 MR. : Right. 3 MS. NOEL: Like -. 4 MR. : Like you know the housing 5 orders or unit policies and things like that. 6 When you're supposed to conduct counts, when 7 you're supposed to do rounds, that type of 8 thing. 9 MR. : The post orders. 10 MR. : Post orders. Right. 11 Okay. Great. You mentioned you didn't 12 remember ever going to quarterly SHU training. 13 This is a sign-in sheet for quarterly SHU 14 training. I just want to -. Is this your 15 signature on there for June 26, 2019? 16 MS. NOEL: You see how I'm the last one on 17 the bottom of all of them? 18 MR. : Correct. 19 MS. NOEL: Because I wasn't at the 20 training when I came -. 21 MR. : Did they provide it to 22 you one-on-one though? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : So how come -? 25 MS. NOEL: Because when I came back from EFTA00117780 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 an injury, the lieutenant asked me to sign 2 because when they had program review, they need 3 to show that I received the training. But I 4 never did. She just asked me to sign. That's 5 why I wonder why. 6 MR. : Who asked you to do that? 7 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 8 MR. : So that supervisor you 9 mentioned was your first line supervisor asked 10 you sign without providing you the training? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : And she didn't' like 13 provide you anything to review? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : She didn't go over 16 anything with you? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Did you discuss this with 19 her - that how can you sign something without 20 being provided the training? 21 MS. NOEL: Well I just told her I wasn't 22 here. I was out on an injury. She said she 23 knows but she needed me to sign it because they 24 need it for program review. 25 MR. : What's her first name? EFTA00117781 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 MS. NOEL: 2 MR. : And is she a lieutenant? 3 MS. NOEL: She's a - I don't know what she 4 is now. But she's not at MCC anymore. She's 5 at somewhere in Jersey. 6 MS. : I'm sorry. Before you go, are 7 you done with that question? 8 MR. : Actually, let me um, I 9 didn't do this. 10 MS. : Because I want to 11 (Indiscernible *00:17:14) 12 MR. : And I did forget to do 13 this. There's an advisory to the union 14 representative. 15 MS. : Mm-hmm. 16 MR. : Can you review this? And 17 I do apologize. But since you're speaking up a 18 little bit, let me hand this to you. and then 19 you can review that. And then if you want to 20 just take a look. After you're done reviewing, 21 you may sign it if you agree. 22 MS. : Will you be able to give me a 23 copy of it? 24 MR. : Yes. I think it says on 25 there that we will forward you a copy of that. EFTA00117782 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 1 MS. : I didn't even see that part. 2 MR. : Should I continue asking 3 questions while she's reviewing that or do you 4 want to wait? 5 MR. FOY: Yeah, you can ask questions. 6 Absolutely. 7 MR. : Sure. So there's another 8 training that you - it says that you conducted 9 on also June 26, 2019 for SHU suicide 10 prevention training. Did you also not receive 11 that training? 12 MS. NOEL: Yeah. I didn't. 13 MR. : You did not receive that 14 training? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : Did you receive - so 17 there's slides in the back that shows the 18 training and how they conducted it. Did they 19 provide you with those slides? 20 MS. NOEL: No because I wasn't there. 21 MR. : You weren't there? 22 MS. NOEL: I was out on an injury. 23 MR. : Okay. Can you -? When 24 were you out on the injury? What are the 25 dates? EFTA00117783 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 1 MS. NOEL: From March 2019 to - I came 2 back in June. So when I came back in June, 3 that's when I was told to sign this. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : Alright. Thank you for 7 signing the Advisory to Union Representative. 8 MS. : I signed it (Indiscernible 9 *00:19:02). 10 MR. : I am just going to sign 11 that form as name of OIG special agent. Again, 12 I do apologize for not providing that up front. 13 MS. : So I just -. 14 MR. : I'm sorry, what was your 15 question? 16 MS. NOEL: I want to call because 17 (Indiscernible *00:19:15) I'm just saying that 18 well I know that the dynamics are that I should 19 interrupt you in the middle of a question. But 20 interrupt her answering a question. So I was 21 asking were you done because I wanted to just 22 step out for just one second. 23 MR. : You want to step out? 24 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : Okay. We don't want to EFTA00117784 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 1 interrupt the interview because we have a lot 2 of questions to get through. 3 MS. : Mm-hmm. 4 MR. : If the attorneys ask 5 that, that's not really But if you would 6 like to -. 7 MS. : So based on the agreement we 8 just signed, right? 9 MR. : Sure. 10 MS. : It acknowledges the right to 11 have me representing her. And part of those 12 rights are the ability to assist in 13 representing her. Right? And so I don't want 14 to dispute and I don't want to hold up the 15 process at all. I just want to say something 16 to her. 17 MR. : Sure. let that - 18 do that this time, but if this continues 19 to happen, I'm going to have to give you a 20 different form that says you can stay here 21 voluntarily if you want, but we're going to ask 22 you not to interrupt the interview. And if you 23 do, then we're going to ask her if she wants to 24 continue with the interview without you. 25 MS. : So but that form says EFTA00117785 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 something contrary to what you're saying. 2 MR. : I'm going to give you a 3 different form that says that I'm going to let 4 you interrupt the interview now to talk to her 5 out there. And if you do it again, I'm going 6 to ask that you not be here any longer so that 7 we can continue with the interview. Obviously, 8 her attorneys would stay here. So I just want 9 to make sure that we don't just continue. 10 MS. : I just need clarity then. I 11 need clarity. 12 MR. : Sure. 13 MS. : So the representing of and 14 talking to the employee who I have the right to 15 represent is considered by you an interruption 16 of the interview? 17 MR. : We haven't even gotten 18 into the questions yet. So -. 19 MS. : Well -. 20 MR. : -- yes, we need to 21 continue with the interview. But we're now -. 22 I can allow you to do that now. I'm just not 23 going to be able to allow you to continue to 24 stop the interview and leave the room. 25 MS. : I'm just asking for clarity EFTA00117786 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 right. So it was kind of -. 2 MR. : Sure. Absolutely. 3 MS. : And I don't mean to be 4 difficult. It kind of was a yes or no. So 5 you're saying to me based on the document that 6 I signed -. 7 MR. : I'm saying that you can 8 assist her. 9 MS. : I didn't get to -. 10 MR. : Sure. Go ahead. 11 MS. : Okay. So you're saying based 12 on the document that I signed, in my right to 13 represent the employee, which is asking to 14 caucus and say something to Ms. Noel is 15 interrupting the interview even though I have 16 the right to do so based on the document I 17 signed? 18 MR. : It's more for her to be 19 able to ask you for a question. 20 MS. : So it's just a yes or no. 21 MR. : Oh, no-no. I'm the one 22 that's leading the interview here. So if she 23 stops and asks you for clarity, absolutely. 24 You stopping to inform her? No. 25 MS. : I never identified to you that EFTA00117787 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 I would be informing her of anything. 2 MR. : Okay. But so yes. To 3 answer your question, you can be here to 4 represent here if she's asking you for the 5 information. I don't want you stopping gout 6 interview. 7 MS. : Mm-hmm. 8 MR. : And then asking to leave 9 the room. I'm going to allow that this time. 10 After that, I will consider that an 11 interruption of the interview. 12 MS. : Mm-hmm. 13 MR. : And then have to 14 proceed from there. And then there's a 15 different form to provide you. So does that 16 make sense? 17 MS. : No it doesn't. 18 MR. : Okay. So I'm asking you 19 not to interrupt -. 20 MS. : Wait. It doesn't make sense 21 but I'm not - that was -. 22 MR. : So I'm asking you not to 23 interrupt the interview. She may defer to you 24 and ask you for questions. 25 MS. : Mm-hmm. EFTA00117788 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 1 MR. : I'm asking you not to 2 interrupt my questions. 3 MS. : Okay. It doesn't make sense 4 to me. What I'm interpreting is my ability to 5 represent is only if the employee asks a 6 question that's what you're saying to me. 7 MR. : Correct. So her 8 attorneys are here. 9 MS. : I got it. I got it. 10 MR. : Her attorneys are here. 11 I'm asking if she has a question for her union 12 representative 13 MS. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. : -- she may at any time 15 ask you. 16 MS. : I got it. 17 MR. : I'm asking you not to 18 interrupt. 19 MS. : I got it. 20 MR. : These questions are not 21 for you. 22 MS. : Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : They're not directed at 24 you. 25 MS. : Mm-hmm. EFTA00117789 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 1 MR. : They're directed at Mrs. 2 Noel. 3 MS. : I'm not answering questions. 4 I was just trying to -. I'm representing her. 5 But I understand that there has been a 6 determination of how I'm able to represent. 7 And so deal with that in a different 8 venue. You can move forward. 9 MR. : Alright. Let me read 10 this real quick in this paperwork so that we're 11 not going to have any disputes. 12 MS. : We don't have to. You don't 13 have to continue. Right. Because I don't want 14 to interrupt. So you can go on ahead and move 15 forward. 16 MR. : Okay. So it just says 17 that you may not attempt to answer the 18 questions. 19 MS. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : Or dictate the employee's 21 actions to question or otherwise take charge of 22 proceedings. 23 MS. : Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : But again, please feel 25 free to go confer with Ms. Noel. EFTA00117790 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 33 1 MS. : I appreciate it. Thank you. 2 MR. : I am going to paus the 3 recording. It is currently 10:32 a.m. 4 [Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off 5 the record and went back on the record.] Okay. 6 The recorder is back on. It is 10:38 a.m. 7 Tuesday, June 22, 2021. This is Senior Special 8 Agent We're resuming the 9 interview. Ms. Noel I just remind you that you 10 are under oath and this is a voluntary 11 interview. I'm sorry. What was your question? 12 MS. : You need me to initial 13 (Indiscernible *00:24:24)? 14 MR. : If you don't mind. And 15 again, it's just to show that you know, what we 16 are looking at. 17 MS. : Okay. 18 MR. : Now since we took that 19 break, is there anything else we want to 20 discuss or -? 21 MS. : No, we can move forward. 22 MS. NOEL: No, thank you. 23 MR. : Thank you again very much 24 for your cooperation with this matter. Is 25 there anything else you wanted to -? No? EFTA00117791 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 1 Alright. DO you know where we left off 2 What was the last question that we asked? 3 MR. : It was what we asked for 4 (Indiscernible *00:24:53) about the injuries. 5 MR. : Okay. So you were 6 telling us you said March through June you were 7 injured? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : And you were not actually 10 working during that time? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Do you remember around 13 when in March and when did it end? Was it the 14 beginning of March, end of March, middle? 15 MS. NOEL: Um I'm not sure. I just know 16 it was March. 17 MR. : Sometime in March? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : But when you came back, 20 was it around the 26th when they asked you to 21 sign those? 22 MS. NOEL: I came back in June. I don't 23 recall the date exactly. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS. NOEL: But I remember the day I came EFTA00117792 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 into work and the lieutenant asked me to go see 2 Lieutenant And she asked me to sign 3 and I said but I wasn't here. I was out on an 4 injury. And she said she's aware but they need 5 me to sign it for program review. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. NOEL: So I signed. 8 MR. : So both trainings when 9 you signed, they didn't actually even provide 10 you anything? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Verbally? 13 Electronically? Nothing? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : Okay. And that was on 16 the date that was signed that that happened? 17 MS. NOEL: Actually she told me not to 18 date it. I remember when I was signing, she 19 said don't date it. 20 MR. : But you dated it anyway? 21 Did you have a conversation about that? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : After you dated it, she 24 didn't say why did you date it or anything like 25 that? EFTA00117793 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Okay. Did you receive 3 that training though in the annual training 4 courses as well? Like the suicide prevention 5 or the - you know how to operate in the SHU 6 during MCC annual? Or the - I think you call 7 it the IF training? Or during the correctional 8 officer training at FLETC? 9 MS. NOEL: Those trainings are like 10 general overall training. It's not 11 specifically speaking about SHU. Like SHU may 12 come up in the conversations, but it's not 13 specific to SHU or how to operate or run the 14 SHU. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : Do you know if they were 18 doing this with other employees as well? 19 Having them sign training that they weren't 20 actually conducting? 21 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 22 MR. : Okay. But did you do 23 this per the direction of your supervisor? 24 MS. NOEL: Supervisor. Yes. 25 MR. : So she - did she EFTA00117794 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 specifically you must sign this? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. And again, that 4 was 5 MS. NOEL: 6 MR. And you said - 7 and I apologize. I don't know if we were 8 interrupted when Where did you say she is 9 currently? 10 MS. NOEL: She is in Jersey I know. I'm 11 trying to -. 12 MR. : At the FCI Fort Dix? 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. FOY: Question real quick. 16 MR. : Absolutely. Do you want 17 a more precise answer to when she was out and 18 when she came back? 19 MR. : Uh, so far -. 20 MR. FOY: Because I happen to know -- 21 MR. : Oh sure. If you'd like. 22 MR. FOY: -- the approximate dates. 23 MR. : Sure. You can provide 24 that. 25 MR. FOY: And this is based on my review EFTA00117795 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 38 1 of discovery and conversations with Ms. Noel. 2 We're looking at about March 15 to June 24-ish. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. FOY: And I note that the execution 5 was on the 26th. But I think there was some 6 time, you know, it's not like the first minute 7 she was there they had her sign the document. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. NOEL: Right. 10 MR. FOY: So those are the estimated 11 times. I could be off by a day or two, but 12 MR. : Perfect. 13 MR. FOY: The 15th of March to June 24th. 14 MR. : And thank you attorney 15 Foy. 16 MR. FOY: No problem. 17 MR. : During your time at the 18 MCC, how often were you assigned to the special 19 housing unit also known as the SHU? 20 MS. NOEL: Mm. 21 MR. : And this is an 22 approximate. I'm not asking you for like exact 23 amount. 24 MS. NOEL: When I came back from the 25 injury, my assignment was the SHU. So from EFTA00117796 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 39 1 June 20-whatever to August 10th, I worked the 2 SHU. 3 MR. : Okay. And that was your 4 quarterly assignment was in the SHU from - for 5 that whole summer -- 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : -- in 2019? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Okay. Thank you. So 10 know that you said that you didn't - they 11 didn't provide you with the SHU training. Did 12 they provide you with the policies of the SHU? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : So you never received 15 those policies? Would it have been when you 16 received and you said you had to initial and 17 date something electronically? I think you 18 said when you provided -? 19 MS. NOEL: That's the employee code of 20 conduct. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. NOEL: That's the - like the handbook 23 that's online. 24 MR. : Should have they provided 25 you with the polices and post orders in the EFTA00117797 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 SHU? 2 MS. NOEL: In the SHU there is post 3 orders. 4 MR. : Oh, okay. So in the SHU 5 there's the post orders. 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : And were you provided a 8 copy of that to review? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : And had you reviewed 11 that? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. And when did you 14 review that? 15 MS. NOEL: When I came back. 16 MR. : So sometime in that June 17 18 MS. NOEL: So in June. 19 MR. : -- or July timeframe? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. So aside from hose 22 post orders, did you receive any other SHU 23 training? 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : No. And who was EFTA00117798 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 41 1 responsible for making sure that you actually 2 did receive SHU training? 3 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 4 MR. : You don't know was that a 5 lieutenant issue -- 6 MS. NOEL: I assumed -. 7 MR. : -- or your first line 8 supervisor? 9 MS. NOEL: I would assume the lieutenant. 10 My supervisor. I don't know. 11 MR. : And when you say the 12 lieutenant, who was the lieutenant in the SHU 13 at the time? 14 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 15 MR. -: . Do you know his 16 first name? 17 MS. NOEL: 18 MR. : Okay. And would he be 19 responsible for making sure that you were 20 training when you were in the SHU? 21 MS. NOEL: I mean, I'm going to direct 22 that question to her. I don't know. 23 MR. : I don't want you to 24 direct a question to her. 25 MS. NOEL: Okay. EFTA00117799 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 1 MR. : But if you need to like, 2 yeah, that's fine. 3 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 4 MR. : And if you don't know, 5 that's totally acceptable. 6 MS. NOEL: Yeah because I don't know. 7 MR. : Okay. No-no, that's a 8 totally acceptable answer. 9 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 10 MR. : So yeah, if you know - 11 you don't know something or you do know 12 something, that's great. You don't really want 13 to ask other people for the answers. 14 MS. NOEL: Right. 15 MR. : You know, obviously if 16 you need to confer, and you know with your 17 attorneys or your union representative, 18 absolutely fine. But we just want to try to 19 get away from them answering for you. 20 MS. NOEL: Okay. 21 MR. : Alright. And then from 22 your recollection though, you don't remember 23 receiving SHU training during the annual 24 refresher training? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00117800 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : No. Okay. Did you 2 receive training on how to conduct rounds? 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : And when was that? 5 MS. NOEL: In IF. 6 MR. : In IF? 7 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 8 MR. : Okay. And what did it 9 teach you about conducting rounds? 10 MS. NOEL: That you need two people to 11 count and conduct rounds. And one person goes 12 and counts. The other person goes and counts. 13 And then you confirm the numbers of counting. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MS. NOEL: And make sure when you're 16 counting that you're counting everybody's 17 standing at their bed when you're counting. 18 MR. : Okay. And did you 19 receive suicide prevention training during the 20 MCC annual refresher training? 21 MS. NOEL: I don't recall. 22 MR. : You don't recall. 23 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Okay. What was your 25 understanding if an inmate was placed, you EFTA00117801 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 1 know, is suicidal or placed on suicide watch? 2 What was your understanding of how you should 3 treat those inmates? 4 MS. NOEL: If an inmate is placed on 5 suicide watch, I don't deal with them. They go 6 downstairs to suicide watch and they're being 7 watched by other inmates. 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. 9 MS. NOEL: But and then when they're 10 cleared, they come back to the unit. 11 MR. : And are you trained - are 12 you supposed to handle them differently when 13 they come back to the unit? 14 MS. NOEL: Uh, no. 15 MR. : You're not? 16 MS. NOEL: You're not. 17 MR. : You're not supposed to 18 handle them differently? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Not at all? 21 MS. NOEL: Because they're cleared to come 22 back. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MS. NOEL: So once you're cleared, you're 25 back to normal. EFTA00117802 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. And were you 2 assigned to the SHU on August 9th and 10th of 3 2019? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Do you recall what time 6 you began working on the SHU on August 9th? 7 MS. NOEL: 4:00 to midnight. 8 MR. : Four to midnight. And 9 then on August 10th? It was? 10 MS. NOEL: Midnight to eight in the 11 morning. 12 MR. : Okay. You said, again, 13 that was your quarterly bidded post. 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : Quarterly assignment. 16 And what were your overall duties and 17 responsibilities when you were assigned to the 18 SHU? 19 MS. NOEL: It varies because I'm new and 20 because I don't know how to run the SHU. I 21 just always rely on the senior person that I'm 22 working with. So even if the roster reflects 23 that I'm the senior officer, because sometimes 24 I'm assigned SHU I, I don't do what SHU I is 25 supposed to do because I don't know how to do EFTA00117803 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 it. I rely on the senior officer that I'm 2 working with. 3 MR. : Okay. So you didn't 4 really know what your duties and 5 responsibilities were? Is that what you're 6 saying? 7 MS. NOEL: In the SHU like um, to give out 8 food, to collect the trays, to give out linen, 9 collect linen. Whenever we would go down range 10 to give out those, we count that as a round to 11 make sure the inmates are good. You shower I 12 think every other day. Count, that's it. 13 MR. : So rounds and counts are 14 a part of that though? 15 MS. NOEL: Rounds and counts are a part of 16 it. But I've never worked in the SHU and 17 actually done rounds every 30 minutes. We go 18 down range to do stuff and we count it as a 19 round. 20 MR. : Perfect. And that's 21 going to be something that we're going to 22 discuss. 23 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : And ask you things like 25 who told you that and houses that, you know who EFTA00117804 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 should have provided you with the proper 2 training and information on how it was 3 technically supposed to be done. 4 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : And were there any 6 requirements - special requirements - for 7 inmates who are assigned to the SHU? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 9 MR. : That's fine. Do inmates 10 in the SHU have cellmates? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. And are they 13 required to have cellmates? 14 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 15 MR. : You're not sure? 16 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 17 MR. : Are there any inmates 18 that don't have cellmates? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : And do you know why they 21 wouldn't have cellmates? 22 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 23 MR. : Did you ever - were you 24 ever told it's because another inmate could 25 harm that inmate? Or there were certain EFTA00117805 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 classifications of an inmate? They never 2 discussed that with you? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : No? Okay. Did you ever 5 see training on medical emergencies? With 6 inmates? 7 MS. NOEL: Mm. No. I just know like if 8 you are making a round and something happens to 9 an inmate, you call and you wait for somebody 10 to come before you enter the cell. That's all 11 I know. 12 MR. : Okay. But did you - were 13 you provided like CPR training or any kind of 14 like you know, if something were to happen in 15 front of you how you would respond? 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. We also need bare 17 training. (Phonetic Sp. *00:35:08) 18 MR. : Okay. And when would you 19 conduct training like that CPR training or you 20 know if someone is trying to kill themselves or 21 something like that. When did you receive that 22 training? How you would respond to a medical 23 emergency? 24 MS. NOEL: That was in IF. 25 MR. : IF as well? EFTA00117806 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : Okay. So who is or was 3 Inmate Jeffrey Epstein? Reg number 76318-054? 4 MS. NOEL: Who was he? 5 MR. : Who was he? Was he an 6 inmate assigned to the MCC? 7 MS. NOEL: Yes. 8 MR. : Was he assigned to the 9 SHU? 10 MS. NOEL: Yes. 11 MR. : Okay. Do you know what 12 he was at the MCC for and why he was 13 incarcerated by the BOP? 14 MS. NOEL: Actually I didn't even know who 15 he was when I worked with him. It was the 16 other coworker that told me who he was. I 17 didn't know who he was. 18 MR. : And who -? 19 MS. NOEL: As in I knew his name but 20 didn't know like what he was there for and who 21 he actually was. 22 MR. : So and when you say the 23 other coworker told you, who told you? 24 MS. NOEL: 25 MR. -: EFTA00117807 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 1 MS. NOEL: Uh-huh. 2 MR. : And what is first 3 name? 4 MS. NOEL: 5 MR. 6 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. : And what did he inform 8 you? 9 MS. NOEL: He basically said that this is 10 Jeffrey Epstein. You don't know who he is? 11 And I said no. And he was like he's in the 12 news every day. And I was like okay. I didn't 13 know. 14 MR. : Do you remember when you 15 had that conversation? Like at least if you 16 think about August 9th, August 10th? 17 MS. NOEL: Mm. No. 18 MR. : Was it obviously it was 19 then prior to August 9th? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. But you were 22 working in the SHU together? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : Okay. Was Epstein in the 25 SHU when you had that conversation? EFTA00117808 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Never. 2 MR. : No. Was he with his 3 attorneys? 4 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : Okay. Do you remember 6 anything else about that conversation when he 7 told you about him? 8 MS. NOEL: No. That was it. 9 MR. : Did he tell you why he 10 was in? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : No? Just that he was 13 famous and in the SHU? 14 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. : Okay. Why was - do you 16 know why Epstein was assigned to the SHU? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Did anyone ever tell you 19 it was because he was a risk for suicide or 20 safety concerns? 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : No? We're going to get 23 into this a little later, but do you know what 24 the hotlist is? 25 MS. NOEL: Um.... Are those -? I think EFTA00117809 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 1 the hotlist is like um, how should I say, like 2 inmates that are like -. Inmates that are like 3 4 MR. : I'm just going to show 5 you this and ask you if you ever received this 6 training either. 7 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 8 MR. : Or if you've ever seen 9 it. This will spell out exactly what the 10 hotlist is. 11 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 12 MR. : So this is the MCC New 13 York special housing unit. Slides. 14 (Indiscernible *00:38:01) 15 MR. : Oh sorry. 16 MR. : This one is special 17 housing unit management suicide prevention. 18 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 19 MR. : So can you just have - 20 there's two different tabs here which -- 21 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : -- the first one is going 23 to say just read it for the record. 24 SHU hotlist identifies inmates with mental 25 health conditions who may become dangerous, EFTA00117810 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 53 1 self-destructive, or suicidal when placed into 2 the SHU. 3 MS. NOEL: Hm. 4 MR. : And that - did you know 5 that? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : So do you know what I'm 8 talking about when I say hotlist? There was a 9 list in the SHU of 10 MS. NOEL: No. I actually thought that 11 the hotlist was something else. Like that was 12 on the computer. No. I don't know that. 13 MR. : Okay. And then it talks 14 about when someone is on the hotlist, it's 15 supposed to be a special notation on the 16 hotlist, a special notation on the cell door, 17 and there's also a special notation on the SHU 18 board. 19 MS. NOEL: Mm. There was never none of 20 that. 21 MR. : So did you ever -? Can 22 you just take a look quickly? You don't have 23 to look through that. Just basically the 24 MR. : The two tabs. 25 MR. : -- two tabs as well as EFTA00117811 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 the front. 2 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : Was that ever provided to 4 you? Did you ever see this? 5 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. No. 6 MR. : No. Okay. 7 MR. FOY: Do you want her to initial? 8 MR. : If you could. Yeah. 9 Just so that we can -. You can do it on the 10 top page. No-no. Sorry. The front page. 11 MR. : ON the front page. 12 MR. FOY: Just the first page. 13 MS. NOEL: Oh. 14 MR. : And do you know who would 15 have been required to provide you that -- 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : -- information? No? And 18 no one discussed that with you? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Did anyone ever discuss 21 the hotlist with you? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : Had you ever heard of the 24 term hotlist? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00117812 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 1 MR. : You never even heard the 2 term? 3 MS. NOEL: I thought that hotlist was like 4 inmates that were like, Like the 5 inmates that were up on 10 South. Like those 6 high inmates. Like El Chapo and those type of 7 inmates. 8 MR. : Sure. 9 MS. NOEL: That's what I though hotlist 10 was. 11 MR. : Okay. And because you 12 brought up 10 South, what's 10 South? 13 MS. NOEL: The level above the SHU. 14 MR. : And is that a specialized 15 unit that are even more secure than the SHU? 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : And can you just explain 18 to me a little bit about who goes there? What 19 the cell makeup is? Are there cameras in each 20 individual cell? 21 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 22 MR. : Oh, you don't know? 23 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 24 MR. : Okay. Are inmates that 25 are in those cells only one inmate per cell? EFTA00117813 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: I think so. 2 MR. : And are they monitored 3 24/7? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Okay. But you don't know 6 how they're monitored? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Okay. But they're for 9 like a terrorist, high-profile, drugs -. 10 MS. NOEL: Yes. 11 MR. : You know? 12 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. : Okay. And that's one 14 floor above where the SHU is? 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : Is it kind of in the 17 general location of the SHU though? 18 MS. NOEL: It's upstairs. 19 MR. : Can you get to it through 20 the SHU? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : And would it be 23 considered as - I know it's 10 South and it's 24 unique. But is it also part of the general 25 SHU? EFTA00117814 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 57 1 MS. NOEL: I mean when you come into the 2 SHU, you go up the stairs and it's right there. 3 MR. : Okay. Can you get to it 4 by other means? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : So you have to go thought 7 the SHU -- 8 MS. NOEL: Go through the SHU. 9 MR. : -- to get -- 10 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 11 MR. into it? Okay. And 12 how many correctional officers are placed in 13 the 10 South? 14 MS. NOEL: Um, one. 15 MR. : One? 16 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : And there's no way in or 18 out other than through the SHU? 19 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. Thought the SHU. 20 MR. : Okay. So when they come 21 in and out, do the officers that are working in 22 the SHU - you know where you are working - are 23 you the ones that have to allow them to get in 24 and out of the SHU? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00117815 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 58 1 MR. : Okay. Do you recall who 2 was working on 10 South on August 9th or 10th? 3 MS. NOEL: 4 MR. ? 5 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : Okay. Was that August 7 9th or 10th or both? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't know about the 9th but 9 the 10th. 10 MR. : That's fine. And some of 11 this stuff probably at some point give you 12 a list of the people so you can refer to like 13 the roster so you don't have to 14 MS. NOEL: Okay. 15 MR. : You know you can recall 16 that way if you remember that those people were 17 in (Indiscernible *00:41:35). 18 MS. NOEL: Okay. 19 MR. : But you did say Epstein 20 was assigned to the SHU on August 9th and 21 August 10th, 2019? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. And he was 24 assigned to the SHU on the days leading up to 25 August 9, 2019? EFTA00117816 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. Do you know 3 approximately how long Epstein was assigned to 4 the SHU? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : Was he assigned to the 7 SHU for the most part of when you were doing 8 you assignments in the SHU? 9 MS. NOEL: When I came back and I was 10 working there? 11 MR. : Correct. 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. : Yes? Okay. So does July 16 and August sound about right? That he was in 17 the SHU? 18 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 19 MR. : Yes? What was Epstein's 20 routine while he was assigned to the SHU? We 21 talked about it briefly. He was with attorneys 22 and stuff. So was that like a daily routine? 23 Can you just tell me when he would come and go? 24 And when he would be in the SHU and not be in 25 the SHU? EFTA00117817 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 1 MS. NOEL: Oh I come in at 2:00. And I 2 come in at 4:00. And when I come in he's not 3 there. He would come back like around after 4 8:00. 5 MR. : 8:00 p.m.? 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : Okay. And did you 8 typically work after 8:00? So you come in at 9 2:00 or 4:00. When would you typically work 10 until? 11 MS. NOEL: 2:00 to 10:00 or 4:00 to 12 midnight. Mm-hmm. 13 MR. : And then would you 14 typically do overtime shifts after that? 15 MS. NOEL: No because I usually do it on 16 the front end. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. NOEL: So I usually come in the 8:00 19 to 4:00 and do 4:00 to 12:00. 20 MR. : And when you would come 21 in 8:00 to 4:00, would he be gone already? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. But he would come 24 back around -? So he would be gone before 8:00 25 a.m. and come back around 8:00 p.m.? EFTA00117818 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 1 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : Would he eat when he was 3 in the SHU? 4 MS. NOEL: He gets common fare. That's 5 all I know. I don't know if he eats it. But 6 he gets common fare. 7 MR. : Would that be something 8 you supplied after 8:00 p.m.? 9 MS. NOEL: When he comes back. Yes. 10 MR. : Okay. What time is 11 typically feeding time? In the evening? 12 MS. NOEL: Um...after 4:00? 13 MR. : And so because he was 14 away, does he get -? Would he get an 15 individual tray that was saved for him or 16 provided when he returned? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : Okay. And would you 19 provide that try to him? 20 MS. NOEL: Not necessarily me just 21 whomever. 22 MR. : Did you ever? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : Okay. Did you provide 25 that to him on August 9th? EFTA00117819 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 62 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : You were the one who did? 3 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 4 MR. : Okay. Did you ever have 5 any communications with Epstein during his stay 6 at the MCC? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Never any conversations 9 at all? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Okay. Did you even 12 verbal say hello - hello back? Anything like 13 that? 14 MS. NOEL: Mm. He was in the shower to 15 make a phone call. And he was calling because 16 he wanted to come out of the shower. And I 17 told him that he had to wait because there were 18 other inmates out. And you can't move him and 19 them out at the same time. That's the only 20 conversation I ever had with him. 21 MR. : And get into that 22 but was that phone call on August 9, 2019? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : Okay. But when you would 25 provide food or anytime he would come back EFTA00117820 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 1 after 8:00 p.m. - even when he was coming in or 2 out, you wouldn't even say hello? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : No? Okay. For the one 5 interaction you can think of with the phone 6 call, do you remember if that was a positive or 7 a negative interaction? Do you remember it at 8 all? Was it -? 9 MS. NOEL: It was regular. 10 MR. : Regular? 11 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 12 MR. : Did he seem upset? 13 MS. NOEL: Uh, no. 14 MR. : No? Abnormal? Anything 15 out of the ordinary? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : No. What were your 18 instructions with regard to Epstein being 19 assigned to the SHU? 20 MS. NOEL: There was no instructions. 21 MR. : So no one said Epstein 22 was a high priority here? Pay closer attention 23 to him? 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : Alright. So even when EFTA00117821 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 you had that interaction with the one 2 individual who told you that he was a high- 3 profile person, that he was in the news all the 4 time, there was never a discussed that we need 5 to pay close attention to him? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : And Lieutenant , you 8 said was the lieutenant in the SHU, he never 9 told you to pay special attention to Epstein? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Okay. Was Epstein 12 assigned any cellmates when he was assigned to 13 the SHU? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : And do you know when he 16 was assigned to the SHU was he always assigned 17 a cellmate? 18 MS. NOEL: Um, I just know he had two 19 cellmates. 20 MR. : Okay. Two different 21 ones? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Alright. Did anyone ever 24 speak with you about Epstein needing a cellmate 25 when he was in the SHU? EFTA00117822 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : No? Who was the officer 3 in charge or the OIC in the SHU? 4 MS. NOEL: Me. 5 MR. : Um, are you talking about 6 at 12:00 a.m.? 7 MS. NOEL: Yes. On (Indiscernible 8 *00:46:06) -. 9 MR. : In general, was there 10 like one officer in charge that has like is 11 considered the OIC in the SHU? 12 MS. NOEL: That's what I'm telling you. 13 On paper, it says me. But I don't know how to 14 run the SHU. So I rely on the senior officer. 15 Well on the roster, it says that I was the OIC. 16 MR. : And -. 17 MS. NOEL: But -. 18 MR. : I think I'm just not 19 asking the question correctly. I'm not talking 20 about like from 12:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. on 21 August 10th. I mean in general. Like in July 22 and August when you were in the SHU, was there 23 one person that was considered the officer in 24 charge? Like how there's one lieutenant of the 25 SHU which was ? Was there also an officer EFTA00117823 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 in charge of the SHU? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : Do you know who - wasn't 4 it 5 MR. 6 MR. : Do you know who 7 is? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Would he be considered 10 the officer in charge? 11 MS. NOEL: See I don't know. Because on 12 the roster, it can be a different person. 13 MR. : Okay. Did have 14 like a desk or a computer area that he always 15 sat in when he was there? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : Specifically? 18 MS. NOEL: It's the one that we all sit 19 at. 20 MR. : But he didn't have one 21 specific location that he would sit at? Like - 22 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : No, he would sit 25 wherever? EFTA00117824 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Can you give me just like 3 a layout? How many desks and computers were 4 there in the SHU where the officers sat? 5 MS. NOEL: It was two desks. One this way 6 and one this way. 7 MR. : So kind of like an L type 8 of formation? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. And computers, about 10 three. 11 MR. : About three computers? 12 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. : And had you sat at all 14 three of those computers at least one time 15 during your shifts? 16 MS. NOEL: Um, yes. 17 MR. : Okay. So it's just - it 18 rotates. You can sit at each one? 19 MS. NOEL: I mean you can sit at any one. 20 MR. : And do you remember ever 21 there being a sign posted on any of the 22 computers saying that Epstein was required to 23 have a cellmate? 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : Alright. And then EFTA00117825 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Am I pronouncing that right? 2 MR. : Yeah. 3 MR. : How do you spell that 4 last name? Do you remember? 5 MR. -: 6 MR. : Thank you Agent 7 So he didn't have a specialized computer where 8 he would have posted a sign on a computer? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : No? What about - do you 11 recall ever seeing a sign posted on Epstein's 12 door? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : Saying that he was 15 required to have a cellmate? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : No? Okay. Who was 18 Inmate Nicholas Tartaglione, T-A-R-T-A-G-L-I-O- 19 N-I? 20 MS. NOEL: Uh, his first um cellmate that 21 he had. 22 MR. : Epstein's first cellmate? 23 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Was that his cellmate in 25 July of 2019? EFTA00117826 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 69 1 MS. NOEL: I'm not sure about the month, 2 but that was his first cellmate. 3 MR. : Okay. Do you recall if 4 Tartaglione was already in the SHU or was he 5 brought in specifically to be Epstein's 6 cellmate? 7 MS. NOEL: I don't know that. 8 MR. : You don't know that? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Okay. Are you aware of 11 any issues that took place between Epstein and 12 Tartaglione when they were cellmates? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : No. Were you aware that 15 on or around July 23 of 2019 um that Epstein 16 allegedly attempted to commit suicide? 17 MS. NOEL: I wasn't at work that day but I 18 was told. 19 MR. : Okay. And were you told 20 anything else about the incident? 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : Are you aware if 23 Tartaglione was his inmate at the time? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : And you said you didn't EFTA00117827 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 1 have any involvement in that matter though? 2 MS. NOEL: I wasn't at work. Hm-mm. 3 MR. : Do you know if 4 Tartaglione was removed as Epstein's cellmate? 5 At that point? 6 MS. NOEL: After that he had another 7 cellmate: Reyes. 8 MR. : And do you know why they 9 changed? 10 MS. NOEL: But I don't know why. 11 MR. : Okay. Do you know who 12 would have made that decision to change 13 cellmates? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : No. Had you ever heard 16 that Tartaglione attempted to harm Epstein? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : You didn't even hear that 19 rumor? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Okay. Do you know what 22 was used in the incident when Epstein attempted 23 to - allegedly attempted to take his life? 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : No? EFTA00117828 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 2 MR. : Do you know if it was 3 like linens or a shirt or any kind of -? 4 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 5 MR. : No? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : No one discussed that 8 with you? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : And you didn't ask 11 anybody about it? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : Do you know if Epstein 14 was placed on suicide watch or psychological 15 observation? 16 MS. NOEL: I think he was placed after 17 that. But I don't know which one. 18 MR. : Okay. Is it usually that 19 someone will go on suicide watch for about 24 20 hours? Then after that they would go on what' 21 called psychological observation. 22 MS. NOEL: I'm not sure. 23 MR. : You're not sure? 24 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 25 MR. : Is that done in the SHU EFTA00117829 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 or elsewhere? 2 MS. NOEL: It's done downstairs. 3 MR. : And when you say 4 downstairs, what - do you know where? 5 MS. NOEL: Where the suicide watch is or 6 Unit 2. 7 MR. : Okay. So second floor? 8 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : And do you know who makes 10 the determination to be able to place someone 11 on suicide watch or psychological observation? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : No? Okay. Does it sound 14 right that he was placed on suicide watch on or 15 around July 23, 2019? And returned to the SHU 16 on or around July 30, 2019? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : That sounds about right? 19 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : And at that time, was 21 Epstein assigned another cellmate? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Who - which cellmate? 24 MS. NOEL: Reyes. 25 MR. : Reyes? EFTA00117830 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : On or around July 30th. 3 And who was Inmate Reyes - Efren Reyes? 4 MS. NOEL: His cellmate. 5 MR. : Do you know anything 6 about him? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Okay. But you do know he 9 was his cellmate from that point until about 10 August 9, 2019? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. And do you know if 13 Inmate Reyes was already in the SHU? Or was he 14 brought in specifically to be Epstein's 15 cellmate? 16 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 17 MR. : You don't know if he was 18 already in there? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Now do you ever -? Do 21 you have any involvement with the inmates when 22 you're in there? Would you like converse with 23 them or do you just kind of -? 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : No? so you don't -. Did EFTA00117831 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 1 you ever know why people were specifically in 2 the SHU? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : No. Do you know why 5 Inmate Reyes was removed from the MCC on August 6 9, 2019? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : So even at this point do 9 you know why he was removed? 10 MS. NOEL: No. I didn't even know he was 11 removed. 12 MR. : No, I'm saying even today 13 do you know that? 14 MS. NOEL: Oh, no. 15 MR. : You don't even know that 16 he was removed? 17 MS. NOEL: No. I'm saying at that point 18 in time, I didn't know that he was removed. 19 MR. : Yeah. So I'm even saying 20 as of today -. 21 MS. NOEL: But for now, I don't know the 22 reason why he was removed. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : But you do know that he EFTA00117832 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 was removed? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : And did you know that he 4 was removed on August 9, 2019? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : So even on August 9th you 7 didn't know that he was removed? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : You knew that Epstein had 10 a cellmate. You just didn't know that he 11 didn't have a cellmate on that day? 12 MS. NOEL: He had a cellmate. I didn't 13 know that the cellmate was removed and wasn't 14 coming back. 15 MR. : Okay. So you never 16 learned on August 9th or August 10th for that 17 matter, prior to 6:30 that there was no other 18 inmate within Epstein's cell? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Okay. And do you know if 21 anybody was aware that Reyes was departing the 22 MCC or SHU prior to August 9, 2019? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 24 MR. : You don't even know that 25 - you know at this point- if anyone was aware? EFTA00117833 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : No. Do you know if it 3 was anticipated or not an anticipated move? 4 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 5 MR. : No? So on August 9th 6 during your time from 4:00 p.m. even to just 7 12:00 a.m. That was not discussed with you at 8 all or within the SHU? That Epstein's roommate 9 Reyes was removed? 10 MS. NOEL: Never. 11 MR. : Never? 12 MS. NOEL: Never. 13 MR. : Okay. And are you pretty 14 confident about that? 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : Okay. Are you aware if 17 Epstein should have been reassigned a cellmate 18 after Inmate Reyes was removed on August 9, 19 2019? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : So you're not aware: 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : If he should have been? 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : So your understanding was EFTA00117834 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 77 1 he had cellmates. You just didn't know if one 2 of them was removed that he should be 3 reassigned one? 4 MS. NOEL: Exactly. Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : Okay. Do you know who 6 was responsible for assigning Epstein a new 7 cellmate? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 9 MR. : No. Could SHU staff have 10 assigned Epstein a new cellmate? Would you 11 have the authority being - working in the SHU 12 if you knew someone was supposed to have a 13 cellmate? Do you have the authority to place 14 another inmate with that person? 15 MS. NOEL: See I don't know. Because I'm 16 that new. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. NOEL: So like I said, I rely on the 19 senior person a lot. So I don't know. like 20 that would be a question I would ask them. So 21 I don't know. 22 MR. : When you were - during 23 your time in the SHU, which you said I guess 24 was from you know late June through August 9th 25 or 10th. Did you ever see that happen before? EFTA00117835 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 78 1 SHU staff assign inmates with other inmates? 2 MS. NOEL: When an inmate comes, they 3 place them with another inmate. 