EFTA00125121.pdf

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 MARCH 16, 2022 21 22 23 24 25 26 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: (818) 431-5800 EFTA00125121 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 NONE 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 EFTA00125122 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : This is Special Agent 2 Today is March 16th, and the time is 3 9:55 a.m. The recorder is now on. My name is 4 I am a Special Agent with the 5 U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General, New York Field Office, and 7 these are my credentials. 8 MS. : Thank you, sir. 9 MR. : This interview with the 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, Lieutenant 11 , is being conducted as part of 12 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 13 of the Inspector General investigation. 14 Today's date is March 16th, 2022. The 15 time is 9:56 a.m. This interview is being 16 conducted at the Federal Bureau of Prisons 17 Metropolitan Detention Center, Brooklyn, New 18 York, warden's conference room. 19 Also present are DOJ/OIG Assistant Special 20 Agent-in-Charge, , Lieutenant 21 This interview will be 22 recorded by me, Special Agent 23 Could everyone please themselves for the 24 record, and spell your last name? To start, 25 again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent EFTA00125123 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 MR. : Assistant Special Agent- 3 in-Charge with the DOJ/OIG 4 and these are my credentials. 5 MS. : Yes, sir. 6 MR. : Please identify yourself. 7 MS. : Lieutenant 8 . Last name 9 With the Federal Bureau of Prisons. 10 MR. : This is an official DOJ/OIG 11 investigation into events surrounding the death 12 of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being 13 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 14 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 15 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : Please review DOJ/OIG form 18 111-226/2. The form states, United States 19 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 20 General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee 21 Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary 22 Basis. 23 "You are being asked to provide 24 information as part of an investigation being 25 conducted by the Office of the Inspector EFTA00125124 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 1 General. This investigation is being conducted 2 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 3 as amended. 4 This investigation pertains to job 5 performance failure and security failure. This 6 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 7 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary 8 action will be taken against you if you choose 9 not to answer questions. 10 Any statement you furnish may be used as 11 evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or 12 agency disciplinary proceeding, or both." The 13 waiver states, "I understand the Warnings and 14 Assurances stated above, and I am willing to 15 make a statement and answer questions. 16 No promises or threats have been made to 17 me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has 18 been used against me." Please review the form 19 and if you understand and agree, please sign 20 where it says Employee Signature. 21 MS. : Okay. 22 MR. : And print your name right 23 below that. 24 MS. : Below that. Okay. 25 MR. : I'm going to sign on the EFTA00125125 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 6 1 signature of the Office of Inspector General. 2 MR. : Okay. And this is Dennis 3 , and I will sign as the witness and 4 fill out the rest of the form. What is the 5 time, 6 MR. : It is 9:59 a.m. 7 MR. : 9:59 a.m., and the place 8 is the MDC Brooklyn. 9 MR. : Thank you. Before starting 10 the interview, I would like to place you under 11 oath. Lieutenant , can you please raise 12 your right hand? 13 MS. : Sure. 14 MR. : Do you swear to the tell the 15 truth and nothing but the truth during this 16 interview? 17 MS. : Yes, sir. 18 MR. : Thank you. You can put your 19 hand down. 20 MS. : Okay. 21 MR. : Please let me know if you 22 don't understand any questions, and I will try 23 to repeat it, or try to rephrase it for you. 24 MS. : Okay. 25 MR. : Thank you for taking the time EFTA00125126 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 1 to meet with us today. You previously told us 2 - we'll jump right into it - you met with us in 3 the past. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : And you previously told us 6 that you were off on August 9th, 2019. That 7 was a Friday. Do you recall? 8 MS. : On August 9th, 2019? I think 9 I was off on the Friday. I think my last day 10 of working was August 8th, I think it was. 11 MR. : August 8th. And do you 12 recall mentioning to us about an issue with the 13 camera -- 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : -- system? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : And you had addressed that 18 situation with the communications technician 19 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : And you remember mentioned, I 22 think the conversation was between - you want 23 to tell us a little bit about it again? Your 24 recollection of it. 25 MS. : Sure. I was - after I was EFTA00125127 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 reviewing the camera, I was looking for an 2 inmate that may have possibly departed the 3 building. So, I was, I went to the camera to 4 review the, to see if I can backtrack exactly 5 when he left the building. 6 I was present at the SIS office, with the 7 Associate Warden from MCC New York at the time, 8 which is AW Edge, we both were looking at the 9 camera, and at that moment, I noticed I 10 couldn't rewind on the cameras. 11 So, I couldn't get any playback. At that 12 moment, we stopped, you know, like, searching 13 for the inmate because we couldn't go back any 14 further than the time we were at. And at that 15 time, I notified communications tech 16 I called him over the radio and let him 17 know, hey, I'm trying to rewind back the 18 cameras, and the cameras won't rewind. And he 19 said he will come and take a look at the system 20 and see what was going on. 21 And which he did. He did come down and he 22 looked at the system, and he said he has to do 23 overtime to fix the system. At that moment, 24 notified Captain . I apologized 25 that the cameras was down, and I also provided EFTA00125128 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 9 1 him with a memorandum, letting him know that 2 the camera system was down. 3 MR. : Okay. And we were able to -- 4 MR. : Before we get into that, 5 though -- 6 MS. : Okay. I'm sorry. 7 MR. : -- as far as the - so, 8 there was a discrepancy with what you said and 9 what AW Edge said. Did you just rewind one 10 and that's not a big discrepancy - just, did 11 you rewind one video at that time, the one you 12 were trying to look at, or did you rewind 13 multiple, to determine that the -? 