4 MR. : And would they do that 5 based upon their own responsibilities and 6 duties or would someone tell them to do that? 7 MS. NOEL: See I don't know. 8 MR. : You don't even know? 9 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 10 MR. : Okay. So you saw people 11 be assigned with other ones, but you don't know 12 how -- 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : -- that was determined? 15 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 16 MR. : Okay. So you don't even 17 know if you could have assigned Epstein a new 18 cellmate? 19 MR. : I don't know. 20 MR. : Do you know if SHU staff 21 should have assigned? You know like Or I 22 guess you just answered that. So you said you 23 know. And again, on August 9th, no one 24 notified you that Reyes was gone from the SHU? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00117836 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 79 1 MR. : And you were working in 2 the SHU. 3 MS. NOEL: Nope. 4 MR. : Do they typically tell 5 you when an inmate in the SHU is - has left and 6 is not coming back? 7 MS. NOEL: Nobody said anything to me. I 8 don't know. 9 MR. : Because don't you have to 10 be able to keep your counts correct? And be 11 able to know how many people are in the SHU? 12 So if someone is removed, don't they have to 13 tell you? This person's not coming back so 14 your count is going to be lower. 15 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. But it wasn't told to 16 me. So I don't know. 17 MR. : Um okay. Do you know who 18 the MCC staff psychologists were in August of 19 2019? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Do you have any dealings 22 with them at all? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Does the name Chief 25 ring a bell? EFTA00117837 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : No? How about staff 3 psychologist 4 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. I know her. 5 MR. : Okay. Who is she? 6 MS. NOEL: She's one of the psychologists. 7 MR. : Okay. And did you heave 8 dealings with her? 9 MS. NOEL: I had dealings with her after. 10 MR. : You after August 10th? 11 MS. NOEL: Like on August 10th she came to 12 the unit. 13 MR. : Okay. Prior to August 14 10th did you have any dealings with her? 15 MS. NOEL: No not really. 16 MR. : No. What about a 17 18 MS. NOEL: Yes I know her. 19 MR. : And who is she? 20 MS. NOEL: A psychologist. 21 MR. : Did you have any dealings 22 with her? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : So only with 25 EFTA00117838 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Yes but she came after the 2 incident. 3 MR. : But what was your dealing 4 with her after the incident? 5 MS. NOEL: She just asked was I alright. 6 MR. : Okay. Did she ask you 7 anything about Epstein or his cellmate or 8 anything like that? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : No? So it was specific 11 to you? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. Are you aware was 14 Epstein meeting with staff psychologists during 15 his stay at the MCC? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : No. Would have he met 18 with them I guess during suicide watch and 19 psychological obviously? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. So that. Did you 22 know that he did meet with them then? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't know if he did, but I'm 24 going to assume he did. 25 MR. : Okay. But you do know EFTA00117839 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 that he was placed on suicide watch? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : And they never - no one 4 from psychology ever provided you instructions 5 with regard to when he returned - how he was to 6 be treated? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Or that he was - needed 9 to have a cellmate at all times. 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Or that you needed to 12 watch him? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : Do you know who placed 15 him on suicide watch? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : No? So what is your 18 understanding of suicide watch? When someone 19 is on suicide watch and comes back. What is 20 your understanding of how you're supposed to 21 treat those people? Now my understanding is 22 that you would have received this training you 23 know. Now I know you said you didn't do the 24 SHU training. But the other trainings that you 25 attended - the IF, the MCC annual, and the EFTA00117840 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 correctional officer training at FLETC. Did 2 they discuss suicide? 3 MS. NOEL: I mean if someone is like 4 explains to you that they're feeling a certain 5 kind of way or they want to harm themselves, 6 then you report it to them. They will place 7 them on suicide watch. But as far as when they 8 return, there's no - nothing special that we're 9 told to do when someone returns from suicide 10 watch. 11 MR. : So they don't tell you 12 like this person's on suicide watch, he's 13 returning, he needs, you know a high likelihood 14 of attempting to harm himself. 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : We should place him with 17 another cellmate. 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : That we should watch him. 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Or make sure that he 22 hasn't harmed himself. 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Or pay special close 25 attention to that individual. EFTA00117841 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : You said suicide watch 3 though, that is on the second floor? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Okay. So you're not 6 aware that the requirement that if someone is 7 returned to the SHU that they're required to 8 have a cellmate if they were on suicide watch? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Do you know the 11 difference between suicide watch and 12 psychological observation? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : No? Are they both done 15 in - on the second floor? 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : Okay. But you don't even 18 know what that is? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Did you know that Epstein 21 was also on psychological observation? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : No? Just suicide watch? 24 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : And to you it's one and EFTA00117842 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 the same thing? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : And I did ask about 6 suicide watch, but do you know who placed 7 Epstein on psychological observation? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : No? And you don't know - 10 . Are inmates that come from psychological 11 observation required to have a cellmate? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : You don't know? 14 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 15 MR. : So were you aware of any 16 inmates that are in the SHU that were on 17 suicide watch - came from suicide watch and 18 psychological observation? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : And again, that hotlist. 21 Did you say that you do remember there being 22 one? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : In the SHU? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00117843 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : So you don't even 2 remember there being a hotlist in the SHU? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : Would you like look 5 around at the boards and look at the walls and 6 see different things? 7 MS. NOEL: There is no list. 8 MR. : No? There's no like -- 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : -- where the post orders 11 are - where are they kept as -. 12 MS. NOEL: It's on the desk. 13 MR. : Was there also on the 14 desk something called the hotlist? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : Was there a list on the 17 desk that had like inmate's names and anything 18 next to them? Like a description? 19 MS. NOEL: There's a roster. 20 MR. : A roster like of all the 21 inmates in the SHU? Total? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Well what about like - 24 and I only say this because I know that there 25 was one. So you don't recall saying like - EFTA00117844 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 seeing like one list where there's special 2 people assigned to that list called the 3 hotlist? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : No? And you did work 6 there all June, July, and August? Or not all 7 end of June, July, and then it's August. 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Did any staff 10 psychologist visit the SHU? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : Did they ever visit 13 Epstein in the SHU? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : No? What time typically 16 would they come to the SHU when they would 17 visit? 18 MS. NOEL: Um like after -. When I worked 19 the 8:00 to 4:00. I don't know. Sometime in 20 the day like maybe around 12:00. 21 MR. : And would they not have 22 come to the SHU to see Epstein because he 23 wasn't there at 12:00? 24 MS. NOEL: Because he wasn't there. 25 MR. : Do you know if they ever EFTA00117845 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 88 1 visited him when he was with his attorneys? 2 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 3 MR. : You don't know. So did 4 anyone - so psychologist, peers, supervisors, 5 or anyone else - ever tell you that Epstein was 6 required to have a cellmate? 7 MS. NOEL: Nobody. 8 MR. : Nobody. Did you ever 9 receive any emails? So any type or form of 10 communication? So not just verbal. Emails and 11 writing, text messages - anything? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : No? Do you have that 14 email? This isn't an email that was sent to 15 you. I just want to see if you - if someone 16 ever forwarded this to you. Did anyone ever 17 forward you -? This is -. First of all, this 18 is an email from . It says 19 suicide watch / psychological observation 20 update. It's what was sent on July 20, 2019. 21 It says inmate Epstein is being taken off 22 psychological observation and needs to be 23 housed with an appropriate cellmate. Did 24 anyone ever forward this information to you? 25 Being that you worked in the SHU where he was EFTA00117846 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 assigned? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : No? So no one ever 4 discussed that with you in the SHU? Like none 5 of the other employees in the SHU that would 6 have received this? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Do you know why other 9 employees would have received this and you 10 wouldn't have? 11 MS. NOEL: I'm not going to say that they 12 received it and I didn't. 13 MR. : Well if you look at the 14 back it's all the people that it was sent to. 15 So if you go to the last page, do you recognize 16 any of the people on there that worked in the 17 SHU with you? The names. Look at the last - 18 sorry, that middle page and toward the bottom. 19 The following page I think. Middle, toward the 20 bottom. 21 MS. NOEL: That's the lieutenant. 22 MR. : Do you recognize 23 Lieutenant on there? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. But this is not sent 25 This is not the workers. EFTA00117847 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 90 1 MR. : None of those people were 2 assigned to the SHU? Towards the bottom of 3 that? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : No? Okay. So just the 6 only person that you see on that is Lieutenant 7 8 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 9 MR. : And he never discussed 10 that matter with you? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : If you don't mind, could 13 you initial and date it? 14 MS. NOEL: I initialed. 15 MR. : And date. 16 MS. NOEL: Ten.... 17 MR. : The 22nd. 6/22/21. 18 MR. : Agent just has a 19 couple questions on that. 20 MR. : Here. 21 MR. : During your time in the SHU - 22 23 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Did any new inmates come in 25 during your shift? EFTA00117848 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: On that specific day or in 2 general? 3 MR. : Yeah. From June to August. 4 When you worked in the SHU. Did the SHU 5 receive any new inmates? 6 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 7 MR. : When they came in, how did 8 you assign the inmates? 9 MS. NOEL: I didn't. The senior officer 10 did. 11 MR. : Senior officer. Did you see 12 them assign inmates? Assign a cell to them. 13 MS. NOEL: Like they put them in a cell? 14 Yes. 15 MR. : Were they ever put by 16 themselves? 17 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 18 MR. : Do you recall any inmates 19 being placed by themselves in the SHU? 20 MS. NOEL: I think there was one inmate by 21 himself. 22 MR. : Any reason why he was placed 23 by himself? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 25 MR. : So of all the inmates, EFTA00117849 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 there was only one that was by themselves? 2 MS. NOEL: I think it was an inmate by 3 himself on G tier. 4 MR. : Now you mentioned that day 5 were you on August 9th you were notified that 6 Efren Reyes was removed. But during your time 7 in the SHU, were you ever notified if an inmate 8 was ever removed from the SHU for whatever 9 reason? Were you notified about it? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : How would you find out if the 12 inmate was supposed to eb in the SHU or not? 13 MS. NOEL: How would I find out if an 14 inmate is supposed -? 15 MR. : Let's say the morning 16 started. 17 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 18 MR. : You came on shift at 2:00 19 p.m. or possibly 4:00. After that, there's 20 counts and rounds. When you do the counts, 21 right. I just want to know in terms of how 22 would you know if an inmate was removed or not? 23 MS. NOEL: When I count and he's not 24 there. 25 MR. : You wouldn't be notified any EFTA00117850 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 other way? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : That's all I have. 4 MR. : And I know we discussed 5 the cellmates, but were you ever told you 6 needed to keep a close watch on Epstein 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : -- when he was there? 9 No? Who was the MCC warden in July and August 10 of 2019? 11 MS. NOEL: 12 MR. : Is that 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : Okay. What 15 communications did you have with the warden 16 with regard to Epstein being housed within the 17 MCC or the MCC SHU? 18 MS. NOEL: None. 19 MR. : None. And he never 20 provided you special instructions with regard 21 to Epstein? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : Did the warden ever tell 24 you that Epstein was required to have a 25 cellmate? EFTA00117851 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 94 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Did the warden ever visit 3 the SHU during Epstein's stay at the MCC? 4 MS. NOEL: I don't know. Not on my shift. 5 MR. : Not during your shift? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : No? Okay. Do you know 8 if the warden ever met with Epstein during his 9 stay? 10 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 11 MR. : Who were the MCC 12 associate wardens in August of 2019? 13 MS. NOEL: Um, associate warden was 14 15 MR. -: 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : Anyone else? That you're 18 aware of? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Okay. And what 21 communications did you have with 22 or the other AW with regard to 23 Epstein being housed withing the MCC or the MCC 24 SHU? 25 MS. NOEL: None. EFTA00117852 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 95 1 MR. : None? Would you have 2 communications with any of the AWs? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : No? So did you not even 5 ever speak with them? 6 MS. NOEL: Not in the SHU. 7 MR. : Not in the SHU. When 8 would you speak with them? 9 MS. NOEL: On the regular housing unit 10 when they made rounds. 11 MR. : So in July and August did 12 you ever speak with them that you recall? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : No. So not since you 15 were assigned to the SHU at the end of June. 16 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : Okay. What about the 18 warden? Is that the same thing? 19 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : No communications? 21 MR. FOY: Don't know. 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : No? 24 MR. FOY: Don't answer if you don't know. 25 MS. NOEL: Okay. EFTA00117853 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 96 1 MR. FOY: Okay? 2 MR. : Do you know if any of the 3 AWs ever visited the SHU during Epstein's stay? 4 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 5 MR. : You don't know. Not 6 during your watch though? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Okay. Do you know if any 9 of the AWs ever met with Epstein during his 10 stay at the MCC? 11 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 12 MR. : You don't know. But not 13 when you were in the SHU? 14 MS. NOEL: Not on my shift. 15 MR. : Who was the MCC captain 16 in July and August of 2019? 17 MS. NOEL: Captain 18 MR. : Is that 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : Okay. And what 21 communications did you have with Captain 22 with regard to Epstein being housed within the 23 MCC or the MCC SHU? 24 MS. NOEL: None. 25 MR. : None? And did he ever EFTA00117854 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 provide you with special instructions with 2 regards to Epstein? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : Captain 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : Did the captain ever tell 7 you that Epstein was required to have a 8 celimate? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : In the SHU? No? Did the 11 captain ever visit the SHU during Epstein stay 12 at the MCC? 13 MS. NOEL: Not on my shift. 14 MR. : Not during your time? 15 Okay. And do you know if the captain ever met 16 with Epstein during his stay at the MCC? 17 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 18 MR. : You don't know. So who - 19 ? I'm going to give you now just because -. 20 Uh okay, where are the rosters? I'm going to 21 ask her about some of the supervisors that were 22 on duty. So are you familiar with these 23 rosters? Like just by looking at it are you 24 able to decipher who was on duty and who 25 wasn't? Or who was on duty on August 9th and EFTA00117855 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 98 1 10th? I'm giving you the MCC New York daily 2 assignment roster. So there's August 9th and 3 August 10th. So who were the MCC supervisors 4 on duty with responsibility for overseeing the 5 SHU on August 9th and 10th? Do you recall if 6 Lieutenant was there on August 9th or 7 10th? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't recall. 9 MR. : You don't recall. 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Okay. So he wasn't 12 there. So if he's not there, who has oversight 13 over the SHU? 14 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 15 MR. : Do you - would it be the 16 operations lieutenant or the activities 17 lieutenant? 18 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 19 MR. : You don't even know who 20 is - that would have responsibility if the 21 lieutenant of the SHU wasn't there? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : Would anybody if 24 Lieutenant wasn't there check in with you? 25 MS. NOEL: I mean the other lieutenant EFTA00117856 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 would make a round. 2 MR. : What other lieutenant 3 would that be? 4 MS. NOEL: Whoever was on. You mean that 5 day? 6 MR. : Yes. On August 9th and 7 August 10th. I'm wondering who had 8 responsibility of the SHU? If Lieutenant 9 wasn't there. He was the SHU lieutenant. 10 MS. NOEL: In the daytime, it was a 11 regular officer acting. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. NOEL: From the when I was on at 4:00 14 to 12:00. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. NOEL: And then from midnight it was 17 Lieutenant MR. : Okay. So would that 19 other person that you're referring to. Do you 20 know who that was? 21 MS. NOEL: The acting? That was acting? 22 MR. : Acting. 23 MS. NOEL: 24 MR. : SOS 25 MS. NOEL: Say that again. EFTA00117857 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 100 1 MR. : Was it SOS 2 Senior Officer Specialist 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : Is that 5 MS. NOEL: (Indiscernible *01:11:25) 6 MR. : I might be saying that 7 name wrong. 8 MS. NOEL: I'm not sure of her first name, 9 but -. 10 MR. : That's fine. Okay. So 11 those are the two that you remember: and 13 MS. NOEL: Was Acting in the day. Yes. 14 MR. : Okay. What about by 15 looking at that. Would the - do you see where 16 it says 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : Would that person have 19 oversight over the SHU from - does it say that 20 that person was the operations lieutenant? 21 MS. NOEL: That's what it says here but 22 didn't see Lieutenant 23 MR. : And do you know as being 24 the operations lieutenant would they be 25 responsible for overseeing the SHU? If EFTA00117858 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 101 1 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 2 MR. : You don't even know that? 3 Okay. So you don't know if after -. Is it 4 true that after replaced him 5 as the operations lieutenant? 6 MS. NOEL: According to this, yes. 7 MR. : Okay. And you're not 8 aware that that person would have oversight 9 over the SHU? 10 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 11 MR. : You don't know. No one 12 ever talked to you about isn't there. Who 13 should you go to if there are any problems or 14 who would check in with you? 15 MS. NOEL: No. I would call downstairs to 16 the lieutenant's office. 17 MR. : And would you just talk 18 to whoever answered? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : And who would sit in the 21 lieutenant's office? 22 MS. NOEL: The lieutenants. 23 MR. : All of them? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : So it wouldn't be like EFTA00117859 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 102 1 the operations lieutenant and the activities 2 lieutenant? 3 MS. NOEL: No. All the lieutenants. 4 MR. : Okay. They all just sit 5 in there together? 6 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. : Not one of them 8 specifically answers the phone though? Just -? 9 MS. NOEL: No. Anybody. 10 MR. : Okay. Do you remember -? 11 Again, Lieutenant was reportedly off on 12 August 9th and August 10th. 13 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 14 MR. : Do you recall ever seeing 15 him on August 9th or August 10th? 16 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 17 MR. : Where would Lieutenant 18 sit? When he was at the MCC? 19 MS. NOEL: Upstairs. 20 MR. : When you say upstairs, 21 upstairs where? 22 MS. NOEL: There's an office right next to 23 10 South upstairs there. 24 MR. : Within the SHU? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00117860 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. So he was 2 physically in the SHU? 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : Alright. So when he 5 wasn't there, would any other lieutenant come 6 visit the SHU? 7 MS. NOEL: When they make rounds. 8 MR. : Okay. When they make 9 rounds. And do you remember if that person was 10 the acting or the operations lieutenant or the 11 activities lieutenant? The person that would 12 do those rounds? 13 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 14 MR. : You don't know. you just 15 knew that they were a lieutenant. 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : Okay. So would you even 18 be provided that information where there's a 19 duty agent roster? Is that something that 20 would be like, hey. It's up. If I need to get 21 in contact with somebody, I can look at that 22 roster and see who is where? 23 MS. NOEL: No. Just call the lieutenant's 24 office. 25 MR. : Just call the EFTA00117861 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 104 1 lieutenant's office. 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. And I believe you 4 answered this, but did you have any 5 communications with Lieutenant regarding 6 Epstein at all? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : So he never provided you 9 any special instructions with Epstein? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : And you never - 12 Lieutenant never told you Epstein was 13 required to have a cellmate in the SHU? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : Do you know who 16 Operations Lieutenant Carlos was from 17 August 9th? Do you know that individual? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : But as the operations 20 lieutenant, you don't know that he was 21 responsible for overseeing the SHU on August 9, 22 2019? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 24 MR. : Did you have any 25 communications with Lieutenant regarding EFTA00117862 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 105 1 Epstein being housed at the MCC or in the SHU? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : He never did - did 4 Lieutenant ever provide you with special 5 instructions with regard to Epstein? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : Did Lieutenant ever 8 tell you that Epstein was required to have a 9 cellmate while he was assigned to the SHU? 10 MS. NOEL: No. I'm going to ask you these 11 questions with a couple people. So I just want 12 you to like really think about those people and 13 they're going to be repetitive. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : Because I know you can 16 just simply say I didn't have any 17 communications. But I want you to really think 18 about that individual and any communications 19 you had with that person with regard to Epstein 20 and the SHU and your assignments. Okay? 21 MS. NOEL: Okay. 22 MR. : Who is Lieutenant David 23 Medina? 24 MS. NOEL: A lieutenant. 25 MR. : A lieutenant. By looking EFTA00117863 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 106 1 at that roster, was he on it on August 9th? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : No. Do you know if he 4 was physically present at -? Do you recall if 5 he was physically present on August 9th? 6 MS. NOEL: I don't recall. 7 MR. : He was reportedly on sick 8 leave. I just want to make sure that he wasn't 9 there. 10 MS. NOEL: Okay. 11 MR. : So you don't recall 12 having any communications with him? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : Alright. And did 15 Lieutenant Medina ever provide you with special 16 instructions with regard to Epstein? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : No. Did Lieutenant 19 Medina ever tell you that Epstein was required 20 to have a cellmate while he was assigned to the 21 SHU? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : And then this is who you 24 were just referring to. Who was senior officer 25 specialist EFTA00117864 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: An officer. 2 MR. : And on August 9th, was 3 she the acting lieutenant responsible for 4 overseeing the SHU? 5 MS. NOEL: I don't know if she was 6 responsible for overseeing the SHU, but I know 7 she was the acting lieutenant. I don't know 8 for the whole building. 9 MR. : But you said she -- 10 MS. NOEL: But she -. 11 MR. : -- conducted a round? 12 MS. NOEL: She did. 13 MR. : Okay. So if she 14 conducted a round, would that lead you to 15 believe that she was probably -? Hey, 16 Lieutenant isn't there, she's conducting 17 the round here, she's probably got oversight 18 over the SHU? 19 MS. NOEL: I don't know. It could be 20 another lieutenant also. I don't know. 21 MR. : Okay. Did she visit the 22 SHU on August 9, 2019? 23 MS. NOEL: Yeah, she did. 24 MR. : And what time was she on 25 duty on August 9th? By looking at that roster. EFTA00117865 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 108 1 Can you tell? 2 MS. NOEL: It says 8:00 to 4:00. 3 MR. : I think it would just be 4 on that first page. 5 MR. : Is that August 10th or 9th? 6 MS. NOEL: This is 9th. 7 MR. : It just says 8:00 to 8 4:00? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : Can you check on the 11 lieutenants column up top? 12 MS. NOEL: (Indiscernible *01:17:34) 13 MR. : Is there a name? 14 MR. : It should be under 15 activities lieutenant. 16 MS. NOEL: Oh yeah. 4:00 to midnight. 17 MR. : 4:00 to midnight? Okay. 18 So you knew that - you do recall having an 19 interaction with her. Did she have any 20 communications with - we're talking 21 about now - with regard to Epstein being housed 22 within MCC or the SHU? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : No? And did she provide 25 you with any special instructions with regard EFTA00117866 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 109 1 to Epstein? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : Did SOS ever tell 4 you that Epstein was required to have a 5 cellmate when he was assigned to the SHU? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : Okay. Now we're going to 8 go on to some staff members. Who was present 9 in the SHU when you worked in the SHU on August 10 9, 2019? So you said you were from 4:00 to 11 midnight on that August 9th. Do you recall who 12 that was? 13 MS. NOEL: and 14 MR. : Just and 15 When you arrived to the SHU was anybody else 16 there? Do you recall replacing? 17 MS. NOEL: I don't remember who I 18 relieved. 19 MR. : Do you know a 20 ? (Phonetic Sp. *01:18:40) 21 MR. 22 MS. NOEL: 23 MR. -• 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Alright. And EFTA00117867 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 110 1 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : Were either of them in 4 the SHU on August 9, 2019? 5 MS. NOEL: 6 MR. 7 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 8 MR. : But while you were there, 9 not 10 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. But I 11 remember because he spoke to me. 12 MR. : Okay. So 13 and are the people that you 14 remember that were in the SHU? 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : Okay. And you said that 17 you remember speaking with you? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : About what? 20 MS. NOEL: He told me he placed Epstein in 21 the shower to use the phone. And he called and 22 told me to take the phone from him. 23 MR. : Can you give me a little 24 more detail on that? What do you mean? 25 MS. NOEL: So because he -. EFTA00117868 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Just walk me through. 2 This one is one of those ones I'll ask you to 3 explain a little more. Can you just from eh 4 start of the conversation to what you did with 5 Epstein to the finish. 6 MS. NOEL: Okay. So Epstein stays in 7 attorney conference all day. So I guess when 8 it's time to use the phone, he's not present. 9 So when he came upstairs, gave him the 10 phone in the shower to use the phone. And then 11 left. He called on the phone. I 12 happened to answer and he said, "Hey can you 13 take the phone from Epstein? Because the time 14 is up." So -. 15 MR. : So when he gave him the 16 phone he left and no one else was present with 17 Epstein when he was on the phone? 18 MS. NOEL: No. Nobody was there. 19 MR. : Do you know that to be a 20 legitimate practice? 21 MS. NOEL: I mean it's in the SHU, so 22 yeah. 23 MR. : So is no one supposed to 24 be - because is the SHU a recorded line? 25 MS. NOEL: I don't know. EFTA00117869 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 112 1 MR. : So do you know if someone 2 is calling from a non-recorded line, are you 3 supposed to take notes of that call? 4 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 5 MR. : Do you know if you're 6 supposed to log the telephone call in any kind 7 of a logbook? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : Okay. So your 10 understanding is gave him - plugged in 11 the line, gave him the phone, and then left? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : No one was there to 14 monitor? 15 MR. : Okay. So he -. 16 MS. NOEL: We were in the SHU, but nobody 17 was monitoring him. 18 MR. : How far away from you was 19 he when he was making this call? 20 MS. NOEL: He was on G tier. And like 21 that's far from the desk. 22 MR. : Approximately - do you 23 know how to like -? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 25 MR. : Is it like from here to EFTA00117870 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 113 1 like that fire extinguisher over there? Or is 2 it further? 3 MS. NOEL: No. Maybe from the wall by the 4 EC to over there. 5 MR. : Okay. So approximately 6 25 feet? 7 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 8 MR. : Could you hear his 9 conversation from there? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : And were you asked to 12 listen to his conversation? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : Prior to placing the 15 call, did speak to you at all? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : So just after he placed 18 the call, he called you and what did he say? 19 MS. NOEL: He said to take the phone from 20 him because the time is up. 21 MR. : Do you know how long he 22 was on that phone? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Were you watching him 25 while he was on that phone? EFTA00117871 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1_ 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Was it abnormal for an 3 inmate to be out by himself on the phone in the 4 SHU? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : So they can just freely - 7 that's not an abnormal circumstance? 8 MS. NOEL: No because he wasn't free. He 9 was in a cell. He was in a cell on the phone. 10 But he -. 11 MR. : Oh so he was in a cell? 12 MS. NOEL: Yeah but he was - he was in the 13 shower because the jack - where his cell is, 14 the jack didn't work. So he was placed in the 15 shower to use the phone there. But the shower 16 is like a cell. 17 MR. : Okay. So was the door 18 closed -- 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : -- in the cell? So he 21 was in the shower area. Was he by himself? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Were showers running? 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : He was just - he placed EFTA00117872 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 115 1 the call in the shower, cell closed behind him, 2 it was approximately 25 feet from you but you 3 didn't hear anything? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : And he didn't - and 6 didn't instruct you? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Did you ever experience 9 that prior to that instance? Where an inmate 10 would do that in the SHU? 11 MS. NOEL: Yeah. If they have to use the 12 phone and where there cell is, it's not 13 working. They place them in there because they 14 have to plug it close to where they can have 15 access to the phone. 16 MR. : Okay. So in their cells 17 do they have cell lines that they can typically 18 call from? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Are the inmates provided 21 anything to be able to make calls? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : Some kind of a card pass 24 or number or like something to be able to -? 25 MS. NOEL: Oh, like a pack and - yeah. EFTA00117873 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 116 1 MR. : Okay. Can you explain 2 what that is? 3 MS. NOEL: I mean I don't know too much 4 about it. I just know that they have a PIN 5 that they use to use the phone. 6 MR. : Okay. Do you know if 7 Epstein had that PIN to use the phone? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 9 MR. : But specifically with 10 regard to the shower, having an inmate call 11 from the shower, have you ever experienced that 12 before? 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : When was the last time 15 you had experienced that prior to August 9th? 16 MS. NOEL: If the jack is not working. 17 The jack that's closest to their door. If it's 18 not working, then it's being plugged at the 19 bottom where the shower is. So you place them 20 in the shower just so they can reach the phone. 21 MR. : And do you know if that 22 was an authorized practice? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 24 MR. : Okay. And did you ever 25 place anybody in the shower to do that? EFTA00117874 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : No? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : Who typically does that? 5 MS. NOEL: The officers. 6 MR. : Okay. But not you, 7 right? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : Would you ever allow 10 inmates to place calls? 11 MS. NOEL: When -. 12 MR. : You personally. 13 MS. NOEL: When I come on, they have 14 already like got their phone calls. 15 MR. : Oh, okay. So it's not 16 typically one of your responsibilities? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : What was unique about 19 this situation with Epstein? 20 MS. NOEL: Well I guess because he's 21 always downstairs, so they made an exception 22 for him to make a call. 23 MR. : Okay. Do we need to take 24 a break? 25 MR. FOY: DO you need to use the bathroom EFTA00117875 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 118 1 or anything? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. FOY: We can continue. 4 MR. : Great. Alright. So what 5 were instructions. You said that 6 he's - his time is up. So what's - how much 7 time is he allotted? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 9 MR. : Do you know how long he 10 was in that shower? 11 MS. NOEL: Mm.... I don't know. 12 MR. : You don't know. Was it 13 like 5 minutes, 10 minutes -? 14 MS. NOEL: It wasn't 5 minutes. He was in 15 there for maybe 30 minutes. 16 MR. : 20 minutes? Okay. And 17 where was 18 MS. NOEL: He was gone. 19 MR. : Like left the SHU 20 altogether? 21 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : So he placed him in there 23 24 MS. NOEL: Sorry. 25 MR. : -- left the SHU, and then EFTA00117876 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 119 1 where did he call you from in order to say get 2 the phone from him? 3 MS. NOEL: A phone in the building. ] 4 don't know where because it doesn't say where. 5 Like the phone rang and I answered. And he 6 just told me to take the phone from Epstein. 7 His time is up. 8 MR. : Is that weird to you at 9 all? That he again, he gave someone a phone, 10 put them in the shower and then left? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : That's not weird? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : Okay. But without 15 providing anybody -. Did you know if he - 16 - provided anybody instructions prior 17 to him departing the SHU? 18 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 19 MR. : You don't know. 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Who else was in the SHU 22 with you at that time? 23 MS. NOEL: and 24 MR. : And did you recall when 25 around that took place? EFTA00117877 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 120 1 MS. NOEL: Like the time? 2 MR. : Yep. 3 MS. NOEL: It had to have been about after 4 8:00 because that's the time he comes back from 5 attorney conference. 6 MR. : Okay. So around 8:00 7 p.m. - ish? 8 MS. NOEL: After. 9 MR. : After 8:00 p.m. - ish? 10 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 11 MR. : Okay. Are you able to 12 look? Was assigned to the SHU when he 13 gave him his phone call? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : Where was he assigned? 16 That's fine. Do you know what - why 17 went to the SHU in the first place? 18 Was the escorting Epstein back from his 19 attorneys? 20 MS. NOEL: I'm not sure. 21 MR. : So you don't know the 22 reason why he actually entered the SHU? 23 MS. NOEL: No. I don't know. 24 MR. : And you -? Do you 25 remember if he walked into the SHU with Epstein EFTA00117878 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE lz_ 1 and immediately placed him into the shower 2 area? Or do you think that he went and 3 retrieved Epstein from his cell? 4 MS. NOEL: No. He didn't retrieve him 5 from his cell. He came in and said that he was 6 going to give him a phone call. 7 MR. : So he was with him at the 8 time? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. And he placed him in the 10 shower. 11 MR. : So do you recall then if 12 he walked in the SHU with Epstein? 13 MS. NOEL: I don't know if he walked in 14 with him. But after because you could come in 15 and he could have been -. There's a holding 16 cell there. That's why I'm saying I don't 17 know. And then he came in after with him. But 18 from that door to the shower, he walked in with 19 20 MR. : Okay. So Epstein wasn't 21 in his own cell? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : He could have potentially 24 been in a holding cell? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00117879 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 122 1 MR. : Alright. But you don't 2 know who brough Epstein -- 3 MS. NOEL: No because 4 MR. : -- back there? 5 MS. NOEL: somebody could have brought 6 him up and then - so I don't know. 7 MR. : Okay. Now in order to 8 get into the SHU though, either you, 9 10 MS. NOEL: Had to open the -. 11 MR. : -- open the door. Do you 12 remember who opened the door on that day? 13 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 14 MR. : It was not you? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : Okay. And I'm sorry, you 17 may have said this and I do apologize. What 18 time did and work there until? 19 MS. NOEL: was 4:00 to 12:00 and 20 was 2:00 to 10:00. 21 MR. : Okay. And what was the 22 hierarchy with the three of you that were 23 present at that time? Is there someone that 24 was in charge as an officer in charge? Or how 25 does that work when you're working together EFTA00117880 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 123 1 with those two other individuals? 2 MS. NOEL: I don't know who was in charge. 3 We just kind of worked together that day. But 4 I don't know as far as who is the -. 5 MR. : Is everyone considered 6 equals? When you're working together? 7 MS. NOEL: Well I'm the newest person 8 there, so and - I don't know how 9 long they've been there, but -. 10 MR. : Does it - does then when 11 you work with someone else, is it based upon 12 how long they've been with the Bureau? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : So is there -. I know 15 you're saying you're the newest. So you might 16 ask them questions. But is there like when 17 there's three of you in there, is there someone 18 that's supposed to eb in charge? Or are you 19 all equally -? 20 MS. NOEL: On the roster it'll say who is 21 supposed to be in charge. 22 MR. : Okay. So (Indiscernible 23 *01:28:25) -. 24 MS. NOEL: But that doesn't necessarily 25 that's not necessarily the case. EFTA00117881 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 124 1 MR. : On that roster on August 2 9th of those three people, who does it say 3 should have been in charge? 4 MR. : It's on the first page. 5 MR. : It's on the first page. 6 If you look all the way to the left, see 7 SHU assignments. And then you can look - go 8 over to the right and see their names. I 9 believe. 10 MS. NOEL: I don't see . I'm looking 11 for I don't see that. 12 MS. : Really quick, can I just show 13 her how she reads -- 14 MR. : Absolutely. 15 MS. : -- a roster? 16 MS. NOEL: Oh I see him here. 17 MS. : So - sorry. Most of what 18 they're asking you would be on page one and 19 page two, right? So these are your shifts. 20 These are the posts. And then these are the 21 people who worked that shift too. If morning 22 watch, 3:00, 6:00 to 2:00, 6:00 and 8:00 is day 23 watch. This is the p.m. 12:00 to 8:00, 2:00 to 24 10:00, and this is all your evening watch. 25 This is like a person with a day off, sick EFTA00117882 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 125 1 leave, so on and so forth. These things I 2 don't believe apply to their questions because 3 these are all the changes that took place on 4 the roster. 5 MR. : Most everything is going 6 to be on the first page. 7 MS. : Yeah, so this can be a little 8 bit confusing. 9 MS. NOEL: Okay. 10 MS. : And it probably doesn't apply 11 to the stuff that they're asking. 12 MS. NOEL: Okay. 13 MS. : So you would just focus on 14 MS. NOEL: These two pages. 15 MS. : Yeah. The shifts are up top. 16 MR. FOY: So how does she determine who's 17 the boss? Because that's the question. 18 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 19 MS. : So this - these positions will 20 tell you who is in that position for that 21 shift. Right? I don't want to answer the 22 question for you, but when you look at the SHU 23 24 MR. FOY: Can you show her where the 25 answer is on the paper? EFTA00117883 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 126 1 MS. : Here. SHU I. That's your 2 OIC. 3 MS. NOEL: Okay. 4 MS. : Straight across. SHU II. SHU 5 III is your 6:00 to 2:00, 2:00 to 10:00. And 6 SHU IV is straight across. Right? So for 7 example, SHU IV was vacant on evening watch. 8 And then this is showing that was SHU 9 number one for the evening watch shift. 10 MS. NOEL: And this one to what time? 11 MS. : Shift III is 6:00 to 2:00. 12 MS. NOEL: Oh, okay. 13 MS. : And then shift ten is 2:00 to 14 10:00. 15 MS. NOEL: Okay. 16 MR. : Thank you very much for 17 that assistance. 18 MS. : Mm-hmm. 19 MS. NOEL: So basically on this it would 20 have been 21 MR. : Okay. would 22 have been -? 23 MS. NOEL: In charge. Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Okay. Because he was SHU 25 I? EFTA00117884 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 127 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : And do you know what SHU 3 I means he was the officer in charge? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : What does SHU II and SHU 6 III represent? Are there different duty 7 responsibilities - duties and responsibilities 8 based upon if you're SHU I, SHU II, or SHU III? 9 MS. NOEL: I just know whoever the number 10 one is would be the person in charge. But as 11 far as two and three, I don't know the 12 difference in responsibility. 13 MR. : Now in the time that you 14 worked there, did that actually play into 15 anything? If someone was SHU I or SHU II or 16 SHU III? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : No? So -. 19 MS. NOEL: Because we're always short- 20 staffed. So. 21 MR. : Okay. So would that mean 22 that like if the person SHU I even though on 23 paper they're the officer in charge, they're 24 actually not providing orders or anything? 25 Everyone's equally -. EFTA00117885 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 128 1 MS. NOEL: Doing what we need to do. 2 MR. : Okay. So everybody 3 basically has the same job responsibility. 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Okay. So you don't look 6 to someone as the actual officer in charge. 7 MS. NOEL: I do because I don't know. So 8 - but not necessarily the officer in charge, 9 just whoever that I'm working with. 10 MR. : Okay. And what was your 11 -? I don't know, this may have just answered 12 that, but what was your role in the SHU on 13 August 9, 2019? What SHU number were you? 14 MS. NOEL: Number two. 15 MR. : Number two. Like again, 16 you don't believe that actually provided you 17 with a different responsibility that SHU I or 18 SHU III? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : No? Okay. And what 21 conversations did you have with the SHU staff 22 that you worked with on August 9th regarding 23 Epstein? 24 MS. NOEL: None. 25 MR. : So you said that the one EFTA00117886 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 129 1 was with 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : Correct? With regard to 4 the phone call. 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : Now try to put yourself 7 back then. 8 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : Any other conversations 10 at that point with regard to Epstein? 11 MS. NOEL: Um.... No. 12 MR. : Any follow on to when he 13 said get the phone from Epstein? 14 MS. NOEL: No. When he said to get the 15 phone, I got the phone. And I spoke to 16 Epstein. 17 MR. : Okay. And what was it 18 that you spoke with Epstein about? 19 MS. NOEL: I was told that your time is up 20 and I have to take the phone. And he said 21 okay. 22 MR. : Okay. And did 23 say to then place him back in his cell? Or was 24 that understood? 25 MS. NOEL: No. That was understood. EFTA00117887 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 130 1 MR. : And is that what you did? 2 MS. NOEL: I didn't place him back in the 3 cell. I went to the bathroom upstairs on 10. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MS. NOEL: And when I came back, he was 6 placed back in his cell. 7 MR. : Okay. So what did you 8 do? You went to the shower and just instructed 9 him through the door? 10 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 11 MR. : To hang up? 12 MS. NOEL: No. I told him that I was told 13 that his time was up and I have to take the 14 phone in. And he said okay. And then he 15 handed me the phone. It's like a slot. 16 MR. : Okay. And then you 17 walked away? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : And he just stayed there 20 and waited? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : And then who brought him 23 from the shower to his cell? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't know. well it had to 25 be and because it takes two EFTA00117888 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 people to move him. And I went to the 2 bathroom. 3 MR. : Okay. So you used the 4 restroom at the time that he was transported -? 5 MS. NOEL: Back to his cell. Yes. 6 MR. : Okay. And did you have 7 any conversation with the individuals after 8 they placed - before or after they placed him 9 into the cell? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Did you instruct them, 12 hey I just took the phone from him, can you 13 place him back into the cell? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : Okay. So you did talk to 16 them about that. 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. I said I was going to the 18 bathroom and he has to go back to the cell. 19 MR. : Okay. That was the 20 extent of it? 21 MS. NOEL: That was the extent of it. 22 MR. : Alright. And again, we 23 briefly talked about him, but 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Now do you know if he EFTA00117889 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 132 1 worked that day? 2 MS. NOEL: In the morning. 3 MR. : And who replaced him? 4 MS. NOEL: 5 MR. 6 MS. NOEL: Because he worked 6:00 to 2:00 7 and comes in 2:00 to 10:00. 8 MR. : Okay. So when someone 9 gets replaced, do they typically give a 10 briefing? Like so would - and I apologize 11 about the name but - Would they - 12 would he typically be responsible to provide 13 with information so that he - you know 14 with regard to what happened on his assignment 15 so that he can utilize that for when he's not 16 replacing him? 17 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 18 MR. : Does that make any sense? 19 MS. NOEL: I mean I don't know if he's 20 typically required to, but I guess if there's 21 information to give, he would give it to him. 22 But I don't know if he has to. 23 MR. : Okay. And during your 24 time, was there any conversation with any 25 information that gave to ? Or EFTA00117890 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 133 1 passed along? 2 MS. NOEL: I wasn't 3 MR. : For the replacements? 4 MS. NOEL: I wasn't there at 2:00. I came 5 in at 4:00. But nothing was told to me. 6 MR. : So never informed 7 you or in your presence? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : Okay. So there was no 10 discussion for Epstein to be reassigned a 11 cellmate? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : And again, you didn't 14 even know that his cellmate wasn't there? 15 MS. NOEL: Wasn't there. 16 MR. : Okay. And should have 17 you known that his cellmate wasn't there? 18 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 19 MR. : So when you're doing 20 rounds and conducting counts, wouldn't that be 21 when you would know if someone was with or 22 without a cellmate? Because you said only one 23 other person there didn't have a cellmate. 