14 MS. : No. I went back on quite a 15 few. 16 MR. : And was that with AW Edge 17 present? 18 MS. : I can't remember if she 19 stayed -- 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : -- while I was going back at 22 the cameras, to be honest with you. 23 MR. : Because she was saying -- 24 MS. : But I -. 25 MR. : -- she thought it was EFTA00125129 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 just one while she was there, so -- 2 MS. : Right. 3 MR. : -- if it's -. 4 MS. : I can't remember if she 5 stayed, but I did go back on several cameras on 6 the housing units and different areas, to see 7 can I -- 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. -- rewind. 10 MR. : So, you did, but she 11 possibly didn't. 12 MS. : Yes. Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. Great. 14 MR. : So, we were able to identify, 15 with your assistance, through this document was 16 provided to AW Edge, and AW Edge provided this 17 to the MCC attorneys, who in turn provided it 18 to the OIG. 19 MS. : Okay. 20 MR. : And this is the memo that was 21 written by you. I'm going to read it out for 22 the record. Up top it says, the United States 23 Government Memorandum. Federal Bureau of 24 Prisons. MCC New York. 150 Park Road New 25 York. The date is August 10th, 2019, from T. EFTA00125130 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 1 , SIS Lieutenant to , Captain. 2 MS. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : Subject is, "NiceVision 4 (Phonetic Sp. *00:07:26) camera system." "On 5 August 8th, 2019, at approximately 3:45 p.m., 6 while reviewing the Nice camera system, I 7 attempted to recover video footage from the 8 unit 5-South housing unit." 9 MS. : Yes. 10 MR. "At this time, I was unable 11 to recover any previous recordings from the 12 camera. This prompting me to review all of the 13 cameras. None of the cameras on the system 14 were able to record. 15 Therefore, I called communication 16 technician I. , via radio. At 17 approximately 4:00 p.m., responding to 18 the third floor phone monitoring room to check 19 the cameras, and notified me that the cameras 20 were not recording, and there was no way to 21 retrieve any video. stated he fixed the 22 camera system on Friday, August 9th, 2019, when 23 he arrived to work." 24 MS. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : Do you recall writing this EFTA00125131 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 memo? 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : Is this the memo? Okay. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : Just to clarify, the date 6 that you wrote the memo will be on August 10th? 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : This would be the Saturday 9 following -- 10 MS. : Yes, sir. It would be the 11 Saturday. 12 MR. : And August 9th, you were off? 13 MS. : Yes. I'm almost sure I 14 wasn't there the Friday. I'm almost sure that 15 I wasn't in the building. 16 MR. : That last sentence, that's 17 the -- 18 MR. : Well, first, just to 19 clarify, the August 10th. So, previously, and 20 I think again, you just, I think you assumed 21 you wrote it on August 8th, but it looks like 22 you actually wrote it on the 10th. 23 MS. : I did assume that I wrote it 24 on the 8th. 25 MR. : All right. EFTA00125132 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : I did. 2 MR. : So, looking at that now, 3 do you know that it was now written on the 4 10th, on the Saturday, as opposed to on that 5 Thursday, when you first found out? 6 MS. : Yes. 7 MR. : Okay. So, that's not, 8 like, a misunderstanding? That's, now looking 9 at it, you're, like, oh, that's correct, you 10 actually wrote it on So, does that mean 11 that you didn't tell Captain until the 12 10th, as well? 13 MS. : No. I definitely told him 14 when the cameras was found, because he wouldn't 15 have had any footage, have anything occur. 16 MR. : Because when we spoke 17 with Captain , he didn't think he would 18 or he said he wasn't told until that Saturday. 19 He says he was never informed on that Thursday 20 or Friday. 21 So, we were just - now seeing that memo 22 we were trying to think, oh, maybe you were 23 just mistaken because you were very confident, 24 no, I told the Captain, and I provided him the 25 memo. So, seeing that, does that maybe make EFTA00125133 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 1 you think -? 2 MS. : No. I'm definitely positive 3 that I told him when the cameras was down 4 because we always do. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : Because if something 7 happened, we need to get footage at that 8 moment. 9 MR. : Uh-huh. 10 MS. : And I do recall him asking me 11 did I notify that the cameras was down, 12 and I told him I did 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. because was going 15 to stay to do overtime to fix them. 16 MR. : And you're positive that 17 that was on the 8th? 18 MS. : I'm positive -- 19 MR. : Sorry, go ahead. 20 MS. : -- it was on the 8th. 21 MR. : Sorry. Go ahead. 22 MR. : Okay. And the last thing 23 says, " stated he fixed the camera system 24 on Friday, August 9th, when he arrived to 25 work." Just to clarify, does that mean that he EFTA00125134 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 1 - sorry, let me pause for a second. 2 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I'm sorry. Hi. Hi. How 3 are you? 4 MR. : We're on a recording, 5 just so you know. 6 MR. : So 7 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Oh, I'm sorry. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : Just to clarify, the last 10 statement -- 11 MS. : Yes. 12 MR. : -- does that mean that he 13 fixed, stated, now, did tell you that he 14 fixed the camera on August 9th? Or does it 15 mean that he told you that he will come in on 16 August 9th and fix the camera? 17 MS. : No. On the 8th, he told me 18 he was staying that evening to fix the cameras. 19 When seen me on the 10th, when I entered 20 the Special Housing Unit, he was in there. I 21 don't know if he was working, if he was doing 22 overtime. 23 But as soon as I entered the Special 24 Housing Unit, Mr. immediately approached 25 me. Immediately approached me, and I said, EFTA00125135 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 16 1 well, what happened with the camera system? 2 Because we had this conversation that you will 3 fix it on the 8th. And he said I fixed it 4 yesterday. And then, I'm here today, which is 5 the 10th, to finish up. 6 MR. : So, you mean, he started 7 fixing it yesterday? 8 MS. : So, I'm assuming that, I 9 don't know if he started, or if he fixed it, 10 but I could only go by what he told me. I 11 fixed the camera system, and I'm here to finish 12 it up. 13 MR. : Because when you - when 14 we spoke to you last, you had mentioned that 15 you approached him and said, you told me you 16 were going to fix this, and you said, and then 17 he told you at that time, yeah, I came in here 18 today -- 19 MS. : Right. 