24 Correct? 25 MS. NOEL: But people move all the time. EFTA00117891 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 134 1 When you're in SHU, like let's say if you did 2 something and you're in trouble. So you're in 3 the SHU. You could be sent back to your 4 regular unit. So it wouldn't be odd like if I 5 was counting and the person wasn't there. It 6 would just be lesser the count. But it 7 wouldn't be odd if the physical person wasn't 8 there to me. Because people move back all the 9 time. 10 MR. : But wouldn't they have to 11 advise you if you knew that there was only one 12 person without - you know, one person that 13 doesn't have a cellmate. Wouldn't they have to 14 advise you? Hey, this person left, so this 15 persons' in there by himself. 16 MS. NOEL: I don't know. Because nobody 17 said anything to me. 18 MR. : So I'm not -. I'm just 19 saying in general now. So like if you're 20 conducting your rounds and your counts, in 21 order for you to know who you're supposed to be 22 counting and what -. During both rounds and 23 counts, you know, who are you supposed to be 24 checking on. Wouldn't you need to know if a 25 cellmate was removed and now there's only one EFTA00117892 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 135 1 inmate in the cell? 2 MS. NOEL: No. like if I'm counting and 3 the person is not there. Like say the count 4 was 66. And I counted 65, that's just what 5 count. 6 MR. : And you wouldn't try to 7 like figure out where is the 66th? 8 MS. NOEL: No because whoever moved the 9 person would have I guess documented where they 10 moved them to. 11 MR. : So you wouldn't - it is 12 after you count at 65, then would you have to 13 just go try to find paperwork. Hey, is there 14 another guy that someone else moved? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : Okay. So how do you 17 reconcile the numbers? Rather than me saying 18 so many words, you tell me how -- 19 MS. NOEL: Okay. So let's say -. 20 MR. : -- do you know who's in 21 the SHU? 22 MS. NOEL: So let's say like if there was 23 66 people in there. And one person moved to 24 wherever. They would have already did that. 25 So it wouldn't be for me to do. When I count EFTA00117893 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 136 1 now because the person is not there, I'm going 2 to just count 65. But the number is not going 3 to be off because whoever moved the body 4 already moved them to like let's say back to 5 the unit or wherever. So I wouldn't be trying 6 to find or figure out where the person went. 7 I'm just counting. 8 MR. : Okay. So and you're 9 counting during the counts, right? Not during 10 the rounds? 11 MS. NOEL: Right. During the counts. 12 MR. : Rounds are every 30 13 minutes approximately? 14 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 15 MR. : So during those rounds, 16 are you supposed to be when you're conducting 17 the rounds, what is the intent of those rounds? 18 MS. NOEL: Whoever is in there to make 19 sure that they're okay. 20 MR. : So if you don't know who 21 is in there, how do you make sure that they're 22 there and okay? 23 MS. NOEL: Because they would have already 24 been -. If the person is not there, like they 25 would have already been moved in the system. EFTA00117894 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 137 1 So if I'm making a round, I'm not going be like 2 well oh this person is not in here. Because 3 people go to different places. They go back to 4 the unit. They go to court. They go to 5 different places. So again, it wouldn't be 6 odd if somebody is not there. I mean I could 7 ask the person that I'm working with. Like oh 8 hey, whatever happened to so-and-so, but. 9 MR. : Alright. So you're 10 saying that even though you knew only one 11 inmate didn't have a SHU and especially, it 12 sounds like you're working later. 13 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 14 MR. : So everyone should pretty 15 much be back from wherever they went to. 16 Correct? 17 MS. NOEL: Correct. 18 MR. : So at that point, you 19 only know one person doesn't have a cellmate. 20 You're walking through and you see that someone 21 doesn't have a cellmate. You're not asking -- 22 MS. NOEL: But see I don't know -. 23 MR. : -- where is that person? 24 MS. NOEL: But see I don't know that the 25 person has to have a cellmate. So again, even EFTA00117895 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 138 1 though the one person doesn't have a cellmate, 2 it's not odd to me because I don't know that 3 they have to have a cellmate. What if the 4 person went back to the unit? I didn't know 5 where Reyes went to. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : Can I ask her something? 8 MR. : Yes, please. 9 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 10 MR. : I just want to clarify. When 11 you come in, right. Let's say you come on re- 12 shift. Is there somewhere near the computer 13 that tells you how many inmates are supposed to 14 eb in the SHU? 15 MS. NOEL: On the roster. 16 MR. : On the roster? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : And now let's say - dr 19 review the roster when you come in? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : So how do you know? Let's 22 just say someone went missing. How do you 23 know? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 25 MR. : But isn't that - when you EFTA00117896 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 139 1 come on shift, right. You're responsible. I'm 2 not saying this is the case. But you're 3 responsible to know how many inmates are in the 4 SHU at that time. Right? 5 MS. NOEL: When I come on shift, I just 6 come on and relive the person and just -. Like 7 when I come on at 4:00, it's time to feed. So 8 I'm doing trays and I'm feeding. I'm not 9 looking to see who's on the roster or -. You 10 would probably wait for count time to count and 11 then count to see how much people is in there. 12 But I'm not looking to see okay the roster says 13 75 and I'm counting to make sure there's 75 14 people. Only at count time. 15 MR. : So when you're doing your 16 rounds, all you're doing is the people that you 17 see, are they okay. If someone escaped, you 18 wouldn't know that until count time? 19 MS. NOEL: I wouldn't. No. 20 MR. : Okay. And that's 21 basically - that answers it. So she's saying 22 that she's not even worried about if someone is 23 not there. She's only worried about the people 24 that are there. Is that correct? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. Yes. EFTA00117897 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 140 1 MR. : Alright. 2 MS. : What - I've got a question. 3 MR. : Absolutely. 4 MS. : Would procedural clarification 5 help with the question? 6 MR. : Sure. We have all the 7 polices here. Would you like me to show her 8 the policies? I'm happy to do that. 9 MS. : Yeah. Or I could explain it. 10 MR. : I'll give her the 11 policies and just ask if she's familiar with 12 them. That's fine. So she knows what she 13 should have done. 14 MS. : I'll just say this to you. 15 The policy is very general for the entire 16 agency, not specific to MCC New York. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. : So. 19 MR. : While he's looking, I just 20 want clarification. 21 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : When you came in, if an 23 inmate was removed, would that roster have been 24 edited? 25 MS. NOEL: It should be. EFTA00117898 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 141 1 MR. : Do you recall if that roster 2 - was there a roster on your desk? 3 MS. NOEL: There's always a roster. But I 4 don't look at the roster. 5 MR. : But you don't recall if there 6 was anything - if there was a notification or 7 anything written down saying inmate Efren Reyes 8 was removed from the SHU? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Is that something the 11 previous shift should have communicated to you? 12 MS. NOEL: They could have. 13 MR. : Alright. So I'm going to 14 read this out loud and then provide it to 15 you. This is the Metropolitan Correctional 16 Center, New York, New York specific post 17 orders. This is specifically says SHU number 18 one. And I think that would be the officer in 19 charge as we just discussed. But I think that 20 they're, like you said, everyone's kind of 21 responsible for the same thing. But it 22 discusses right here, I'm going to go down to 23 the third paragraph on page 2 of 18. It says 24 report for duty by telephone with the 25 operations lieutenant and receive any EFTA00117899 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 142 1 additional information. Begin making 30 -. So 2 according to this, it says when you're report 3 to duty, you're supposed to talk to the 4 operations lieutenant and receive whatever 5 information you're supposed to on your shift. 6 It says, "Begin making 30-minute rounds 7 ensuring you document the findings into True 8 Scope (Phonetic Sp. *01:42:49). Staff will 9 observe all inmates in continued lockdown 10 status once in the first 30-minute period of 11 the hour. Example, 12:00 to 12:30 a.m. 12 Followed by another round in the second 30- 13 minute period of the same hour 12:30 to 1:00 14 a.m. This will ensure an inmate is observed at 15 least twice per hour. These rounds are to be 16 conducted on an irregular schedule and no more 17 than 40 minutes apart. All observations must 18 be documented. It should be clearly understood 19 that none of these activities are to take place 20 until the evening watch officer is relieved. 21 It should be noted that it is understood that 22 not all of the above will be accomplished by or 23 before the count." Then it talks about 24 official count time. The SHU number two 25 officer you said you were working, is that for EFTA00117900 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 143 1 both your shifts? Because this is specifically 2 talking about 12:00 a.m. What were you at 3 12:00 a.m. on August 10th? 4 MS. NOEL: I think I was number one. Yes. 5 MR. : Alright. So this 6 actually is pertaining to your shift during 7 12:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. So -. 8 MR. FOY: You mean according to what you 9 just read? 10 MR. : What I just read. This 11 says for -- 12 MR. FOY: Right. 13 MR. : -- the specific 14 (Indiscernible *01:43:58) so we're SHU number 15 one. So I guess what you were supposed to do 16 per post orders was when you get on board, 17 you're supposed to call the operations 18 lieutenant. And then you're supposed to say 19 hey, is there any information I need to know. 20 And then you're supposed to start making your 21 counts. And that would be like where you would 22 find out Epstein doesn't have a cellmate. Make 23 sure that when you're doing your rounds, you 24 know there's nobody in there. You know I would 25 think. Is that - was that your understanding EFTA00117901 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 144 1 at all? 2 MS. NOEL: No. I've never 3 MR. : Was that ever put into 4 practice? 5 MS. NOEL: No. Nobody ever calls the 6 lieutenant when they get on shift. 7 MR. : So no one ever talked to 8 them? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Okay. Is there - I don't 11 know if I need to continue reading this because 12 we're going to take a lot of time with it if we 13 do. Just because I read it, if you want to 14 take a look. And just initial and date there. 15 And then we're just going to move on. 16 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : Because that's - this is 18 taking up. 19 MR. FOY: Initial the top. 20 MR. : But the point on that 21 matter was that you knew you were supposed to 22 observe the people that were there. You 23 weren't too concerned about people that weren't 24 there. 25 MS. NOEL: Nothing. Correct. EFTA00117902 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 145 1 MR. : Is that a correct 2 understanding? 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : Alright. On August 9th, 5 do you recall having any discussions with 6 regarding Epstein? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : And again, would 9 have been the one - did you say he was the one 10 who replaced -? 11 MS. NOEL: Relieved 12 MR. : Okay. So if 13 provided with information, did not 14 provide you with that information. 15 MS. NOEL: I don't know if 16 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah, I know. 17 I'm asking that 18 MS. NOEL: Oh, about didn't 19 MR. : If he did that, 20 certainly didn't provide it to you. 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : Okay. And didn't 23 provide you with any special instructions 24 regarding Epstein? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00117903 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 146 1 MR. : No? Did you discuss the 2 need for Epstein to be reassigned a cellmate 3 with anyone on August 9th? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : No. When did 6 depart the SHU? On August 9th? 7 MS. NOEL: At 10:00. 8 MR. : 10:00 p.m.? Correct? 9 MS. NOEL: Correct. 10 MR. : You said unit manager 11 Nathan . He actually wasn't in the SHU? 12 I mean he wasn't assigned to the SHU. I'm 13 sorry. 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : He was just in there in 16 order to facilitate the start of this telephone 17 conversation? 18 MS. NOEL: Phone call. Yes. 19 MR. : And you don't know why he 20 was in there in the first place? 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : So you don't know if he 23 brought Epstein in? 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : He just - and you're not EFTA00117904 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE li 1 the one to allow them? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : Alright. So he didn't 4 actually have any responsibilities in the SHU? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : And aside from the 7 telephone conversation that you had with 8 , with specifically with regards to get 9 the phone away from him, his time is up. Any 10 other conversations? 11 MS. NOEL: With no. 12 MR. : No. About Epstein or 13 otherwise. 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : No. Any conversations 16 with him in person? 17 MS. NOEL: Only when I took the phone from 18 him. 19 MR. : No-no, not Epstein. 20 21 MS. NOEL: Oh, no. 22 MR. : And that's what I was 23 asking about before. It's just to make sure 24 that we're clear. Any other conversations 25 aside from that one conversation on the phone EFTA00117905 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 148 1 where he said get the phone from Epstein his 2 time is up. 3 MS. NOEL: And when he came in, he said 4 I'm going to put him in the shower to use the 5 phone. 6 MR. : And that was the extent 7 of it? 8 MS. NOEL: That was the extent of it. 9 MR. : Okay. Nothing to do with 10 Epstein being housed with MCC or SHU? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Or the need for a 13 cellmate? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : Do you know who 16 authorized to provide Epstein with that 17 telephone call? 18 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 19 MR. : No. Who plugged the 20 telephone line into the legal line in the 21 shower area? 22 MS. NOEL: 23 MR. -: did. And do you 24 know if he did that per ' direction? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00117906 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 149 1 MR. : You're not sure. And to 2 you, that was an authorized practice? 3 MS. NOEL: To use the phone in the shower? 4 Yeah. 5 MR. : What is that line in the 6 shower area for? 7 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 8 MR. : Is it -? Okay. Is there 9 usually a phone that's plugged in there? Or is 10 it just a -- 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : -- line that's available? 13 MS. NOEL: The jack is there. 14 MR. : Just the jack. And you 15 know that to be a legal line like for 16 attorneys? 17 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 18 MR. : You don't know that 19 that's what that is - a legal line? 20 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 21 MR. : But what is just your 22 overall understanding briefly about policy for 23 inmates assigned to the SHU when they need to 24 make a phone call? How often do they get to do 25 it? How do they do it? EFTA00117907 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 150 1 MS. NOEL: Um. When they had them the 2 phone in the cell and they use that PIN - the 3 number - to make the phone call. How often, I 4 don't know. Because that's usually done before 5 I come in. But I know showers are every other 6 day. I don't know if phones is every other day 7 also. 8 MR. : Okay. So you're not 9 sure? 10 MS. NOEL: I'm not sure. 11 MR. : You said you didn't hear 12 any part of that telephone conversation? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : Did you see any part of 15 that telephone conversation? 16 MS. NOEL: Only when I went to go get it 17 from him. 18 MR. : But while he was on it? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Discussing? 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : And no one observed him? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : So no one watched him or 25 listened? EFTA00117908 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE lr_ 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : And no one informed you 3 to watch or listen? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : And previous instances 6 when people have used that line, were other - 7 were people watching and listening to those 8 people? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : And around what time was 11 Epstein brought back to his cell did you say? 12 MS. NOEL: Maybe about after 9:00. 13 MR. : So he did the telephone 14 call sometime before 9:00 and around after 9:00 15 is when he was put back into his cell? 16 MS. NOEL: Probably because I was in the 17 bathroom. 18 MR. : And you went to the 19 bathroom you think around 9:00? 20 MS. NOEL: I'm not sure. 21 MR. : Sure. 22 MS. NOEL: But around. 23 MR. : I'm not asking for 24 specifics. 25 MS. NOEL: Yeah. Like around. EFTA00117909 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 152 1 MR. : Around 9:00 p.m. 2 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : Okay. And you said 4 you're not the person who brought him. Someone 5 else did. After someone else brought him to 6 his cell, did you have any more conversations 7 with Epstein? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Okay. What - when was 10 that and where? 11 MS. NOEL: Not a conversation when I 12 counted. 13 MR. : When did you count? 14 MS. NOEL: At 10:00. 15 MR. : At 10:00 p.m. you 16 counted? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : So you actually went 19 through each tier and counted? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : And did you go into the 22 tier? Or did you just go up to the door? 23 MS. NOEL: I went into the tier. 24 MR. : Okay. So you didn't head 25 around at 10:00 p.m. you didn't stop at the EFTA00117910 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE ln 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 door and just look in? You actually went through? MS. NOEL: Yeah, I went through. MR. : And looked through and counted each person? MS. NOEL: Yes because he was on the floor. And I MR. just from the knocked. And he put his hand up. : Okay. So that wasn't outer door of the tier. MS. NOEL: No. MR. MS. NOEL: No, that was in there. That was actually -. MR. : Okay. And you said you don't know who brought him back to the cell. MS. NOEL: No I was in the bathroom. MR. : Okay. And when - around 10:00 p.m. you looked in and you said he was on the floor and he put his hand up? MS. NOEL: Yeah. He sleeps on the floor. The mattress - he puts the mattress on the floor. MR. : Okay. So you never actually see his bunk. He would sleep on the floor. MS. NOEL: The floor yeah. EFTA00117911 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 154 1 MR. : Take the mattress off the 2 bunk? 3 MS. NOEL: And put it on the floor. 4 MR. : Sleep there. Is that 5 typical? 6 MS. NOEL: For him. 7 MR. : For him? Which other 8 inmates do that? 9 MS. NOEL: Not in the SHU, but sometimes 10 they do that. 11 MR. : And is there anything up 12 with policy that prohibits people from doing 13 that? 14 MS. NOEL: Not that I know of. 15 MR. : No. So it wasn't 16 anything of concern? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Okay. But he - did you - 19 did he verbalize anything or just put his hand 20 up? 21 MS. NOEL: He put his hand up. 22 MR. : Just like, I'm accounted 23 for? 24 MS. NOEL: Right. 25 MR. : Okay. And is that after EFTA00117912 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 155 1 you said you knocked? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : And did you communicate 4 with him at all? 5 MS. NOEL: Mm.... 6 MR. : You okay? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : No. So it was just 9 knock and hand up. 10 MS. NOEL: Yes. 11 MR. : No communication. 12 MS. NOEL: None. 13 MR. : Just visualization. 14 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 15 MR. : And notice anything 16 different about him at that time? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : No. You said that was 19 around 10:00 p.m.? 20 MS. NOEL: I think he asked for the CPAP 21 machine to be plugged in because he had a CPAP 22 machine. 23 MR. : What's a CPAP machine? 24 MS. NOEL: When people have sleep apnea, I 25 guess they use that machine. EFTA00117913 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 156 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MS. NOEL: So the cord has to be ran from 3 outside of his room all the way down to be 4 plugged in. 5 MR. : It's for sleep apnea? 6 MS. NOEL: I don't know what else it's 7 for. But that's what I know people use it for. 8 MR. : And did you get it for 9 him? 10 MS. NOEL: It's in his room. It's just 11 for it to be plugged in. 12 MR. : Oh. And did you plug it 13 in for him? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : Okay. So you did have 16 some communication with him then? 17 MS. NOEL: Well he asked and I just 18 nodded. And I plugged it in. 19 MR. : So okay. So when I ask 20 you these things, I just really want you to be 21 clear with like -- 22 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. if there's 24 communications just really think about like 25 what communications you actually had. EFTA00117914 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : So just tell me about 3 specifically what you can remember. Because 4 again, if this is the last time you saw him. 5 Just try to recall -- 6 MS. NOEL: Remember it. 7 MR. : -- what it is he said. 8 MS. NOEL: I remember he put his hand up. 9 And he asked about the CPAP machine to be 10 plugged in. That's it. 11 MR. : Do you remember his 12 words? Like -- 13 MS. NOEL: NO. 14 MR. : -- did he say, "CPAP 15 machine." Or, "Can you plug this in for me?" 16 MS. NOEL: I don't remember how he said 17 it, but basically he asked for it to be plugged 18 in. But I don't remember exactly what he said 19 or how he said it. 20 MR. : Alright. So at that 21 point you went and plugged it in? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Alright. And that's like 24 a cord that runs like under his cell door or 25 something? EFTA00117915 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 158 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. And then any 3 conversations afterwards? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : No. Alright. Can you 6 just briefly explain the process of people 7 entering and exiting the SHU? 8 MS. NOEL: There's double doors. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MS. NOEL: And we open the doors to let 11 the person in. 12 MR. : So is there somebody that 13 they have to go through an outer door first to 14 get to your door? 15 MS. NOEL: Yeah. There's two doors. And 16 so they come in the first door, then the second 17 door, and then you're in the SHU. 18 MR. : How do they get into 19 first door? 20 MS. NOEL: We open the door. 21 MR. : Not the control center? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : So you're able to - from 24 the first door before they get to your door, 25 you open both doors? EFTA00117916 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 159 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. So the control 3 center, they don't call for it first and the 4 control center pops the first door? And then 5 you have keys for the second door? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : Alright. Okay. So I'm 8 going to stop talking. You tell me exactly how 9 they do it. Somebody knock or they call or 10 buzz or what? 11 MS. NOEL: Somebody knocks. Or sometimes 12 they use the radio. And then we go to the door 13 and open the door. 14 MR. : So do you have a - from 15 your desk is there a buzz to -? 16 MS. NOEL: No. You've got to open it with 17 a key. 18 MR. : The initial outer door? 19 MS. NOEL: Both doors. 20 MR. : So you go, you open the 21 inner door to you and then go to the 22 MS. NOEL: Door. 23 MR. : -- outer door -- 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : -- and do the second? EFTA00117917 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 160 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : And you have control over 3 both doors? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Alright. Does the 6 operations center also have control over that 7 outer door? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't know. I don't think 9 for SHU they do. I don't know. 10 MR. : Alright. Anytime people 11 enter and exit, you've always - 12 MS. NOEL: The person on the inside yes. 13 MR. : For both doors. 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : Alright. And that's the 16 same as when they leave? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : So after they leave that 19 second outer door -- 20 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. : -- you go, you lock that 22 manually -- 23 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : -- and then lock the 25 other one? EFTA00117918 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 161 1 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 2 MR. : Manually? Both manually 3 from the SHU? 4 MS. NOEL: If that one I think - the outer 5 one like once you pull it in it locks. 6 MR. : Okay. Which one is that? 7 MS. NOEL: The outer door. 8 MR. : The outer door. And who 9 entered and exited the SHU on August 9, 2019 10 between let's say for the first shift: 9:00 11 p.m. and 12:00 p.m. So if you have to open up 12 two doors, I'm assuming that's kind of a 13 process and there aren't many of you in there. 14 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 15 MR. : Lieutenant 16 MS. NOEL: No you said on the first shift? 17 MR. : First shift. From 9:00 18 p.m. to 12:00 a.m. - 12:00 a.m. sorry. 19 MS. NOEL: From - I don't know. 20 MR. : So it would be the people 21 that were in there. Correct? Would that be 22 and 23 MS. NOEL: . And me. 24 MR. : And you. Anyone else? 25 MS. NOEL: I'm trying to remember because EFTA00117919 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 162 1 you said between 9:00 p.m. and 12:00 a.m. 2 don't remember exactly when made her 3 rounds, but -. 4 MR. : Okay. would have 5 showed up at one time or another though? 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : Do you remember that 8 conversation when she showed up? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Did she talk to you about 11 anything? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : Did you specifically 14 speak to her at all? 15 MS. NOEL: I mean I said hey. 16 MR. : Just hey. 17 MR. : What's up. 18 MR. : Okay. And who allowed 19 to enter and exit? 20 MS. NOEL: I don't remember that. 21 MR. : Alright. Do you know who 22 - when and left, who allowed 23 them to leave? 24 MS. NOEL: Mm. I don't remember that. 25 MR. : You don't remember that. EFTA00117920 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1, 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Alright. And who was 3 present with you in the SHU after midnight? 4 From approximately 6:30, 6:33 a.m. on August 5 10, 2019? 6 MS. NOEL: Me and Thomas. 7 MR. : Anyone else? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : Visitors? 10 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 11 MR. : At around what time did 12 she visit? 13 MS. NOEL: I don't remember the time. 14 MR. : Does around 4:00 a.m. 15 sound right? 16 MS. NOEL: I don't remember the time. To 17 be honest. 18 MR. : Okay. Was there another 19 officer that you remember around like 5:30 a.m. 20 visiting? 21 MS. NOEL: No. The officer upstairs - he 22 left to go get food and come back. 23 MR. : So would that be 10 24 South? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00117921 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 164 1 MR. : Alright. And then when 2 he leaves 10 South to come to the SHU, do you 3 also have to allow him access into the SHU? Or 4 is he able to get into the SHU by himself? 5 MS. NOEL: Coming down from 10 South? 6 MR. : Mm-hmm. 7 MS. NOEL: Thomas relieved him. And then 8 he came down and went. 9 MR. : Thomas relieved the 10 person on 10 South? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : So Thomas wasn't assigned 13 to the SHU? He was assigned to 10 South. 14 MS. NOEL: He was assigned to the SHU. 15 MR. : So can you just explain 16 what you mean by relieved? You mean he relived 17 him temporarily while he got food? 18 MS. NOEL: He called and said that the 19 lieutenant said that he could go get his food. 20 So can one of us relieve him to go get his 21 food. So Thomas went, relieved him, and he 22 came down and he went out to get his food. 23 MR. : Okay. So you were the 24 only person in the SHU at that point? 25 MS. NOEL: Downstairs I guess. EFTA00117922 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 165 1 MR. : And Thomas? 2 MS. NOEL: As far as the time, I don't 3 know. 4 MR. : Okay. So are they the 5 only two people that were in the SHU between -? 6 MR. FOY: Do you want the context of when 7 that request from to get coverage to get 8 food? Because there's a context there. 9 MR. : Sure. I mean. 10 MR. FOY: Alright. So I want you to talk 11 about what you were doing before when he asked 12 you. Right. 13 MS. NOEL: Okay. 14 MR. FOY: You remember what you were 15 doing, right? 16 MS. NOEL: I remember what I was doing but 17 I -. 18 MR. FOY: This is a three event, there's a 19 five event, and then -. 20 MS. NOEL: Oh! Like I counted with 21 upstairs at that time. And when I came back 22 downstairs, he called and he said that the 23 lieutenant said to relive him to get food. I 24 didn't believe him, so I called the 25 lieutenant's office. And I said, did you say EFTA00117923 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 166 1 for me to relive to get food? But 2 another lieutenant came on, so he said well I 3 don't know if the lieutenant before said that. 4 So I said okay and I hung the phone up. And 5 Thomas said I'll go relieve him so he could go 6 get his food. 7 MR. : Okay. And I do 8 apologize. You counted with him? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : And you're talking about 11 the individual in 10 South. 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : And then you came back to 14 the SHU and then Thomas relieved him? 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : Um. 17 MS. NOEL: But I don't remember if it was 18 at the 3:00 or the 5:00. I don't remember 19 which one. 20 MR. : Alright. And I do 21 apologize. I just want to make sure I have 22 this clear. So when you went up at either 3:00 23 or 5:00, and I'm assuming it was 5:00, you 24 helped him count. And at that point he's 25 when he said he wanted to go get food? EFTA00117924 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 167 1 MS. NOEL: When I came back downstairs he 2 called. 3 MR. : Oh so not while you were 4 doing the count. 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : So you left. 7 MS. NOEL: Came back downstairs. 8 MR. : He called and said I just 9 spoke to the lieutenant? 10 MS. NOEL: He said the lieutenant said for 11 when you had to relieve me to get food. 12 MR. : And then you said you 13 verified that? 14 MS. NOEL: I called. 15 MR. : The lieutenant? 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : Was this both both times? Was that who it was? 19 MS. NOEL: No. When I called, Lieutenant 20 answered and he said he didn't know. 21 MR. : SO it was Lieutenant 22 . So this would have been at like 5:30 23 then probably? 24 MS. NOEL: Probably. 25 MR. : Okay. If you look at the EFTA00117925 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 168 1 schedule, can you tell me what time came 2 on? 3 MS. NOEL: On here it says 8:00 to 4:00. 4 MR. : Are you looking at 8/10 - 5 August 10th? 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. But it was before that. 7 It was (Indiscernible *02:00:18). 8 MR. : Oh, sorry. So there's a 9 little caveat there. So the officers' times 10 are two hours before, do he would have started 11 at 6:00. But I believe he actually - his would 12 be 6:00 to 2:00 as opposed to 8:00 to 4:00 like 13 the roster. So it's confusing. Um, they 14 allowed the lieutenants to come in two hours 15 earlier and end their shift two earlier. 16 MS. NOEL: Hm. 17 MR. : But I do believe he 18 arrived at 5:30. So this would have been 19 probably you said - you said there were two 20 different lieutenants you spoke to. So I'm 21 assuming one - 22 MS. NOEL: No I spoke to Lieutenant 23 asking did he say for me to relive Thomas to 24 get the food. So he said he doesn't know. 25 Maybe Lieutenant told him. But I EFTA00117926 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 169 1 didn't speak to her. 2 MR. : Sure. And what I'm - I 3 think that he started around 5:30. So he 4 probably called around like 5:28, spoke with 5 lieutenant - and then you probably called 6 shortly after 5:30. Does that sound like 7 potentially could have happened? 8 MS. NOEL: Could have. Yes. 9 MR. : Okay. So does around 10 that 5:30 timeframe right before you know you 11 were going to feed the inmates. Does that 12 sound about right? 13 MS. NOEL: Right. 14 MR. : Okay. So the 5:00 a.m. 15 count. That (Indiscernible *02:01:18)? 16 MS. NOEL: Right. 17 MR. : Okay. So he is - and I'm 18 sorry, who was in the 10 South? 19 MS. NOEL: 20 MR. : It was and then who 21 else visited the SHU where Epstein was housed 22 between 12:00 a.m. and 6:30? 23 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 24 MR. : Are they the only two 25 people that visited the SHU aside from you and EFTA00117927 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 170 1 Thomas? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. No one else? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : Okay. When you were in 6 the SHU with Thomas, was there a hierarchy 7 then? 8 MS. NOEL: On the paper it says that I was 9 the number on. 10 MR. : And would that be - I 11 know you said a lot of time it's because you're 12 new, you would ask other people for guidance. 13 Is that because that was your quarterly post? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. The post. 15 MR. : And was Thomas in there 16 as an overtime post? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : Not his regular 19 assignment? 20 MS. NOEL: Correct. 21 MR. : Okay. So on paper, you 22 were in charge. But in practice, you're both 23 the same. 24 MS. NOEL: In practice, I ask because I 25 don't know. So even if I'm in charge, I don't EFTA00117928 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 171 1 know everything because I'm new. So I ask the 2 senior officer. 3 MR. : Okay. Do you remember 4 any conversations you had with Thomas that 5 night? 6 MS. NOEL: As far as -? 7 MR. : Just were you conversing? 8 While you were there? Just the two of you? 9 MS. NOEL: I'm not -. 10 MR. : I'm not asking for what 11 conversations at this point. I'm just saying 12 were you talking to one another? 13 MS. NOEL: No not really. 14 MR. : You guys didn't really 15 communicate or talk? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : Okay. Do you remember 18 any conversations with regard to Epstein at 19 all? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : No. Alright. So it's 22 just you two, you said and 23 . The only four people from that - those 24 periods when you started your shift at 12:00 25 a.m. to 6:30? EFTA00117929 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Correct. 2 MR. : What was the purpose of 3 visit? 4 MS. NOEL: To conduct a round. 5 MR. : Okay. And what is she 6 required to do during a round? 7 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 8 MR. : Are you aware if she was 9 supposed to conduct a count with you during her 10 round? Or -? 11 MS. NOEL: She's not supposed to conduct 12 the count. But I don't know how she's supposed 13 to conduct her rounds. 14 MR. : So do you understand if 15 her round is at a round of her staff members? 16 Or is it also she's supposed to do anything 17 with inmates when she does rounds? 18 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 19 MR. : You don't know. And do 20 you remember when she entered and exited the 21 SHU who let her in and out? 22 MS. NOEL: I did. 23 MR. : Both times? Both in and 24 out? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00117930 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 173 1 MR. : Okay. And then what 2 about when departed the SHU? Who let him 3 in and out? 4 MS. NOEL: That I don't remember. 5 MR. : Would it be -? 6 MS. NOEL: But it probably would have been 7 me. 8 MR. : -- you since Thomas 9 relived him -- 10 MS. NOEL: Right. Went upstairs. 11 MR. : -- Correct? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : I would think Thomas went 14 up there, then you probably would have 15 MS. NOEL: Let them out. Mm-hmm. 16 MR. : Okay. And both with 17 and you verified that that 18 those doors were shut and sealed? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : And no one else got in 21 and out between those times? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : And were they - those two 24 individuals authorized visitors - and 25 authorized visits - within the SHU? EFTA00117931 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 174 1 MS. NOEL: Who Lieutenant 2 MR. : Was their presence in the 3 SHU authorized? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Was it justified. And 6 did you see them the entire time that they were 7 actually in the SHU? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Was there anything out of 10 the ordinary? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : No. Any - either of them 13 have any conversations about Epstein? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : And you say 16 was the operations lieutenant on August 10th? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : Did you have any 19 conversations with her on the phone? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : That you recall? No. 22 What about like when you guys would call in 23 counts? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't remember who took the 25 count, but when I got called control to give EFTA00117932 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 175 1 the count, I don't remember if it was her that 2 took the count. But. 3 MR. : Okay. So you don't 4 recall any other conversations with 5 aside from when she visited at 4:00 to 6 check in? 7 MS. NOEL: Correct. 8 MR. : And she never provided 9 any special instructions? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : About anything during 12 that shift? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : She never told - 15 never told you that Epstein was 16 required to have a cellmate? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Didn't ask about Reyes or 19 anything? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Or about a new cellmate 22 being place in? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Alright. And we just 25 briefly mentioned that who was Lieutenant EFTA00117933 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 176 1 2 MS. NOEL: The lieutenant that came on in 3 the morning. 4 MR. : Okay. And he started - 5 we believe around 5:30 based upon what we just 6 talked about. 7 MS. NOEL: Correct. 8 MR. : Okay, 5:30 a.m. on August 9 10th. And during that conversation, you said 10 that you called Lieutenant What all was 11 spoken about during that call? 12 MS. NOEL: If I should relive to get 13 food. If that's what he said. 14 MR. : Any discussion about 15 inmates? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : Any discussion about 18 Epstein? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : No. He didn't' provide 21 any special instructions or ask about anything 22 about your shift? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : About him coming on? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00117934 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 177 1 MR. : No. Do you remember if 2 the control center, R&D, or anyone else called 3 the SHU on August 9th or 10th during your two 4 shifts? About Epstein's cellmate leaving? 5 MS. NOEL: I don't know. If they did, 6 they didn't speak to me. 7 MR. : You didn't speak with 8 anybody? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : R&D or anyone else?› 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : If an inmate is removed 13 from the SHU and is released from the MCC, how 14 does the SHU find out? 15 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 16 MR. : You don't know? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Has that ever happened to 19 you before? 20 MS. NOEL: Where an inmate had gone? No. 21 MR. : When an inmate goes to 22 court or something and then is released? 23 MS. NOEL: But I don't -. If that 24 happens, like give the phone to the senior 25 officer because I don't know. But that never EFTA00117935 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 178 1 happened where like an inmate was released when 2 I'm there. 3 MR. : So from 4:00 p.m. on 4 August 9th, you don't recall that call coming 5 in -- 6 MS. NOEL: NO. 7 MR. : -- or a discussion 8 happening -- 9 MS. NOEL: Not to me. 10 MR. : -- about Reyes not coming 11 back? 12 MS. NOEL: Not to me. No. 13 MR. : And you didn't have 14 conversation with anybody at all? 15 MS. NOEL: Nope. 16 MR. : And you don't know if 17 control or R&D or anybody spoke with anyone 18 else? 19 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 20 MR. : Even if they didn't 21 discuss the details of it. You didn't overhear 22 that conversation? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : So what is your 25 understanding? If Reyes is released on August EFTA00117936 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 179 1 9th from the SHU. Epstein is required to have 2 a cellmate. What should have happened? 3 MS. NOEL: I don't know what should have 4 happened because when I came in at 4:00, the 5 cell was empty. So I don't know what should 6 have happened. Epstein came back and went to 7 his cell. I don't know where Reyes is or if 8 he's coming back. So I don't know what should 9 have happened. 10 MR. : Okay. So if an inmate is 11 required to have a cellmate, such as Epstein, 12 when the cellmate -. Sorry, I don't know if I 13 just misspoke. If Epstein was required to have 14 a cellmate, as Epstein was, after his cellmate 15 departs, which was Reyes, do you know if 16 there's a - how long it should take for him to 17 get replaced? 18 MS. NOEL: Oh. I don't know. 19 MR. : You don't know that? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Do you know who the 22 decision-makers would be on that? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 24 MR. : Do you know if you were 25 authorized to assign Epstein a cellmate? EFTA00117937 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 180 1 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 2 MR. : Again, no conversations 3 at all with -? 4 MS. NOEL: None. 5 MR. : He's gone. No? Um and 6 you don't remember him being removed from the 7 roster list so when you're doing your rounds 8 and your counts. 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : You know how many are 11 supposed to be counting. 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : Alright. We're just 14 going to talk a little bit about counts and 15 rounds. According to you, what is a cell count 16 and you have it in front of you if you need to 17 refer to the policy. But what is your 18 understanding of a cell count? Or sorry, an 19 inmate count. 20 MS. NOEL: You count every inmate to make 21 sure that they're alive. 22 MR. : To make sure that they're 23 alive? And accounted for? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Alright. And can you EFTA00117938 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 181 1 just explain the process? 2 MS. NOEL: The first officer goes down and 3 counts. And then the second officer goes down 4 and counts. And we confirm the numbers. 5 MR. : Okay. And prior to 6 confirming the numbers, do you tell the other 7 officer how many you counted? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : Alright. So you get your 10 number, then another officer goes down, gets 11 their number. 12 MS. NOEL: And when they come back. 13 MR. : And is that tier by tier 14 or do you -? 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. Tier by tier. 16 MR. : Tier by tier. Just one 17 person stands outside while the other person -- 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : -- goes down range and 20 counts the inmates? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : So do you have to like 23 see the person moving, see - what do you need 24 to do when you're doing that count? 25 MS. NOEL: You need to see the prisoner EFTA00117939 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 182 1 move. 2 MR. : Do you have to like talk 3 to them? Make sure they're responsive or 4 anything? 5 MS. NOEL: Or you could see them 6 breathing. 7 MR. : Just as long as you see 8 some life. Okay. So what are the requirements 9 in the SHU on how often is a count conducted 10 for counts? 11 MS. NOEL: Counts is at 4:00. I mean it's 12 been a long time. I really don't remember. 13 But I think 4:00, 10:00, 12:00, 3:00, and 5:00. 14 MR. : Okay. So 4:00 p.m., 15 10:00 p.m., 12:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m., and 5:00 16 a.m.? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : And is that every day or 19 is it Monday through Friday? Do you know? 20 MS. NOEL: Every day. 21 MR. : Every day. And you're 22 just making sure they're alive. You don't 23 actually have to speak with them? 24 MS. NOEL: No you don't. 25 MR. : Okay. And what's the EFTA00117940 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 183 1 difference? What's a round? 2 MS. NOEL: I mean the round you're walking 3 down the tier basically checking to see if 4 they're okay. But you're not counting. You're 5 just checking to make sure. 6 MR. : So you're doing the same 7 thing you're just not counting -- 8 MS. NOEL: Counting. 9 MR. : -- the inmates? Alright. 10 So you're making sure that they're okay and 11 they're alive. But you're not just -- 12 MS. NOEL: Counting. 13 MR. : -- actually making sure 14 they're -. 15 MS. NOEL: Yeah like you don't need a 16 number. 17 MR. : But one CO goes down, 18 checks, and then does the other one? Or does 19 there only need to be one? 20 MS. NOEL: Well it's one. 21 MR. : So both don't need to 22 actually do that? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Alright. So just one CO 25 goes down. Does the other CO have to remain at EFTA00117941 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 184 1 the door to make sure that CO is okay? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. So is that the 4 difference then? 5 MS. NOEL: Between the counts and the 6 rounds. Yes. 7 MR. : Only one CO is required 8 and that's per your understanding of policy. 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : Okay. And during a 11 round, do you have to speak with the inmates? 12 MS. NOEL: You don't have to. 13 MR. : No? But on both 14 instances both COs have to be present. You're 15 just saying with rounds, only one CO actually 16 needs to go down. 17 MR. : Go down range. Yeah. 18 MR. : You said the purpose is 19 to make sure they're okay and they're alive? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : And are they - are the 22 counts and the rounds both documented? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : And do you have to sign 25 documents when you conduct counts and rounds? EFTA00117942 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 185 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. Now if you and 3 another officer like on the case of when you 4 work 12:00 a.m. to 8:00 a.m. If you and 5 another officer are the only ones assigned to 6 the SHU, are you both just as responsible for 7 documenting the round sheets and the count 8 slips? So if you're the one documenting all 9 the rounds for the 30-minute rounds, is your 10 documentation - does that also carry weight for 11 the other person that's with you? Are you 12 signing for both of you? 13 MS. NOEL: I don't think so because it's 14 just my signature. 15 MR. : So you would take 16 responsibility for the cell count rather than 17 saying that you're both responsible? Or the 18 round -? 19 MS. NOEL: Well the rounds and the counts 20 have to be done with two people. 21 MR. : But -. 22 MS. NOEL: But on the -. 23 MR. : Let me just show you so 24 you know what I'm talking about. I'm just 25 going to show you for August 9th and 10th the EFTA00117943 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 186 1 cell counts and the rounds so that there's no 2 misunderstanding. So this first one is going 3 to be the 8/9/2019 for the 30-minute check 4 sheet. And the other one is going to be 5 8/10/2019. Can you just let me know if you see 6 your handwriting and initials on these two 7 documents? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Okay. Do you see it on 10 both? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : Okay. And I guess we'll 13 first discuss August 9th. Where do you see it 14 and from what time to what time? 15 MS. NOEL: From 4:00 to 11:30. 16 MR. : And are you ever one of 17 them? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : Okay. So every 30 20 minutes, you have your initials. And you wrote 21 those. That's actually your initials on that 22 one? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : And what about on August 25 10, 2019? EFTA00117944 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 187 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. So what I'm asking 3 here is by you placing those initials is that 4 now fall on you? Or if you're only two people 5 in there like on August 10th -- 6 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. : -- are you basically 8 signing for both people? Or do you think 9 you're only signing for yourself there avowing 10 that the round was conducted. 11 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. NOEL: I guess because like you're 14 trying to say if the rounds have to be 15 conducted with two people, when I sign it would 16 be -. I don't know. 17 MR. : Okay. But you did sign 18 and certify that they were conducted? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : Okay. And what do you do 21 with the rounds - the sheets - how are they 22 maintained? 23 MS. NOEL: Well I usually fill it out like 24 prior in hopes to conduct the round. Like when 25 I work in the SHU, I've never actually done the EFTA00117945 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 188 1 round every 30 minutes. Like when you go down 2 to give out toilet paper, that's counted as a 3 round. To pick up trays, it's counted as a 4 round. To give out food, that's counted as a 5 round. But and then you fill it out either 6 after or before. You're not sitting like every 7 30 minutes like filling it out. 8 MR. : Okay. And you're - you 9 said you do it a lot of times prior to actually 10 conducting the round? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : Alright. And with 13 rounds, do you call anybody with that 14 information? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : What's done with the 17 sheet? Is it at the end of the shift something 18 done with it? Are they logged into the BOP 19 database at all? What happens with those 20 sheets? 21 MS. NOEL: I don't know. Because it's 22 left on the table. I don't know what they do 23 with them. 24 MR. : So as far as you know, 25 you just fill it out and you leave it there? EFTA00117946 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 189 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. You don't ever 3 provide it to anyone. 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : And you don't ever go 6 into any BOP database and enter those rounds. 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Do you know if someone 9 else does? 10 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 11 MR. : You don't know. Okay. 12 What about with counts? Do you call people 13 after you do the counts? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. Control. 15 MR. : You call control? 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : And do you recall on 18 August 9th or August 10th you called - did you 19 call anyone with those numbers? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. And do you 22 remember which counts you called? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't remember which. 24 MR. : You know you did some of 25 them you just don't remember specifically which EFTA00117947 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 190 1 ones? 2 MS. NOEL: Which ones. 3 MR. : Okay. And do you 4 remember speaking with lieutenants when you're 5 there or with regular officers assigned to the 6 control center? 7 MS. NOEL: I don't remember who I spoke 8 to. 9 MR. : You don't remember. Well 10 with the count slips, you said you just leave 11 those round slips on the table. When you're 12 done - when you do the count slips, what do you 13 do with those slips? 14 MS. NOEL: We did the same thing. We 15 filled them out before. 16 MR. : Before you actually 17 conduct the count before you filled them out. 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : So before actually even 20 getting the number, you fill out the number? 21 MS. NOEL: Because we know the number. 22 MR. : Okay. So do you then 23 call somebody with the number? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Who do you call? EFTA00117948 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 191 1 MS. NOEL: Control. 2 MR. : Control? Okay. And you 3 provide them the number that you wrote on that 4 document? 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : Sorry, we did this. My 7 question was supposed to be what do you do with 8 the physical pieces of paper? 9 MS. NOEL: Stick it in the door and then 10 internal takes it. 11 MR. : So no one actually comes 12 in -- 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : -- to the SHU? You stick 15 it in what door? 16 MS. NOEL: The outer door. 17 MR. : So you open up the 18 interior - the inner door and then you go to 19 the outer door and you -- 20 MS. NOEL: Stick it in there. 21 MR. : -- there's like a special 22 slot for it? 23 MS. NOEL: Not a slot. It's just between 24 the door. 25 MR. : Okay. Internal never EFTA00117949 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 192 1 comes in though? 2 MS. NOEL: They didn't that day. I don't 3 know if they ever come in, but they didn't 4 (Indiscernible *02:17:51). 5 MR. : Okay. On August 9, 2019, 6 you said you filled all that out. What rounds 7 did you conduct during your shift on August 9, 8 2019? 9 MS. NOEL: That's hard for me to tell 10 because I didn't conduct it every 30 minutes. 11 It was give out food, pick up the trays, give 12 out toilet paper, go down. So those were the 13 rounds that I conducted. Bu it don't. 14 MR. : So you were counting a 15 round as just doing something with an inmate? 16 MS. NOEL: Yes because I actually 17 physically walked. 18 MR. : Every tier all six? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : Is there six tiers in the 21 SHU? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. : Two floors - two levels. 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. Yes. EFTA00117950 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 193 1 MR. : So when you do these 2 rounds, when you would go down range and handle 3 an inmate or give something to an inmate, you 4 would then also do all six? 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : Alright. So about how 7 often -. Let's ask it a different way. About 8 how many of those didn't you do on August 9th? 9 MS. NOEL: I don't know. I can't give a 10 number of how much I didn't do. But. 11 MR. : Are some of those that 12 were documented, were they not done? 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : Alright. So you didn't 15 do some of them. You just don't know which -- 16 MS. NOEL: Ones. 17 MR. : -- ones? 18 MS. NOEL: Right. 19 MR. : Alright. And -. Okay. 20 MR. FOY: Let me just say to help clarify. 21 MR. : Absolutely. 22 MR. FOY: The times that you wrote down. 23 MS. NOEL: Okay. 24 MR. FOY: Right? 25 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. EFTA00117951 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 194 1 MR. FOY: When did you write the times 2 down? 3 MS. NOEL: Before. 4 MR. FOY: Alright. So when you did a 5 round to take toilet paper, did you change the 6 time to reflect that particular round? Did you 7 do anything with the paperwork to change -- 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. FOY: -- the actual time? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : And why did you do that? 12 Is it because of the requirement? 13 MS. NOEL: Why did I fill -? 14 MR. : Why did you fill these 15 ahead of time? Were you just trying to stay on 16 top of what the actual requirement was to 17 conduct a 30-minute round was? 18 MS. NOEL: I mean I don't know why I did 19 it. I just always did it that way. 20 MR. : Did someone train you to 21 do it that way? 22 MS. NOEL: I mean I've seen it done that 23 way before - after. And three's people that 24 actually do it as they do it. It's been done 25 all three different ways. EFTA00117952 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 195 1 MR. : Some do it before, some 2 do it during, some do it after? 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : And just this instance 5 you did it all before? 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : Alright. And some - at 8 least some of them. Would you say the majority 9 were not done or were done? 10 MS. NOEL: On the 9th? Majority was done. 11 MR. : You believe the majority. 12 Now I know we're doing estimates because you 13 don't know exactly. You think like 51% or do 14 you think -? 15 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 16 MR. : You don't know. 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Alright. But again, for 19 the ones that you did do, you're not just going 20 down one tier. 21 MS. NOEL: No 22 MR. : You're going down all six 23 tiers? 24 MS. NOEL: I'm doing all. 25 MR. : You are? EFTA00117953 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 196 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : And that's - this is the 3 under-oath thing. We've got to make sure 4 because the video is and all that kind of 5 stuff. 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : That's your 8 understanding? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : Alright. That you're 11 actually checking every door. 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : And when you go give that 14 one-person toilet paper or whatever, you're 15 actually looking at all the different doors? 16 MR. FOY: Can we take a break real quick? 17 Because I need to take a break. 18 MR. : Absolutely. 19 MR. FOY: (Indiscernible *02:20:53) 20 MR. : Yeah-yeah. Absolutely. 21 Alright. So it is currently 12:35 p.m. We are 22 going to take a quick break. [Whereupon, the 23 above-entitled matter went off the record and 24 went back on the record.] The recorder is back 25 on. This is Senior Special Agent EFTA00117954 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 '- 1 . It is 12:49 p.m. Ms. Noel, I 2 remind you this is a voluntary interview and 3 you are under oath. 4 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : Alright. Is there 6 anything that we wanted to revise before we 7 continue? 8 MR. FOY: Yeah. I want her to go back. 9 This was from earlier about the double door. 10 How they operate. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. FOY: I think there were some 13 unintentional inaccuracies on that. 14 MR. : Sure. 15 MR. FOY: That we clarified. So let's 16 start with that first. 17 MS. NOEL: The outer door control pops the 18 outer door. I control the inner door. So the 19 outer door can only be opened by control. 20 MR. : Okay. So we were talking 21 about like popping the -. It was just your 22 memory was foggy? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't remember a lot of 24 stuff. But yeah. The outer door, you have to 25 call control to pop the 27 door. And we EFTA00117955 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 198 1 control the inner door. 2 MR. : Okay. And then just 3 while we're going back. It's something I was 4 probably going to follow-up on later. But 5 there's been a ton of questions of like you 6 don't know. 7 MS. NOEL: Yes. 8 MR. : I just want to remind you 9 - you did go to the Federal Law Enforcement 10 Training Center -- 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : -- where you were trained 13 as a correctional officer. And you also 14 received this IF training which I think you 15 said was like a two-week in-house training. 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : Is that what that was? 18 As well as you received the annual training. 19 And all this stuff that we're talking about 20 isn't like the real detailed stuff. This is 21 like you know conducting counts and rounds. 22 And the essential duties as a correctional 23 officer. So I'm assuming you -. Is it safe to 24 assume that you received this training you know 25 during those trainings? I know you didn't go EFTA00117956 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 199 1 to the SHU trainings. But not too far from 2 when this happened, you were only on for a 3 little over a year. And you conducted all 4 three of those trainings. Correct? 5 MS. NOEL: I was only on for a little 6 under a year. The training that I received in 7 Georgia is specific to camps and not 8 necessarily high rises. And the in-house 9 training, the roster reflects all these 10 trainings but we didn't' actually receive all 11 the training because sometimes there was nobody 12 to train us. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. NOEL: So when I say I don't know, I 15 don't know. 16 MR. : Yeah, no. It's just 17 almost every question. I feel like we've gone 18 through 18 pages so far and so many of them are 19 20 MS. NOEL: Because I really -. 21 MR. : -- like I don't know. 22 So. 23 MS. NOEL: I really don't know. 24 MR. : Alright. It's just 25 because you know people are going to say like EFTA00117957 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 200 1 well you went to all these trainings. You 2 should know at least some of this stuff. So I 3 just wanted to try to get you to like think 4 back on your training. 5 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : And your duties and your 7 responsibilities when I'm asking these 8 questions just so you can really like think. 9 Do I really now know or is that you know, did I 10 know that these things should be done. Does 11 that make sense? 12 MS. NOEL: Correct. 13 MR. : And then um 14 MR. : Can I say -? 15 MR. : Yes, please. 16 MR. : Just to clarify. I know you 17 might not have received some of the official 18 trainings. Some of this stuff you might learn 19 along the way. 20 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. : From your daily duties. 22 MS. NOEL: Right. 23 MR. : Like it's repetitive. Some 24 of the stuff that you do. So you might have 25 known this based on the fact that you've done EFTA00117958 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 201 1 it on a daily basis. So if you say I don't 2 know and you actually done it as part of your 3 daily duties, it kind of contradicts each 4 other. 5 MS. NOEL: I understand. 6 MR. : And I just had a question. 7 You mentioned the door. Was at any point in 8 time - on the 9th, 10th or - was there a 9 practice to ever leave the doors propped open 10 in the SHU? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Alright. I think my last 13 question, I just want to revisit it just to 14 make sure that we're of the same understanding. 15 So again when you're pre-populating all of 16 these rounds. Correct? 17 MS. NOEL: Correct. 18 MR. : But you're saying you 19 believe you did more than 50% of the rounds 20 that were listed. 21 MS. NOEL: I can't give you a percentage - 22 23 MR. : Sure. 24 MS. NOEL: -- because I don't know how to 25 put a percentage to a round. But I can only EFTA00117959 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 202 1 tell you that I conducted rounds as I went to 2 go do something. But I can't give you a 3 number. 4 MR. : And I want to make sure 5 we understand too, if you're going down range 6 to give some inmate like toilet paper or 7 something, that you're also at that time where 8 you're saying you did a round, not just talking 9 about that tier, but all six tiers. 10 MS. NOEL: Yes. 11 MR. : Alright. So you're going 12 down to give somebody a toilet paper. At that 13 point -- 14 MS. NOEL: Because I'm giving toilet paper 15 to everybody. 16 MR. : Alright. So you're not 17 just addressing one inmate. 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : You're saying when you're 20 giving everybody toilet paper. 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : So on August 9th -. 23 MS. NOEL: When I'm giving food, I give 24 everybody food. When I'm collecting trays, I'm 25 collecting all the trays. I'm giving toilet EFTA00117960 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2i 1 paper. 2 MR. : So aside from eh times 3 you're now giving toilet paper and giving food 4 and collecting trays, which are a handful of 5 those times, granted. 6 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. : Are you doing any other 8 rounds? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. And if somebody calls 10 MR. : On August 9th -- 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : -- we're talking about. 13 MS. NOEL: On the 9th. If somebody calls 14 and asks for something, yes, I conduct a round. 15 MR. : And that's kind of what 16 I'm getting at. You're - if you're handling 17 one specific inmate, because they called and 18 asked for something. You're then also 19 addressing the other five tiers? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. NOEL: Because usually when one calls, 23 everybody else hears and everybody wants 24 something. So I just do it. 25 MR. : Alright. So on August EFTA00117961 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 204 1 9th, you didn't conduct all the documented 2 rounds. 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : But you did do some of 5 them? 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : And you don't have a -- 8 MS. NOEL: A number. 9 MR. : -- half or anything -- 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : -- like that. Okay. 12 MR. FOY: But I think the clear point is 13 when she did it, it's not based on the times on 14 the paper. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MR. FOY: Right? So that doesn't match. 17 MR. : Alright. So -. 18 MR. FOY: The times she did it versus the 19 time on the paper. Because that paper is done 20 at the beginning of the shift. With the time 21 already selected. 22 MR. : Oh, are you filling out 23 the entire paper at the beginning of the shift? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Oh! So you're not doing EFTA00117962 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 205 1 it every 30 minutes just prepopulating before 2 you do the round. 3 MR. FOY: Right. 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : You're going at the very 6 beginning of the shift, filling everything out 7 the -. 8 MS. NOEL: Yes, sir. 9 MR. : So that -. When did you 10 fill out the August 9th round sheet? 11 MS. NOEL: Like how the numbers are like 12 the round sheets before, like the times. So I 13 just fill it out because that's what I've seen 14 being done. Like it's filled out before or 15 sometimes at the end after. So I fill it out 16 all before. 17 MR. : Okay. So you 18 prepopulated that entire thing at the very 19 beginning of your shift? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : And then you just 22 conducted rounds as needed? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : Alright. And you've seen 25 people do that? EFTA00117963 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 206 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Who else have you seen do 3 that? 4 MS. NOEL: I mean I don't have a specific 5 name, but I've seen it done. 6 MR. : Did anyone ever tell you 7 to do that? 8 MS. NOEL: This is actually I think the 9 first time I've ever done the round sheets 10 because I've never actually done the round 11 sheets in the SHU. But those two days were the 12 days that I've done the round sheets in the 13 SHU. 14 MR. : So if this was your first 15 time doing a round sheet, did someone instruct 16 you on how to do it? 17 MS. NOEL: No because I just followed what 18 I seen. But I've worked with people before 19 that was filling it out and that's how it's 20 been done. 21 MR. : And did you have 22 discussions with them when you were -? 23 MS. NOEL: No. I never had a discussion 24 about it. 25 MR. : So you just observed EFTA00117964 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2-- 1 people doing this? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : But no one ever told you 4 to do that? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : And did you know that it 7 was wrong to do that? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : You didn't know that it 10 was wrong to prepopulate the rounds you 11 conducted when you weren't conducting those 12 rounds? 13 MS. NOEL: No. I mean if I'm putting the 14 time on there saying that I conducted the round 15 at this time, and I didn't conduct the round at 16 this time, that's wrong. But I didn't think it 17 was wrong to fill it out all before or after 18 because that's how they do it. 19 MR. : So that's a contradicting 20 statement. You know that it's not right to 21 conduct a round at the time that you conducted 22 it, but you didn't know that it was wrong to 23 (Indiscernible *02:28:16). 24 MR. FOY: She knows that now. But this is 25 the way it was done. EFTA00117965 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 208 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. FOY: She followed. But like when you 3 look at the policy and now that we're here and 4 we've had discussions. Okay. That's not how 5 it's supposed to work. 6 MR. : But at the time that 7 you're filling this out on August 9th at the 8 beginning of your shift saying that you 9 conducted these rounds at a time that they 10 weren't conducted yet. You had to have known 11 that that wasn't -. Maybe you saw people doing 12 the wrong thing, but you couldn't have possibly 13 thought that that was correct. 14 MS. NOEL: Well I -. 15 MR. : Because you're falsely 16 certifying that rounds are completed when you 17 didn't. There's times even that they're events 18 in the future. 19 MS. NOEL: I understand but I didn't know 20 that. I just followed whatever I saw that was 21 being done. 22 MR. : I absolutely understand 23 the defense that you said other people have 24 done this and you're following their guidance. 25 But you can't possibly think that it's okay to EFTA00117966 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 209 1 fill out certifications saying that you 2 conducted rounds in the future that haven't 3 taken place and that you actually didn't do at 4 the same time. Is that something being lost in 5 translation? Do you follow what I'm asking 6 you? Do you think it's okay to sign on the 7 round sheet that you conducted a time -? 8 Conducted a round -? 9 MS. NOEL: But it's the same thing as the 10 end. Like if I do it all at the end at the 11 times that I'm putting, I'm not going to 12 remember all those times specifically. 13 MR. : Absolutely. I would also 14 argue that anytime you're falsifying a record, 15 you always know that that's wrong. 16 MS. NOEL: So. But. I mean. 17 MR. : So I do understand that 18 you're saying other people do it. And that's 19 why I want to get into who else is doing this? 20 Who trained you on that? How do you know that 21 was the way that things were done? So that's 22 where my question of who talked to you about 23 it. You said no one actually spoke to you 24 about it. But you 25 MS. NOEL: No. I just seen people do EFTA00117967 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 210 1 that. 2 MR. : -- observed people. So 3 who did you -- 4 MS. NOEL: Because I never had 5 MR. : -- observe do that? 6 MS. NOEL: I never had a conversation with 7 about filling out round sheets. 8 MR. : Right. So if that's 9 going to be the argument that you're doing it 10 based upon your training and experience, I need 11 to know more about this training and 12 experience. Who is it that you experienced do 13 this in the past? 14 MS. NOEL: People that I've worked with. 15 MR. : So I'd like you to think 16 about alright, I know this because I saw that 17 person do it. Who? 18 MS. NOEL: Um. 19 MR. : So you've witnessed 20 prepopulate or at the end of the shift? 21 MS. NOEL: I don't remember exactly. But 22 it's done either or the way. 23 MR. : Alright so you saw 24 and who else? 25 MS. NOEL: EFTA00117968 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 211 1 MR. , is that the SOS 2 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : No. A different 5 What's - is a gentleman's name? 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : What's that person's name 8 - first name? 9 MS. NOEL: I don't know the first name. 10 MR. -: who worked in the 11 SHU? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : You mentioned before. 14 Is it 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MS. NOEL: Um. 18 MR. : Say that again? 19 MS. NOEL: 20 MR. : It's like (Indiscernible 21 *02:32:40). 22 MR. FOY: It's a first or last name? 23 MR. -: ? Is the first name 24 25 MS. NOEL: EFTA00117969 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 212 1 MR. FOY: Oh. 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. FOY: 4 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : Anyone else aside from 6 those three people? 7 MS. NOEL: I never seen 8 MR. 9 MR. _: 10 MR. -: ? Alright. So 11 in the recollections of the three people that 12 you named, what did you observe them do? 13 MS. NOEL: Fill it out after or fill it 14 out before. 15 MR. : And was that on numerous 16 occasions? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : Alright. So during your 19 time in the SHU, which I think was from around 20 June 24, 2019 through August 10th, was it on 21 many of those days that you were working in the 22 SHU - this is how it was done? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : Where the rounds weren't 25 conducted and they were prepopulated or EFTA00117970 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 213 1 populated at the end? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : And it was never spoken 4 of? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : And you never asked? Hey 7 why are we you know certifying that we're 8 conducting rounds that we're not actually 9 conducting? 10 MS. NOEL: I never asked. 11 MR. : Never asked? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : And they never told you 14 to do that though? 15 MS. NOEL: Who? 16 MR. : No one ever told you that 17 this is the way that it's done? 18 MS. NOEL: I mean that's the way that I've 19 seen them do it. But no one ever 20 MR. : You observed it. You saw 21 that people did that. 22 MS. NOEL: Because I never asked so noboay 23 ever told me. But that's just what I saw. 24 MR. : So on August 9th, you 25 believe that's the first time you filled the EFTA00117971 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 214 1 sheet out. No one actually directed you or 2 instructed you that's how we do it, you just 3 saw people do it that way? 4 MS. NOEL: Right. 5 MR. : Alright. And this goes 6 back to -. I understand - your attorney did 7 say that you know now that it was wrong. 8 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 9 MR. : But at the time, you 10 thought it was okay to certify times that you 11 know you conducted rounds when they weren't 12 conducted? 13 MS. NOEL: Because that's the culture of 14 it there. I didn't consider it as being like 15 I'm falsifying a time or a document. No I 16 didn't. 17 MR. : Is this something that's 18 addressed in training and policy? Hey when you 19 conduct a round, it's documented? At the time 20 you conducted it. 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : So it's not in the policy 23 that I provided for you? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't know if it's in the 25 policy. But in training, you're just told to EFTA00117972 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 215 1 conduct rounds and counts. But if -. 2 MR. : And document it at the 3 time it's been conducted. 4 MS. NOEL: And document it. 5 MR. : Right. So it's a 6 cultural - it's a culture of falsification of 7 records? 8 MS. NOEL: In MCC? Yes. Like the 9 lieutenant told me to sign I did SHU training 10 and I didn't. 11 MR. : Absolutely. There's a 12 lot of it yeah. 13 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 14 MR. : So my point being is it 15 sounds like this is a cultural problem. 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : But you have to - as a 18 person who received a college degree. A person 19 that went to you know standard - conducted 20 ethics training. You have to know that -. I 21 understand other people are doing it. And 22 you're saying I'm going to do what they're 23 doing. But you have to know - you have to 24 question like hey. I didn't conduct this 25 training. I didn't conduct those rounds. So EFTA00117973 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 216 1 you had to know that you shouldn't have done 2 it. 3 MS. NOEL: But -. 4 MR. : You're saying that you're 5 doing it because that's how other people are 6 doing it. But you're all doing it wrong. 7 Correct? 8 MS. NOEL: But But in a case like 9 this, who am I telling because like -. 10 MR. : I'm not asking you to 11 tell anybody. 12 MS. NOEL: No-no-no. When I say telling, 13 I'm like okay. If it's -. Okay. I understand 14 you're saying that I know that it's wrong. But 15 I'm saying like okay, like how the lieutenant. 16 Like when you said to me, does she know that I 17 didn't do the training? And I said yes she 18 knows that but she still told me to sign that. 19 MR. : Absolutely. 20 MS. NOEL: So again, I'm not going to 21 think. Like I said, I'm not thinking of this 22 as like I'm falsifying a document. It's just 23 the culture of MCC and I just followed. I'm 24 new. I don't know. I just lean on the senior 25 officer or the people that I'm working with for EFTA00117974 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 - to do what they do. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MS. NOEL: Or to guide me so to speak. 4 MR. : Let's ask it this way. 5 Did you know that you were supposed to conduct 6 rounds every 30 minutes? 7 MS. NOEL: Yes. 8 MR. : Yes. Did you know that 9 those rounds that are supposed to be conducted 10 every 30 minutes are supposed to be documented 11 on that sheet? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : And they're supposed to 14 be documented on the time that you conducted 15 those rounds? 16 MS. NOEL: No. Because nobody documents 17 it on the time. 18 MR. : I understand that that's 19 why you did it. But do you understand that in 20 training, every 30 minutes and they're supposed 21 to be not as it's corrected, they're not 22 supposed to be on the exact dot 30 minutes. 23 You're supposed to do it within like a 30- to 24 40-minute window. Correct? So that's not a 25 regular occurrence? EFTA00117975 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 218 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. Irregular rounds. 2 MR. : Irregular rounds. 3 Correct. So you know that you're supposed to 4 do them every 30 to 40 minutes. 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : Two rounds and hour. And 7 those rounds are supposed to be documented. 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : On that sheet. 10 MS. NOEL: On the sheet. 11 MR. : So obviously that leads 12 to the training of they're supposed to be 13 documented when you conduct the rounds. 14 Correct? 15 MS. NOEL: Okay. 16 MR. : So I'm - I do understand 17 that you're doing it because other people that 18 you just mentioned did it that way as well. 19 You have to know that you were supposed to do 20 it the way I just explained. Correct? 21 MS. NOEL: I know now. 22 MR. : Well you had to know then 23 too because it's like you're supposed to do a 24 30-minute round and you've got to document when 25 you did the 30-minute round. Correct? EFTA00117976 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 219 1 MS. NOEL: I never seen nobody do that 2 that I've worked with. 3 MR. : So you never saw 4 or do it that way? 5 MS. NOEL: See like when -. 6 MR. : And hey -. If 7 everybody's doing it wrong, obviously that's a 8 huge problem. 9 MS. NOEL: No, but what I'm saying is like 10 I'm not next to them. Like okay, let's say if 11 they're doing the sign-in sheet, I'm not - 12 that's why. Like how you're saying 13 like if is turning a sign-in sheet, I 14 don't necessarily have to be next to him. 15 could only tell you the people that I've seen. 16 Do I don't know like I can't speak for 17 everybody on this -. On there that I see. 18 MR. : Right. But what I'm 19 saying is you know that you need to conduct 30- 20 minute rounds. You know those rounds need to 21 be documented. You know those rounds need to 22 be documented on that sheet. 23 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Correct? 25 MS. NOEL: Correct. EFTA00117977 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 220 1 MR. : Therefore, you knew that 2 what you were doing was false. Correct? 3 MS. NOEL: As in putting the time and the 4 time that I conducted the round. And I didn't 5 do that at that time. See again 6 MR. : So you knew it 7 MS. NOEL: -- with the time. 8 MR. : -- that what you were 9 writing in there wasn't true and accurate as 10 you wrote it. Correct? 11 MS. NOEL: Correct. 12 MR. : And the reason you did it 13 was because the people that you observed in 14 there before did it that way. 15 MS. NOEL: Correct. 16 MR. : Is that correct? I think 17 that's how defies us. Any -?> So you knew it 18 was wrong, you knew what you were -- 19 MS. NOEL: But -. 20 MR. : -- writing was wrong, but 21 you did it because it's how they did it. 22 MS. NOEL: Right. But didn't -. I'm not 23 thinking it's wrong. Like specific to the 24 times because I've never seen it done every 30 25 minutes - every 30 minutes - every 30 minutes. EFTA00117978 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 221 1 MR. : Right. 2 MS. NOEL: I've never worked -. 3 MR. : So it's always been 4 falsified. Ever since you've been there, it's 5 always been falsified record is what you're 6 saying. 7 MS. NOEL: That - at the times that I've 8 worked and the people that I've worked with, 9 I've never seen it done every 30 minutes like 10 that. No. 11 MR. : Correct. 12 MS. NOEL: I've never seen it. 13 MR. : So you're trained on 14 conducting 30-minute rounds and documenting 15 when the 30-minutes -. Your experience has 16 taught you that that's not how they do it 17 there. They always falsify those records and 18 just put in whatever in order to satisfy the 19 30-minute requirement. 20 MS. NOEL: Correct. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MR. : Just one follow-up question. 23 MR. : Yep. 24 MR. : You mentioned that was the 25 first time. Those two days were the first time EFTA00117979 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 222 1 you filled out a round sheet in the SHU. Prior 2 to the SHU, before you got to the SHU, did you 3 fill out those round sheets? 4 MS. NOEL: Prior to working in the SHU? 5 MR. : in the SHU. Did you fill out 6 7 MS. NOEL: On other units, we don't have 8 um round sheets like this. 9 MR. : DO you have to conduct rounds 10 in the other units? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. But it's not documented 12 on a round sheet. 13 MR. : But this was the first time 14 you would have to? 15 MS. NOEL: In the SHU it's documented on 16 the sheet. 17 MR. : Alright. So is it the 18 first two times that you can recall 19 documenting? Are we going to find other round 20 sheets that you -? 21 MS. NOEL: The first two times that I can 22 recall -- 23 MR. : These were the first two 24 times these two times? 25 MS. NOEL: -- that I recall documenting. EFTA00117980 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 223 1 MR. : Alright. And did you -? 2 MR. FOY: You haven't gotten to this yet. 3 You know, I'm trying to lay back -- 4 MR. : Absolutely. 5 MR. FOY: and let you do your thing. 6 MR. : Absolutely. 7 MR. FOY: But at some point you'll learn, 8 she never worked midnight to 8:00 -- 9 MR. : Yep. 10 MR. FOY: a.m. before. Right? 11 MR. : And we never -. 12 MR. FOY: And there's a reason. 13 MR. : And we have that. Do you 14 want to give her a duty roster - her daily 15 assignment -- 16 MR. FOY: Right. 17 MR. : -- roster so that she can 18 see -- 19 MR. FOY: Right. 20 MR. where she -? 21 MR. FOY: So there were events in her 22 personal life. Because she used to do that I 23 come in early to avoid being mandated. 24 MR. : Sure. 25 MR. FOY: But she couldn't do it that day EFTA00117981 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 224 1 and got mandated. So now she's the officer in 2 charge for the first time at midnight with a 3 senior officer, even though he's really worked 4 there regularly. And he's not there for 5 guidance so to speak. 6 MR. : Sure. 7 MS. : And you know. 8 MR. : So this one -. This was 9 your daily assignments and I see where it says 10 you're relieved without pay for a great amount 11 of time up until -. It looks like 6/26/2019 12 you were assigned SHU number three. And then 13 through - what we're looking at is 8/10, SHU 14 number one. So if you want to reference this 15 on days that you worked or 16 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : -- assignments you were 18 on. 19 MR. FOY: Where? 20 MR. : That's that thing. So 21 understand what you're saying is that this is 22 your first time and she was the one in charge 23 and she wasn't having an officer in charge to 24 confer with I guess. 25 MR. FOY: Right. EFTA00117982 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 225 1 MR. : And that's why I'm 2 getting back to -- 3 MR. FOY: Right. 4 MR. : -- the fact that she 5 observed, you know, she knew that what she was 6 writing was false. But she did it because she 7 saw everybody else doing -- 8 MR. FOY: Right. 9 MR. : -- falsifying records. 10 MR. FOY: So part of it is, right, and 11 you're not wrong when you say, "Well that's 12 falsification of documents." And all that. 13 Right. And I can understand and can appreciate 14 how it looks that way. 15 MR. : Sure. 16 MR. FOY: Right. And I'm not - we're not 17 disputing that. Okay. But I think there's 18 also another way. It's like well it's 19 inaccurate. Right. 20 MR. : Mm-hmm. 21 MR. FOY: But that's not committing a 22 fraud to try to deceive the institution because 23 I just want to collect a paycheck and not do my 24 job. It's not for those reasons. It's just 25 because there's a BOP formal way and there's an EFTA00117983 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 226 1 MCC way of doing things that she's assimilating 2 to that's not the proper way. That what should 3 happen - a person needs to have the strength to 4 step up and say no and be the 5 MR. : Mm-hmm. 6 MR. FOY: -- whistleblower or whatever. 7 No. She didn't do that. Right? 8 MR. : And I can so appreciate 9 that. 10 MR. FOY: Right. 11 MR. : And that's why I say this 12 is a cultural, institution problem 13 MR. FOY: Right. 14 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. : And I agree with that. 16 MR. FOY: Right. 17 MR. : And I'm saying this was 18 wrong that she observed this. And those people 19 that were doing that were absolutely wrong. 20 MR. FOY: Right. 21 MR. : All I was trying to get 22 to is that we can all agree that that - you 23 know every 30 minutes is when the round is 24 supposed to be entered in there. 25 MR. FOY: So -. EFTA00117984 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 227 1 MR. : you know and she knew 2 that she was entering the wrong information 3 when she did it. 4 MR. FOY: We don't disagree. 5 MR. : Sure. 6 MR. FOY: She understood I didn't really 7 do a 6:03 round or whatever. Right? 8 MR. : Absolutely. 9 MR. FOY: But I don't know if she 10 experienced that as I'm falsifying records to 11 my job. 12 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. FOY: Right? 14 MR. : Right. 15 MR. FOY: Which she is in her mind doing 16 is well we're supposed to do rounds. But no 17 one ever really does them every 30 to 40 18 minutes. But you've got to fill out certain 19 paperwork that's required. So you fill out the 20 paperwork. Now I know from looking at the 21 discovery not every single officer did that. 22 Right? 23 MR. : Sure. 24 MR. FOY: I saw in the discovery that 25 there were people who - there would be blanks EFTA00117985 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 228 1 where the rounds should have been. So they 2 accurately reflected I suppose when they did. 3 But I think a lot more common is it's not that. 4 MR. : Absolutely. 5 MR. FOY: Right? So she followed the 6 strain. 7 MR. : Absolutely. 8 MR. FOY: She did not chart her own path 9 which is with - you know, why she's got to take 10 responsibility for that part. 11 MR. : And that's also why we 12 discuss this isn't all about you. It's about 13 the institution. 14 MR. FOY: Yeah. Understood. 15 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 16 MR. : And this seems like this 17 is an institution problem. And that's awful 18 that you're one year on and this is what you've 19 observed -- 20 MR. FOY: Right. 21 MR. : -- this entire time. 22 MR. FOY: And I only say that because I 23 feel like - in watching your interaction, 24 you're kind of talking past each other on your 25 focus on if it's the falsification knowing it's EFTA00117986 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 229 1 wrong. And she's like, well yeah, but I'm just 2 kind of doing. I'm not trying to commit a 3 crime. Like it wasn't like - and that's kind 4 of been my pitch the whole time. She wasn't 5 out to commit a crime. This isn't about hiding 6 my behavior because Jeff Epstein died. 7 MR. : Mm-hmm. 8 MR. FOY: Right? It's all there. Right? 9 Even the theory of the case is when asked what 10 happened. We messed up. Right? That's the 11 like they tell the truth. There's no deceit 12 deception 13 MR. : Mm-hmm. 14 MR. FOY: in frustrating the 15 investigation or the response. Now we're here, 16 we're trying to clear it up. We understand the 17 job that you have. You know address some of 18 the specifics here, but it's a much broader 19 vision. So we're trying to bring light to that 20 and she's doing the best she can to do it. I 21 think the issue is we're doing this almost two 22 years later. Right? 23 MR. : Sure. 24 MR. FOY: That's the problem. And -. 25 MR. : And the next day might be EFTA00117987 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 230 1 a little easier to address. 2 MR. FOY: Right. 3 MR. : So -. And we can jump 4 right into that. 5 MR. FOY: Okay. 6 MR. : So on August 10th, is 7 that also in front of you? I can't remember at 8 this point what I provided you. The round 9 sheet for August 10th. 10 MR. FOY: The round sheet. 11 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 12 MR. : Did you conduct any 13 rounds on August 10th that are 14 MS. NOEL: No I did not. 15 MR. : -- not -. And did you 16 also prepopulate that? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : Alright. So you knew 19 everything you wrote in there - again, I 20 understand that you said this is what you 21 observed. No one told you to do it this way 22 because you saw other people doing it this way. 23 But you knew that you didn't conduct any rounds 24 that you listed on that sheet. 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00117988 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 231 1 MR. : Correct. And what about 2 cell counts? And I'm only trying to move past 3 because we have a lot more to get through. 4 MR. FOY: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : But if there's something 6 else we want to address on there. 7 MR. FOY: Yeah. No. We're good. 8 MR. : So the cell counts. When 9 did you conduct cell counts - sorry, inmate 10 counts during your shift in the SHU on August 11 9, 2019? 12 MS. NOEL: Oh, that's 9th? 13 MR. : August 9th. So we're 14 talking now the 4:00 p.m. and a 10:00 p.m. 15 MS. NOEL: 10:00. 16 MR. : Did you conduct those 17 counts? 18 MS. NOEL: 10:00. 19 MR. : Just 10:00? Not he 4:00 20 p.m.? 21 MS. NOEL: Not at 4:00. 22 MR. : Now you do recall 23 actually conducting the 10:00 as you're 24 supposed to do it? 25 MS. NOEL: No because my partner was on a EFTA00117989 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 232 1 triple. 2 MR. : Okay. So he was doing a 3 triple shift? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. He worked three 5 consecutive shifts. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. NOEL: So I conducted the 10:00 by 8 myself. 9 MR. : And you actually went 10 around and counted every inmate? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : And we want to show the 13 count slips. 14 MR. : All of it? 15 MR. : We'll start I guess with 16 just the August 9th because we don't want to 17 give her too many stuff. Alright. So what I'm 18 going to show you here is this first page is 19 going to be like the institutional count. And 20 it's going to show you like ZA. Is ZA correct 21 for the SHU? Do you know that that is what ZA 22 stands for? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 24 MR. : Alright. So ZA is going 25 to be the number that's going to reflect for EFTA00117990 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 233 1 the SHU. And then I'll tell you what the total 2 number is in this count. On this page it'll 3 say 75. And it looks like this was beforehand. 4 And then at the end, you're going to see that 5 actual count slips and I'm going to ask you 6 you know who was on the count slip that you 7 filled out and who else was on there with you. 8 MS. NOEL: Okay. 9 MR. : In this instance I 10 believe it's on the second-to-last page. So 11 that you don't have to flip through all this. 12 But you can let me know if that's accurate. So 13 sorry. It looks like that one was the 4:00 14 p.m. and I believe this one is the 10:00 p.m. 15 MS. NOEL: So let me (Indiscernible 16 *02:47:46). 17 MS. : You went (Indiscernible 18 *02:47:49) sheet. 19 MR. : This the 10:00 p.m. 20 MS. : Right? 21 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 22 MS. : When you call into the 23 control, this is how they determine that your 24 count matches their learning base count. 25 Right? So ZA is 9 South, ZB is 10 South. EFTA00117991 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Okay. 2 MS. : They match. This is all of 3 our counts. Right. And then what they do is - 4 this is at the handwritten outcount from 5 employee. This is what they (Indiscernible 6 *02:48:16) entry. 7 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 8 MS. : This is what's keeping this 9 entry and it reflects on here. These are the 10 outcount areas an inmate could be. Right? So 11 5 South's count was 75. Their unit count is 12 78, three people were in food service. 13 MS. NOEL: Okay. 14 MS. : So when they actually counted 15 living, breathing bodies, they only had 75. 16 MS. NOEL: Right. 17 MS. : So now just apply that to SHU. 18 This is your SHU count. You had a one inmate 19 outcounted to attorney conference. 20 MS. NOEL: Okay. 21 MS. : Right? So you come down 22 here's one. So the actual count - the total 23 count that's supposed to be there is this 24 number. This is the inmate outcounted. And 25 this is what whoever counted called in. EFTA00117992 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 235 1 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 2 MS. : Or should have called in. 3 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 4 MS. : That number is supposed to 5 match ... these are all outcounts. That number 6 is supposed to correspond with these count 7 slips for your respective housing unit. 8 MS. NOEL: Okay. 9 MS. : Right? And then I guess she's 10 asking you to review your respective -. Tell 11 me if I'm wrong. 12 MR. : Yep. 13 MS. : Review your respective count 14 slip for your unit on your shift. And then I 15 guess you wanted to confirm signature on the -? 16 MR. : Sure. I just wanted to 17 see the second. So one page back, that second- 18 to-last page, can you just find if there's a 19 count slip that you created or you signed in 20 there? 21 MS. NOEL: I see here it says -. It has 22 my name on it. And it says 4:00 p.m. count. 23 don't recall at 4:00. 24 MR. : Does that look like your 25 signature or your handwriting? EFTA00117993 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 236 1 MS. NOEL: Where the Noel is - no. 2 MR. : How about your signature? 3 MS. NOEL: The signature looks like my 4 signature. But where the Noel is - no. But I 5 don't recall doing. I may have done the 4:00. 6 I don't recall. But I know I did 10:00. 7 MR. : Alright. So you don't 8 recall if you did the 4:00 p.m. or not? 9 MS. NOEL: I don't recall. 10 MR. : You can only recall doing 11 the 10:00. And is that because you said you 12 did it by yourself? 13 MS. NOEL: Self. Yes. 14 MR. : Do you believe you did 15 the 4:00 p.m.? 16 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 17 MR. : You don't recall. 18 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 19 MR. : Alright. What is the 20 number that's listed on there? On that count? 21 MS. NOEL: 75. 22 MR. : And that is your actual 23 signature? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Alright. And it says 75? EFTA00117994 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 237 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. What is there on 3 the first page. what does it say that the 4 number is? And that's the count for the SHU. 5 MS. NOEL: 75. 6 MR. : 75. Okay. So your 7 signature. You're claiming you can't recall 8 4:00 p.m. 9 MS. NOEL: I don't recall. 10 MR. : Alright. And I'm sure 11 that in preparation for this did you discuss at 12 all or review or kind of - you know at two 13 years now, did I do that 4:00 p.m. count or 14 not? No? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : Okay. Do you remember 17 who called in that number? 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : No. Alright. That's 20 fine. Now the 10:00 p.m. count is next to you. 21 MR. FOY: Right here. 22 MR. : Can you do the same 23 thing? Go to that last page. it could 24 potentially be on the last page or potentially 25 the second-to-last. You're going to look for EFTA00117995 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 238 1 anything you recall, you signed, or you 2 documented. 3 MR. FOY: Look at (Indiscernible 4 *02:51:16). 5 MS. NOEL: Here. 6 MR. : Okay. Is there somewhere 7 that you signed you signed on that? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. On the bottom. 9 MR. : And who was - and I do 10 apologize. Let me before I even go to that. 11 Who else was on the count slip with you on the 12 4:00 p.m.? 13 MS. NOEL: 14 MR. -: ? Alright. So he 15 signed that one? Or you? 16 MS. NOEL: According to the sheet. 17 MR. : Do you know if they were 18 prepopulated? The 4:00 p.m. is that also how 19 you did the rounds? Did you also prepopulate 20 the count slips? 21 MS. NOEL: On the midnight to 8:00. But 22 not on -. 23 MR. : Not that one? 24 MS. NOEL: No, not on this one. 25 MR. : Do you know who filled it EFTA00117996 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 239 1 out? I know it's your signature. But you said 2 it didn't look like your handwriting. But for 3 the 4:00 p.m. now we're talking about. I'm 4 just reverting back. Do you know who actually 5 completed that count slip? 6 MS. NOEL: The count slip? Who filled it 7 out? I don't recall. 8 MR. : No? But it was you and 9 that were on it? 10 MS. NOEL: Just me and that's on 11 there. 12 MR. : And this didn't look like 13 your handwriting? 14 MS. NOEL: For the Noel - no. For the 15 signature. 16 MR. : Right. For the - and I 17 think you're looking at the 10:00 right now. 18 I'm just reverting back to the 4:00. That 19 doesn't look like your handwriting as far as 20 counting out? It just looks like your 21 signature on it? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : And you simply just don't 24 recall if you did or did not do that count? 25 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. EFTA00117997 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 240 1 MR. : Alright. The 10:00 p.m. 2 now we're looking at. Who was on that with 3 you? 4 MS. NOEL: Me and 5 MR. : And who - can you tell by 6 looking at the handwriting who filled that out? 7 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. But I 8 signed. And I know -. 9 MR. : Does that look like your 10 handwriting that filled it out? Can you tell? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : You're not able to 13 identify your handwriting? 14 MS. NOEL: No. I'm saying this doesn't 15 look like my handwriting. But that's my 16 signature. 17 MR. : Oh that's your signature. 18 But it doesn't look like you actually completed 19 the slip. I'm asking did you complete that 20 slip? 21 MS. NOEL: Yeah. I don't -. And this is 22 right here. The 783, I wrote that. But 10:00, 23 I don't write my numbers like this. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MS. NOEL: So. Yeah. I don't put the EFTA00117998 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 241 1 zero-zero in a cross. So I don't. 2 MR. : Is that the (Indiscernible 3 *02:53:11)? 4 MR. : Is there anything next to 5 73 on that? 6 MS. NOEL: I put plus one. 7 MR. : What is that for? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 9 MR. : You don't know why you 10 put 73 plus one? 11 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 12 MR. : Is that abnormal to write 13 73 plus one? 14 MS. NOEL: I don't even know they there's 15 a plus one on there. 16 MR. : But you wrote 73 and 17 somebody else may have put the plus one? 18 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. But the 73 19 is mine. 20 MR. : Okay. And you don't know 21 what plus one would mean? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : Alright. And then what 24 is the first page say - that the institution 25 counts were then for ZA? EFTA00117999 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 242 1 MS. NOEL: 73. 2 MR. : 73? Alright. So again, 3 that plus one you're not sure. 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : And now can you just 6 explain to me You said you do specifically 7 recall conducting that count? 8 MS. NOEL: 10:00 yes. 9 MR. : And you actually went 10 through and counted all of the inmates? 11 MS. NOEL: Every inmate. 12 MR. : On ever tier? 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : But it was a prepopulated 15 count slip? 16 MS. NOEL: No. That was for the midnight 17 to 8:00 in the morning. 18 MR. : Alright. 19 MS. NOEL: We filled it out before. 20 MR. : So 10:00 p.m. wasn't 21 prepopulated? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : You did that after you 24 conducted the count? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00118000 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 243 1 2 3 4 5 MR. : Alright. But not with another CO. MS. NOEL: No. MR. : And who was the CO that was supposed to have done it with you? 6 MS. NOEL: 7 MR. : And did sign it 8 even though he didn't? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : And did you have any 11 discussions with him at that time? 12 MS. NOEL: He was tired. He was on a 13 triple. 