20 MR. : -- to do it. 21 MS. : Right. So, I was under the 22 assumption he started on the 9th, and he still 23 had - whatever he had left to do on the 10th, 24 and I assume that that's what he was there to 25 do. EFTA00125136 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 17 1 MR. : Okay. So, not that he 2 fixed it on the 9th, but he started to fix it 3 on the 9th? 4 MS. : Right. I feel like he 5 started to fix it on the 9th, and he was there 6 to finish up, because then he was actually or. 7 overtime in an attempt to, if I'm correct. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. : So, I assumed that he started 10 fixing it, and he was there to attempt to 11 finish it up. 12 MR. : So, should that last 13 sentence then read, he began fixing it on the 14 9th? Instead of he fixed it on the 9th? 15 MS. : It should, but again, I can't 16 recall. I don't want to say, you know, because 17 he told me he fixed the cameras. So, fixing to 18 me, I don't know the camera system. So -- 19 MR. : So, on the 9th, when they 20 knew that they couldn't actually get video, he 21 actually said, I did fix it yesterday? 22 MS. : No. On the 9th. I mean, 23 sorry, on the 10th. 24 MR. : That's what I mean, on 25 the 10th. EFTA00125137 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : When we arrived, and we 2 realized that there was no video over the 9th. 3 That's when he stated, I did overtime, I fixed 4 it yesterday. And then, we would, me and him 5 were having a conversation that it's no video. 6 You can't go back. And his thing was, I'm here 7 to finish up what I started yesterday. 8 MR. : Huh. 9 MS. : So, I don't -- 10 MR. Was it -- 11 MS. -- know what he fixed, 12 because fixing to - I'm sorry - fixing can be 13 he bought all of the cameras back up, so the 14 cameras are online, but I don't know if they 15 were online to record, if that makes any sense. 16 MR. : And so, it's hard for us 17 to understand because if he's saying he fixed 18 it yesterday, and he's here to finish it today, 19 that sounds like it means he started fixing it 20 yesterday, and he's 21 MS. : Right. 22 MR. : -- but what his words 23 were, he fixed it yesterday? 24 MS. : His words was, I fixed it 25 yesterday, and I'm here to finish up today. EFTA00125138 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 1 Now, I don't know what the finish up part for 2 today was, to be honest with you. I'm assuming 3 the finishing up part was the to get them to 4 record, because they were blacked out. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : Most of the cameras were 7 blacked out. 8 MR. : Oh, so, they were 9 actually blacked out? So -- 10 MS. : It was some cameras that were 11 blacked out where it was no screen at all. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : This was on August 8th? 14 MS. : On August 8th. 15 MR. : Okay. So, he actually 16 got the cameras to not be blacked out anymore, 17 so meaning, he fixed the cameras that were 18 blacked out, and on the 10th, he was going to 19 get them to start recording? 20 MS. : That's what I assume. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. : It's just an assumption 23 because when I got there the 10th, I didn't 24 physically go to see if the black out cameras 25 was back online. EFTA00125139 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 MR. : All right. So, when you 2 say fixed in that, you're talking about, he got 3 the cameras back up and running, but the 4 recording part was going to be fixed on the 5 10th? 6 MS. : That's my assumption. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. : It's just an assumption. 9 Because I really can't say what he did. I can 10 only say -- 11 MR. : Well, it -- 12 MS. : -- what he said. 13 MR. : -- if he said to you, on 14 the 10th, I fixed them yesterday, did you ask 15 him then, well, then, why can't we get the 16 recordings? 17 MS. : I didn't. 18 MR. : No? 19 MS. : I didn't. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : Hmm-mm. 22 MR. : But now, your assumption 23 is, he fixed the cameras to get them back up 24 and running, and on the 10th, he was going to 25 fix the recording part. EFTA00125140 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 21 1 MS. : He was there to finish 2 whatever that fixing was, and I'm assuming that 3 it was the recording part because they still 4 weren't recording on the 10th. 5 MR. : Okay. But that was an 6 assumption on your end? 7 MS. : That was just an assumption 8 on my end. 9 MR. : And you didn't ask him 10 anything further on that? 11 MS. : I didn't ask him anything 12 else. 13 MR. : Okay. Sorry. 14 MS. : No, I didn't. 15 MR. : Go ahead. 16 MR. : Do you recall having a 17 conversation with him on the 10th about him not 18 having access to the communication room? 19 MS. : No. 20 MR. : On the 9th. Him not being 21 able to access the room because there was no 22 one there to open the door for him? 23 MS. : No. No. And he would be 24 able to have access to the room because all of 25 the keys are located in the control center. EFTA00125141 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 1 MR. : But the center control would 2 be locked up, right? 3 MS. : The control center, they 4 would - my keys would have been locked behind, 5 like, an emergency glass. But he's accessed my 6 keys in the past to fix the cameras. 7 MR. : How would he access them? 8 MS. : He would get permission from 9 the captain to get my keys because that's who 10 has to authorize the keys. 11 MR. : And he would go to the 12 captain, and the captain would authorize it, 13 and he could just take the keys? 14 MS. : I would hope so 15 MR. : Mm-hmm. 16 MS. : -- that he would get 17 authorization, but he's been there late nights 18 when there has been nobody in SIS, fixing the 19 cameras. 20 MR. : And you recall specific 21 situations where the captain has authorized him 22 to take your keys and go into the room? 23 MS. : I can't say I was present 24 when he authorized him to take the keys. I'm 25 not going to say that I was present. But EFTA00125142 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 23 1 MR. : But you recall -- 2 MS. : I recall times when I told 3 the captain, hey, is going to stay late 4 because the camera system is not working, and 5 the captain say, okay, I'll be here. And he 6 would be and have access to that room. 7 MR. : Does that mean was 8 given the keys, or the captain would go in and 9 open the door for him? 10 MS. : That, I'm not sure. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MS. : That, I'm not sure. 13 MR. : So, do you remember 14 around, approximately, what time it was on 15 August 8th that you learned that the cameras 16 were down? 17 MS. : It was late in the afternoon. 18 MR. : And you're positive it 19 was late in the afternoon? 20 MS. : It was in the afternoon. 21 MR. : And when you were 22 determining that these cameras were down, you 23 actually saw that they were -- because this is 24 the first we're hearing that there were blacked 25 out cameras, all along we've been told they EFTA00125143 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 were up, they just weren't recording, so there 2 was no way to tell that they were 3 MS. : No. You -- 4 MR. : -- down. 5 MS. : -- you had some cameras that 6 were offline completely, with an X, I don't 7 know if you've ever seen a camera system. 