14 MR. : Okay. And what did he 15 say to you? 16 MS. NOEL: He was tired. 17 MR. : Did he leave then? 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : Or did he just stand 20 there and watch you do it? 21 MS. NOEL: No. He was asleep. 22 MR. : He slept? Alright. Sc 23 he was sleeping when that was conducted? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Okay. Do you know how EFTA00118001 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 244 1 long he slept for? 2 MS. NOEL: Until it was time for him to go 3 home. 4 MR. : So like 10:00 to 12:00? 5 MS. NOEL: Approximately. 6 MR. : Okay. But you're certain 7 you conducted that count? 8 MS. NOEL: Absolutely. 9 MR. : Okay. And are you 10 confident that that number is correct? 11 MS. NOEL: What the 73? 12 MR. : Yep. 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : Alright. Now let's show 15 the 12:00 a.m. Does this go there? 16 MR. : It's (Indiscernible 17 *02:55:07) 18 MR. : Alright. So before we -. 19 I guess first, can you go to the back of the 20 thing and see the counts? Find the count slip? 21 Can you find if -. Are you on there? 22 MR. : Check the last page. 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : And is this the one you 25 said you prepopulated? EFTA00118002 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 245 1 MS. NOEL: We -. Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. And did you fill 3 that count slip out? 4 MS. NOEL: Thomas. 5 MR. : Thomas did? 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : And you signed it? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : So Thomas is the one that 10 prepopulated it? 11 MS. NOEL: Yeah. We filled all of them 12 out. 13 MR. : Oh you filled out all but 14 three? 15 MS. NOEL: Yeah. He wrote and I signed. 16 All. 17 MR. : Alright. So the 12 and 18 the 3 and the 5, you did it all at once? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : Alright. And then what 21 number is written on there? 22 MS. NOEL: 73. 23 MR. : Now look at that first 24 page. What number is written on there? 25 MS. NOEL: 72. EFTA00118003 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 246 1 MR. : Alright. So what 2 happened with that? 3 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 4 MR. : At what point did an 5 inmate disappear? 6 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. I called in 7 73. 8 MR. : If you called in 73, did 9 you actually count 73 people? 10 MS. NOEL: Well we didn't count at 12:00. 11 MR. : I know but at 10:00 you 12 did you said. 13 MS. NOEL: Did. Yes. 14 MR. : So at 10:00 you did. But 15 there's only 72 people there at 10:00. So did 16 you actually do the count at 10:00? Did you 17 call - did you actually count the inmates? 18 MS. NOEL: I actually counted all the 19 inmates at 10:00. Absolutely counted all. 20 MR. : And you counted at 73 of 21 them. 22 MS. NOEL: I actually counted all the 23 inmates at 10:00. 24 MR. : So where did the one 25 inmate go? EFTA00118004 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 247 1 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 2 MR. : Do you remember any 3 inmate being removed from the SHU after 10:00 4 p.m.? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : Alright. Can you show 7 her this count? Here's the 3:00 a.m. count. 8 Can you see that top sheet right there? Can 9 you find ZA? How many - what number is it on 10 that? 11 MS. NOEL: 72. 12 MR. : Alright. So 72 again on 13 that. That's the institution count. That's 14 how many people are actually in the SHU. What 15 does it say on the count slip? 16 MS. NOEL: 72. 17 MR. : 72. So what happened 18 between 10:00 and 3:00? 19 MS. NOEL: Why the numbers are -? I don't 20 know. 21 MR. : Why are the number 22 different? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 24 MS. : Let me see this again? 25 MS. NOEL: Yeah. EFTA00118005 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 248 1 MS. : It's in the (Indiscernible 2 *02:57:40). 3 MR. : And I don't dispute that 4 maybe you did a round at 10:00. Are you sure 5 you did a count at -? 6 MS. NOEL: No. I did a count at 10:00. 7 MR. : You counted all the 8 inmates and it added up to 73. 9 MS. NOEL: Because that's what on the -. 10 I wrote 73. 11 MR. : Right. And then if you 12 notice you wrote 73 again at 12:00. 13 MS. NOEL: That Thomas wrote it at -- 14 MR. : But there's actually 72. 15 MS. NOEL: -- 12:00 and then on the front 16 it says 72. But then the count -. But then if 17 the numbers didn't match, the count wouldn't 18 have cleared. 19 MR. : And that's what I'm going 20 to ask you. Did you have any conversations? 21 MS. NOEL: I -. 22 MR. : So here's the 5:00 a.m. 23 and this one also says 72 for the official 24 count. And I believe you guys wrote 72. So 25 did you discuss this with anybody that the EFTA00118006 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 249 1 counts were off? 2 MS. NOEL: Uh, no. I think Thomas 3 discussed. Thomas was on the phone with 4 Because the count wouldn't have cleared if it 5 said 72 and 73. So I think Thomas had a 6 conversation. But I didn't have a conversation 7 with anybody. 8 MR. : Did you have a 9 conversation with Thomas with regard to the 10 count being off? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : So if you did all the 13 prepopulating at 12:00, why does the 12:00 say 14 73 and the other two say 72 and 72? 15 MS. NOEL: Because on the -. I remember 16 at the other one, Thomas had the count slips 17 all and I couldn't find - I couldn't find the 18 count slip. And I remember I rewrote it. But 19 as far as why the count changed to 72, I don't 20 remember why. 21 MR. : Well I can tell you why. 22 Because the count was off. 23 MS. NOEL: Mm. 24 MR. : So that's what I'm 25 asking. If you actually did that 10:00 p.m. EFTA00118007 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 count, how did you get 73? 2 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 3 MR. : But you're sure you 4 counted 73? 5 MS. NOEL: I absolutely counted at 10:00. 6 MR. : But no inmates left after 7 10:00. 8 MS. NOEL: No. I mean, I remember I 9 counted by myself. And I (Indiscernible 10 *02:59:23) counted with somebody and we 11 compared the numbers. But I counted at 10:00. 12 MR. : Could have you been 13 mistaken during your count? 14 MS. NOEL: Probably. 15 MR. : Do you believe that you 16 were probably mistaken? 17 MS. NOEL: Probably. 18 MR. : Okay. So you're certain 19 you conducted the count. 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : But you think you 22 probably just counted wrong? 23 MS. NOEL: Wrong. Maybe. Because it's 72 24 after. 25 MR. : Okay. And you went EFTA00118008 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 251 1 through and you -. Tell me how a count works. 2 Do you add them up? 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. Like I write it. Like K 4 Tier. And then I write it. L Tier and then I 5 write it. And then we add it up. 6 MR. : Alright. Do you want to 7 follow-up with that at all? 8 MR. : Do you recall that night that 9 during your evening shift? 10 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 11 MR. : So let's say from when you 12 came on from 4:00 p.m. Or did you come on at 13 2:00 p.m.? What you said. 14 MS. NOEL: 4:00. 15 MR. : 4:00 to midnight. Were there 16 any inmates removed from the SHU? 17 MS. NOEL: When I came on? 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MS. NOEL: Not that I know of. 20 MR. : If there were inmates removed 21 from the SHU, would you have been aware of it? 22 MS. NOEL: I mean if I was there. Yes. 23 MR. : Do you recall -? And so you 24 don't -. Do you recall two inmates -? 25 MS. NOEL: Going to suicide watch. Yes. EFTA00118009 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 252 1 MR. : Do you recall about that? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : What happened with that? 4 MS. NOEL: Um.... I'm not really sure 5 because I remember told me. But 6 remember the two inmates didn't go to suicide 7 watch but I don't recall as far as 8 (Indiscernible *03:00:58). 9 MR. : Did that happen during your 10 shift? Or did it happen before your shift? 11 MS. NOEL: During. 12 MR. : During your shift. Was that 13 after the 4:00 p.m. count? 14 MS. NOEL: I don't -. I think if I would 15 have been after 4:00 p.m. because I came in at 16 4:00. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : If you look at the numbers 19 on the 4:00 p.m. count, does it - is it 20 correct? 21 MS. NOEL: (Indiscernible *03:01:12) 22 MR. : It says 75. 23 MR. FOY: I don't think that's 4:00 p.m. 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : It's at the bottom of page EFTA00118010 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 five. 2 MR. : It's just -. 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : Look at the time on the 5 bottom. 6 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 7 MR. be able to figure 8 it out. 9 MS. NOEL: It says 75. 10 MR. : And then two people went 11 to suicide watch. Correct? 12 MS. NOEL: Correct. 13 MR. : Alright. But no one else 14 left the SHU. Correct? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : So that's what we're 17 saying. Somewhere between 4:00 p.m. and 3:00 18 a.m., either an inmate went missing or the 19 counts weren't conducted or they were off. 20 MS. NOEL: The counts was off. 21 MR. : They were off. But if 22 your job was actually to count the inmates, how 23 were they off? Usually what you're saying is 24 you're just taking the number. You're 25 prepopulating this a lot of times saying what EFTA00118011 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 number you believe it's supposed to be in 2 there. But if you actually conducted the 3 counts, you would actually know that there was 4 only 72. Correct? 5 MS. NOEL: I counted. 6 MR. : But you couldn't have 7 counted 73 because - 8 MS. NOEL: Well I maybe That's what 9 I'm saying. Maybe there's where the error is. 10 But I counted. 11 MS. : No. See at 4:00 count. 12 MR. : You counted but you 13 counted wrong. Is -. 14 MS. NOEL: Yes, that's what I'm saying. 15 Because I absolutely counted. Because I 16 remember was tired. He was on a 17 triple and he was falling asleep. 18 MR. : Again, and I'm not saying 19 you didn't conduct a round -- 20 MS. NOEL: And then I went. 21 MR. : I'm asking if you 22 conducted a count. 23 MS. NOEL: And I went and I counted. 24 MR. : Okay. And you're 25 positive of that? EFTA00118012 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 255 1 MS. NOEL: That I counted? 2 MR. : Yep. 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MS. NOEL: But the number could have been 6 off. But I counted. 7 MR. : Okay. And that's why -. 8 MS. NOEL: Because if I was counting with 9 somebody. If I would have said 73, he would 10 have counted and he would have got 72. That's 11 why you've got to count with two people. 12 MR. : Sure. And at the 12:00 13 a.m. you said you remember Thomas speaking to 14 someone -- 15 MS. NOEL: On the phone. 16 MR. : -- but you don't know 17 who? 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : And did you have any 20 conversations with Thomas at that time? 21 MS. NOEL: No. Except for he changed the 22 count slip and I signed. 23 MR. : He changed which count 24 slip? 25 MS. NOEL: The one that has 72 on there. EFTA00118013 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 256 1 MR. : So he changed the 3:00 2 a.m. and the 5:00 a.m. at that time? 3 MS. NOEL: He changed one of the count 4 slips and then I was looking of for the other 5 one and I couldn't find it. And then I did -. 6 I remember. I filled out one. 7 MR. : But if you -. So you're 8 saying -. I thought you said at 12:00 a.m. you 9 prepopulated all the count slips. 10 MS. NOEL: We did. 11 MR. : So - but the 12:00 a.m. 12 says 73. 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : And the 3:00 and the 5:00 15 say 72. 16 MS. NOEL: Right. 17 MR. : So is the 72 that was 18 submitted and then he talked to you and then -? 19 MS. NOEL: Well I believe that because 20 then it would have been - when it got submitted 21 it would have been that the count wouldn't have 22 cleared. It would have been off. So then it 23 would have been (Indiscernible *03:03:45). It 24 would have been had to have been changed. 25 MR. : Okay. The count slip EFTA00118014 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 257 1 would have had to have changed is what you're 2 saying. 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : Is that the time -? 5 MS. NOEL: If the count doesn't match 6 what's on here, then it would have had to have 7 been changed. 8 MR. : If a count is off, like 9 it was -. 10 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 11 MR. : What happens? 12 MS. NOEL: You redo the count slip. And 13 redo the count. 14 MR. : In this case do you 15 recall them telling you to redo the count? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : No. And did Thomas say 18 that hey I just spoke to the lieutenant and 19 they said to redo the count? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : No? 22 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 23 MR. : Do you remember redoing 24 that slip that says 73 whereas the institution 25 count says 72? EFTA00118015 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 258 1 MS. NOEL: Let me see. 2 MR. : Because I just want to 3 make sure because the video shows that no 4 counts were done at 10:00. I mean unless 5 you're just -. 6 MS. NOEL: I saw that also in the 7 indictment. But I did count at 10:00. 8 MR. : And this is again part of 9 that whole under oath thing because there was 10 only 72 people on there. So if you're saying 11 you did the count, I just want to reconcile 12 that now before we have a potential problem in 13 the future. 14 MR. : So never assisted 15 you with the 10:00 p.m. count right? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : So you wrote 73 plus one. 18 MS. NOEL: I wrote 73. 19 MR. : So you don't recall the plus 20 one? 21 MS. NOEL: The plus one, no I don't recall 22 that. 23 MR. : Does that look like your 24 handwriting? The plus one? 25 MR. : I don't know. EFTA00118016 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 259 1 MR. : You don't know. And when 2 did sign that? Would it have been 3 before he went to sleep? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Would it have been much 6 before 10:00? 7 MS. NOEL: I don't remember the exact 8 timeframe. 9 MR. : When you wrote that count 10 slip, was the time accurate to when you 11 conducted the count? 12 MS. NOEL: Yeah because you count at 13 10:00. 14 MR. : Okay. So the time that - 15 is there a time reflected on -- 16 MS. NOEL: But -. 17 MR. : -- the actual count slip? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. It says 10:00. 19 MR. : Alright. So if around 20 that time, he would have just signed it and you 21 went up. 22 MS. NOEL: And I went up. 23 MR. : And you actually did the 24 count. Not a round. But you did a count. 25 MS. NOEL: I counted. EFTA00118017 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 260 1 MR. : Okay. And you just have 2 no explanation for why the count is off? 3 MS. NOEL: You can miscount. So I'm not 4 saying that the number couldn't have been off. 5 But as far as the count, like I counted. It 6 could have been a miscount but I counted. 7 MR. : Alright. I've got a follow- 8 up. Do you recall an inmate being moved to dry 9 cell that night? 10 MS. NOEL: Dry cell. No. 11 MR. FOY: Do you know what that is? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. FOY: Okay. 14 MR. : Do you remember an inmate 15 named Fernandez? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : You don't recall. During 18 your shift. The inmate wasn't moved? 19 MS. NOEL: No. I don't -. 20 MR. : If an inmate was moved to 21 another cell. Let's just say dry cell. Where 22 is dry cell located? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 24 MR. : Is it in - you know where R&D 25 is ? EFTA00118018 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 261 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Is it in R&D? 3 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 4 MR. : Have you -? Okay. If an 5 inmate was moved to R&D, would you still 6 include the inmate as part of your count? 7 MS. NOEL: If the inmate was moved, I 8 would think they'd be on the outcount. I'm not 9 sure. 10 MR. : But you wouldn't include 11 because you can't see the inmate. 12 MS. NOEL: Right. They'd be on the 13 outcount. 14 MR. : Yeah. You only count the 15 people that are physically present. 16 MR. : Present. 17 MR. : Right. And that's what 18 number goes on that count slip. 19 MS. NOEL: Count slip. 20 MR. : Right. 21 MR. : Do you recall any instances 22 of why anyone would write plus one? What was 23 that plus one? We've been trying to figure out 24 what the plus one is. 25 MS. NOEL: Plus one. I don't know. EFTA00118019 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 262 1 MR. : Yeah. I'm more concerned 2 with the 73 when there was only 72 people. Now 3 I'm not going to doubt that you counted at 4 least one tier. You counted all six tiers? 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : And you added those up 7 and it equaled 73? 8 MS. NOEL: That's what I have on here. 9 MR. : Do you remember? I mean 10 I know you have that on there. But that's what 11 I'm saying. That's inaccurate. So I'm trying 12 to - 13 MS. NOEL: But I don't -. 14 MR. : I'm trying to reconcile 15 that. 16 MS. NOEL: But see I don't remember that 17 at this point. Like I mean I wrote 73. 1 18 counted. I remember Thomas having a 19 conversation. the number was switched to 72 20 but I don't remember like physically like 21 adding it up like I don't remember that. And 22 again, maybe I miscounted because I counted by 23 myself. This was before. But at 12:00 -. 24 MR. : And being that 25 signed before you did the count, do you think EFTA00118020 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 263 1 you prepopulated that? And then counted? 2 MS. NOEL: I could have been. I don't 3 remember. 4 MR. : So you may have written 5 the slip first and then counted? 6 MS. NOEL: I don't remember at this point. 7 MR. : Okay. But at the 12:00 8 a.m. count when you guys were told this count 9 is off, you didn't then go as you should have 10 recount. 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : And you do understand 13 that if a count's off you're supposed to do a 14 recount? Correct? 15 MS. NOEL: Recount. 16 MR. : Alright. So the 12:00 17 a.m. there's not dispute. The 12:00 a.m., the 18 3:00 a.m., and the 5:00 a.m. you guys didn't do 19 it. 20 MS. NOEL: Correct. 21 MR. : And you both signed those 22 slips knowing that the counts weren't done. 23 10:00 you're claiming that you did. You don't 24 know when you filled out the slip and you don't 25 know why it's inaccurate. EFTA00118021 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 264 1 MS. NOEL: Right. 2 MR. : And the 4:00 p.m. you're 3 just saying you don't remember. 4 MS. NOEL: The 4:00 yes. 5 MS. : Can I see the 10:00? 6 MR. : So you don't remember if 7 it was conducted or if it wasn't conducted. 8 MS. NOEL: Well the 4:00 would have been 9 conducted because we feed at that time. 10 MR. : Well that's not a count 11 though. Again, I'm talking -. I don't want to 12 say - 13 MS. NOEL: Like a -. 14 MR. : I want to make sure that 15 we're - 16 MR. : Right but I don't 17 remember physically at 4:00 counting. I don't 18 remember. 19 MR. : Okay. So you don't 20 recall counting. You know that you did people 21 at 4:00. 22 MS. NOEL: Right. 23 MR. : So that would be what you 24 call a round. 25 MS. NOEL: Right EFTA00118022 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 265 1 MR. : What you classify your 2 understanding of a round. But the count. 3 MS. NOEL: Right. I don't recall. 4 MR. : You don't recall 5 conducting the 4:00 p.m.? 6 MS. NOEL: No. I counted 7 MR. : Do you believe that you 8 did conduct a count at 4:00 p.m.? 9 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 10 MR. : So you just can't recall. 11 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. NOEL: I counted at 3:00 and 5:00 14 upstairs. 15 MS. : That's incorrect at 10:00. 16 MR. : In 10 South? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : Alright. 19 MS. : Right? So this -. 20 MR. : So you - is it safe to 21 say that you did the feed, which you classified 22 as a round but you didn't count at 4:00 p.m.? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 24 MR. : You don't know. Okay. 25 We're going to just move on. EFTA00118023 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 266 1 MR. FOY: Let me do this real quick. 2 just want to try to clarify this. Let me 3 because this is something we haven't discussed 4 in advance. 5 MR. : Of course. 6 MR. FOY: Because I didn't know there was 7 an off on the number. 8 MS. NOEL: I didn't even remember that. 9 MR. FOY: Alright. So we can take this 10 out with us and speak on it real quick? 11 MR. : Ah... 12 MR. FOY: Or you want to keep it in here? 13 MR. : How about we leave and 14 let you discuss it in here? 15 MR. FOY: Okay. That's fine. 16 MR. : Does that work? 17 MR. FOY: Yeah. That's fine. 18 MR. : Just because I don't 19 really want to have documents removed. 20 MR. FOY: Yeah-yeah, okay. 21 MR. : Alright. So it's 1: - 22 p.m. This is Senior Special Agent 23 and I am pausing the recording. 24 [Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off 25 the record and went back on the record.] The EFTA00118024 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 267 1 recorder is back on. It is currently 1:46 p.m. 2 This is Senior Special Agent 3 I'm just reminding you Ms. Noel you are under 4 oath and this is a voluntary interview. Thank 5 you again for your cooperation. So when we 6 took a break, is there anything that you wanted 7 to add from the last thing we were talking 8 about? The difference between the 4:00, the 9 10:00, and the 12:00, and the different 10 numbers. 11 MS. NOEL: On the plus one. I don't know 12 where the plus one came from. I absolutely 13 counted at 10:00. I don't know why is there a 14 plus one. And then when the number changed, 15 like there's something that's sometimes it's 16 called like a ghost count. I don't know. 17 don't remember if that's what happened. So 18 whereas, control will call you and say, put it 19 as a ghost count. So the inmate is not 20 physically there but they know there the inmate 21 is. Because they didn't redo the count sheet. 22 So that's the only thing I can think of - the 23 ghost count. 24 MR. : I could think it may be a 25 ghost count for the plus one. But if you're EFTA00118025 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 268 1 writing the numbers and it's supposed to be -. 2 I mean when you're 3 MS. NOEL: No. I'm talking about for the 4 73 and then how it changed to 72. As far as 5 the plus one, I don't know about the plus one. 6 I'm talking about the 73. 7 MR. : But when you do a count, 8 that you list on it, isn't it the physical 9 inmates that are there? 10 MS. NOEL: Yes. 11 MR. : You can't ever say that 12 you can't list somebody that is not there on 13 that count. Correct? 14 MS. NOEL: Correct. 15 MR. : Right. So you see? 16 MS. NOEL: No but what I'm saying. Okay. 17 Like I'm like I said, I really don't remember, 18 but let's say if I counted 72. And they said 19 ghost count John. And I put 73. As far as the 20 plus one, I don't know. And I put 73 because 21 they know where the inmate is. And then after 22 for the next count they fixed the roster. 23 Because that's why it's called a ghost count 24 because they didn't move to where the person is 25 supposed to be. And then they fix it on the EFTA00118026 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 269 1 next one. That could have been how the count 2 went down in 72. But as far as the plus one, 3 don't know where the plus one went. 4 MR. : Alright. So who was in 5 the SHU at 10:00 p.m. when you conduct this 6 count? 7 MS. NOEL: Me and 8 MR. : Just the two of you? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : He's sleeping. 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : What conversations did 13 you have with anybody about that count? 14 MS. NOEL: That's what I'm saying. I 15 don't recall. That's the only thing that could 16 have happened. But I don't recall. 17 MR. : But if they told you to 18 do that at 10:00 p.m. as you just noticed, at 19 12:00 a.m., the count - that's when they catch 20 that the counts are wrong. 21 MS. NOEL: Right. 22 MR. : So if I told you that -. 23 MS. NOEL: Well not at that time at the 12 24 time. I'm saying like when it changed from - 25 I'm not looking at the time but when it changed EFTA00118027 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 270 1 from the 72 to the 72 at that time. 2 MR. : Right. So no inmate was 3 removed from the SHU after 10:00 p.m.? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : There's only 72 inmates 6 in the SHU at 10:00 p.m. 7 MS. NOEL: I don't - as far as the numbers 8 go, I don't remember accurately the numbers, 9 but no inmate moved. 10 MR. : Right. 11 MS. NOEL: There was no movement. 12 MR. : And that's just where 13 we're just trying to get to this. If you're 14 swearing up and down, you know under oath, I 15 conducted this count. 16 MS. NOEL: I did. 17 MR. : But there's only 72 18 people there. At 12:00 a.m., that's when the 19 lieutenant catches. Hey guys, there's only 72 20 people in there. You've got to redo this count 21 and give me a new count slip. When did - when 22 did this happen? 23 MR. FOY: Let me just say something on 24 here it says that at 10:00. I'm looking at the 25 10:00 that it was 73 on the outside. EFTA00118028 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Correct. 2 MR. FOY: Right, so the control and her 3 slip matches. 4 MR. : Right. So she calls in 5 the number -- 6 MR. FOY: Right. 7 MR. : -- and right. So she's 8 calling in because somewhere before 10:00 p.m., 9 an inmate wasn't removed from the list. 10 MR. FOY: Right. 11 MR. : Although they were not 12 present in the SHU. So if they're doing a 13 count -- 14 MR. FOY: Mm-hmm. 15 MR. : -- that's where it's 16 supposed to say that's the actual number that's 17 in here. 18 MR. FOY: Right. 19 MR. : And at that point, 20 control would say we have 73. Where is the 21 problem here? But she called in 73 -. 22 MR. FOY: Right. 23 MR. : Or yeah instead of the 24 72. 25 MR. FOY: Right. EFTA00118029 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 272 1 MR. : So you're right. The 2 master list is off but so is the count slip. 3 The count slip is provided first. 4 MS. : But they're not off, right? 5 Technically, at 10:00, the master list is that 6 front page. 7 MR. : The master list is wrong. 8 MS. : It said 73. 9 MR. : Correct. 10 MS. : So there may be something you 11 know that we don't. 12 MR. : Oh we've already talked 13 to hundreds of people about this. 14 MS. : I'm sure. 15 MR. : So that's where - I mean 16 not hundreds - by you know what I mean. 17 MS. : A few people. 18 MR. : A lot of people. So this 19 is where we're just asking the only person that 20 was there that was actually. You know the 21 other guy was sleeping. There's only one 22 person physically present in there. 23 MS. : Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : And that was you Ms. 25 Noel. EFTA00118030 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : So that's why we're 3 asking you. Everyone else clear as day says 4 well it just shows - it's just proof that the 5 count wasn't conducted. That's what everybody 6 else says all the way up to the highest of 7 levels. So that's why if you're saying that 8 the count was conducted, you're just saying -- 9 MS. NOEL: I did do the count. 10 MR. : -- you just counted 11 wrong. 12 MS. NOEL: I did do the count. 13 MS. : So I get -. And I'm asking 14 this because I think if we're confused, Ms. 15 Noel is - might be confused. Correct me if I'm 16 wrong. 17 MS. NOEL: Right. Like because I didn't 18 even -. 19 MS. : If she - if the employee - 20 let's use a simple number for the sake of it. 21 Right. I'm an employee. I count 4 living 22 breathing bodies on Unit A. 23 MR. : Mm-hmm. 24 MS. : And then I call you who is 25 located eight floors downstairs and I say EFTA00118031 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 274 1 have four bodies on Unit A and you say to me, 2 Ms. , that's a good count. Right? 3 MR. : Mm-hmm. 4 MS. : That's what these documents 5 imply took place. Because the front page is 6 prepared by a completely different person in a 7 completely different area. 8 MR. : Exactly. So what these 9 documents actually imply is that the 10 institution count showed that there were 73 11 people in there. 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. : There were only 72 people 14 in there. So what they imply is that the count 15 wasn't conducted. Because there were only 72 16 people in there and it was just based on the 17 number that should have been based upon the 18 system. The system showed there were 73, so 19 they wrote 73 on the slip. That's what the 20 documentation implies. 21 MS. : I get that (Indiscernible 22 *03:16:28) wrong. 23 MR. : However, there were only 24 72 people in there. 25 MS. : Now I understand what you're EFTA00118032 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 275 1 saying. 2 MR. : So that's why I'm asking. 3 It's hard for me to get past this question if 4 you're saying yes I counted 73 -- 5 MS. NOEL: I did. 6 MR. : -- bodies when there were 7 only 72 bodies in there. 8 MS. NOEL: No. I absolutely counted. As 9 far as the number, like I said, in remembering 10 how much bodies I counted, but I counted. 11 MR. : So you counted, you just 12 didn't -. 13 MS. NOEL: The count may have been off. 14 MR. : You didn't maybe have the 15 numbers up? 16 MS. NOEL: Right or it was 17 MR. : And that's why I wanted 18 to make sure the difference between a round and 19 a count. 20 MS. NOEL: No. I counted. 21 MR. : You counted but -? 22 MS. NOEL: And the reason why that always 23 stood out to me because I remember he was on a 24 triple and he said he was tired. And I 25 counted. EFTA00118033 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 276 1 MR. : So just give me a little 2 more information on what you're just saying. 3 You know you counted but what? 4 MS. NOEL: No. I'm saying I know I 5 absolutely counted. And that always stood out 6 to me because I remember he was on a triple and 7 he was tired. 8 MR. : Sure. 9 MS. NOEL: And I counted by myself which 10 I'm not supposed to. So I remember that. But 11 as far as the numbers go, I don't remember this 12 because I didn't even remember something about 13 a plus one until I seen the count slip. Like I 14 don't recall nothing about a plus one. 15 MR. : Right. 16 MS. NOEL: So as far as the numbers, I'm 17 not sure. But as far as counting, I absolutely 18 counted. 19 MR. : Are you sure you counted 20 73? 21 MS. NOEL: That's what I'm saying. As far 22 as the numbers go, I don't remember. But I 23 counted. 24 MR. : Let's see. You counted 25 what? So I mean what did you do with the EFTA00118034 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2-- 1 numbers that you counted? 2 MS. NOEL: What I'm saying is, the count 3 could have been off. But I'm just letting you 4 know that I actually did count. As far as the 5 actual number, that's where the discrepancy -- 6 MR. : So -- 7 MS. NOEL: comes in. 8 MR. : So did you count and then 9 look at the - what the system showed was in 10 there. And you just decided -- 11 MS. NOEL: I didn't -. 12 MR. : -- to put what the system 13 showed? 14 MS. NOEL: Because I don't know how to 15 look for that. 16 MR. : You don't even know how 17 to find -? 18 MS. NOEL: Look for the count in the 19 system. No. 20 MR. : So where would you -? If 21 you're prepopulating things, where do you get 22 the numbers from in order to -? 23 MS. NOEL: When you come in, the person 24 that you're relieving will be like I got 72 or 25 I got 75. EFTA00118035 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 278 1 MR. : So someone who you 2 relieved would have told you that there were 3 73? 4 MS. NOEL: Correct. 5 MR. : Alright. And do you know 6 who would have told you that there were 73? 7 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 8 MR. : Would it have been 9 before he fell asleep? 10 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 11 MR. : Alright. So again, just 12 help me try to understand if there's only 72 13 people in there, how you wrote 73 if you 14 counted? 15 MS. NOEL: Again, that's what I'm saying. 16 I could have miscounted. I don't remember what 17 happened. As far as the actual number of the 18 count. I can only just tell you that I 19 counted. As far as the numbers go, I don't 20 remember. 21 MR. : Right. So you counted 22 each tier. 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : And then you added each 25 of those counts up? EFTA00118036 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 279 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. I counted each tier. I 2 don't know if I added them up. But usually 3 when I'm counting, that's what I do. I write 4 it down, K Tier with the number, L Tier I put 5 the number, and I add them up. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. NOEL: But if I miscounted, remember I 8 counted by myself. So if I miscounted, I would 9 have called control and I would have said 73. 10 They would have been like no, your count is 11 wrong. 12 MR. : Well that's the -. 13 MR. : But on -. 14 MR. : It's weird that your 15 miscount just happened to show what the system 16 said that was what the system thought was in 17 there. 18 MR. : But at -. 19 MR. : That's where I'm having 20 difficulty because it's like the system says 21 73. So if you miscounted 73, and the system 22 said 73, but there's only 72, how are you 23 saying you actually counted? 24 MS. NOEL: Bu there at 10:00, it's 73 on 25 here and it's 73 on here. EFTA00118037 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 280 1 MR. : Correct. Because that's 2 the - the institution count it off. 3 MS. NOEL: Right but at 4 MR. : So 5 MS. NOEL: So - but I'm confused because 6 at 10 it says it's 73. 7 MR. FOY: But they're saying this is 8 wrong. This paper is wrong. 9 MR. : And it was caught at 10 midnight. 11 MS. NOEL: Okay. But this is -. Well 12 then I don't know. I don't know. 13 MR. : Do we want to continue on 14 this or keep going? 15 MR. : Oh keep going. 16 MR. : Alright. So prior to 17 6:33 a.m. on August 10, 2019, when was the last 18 time that you conducted a round within the SHU? 19 Now we're talking about a round. 20 MS. NOEL: I don't remember the time, but 21 I didn't conduct no round between 12:00 and the 22 12:00 to 8:00 shift. 23 MR. : So this - what we're 24 talking about - what you're calling a count 25 that you're saying would then that the last EFTA00118038 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 281 1 time be that you conducted either a round or a 2 count? 3 MS. NOEL: After 10:00. 4 MR. : Would that -? When we're 5 discussing at the 10:00 p.m.? Would have you 6 done something between then and 12:00? 7 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. This is the 8 last that I remember with the count at 10:00. 9 MR. : So the last one that you 10 can recall is the one that we're discussing -- 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : -- on the 10:00 p.m. 13 count? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : Okay. So probably around 16 10:00 p.m. would have been the last. 17 MS. NOEL: You can say that. 18 MR. : What time does that count 19 slip show? 20 MS. NOEL: The count slips shows 10:00. On 21 here is says 10:30 p.m. 22 MR. : 10:30 p.m.? 23 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Do you - no-no-no. 25 That's the institutional count. EFTA00118039 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 282 1 MS. NOEL: On the count slip, it says 2 10:00. It's always going to say that. Like 3 even if -. Like on the count slip, let's say 4 if I counted at 10:15, it's still going to say 5 10:00 because -- 6 MR. : Alright. 7 MS. NOEL: -- it's the 10:00 count. 8 MR. : So -. 9 MS. NOEL: So that's what I'm saying. A 10 round. 11 MR. : So this one -. I just 12 want you to try to kind of -. Because this 13 would have been if you actually conducted the 14 count and you actually looked at the people, 15 this would have been the last time you saw 16 Epstein. Correct? 17 MS. NOEL: Correct. 18 MR. : Alright. So I just want 19 you to consider that with all that's 20 surrounding this, you've got to kind of in your 21 mind think, "When is the las time that I saw 22 him?" 23 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Is this the last time you 25 can remember seeing him? EFTA00118040 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Alright. So do you 3 remember -? 4 MS. NOEL: Until the incident. 5 MR. : Right. 6 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 7 MR. : So would that - do you 8 remember if that would have been at 10:00? A 9 little after? A little bit before? And again, 10 this is the last time you saw this big guy 11 whose caused your life to flip upside down. 12 MS. NOEL: But I can't -. That's what I'm 13 saying. 14 MR. : But would he -. 15 MR. : You just got to ballpark 16 it. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. NOEL: It's somewhere around after 19 10:00. 20 MR. : So you just always write 21 the time of the count. 22 MS. NOEL: Yeah. With the counts, even if 23 Because remember, on the unit, you're 24 waiting to count. So let's say you fill out 25 the 10:00 slip. But let's say we didn't EFTA00118041 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 284 1 actually go down range until 10:30. You don't 2 actually put 10:30. It's a 10:00 count. So 3 it's always going to say 10:00. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MS. NOEL: So that's what I'm saying. 6 Just ballpark it. 7 MR. : So approximately 10:00 8 p.m. 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. Or after 10:00. 10 MR. : Okay. So on the round 11 sheet. Does that also say 10:00 p.m.? I mean 12 I know you said you prepopulated that one. But 13 what does that one say? And that's for August 14 9th. You already said August 10th, none of the 15 rounds were conducted. On August 9th, I guess 16 around the 10:00, you know that nothing after 17 10:00 was actually conducted on the round 18 sheet? 19 MS. NOEL: It has after 10:00 on here. 20 MR. : Okay. So those ones. 21 Those ones from then on you know those weren't 22 conducted. 23 MS. NOEL: Right. Remember I didn't fill 24 this out. 25 MR. : You prepopulated it. EFTA00118042 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 285 1 Right. So I'm just - want to make sure we know 2 that -- 3 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 4 MR. : -- you said some of them 5 you conducted. 6 MS. NOEL: Right. 7 MR. : You don't remember which 8 ones you did. 9 MS. NOEL: Right. 10 MR. : But I just know that 11 those ones weren't conducted. 12 MR. : Right. 13 MR. : After 10:00 p.m. 14 MS. NOEL: Right. 15 MR. : Okay. Alright. So that 16 last You're saying the last round and the 17 count were one and the same. And was that an 18 authorized practice? Is a round and a count if 19 you're doing a 10:00 p.m. count, does that also 20 what you can document on the round sheet as 21 something you did at 10:00 p.m.? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. So they can 24 overlap for that. 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00118043 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 286 1 MR. : Were any supervisors 2 present for any cell counts or rounds in the 3 SHU on either August 9th or August 10, 2019? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : No? Should any 6 supervisors have been present for any cell 7 counts or rounds in the SHU on August 9th or 8 August 10, 2019? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Is there a requirement -? 11 Or was there at that time that a supervisor - 12 every supervisor at least one per shift should 13 have conducted a round or a count with you guys 14 in the SHU? Not of you staff members, but of 15 the inmates? 16 MS. NOEL: You're saying if the supervisor 17 should have did -? 18 MR. : Should a supervisor, you 19 know like a lieutenant -- 20 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 21 MR. : -- observed or 22 participated in a round or a count of the 23 inmates during their shift? At least once? Do 24 you know of that? 25 MS. NOEL: I think so. EFTA00118044 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 287 1 MR. : You think that they're 2 supposed to do that? 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : And during your time in 5 the SHU, did a lieutenant ever participate or 6 observe a count or round while you were in the 7 SHU? 8 MS. NOEL: did. 9 MR. did. 10 MS. NOEL: did because she went 11 down on the tiers. But on the midnight to 12 8:00, Lieutenant didn't walk the 13 tiers. 14 MR. : Okay. So when did 15 on August 9th, she actually walked the tiers 16 and checked -- 17 MS. NOEL: Yes she did. 18 MR. : -- out the inmates? 19 MS. NOEL: She did. 20 MR. : She did? Okay. And 21 around would have that been? Do you remember? 22 MS. NOEL: I don't remember the time. 23 MR. : Did she do it by herself? 24 Or did she go with you guys while you were 25 conducting a round or a count? EFTA00118045 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 288 1 MS. NOEL: No. She didn't do anything 2 with us. 3 MR. : So she did it by herself? 4 MS. NOEL: Correct. 5 MR. : She walked up and down 6 each of the six tiers? 7 MS. NOEL: She went down the tiers. 8 MR. : Do you know if that is a 9 requirement that a lieutenant does that in the 10 SHU? 11 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 12 MR. : Had you ever observed 13 anyone prior to August 9th - doing that? 14 MS. NOEL: Observe a lieutenant going down 15 the tier? 16 MR. : Either do it themselves - 17 the lieutenant do the round themselves - or 18 watch the staff members do it? 19 MS. NOEL: Oh no, they never -. No they 20 never watch us do -. 21 MR. : Never watched? Never 22 observed? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Did they ever conduct it 25 with you? EFTA00118046 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 289 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : But they would 3 occasionally do it themselves? 4 MS. NOEL: make -. The 5 lieutenants will make a round. Yes. 6 MR. : So not just pop into the 7 SHU, but actually go up and down the -? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. Some. Not all. 9 MR. : Some? Alright. And 10 that's what I'm asking. Do you know if it's a 11 requirement that -? 12 MS. NOEL: That I don't know if it's 13 required. 14 MR. : So you don't know what 15 policy or -- 16 MS. NOEL: I don't know what the 17 lieutenant -. 18 MR. : -- rule or what they're 19 supposed to or not do? 20 MS. NOEL: What's supposed to do. 21 MR. : Alright. But that didn't 22 happen. Did that happen more often than not? 23 Or -? When they were actually doing a round 24 with the inmates. Lieutenants. 25 MS. NOEL: If it happened that they walked EFTA00118047 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 290 1 the tiers? 2 MR. : Correct. 3 MS. NOEL: Some of them do. Not all. 4 MR. : Which ones would do it? 5 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant was the SHU 6 lieutenant so he walks the tiers all the time. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. NOEL: And then the other lieutenants 9 that's on, when they come, they sign the round 10 sheets. 11 MR. : But do they actually do 12 rounds themselves? Or they just sign your 13 sheet and check in with you? 14 MS. NOEL: They don't do it all the time. 15 They sign the sheet. And they check in with 16 me. And they'll say like is there anything 17 going on. But they don't physically actually 18 walk it all the time. 19 MR. : Okay. So it's 20 occasionally. 21 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : Alright. But you don't 23 Okay. 24 MS. NOEL: I don't know if it's a 25 requirement. EFTA00118048 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 291 1 MR. : Alright. You're saying 2 you don't recall the 4:00 p.m. You may have. 3 You might not have. 4 MS. NOEL: I don't recall. 5 MR. : You just don't recall. 6 Alright. So 12:00 a.m., 3:00 a.m., 5:00 a.m. 7 We don't need to go into these specific things. 8 You said none of them were conducted. They 9 were false. You both signed them and submitted 10 them. Correct? 11 MS. NOEL: Correct. For the 12 MR. : And you knew that you - 13 and you knew that you had to do the count. You 14 just -. 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : What conversations did 17 you have with Thomas about doing that? 18 MS. NOEL: We didn't have a conversation. 19 He was exhausted and he was sleeping. 20 MR. : Thomas? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : So at 12:00 a.m. until 23 Because you said you filled them all out at 24 about 12:00? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00118049 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : And you didn't have 2 conversation about filling them out at 12:00? 3 MS. NOEL: No because we do that all the 4 time. Like when he came in, we filled them 5 out. And then, I think when the phone rang, he 6 had the conversation. And then there was 7 another time when I was looking of for the 8 counts slip, he had it and I couldn't find it. 9 So I had to like wake him up to resign the 10 count slip. 11 MR. : Now give me - can you 12 walk me through that? So he gets a call. You 13 already filled out the count slips. Was one 14 submitted? You put it through the door and 15 internal came and got it? 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : And that's when they 18 called him back? 19 MS. NOEL: And he spoke to whoever. And 20 then he wrote on the count slip. And we filled 21 it out. And I put it back through the door. 22 MR. : For the corrected one 23 that said 73? Then you made it 72? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. But I know I 25 filled out a new one. EFTA00118050 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : At 12:00 a.m.? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : And did you have to at 4 that time fill out a new 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 5 a.m.? 6 MS. NOEL: Yeah. Because I couldn't find 7 the count slips that he had and I filled it 8 out. And I woke him up and he filled it. 9 remember that. 10 MR. : So this was later? So he 11 gets a call. He falls asleep. And then later 12 you have to wake him up to resign? 13 MS. NOEL: No. He gets the call, he does 14 it. And then he falls asleep. When he gets 15 the call to change whatever, we change it. And 16 then he falls asleep. 17 MR. : So you only changed the 18 12:00 a.m. He falls asleep and then you have 19 to wake him up to change the 3:00 a.m. and the 20 5:00 a.m.? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : Okay. And you just never 23 talked about what you were doing? 24 MS. NOEL: No we didn't talk about it. As 25 far as like -. EFTA00118051 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 2 1 MR. : Because that's just 2 common practice there? 3 MS. NOEL: What? To fill out the count 4 slips before? 5 MR. : To prepopulated count 6 slips. You're supposed to count inmates to 7 make sure that they're there. And write the 8 number of what you counted. 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : You just -. Common 11 practice is you just fill that out first. And 12 you said that you don't have access to what the 13 count number is supposed to be. It's just -- 14 MS. NOEL: I never said I don't have 15 access. I don't know how to. I don't know if 16 I have access. I don't know how to find what 17 it's supposed to be. 18 MR. : So how do you get the 19 number that you write on the slip? 20 MS. NOEL: We're not -. The number that 21 wrote on the slip the officer gave it to me. 22 MR. : So whoever you replace, 23 they tell you what number to write? 24 MS. NOEL: They -. 25 MR. : You prepopulated that EFTA00118052 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 295 1 number. Is that correct? 2 MS. NOEL: Correct. And you fill it out. 3 Even on a regular housing unit, I fill it all 4 out. And then I count. Because even if it's 5 wrong, you can just rewrite it. 6 MR. : Right. 7 MS. NOEL: Because even if I come in and 8 you say it's 72. And I fill it out and I put 9 72 on all of them. I know nobody there's no 10 movement between 12 and 8. So even if I did 11 that and I put 72, and I counted and it's 12 wrong, I could just change it. So that's the 13 way I've always done it. 14 MR. : Does that sound weird to 15 you? Or just me? 16 MS. NOEL: What? 17 MR. : That that's the way it's 18 done. That you prepopulated all these numbers 19 and then you just change them later if they end 20 up being off? 21 MS. NOEL: No. Because they're usually 22 not off. 23 MR. : Um. 24 MS. NOEL: And then like if I'm working a 25 unit -. If I work that unit and I did a double EFTA00118053 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 296 1 there, I counted, so I know that's what it is. 2 So it doesn't sound crazy that I fill it out. 3 MR. : Well in this instance it 4 does because your count was wrong - the one you 5 said that you counted. 6 MS. NOEL: Okay. But that's that case. 7 But I'm saying like it's not -. If I worked a 8 double on 11 North and I've been there the 9 shift before and the shift after, and I filled 10 it out. I know there's no movement. So no, 11 it's not crazy that I filled it out. 12 MR. : Right. So. Had you 13 worked with Thomas prior to this instance? 14 MS. NOEL: Never. 15 MR. : You never did? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : And there was no 18 conversation with him about these not doing the 19 counts or prepopulating these count slips? 20 MS. NOEL: No. About prepopulating the 21 count slips, he came in, he filled it out and I 22 signed it. It wasn't a conversation about 23 that. When it was time to do the - when it was 24 time to conduct the count, I tried to wake him 25 up and he was really tired. He was like I'm EFTA00118054 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 297 1 tired. And I didn't - we didn't conduct the 2 count. 3 MR. : Alright. And that was at 4 - what time was that? At 12:00? 5 MS. NOEL: I don't remember what time. 6 MR. : What count would have 7 that been for that you tried to wake him up he 8 said he was tired? 9 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 10 MR. : You don't know? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Would have it been the 13 12:00? Because you're already -- 14 MS. NOEL: It could have been the 12:00, 15 it could have been the 3:00, I don't know. 16 MR. : Alright. 17 MS. NOEL: He was tired. 18 MR. : So that was the one 19 conversation -- 20 MS. NOEL: Because I counted upstairs. 21 Like why would I go upstairs and count a unit 22 and leave my unit? So I woke him up. He was 23 tired. So I went upstairs and I counted with 24 25 MR. : And what time was that? EFTA00118055 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 298 1 MS. NOEL: 3:00 and 5:00. 2 MR. : You did the 3:00 and the 3 5:00 with 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : You just didn't do the 6 1:00 in your unit? 7 MS. NOEL: Right. 8 MR. : Okay. Um. Um. I'm just 9 -. The only problem I -. I'm trying to 10 reconcile the fact that you've never worked 11 with Thomas before. You didn't have any 12 conversation with him about it. 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : He didn't -. That's why 15 I'm saying it sounds like it must be just 16 common practice. 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : You just don't conduct 19 counts. You just fill out eh forms. 20 MS. NOEL: We didn't have a conversation 21 about filling it out. No because that's common 22 in there. 23 MR. : Alright. So it's very 24 common. Is it very common from like 12:00 a.m. 25 to the 5:00 a.m. count? Those three? Not to EFTA00118056 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 299 1 conduct the counts and just write them? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : No it's not common or is 4 it common? 5 MS. NOEL: You're saying if it's not 6 common to conduct the count or if it's common 7 to (Indiscernible *03:33:51) it? 8 MR. : Is it common not to 9 conduct the counts at night or the early 10 morning hours? 11 MS. NOEL: I don't know because that's my 12 first time ever not doing it. So I don't know 13 if it's common not to conduct the count. But 14 it is common to fill it out before. 15 MR. FOY: You need to make that more 16 clear. Did you ever work midnight to 8:00 a.m. 17 to have an experience to say what happens? 18 MS. NOEL: No. Not in the SHU. 19 MR. : So you've never worked 20 midnight to 8:00 a.m. prior to this instance? 21 MS. NOEL: In the SHU? No. 22 MR. : Okay. On the other times 23 you were in the SHU, was it common to fill out 24 count slips that weren't conducted? 25 MS. NOEL: In the other times that I've EFTA00118057 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 300 1 worked in the SHU we fill -. 2 MR. : So you're saying you've 3 never worked in the SHU and we got the schedule 4 in front of you if you want to take a look to 5 just help refresh your memory. Um. When you 6 were in the SHU, was it common to fill out 7 count slips that weren't conducted? 8 MS. NOEL: Count slips, we fill them out 9 and the counts were done. The rounds, it was 10 common to fill them out and the rounds weren't 11 all conducted. 12 MR. : So you're saying it's 13 common to fill them out ahead of time, but it's 14 not common not to conduct the counts? 15 MS. NOEL: The counts. Correct. 16 MR. : Okay. How often were 17 they - when you worked in the SHU, how often 18 were the counts not conducted? 19 MS. NOEL: They were done. 20 MR. : They were always done 21 when you were in there before? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : And this is again one of 24 those things if we go back to video from the 25 days prior, because we had to get video from EFTA00118058 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 301 1 these days. If we review that, are we going to 2 - it's going to show you conducting the counts? 3 MS. NOEL: Yeah. I don't have to conduct 4 the count because if I'm working with two more 5 people, they could have did the count. So it 6 doesn't necessarily have to be you're going to 7 see me on the video, but you will see the 8 counts being done. If you get what I'm saying. 9 MR. : No I understand what 10 you're saying. 11 MS. NOEL: If three of us are working, 12 those two could have did it. It doesn't have 13 to be me. 14 MR. : So when you were in the 15 SHU, did -. If you didn't do it, did the two 16 other people always do it? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : Alright. Were you ever 19 on count slips - your assigned count slips 20 that you personally didn't conduct? 21 MS. NOEL: The - no. 22 MR. : So you never signed 23 MS. NOEL: But they're -. If I ever 24 signed the count slips but that the night 25 before the round sheet, I did. EFTA00118059 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 302 1 MR. : I'm sorry, what was that? 2 MS. NOEL: The rounds sheets I did. The 3 count slips no. 4 MR. : The rounds sheets you did 5 what? 6 MS. NOEL: On the 9th, when I filled out 7 the entire count slips, I didn't conduct every 8 single round. 9 MR. : You didn't conduct every 10 single round. 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : So what about on previous 13 incidents? We can switch over to rounds, 14 that's fine. In previous instances when you 15 worked in the SHU, were the rounds conducted as 16 displayed on the count sheets? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : But the counts you're 19 saying they were always conducted when you 20 worked in the SHU? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : So this was just a rare 23 instance. 24 MS. NOEL: It wasn't a rare. It was 25 because he was exhausted. And he was tired and EFTA00118060 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 303 1 he didn't want to count. So we didn't count. 2 MR. : But then you also say 3 at 10:00 p.m. also was exhausted? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : So -- 6 MS. NOEL: And -. 7 MR. : -- that's -- 8 MS. NOEL: And -. 9 MR. : -- not a -. 10 MS. NOEL: And -. Yes and I know because 11 I did it and I wasn't supposed to do it. 12 That's why I didn't continue to do it. Because 13 I'm really not supposed to count - to go down 14 range by myself. So I didn't continue to do 15 it. 16 MR. : You didn't continue to do 17 what? 18 MS. NOEL: The count by myself. 19 MR. : Alright. But you did the 20 entire count at 10:00 p.m.? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : Were there other 23 instances that you worked in the SHU where 24 other people were too tired to conduct their 25 rounds? EFTA00118061 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: No because I usually 2 MR. : Or the counts - not 3 rounds. Counts. 4 MS. NOEL: Because I usually come in on 5 the shift prior. I don't work that so I don't 6 know what goes one. Because that's the tired 7 time. 8 MR. : Right. 9 MS. NOEL: So I usually come in before so 10 I don't have to deal with that. 11 MR. : Alright. But it was just 12 13 MS. NOEL: It was just that one day. 14 MR. : It's the one day. No 15 conversations were had. You try to wake him 16 up. He didn't wake up. So you just didn't do 17 them. And then you didn't even have to say 18 like hey man, we need to do these things. Or 19 like there was just an unspoken thing that he 20 was tired. So you weren't just going to do 21 them? 22 MS. NOEL: Say that again. 23 MR. : I'm just trying to like 24 it sounds like it would be common practice to 25 do this if there's no conversations that were EFTA00118062 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 305 1 had. Usually, it would be like hey if this is 2 the first time I'm not going to do something. 3 I would say like, hey is it cool that we're not 4 going to do this? Or some kind of a 5 conversation. Unless it was something that you 6 had learned or experienced in the past. That 7 like we don't do counts at this time. 8 MS. NOEL: But I never worked the SHU at 9 that time. 10 MR. FOY: This is calling for you to 11 explain your interaction with Thomas. 12 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. FOY: As it relates to the count in 14 particular. Right? 15 MR. : Correct. 16 MR. FOY: He asleep. What's the 17 interaction? What did you say? What did he 18 say? Did you ask one time? Did you ask 19 multiple times? Did he affirmatively say no? 20 Or did he just continue to sleep? That's the 21 level of detail they're asking for. 22 MR. : Yeah. We're asking you 23 to explain all of your interactions with Thomas 24 with regard to these counts. 25 MS. NOEL: Well when it was time to count, EFTA00118063 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 306 1 because remember I'm going upstairs to count. 2 So I wake him up to count. And he was like I'm 3 tired. He was like we have the count slip. 4 I'm tired. He went back to sleep. When the 5 lieutenant came, I woke him up because the 6 lieutenant was coming. He fell back to sleep 7 in front of the lieutenant. She said hey, you 8 need to stay awake. He couldn't' stay awake. 9 I went upstairs and I counted again. 10 MR. FOY: Go back to the lieutenant. 11 Explain that in more detail. There's details 12 you're leaving out of the interaction between 13 Thomas and the lieutenant with respect to him 14 sleeping. 15 MS. NOEL: Oh. I woke him up. The 16 lieutenant came. She came, she found the round 17 sheet. He fell back asleep in front of her. 18 She said, hey you need to wake up. She had 19 papers and she hit him. She says, hey you need 20 to wake up. 21 MR. FOY: That's what I'm talking about. 22 MS. NOEL: She hit him with a stack of 23 papers. So saying that to say like everybody 24 knows like because we're understaffed and 25 overworked. So let's say if I was to tell on EFTA00118064 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Thomas, that's who I would have told it to. 2 She was there. And she saw it. 3 MR. : So she knew. So you 4 didn't as far as like if you were going to 5 report someone sleeping on duty, she's -. You 6 didn't' need to report it because she saw it 7 with her own eyes. 8 MS. NOEL: Exactly. 9 MR. : And he was literally 10 fell asleep in front of her? 11 MS. NOEL: In front of her. Yes. 12 MR. : How long was she there? 13 MS. NOEL: Maybe like five, then minutes. 14 MR. : And that little brief 15 interaction he actually went to sleep in front 16 of her? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. 18 MR. : Okay. So no discussions 19 with Thomas. Just when you would wake him up 20 he just said he was tired. 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : Did you try to wake him 23 up for each count? 24 MS. NOEL: I tried to wake him up for the 25 12:00 and the 3:00. I don't remember if I 307 EFTA00118065 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 308 1 tried to wake him up for the 5:00. Because by 2 that time he went upstairs. I remember he went 3 upstairs to relive . And I don't remember 4 what happened between there as far as waking 5 him up. 6 MR. : Alright. And as far as 7 the inaccuracy of the one count, specifically 8 now we're talking about the 12:00 a.m. that it 9 was actually - it's off. He got a call but he 10 didn't talk to you about what was said on the 11 other line? 12 MS. NOEL: No. He just said we got to 13 change the count slip. And he wrote it. And 14 he changed it. And I signed. 15 MR. : Alright. 16 MS. NOEL: But he didn't say like oh the 17 lieutenant this happened or that happened. No. 18 MR. : Alright. And have you 19 ever experienced previous instances where the 20 count was off from when it was called in? Like 21 if you give the number and they say no that's 22 not right? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : And what happened in 25 those instances? EFTA00118066 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 309 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MS. NOEL: You recount. MR. : You actually did recount? MS. NOEL: On - not in the SHU. In other units. MR. : In other units though. But do you know that that's what is supposed to be done? You need to do - if you call in a wrong number, you're supposed to do a recount? MS. NOEL: Right. But I don't think that was the case with that. Like they called in and gave -. Okay. That was a case where like if I counted wrong, and then they'll say no it's wrong. And then I recount and I get the right number. But in the number because of knew where the inmate this case, they gave him whatever I guess they was or was supposed to be or wasn't moved. That's what I'm saying. I don't know what happened between the 73 an the 72. But when he changed the number, he said the lieutenant said so I just signed it. MR. : But he didn't tell you the lieutenant said do a new count? MS. NOEL: No. MR. : He never informed you of EFTA00118067 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 310 1 that? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : Okay. So you didn't 4 really get into detail about what he said. 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : Okay. But you do believe 7 at 12:00 a.m. a new slip was created. Just not 8 that one. That's not attached to that. The 9 one that actually says 72. 10 MS. NOEL: (Indiscernible *03:42:12) Is 11 that a 12? At 12 here it says 73. 12 MR. : Correct. But that was 13 actually - the top page says 72 and I thought 14 that's the one that you said they made you 15 recreate a count slip. 16 MS. NOEL: Right. 17 MR. : And that's not -. Y 18 don't see that 19 MS. NOEL: That count slip. 20 MR. : -- new count slip on 21 there. Correct? Alright. And I know you 22 Did they have the conversation with Thomas 23 because at 12:00 a.m. he called that count 24 number in and they said he was wrong? Is that 25 when he had that conversation with the EFTA00118068 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 lieutenant? 2 MS. NOEL: No the phone rang. 3 MR. : Alright. So who called 4 the count in at 12:00 a.m.? 5 MS. NOEL: Me. 6 MR. : And did you call - also 7 call the 3:00 a.m. and the 5:00 a.m. in? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Alright. And obviously 10 you called it in without actually conducting 11 the counts. Correct? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Alright. Now it sounds 14 like your attorney has - and you have had this 15 conversation but what was the reason you didn't 16 conduct the counts? 17 MS. NOEL: I didn't conduct the count in 18 my area because he was tired and we're supposed 19 to do them together. So I just didn't do them. 20 MR. : Okay. So would have you 21 done them if he was awake? 22 MS. NOEL: Yeah. Because I did them 23 upstairs. 24 MR. : Okay. And you're saying 25 that you never worked that night shift before, EFTA00118069 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 312 1 but all the other counts you had conducted that 2 you've documented from previous. 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : Documented. You're 5 saying you may have worked with three other 6 people and two of them may have done the 7 counts, but there are - when you've been 8 present in the SHU, all the counts have been 9 conducted. 10 MS. NOEL: Yes. 11 MR. : Okay. And do you know of 12 any other COs or employees that have falsified 13 count slips? 14 MS. NOEL: Count? No. 15 MR. : No. SO you don't know 16 any other. I know you said you prepopulated 17 them in a sense. But like as far as -- 18 MS. NOEL: As far as other units. 19 MR. : -- not conducting the 20 counts and actually writing a number when a 21 count -. Do you know? 22 MS. NOEL: Oh. No. 23 MR. : So all counts that have 24 been submitted to this point when you're in the 25 SHU - someone conducted them. EFTA00118070 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 313 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : And you said you've never 3 actually had a conversation with anyone about 4 counts and how they're documented. You just 5 observed as well like on the round sheets? 6 MS. NOEL: As far as having a 7 conversation? 8 MR. : Did anyone ever train you 9 on how to write count slips? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : No. 12 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 13 MR. : So you just from watching 14 other people fill them out - that's how you 15 learned? 16 MS. NOEL: Yeah because it's just your 17 name and the number of the count. 18 MR. : Sure. 19 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : Okay. You want to take a 21 break now? 22 MR. FOY: Mm-hmm. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. FOY: We've got to eat. 25 MR. : It is 2:21 p.m. This is EFTA00118071 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 314 1 Senior Special Agent and I am 2 pausing the recording. [Whereupon, the above- 3 entitled matter went off the record and went 4 back on the record.] Okay. The recorder is 5 back on. It is 2:28 p.m. Again Ms. Noel you 6 are under oath and this is a voluntary 7 interview. Thank you for your cooperation. 8 Alright. So if you don't mind, just all the 9 documents I have in front of you, can you just 10 initial and date those just again so that we 11 MR. FOY: Yeah. Just on the first page. 12 MR. : -- know what it is that 13 you were looking at during this interview. 14 Thank you very much for initialing and dating 15 all of those. 16 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : Alright. We're just 18 going to talk briefly about the SHU layout. 19 These are papers that have the SHU layout. Now 20 are the - just for your reference if you need 21 to look at them. Are the COs assigned to the 22 SHU located together on one social - one 23 centralized location? Sorry, so the officers 24 that are working in the SHU. Are you all 25 together? You mentioned there's a desk in the EFTA00118072 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 shape of an L. 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : Is everybody together at 4 that location when you're not doing rounds and 5 counts? 6 MS. NOEL: I mean no not really. Somebody 7 could go upstairs to the bathroom. 8 MR. : Okay. During your shift 9 on the 10th. 10 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 11 MR. : Is that where you and 12 aside from when you said you helped out. 13 Is that were the two - you and Thomas were 14 located at that -- 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : -- one central area? 17 There's not another officer station though, 18 correct? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : There's just one 21 officer's station? 22 MS. NOEL: There's one. 23 MR. : Okay. And approximately 24 how many computers are there at that station? 25 MS. NOEL: About three. EFTA00118073 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 316 1 MR. : Three? And you said no 2 one had like an assigned computer like the -- 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : OIC doesn't have one 5 computer? 6 MS. NOEL: You -. 7 MR. : Everyone just uses one 8 computer? 9 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 10 MR. : What can you see from 11 that desk in the SHU? Can you just mark on 12 there where is the actual L desk setup located? 13 So it's the two floors - the two layers. I 14 don't know if you're able to look at the L Tier 15 where Epstein was. That might give you like a 16 what's the first and what's the second. Is it 17 correct that he was on the second level? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : And was he in L Tier? So 20 that might help you out to be able to 21 differentiate between - you see where the cells 22 start with like a letter and then the numbers? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : So that will probably 25 help you to be able to decipher what's the EFTA00118074 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 first level and what's the second level. 2 MS. : Do you know what you're 3 looking at? 4 MR. : So each of the cells have a 5 letter in front of it. 6 MR. : That's to identify the 7 tier. That will be the letter. And then the 8 numbers will be the cell numbers. 9 MS. NOEL: Uh-huh. Okay. 10 MR. : So by - can you figure 11 out by looking at that? So if the one that 12 begins with L that would be the second level. 13 Do you follow that? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : And then there's the 16 first level. Is there actually almost like 17 third level where the officers sit? It is like 18 two different - the way it's tiered. 19 MS. NOEL: No. It's on the main level. 20 MR. : Okay. So where the first 21 set of inmates are. 22 MS. NOEL: See it's stairs. You've got to 23 go down and you've got to go up. 24 MR. : Right. Okay. 25 MS. NOEL: So it's not where we're EFTA00118075 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 318 1 sitting. You've got to go down and you've got 2 to go up to get to the cell. 3 MR. : Okay. So on that looking 4 at like the first level of inmates, can you 5 just kind of identify where it is that that L 6 shape setup is? 7 MS. NOEL: Over here. 8 MR. : Can you just mark it? 9 Maybe like an X or a circle or something. 10 Okay. Thank you. And from where you're 11 sitting can you see all the cell doors from 12 there? 13 MS. NOEL: Not all. 14 MR. : Not all. 15 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 16 MR. : Could you see the door to 17 Epstein's cell from there? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : Alright. Can you mark on 20 there where you recall Epstein to have been? 21 Alright. Thank you. And does that have a cell 22 number on it? 23 MR. : I think those numbers 24 correspond with this. 25 MR. : That's fine. EFTA00118076 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 319 1 MS. NOEL: Um. 2 MR. FOY: Because I'm thinking is it? 3 Because you have to be able to see in here. 4 MS. : This is your unit entrance. 5 This is where you enter. This is L Tier. 6 Right. The - you walk in. L, M, J, K. So if 7 this is J, this is you walking into your 8 housing unit. 9 MS. NOEL: (Indiscernible *03:51:16) by 10 turning left. 11 MS. : Yes. So. 12 MR. : And maybe put X and a 13 circle just so I know what it is that you just 14 changed. 15 MR. FOY: Put a circle around that X and 16 that will be the desk. 17 MR. : Perfect. 18 MR. FOY: Alright? 19 MR. : Alright. And then you 20 is it correct where you identify where -? 21 MS. NOEL: Epstein 22 MR. : Epstein. What number was 23 that? 24 MS. NOEL: 988. 25 MR. : You believe that he was EFTA00118077 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 320 1 in - was that L988? 2 MS. NOEL: I don't remember the number 3 that he was in. I just know when you go up the 4 stairs, it's the first one on the right. 5 MR. : Let me just so that we're 6 not. I just want to make sure that we're not 7 . Huh. Okay. So they don't actually 8 correspond with the numbers. 9 MS. NOEL: No (Indiscernible *03:52:08). 10 MR. : We have that. 11 MR. : Do you remember what room he 12 was in? 13 MS. NOEL: On L Tier? 14 MR. : Yeah. L Tier. 15 MS. NOEL: The first cell on the right. 16 MR. : The room number by any 17 chance? 18 MS. NOEL: Oh I don't know the room 19 number. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : Um. Okay. But you could 22 see his actual door from where you were 23 sitting? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Yes. Okay. And could EFTA00118078 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 321 1 you see inside his cell from where you were 2 sitting? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : No. Approximately again 5 we're talking about like that's where the 6 shower was - what you were talking about. 7 Approximately how far was Epstein's cell from 8 where you were seated? 9 MS. NOEL: Mm. To like where that chair 10 is. 11 MR. : Ten to 15 feet? 12 MS. NOEL: Probably. 13 MR. : Okay. Alright. So the 14 reason why I'm asking that. Did you or anyone 15 else ever go in or out of Epstein's cell on 16 August 10, 2019? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : And would have you known 19 if someone did? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : Okay. While you were 22 physically present in the SHU of course. 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : And you said the only 25 times you weren't present in the SHU on August EFTA00118079 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 322 1 -. Or let's talk from you said 10:00 p.m. is 2 the last time - around 10:00 p.m. is the last 3 time you saw him. 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : From 10:00 p.m. until 6 approximately 6:33 a.m., what times did you 7 when did you leave the SHU? I know one time 8 you said you helped with the counts up in 10 9 South. And you may have said you were gone in 10 the bathroom around. 11 MS. NOEL: (Indiscernible *03:53:38) 12 MR. : When would have those 13 times have occurred? 14 MS. NOEL: Um 3:00 or right after 3:00, 15 5:00 or around after 5:00, going to the 16 bathroom I don't remember the times. 17 MR. : Okay. So around 3:00 18 a.m., around 5:00 a.m., and then one other time 19 to use the restroom? 20 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 21 MR. : And where is the restroom 22 located in the SHU? 23 MS. NOEL: Upstairs where I go to count. 24 MR. : Okay. But Thomas was 25 present any time you were not there? EFTA00118080 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 323 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : Although he may have been 3 sleeping. 4 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : Okay. And are you - of 6 the people that we've talked about, you said 7 that the lieutenant visited the SHU 8 approximately 4:00 a.m. That was Lieutenant 9 10 MS. NOEL: Yes. 11 MR. : Who else from 10:00 p.m. 12 until 6:33 a.m. were in the SHU? 13 MS. NOEL: (Indiscernible 14 MR. : Well so -. 15 MS. NOEL: Um 16 MR. -: left at around 17 10:00. 18 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 19 MR. left around 20 12:00 a.m. Anyone else? 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : What about when 23 came thought the SHU? So I just want to make 24 sure you're -. I know we've kind of discussed 25 some of this stuff. EFTA00118081 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 324 1 MS. NOEL: Oh you're talking about the 2 people that's working there? 3 MR. : Everybody that's been in 4 the SHU. So there's you, there's Thomas. Who 5 else was actually in the SHU from 10:00 p.m. - 6 the last time you saw Epstein - up until about 7 6:30 when he was discovered? 8 MS. NOEL: , Lieutenant 9 and 10 MR. : And 11 MS. NOEL: He left at 10:00. 12 MR. : At 10:00. So at 10:00 he 13 left. They're the only other people there? 14 MS. NOEL: That's it. 15 MR. : Okay. No one else? 16 MS. NOEL: No one else. 17 MR. : And you're confident 18 positive about that? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : Alright. And did any of 21 those individuals that visited the SHU go near 22 Epstein's cell? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : So no one even went near 25 it? EFTA00118082 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 325 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Let alone go in it. 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : No one went in it? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : Okay. That's all we need 7 to talk about with the SHU. Do you mind just 8 initialing and dating that? And are you aware 9 -? I guess the one other thing I'll ask. I 10 know I asked when you were there. But when you 11 were gone to do the counts in 10 South as well 12 as use the restroom, are you aware of anyone 13 visiting the SHU during those times? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : No? Okay. 16 MR. : I have a follow-up question. 17 MR. : Go ahead. 18 MR. : When you left to go assist, 19 did you take the keys with you? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : So could Mr. Thomas have let 22 anyone in and out? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Oh so he wouldn't have 25 even had the ability to let anyone in based EFTA00118083 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 326 1 upon you having the keys the whole time? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : And did you have the keys 4 because you were SHU officer number one? 5 MS. NOEL: I guess. I mean I just had 6 them. 7 MR. : Okay. There wasn't a 8 discussion -- 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : -- like I'm SHU one, I 11 get the keys? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : Do you know that SHU one 14 is supposed to be the one who has the keys? Do 15 you know that (Indiscernible *03:56:05)? 16 MS. NOEL: I think so. 17 MR. : Okay. Do you know if you 18 have any conversations with Thomas about if you 19 had the keys or he had the keys? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Okay. Anyone that 22 entered or exited the SHU that day, are you the 23 one that let them in or out? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Thomas didn't let anybody EFTA00118084 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 32 1 in or out? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : Okay. Are you aware of 4 any cameras were not recording within the SHU 5 on August 9th or 10th 2019? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : You're not aware? Are 8 you aware at this point? Not just at the time. 9 But are you aware now if any cameras were or 10 were not recording? 11 MS. NOEL: I mean I'm aware now. 12 MR. : That's what I mean. What 13 is your - what are you aware of now? 14 MS. NOEL: Oh I don't know like what 15 specifically. I just heard that some of the 16 cameras were not working. As far as which ones 17 18 MR. : But you don't know which 19 ones? 20 MS. NOEL: -- or no. 21 MR. : Okay. And at the time 22 you didn't know? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : So you don't know if they 25 weren't working when they stopped working? EFTA00118085 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 328 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Are there any like - do 3 you have the ability to monitor cameras from 4 the SHU? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : So if you're sitting in 7 there, there's not like camera down range that 8 you can like - you can see what's going on in 9 each range? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : No? Do you know if 12 someone is live monitoring either - anywhere in 13 the SHU during operations? 14 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 15 MR. : You don't know if you're 16 being monitored or the inmates are being 17 monitored? 18 MS. NOEL: I don't know. I know there is 19 cameras on the tiers. 20 MR. : Right. Do you know if 21 anybody's live monitoring them? 22 MS. NOEL: Oh. I don't know. 23 MR. : You don't? And do you 24 know if there's any cameras pointed at you in 25 the desk area? EFTA00118086 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 329 1 MS. NOEL: Oh, I don't know. 2 MR. : And you don't know if 3 anybody is monitoring those either? 4 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 5 MR. : (Indiscernible *03:57:54) 6 MR. : I think it will be fine. 7 So you are not - we can just skip the rest of 8 those questions. You're not aware of any 9 cameras at the time not working? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : So no one reported that 12 to you and you didn't report it to anyone else? 13 MS. NOEL: No. I didn't know anything 14 about cameras. 15 MR. : Alright. And we talked a 16 little bit about sleeping on duty. So it 17 sounds like was Thomas asleep pretty much the 18 entire shift then? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : From pretty much 12:00 21 a.m. until he -. 22 MS. NOEL: Until he went upstairs. 23 MR. : Until he went upstairs? 24 Went upstairs to do what? To feed? 25 MS. NOEL: To relieve EFTA00118087 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 330 1 MR. : To relieve 2 Alright. I might be getting confused. I 3 thought you were relieved 4 MR. : She went up there to do the 5 count. Then reached out to her to ask 6 her to relieve him. She called the lieutenant. 7 Verified with the lieutenant and then Mr. 8 Thomas went up to relive him. 9 MR. : Okay. And around what 10 time was that? 11 MS. NOEL: After 5:00. 12 MR. : Okay. So basically from 13 12:00 to about 5:00 he was sleeping? 14 MS. NOEL: I mean in intervals. Like I 15 tapped him. He kind of woke up. 16 MR. : Right. 17 MS. NOEL: But he went back to sleep. 18 MR. : Okay. But he wasn't 19 doing his duties. He was sleeping. 20 MS. NOEL: Correct. 21 MR. : Did you sleep during the 22 shift? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : You didn't sleep at all? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00118088 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 331 1 MR. : For the period that you 2 were sitting at the desk for like two hours 3 without moving were you awake? 4 MS. NOEL: Yeah on my computer. 5 MR. : You were on the computer? 6 Were you and Thomas seated next to one another? 7 MS. NOEL: No. We were seated next to 8 each other but not facing each other. Like he 9 was faced that way. I was faced the other way. 10 MR. : Okay. Close proximity to 11 one another? 12 MS. NOEL: Yeah. Like he's there and I'm 13 here. 14 MR. : So about three or four 15 feet from each other? 16 MS. NOEL: Yeah. But the back is turned 17 because he's that way and I was that way. 18 MR. : Okay. But you were not 19 sleeping? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Now are you guys 22 authorized to sleep in the SHU? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : No? And have you ever 25 fallen asleep previously while on duty at the EFTA00118089 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MCC? 2 MS. NOEL: Not in the SHU. 3 MR. : Not in the SHU but other 4 places? 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : Where would you - where 7 did you sleep at other places? 8 MS. NOEL: Where did I fall asleep? 9 MR. : Mm-hmm. 10 MS. NOEL: On a regular housing unit. 11 MR. : The regular housing unit? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Can you just give me a 14 little more information on that? What do you 15 mean? Were you allowed to sleep there? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : And where were 18 (Indiscernible *04:00:15)? 19 MS. NOEL: Like I worked consecutively 20 like five days of overtime. And I would like 21 doze off - caught myself like that. But not 22 sleep. 23 MR. : Okay. So you've faller. 24 asleep in other housing units. 25 MS. NOEL: Like dozed off. EFTA00118090 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 333 1 MR. : Right. Because you were 2 overworked? 3 MS. NOEL: Yeah when I work like three or 4 four days of 16 hours, yes. 5 MR. : And how often would that 6 happen? 7 MS. NOEL: Every - how often would I fall 8 asleep -- 9 MR. : Yeah. 10 MS. NOEL: -- or the overtime? 11 MR. : How often would you fall 12 asleep? 13 MS. NOEL: Oh that was like for one or two 14 times. But I don't -. 15 MR. : I understand. But in the 16 SHU you had never fallen asleep before? 17 MS. NOEL: No because I don't work that 18 graveyard shift. 19 MR. : Well I just mean even 20 during your regular shifts 21 MS. NOEL: Right. 22 MR. : Because it sounds like 23 you guys were working a lot. 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Um so but in the SHU, you EFTA00118091 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 334 1 didn't fall asleep that night and never before 2 in the SHU? 3 MS. NOEL: In the SHU no because it's 4 daytime I'm on. 5 MR. : You said that was your 6 first time working with Thomas? 7 MS. NOEL: Yes. 8 MR. : Was that ever with Thomas 9 or just in the SHU? Did you ever work with 10 Thomas outside of the SHU? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Would you ever like - met 13 with him or interacted with him -- 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : -- prior to this? Just 16 socially or -? 17 MS. NOEL: He brings inmates to the units 18 to give out stuff. So we've spoke and said 19 hello. 20 MR. : Okay. Do you know if 21 Thomas - have you ever heard of Thomas sleeping 22 on the job previous to this incident? 23 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 24 MR. : No? And you said you did 25 try to wake him up a couple times? EFTA00118092 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 335 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : But he said he was just 3 tired? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : And you said you didn't 6 report the matter to a lieutenant because he 7 actually fell asleep in front of the 8 lieutenant? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : And at that time, she hit 11 him with a piece of paper and said wake up. 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : And how did he respond to 14 that? 15 MS. NOEL: He woke up. 16 MR. : Was there a conversation 17 at all? Did he say oh I'm just exhausted? 18 MS. NOEL: Well he didn't say that. But 19 she said that. She was like that's the problem 20 in here. The overwork and the understaff. 21 MR. : So with him falling 22 asleep that's how she responded? 23 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 24 MR. : Yeah. 25 MS. NOEL: Yeah. But she didn't respond EFTA00118093 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 336 1 like that to him. She was saying that to me. 2 That's the problem in MCC. Everybody's 3 overworked and understaffed. 4 MR. : Okay. After she left did 5 he fall back asleep? 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : Have you ever witnessed 8 any other staff member fall asleep at the MCC? 9 MS. NOEL: No because you're in a unit by 10 yourself. 11 MR. : You're in what - the 12 housing units or the SHU? 13 MS. NOEL: Yeah. Like when I'm in the 14 housing unit -. Remember I don't work the SHU 15 that time, so I wouldn't know if people are 16 sleeping at that time. In the housing unit 17 you're by yourself. So I can't witness nobody. 18 MR. : Okay. And you have your 19 own little office there -- 20 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 21 MR. : -- when you're in the 22 housing unit. And that's where you might be 23 able to doze off? 24 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 25 MR. : As far as in the SHU did EFTA00118094 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 337 1 you ever experience anyone else sleeping aside 2 from Thomas? 3 MS. NOEL: that day before. 4 MR. : Okay. And I do 5 apologize. It's just been so long now. How 6 long did he sleep for? 7 MS. NOEL: Who 8 MR. : Yeah. 9 MS. NOEL: From about after 10:00 until it 10 was time for him to go. 11 MR. : So 10:00 to 12:00? Okay. 12 And did you try to wake him up at all? 13 MS. NOEL: No because he was on a triple. 14 MR. : Okay. Alright. Now 15 we're going to do -. You said you were on the 16 internet. Are you authorized to use the 17 internet when you're in the SHU? 18 MS. NOEL: I don't know if I'm authorized 19 to use the internet in the SHU but I did. I 20 don't know if I'm authorized. 21 MR. : Alright. And did you 22 conduct internet queries when you were assigned 23 to the SHU on August 10, 2019? 24 MS. NOEL: What do you mean? Like 25 internet searches. EFTA00118095 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 338 1 MR. : Did you like Google 2 things or look things up when you were in 3 there? 4 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 5 MR. : Well just tell me. What 6 did you search for? 7 MS. NOEL: Well yeah that's what - I was 8 looking at um a benefit page for something. I 9 was checking for one of my benefits. And -. 10 MR. FOY: Continue with it. I've just got 11 to - this is a jail call. 12 MR. : Okay. So attorney Foy is 13 stepping out. However attorney is it Sarraga? 14 MR. SARRAGA: Yep. 15 MR. : Sarraga is still present. 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. And then I think I looked 17 at I think it's furniture. 18 MR. : Okay. Did you do any -? 19 Do you remember conducting any internet queries 20 related to Epstein? 21 MS. NOEL: No. I don't remember doing 22 that. 23 MR. : So you don't remember 24 actually conducting queries on Epstein around 25 4:00 or 5:00 a.m.? EFTA00118096 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 339 1 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 2 MR. : On August 10th? No? 3 Okay. Does that surprise you for me to ask 4 that question? 5 MS. NOEL: If I don't remember doing that? 6 MR. : I don't know. Had you 7 queried him before? Had you looked up Epstein 8 previously? 9 MS. NOEL: I don't recall looking him up. 10 MR. : No? 11 MS. NOEL: No. because when you open the 12 computer, and when you click on it, like he's 13 there in the - in the Google search. Like he's 14 there. 15 MR. : Epstein is? 16 MS. NOEL: Like when you click on the 17 browser. You know like if you open it Emerson 18 or Google, like how it has that little news 19 piece. Like one time he was there. 20 MR. : And was that on August 21 10th? 22 MS. NOEL: No. I don't recall that being 23 on August 10th. I don't remember. But I don't 24 recall it being on August 10th. 25 MR. : So as in like maybe EFTA00118097 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 340 1 somebody else was looking him up and it just 2 prepopulated when you turned on the computer? 3 MS. NOEL: I don't think it does that. 4 Like on the searches, like the current news 5 will be there. So he's in the current news, so 6 he'll be there. 7 MR. : Oh. Alright. 8 MS. NOEL: It won't like load the page. 9 Like when you click on like Internet Explorer 10 or you click on like Firefox or whatever. When 11 the page loads, the news is there, weather. 12 MR. : Okay. So if you 13 prepopulated something and then you searched on 14 that day, Epstein at the MCC, that possibly 15 could have been something that was like on a 16 news feed? 17 MS. NOEL: When you say prepopulated, like 18 that as soon as you click it like it was there. 19 Not like you said a search. 20 MR. : So you weren't. Yeah. 21 Like a search. Like you were actually looking 22 at it. Or if like a news feed. 23 MS. NOEL: Oh yeah. Like I'm looking at 24 it because it's there. But not like typing it 25 in. EFTA00118098 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 341 1 MR. : So you're not like 2 actually going to Google or Yahoo or some kind 3 of a search engine and -- 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : -- saying Epstein? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : Alright. Do you remember 8 reviewing news articles on Epstein 9 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 10 MR. : -- on August 10th? 11 MS. NOEL: On August 10th? I don't recall 12 if it was August 10th but I remember when I saw 13 it I like scrolled and read it. 14 MR. : Okay. And what was the 15 purpose of that? 16 MS. NOEL: What was the purpose of that? 17 MR. : Yep. 18 MS. NOEL: Because he's in there. I just 19 scrolled and -. 20 MR. : Sure. So you're trying 21 to learn about the inmate that was -. 22 MS. NOEL: And read it. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MS. NOEL: Because remember, I was asked 25 like do I know who that was. And I was like EFTA00118099 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 342 1 no. and they was like he's always in the news. 2 So when I saw it, I just briefly like skimmed 3 to see like what he was in the news for but -. 4 MR. : Okay. And do you recall 5 at 5:42 to 5:52 on August 10, 2019 looking at 6 articles related to Epstein? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : You do not recall that? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Do you remember searching 11 for him? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : Or having anything to do 14 with when you're on the internet? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : With Epstein in 17 (Indiscernible *04:07:02)? 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : 5:52? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : No? Does it surprise you 22 to hear that you know internet searches would 23 show that that's what you were doing from 5:42 24 to 5:52 a.m. on August 10, 2019? 25 MS. NOEL: Yeah. EFTA00118100 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 343 1 MR. : That does surprise you? 2 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : So do you think that 4 would not be accurate then? 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : You think it would be 7 accurate or not be accurate? 8 MS. NOEL: Oh no. It wouldn't be 9 accurate. 10 MR. : It wouldn't be accurate? 11 You do not believe that you actually conducted 12 those searches? 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : Okay. And since you had 15 the keys, no one could have visited the SHU 16 without you knowing. Correct? 17 MS. NOEL: Correct. 18 MR. : And the individual on 10 19 South - - or anyone else. Are they able 20 to access the SHU without someone in the SHU 21 allowing them in? Can they get out of 10 South 22 and enter the SHU by themselves? Or does 23 someone from the SHU like you and Thomas need 24 to authorize them entry? 25 MS. NOEL: He needs to call like I have to EFTA00118101 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 call control to pop that door. 2 MR. : So he has to call 3 control? 4 MS. NOEL: Because there's a door that 5 lets you into 10. You have to call control. 6 MR. : And then is it like the 7 entrance? Is there also a second door that you 8 have to use a key for? 9 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 10 MR. : So there's also two into 11 10 South? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : And that second door is 14 that the one that -? 15 MS. NOEL: don't have the key for. 16 MR. : So he would also have a 17 key? Or is it just 18 MS. NOEL: No I don't have the key for 19 upstairs. 20 MR. : Alright. So he needs to 21 open his own? 22 MS. NOEL: Right. 23 MR. : And then control pops it 24 25 MS. NOEL: Pops it. EFTA00118102 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 345 1 MR. : -- to then allow him into 2 the SHU? 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : So he could theoretically 5 get into the SHU without your knowledge? 6 MS. NOEL: No. I have to call control to 7 pop me into the SHU. 8 MR. : Yeah-yeah. I'm saying 9 ' ability to get into the SHU where you 10 and Thomas were. 11 MS. NOEL: Be he can't do that because he 12 can't leave unless -. Because remember Thomas 13 has to go up to relive him. So Thomas is 14 getting the door popped. But he can't just 15 come out and get the door popped because he 16 would leave the unit with nobody up there. 17 MR. : Right. What I'm saying 18 is like could he? Does he have the ability to? 19 Not policy dictates that he can't do it. I'm 20 saying would he be able to if he wanted to? 21 Take policy out of the way. 22 MS. NOEL: Call for them to pop the door? 23 MR. : Right. So like point 24 being, could have he accessed the SHU 25 theoretically without you and Thomas' EFTA00118103 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 346 1 knowledge? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. Because he could go and 3 pop the door. 4 MR. : Right. But he would have 5 had to call control in order to do so. 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : Alright. And does 8 anything allow control to know if that door was 9 never locked or closed or anything behind him? 10 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 11 MR. : You're not sure? Would 12 an alarm sound if a door wasn't closed or 13 anything? 14 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 15 MR. : You're not sure. Who was 16 the last person to see Epstein alive prior to 17 August 10, 2019 at 6:33 a.m.? 18 MS. NOEL: The last person to see him 19 alive? I would guess me. Because I got -. 20 MR. : You were? 21 MS. NOEL: Because I counted at 10:00 - or 22 after 10:00. 23 MR. : And on that occasion, you 24 didn't actually enter his cell you said? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00118104 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 347 1 MR. : Who was that last person 2 to have physical contact with Epstein? 3 MS. NOEL: Thomas. 4 MR. : Thomas would have? And 5 when would have that been? 6 MS. NOEL: When he was feeding. 7 MR. : No-no-no. 8 MS. NOEL: You mean like a time? 9 MR. : Thomas had physical 10 contact with Epstein during his shift on August 11 10th prior to 6:30? 12 MS. NOEL: Oh no. Not prior to the 6:30 13 a.m. I'm talking about at the 6:30. 14 MR. : Right. So you're the 15 last person to see him. 16 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : Who was the last person 18 to have physical contact with him? 19 MS. NOEL: Oh! Whoever put him in the 20 cell. When I went to the bathroom. 21 MR. : Okay. So you're not 22 sure? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Alright. When you saw 25 him, please explain in detail like -? Or EFTA00118105 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 348 1 guess you already did. You said when you saw 2 him he just put his hand up. 3 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 4 MR. : And then he - you said he 5 also asked for -. 6 MS. NOEL: CPAP machine to be plugged in. 7 MR. : And that is something 8 that he has every night? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : Yep? Did he seem - did 11 anything seem unusual with him? 12 MS. NOEL: No. See there's exceptions 13 being made for Epstein because it's Epstein. 14 You're not supposed to have -. A CPAP machine 15 has a long cord. So other inmates don't have a 16 CPAP machine in the SHU. Like you're not 17 supposed to have that. Who authorized it, who 18 gave it to him, I don't know. 19 MR. : Okay. And that's kind of 20 what I was asking earlier - and this was much 21 earlier - about like where like did Epstein was 22 he treated differently than others? 23 MS. NOEL: I mean -. 24 MR. : Were there other 25 instances that you can think of like people EFTA00118106 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 349 1 said pay him special attention because he's 2 different from eh other inmates? 3 MS. NOEL: No. Just the CPAP machine and 4 one time he wanted two mattresses. 5 MR. : He wanted two mattresses? 6 MS. NOEL: Yes. 7 MR. : Was he provided two 8 mattresses? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : So he just had the one 11 mattress? 12 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 13 MR. : So the only thing you can 14 think of is that? 15 MS. NOEL: Is that. 16 MR. : Is it like C-P-A-C? 17 MS. NOEL: What the CPAP? C-P-A-P. 18 MR. : CPAP. 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MR. : Is it the one with like a 22 mask that's attached to your face? 23 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 24 MR. : And there's actually like 25 a cord that goes with that? EFTA00118107 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 350 1 MS. NOEL: Yeah. The cord has to be 2 plugged in. 3 MR. : Now do you consider that 4 like a safety issue or anything like that? 5 MS. NOEL: But see that's the thing. 6 don't authorize those things. 7 MR. : Sure. 8 MS. NOEL: That's why I said when a person 9 You see how the question was asked when 10 somebody comes back from suicide watch. Like 11 is there like something like special being 12 said. Like no because he's cleared. Because 13 if there was then why would he be allowed to 14 have that in his room? So once you're cleared 15 and you come back, you're back. 16 MR. : Okay. Were there any 17 other issues with any inmates on August 10th 18 from 12:00 a.m. to 6:33 a.m.? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : No? So there was no 21 disturbances? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : Were there any inmates 24 complaining about the lights being left on or 25 anything like that? Do you recall? EFTA00118108 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Not that I know of. 2 MR. : No? And do you recall if 3 any other inmates were on - came from suicide 4 watch? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : So you don't remember any 7 other inmates being handled differently than 8 others? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : No? Or like special 11 instructions with regard to this inmate or that 12 inmate. 13 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 14 MR. : And you don't remember 15 inmates complaining about the lights you said. 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : How do the lights work? 18 Do they stay on in the range all times - uh 19 24/7? 20 MS. NOEL: The 21 MR. : In each tier? 22 MS. NOEL: I don't know. But the light is 23 in the hallway for the room. 24 MR. : So for an interior room. 25 What about the down the hallway to each for EFTA00118109 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 each tier? 2 MS. NOEL: Oh yeah. It stays on. 3 MR. : Were they on 24/7? 4 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 5 MR. : Do they ever turn those 6 lights off? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : No? Okay. Now we're 9 going to get into a little into more of the 10 specific stuff. Was there a medical emergency 11 in the SHU in the morning of August 10, 2019? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Why was the medial 14 emergency called? 15 MS. NOEL: Because when I opened the grill 16 and Thomas went to go feed, he knocked on the 17 door. He got no response. And he opened the 18 door. And then he started saying get the 19 cutter. And I heard -. I was on the grill. 20 heard when he ripped something and he started 21 CPR. 22 MR. : Okay. When was the 23 medical emergency called? 24 MS. NOEL: At that time. 25 MR. : How soon after um Thomas EFTA00118110 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 353 1 entering -- 2 MS. NOEL: When he opened the door, he 3 yelled get the cutter. 4 MR. : -- the cell? 5 MS. NOEL: I had the audio on. 6 MR. : Was he already in the 7 cell at that time? Or had he not yet gone in? 8 MS. NOEL: He was in the cell. 9 MR. : So he walked into the 10 cell and he yelled out? Did he come back out 11 of the cell and yell to you? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : He yelled from within? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : Could you see him at that 16 time? 17 MS. NOEL: Could I see him? No. 18 MR. : No? And from eh time 19 that he was discovered to the time of your 20 call, about how much time passed from him 21 saying - entering the cell - and the time that 22 the medical emergency was called by you. 23 MS. NOEL: A - 24 MR. : Are we talking about like 25 five seconds -- EFTA00118111 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 2 MR. : -- one minute or -? 3 MS. NOEL: A second. As soon as he said 4 it I did it. 5 MR. : Oh so like there's just 6 button that you hit? 7 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 8 MR. : So you 9 MS. NOEL: Because the button is on my 10 radio. 11 MR. : And did you call it in at 12 that time? 13 MS. NOEL: No once you hit it, everybody's 14 coming. 