8 MR. : So, was it still review, 9 videoing? Like, could you see it, but there 10 was this X on it, or was it just all black? 11 MS. : No. You couldn't see. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. : You couldn't see. 14 MR. : And you're positive 15 MR. : So, seeing -. 16 MR. : -- about that? 17 MS. : I'm positive. 18 MR. : So -. 19 MR. : Okay. And then, so, 20 you're saying, and you're positive that it 21 happened late in the afternoon on August 8th? 22 MS. : Yes. 23 MR. : Because Captain 24 left early that day for a appointment 25 on the 8th. So, that goes back to, are you EFTA00125144 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 sure you told him on the 8th? Because he 2 wasn't there. 3 MS. : No. I spoke to Captain 4 about the cameras because he asked me, 5 was I going to fix the cameras? I know it 6 definitely was after the lunch, the lunch 7 break. So, between - it was afternoon time 8 between 12:00, 1:00. 9 MR. : All right. So, when you 10 say late afternoon, before, you're now thinking 11 it was actually early afternoon? 12 MS. : Well, that's late afternoon 13 for me when I get it -- 14 MR. : All right. 15 MS. : -- because I get in 5:00 in 16 the morning. So -- 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. -- I'm sorry. But it 19 definitely was somewhere after the inmates' 20 lunch. Between 12:00, 12:00 noon, I want to 21 say between 12:00 and 2:00. In that timeframe. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MS. : I can't tell you exactly the 24 time. But it definitely was before I went 25 home. EFTA00125145 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 26 1 MR. : Okay. So, you're 2 positive they were blacked out, you're positive 3 you told Captain 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : Sorry. Go ahead, 6 MR. : How many screens would you 7 think were blacked out? 8 MS. : I don't even want to guess 9 because it was a lot of cameras up there, but 10 it was a good many. I know the housing units 11 were recording. The blacked-out cameras, it 12 was a lot of the corridors where we buzzed the 13 doors, and we opened, a lot of the corridors 14 were out. I do remember that. I do remember 15 the units were up. The housing units were up. 16 MR. : So, let's talk about that for 17 a second. I know it's important for the, how 18 important is it for the cameras to be working? 19 MS. : Very. 20 MR. : Now, we have two situations. 21 One is, the camera feed not working, which 22 would mean being able to view the cameras live. 23 And second is the actual recordings not 24 working. 25 MS. : Okay. EFTA00125146 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 27 1 MR. : So, how important is it for 2 the camera feed to be working at all times? 3 MS. : Very. 4 MR. : Compared - I know, let's 5 talk, separate that out from the actual 6 recordings working. How often do people go in 7 and view the live feeds? 8 MS. : It's my - this is just, 9 again, I would say it should have been daily 10 because since I've been at MCC New York, normal 11 practice was that the communication shop came 12 up every morning, went into that area where, 1 13 don't know, like, the motherboard was at. 14 And they checked it. So, that's what I've 15 always was used to happening. And they will 16 say, hey, you got some cameras down, or A, B, 17 C, and D, because SIS uses the cameras a lot. 18 You know? 19 We going back for video. We looking for 20 fights. Like, you know, they're up on our 21 desks sometimes who we're just seeing who's 22 doing what. So, I would say daily that they 23 definitely should be monitored. 24 MR. : Okay. And if the camera 25 feeds were not working, I understand the EFTA00125147 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 recorder is not, that the recording is not 2 there. And we might have spoken about this in 3 the past, but should have gone home for 4 the day, or should the recordings, the feeds 5 been fixed immediately? 6 MS. : I kind of don't know the 7 process of fixing the feeds because I know it 8 was times he said he had to order new cameras. 9 So, I don't know if they were fixable where he 10 had to order new cameras, and had to wait for 11 cameras to come in. 12 So, I don't even, I don't even know, 13 honestly, if he would have been able to fix 14 those cameras that was out, or if he needed to 15 order new cameras to fix those cameras that was 16 out. 17 MR. : You mentioned there were 18 quite a few feeds out, right? 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : Do you think it was possible 21 that he came in, he told you on the 10th that 22 he came in on the 9th and he fixed them. Is it 23 possible that he replaced all those cameras by 24 the 9th? 25 MS. : Oh, I don't know. EFTA00125148 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. Okay. 2 MS. : I don't know. 3 MR. : Any other follow up on that? 4 MR. : No. I mean, I don't 5 think he was replacing cameras. Are you 6 talking about, like, hard drives that go with 7 the cameras? 8 MR. : I think when she said about 9 the live feed -- 10 MR. : Yeah, yeah. 11 MR. -- she meant in order to see 12 the live feed, he would have to replace some of 13 the cameras. 14 MR. : So, you think he actually 15 replaced the cameras -- 16 MS. : I don't know -- 17 MR. : -- or something? 18 MS. : -- if he would have to 19 replace them, but I know it was instances that 20 he would say, oh, I have to order new cameras. 21 So, I assume that those cameras are broke, and 22 they need to be replaced. 23 MR. : Okay. Okay. So, on the 24 8th, though, you knew that there was actually 25 two problems. One, that they were blacked out; EFTA00125149 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 and two, that they weren't recording. 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : And the ones that weren't 4 recording, were they the same ones that were 5 blacked out? 6 MS. : Nothing was recording. At 7 all. 8 MR. : Nothing. You couldn't 9 find anything recording? 10 MS. : No. I couldn't. 11 MR. : Because our understanding 12 was half of the cameras were recording and half 13 of them weren't. Just the ones you checked 14 weren't recording. 15 MS. : Just the ones I checked. And 16 normally, that would be the housing areas will 17 be where I'll target because that's where the 18 inmates at, and that's where 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MS. unfortunately, the 21 incidents usually are. 22 MR. : And what - you said prior 23 - I just want to make sure we're clear - with 24 the ones that were blacked out were not the 25 housing units? EFTA00125150 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : No. I don't recall any 2 housing units being blocked out. 3 MR. : But the housing units 4 were the ones that weren't recording? 5 MS. : Right. I know they weren't 6 recording. 