15 MR. : Alright. So there's 16 nothing that you call in. You just push a 17 button. 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : Alright. So at the 20 second he told you get the cutter, you hit the 21 medical emergency? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Did he say anything about 24 what he saw? 25 MS. NOEL: When he got - when he entered EFTA00118112 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 355 1 the room, and he said get the cutter, before I 2 got the cutter, I heard him tear something. 3 And then when he lowered him to the floor, 4 that's when I saw him and he started CPR. 5 MR. : Alright. So he never 6 said like Epstein hung himself or what he saw. 7 He just said get the cutter. 8 MS. NOEL: He said get the cutter. And 9 then he started CPR. And he kept saying, 10 "Breathe, Epstein, breathe!" And he was like, 11 "We're going to be in so much trouble." 12 MR. : And where were you when 13 he was doing that? 14 MS. NOEL: On the grill. 15 MR. : Were you in a position to 16 be able to see anything in there? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : At any time did you see 19 anything in there? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Did you ever see Epstein 22 in the cell? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : So you never even went 25 over to like look in? EFTA00118113 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Okay. So you didn't 3 actually have to call anything over the radio. 4 It was just a simple push of a button. 5 MS. NOEL: A button. 6 MR. : And around what time did 7 you say Epstein was last fed? 8 MS. NOEL: After 10:00. 9 MR. : After 10:00 p.m.? 10 MS. NOEL: I mean - not after 10:00. When 11 they fed him in the cell around - I guess after 12 8:00 or 9:00. 13 MR. : Sometime between 8:00 and 14 9:00 p.m.? 15 MS. NOEL: When I came back from the 16 bathroom. 17 MR. : And who was it that fed 18 him? 19 MS. NOEL: Me. 20 MR. : You fed him. 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : And did you say at that 23 point did you actually talk with him? 24 MS. NOEL: No. 25 MR. : Okay. And did you or EFTA00118114 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 357 1 anyone else recover his food tray? 2 MS. NOEL: I don't know if somebody did. 3 Not me. 4 MR. : Okay. But you didn't do 5 it? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : Who else could have done 8 it if it wasn't you? 9 MS. NOEL: I don't know because after the 10 medical emergency, nobody's allowed to go in 11 the room. So. 12 MR. : So you're just not sure 13 if by the time you fed him, in that medical 14 emergency, if it was ever recovered? 15 MS. NOEL: Right. 16 MR. : Okay. Alright. So when 17 you fed him - can you just again refresh my 18 memory - what is it that you saw with Epstein 19 when you gave him the food? 20 MS. NOEL: He gets like microwaveable 21 food. So I just handed it to him. Through the 22 slot. And he took it. 23 MR. : Okay. And any instances 24 where you saw him from the shower to the last 25 time you said you saw him between 10:00 and EFTA00118115 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 358 1 10:30 or whatever that was. Anything unusual? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : Nothing that caught - 4 raised suspicion? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : No like distress or 7 anything like that with him? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : And you're sure when you 10 saw him at 10:00 - 10:30 he was alive? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. (Indiscernible *04:17:41) 12 MR. : I'm sorry what? 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. He put his hand up. 14 MR. : He put his hand up. 15 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 16 MR. : And he wasn't like 17 hanging against the bed when he put it up? 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : Where was he located? 20 MS. NOEL: on the floor. On a mattress. 21 MR. : So he was like sleeping? 22 MS. NOEL: He was laying on the floor on 23 the mattress and he had the machine. 24 MR. : And he had the machine on 25 him? EFTA00118116 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 359 1 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : When you looked through his 4 window. 5 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : Right. What of his body 7 could you see? 8 MS. NOEL: Um his head, his hand, and like 9 maybe to mid-there. 10 MR. : The best of the body was -? 11 MS. NOEL: Like under his head. Mm-hmm. 12 MR. : So he was laying facing the 13 wall? 14 MS. NOEL: Yeah. He was facing like this 15 big (Indiscernible *04:18:24) is this way. The 16 mattress was here on the floor. Like in front 17 of the bunk on the floor. 18 MR. : And the CPAP machine was it 19 already attached to him? 20 MS. NOEL: Yeah. He had it on. 21 MR. : I'm not following what 22 you're saying about that. So the mattress was 23 laying like -. 24 MS. NOEL: The mattress was like how you 25 just take it off the bunk and you put it on the EFTA00118117 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 360 1 floor. 2 MR. : Yep. 3 MS. NOEL: Well he shoves it to the 4 corner. 5 MR. : And he was laying on - 6 was he laying on it like the direction of the 7 mattress lines? 8 MS. NOEL: That the mattress is going. 9 Yeah. 10 MR. : Alright. So he wasn't 11 like L or a T shape -- 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : -- with the -. 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : Alright. So he was like 16 17 MS. NOEL: Direction of the mattress. 18 MR. : Okay. You want to ask 19 more on that? 20 MR. : No. Just had that quick. 21 MR. : And you said to your 22 knowledge, no one else saw him between the time 23 you last saw him and when Michael discovered 24 him. 25 MS. NOEL: Right. EFTA00118118 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 361 1 MR. : Did you hear anything 2 from Epstein's cell between 10:30 p.m. and 6:33 3 a.m.? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : No like movement, 6 talking, or a crash? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Anything like that? And 9 about how far were you from Epstein's cell when 10 Thomas went in? 11 MS. NOEL: I don't know. The grill is 12 right here and the door is right here. 13 MR. : So I mean is it like - so 14 this is a foot, this is two feet, this three 15 feet. 16 MS. NOEL: A foot. 17 MR. : A foot? 18 MS. NOEL: From the grill to the door 19 right here. But he's inside. So. 20 MR. : Right. 21 MS. NOEL: I'm not in there. So from the 22 grill to the actual door about a foot. 23 MR. : Only about a foot? 24 MS. NOEL: Yes. 25 MR. : Now was the grill door - EFTA00118119 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 362 1 is that a door that is closed? Was it closed 2 or was it open? 3 MS. NOEL: I opened it. And then Thomas 4 goes in. 5 MR. : Okay. So was it open 6 when Thomas entered Epstein's cell? 7 MS. NOEL: I opened it. I opened the 8 grill for him to go in. 9 MR. : Right. And did it remain 10 open? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes but I'm -. 12 MR. : Or did you close it 13 behind you? 14 MS. NOEL: No. I'm standing there so it's 15 open. 16 MR. : So you're only a foot 17 away from Epstein's cell door though? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : And you never looked in? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Was it because - why 22 didn't you look in? 23 MS. NOEL: Because usually the door is not 24 open. His intentions is to feed. So he would 25 just open the slot and put the food in. When EFTA00118120 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 363 1 he knocked, he didn't get no answer. So that's 2 when Thomas opened the door and went in. I 3 stood on the grill. And as soon as he opened 4 the door and he went in, he started screaming, 5 "Get the cutter!" So I hit the body alarm 6 because I have to - when everybody's coming, I 7 have to let them in. I never went in. 8 MR. : Okay. So after he made 9 the call, did you go get the cutter and bring 10 it back to him? 11 MS. NOEL: No. I didn't get the cutter 12 because he didn't need it. 13 MR. : Because he ripped 14 something? 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : And you actually heard it 17 rip? 18 MS. NOEL: I heard the rip. 19 MR. : Okay. And the reason why 20 - and then you left the grill to go let people 21 in? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Alright. So how long 24 after Mike Thomas went into the room did you 25 leave the grill station door that was a foot EFTA00118121 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 364 1 away from Epstein's door? 2 MS. NOEL: Maybe like two three minutes. 3 MR. : So you were there for two 4 or three minutes while he was conducting CPR? 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : And at that time, never 7 once did you actually look in to see what he 8 was doing? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Even though it was just a 11 foot away? 12 MS. NOEL: Right. 13 MR. : And that's what I'm 14 asking you. 15 MS. NOEL: No by that time, when he's 16 conducting CPR, I can see because he lowered 17 him to the floor and I could -. 18 MR. : And that's what I'm 19 asking. So you could see him lower him to the 20 floor? 21 MS. NOEL: Yeah. I could see when he 22 lowered him to the floor. 23 MR. : This is where I want to 24 make sure that we're -. I'm asking you what 25 could you see inside? EFTA00118122 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 365 1 MS. NOEL: Oh no. I can't see inside the 2 cell. I could only just see Thomas doing CPR. 3 MR. : But you saw him lower him 4 to the floor? 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. He lowered him to the 6 floor and I -. 7 MR. : So this is what I want to 8 know. What did you see? So what you could see 9 from where you were standing? What could you 10 see? Everything. Because I'm getting confused 11 with what you're telling me. I thought you 12 said you never looked in. You never saw 13 anything. What did you see? From the moment 14 the medical emergency occurred. So he walked 15 to the door -. 16 MS. NOEL: When he -- 17 MR. : -- what do you see? 18 MS. NOEL: -- goes in the door first, I 19 don't see anything. I hear the rip and then he 20 lowers him to the floor -- 21 MR. : Okay. So just back up -. 22 What do you mean by lowering him to the floor? 23 Did you watch him rip or just heard? 24 MS. NOEL: I heard the rip. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00118123 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 366 1 MS. NOEL: I only see -. It's just like 2 this. He's holding him like this. And he puts 3 him to the floor to start CPR. 4 MR. : Did he put his arms 5 underneath Epstein's arms? 6 MS. NOEL: I don't remember how he held 7 him directly. But he just lowered him to the 8 floor. I don't remember how he - the details 9 of how he lowered him to the floor. 10 MR. : So he - somewhere on his 11 upper body then lowered him to his like butt to 12 the floor? 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : And then he then allowed 15 him to drop? Or did he place him -? 16 MS. NOEL: No. He didn't allow him to 17 drop. He had him all the way. 18 MR. : So at all times he 19 maintained control of Epstein's body and brough 20 him to the floor? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : And you witnessed all of 23 this? 24 MS. NOEL: I just only witnessed when the 25 top part of his body went to the floor. EFTA00118124 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 367 1 MR. : Okay. And at any time 2 did like - and we have to ask this just because 3 of you know, the autopsy and things like that. 4 Did his head smash against the floor? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : Alright. So everything 7 was like a gentle like -- 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : -- fluid movement? 10 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 11 MR. : From you heard it rip. 12 Did you ever hear like [sound]? Hear him like 13 land on the floor? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : So you didn't hear like 16 alright, he ripped this thing. So you think he 17 ripped it and then maintained control of him? 18 MS. NOEL: Probably. I didn't see that 19 part. I just only heard the rip. 20 MR. : Alright. But you did see 21 Did you see his body after the rip hit the 22 floor? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Alright. So he's on the 25 floor. Maybe like his butt's on the floor and EFTA00118125 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 368 1 his upper body is up. And that's when you 2 witnessed him now bringing him down to the 3 floor? 4 MS. NOEL: He brought him down to the 5 floor. I can't see that other half of his 6 body. So I don't know. Just -. 7 MR. : What part of his body do 8 you see? 9 MS. NOEL: Just the top part like torso up 10 and he's bringing him down. 11 MR. : Alright. And then did 12 you see him -? When you say CPR, what kind of 13 CPR was he giving him? 14 MS. NOEL: Chest compression. 15 MR. : Any kind of mouth-to- 16 mouth of breath? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Did he ever check for his 19 vitals? Did he ever check to see if he was 20 alive first? 21 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 22 MR. : You don't know. Did you 23 witness him check for breath or check for a 24 pulse? 25 MS. NOEL: I didn't see that. EFTA00118126 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 369 1 MR. : You didn't see either? 2 MS. NOEL: No. I just seen him giving 3 compressions. 4 MR. : Alright. Did you see him 5 like try to wake him up or hit him or anything 6 like that? 7 MS. NOEL: No. Just compressions. 8 MR. : Did you have any 9 communication with Thomas while he was doing 10 this? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : What were you saying 13 about we're going to be in so trouble. When 14 was that -? 15 MS. NOEL: Thomas said that. 16 MR. : That's what I'm asking. 17 Did you have a conversation - did you have any 18 communication with Thomas -? 19 MS. NOEL: Oh no. No. 20 MR. : Well you did have that 21 right? 22 MS. NOEL: No he said we're going to be in 23 so much trouble. I didn't say anything. 24 MR. : Okay. So what statements 25 did he make to you? EFTA00118127 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 370 1 MS. NOEL: Get the cutter. And then 2 heard the rip. He lowered him to the floor. 3 He was doing CPR. He said, "breathe Epstein 4 breathe" and he said we're going to be in so 5 much trouble. But I never said anything. 6 MR. : You didn't respond to 7 "we're going to be in so much trouble"? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : Do you know why he said 10 you're going to be in so much trouble? 11 MS. NOEL: Because we didn't the count. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. : I think it's important though 14 that you convey to him like - that you didn't 15 understand the magnitude of what had just taken 16 place. Right? Because that's something that 17 you had expressed. So like not knowing what a 18 cutter was. And maybe that gives insight into 19 why there wasn't a more in-depth conversation. 20 I think it's important that -. 21 MS. NOEL: Yeah. When he said to get the 22 cutter, like I would have to go try to look for 23 where a cutter was. But he didn't need it 24 because I heard the rip. And then when he said 25 we was going to be in so much trouble, like I EFTA00118128 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 371 1 still wasn't thinking like the trouble that 2 we're in now. I was just probably thinking 3 because I know we didn't do the count. But I 4 never responded because all the inmates by this 5 time are on the door. 6 MR. : Because they're all 7 watching? 8 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 9 MR. : This all take place? 10 MR. : I've got a question. 11 MR. : Yeah. Go ahead. 12 MR. : You said you opened the 13 MS. NOEL: The grill. 14 MR. -- the grill. Did he have 15 keys to open Epstein's cell? 16 MS. NOEL: Who Thomas? 17 MR. : Thomas. 18 MS. NOEL: Yeah. He as the door keys. So 19 there's two separate set of keys? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : So he - that's the keys that 22 stayed with him the whole time? 23 MS. NOEL: Yes. 24 MR. : But those door keys -. So on 25 the keychain that you have. What does that EFTA00118129 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 open? 2 MS. NOEL: The grills. 3 MR. : That's it? 4 MS. NOEL: There's other keys. The grill, 5 the front door, that middle door, but not the 6 inside cell door key. 7 MR. : That's with Thomas? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Now when you look inside the 10 cell, you said you could see only Epstein's 11 upper body. Where was he hanging? 12 MS. NOEL: I don't know. I didn't see 13 that part. 14 MR. : And when you heard the thud, 15 or you know, the rip and then the body landing. 16 Did you look inside to see what he was doing? 17 MS. NOEL: When he - when the body -. 18 Because when he lowered the body, he stepped 19 back like to come like it's almost like he was 20 backing up because you're bringing him down. 21 So that's how come I was able to just see that 22 part. But I didn't like to go look in the 23 cell. I was still on the grill. 24 MR. : So that's what I was trying 25 to understand. Where exactly was he hanging? EFTA00118130 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 373 1 MS. NOEL: I don't know that because I 2 don't know where he took him down from. I just 3 only heard the rip and then when he was walking 4 the body like down. 5 MR. : So he was - basically his 6 arms were behind Epstein? 7 MS. NOEL: Right. And he was bringing 8 him -. 9 MR. : And he was pulling him up? 10 MS. NOEL: -- bringing him down. 11 MR. : Was there a mattress on the 12 floor? 13 MS. NOEL: Well I'm assuming because the 14 mattress was on the floor earlier. But I don't 15 know. 16 MR. : So from where you were 17 standing, you couldn't see the actual mattress? 18 MS. NOEL: Mattress? No. 19 MR. : SO he wasn't doing CPR 20 like on top of the mattress? 21 MS. NOEL: No. Not that I can remember. 22 MR. : Do you remember what 23 Epstein was wearing? From what you could see 24 from his -? 25 MS. NOEL: He didn't have a shirt on. EFTA00118131 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 374 1 MR. : So not even like a ripped 2 shirt? Nothing was on? 3 MS. NOEL: He didn't have a shirt on. 4 MR. : Okay. At that time when 5 you saw him, did you see anything around his 6 neck? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : And when you say no, are 9 you saying there was nothing around his neck? 10 MS. NOEL: No. There was nothing around 11 his neck. 12 MR. : So there was nothing 13 around his neck? Okay. What did he look like? 14 MS. NOEL: Blue. 15 MR. : He looked blue? Did he 16 look like bloated or puffy or anything? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Did he look like he was 19 deceased? 20 MS. NOEL: His face looked blue. But. 21 MR. : Any reason for you to 22 believe that he was alive? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : No? Did you see any kind 25 of breath or anything? EFTA00118132 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 375 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : No? What did his cell 3 look like from what you could see? 4 MS. NOEL: I wasn't really looking at his 5 cell. By that point I was just looking at 6 Thomas doing CPR. I didn't look in there to 7 see what was going on. 8 MR. : Okay. So you didn't 9 notice anything like unusual in his cell? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : When Thomas went to his 12 door, did you notice if he actually had to use 13 his key to open it? Or was it - do you know if 14 it was actually already -? 15 MS. NOEL: He used a key to open it. 16 MR. : So are you confident that 17 that door was locked? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. Because he knocked. And 19 then he used the key to open it. He knocked. 20 He knocked. He didn't get a response. And 21 then he used the key to open. 22 MR. : Was there any indication 23 that any of the other inmates could have gotten 24 out of their cells? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00118133 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 376 1 MR. : And you said you don't 2 know if Thomas actually checked to see if he 3 was alive? 4 MS. NOEL: Yeah. I don't know. 5 MR. : You just know he went 6 straight into compressions. And did you say 7 you were two or three minutes that you stood 8 there? How long were you actually at the 9 when they walked into the door? 10 MS. NOEL: When I went to go get them to 11 come in the door? Between the time - 12 MR. : So you let -. Thomas 13 goes in. He goes into the room. He's making 14 these - you know you're watching him do some 15 compressions. He makes the statement, "we're 16 going to be in so much trouble." How long are 17 you standing there while you're observing this? 18 MS. NOEL: About one to two minutes. 19 Because I'm waiting for - the radio is going to 20 tell me when everybody's -. Because remember, 21 once I hit that button, everybody's coming. So 22 the radio is going to tell me when everybody's 23 at - when they're at the door. And then when I 24 pop the door and let them in. So I go to the 25 door. EFTA00118134 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 377 1 MR. : And you never entered 2 Epstein's cell? 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : Who was the second person 5 to enter Epstein's cell? 6 MS. NOEL: That I don't remember because 7 everybody came right at the time I don't 8 remember. 9 MR. : Okay. So you don't 10 remember the first person on the scene? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Did you assist at all 13 with the medical emergency? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : No? So what actions did 16 you take after people arrived? What did you 17 do? 18 MS. NOEL: Nothing. They told me to get 19 out the way. 20 MR. : So did you like leave the 21 tier? 22 MS. NOEL: I was on the bottom of the 23 stairs. Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Like observing? 25 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. Yes. EFTA00118135 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 378 1 MR. : Okay. What did you 2 observe from the bottom of the stairs? When 3 people arrived? 4 MS. NOEL: They got a stretcher. And they 5 put him on the stretcher. And brought him out. 6 MR. : Did anyone take over for 7 the CPR efforts that Thomas was doing? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't remember. 9 MR. : You don't remember seeing 10 this? So this isn't something that's vivid in 11 your memory? You know like this whole big 12 occurrence. You're not almost like you're 13 playing it in slow motion? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : The details of it? 16 MS. NOEL: No because when Thomas was 17 doing CPR. Then when they came, they took the 18 stretcher and put him on the stretcher and 19 left. As far as when they're -. Remember it's 20 a lot of people. So I'm not really seeing like 21 who's two steps - they're coming out with him. 22 MR. : About how many people 23 responded? 24 MS. NOEL: Mm. I don't know. Maybe 10, 25 15. EFTA00118136 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 379 1 MR. : And they didn't know what 2 they were responding to? They just knew it was 3 a medical emergency. It wasn't announced that 4 it was Epstein. 5 MS. NOEL: No. There ain't nobody that 6 (Indiscernible *04:31:48). 7 MR. : And is that typical for 8 10 to 15 people to respond? To a medical 9 emergency? 10 MS. NOEL: It - there's no number. It's 11 when - whoever is in the building and the body 12 alarm goes off once you're not in a post - 13 because when you're on a post you can't leave 14 your post. But everybody else in the building 15 responds. 16 MR. : And they just leave 17 wherever they were? To respond? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : I've got a question. 21 MR. : Go ahead. 22 MR. : When a body alarm is hit, who 23 gets notified? 24 MS. NOEL: Control. 25 MR. : And how do they differentiate EFTA00118137 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 380 1 between an inmate altercation versus a medical 2 emergency? 3 MS. NOEL: I mean the person that's 4 hitting the body alarm can say it. But there's 5 no differentiation. So either way the response 6 is the same. 7 MR. : So you could have said 8 it. You just didn't say anything. 9 MS. NOEL: Like when I hit the button, I 10 could have said a medical emergency on the 11 radio. Yeah, I could have said that. 12 MR. : But you didn't. 13 MS. NOEL: No because it's the same 14 response. 15 MR. : Right. 16 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : Has anybody ever hit it 18 accidentally? 19 MS. NOEL: Yes. And same thing. 20 MR. : And people just rush? 21 MS. NOEL: Everybody comes. Yes. 22 MR. : Okay. Alright. You said 23 you stood there for a little while on the 24 bottom of the steps. You observed some people 25 going in. You don't know who took over CPR. EFTA00118138 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 381 1 You just saw -- 2 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 3 MR. : -- who put up. Do you 4 remember who put him on a stretcher? 5 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 6 MR. : Did you see the body like 7 fall or anything going on the stretcher? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : Did he ever fall off of 10 the stretcher? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Did anyone drop the 13 stretcher? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : When they were moving 16 him, did you see him like get knocked or 17 anything like that? 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : No? Anything then - did 20 you notice anything that could have caused 21 additional injuries to his body aside from what 22 the hanging would have caused? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : No? What did Thomas do 25 after people responded? EFTA00118139 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 382 1 MS. NOEL: After they took him out on the 2 stretcher, he left. 3 MR. : So not after the 4 stretcher. Once at least one person showed up. 5 Do you know what Thomas did? 6 MS. NOEL: No because I'm at the bottom of 7 the stairs. So I don't know. Because they're 8 - remember they're on the top. I'm at the 9 bottom. So I don't know. 10 MR. : So could you even see in 11 at all at that point? 12 MS. NOEL: No. I could only see when they 13 coming down with him on the stretcher. Because 14 I'm at the bottom. I can't see up there now. 15 MR. : Okay. So after you were 16 standing there when you let people in, you 17 really couldn't see in the door anymore? 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : Okay. What happened 20 after they came out with the stretcher? 21 MS. NOEL: They left out of SHU with him. 22 MR. : Did you go with them? 23 MS. NOEL: No. I had to stay. 24 MR. : You stayed in SHU? Did 25 anyone stay with you? EFTA00118140 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 383 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : So you were there alone? 3 MS. NOEL: Alone. 4 MR. : And what did you do at 5 that time? 6 MS. NOEL: I kept calling control. Like 7 what's going on? And they was like somebody's 8 going to come like to help you. Because 9 remember we were supposed to feed. 10 MR. : Who was it -? How long 11 were you in the SHU by yourself after they 12 left? 13 MS. NOEL: Um... Maybe like 20 - 15 or 20 14 minutes. 15 MR. : So just -. Do you 16 remember if -? Now I want to say these names 17 to make sure that they were actually there. Do 18 you remember if the first person to arrive in 19 the SHU was Lieutenant ? Does that 20 help spark a recollection of who arrived first 21 since you were the one that let them in? 22 MS. NOEL: When the medical -. I don't 23 know who arrived first. But he was in there. 24 MR. : Because you're the one 25 that had to let them in. Right? EFTA00118141 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 384 1 MS. NOEL: Yeah. But I don't remember who 2 came in first. But he was there. When 3 was there, I remember 4 MR. 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : Do you know how to spell 7 that last name? 8 MS. NOEL: 9 MR. : Okay. And did you say 10 anything to the people that arrived? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : You didn't say like it's 13 Epstein or Epstein hung himself or anything? 14 MS. NOEL: No. The only thing they asked 15 Because when they come on, they want to 16 know where the emergency is. So I just pointed 17 up the stairs. 18 MR. : Okay. Did you make any 19 statements to anybody about saying we didn't do 20 rounds at 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m.? 21 MS. NOEL: No. After Lieutenant 22 asked me what happened. When I was getting 23 ready to answer him, Thomas came off the 24 elevator and was like, "Oh it's not her fault. 25 We fucked up." EFTA00118142 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 385 1 MR. : So at first did you say, 2 "We didn't do rounds at 3:00 a.m. -- 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : -- and then he responded 5 it's not your fault we didn't do the rounds we 6 messed up? 7 MS. NOEL: No. I didn't say that. 8 MR. : So that's not your 9 recollection that you saying we didn't do the 10 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. rounds? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Okay. So they're saying 13 that you said that. Do you think that they're 14 mistaking? That you told them that? 15 MS. NOEL: I don't recall saying that. 16 MR. : Okay. So you don't 17 recall. But is it possible that you could have 18 said that? 19 MS. NOEL: Probably but I don't recall 20 saying that. I remember Lieutenant asked 21 me what happened. And I was getting ready to 22 tell him what happened. And Thomas came off 23 the elevator and said that. But I don't recall 24 saying that. 25 MR. : And this is after Thomas EFTA00118143 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 came back from bringing Epstein down? 2 MS. NOEL: Well he went down with them. 3 Yes. 4 MR. : And then he came back? 5 So when you say by the elevator where was the 6 elevator? 7 MS. NOEL: In the hallway. 8 MR. : Outside the SHU? In the 9 SHU? 10 MS. NOEL: Like right the door the first 11 door. 12 MR. : The first door of what? 13 MS. NOEL: The SHU. 14 MR. : So is that outside of the 15 SHU? 16 MS. NOEL: Like right outside the door. 17 The SHU door. 18 MR. : Outside of the second 19 outer door? 20 MS. NOEL: Yes. 21 MR. : So right outside of the 22 outer door? This is where you had a 23 conversation with who? 24 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 25 MR. : Who else was present? EFTA00118144 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 387 1 MS. NOEL: Nobody else. Just me, him, and 2 Thomas. 3 MR. : Okay. And he asked you 4 what happened? 5 MS. NOEL: He asked me what happened. And 6 the elevator door opened. And Thomas came off 7 the elevator. I was getting ready to answer 8 him. And Thomas said, "It's not her fault. We 9 fucked up." 10 MR. : And do you know why he 11 made that statement? 12 MS. NOEL: I think because we didn't do 13 the counts. Or he -. 14 MR. : But why did he say it 15 wasn't your fault? 16 MS. NOEL: Because I kept waking him up. 17 So maybe that's why he said that. 18 MR. : Was he trying to take 19 more of the responsibility? 20 MS. NOEL: I guess so. 21 MR. : Would that be? Um. 22 Alright. Is it true that if the count is not 23 done and the round sheet which is filled out 24 after 30 minutes also cannot be completed? 25 MS. NOEL: If the -? EFTA00118145 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 388 1 MR. : From 12:00 a.m. to 6:33 2 a.m. That's not actually my question. From 3 12:30 to 6:30 a.m., none of the rounds or 4 counts were completed. Correct? 5 MS. NOEL: Correct. 6 MR. : Alright. Is it true that 7 end of the shift the supervising lieutenant 8 signs and sends the completed log of the inmate 9 movements from the day? Do you know if that's 10 true? 11 MS. NOEL: I don't know what they sign, 12 but they sign something. I don't know what it 13 is. 14 MR. : Do they sign like for 15 instance the round sheets? Do the lieutenants 16 sign that? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. They sign that. 18 MR. : But they don't sign the 19 count slips do they? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Just the round sheets? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. And what is your 24 belief or understanding of how Epstein died? 25 MS. NOEL: Mm. He hung himself. EFTA00118146 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 389 1 MR. : So you believe he was 2 dead upon Thomas entering into the cell? 3 MS. NOEL: I don't know. Because I just 4 assumed he hung himself. Because I read the 5 (Indiscernible *04:38:24). 6 MR. : So do you believe Epstein 7 took his own life? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : Did someone else take 10 Epstein's life? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Did anyone assist Epstein 13 with taking his life? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : Did Thomas take Epstein's 16 life? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Did Thomas assist Epstein 19 with taking his life? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Did you assist Epstein 22 with taking his life? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : Did you take Epstein's 25 life? EFTA00118147 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 390 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Did you have any part in 3 Epstein's death? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : Prior to Epstein dying, 6 did you have any communications - verbal, 7 electronic, handwritten, or otherwise - with 8 anyone - BOP staff members or otherwise, about 9 the safety and wellbeing of Epstein? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Alright. Do you need me 12 to -? That was pretty long. Did you catch 13 everything I just asked you there? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : This is going to be 16 another long one. Prior to Epstein dying, did 17 you have any communications - verbal, 18 electronic, handwritten, or otherwise - with 19 anyone - BOP staff members or otherwise And 20 when I say otherwise I mean like civilians, 21 inmates, you know anybody on the streets. 22 MS. NOEL: Okay. 23 MR. : About the death of 24 Epstein or taking Epstein's life? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00118148 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 391 1 MR. : Did anyone ever offer you 2 anything such as something of value or favors 3 with regard to harming Epstein or taking his 4 life? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : Did anyone ever threaten 7 you in exchange for harming Epstein or taking 8 Epstein's life? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Do you know anyone else 11 that those questions would have applied to? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : Do you know of anyone 14 else being offered anything to hurt Epstein or 15 taking his life? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : No? Why wasn't Epstein 18 in his assigned cell on August 10, 2019? 19 MS. NOEL: That was his cell. 20 MR. : It wasn't. This is the 21 first you're hearing of that? 22 MS. NOEL: Yes. 23 MR. : So he wasn't in his 24 assigned cell. 25 MS. NOEL: What? I never knew that. EFTA00118149 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 392 1 MR. : Did you - but it kind of 2 doesn't surprise me because you said that you 3 didn't even know who was in what cell. You 4 just looked to see if people -. So Epstein is 5 assigned to the cell across the hall. He 6 wasn't in the cell that he was actually 7 assigned to. Do you -? 8 MS. NOEL: Wait. You said across the 9 hall? So like not in SHU? 10 MR. : The same tier. But you 11 know -- 12 MS. NOEL: Oh. 13 MR. : -- they do inmate cell 14 rotations? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : So you do not know that 17 inmates are moved from different cells? 18 MS. NOEL: Yeah. I know that. They move 19 you said if I know how they do that? I don't 20 know that. 21 MR. : Do you know how often? 22 MS. NOEL: Often they do that? I'm not 23 sure. 24 MR. : Are you responsible for 25 reviewing - as your assignment, duties, and EFTA00118150 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 393 1 responsibilities within the SHU - of verifying 2 that the inmates are in the cells that they're 3 assigned to? 4 MS. NOEL: I don't know if I'm responsible 5 for but there is -. Their ID cards are on the 6 door. 7 MR. : Was Epstein's ID card on 8 his door? 9 MS. NOEL: No. Not all of them. 10 MR. : Okay. Was there anything 11 else on the door? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : Was there anything on the 14 door that said something about him being 15 required to have a cellmate? 16 MS. NOEL: No. 17 MR. : So you don't know 18 anything about him not being in his assigned 19 cell? 20 MS. NOEL: I never knew that. 21 MR. : Okay. So this is the 22 first you're even hearing about it even since 23 the incident? 24 MS. NOEL: Right. 25 MR. : So you -? EFTA00118151 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 394 1 MS. NOEL: So you said he was assigned to 2 the cell across from him? Because that had 3 people in it. 4 MR. : He was - yeah. Because 5 of cell rotations. It doesn't mean that -- 6 MS. NOEL: Oh, okay. 7 MR. : I think as far as you 8 were concerned, he was in that cell. You 9 didn't move him to a different one. But 10 administratively, he was in a different cell 11 and was moved and the assignment didn't follow 12 him. 13 MS. NOEL: Oh, okay. 14 MR. : So on paper, he was 15 supposed to be in one cell. In reality he was 16 in another. 17 MS. NOEL: Okay. 18 MR. : So if you look in the 19 system and find out hey where was Epstein 20 supposed to be? He was supposed to be over 21 here from the paperwork in the book. 22 MS. NOEL: Oh, okay. 23 MR. : He was physically located 24 over here. 25 MS. NOEL: Okay. EFTA00118152 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 395 1 MR. : Did you ever have any 2 dealings with that? 3 MS. NOEL: I never even knew that. 4 MR. : so is this the one he was 5 s actually in? 6 MR. : Yeah. 7 MR. : So he was in cell 220. 8 He was assigned to cell 206. 9 MS. NOEL: Mm. 10 MR. : But that's not something 11 you dealt with? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : Did you ever deal with 14 rotating the inmates into different cells? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : Do you know who deals 17 with that? 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : Do you ever see them get 20 rotated? 21 MS. NOEL: On the 8:00 to 4:00. 22 MR. : While - yeah. That's 23 what I'm asking. I'm not saying just for 24 Epstein. I'm saying like in general, have you 25 ever witnessed inmates being rotated to EFTA00118153 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 different cells? 2 MS. NOEL: One time. 3 MR. : One time? And how was 4 that - how does that play out? 5 MS. NOEL: I think - the day when 6 I saw it, was doing it. Like I don't 7 know. They told them to pack up. They pack up 8 they stuff, two people move them, and they go 9 to the cell that they supposed to go. 10 MR. : And then do you know what 11 they're supposed to do at that point with - in 12 order to make sure the paperwork follows them - 13 14 MS. NOEL: Oh. I don't know -- 15 MR. : -- to that cell? 16 MS. NOEL: -- about the paperwork. 17 MR. : Do you know who is 18 responsible for that? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Would it be the 21 lieutenant in your opinion? Or you just don't 22 know. 23 MS. NOEL: I just don't know. 24 MR. : Okay. And is that 25 anything you've ever dealt with as far as like EFTA00118154 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 397 1 training or that you recall? 2 MS. NOEL: The cell rotation? No. 3 MR. : Do you know if it's 4 supposed to be every certain amount of days? 5 MS. NOEL: I know it's supposed to be 6 every certain amount of days, but I don't know. 7 MR. : Do you remember Epstein 8 ever being assigned to cell 206? 9 MS. NOEL: I don't know where cell 206 is. 10 That's the one across from where he was at? 11 MR. : They're both on L Tier, 12 so I'm just assuming. 13 MS. NOEL: Oh. 14 MR. : Because there's the 15 paperwork that shows that's not even the 16 number. 17 MS. NOEL: Yeah. The number is not on 18 here. I don't know what cell is 206. But -. 19 MR. : So when you're in the SHU 20 in July and August when he was - when Epstein 21 was assigned to the SHU. Do you recall him 22 ever being in a different cell than the cell 23 you found him in - or Thomas round him in on 24 August 10th? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. He was downstairs. EFTA00118155 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 398 1 MR. : Downstairs? 2 MS. NOEL: On I think M tier with 3 Tartaglione. Because that was his cellmate 4 first. 5 MR. : Alright. So what about 6 on L Tier? You ever remember him being in a 7 different cell up there? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : No? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Alright. So. So the 12 Tartaglione incident happened on July the 23rd. 13 He comes back on July 30th. From your 14 recollection from eh time that he came back and 15 he was with Reyes, he was always in that same 16 cell? 17 MS. NOEL: And in that (Indiscernible 18 *04:44:20) cell? Yes. 19 MR. : Alright. So maybe he 20 wasn't rotated but on paper it was rotated? 21 MS. NOEL: Maybe. 22 MR. : But you don't know 23 anything about it? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't know anything. No. 25 MR. : Okay. Do you know what EFTA00118156 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 399 1 BOP database tracks that? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : Why were there pill 4 bottles found on the top bunk of Epstein's 5 cell? 6 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 7 MR. : Do you know anything 8 about like medication or what was found in 9 there? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Do you have any idea what 12 was even -? Did you ever go in Epstein's cell 13 prior to this incident? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : Do you know if Epstein 16 was authorized to have pills in his cell on the 17 SHU? 18 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 19 MR. : Do you know if that's 20 like abnormal or are inmates allowed to have 21 medications in the SHU? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : They're not allowed to? 24 MS. NOEL: They're not allowed. 25 MR. : Even if it's prescription EFTA00118157 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 400 1 medication? 2 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 3 MR. : Do you ever provide 4 inmates prescription medication when you're 5 working in the SHU? 6 MS. NOEL: No. The nurse does. 7 MR. : The nurse comes around? 8 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 9 MR. : So is that surprising to 10 hear that there were medication in his cell? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : And you knew nothing 13 about that being in there? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : Is it SHU policy for 16 things like medication - is it different than 17 the other housing units? 18 MS. NOEL: Yes because I think on housing 19 units they can have prescription medication in 20 their cell. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. NOEL: But in SHU they can't. 23 MR. : And do you know that to 24 be a fact? Or is that just your belief? 25 MS. NOEL: I don't know it to be fact. EFTA00118158 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 401 1 MR. : Okay. Do you know if any 2 other inmates in the SHU are allowed to have 3 medications in their cell? 4 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 5 MR. : How many changes of 6 clothing and linens are inmates allowed to have 7 in the SHU? 8 MS. NOEL: I think one. 9 MR. : It's supposed to be 10 one-for-one exchange? 11 MS. NOEL: Yes. 12 MR. : for both linens and 13 clothing? 14 MS. NOEL: For linen. I'm not sure with 15 clothing. 16 MR. : Okay. Why did Epstein 17 have extra clothing and extra linens in his 18 cell -- 19 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 20 MR. : -- on August 10th? 21 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 22 MR. : You don't know. But you 23 said that was something that you did though? 24 As far as your duties? Is to be able to 25 provide people with linens and clothes? EFTA00118159 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 402 1 MS. NOEL: I never gave out linen. Ever. 2 Because that's done on the shift prior. 3 MR. : What shift is that? 4 MS. NOEL: 8:00 to 4:00. 5 MR. : And did you ever work the 6 8:00 to 4:00 shift? 7 MS. NOEL: Yes. But I worked the 8:00 to 8 4:00. When I come in to do overtime before. 9 But it's not always in SHU. 10 MR. : Okay. So have you ever 11 worked 8:00 to 4:00 in the SHU? 12 MS. NOEL: I think I have. 13 MR. : And do you remember doing 14 giving - doing the linens? 15 MS. NOEL: I never gave linen. 16 MR. : You never gave linens. 17 MS. NOEL: Never. 18 MR. : What about the clothing? 19 MS. NOEL: None. Never. 20 MR. : When is that done? 21 MS. NOEL: I give toilet paper. Say that 22 again? 23 MR. : When is the clothing 24 done? 25 MS. NOEL: I don't know. EFTA00118160 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 403 1 MR. : No? And did you ever 2 provide Epstein with additional clothing or 3 linens? 4 MS. NOEL: Never. 5 MR. : Do you know of anyone 6 that has? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : You never witnessed 9 anyone provide him anything extra? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Do you know if providing 12 inmates with extra clothing and linens is a 13 security risk? 14 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 15 MR. : No? If you saw that an 16 inmate had extra clothing or linens, would you 17 do anything about it? 18 MS. NOEL: I mean I'd ask. 19 MR. : Who would you ask? 20 MS. NOEL: The officer I'm working with. 21 MR. : And did you ever have to 22 do that? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : So you never witnessed 25 anybody? EFTA00118161 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 404 1 MS. NOEL: Because I never saw it. No. 2 MR. : Okay. And when you're 3 looking in doing your counts and your rounds, 4 are you looking for things like that? Of like 5 -? 6 MS. NOEL: Not really. 7 MR. : You're just looking for 8 the person? You're not looking to see what's 9 going on in their cell? 10 MS. NOEL: Correct. Sometimes they don't 11 even let you see their cell. They're like 12 standing in the window blocking the window. 13 MR. : But it's your 14 understanding though it's supposed to be a one- 15 for-one exchange? 16 MS. NOEL: Yes. 17 MR. : Do you know what material 18 was used to take Epstein's life in August of 19 2019? 20 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 21 MR. : Do you know if Epstein 22 was given any special privileges to have extra 23 clothing? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 25 MR. : If he was, do you know EFTA00118162 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 405 1 who would provide that? 2 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 3 MR. : Do you know if there was 4 anything else that was in Epstein's cell that 5 should not have been here? 6 MS. NOEL: Only the CPAP machine. 7 MR. : Okay. Tell me about cell 8 searches. What are the requirements for when 9 you said your typical shift is I guess the 10 afternoon shift? Right? Or do you call it 11 evening shift I guess? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Is that the 4:00 to 14 10:00? 15 MS. NOEL: 4:00 to midnight. 16 MR. : 4:00 to midnight. Sorry. 17 What are the cell search requirements during 18 that shift? 19 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 20 MR. : Did you ever read the 21 post orders with regard to that? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : But they're in the SHU? 24 You just didn't read them? 25 MS. NOEL: Right. EFTA00118163 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 406 1 MR. : Do you want to - have 2 any? We're almost there. Well while I'm going 3 thought the questions can you just find that? 4 MR. : Yeah. 5 MR. : Have you ever heard that 6 during your shift you're supposed to conduct 7 five cell searches? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : Random cell searches? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : Did you ever witness 12 anybody conducting cell searches when you 13 MS. NOEL: No. 14 MR. : -- were working the SHU? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : No. Do you know if any 17 cell searches were conducted on August 9th or 18 August 10th? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Do you know what a cell 21 search is? 22 MS. NOEL: When you go in there and search 23 their cell. 24 MR. : Right. Of an inmate. 25 And you never observed that in the SHU? EFTA00118164 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 407 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Did they ever teach you 3 that during training that you're supposed to do 4 that? 5 MS. NOEL: Mm. I don't recall. 6 MR. : You don't recall? It's 7 just something that you never-ever witnessed? 8 MS. NOEL: Never. Never saw it. 9 MR. : Even when you were 10 working that like earlier shift? You know when 11 you're doing your OT or your regular shift? 12 Never once witnessed a cell search. 13 MS. NOEL: Never. 14 MR. : And do you know - of 15 things that you do know in there, would any of 16 that be considered contraband? That was in 17 there? Now that you know that medication was 18 in there. The CPAP machine. Or the extra 19 linens. Or the extra clothing. 20 MS. NOEL: In his cell? 21 MR. : Mm-hmm. 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : Do you want to show her 24 some of these pictures just so she can get a - 25 know what we're talking about here? So is this EFTA00118165 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 408 1 L Tier as we're referring to? And is the outer 2 gate that you were standing at that you were 3 talking about? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Alright. And then when 6 you say you're staying at the lower part of the 7 steps, is it about right there that you were 8 standing? 9 MS. NOEL: I was standing over here. 10 MR. : Over there? Do you have 11 a pen? Do you just mind marking it? So that's 12 where you were standing? Alright. And in that 13 picture, can you see where Epstein was? 14 MS. NOEL: From down here? 15 MR. : No-no-no. I'm sorry. Is 16 his -? I'm assuming -. 17 MS. NOEL: Oh! No-no-no. Because he's on 18 this side. 19 MR. : Right. So we can see 20 part of the two when it's crossed. But does 21 this look like Epstein's door? 22 MS. NOEL: This is the first door on the 23 right. Yeah. 24 MR. : And from what you can see 25 from where you were standing, did that look EFTA00118166 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 409 1 like what you saw? 2 MS. NOEL: I didn't see all of this. I 3 saw like here. Because I'm on the door. So 4 he's doing CPR like here. So I didn't see all 5 that. 6 MR. : Alright. So you couldn't 7 see all that extra clothing and linens right 8 there? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Does that look like a lot 11 of clothing and linen to you? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Here's a couple extra 14 pictures of some different like advantage 15 point. Does that all look like extra clothing 16 to you? 17 MS. NOEL: Yes. And there's the machine 18 right here. 19 MR. : That's the CPAC machine: 20 CPAP? 21 MS. NOEL: Yes. 22 MR. : Okay. Again though, you 23 don't know what he actually hung himself with? 24 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 25 MR. : Is this the way that he EFTA00118167 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 410 1 would usually lay on his bed? 2 MS. NOEL: Yes. 3 MR. : Was he the top bunk guy 4 then? And do you know where Reyes would 5 usually sleep? 6 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 7 MR. : Is it only like -? 8 MS. NOEL: Because he's always on the 9 floor. 10 MR. : Okay. But I see that the 11 top one doesn't actually have it. It doesn't 12 look like it has a -- 13 MS. NOEL: Right. A mattress. 14 MR. : -- mattress. So do you 15 know if Reyes would sleep like right next to 16 him? 17 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 18 MR. : You don't? Did you ever 19 check in on them when you were - or that was 20 the first night you said you -? 21 MS. NOEL: That was it. 22 MR. : So did you ever observe 23 him in a sleep state before? 24 MS. NOEL: Because he's never really 25 there. Epstein EFTA00118168 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Yeah-yeah-yeah. I'm 2 saying during sleeping hours. Did you ever see 3 Epstein prior to this instance? Prior to 4 August 9th have you ever seen Epstein sleeping 5 in his cell? 6 MS. NOEL: When he comes back he lays 7 there on the floor. On the mattress on the 8 floor. 9 MR. : SO when you would observe 10 that, would you see where Reyes was? Prior to 11 this incident? 12 MS. NOEL: Oh Reyes be up. So I never 13 seen like where Reyes is. Like Reyes is always 14 up. 15 MR. : Is there only one bunk in 16 that room? 17 MS. NOEL: It was these two. 18 MR. : Yeah. So the one 19 bunkbed? 20 MS. NOEL: Yeah. One. 21 MR. : So if I'm assuming if 22 he's sleeping on the floor then Reyes would be 23 sleeping next to him. 24 MS. NOEL: There. But I don't know if 25 this was because Reyes wasn't there. Or he EFTA00118169 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 412 1 could have been on top. I don't know. 2 MR. : Okay. So if this is 3 where Thomas took him off of, is that what you 4 couldn't see that from the door form that 5 vantage point? 6 MS. NOEL: Yeah. I can't see that 7 MR. : You couldn't see that. 8 Okay. So did you ever notice that type of 9 medication in there before? 10 MS. NOEL: No. 11 MR. : And that's something you 12 believe that shouldn't have been in there 13 though? 14 MS. NOEL: Yes. 15 MR. : Does anything here look 16 out of the ordinary to you? With what -? 17 MS. NOEL: What's in the (Indiscernible 18 *04:54:17) right here? 19 MR. : I don't know. I'm asking 20 you. Does any of that look out of the ordinary 21 to you? 22 MS. NOEL: Yeah. There's couple. 23 Whatever's in the bag. 24 MR. : Okay. But you never went 25 in there. You never saw any of this? EFTA00118170 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 413 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : And cell searches were 3 never conducted. So no one even went in to 4 ever check to see what was in these cells. 5 MS. NOEL: Correct. 6 MR. : Here's three additional 7 pictures if you want to look. Does any of this 8 stuff look abnormal to you? 9 MS. NOEL: All these. 10 MR. : Everything? Looks 11 abnormal? 12 MS. NOEL: The medication. 13 MR. : the medication? And it 14 was never discussed with anyone about cell 15 searches? Ever. In the three - you know two 16 and a half months that you were in there? 17 MS. NOEL: That (Indiscernible *04:55:35) 18 in there. 19 MR. : Okay. And did you ever 20 get to see what it was that Epstein used to 21 hang himself? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : No. Alright. Rather 24 than have you do all those individual, I'm 25 going to just separate this. If it's okay with EFTA00118171 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 414 1 your attorneys. Just have her do the top one. 2 Unless you prefer to -. 3 MR. FOY: No. That's fine. Initial that 4 one. 5 MR. : Here. Keep these away 6 from that. just keep everything next to 7 her anyway. 8 MR. : And the -. 9 MR. : That's fine. 10 (Indiscernible *04:56:07) she didn't know about 11 it anyway. How were Epstein's interactions 12 with other inmates? 13 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 14 MR. : Did you ever see him 15 interact with other inmates? 16 MS. NOEL: He's never there. No. 17 MR. : Did you ever see him 18 interact with his cellmates? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : No. You said -. But the 21 last time you interacted with him was just that 22 one raising of the hand. 23 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 24 MR. : Was it surprising you to 25 notice that there was no celimate in there with EFTA00118172 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 415 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 him? MS. NOEL: No. MR. : So did it even cross your mind that there was always a cellmate with him prior to that time? MS. NOEL: No. MR. : Did you ever -? Were you ever told that Reyes was removed from the institution? MS. NOEL: No. MR. : And is that something - being that's the high-profile nature that he is that like -? Is that something that you would notice though? That like hey this guy usually has a cellmate. He's not in there right now. Where is he? MS. NOEL: No. MR. MS. NOEL: MR. : Did even cross -? Cross my mind? No. : Didn't cross your mind. You're just looking at the people in there and you're not worried about who is in there. The people in there are alive. That's all you're worried about? MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00118173 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 416 1 MR. : Did Epstein ever complain 2 about anything? 3 MS. NOEL: Not to me. 4 MR. : Do you know if he 5 complained about anything to anyone else? 6 MS. NOEL: Just the time when he asked for 7 the mattress. The extra mattress. 8 MR. : That was a request 9 though. 10 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 11 MR. : Was it a complaint? Did 12 he say anything along with asking for an extra 13 one? 14 MS. NOEL: Well how it was relayed that he 15 was complaining that he needed another 16 mattress. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. NOEL: I don't know if you want to 19 take that as a complaint. 20 MR. : Did you ever hear him 21 complaining about other inmates? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : No. Never complained 24 about being in the SHU versus somewhere else? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00118174 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 417 1 MR. : So no complaints other 2 than that mattress. 3 MS. NOEL: No. 4 MR. : Do you know if there were 5 any threats made to Epstein? 6 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 7 MR. : Do you know at the time 8 did you know why Epstein was in prison? 9 MS. NOEL: Well he -. 10 MR. : You said you did some 11 internet searches or you saw some things but 12 MS. NOEL: Right. After the fact. But 13 initially no. 14 MR. : Didn't you say there were 15 things that would populate on the computer? 16 MS. NOEL: Yeah. That's why I said after. 17 When he initially first came in there, no. i 18 didn't know. 19 MR. : I mean prior to August 20 9th or August 10th. 21 MS. NOEL: Oh. Yeah. 22 MR. : Yeah? 23 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : And did you have any 25 specific feelings with regard to why he was in EFTA00118175 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 418 1 prison? 2 MS. NOEL: No. 3 MR. : Did you ever speak about 4 Epstein with other inmates? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : In your opinion when the 7 medical emergency was discovered, did you and 8 Thomas act appropriately, per BOP policy? Now 9 that you've had time to reflect on it. 10 MS. NOEL: Um I know now that when there's 11 a medical emergency, you're not supposed to 12 enter the cell until everybody gets there. So 13 that would be the only thing that I would say 14 like that wasn't done correctly. But as far as 15 everything else -. 16 MR. : Now was that per Thomas? 17 MS. NOEL: What I'm saying or -? 18 MR. : Yeah. So the one thing 19 that you know that was incorrect. What about 20 what you did? Was there anything that you did 21 that wasn't correct? 22 MS. NOEL: If it was I don't know. 23 MR. : No-no-no. I'm asking. 24 MS. NOEL: Oh now. 25 MR. : It's a genuine question. EFTA00118176 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 419 1 It's not a trick. 2 MS. NOEL: Hm-mm. 3 MR. : So you're not aware of 4 you doing anything? 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : Alright. But you know 7 that Thomas went into the cell before he was 8 supposed to. 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : He was supposed to 11 actually wait for someone to come and respond? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : And why is that? 14 MS. NOEL: Why did he go in? 15 MR. : No. Why does he need to 16 wait for them to respond? 17 MS. NOEL: Oh I don't know. That's the 18 rule. I guess. 19 MR. : Okay. And by you 20 standing outside at that gate, he still 21 wouldn't be allowed to go into the room? 22 MS. NOEL: Who me? 23 MR. : So even the way you did. 24 MS. NOEL: Oh because I was there. No. 25 From what I understand, you're supposed to wait EFTA00118177 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 until people come. And then go in. 2 MR. : Okay. And how did you 3 learn that? 4 MS. NOEL: After. That's what I heard 5 them saying. 6 MR. : That's what people were 7 telling you on August 10th? 8 MS. NOEL: Yes. 9 MR. : That you -. 10 MS. NOEL: Not telling me but just in 11 conversation. Like after. 12 MR. : What conversations did 13 you have with people after? 14 MS. NOEL: I didn't have no conversations. 15 I just heard them saying Thomas should have 16 never went in there by himself. I don't even 17 remember who said it. But somebody that was in 18 the SHU. 19 MR. : Did anybody say anything 20 about your reactions? 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : No. Do you know if he 23 needed to just wait for one person or a bunch 24 of people? How does that - what did you hear 25 with regard to that? 42 EFTA00118178 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 421 1 MS. NOEL: I didn't hear nothing else. 2 MR. : When I said you I mean 3 Thomas. 4 MS. NOEL: Oh. I don't know. 5 MR. : Do you believe that 6 Thomas acted appropriately? Being that you 7 were there and you observed it. 8 MS. NOEL: What the stuff that he did? 9 Yes. 10 MR. : Yeah. Do you think he 11 should have waited for someone or you think 12 it's like - there was a medical emergency and - 13 14 MS. NOEL: I think it was a medical 15 emergency and he was just trying to get to try 16 to help him. 17 MR. : Alright. And did you and 18 Thomas know that Epstein was the only person in 19 the cell then? Or did you not know if Reyes 20 was in there or not? 21 MS. NOEL: When I counted, I knew that ne 22 was in there by himself. 23 MR. : Okay. Just for 24 background, I believe the reason why you're 25 supposed to wait is in case it's a ruse and EFTA00118179 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 422 1 someone wants to trick you to get in and then 2 you - the other person overpowers him. And now 3 has a -. 4 MS. NOEL: Right. 5 MR. : So that's my point. Do 6 you know if Thomas was aware if anyone else was 7 in there? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 9 MR. : You don't know. Not 10 something you discussed with Thomas though? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Did any supervisors or 13 staff talk with you about the incident? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : Aside from that one when 16 Lieutenant 17 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant asked me. 18 MR. : Okay. So I just want to 19 - again, when I ask you these questions just 20 make sure we say like aside from this or that. 21 So any other things aside from that instance 22 where they asked you what happened. And you 23 said you don't recall saying we didn't do the 24 3:00 a.m. and 5:00 a.m. rounds. But you do 25 recall Thomas saying it wasn't her fault. EFTA00118180 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 1 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 2 MR. : We didn't do the rounds. 3 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 4 MR. : Any other questions other 5 than that? 6 MS. NOEL: Um they asked me to go 7 downstairs to the lieutenant's office. And 8 then I was just standing down there. 9 MR. : But no one spoke with 10 you? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : Did anyone even ask you 13 how you were? 14 MS. NOEL: Oh the psychologist asked me 15 how I was. 16 MR. : Okay. So but did she ask 17 you about the information -? 18 MS. NOEL: No. They didn't ask me 19 anything about that. 20 MR. : It was just about your 21 mental wellbeing? 22 MS. NOEL: Yeah. 23 MR. : And what time did you 24 stay at the institution until on August 10th? 25 MS. NOEL: I left like around after 8:00. EFTA00118181 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 424 1 MR. : A little bit after your 2 shift? 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : You didn't have to stick 5 around for anything else? 6 MS. NOEL: No. 7 MR. : Did you have to sign any 8 paperwork? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : You were left right 11 around the end of your shift. Did they tell 12 you to leave? 13 MS. NOEL: My shift was over. They said I 14 could go. 15 MR. : I just mean like did they 16 instruct you to go home. You just had a 17 traumatic experience. Or it's just your shift 18 was ended. And you left. 19 MS. NOEL: My shift was ended and I asked 20 can I go now. And they said go. 21 MR. : Okay. And who was that 22 who said go? 23 MS. NOEL: The lieutenant. 24 MR. : Do you remember which 25 lieutenant? EFTA00118182 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: 2 MR. not 3 MS. NOEL: Not 4 MR. : Okay. . But you 5 didn't have any other conversations with 6 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : Okay. Did you ever 9 handle or touch Epstein's paperwork? Epstein's 10 file or paperwork? Prior to your departure 11 from the MCC on August 10th? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : So in that time from - 14 you said you were there by yourself for 20 15 minutes. Did you ever go near his file? 16 MS. NOEL: I don't even know where his 17 file is. No. 18 MR. : Alright. Do you know if 19 they keep files on inmates? I think they're 20 called like - what is it a 292 or something 21 like that? 22 MR. : Yeah. 23 MS. NOEL: Eh no. 24 MR. : Do you know what's kept 25 in a 292? EFTA00118183 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Like when you feed an 3 inmate or when you give them -. 4 MS. NOEL: Oh that's like when you log 5 into and you're - okay. 6 MR. : Is there also paperwork 7 that follows that or is it just logging into 8 the BOP system? 9 MS. NOEL: That's logging in to the 10 system. 11 MR. : Okay. When you - during 12 the time that you were on your shift at all on 13 August 10th did you ever log into that system? 14 MS. NOEL: No. 15 MR. : So you never had to enter 16 than you fed him or you went into -? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : And you checked on him or 19 anything like that? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : When would that be done? 22 MS. NOEL: At the earlier part of the day 23 or when you feed. 24 MR. : So around what time? 25 MS. NOEL: After 4:00. EFTA00118184 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4/- 1 MR. : After 4:00 a.m.? 2 MS. NOEL: No 4:00 p.m. 3 MR. : 4:00 p.m. So when you 4 say the earlier part of the day, you mean the 5 later part of the day? 6 MS. NOEL: No like when the shift starts 7 at 4:00 after you feed. That's the time I see 8 them like log in to say okay they've been fed. 9 But I've never really -. One day, I actually 10 like was in there because was showing me 11 how to do it. But I don't necessarily do that. 12 Somebody else will do it. 13 MR. : And what was he showing 14 you how to do? 15 MS. NOEL: How to log it. 16 MR. : So what is it that you're 17 supposed to log? You know in the system? 18 MS. NOEL: I vaguely remember because i 19 don't did it - he only showed me that one time. 20 I think you're supposed to like log if they 21 showered, log if they were feeding, and I don't 22 know, if you gave out stuff. I guess. I don't 23 know. 24 MR. : But you don't - you're 25 not aware of an actual paper file? EFTA00118185 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42P 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Where those things are 3 monitored or tracked? 4 MS. NOEL: No. 5 MR. : And you never did that 6 for any inmates? 7 MS. NOEL: No. 8 MR. : You never filled out 9 paperwork or kept files for inmates? 10 MS. NOEL: No. Never. 11 MR. : So obviously you never 12 handled or touched Epstein's paperwork? 13 MS. NOEL: Never. 14 MR. : Or his file? Did you 15 ever remove any of Epstein's paperwork from his 16 file? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Did you ever remove or 19 destroy any of Epstein's paperwork? 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : Did you ever remove or 22 destroy - that's a repetitive question. Did 23 you ever remove or destroy any signs related to 24 Epstein to include signs that said he was 25 required to have a cellmate? EFTA00118186 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 429 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : Did you access any BOP 3 databases such as BOPWARE, SENTRY, TRUVIEW, 4 after Epstein was discovered on August -- 5 MS. NOEL: No. 6 MR. : -- 10, 2019? That was 7 no? 8 MS. NOEL: No. 9 MR. : Did you report - was that 10 the last time you reported to work? On August 11 10th? 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Were you placed on 14 administrative leave? 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : By whom? 17 MS. NOEL: Mm. I don't know. I got 18 phone call saying that I was placed on 19 administrative leave, but I don't remember by 20 who. And then I got the letter. 21 MR. : Did you ever receive an 22 explanation verbally? 23 MS. NOEL: No. 24 MR. : No? So the person told 25 you that you were on administrative leave -? EFTA00118187 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Yes. 2 MR. : That was the extent of 3 the conversation? 4 MS. NOEL: And then I said so when do I 5 come back? And they was like you'll get a call 6 like when or if you're supposed to come back. 7 MR. : Okay. And what did that 8 administrative leave change to a different type 9 of leave? 10 MS. NOEL: Suspended without pay. 11 MR. : Indefinite suspension? 12 Was that it? Is that what you're on right now? 13 MS. NOEL: Yes. 14 MR. : Okay. Did you 15 communicate with Michael Thomas after Epstein's 16 body was discovered? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : Did you communicate -? 19 MS. NOEL: We communicated never because 20 we was not allowed to communicate. Even - well 21 before -. 22 MR. : What about -? I'm 23 talking about right after the body was 24 discovered. People respond. And then did you 25 communicate? You talked about the one instance EFTA00118188 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 431 1 outside of the elevator. 2 MS. NOEL: Yeah-yeah-yeah. No. 3 MR. : But you guys didn't 4 actually converse? You were just both talking 5 to the lieutenant? 6 MS. NOEL: Right. 7 MR. : And at no point also did 8 you ever converse? 9 MS. NOEL: No. 10 MR. : Didn't you guys talk 11 somewhere else? 12 MS. NOEL: No. 13 MR. : Since then? Like outside 14 of work? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : You don't recall anytime? 17 So if he says that you guys talked it up, you 18 don't remember that? 19 MS. NOEL: We never spoke until we had a 20 union meeting. 21 MR. : That's what I'm asking. 22 Ever. 23 MR. : Oh never spoke until that 24 union meeting. That was just like two weeks 25 ago. But we never ever spoke. EFTA00118189 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : That's kind of like - 2 when I say EVER, that means ever. Any time 3 from then until this moment? 4 MS. NOEL: From then until the union 5 meeting, we never spoke. 6 MR. : Alright So what was 7 discussed at the union meeting? 8 MS. NOEL: That we're going to have an 9 investigation and the union is there for us. 10 They're supporting us. Stuff like that. 11 MR. : But did you discuss this 12 with Thomas? 13 MS. NOEL: What? 14 MR. : The investigation? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : Did you ever discuss like 17 what you were going to tell us? 18 MS. NOEL: No. 19 MR. : Or what you were going to 20 say during an interview? 21 MS. NOEL: No. 22 MR. : So what did your 23 communication entail? 24 MS. NOEL: With Thomas? It wasn't with 25 Thomas. But he was present. So basically the 4 EFTA00118190 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 433 1 union was saying you know they're fighting for 2 us. They're there for us. They're supporting 3 us. You know that was along the line. We're 4 going to have to meet with you guys to be 5 investigated. Just tell the truth. That was 6 along the line. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. NOEL: But my conversation wasn't 9 directly with Thomas. It was - we were both 10 being told. 11 MR. : So aside from the union 12 and with that interaction with Thomas, was 13 anybody else that you discussed the Epstein 14 incident with since August 10th? 15 MS. NOEL: No. 16 MR. : No. Aside from your 17 attorneys? 18 MS. NOEL: More or less. Mm-hmm. 19 MR. : Is there anything else 20 that you want to add to anything we've talked 21 about? Being and just keep in mind the - under 22 oath. What you just said. The union said just 23 tell the truth. The way that you get in 24 trouble from this point forward is basically if 25 you don't tell the truth. You know, anything EFTA00118191 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 434 1 that we need to clarify. Anything that you can 2 think about. Like maybe I should provide some 3 additional background information regarding 4 that. 5 MR. FOY: No. I don't of know anything. 6 MR. : Okay. So everything good 7 for - because I just want to pass it over to 8 see if there's anything that Agent wants 9 to ask. 10 MR. : You mentioned there was an 11 office in the SHU for the lieutenant. 12 MS. NOEL: Yes. 13 MR. : Where is that located? 14 MS. NOEL: Upstairs outside of the door 15 for 10 South. 16 MR. : Who normally sits there? 17 MS. NOEL: The lieutenant. 18 MR. : Who would that be? 19 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 20 MR. : Have you ever been in that 21 office? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : Do you know anyone else that 24 utilizes that office? 25 MS. NOEL: No. EFTA00118192 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 435 1 MR. : After the incident happened, 2 did you -? After Epstein was removed, did you 3 see any lieutenants at the MCC? 4 MS. NOEL: Did I see any lieutenants? 5 MR. : Yeah. Which lieutenants did 6 you see at the MCC? 7 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant , but who was 8 there? 9 MR. : Yeah whoever's present. Did 10 you actually see. 11 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant , Lieutenant 12 , Lieutenant was getting off 13 but she came like to help feed. 14 MR. : She came back to help feed? 15 MS. NOEL: Yes. 16 MR. : Did you have a conversation 17 with her? 18 MS. NOEL: Lieutenant 19 MR. : Yeah. 20 MS. NOEL: No. 21 MR. : How did you know she came 22 back to help feed? 23 MS. NOEL: I was there. 24 MR. : And where was she when -? 25 MS. NOEL: Where was she when? EFTA00118193 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 436 1 MR. : Yeah. When you were leaving. 2 Where was she? 3 MS. NOEL: In the SHU. 4 MR. : Okay. She was in the SHU 5 physically in the SHU? 6 MS. NOEL: Helping feed. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : What time are we talking 9 about? 10 MR. : This is after the incident. 11 MR. : Oh, okay. 12 MR. : This is just for 13 clarification purposes. 14 MS. NOEL: Okay. 15 MR. : I know you mentioned this 16 before, I'm just going to clarify it. A couple 17 of questions. Did you ever assist any inmates 18 with making phone calls? 19 MS. NOEL: No. 20 MR. : Do you know that if an inmate 21 wanted to make a phone call, how would they go 22 about it? 23 MS. NOEL: They use their PIN number. 24 MR. : Is every inmate assigned one? 25 MS. NOEL: Yes. EFTA00118194 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 437 1 MR. : Can they call anybody they 2 wanted to? 3 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 4 MR. : Is there a restriction on 5 certain people that they are allowed to call? 6 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 7 MR. : Okay. Did you know that 8 inmate calls are monitored? 9 MS. NOEL: Yes. 10 MR. : Do you know the difference 11 between a monitored line and the legal line? 12 MS. NOEL: Meaning.... 13 MR. : So there was one line that's 14 used to make legal phone calls that's just for 15 attorneys. 16 MS. NOEL: Okay. 17 MR. : So those - that line is not 18 monitored. 19 MS. NOEL: Oh. 20 MR. : But the other line is any 21 calls that they make is recorded. 22 MS. NOEL: Okay. But I don't know where 23 like which line is which. But I am aware that 24 there's the recorded line and the other line. 25 But I don't know which one is which. Or where EFTA00118195 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 438 1 the legal line is. 2 MR. : Okay. You said it was not 3 weird Epstein was left alone with the phone. 4 Has this happened before? 5 MS. NOEL: Where an inmate is in the tier 6 using the phone? Yeah. 7 MR. : Who - to your recollection - 8 which other inmates were allowed to make phone 9 calls like that? 10 MS. NOEL: I don't have a name, but it's 11 not because they're allowed to make a phone 12 call like that. It's only if where their cell 13 is located, the jack's not working. So it's 14 not like they put inmates in the shower to have 15 private phone calls. It's just that if where 16 your cell is that, the jack's not working, they 17 put you -. Because they can't put you with 18 another - in another inmate's room. And they 19 can't leave you out in the open. So they place 20 you over there because the jack is closest to 21 it to make the phone call. 22 MR. : So you know who could set up 23 a call like that? Can anyone - any CO just 24 plug it in? Or does it have to be a specific 25 person who plugs it in? EFTA00118196 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 439 1 MS. NOEL: That I don't know. If any CO 2 could just plug it in. I don't know. 3 MR. : You don't know. Would you 4 happen to know if Epstein had a PAC and PIN 5 assigned to him? 6 MS. NOEL: I would think he would. But I 7 don't know for sure. 8 MR. : Do you recall that night when 9 set up the phone call. Did he tell you 10 who Epstein was supposed to be speaking to? 11 MS. NOEL: No. 12 MR. : That's all I have. 13 MR. : And then the two final 14 follow-ups. Just because we discussed it and I 15 kind of gave it to you from memory. But this 16 is the special housing unit post orders 17 regarding cell rotations and cell searches. It 18 just quickly says, "All SHU staff are expected 19 to conduct searches of the special housing 20 unit. The morning watch officers will conduct 21 searches of the common areas and document their 22 findings in the search section of the True 23 Scrub Program. (Phonetic Sp. *05:14:00) The 24 day watch officers will conduct a search of 25 every inmate's cell who attends recreation. EFTA00118197 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 440 1 The evening watch officers will conduct a 2 minimum of five cell searches during their 3 shift." And that's what I was just trying to 4 get (Indiscernible *05:14:13). Just to make 5 sure and that's just to -. If you want to just 6 initial it and date. And also when I do need 7 to clarify when I said the getting in trouble 8 thing. I was talking about legally. When I 9 said about that being truthful. 10 MR. : So these things that you 11 initialed. Can you date them also? Because 12 this first set doesn't have a date on them. 13 MR. : What is that you want her 14 -? 15 MR. : There's no dates. Next to 16 her initials. On there. 17 MR. : Do you care if it has a 18 date? I don't want her to have to go through 19 everything again. She just wrote her initials. 20 MR. FOY: Yeah. It doesn't matter. 21 Especially if we're only meeting one time. 22 MR. : Okay. Sure. So just 23 next to where you wrote your initials, do you 24 mind just dating? I don't know if there's a 25 reason to provide this here. I would just -. EFTA00118198 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 441 1 You might not -. You don't have to provide it 2 to her. 3 MR. : Yeah. 4 MR. : Just read it after she's 5 done that. 6 MR. : Were you aware -? Maybe 7 subsequently that wrote a memo pretty 8 much stating that he was notified -. He was 9 notified 1:50 p.m. that inmate Reyes was not 10 coming back to MCC. And he actually notified 11 Officer SOS and Officer 12 that inmate needed - that a cellmate needed to 13 be assigned to Epstein. 14 MS. NOEL: I'm not aware of that. 15 MR. : Did you ever get instructions 16 like that? 17 MS. NOEL: No. 18 MR. : When you came on shift, were 19 there any instructions that came down about 20 going in and removing Inmate Reyes' belongings 21 from the cell? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : If an inmate was removed. 24 Let's say someone was going WAB. Do you know 25 what that is? EFTA00118199 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. NOEL: Um yeah. 2 MR. : With All Belongings. 3 MS. NOEL: Belongings. 4 MR. : If an inmate let's say had to 5 go to court and it was notified that the inmate 6 is not coming back and was being removed by 7 WAB. Does an officer in the SHU have to go in 8 and remove all the belongings? 9 MS. NOEL: Um I don't know. Because I 10 only know in the regular unit when they're 11 going WAB, they bring their stuff. 12 MR. : They don't bring their stuff? 13 MS. NOEL: No they do. 14 MR. : If they were. But what if 15 that person - let's say that inmate wasn't 16 notified that they're not coming back until -. 17 MS. NOEL: Oh if it wasn't. Then yeah. 18 The officer would have to go in and take it 19 out. 20 MR. : And there was no instructions 21 for you guys to go remove it? 22 MS. NOEL: No. 23 MR. : And I may have just 24 missed this, but you do not recall anyone 25 coming in and retrieving Reyes' belongings? EFTA00118200 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 443 1 MS. NOEL: No. 2 MR. : No? And would have that 3 happened during your shift? Before the 12:00? 4 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 5 MR. : If it was? 6 MR. : You just don't know 7 anything about Reyes leaving or -? 8 MS. NOEL: I don't know. 9 MR. : Anything? Okay. 10 MR. : Get all this signed we'll go 11 to initial documents. 12 MR. : Yeah. They're all - I 13 just gave them to her. Anything else before we 14 end this so that hopefully this will be a one- 15 and-done? 16 MR. : Nothing else. 17 MR. : Nothing else that we 18 should talk about that we missed? That we can 19 handle now rather than having to circle back? 20 MR. FOY: Uh nothing. I can't think off 21 of the top of my head. 22 MR. : We're trying to cover a 23 lot so. 24 MR. FOY: I am at the end. 25 MR. : Yep. From the union is EFTA00118201 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 444 1 there anything that you can think of that we 2 should be discussing? Or 0? 3 MS. : I mean I If OIG really 4 wants to know what led up to the death of Mr. 5 Epstein. I think that there needs to be a 6 thorough investigation of the Metropolitan 7 Correctional Center and it's pitfalls. I'll 8 just you know kind of leave it at that. And 9 I'm sure you're getting a little bit of insight 10 into what the MCC is. Not just staffing but 11 conditions for inmates as well. It failed a 12 new employee. Yes there are some things that 13 she absolutely should be taking responsibly 14 for. But what led up to the unfortunate death 15 of Mr. Epstein wasn't just August 9th and 16 August 10th. 17 MR. : Referring to the fact 18 that she was trained on people not conducing 19 rounds and counts? 20 MS. : It's a cultural issue at MCC 21 New York. Falsifying of documents to pass 22 program reviews. Inadequate training of 23 employees. Um an employee may go through an IF 24 training but most of that training is three 25 weeks or so. Most of the time, you'll find EFTA00118202 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 445 1 yourself sitting down in the training center I 2 believe because they don't have someone to 3 actually train you. But they'll tell you sign 4 the training sheets. So if something like this 5 comes up, it implies that the employee received 6 the training. When actually I was present to 7 receive the training but nobody taught me. The 8 same thing is you know for annual refresher 9 training. There's a cultural issue at the 10 Metropolitan Correctional Center. Is it 11 agency-wide? I don't know. I've only been at 12 MCC New York. But there are some pitfalls. 13 There have been inmates that's prior to Mr. 14 Epstein and since Mr. Epstein and I believe the 15 inadequate managing of the building plays a big 16 role in those deaths. Assaults of staff and 17 inmates. And you guys, I guarantee you've seen 18 it. I'm sure there's something you've seen 19 that you're like, wow that's a little bit crazy 20 what just seems very egregious it's because 21 it's not being run the correct way. It's 22 failing staff and inmates every day. 23 MR. : Well thank you for that. 24 On that note, I know we talked about you know 25 how you observed other staff members like EFTA00118203 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 446 1 pretty much not conducting the round sheets the 2 way they did it, as well as the supervisor that 3 told you to sign the training that you never 4 actually attended. Can you think of anything 5 else that you were asked to do like that from 6 anyone? Or observed anyone else? As like a 7 training or an experience that was - now that 8 you're thinking back on it - wrong? 9 MS. NOEL: Um.... I mean I haven't really 10 been there that long. So the only thing I 11 could recall was Lieutenant III was oh. I 12 think when I had my probationary year, like I'm 13 supposed to get reviewed like every quarter. 14 Like to get before I get off probation. I've 15 only got it one time. I think it's supposed to 16 be done three times. I've only got it one 17 time. 18 MR. : And were you asked to 19 sign on a quarterly basis that you received 20 that evaluation? 21 MS. NOEL: I know I signed it one time 22 that I got it. But I never got the other two. 23 So just basically just showing how -. 24 MR. : But they didn't actually 25 ask you to sign something? EFTA00118204 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 447 1 MS. NOEL: No. Ask me to sign for that. 2 No. 3 MR. : Is there any instances 4 you can think of that you like needed to sign 5 for something that you thought oh I shouldn't 6 sign for that. I didn't take this training. 7 didn't conduct these rounds. Is there anything 8 else like that that you can think of that's 9 happened while you were at the MCC? 10 MS. NOEL: I mean, like for example, like 11 she said in IF training, there's a roster with 12 a whole bunch of stuff that we're signing next 13 to. But like let's say, lieutenant so-and-so 14 is supposed to teach that class and they didn't 15 show up. But I already signed that I received 16 it. But I didn't get the actual training. So 17 I'm signing that I'm present and I'm here for 18 the training, but I didn't actually get it. 19 MR. : So you're showing up at 20 training 21 MS. NOEL: But I can't remember 22 MR. : -- and they're actually 23 not conducting it and they're certifying 24 they're -- 25 MS. NOEL: Right. Yeah. EFTA00118205 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : -- conducting the 2 training? 3 MS. NOEL: Yeah. There were a couple of 4 training that we didn't get because there was 5 nobody there to teach the class. 6 MR. : And they certified that 7 they actually - 8 MS. NOEL: Yeah. I remember when I was in 9 IF, they would tell me stuff. But I never 10 walked. You're supposed to get a tour of the 11 building for when you sit in training and in 12 the SHU blah-blah-blah - you have a visual. 13 They never even did that. Like they would 14 explain like when they say down range, you have 15 to just imagine what's down range because I 16 never been in that jail and I didn't know. 17 I'm saying that to say like the training is not 18 -. You guys probably look at oh I signed or 19 you're saying this training or that she should 20 know this. But I don't actually necessarily 21 have to know it because it wasn't like taught. 22 And if I kind of learn as you go along, that's 23 why I said like it's wrong, but I tried to 24 mimic or follow what I see. Other people do. 25 And yes I've exercised poor judgment on things, EFTA00118206 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 449 1 but even sometimes you ask people and they tell 2 you the wrong thing. That's MCC. So even if I 3 don't know and I call and I say hey how do you 4 do this? They'd be like oh just do this. 5 MR. : And what do you - now 6 that you've experienced this, what do you blame 7 that on? Do you also blame it on like poor 8 management or like a lack of manpower? What is 9 your thoughts on that? 10 MS. NOEL: It's both but every time 11 something happens, the officers get in trouble. 12 And the problem is it starts from the top. 13 Because if my supervisor is telling me to 14 falsify documents, and I do it, I'm in trouble. 15 But Lieutenant got promoted. You 16 understand? Like the problem starts from eh 17 top. And it comes all the way down. It's not 18 being managed correctly and the manpower is 19 also not there. Like you can't take somebody 20 and tell them to work 16 hours. And remember, 21 it's a thing where I'm on probation, so I can't 22 say, no I'm not working it. So you asked me to 23 work 16 hours every day. I'm a human being. 24 I'm not a robot. I fell asleep plenty of times 25 going home. I come to work. I remember one EFTA00118207 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 450 1 time I called the lieutenant's office. Like I 2 can't keep my eyes open because that's just the 3 reality of it. By the time you go home, it's 4 time for you to Some people don't even go 5 home. They try to sleep in the locker room 6 because the manpower is not there. And it's 7 absolutely ridiculous. For me, I started in 8 June of 2018. The indictment said 2016. 9 That's not true. To December. That's only 6 10 months. And I made my base pay because of all 11 that overtime. 12 MR. : Okay. Thank you. That's 13 all great insight. Anything else we want to 14 add? 15 MS. NOEL: Mm. Nothing else. 16 MR. FOY: The only thing I can think of, 17 which you've kind of alluded to, is what it 18 feels like as a new employee. The culture. 19 The friendliness or lack thereof. The fact 20 that in a way, your trust in your colleagues is 21 undermined through your colleagues. Right? 22 mean which makes it a difficult thing. I mean 23 if you want to talk about that part of it. 24 Right. Because it's all related. It's not 25 just one thing. So I mean if you want to speak EFTA00118208 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 451 1 on it, this would be the time to say it. 2 MS. NOEL: I don't know what -. 3 MR. FOY: Hm? 4 MS. NOEL: (Indiscernible *05:25:37) 5 MR. FOY: Your experience of was it a 6 friendly experience? Did you feel supported by 7 your colleagues? Like -. 8 MS. NOEL: Oh. No. 9 MR. FOY: Right? Did you like it there? 10 Did it feel safe? Like -. 11 MS. NOEL: Oh. No. Absolutely not. 12 Absolutely not. 13 MR. FOY: But you've got -. 14 MS. NOEL: I was actually trying to - like 15 from the moment I started there, I didn't like 16 it there and I was trying to get out of there. 17 But I'm not going to quit a job and go sit at 18 home. So. The atmosphere was - like to me, 19 didn't feel safe because if you don't have 20 enough people to work the units and something 21 happens and you hit a body alarm, who's 22 responding? If there's no nobody there. So 23 that's a problem in itself. There's been times 24 where you got one officer working two units. 25 So what if somebody died on the other unit and EFTA00118209 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 452 1 the officer is on the other unit? But there's 2 been - and that's all not supposed to happen. 3 But like I said, when nothing happens it's okay 4 because nobody died. Nothing happened. But 5 when something happens, then that officer 6 working the two units gets in trouble not the 7 lieutenant that said hey I'm assigning you to 8 work these two units. And yes, we know we're 9 not supposed to work the two units. But again, 10 I don't feel like I can override my lieutenant 11 or I can override the senior officer because 12 the instruction that's being passed on from the 13 top is not correct. But who am I going to 14 tell? Because everybody in that building knows 15 from the warden all the way down knows we don't 16 have enough people. We don't have enough. 17 From day one I entered that building, that's 18 all I've been hearing. We don't have enough 19 people. We don't have enough people. People 20 get hurt because there's not enough staff to 21 respond to certain. Like when I'm on a unit 22 and inmates are fighting -. Like if the 23 inmates really wanted to take over and harm 24 you, they could have. And then who's 25 responding fast enough because maybe you hit EFTA00118210 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 the body alarm sometimes only three people 2 come. 3 MR. : So with all this in mind, 4 is there anything that you can think of as a 5 way to rectify these issues? 6 MS. NOEL: They need staffing. And I 7 don't know if people don't stay there because 8 like the culture of MCC is just -. It needs to 9 start over. Like it needs to be cleaned out 10 and start over. And people need to follow the 11 rules and reinforce and show people the correct 12 things. Then maybe - maybe it could get 13 somewhere. But when you have new people coming 14 in and we're taught bad - and again, I'm not 15 blaming everything on me being taught bad. 16 It's what I see. What I know. And again, yes 17 I could sit and read an employee handbook. 18 Sometimes you ready stuff in the context of -. 19 Like I'm not in a camp. I'm in a high rise. 20 So the context of what you're reading in an 21 employee book refers to like you know those 22 types of institutions and not MCC. So 23 sometimes when you try to put it into 24 perspective -. 25 MR. : You keep on saying camp. EFTA00118211 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 454 1 Do you mean like an FCI or a penitentiary? Or 2 -? 3 MS. NOEL: Yes. 4 MR. : Or are you talking about? 5 MS. NOEL: Yes. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. NOEL: Yes. Versus a high-rise 8 building. So it's - the procedures are a 9 little bit different. So that's why I rely on 10 the people inside to teach me. And you'll 11 always hear this being said. There's the BOP 12 way and there's the MCC way because at MCC, 13 they do it their way. 14 MR. : Okay. Good to know. 15 MS. NOEL: There's been -. And again 16 because I don't know because they probably 17 don't give you the roster. Every single time 18 that I've came to work, I've called to switch 19 with somebody else because I don't want to work 20 SHU. Because I don't know how to work SHU. 21 And it's very annoying that you have to keep 22 having to ask somebody. There's plenty of 23 times that I called across like somebody 24 working 9 North, like hey you want to switch 25 with me? And I switch. Because on a regular EFTA00118212 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 455 1 housing unit, I know what I'm doing. In the 2 SHU, I don't know what I'm doing. And I was 3 even told usually they don't put probationary 4 staff to work SHU. But again, because of 5 seniority, that's all that's available. So 6 that's what I have to get. 7 MR. : Okay. Anything on that? 8 MR. : Do you recall any specific 9 instances of policy violations by staff or any 10 actions that you could bring into questions 11 about other staff members at MCC? Any specific 12 instances. 13 MS. NOEL: Um no. 14 MR. FOY: You're talking about like 15 contraband, stuff like that? 16 MR. : Anything. Overall. 17 MR. FOY: (Indiscernible *05:29:50) 18 MS. NOEL: I mean it comes in some -. 19 MR. : I think what he means 20 more along the lines though of like a 21 supervisor directing you to falsify a record. 22 Like that's pretty big. If they're telling you 23 sign this because you needed to take quarterly 24 SHU training. Anything else like that. 25 MS. NOEL: I mean one time I got a drop EFTA00118213 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 456 1 note that said an inmate wanted to rape me. 2 And I forward the email to the lieutenant and I 3 never got a call back. And I called and I said 4 -. Because that inmate is still on the unit. 5 So if the inmate really wanted to rape me, then 6 I guess he would have. So I called and I'm 7 like did you get my email? And she was like 8 yeah I got it, but that inmate ain't going to 9 do nothing to you. These are the type of 10 things that happen at MCC. How do you know 11 that inmate's not going to do anything to me? 12 What you should have did was remove me from 13 that unit or remove that inmate, but that 14 wasn't done. Inmates have threatened me. And 15 they're supposed to remove them out of the 16 building but they don't. Inmates have 17 threatened me and I have sent them to SHU. And 18 then they'll release them and then they came 19 right back to my unit. So again, it's like who 20 are you telling or complaining to at MCC? 21 Because from the top there's no help. And I'm 22 literally at the bottom. I was the last 23 officer at the time. 24 MR. : Now do you know of 25 (Indiscernible *05:31:04) corrupt officers like EFTA00118214 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 457 1 bringing in contraband? Is that like a problem 2 at the MCC? 3 MS. NOEL: It is a problem. But I don't 4 know who brings it in. I just always wonder 5 like how did -? As far as smoking. Like 6 there's smoking all in the building. I get 7 headaches daily because of the smoking. So it 8 comes in some way. But as far as who or how it 9 comes in, I don't know. 10 MR. : And I would think it's 11 kind of easy to identify who is smoking. 12 Correct? 13 MS. NOEL: Oh - the - you'll be sitting in 14 your officer's station, and you smell smoke. 15 But remember they're inmates. So by the time I 16 get out, they always have a watch person. So 17 by the time I feel like okay I smell it, it's 18 coming from here. Let me go walk the tier this 19 way, they'll be like, she coming. So they 20 already done -. 21 MR. : Now what are you 22 smelling? What kind of smoke? Is it marijuana 23 or is it -? 24 MS. NOEL: K2. 25 MR. : -- K2? EFTA00118215 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 4r 1 MS. NOEL: K2. 2 MR. : And you can - you know 3 the distinct smell of K2? 4 MS. NOEL: Yes. 5 MR. : Um. 6 MR. : Was this on the SHU also? 7 MS. NOEL: Yes. 8 MS. : It's the entire building and 9 you know, I would welcome, right, if OIG said 10 we want to tour the institution. 11 (Indiscernible *05:32:11) and judges do. 12 Attorneys do. Law clerks do. Right. Because 13 it gives you a little bit of - you can actually 14 put a visual besides seeing the photos. You 15 can get a visual. You actually get to see what 16 it is to be an employee there or even an inmate 17 there. And the drug problem is absolutely 18 rampant. The institution has no control over 19 it. Right. So it boils down to that employee 20 saying okay if you guys don't stop smoking, I'm 21 locking everybody behind a door because it's 22 making me sick. Or it's making me -. It's 23 that kind of thing. Like they're not holding 24 inmates responsible for incident reports. None 25 of that stuff is happening. And it just makes EFTA00118216 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 459 1 it a very bad place to work. And it makes it a 2 poor place for a new employee to work. Right? 3 And I say that wholeheartedly understanding 4 that there is some onus on Ms. Noel. There's 5 just some things as an adult you have to say, I 6 take responsibly for it. I don't think she's 7 ever come out of taking that responsibly. But 8 that MCC New York failed Ms. Noel, Mr. Thomas, 9 and Mr. Epstein regardless of what he was in 10 jail for, I don't believe anybody deserves loss 11 of life behind the walls of a jail especially 12 in that manner. Right? And there's just so 13 many things so when you ask questions to Ms. 14 Noel such as, "Are there any instances of 15 falsifying documents," you're not going to say 16 to me, but I guarantee you that in reviewing 17 rosters and training records, I'm sure you guys 18 have questionable discrepancies. I'm sure 19 you've caught rosters not reflecting what 20 videos show. I'm sure you've caught employees 21 on rosters - not on rosters but attending a 22 training, but the roster says they're on sick 23 leave or annual leave. I would bet my next low 24 paycheck that that's absolute to what you guys 25 have probably seen or experienced in EFTA00118217 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 460 1 investigating this whole thing. Is this 2 falling on deaf ears? I don't know. I would 3 like to hope that the death of an inmate leads 4 to some change. But we're two years out and -. 5 MR. : Sure. Well part of that 6 has to do with we had to wait to interview. 7 But yeah. 8 MS. : Yeah. 9 MR. : Do you have ...? 10 MR. : Yes. 11 MR. : It just made me think of 12 something. I just want to make sure just going 13 back like we were talking about to make sure 14 that we've got the like - as truthful a 15 statement as we possibly can with regard to the 16 August 9th 10:00 p.m. count. Talking about 17 video and things like that. When you remember 18 doing that count -- 19 MS. NOEL: Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : -- although the count 21 number was wrong, did you do the count from the 22 outside grill or did you actually walk down the 23 range? 24 MS. NOEL: No. I walked down the range. 25 MR. : And you're -? EFTA00118218 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 461 1 MS. NOEL: And I know like for example, 2 like in statement, he probably was 3 like, I don't know if she did the count. Or 4 I'm going to say she didn't do the count 5 because it needed to be done with me and I was 6 sleeping. He was sleeping, so he don't' know 7 if I did the count or not. 8 MR. : Yeah. I'm just trying to 9 reconcile the review of -- 10 MS. NOEL: He signed, but -. 11 MR. : -- of the video. 12 MS. NOEL: But no because I saw a lot of 13 stuff. Even in the indictment. There's a lot 14 of things in there that's not true. Like the 15 one thing I know I did do was that 10:00 count. 16 For a fact. 17 MR. : But you just don't know 18 how they reconcile the fact that -- 19 MS. NOEL: The numbers no. 20 MR. : -- the numbers are off. 21 MS. NOEL: But the count. I did do that. 22 MR. : Was that just - and 23 again, that's going to be one of those big 24 things that's like well how do we -? If you're 25 saying you did the count, and the numbers are EFTA00118219 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 462 1 wrong, that's the -. We're going to have to - 2 MS. NOEL: Yeah. Like I don't remember 3 MR. : -- review that video and 4 5 MS. NOEL: -- what happened between like 6 the 73 and the 72 and the phone call and what 7 was said again. But I did do that count. 8 MR. : And again, we're not 9 confusing a count with a round. 10 MS. NOEL: Rounds. No. 11 MR. : Okay. Anything else? 12 Well I just want to thank you all so very much 13 for the cooperation. And to the union, I want 14 to kind of apologize for the initial 15 interaction. 16 MS. : Mm-hmm. 17 MR. : I think that now talking 18 with you, I think that you're actually - I was 19 maybe misunderstanding maybe what you were 20 doing. I just wanted to make sure that we 21 weren't going to be stopping this interview 22 every time there was a question. But you were 23 extremely helpful. So thank you for your 24 participation. 25 MS. : No problem. EFTA00118220 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 463 1 MR. : And yeah. It is -. 2 MS. : I've got something. Can 3 just get a copy of the document that I signed? 4 MR. : Absolutely. 5 MS. : Or unless you just want me to 6 take a picture of it. Whatever's easier. 7 MR. : Um yeah. I'll get you a 8 copy. Either a photocopy or a picture. That's 9 fine. Okay. It is 4:20 p.m. on Tuesday, June 10 22, 2021. This is Senior Special Agent 11 and I am turning off the recorder. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00118221 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 464 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 represent an accurate transcript of the 4 electronic sound recording of the proceedings 5 before the Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General in the matter of: 7 8 Interview of TOVA NOEL 9 10 11 12 13 , Transcriber 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00118222