7 MR. : So, there was just a 8 problem with basically all of the cameras that 9 you knew of. 10 MS. : It seemed that way to me now. 11 Yes. 12 MR. : And did you know, did you 13 provide that information to either AW Edge or 14 Captain 15 MS. : No. Not about the whole 16 system because I kind of don't know how it 17 works. So, I said to hey, you got a 18 lot of areas that's blacked out. With a red X. 19 MR. : Okay. And then, so, 20 knowing all that information, what is it that 21 you told Captain 22 MS. : I just told him that I 23 couldn't get any - I couldn't go back. They 24 weren't recording. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00125151 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : I didn't say the whole 2 institution is not recording because I didn't 3 know. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MS. : It's just the cameras that 6 actually checked. 7 MR. : Okay. And did you tell 8 him if it was, like, more than one, though? Or 9 did you just say, hey, I can't get anything 10 recording, is coming to fix it? 11 MS. : I can't recall saying more 12 than one. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. : I can't recall using those 15 words. 16 MR. : All right. And what 17 about AW Edge? Did you, then, fill her in 18 after you were reviewing the one camera? 19 MS. : No. No. She left. 20 MR. : She left -- 21 MS. : Yeah. 22 MR. : -- so, and you never 23 talked to her 24 MS. : No. 25 MR. : -- about it again. EFTA00125152 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Hmm-mm. 2 MR. : All right. And did she 3 know the cameras were down, or did she just 4 know that you were having a problem rewinding? 5 MS. : I think she - to be honest 6 with you - she only knew that I had a problem 7 because I couldn't playback that one unit. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. : Because that's the unit that 10 we were looking at, which were the cadre units, 11 that they go home and go different places. 12 Because after we couldn't find that inmate, she 13 kind of just left. 14 MR. : Okay. And have you 15 spoken with AW Edge since we last spoke? 16 MS. : No. 17 MR. : No? 18 MS. : No. 19 MR. : So, you didn't talk about 20 this matter with her? 21 MS. : No. I just received, I want 22 to say an email, or it might have been - I 23 can't even say it was after or before, but I 24 did receive notification from her that she CC'd 25 me on an email about my documentation because EFTA00125153 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 these were my documents that were in her 2 office. 3 So, she said, hey, I just want to let you 4 know that I gave them to the warden, whoever 5 the warden was at that time, that was acting. 6 And he stated he would give them to legal. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. : And that was it. 9 MR. : And that's regarding your 10 memo that we have right here? 11 MS. : All of my documents. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. : Yeah. 14 MR. : All right. 15 MS. : This would have been included 16 17 MR. : And what about -- 18 MS. : -- in a pile of documents. 19 MR. and what about Captain 20 ? Have you spoken with him since we last 21 spoke? 22 MS. : No. 23 MR. : Not at all? 24 MS. : I haven't seen him. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00125154 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 35 1 MR. : Do you recall the video that 2 you were trying to pull up on August 8th? When 3 you were trying to rewind. Were you trying to 4 rewind the video for just that day, or from a 5 previous day? 6 MS. : I was trying to go back to 7 that day, at that time -- 8 MR. : So, for August 8th. 9 MS. -- yes. 10 MR. : Not August 7th, 6th, or 11 anything like that. 12 MS. : No. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. : No. 15 MR. : And you said it was 5- 16 South? 17 MS. : It was 5 -. It was, I think 18 we were looking at 5-South and the 5-South 19 sally port. That may be a little foreign. 20 It's like the hallway. 21 MR. : Yeah, sure. 22 MS. : in between the two doors. 23 MR. : That's where the elevator is. 24 MR. : And what -. 25 MS. : Right. EFTA00125155 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : And what is 5-South? 2 MS. : 5-South was the cadre unit. 3 MR. : The cadre unit. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : All right. And can you 6 just explain, briefly, what does the cadre unit 7 mean? 8 MS. : The cadre units are inmates 9 that was designated to MCC New York. So, they 10 was very in custody inmates, out custody 11 inmates, community custody inmates, but their 12 designation was to MCC New York. 13 MR. : So, does that mean 14 general population, or is it something 15 different than general population? 16 MS. : No. They're general 17 population. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MS. : Yes. They call them the work 20 cadres. So, they work around the building, in 21 different departments. 22 MR. : So, I'm going to clarify that 23 a little bit. A majority of MCC New York, are 24 the inmates awaiting trial? 25 MS. : Yes. Pre-trial. EFTA00125156 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 37 1 MR. : Pre-trial. Cadre unit, are 2 those inmates already sentenced? 3 MS. : Yes. 4 MR. : So, these are post-sentence 5 inmates. They are assigned to, already 6 sentenced, and they're -- 7 MS. : Okay. Assigned to MCC New 8 York. 9 MR. : -- yeah. And now, these 10 cadre inmates, do they have any special 11 privileges? 12 MS. : I wouldn't say special 13 privileges, but some do. Meaning, they can 14 work. 15 MR. : Work. And what kind of work 16 do they do? 17 MS. : You have some on the electric 18 detail. Some on the plumbing detail. You have 19 the outside detail, which was the Dayton Manor 20 detail. 21 MR. : So, they get to move around a 22 little bit? 23 MS. : They move around. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : Are they known as EFTA00125157 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 orderlies? 2 MS. : Well, any inmate that work, 3 even pre-trial inmates who have a job is known 4 as orderlies. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : But cadres, do they get to 7 leave the facility? 8 MS. : Some do. 9 MR. : Some. They get to leave MCC, 10 some work as town drivers? 11 MS. : Right. 12 MR. : They go to the warehouse. 13 Come back. 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : Some do. Yes. 17 MR. : So, they are, like, low 18 risk inmates? 19 MS. : They're supposed to be, yes. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : Yes. 22 MR. : But these are sentenced 23 inmates that have permanent - at that point, 24 they were assigned to MCC. 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00125158 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : Anything else on -? 4 MR. : I guess the last question 5 I would say is, do you know what it was you 6 were trying to watch? Like, what happened that 7 caused you to try to watch the 5-South video? 8 MS. : I do. I can't recall the 9 inmate's name. We were looking for him because 10 we suspected that he was involved with an 11 incident that OIG Agent (Phonetic Sp. 12 *00:28:00) was looking into, and myself. 13 So, this inmate name kept coming up. 14 can't remember if it was phones or, you know, 15 narcotics. I can't remember. But his name 16 kept coming up. And me and stated, 17 okay, we're going to talk to this inmate 18 together, to see if he had any role in what we 19 were looking at. 20 And me and talked, then I said, this, 21 , this inmate got released. And that's 22 what made me go and try to see exactly when he 23 got released, you know, let me track what time 24 he got released, because me and had even 25 spoke about going to - if he got released to EFTA00125159 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 1 the halfway house - we were going to go to the 2 halfway house and speak to him. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : Okay. I'm going to move on. 5 MR. : Go ahead. 6 MR. : I have a document here. 7 MS. : Yeah. 8 MR. : This states, for the record, 9 number 104, timestamp 9:00, August 2019. Can 10 you let us know what we're looking at? 11 MS. : I don't know what this is. 12 So, this was provided by , from the com 13 shop. 14 MR. : Okay. So, provided 15 this to who? 16 MS. : To me. 17 MR. : To you? 18 MS. : And I turned this over to OIG 19 because they requested the call. The call 20 logs. 21 MR. : So, is that -- 22 MS. : So, this is the call log. 23 But this is foreign except for the date and the 24 end date. 25 MR. : So, you wouldn't understand, EFTA00125160 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 11 1 you wouldn't know what this is about? 2 MS. : I just know it's a call log. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. : Because this is what he gave 5 me. So, I'm assuming this is the date somebody 6 made a call. Again, the end and time. What 7 time the other person answered. Just from 8 looking up here, at the top of it. Everything 9 down here, I don't know. 10 MR. : Now, did give that to 11 you based on a request that you asked him for? 12 Did you ask him for a call, a specific call 13 log? 14 MS. : I want to -. 15 MR. : Well, read the date and 16 time, and then -- 17 MR. : So -- 18 MR. : -- maybe that will help. 19 MR. : -- the start date on this is 20 August 9th. 21 MS. : Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : 2019. The answer date is 23 August 9th, 2019. 24 MS. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : And the end date is August EFTA00125161 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 42 1 9th, 2019. So, it's the same date, right? And 2 the start time is 18:58:03. So, that means 3 6:58 p.m. 4 MS. : Okay. 5 MR. : The answer time is 6:58:22. 6 So, that means -- 7 MS. : Mm-hmm. 8 MR. : 6:58 p.m. And the end 9 time is 19:19. That's 7:59 p.m. 10 MS. : Okay. Yeah. 11 MR. : So, the call, it seems that 12 it lasted about 21 minutes. 13 MS. : About 20 minutes. Yeah. 14 Again, whatever call logs that I asked him for 15 was call logs that was asked from OIG of me, 16 hey, I need the call log. They asked for it. 17 I know they asked for the Special Housing 18 Units. How many phones were up there. And -- 19 MR. : And by looking at that, 20 are you able to tell if that was a Special 21 Housing Unit call? 22 MS. : I don't know. 23 MR. : Does it show anything on 24 there, 25 MR. : There is a caller station, EFTA00125162 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 43 1 there is numbers and everything, but it doesn't 2 state specifically. 3 MR. : Okay. Do you know 4 anybody that made a call from the MCC on August 5 9th, 2019, at approximately 7:00 p.m. that 6 would be of interest for people that were 7 investigating? 8 MS. : I don't know. 9 MR. : So, do you know anything 10 about Epstein calling and placing a telephone 11 call from the SHU on August 9th, 2019? 12 MS. : Only word of mouth, that I 13 heard when I got there on the 10th, that he - I 14 want to say the unit manager gave him a call 15 because that was the discussion - the unit 16 manager gave him a call to his mother. 17 And at that point, they were saying his 18 mother was dead. And I don't know if this is 19 the call, because I don't know how to read it, 20 but I did hear that part of it. 21 MR. : And do you remember if 22 you asked for that specific information? 23 Did Epstein place a call? 24 MS. : I wouldn't have asked him did 25 he place a call? I would have asked him EFTA00125163 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 1 whatever phone numbers that OIG asked me for. 2 MR. : Okay. Now, as far as the 3 information that you just said, which unit 4 manager provided who a call? 5 MS. : It's my understanding that 6 Unit Manager Bullock gave Mr. Epstein the call. 7 MR. : Okay. Sometime on, in 8 the night of August 9th, 2019? 9 MS. : Mm-hmm. That's my 10 understanding. But that was just hearsay. 11 People speaking. I didn't witness him give a 12 phone call. No. 13 MR. : But you don't know if 14 that's the call log for him? 15 MS. : I have no idea. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. : And based on that, if this 18 was the request for that, if this was the 19 request for that call log, and this was what 20 the communications tech pulled up, the call log 21 that he pulled up, and this is for the SHU, 22 would this be the phone number listed on the 23 call log? 24 MS. : Oh, I don't know. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00125164 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 45 1 MS. : Because I wouldn't have had 2 the number. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : And we'll just have her 5 initial and date both of these. 6 MR. : No problem. On both these 7 documents, just initial and date -- 8 MR. : So -- 9 MS. : Okay. 10 MR. -- not attesting to it, it's 11 just that, these are the documents we showed 12 you. 13 MS. : No problem. 14 MR. : And one is the memo from 15 August 10th, and the other is the call log from 16 August 9th. 17 MS. : Okay. 18 MR. : And again, it's 3/16/22. 19 MS. : Yes, sir. 20 MR. : Do you know what 21 Acknowledgement of Inmate form BP-408 is? 22 MS. : BP-408? Oh, I've been out a 23 while. BP-408. I'm not sure what -. 24 MR. : Give her some 25 MS. could you EFTA00125165 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 46 1 MR. : -- yeah. Give her some 2 context to that. 3 MR. : I'm going to read. 4 MR. : So, when someone gets a 5 pack and PIN, or they're able to use the inmate 6 telephone system, would they have to sign 7 something called an Acknowledgement of Inmate 8 form, BP-408? 9 MS. : I'm not sure. Because I've 10 never dealt with their pack and PIN numbers. 11 MR. : So, I'm going to read you 12 this. I'm just going to read you this, so that 13 you can kind of get a 14 MR. : It's going to be separate. 15 MR. : -- full. Well, and you 16 go. Because you -- 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MR. : -- probably understand 19 more. Go ahead. 20 MR. : So, do you know anything 21 about pack and PINs? When an inmate is 22 assigned pack and PINs? 23 MS. : Vaguely. A little about the 24 pack and PIN numbers. 25 MR. : Okay. So, do you know if EFTA00125166 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 Epstein was assigned a pack and PIN? 2 MS. : Oh, I don't know. 3 MR. : Okay. Well, our 4 understanding was Epstein needed to be assigned 5 a pack and PIN, and because he was at attorney 6 conference all the time, he was never available 7 for a pack and PIN to be set up for him. 8 And what we're trying to find out is, if 9 Epstein was ever assigned a pack and PIN, and 10 if he was assigned a pack and PIN, did he ever 11 sign a form called Acknowledgement of Inmate 12 form, BP-408? 13 MS. : Oh, I don't know. 14 MR. : What about if an inmate 15 is afforded a legal call? Do they have to sign 16 a form? 17 MS. : Normally, they request the 18 legal call. This is my knowledge of being a 19 lieutenant. They put a cop-out into their unit 20 team, requesting that a legal phone call, and 21 somebody from their unit team will come up with 22 a logbook, I guess after they verify that that 23 is their attorneys number, and they tell the 24 attorney, okay, we're going to set up this 25 phone call for 10:00. Then they will go up and EFTA00125167 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 1 give the phone call to the inmate, and log it 2 in the legal call back. 3 MR. : But you're not aware of 4 any kind of form that they need to sign as 5 opposed to just the logbook? 6 MS. : I'm not sure because that 7 would be unit team. 8 MR. : Okay. But you're not - 9 you don't remember a BP-408, an Acknowledgement 10 of Inmate form, or what it is? 11 MS. : No. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : Where would we find that? If 14 that's a form that we're looking for, inmate 15 had signed something like that, where would 16 that be kept? 17 MS. : I would think it would be in 18 the inmate's central file. 19 MR. : And that would be in the 20 central office? 21 MS. : And I would think the unit 22 team members would have the central file in 23 their area. 24 MR. : Okay. And if the inmate was 25 in the SHU, it would be in the SHU? EFTA00125168 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 1 MS. : It would still be with the 2 unit team that the inmate was assigned to. 3 MR. : Okay. And now, I'm going to 4 read you a paragraph here. This is about 5 federal regulations. 6 MS. : Okay. 7 MR. : "Federal regulations require 8 that the warden of each BOP institution 9 establish procedures to monitor inmate 10 telephone conversations, which is done to 11 preserve the security and orderly managing of 12 the institution, and to protect the public. 13 For safety and security reasons, BOP 14 policy requires that all inmate telephone calls 15 be made through the inmate telephone system, 16 ITS. BOP policy recognizes that on rare 17 occasion, in times of crisis, inmates may be 18 permitted to make a telephone call outside of 19 the ITS. 20 In such circumstance, the telephone must 21 be placed in a secure area; example, in a 22 locked office, and must be set to record 23 telephone calls. Additionally, the staff 24 member coordinating the call must notify the 25 BOP Special Investigative Services (SIS) via EFTA00125169 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 1 email, providing the inmates' name and register 2 number, the date and time of the call, the 3 number and name of the individual called, and 4 the reason for the call. SIS must enter this 5 information into the telephone recording system 6 within seven days." 7 MS. : Okay. 8 MR. : Do you recall if you ever got 9 notified about a call like this for Mr. 10 Epstein? 11 MS. : No. 12 MR. : Okay. Was it standard 13 practice at MCC if an inmate was ever afforded 14 a call like this, would you ever get an email? 15 MS. : No. I've never gotten an 16 email. 17 MR. : Were you ever been aware 18 of this requirement? 19 MS. : No. 20 MR. : Were you ever aware that 21 inmates were given calls like this where a unit 22 team member, let's just say if an inmate wasn't 23 given a pack and PIN, a unit team member would 24 sometimes plug a line in to the legal line, and 25 would let them make phone calls to personal -- EFTA00125170 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : No. 2 MR. -- family members? 3 MS. : I didn't know. 4 MR. : Do you know if that was 5 against policy if they did something like that? 6 MS. : In my opinion, yes, it's 7 against policy because the legal line is for a 8 legal phone call. 9 MR. : And what happens if they were 10 to allowed to do something like that? 11 MS. : What happens to who? 12 MR. : No. What happens if an 13 inmate is allowed to -? What is a call like 14 that, if they have to make a call to a 15 personal, a personal call, why does the call 16 have to be made on a recorded line? 17 MS. : Because it can be a safety 18 issue if they have an unmonitored call, because 19 there's no way for us to go back and listen to 20 the call. It could have been a threat. You 21 know, it could have been something that could 22 have just been a catastrophe, and that you have 23 no way of knowing. 24 That's why we have that ICS system in 25 place, so we can go back and listen to the EFTA00125171 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 52 1 calls, and we can identify anything that was 2 abnormal. 3 MR. : And I know this is Monday 4 morning quarterbacking the situation, but a 5 situation like this, with Mr. Epstein, the fact 6 of the circumstances that surrounded what 7 happened between August 9th and 10th, looking 8 back that he was allowed to make a phone call 9 like that on August 9th, should that have been 10 allowed? 11 MS. : No. In my opinion, no. 12 MR. : Why not? 13 MS. : It goes back to what I 14 stated. We have no way of monitoring those 15 phone calls. So, we don't know if - you know, 16 just an example - if I may, we don't know if it 17 was to intimidate a witness. 18 We just don't know the context of the call 19 because we can't go back to listen. We don't 20 even know in the call if he was saying, hey, 21 I'm feeling like this, because you have no way 22 of going back and listening to that call. 23 MR. : And being that someone, that 24 he was allowed to make that phone call, should 25 someone have been standing there with him, EFTA00125172 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 monitoring that phone call? 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. And should that have 4 been logged up? Should that have been a log? 5 That a call like that was made. 6 MS. : Yes. 7 MR. : Okay. Anything else on that? 8 MR. : You just have a question 9 here. On that last note. 10 MR. : The call log? 11 MR. : This one. Sorry. 12 MR. : Oh. I think she answered 13 that. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : You mentioned before the call 16 log that we showed you, that's the call log -- 17 MR. : Oh, that's the log -- 18 MR. : -- that's the -- 19 MR. : I thought you were 20 talking about this other log that you just 21 mentioned. 22 MR. : No, no, no. 23 MR. : I'm sorry. 24 MR. : That call log that you said 25 that -- EFTA00125173 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : No. Disregard. 2 MR. okay. 3 MR. : You can move on. 4 MR. : No problem. Now, we're 5 moving on to August 10th. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : Would there be a record of 8 the exact time Correctional Officer Tova Noel 9 pushed the emergency button on her radio? Like 10 -? 11 MS. : I'm not too sure if -. 12 know when you key up the radios, they do 13 register on the control panels. In the control 14 center. But I don't know if that's recorded, 15 where they can run, like, that's how they ran 16 the telephone log. I'm not too sure. Only Mr. 17 Daniels will know that because he's a com shop. 18 MR. : So, he would be able to pull 19 it up? 20 MR. : Maybe. He would be the 21 only one -- 22 MS. : He would be the only one -- 23 MR. : -- to answer. 24 MS. : -- that -- 25 MR. : Could answer it. EFTA00125174 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 55 1 MS. : -- would know if you can go 2 back and pull those timeframes up. 3 MR. : So, just to run through the 4 day. Let's just say Michael Thomas, Tova Noel, 5 the situation, they're up there on the tier, 6 and they discover Epstein. 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : And they wanted to hit the 9 they wanted to notify control, hey, there is an 10 emergency. How would they notify control? 11 MS. : They should hit their body 12 alarms which -- 13 MR. : Which is located where? 14 MS. -- on their radio. 15 MR. : So, they both have a radio, 16 or just one person? 17 MS. : Up in the SHU, they both 18 should have radios. But I don't know if they 19 both had radios. But I know a body alarm is 20 assigned to the Special Housing. 21 MR. : It's assigned. And the body 22 alarm is where? 23 MS. : The body alarm, one of the 24 officers have to carry it. I'm not too sure if 25 they all do. I really can't remember. But I - EFTA00125175 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 MR. : Is it separate from the 3 radio? 4 MS. -- no. 5 MR. : Or no, no. It's a button on 6 the radio 7 MS. : It's just a button on the 8 radio. 9 MR. : okay. 10 MS. : And once you hit that body 11 alarm, it goes throughout the whole building, 12 on everybody's radio. 13 MR. : And at least one officer in 14 the SHU is assigned that? 15 MS. : At least one officer should 16 have the body alarm in the SHU. 17 MR. : So, it's just a special 18 radio that has an alarm? 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : But it's called the body 21 alarm? 22 MS. : They're called body alarms. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. : What does it look like on the 25 radio? EFTA00125176 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : It's an orange button. 2 Orange or red button. 3 MR. : And when they hit it, 4 everyone gets notified? 5 MS. : It goes across all the 6 radios. 7 MR. : And what is normal practice? 8 Like, once it hits, what transpires? 9 MS. : Whoever is in the building 10 responds to that area. When you hit that body 11 alarm, it pops on the control panel, and a big 12 screen, and we can see exactly where it's 13 coming from. 14 MR. : Okay. And is that the 15 control officer? 16 MS. : The control officer will call 17 it. You know, we have a body alarm in the 18 Special Housing Unit. 19 MR. : And who is supposed to 20 respond? 21 MS. : Normally, everybody who has a 22 radio and who is not supervising inmates 23 respond to that area. 24 MR. : Every supervisor? 25 MS. : If they're in the building, EFTA00125177 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 they should be. 2 MR. : What about if you are 3 assigned the housing unit? Are you allowed to 4 leave the housing unit? 5 MS. : No. 6 MR. : No. 7 MS. : You're not supposed to, no. 8 MR. : But if, let's say you're 9 internal and you're moving around, you're 10 supposed to respond? 11 MS. : Yes. 12 MR. : So, as long as you're not 13 assigned to a housing unit, and you're just 14 there in the facility, you're supposed to 15 respond? 16 MS. : Right. 17 MR. : Is there certain officer 18 that's assigned to respond for emergencies? 19 MS. : No. There is no specific 20 assignment. 21 MR. : Okay. What is the average 22 time it takes for additional correctional 23 officers to respond in a case of emergency? 24 MS. : Normally, within two to three 25 minutes. EFTA00125178 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 1 MR. : But it's not, like, oh, yeah, 2 and you ring the, you put the - or you press 3 the body alarm, it's like a matter of seconds, 4 oh, yeah, someone is there, it takes about two 5 to three minutes on average? 6 MS. : Yes. If somebody is there in 7 a matter of seconds, that mean they're right 8 outside the door when that alarm went out, but 9 most of the time, we have to get elevators, we 10 have to run up the stairs. So, we have to get 11 to the area. 12 MR. : Okay. Is there one officer 13 controlling the elevator? 14 MS. : The control center is 15 controlling the elevator. 16 MR. : So, that control officer 17 would have to know where the officers -- 18 MS. : To pick -- 19 MR. are going? 20 MS. everybody up. Because 21 everybody will come across the radio. Hey, 22 pick me up on two. Pick me up on three. Pick 23 me up on four. So, that officer has to start 24 picking up from every floor. 25 MR. : Do they keep a log of EFTA00125179 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 60 1 everything that transpires when an emergency 2 happens? 3 MS. : What do you mean, a log of 4 everything -- 5 MR. : Let's just say -- 6 MS. : -- that transpires? 7 MR. -- like, the stuff that comes 8 over the radio. Like, the calls that come 9 over, and when a body alarm is hit, do they 10 keep track of, hey, this call came over the 11 call, or this person responded. 12 MS. : The practice should be, once 13 the body alarm goes off, that control center 14 has a logbook, as well. So, the control center 15 officer should have that in their logbook. 16 7:15, a body alarm went off in the Special 17 Housing Unit, for example. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MS. : And if I was the responding 20 lieutenant, and I cleared that body alarm, 21 let's say at 7:20, that logbook should also 22 say, 7:20, body alarm cleared by Lieutenant 23 24 MR. : Okay. And this logbook, it's 25 called the control officer logbook? EFTA00125180 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE I 1 MS. : Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. Okay. 3 MR. : How often do body alarms 4 go off? Or would they, around that time? Is 5 that, like, a daily occurrence, or is it 6 weekly, or -? 7 MS. : I want to say almost daily, 8 it's body alarms. 9 MR. : Okay. So, people are 10 very familiar with what to do when a body alarm 11 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. : -- goes off. Now, just a 14 quick question. If an operations lieutenant is 15 relieved at, like, 6:00 a.m., let's say, or 16 prior, the alarm goes off at 6:33, but that 17 operations lieutenant is still in the building, 18 working on documentation, would that operations 19 lieutenant, even though they've been relieved, 20 would they be required to respond -- 21 MS. : They should. Yes. 22 MR. : -- they should still 23 respond? 24 MS. : Yes. 25 MR. : So, even though they've EFTA00125181 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 been relieved for their shift -- 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : should -. 4 MS. : You still should respond 5 because you're physically still in the 6 building. 7 MR. : Okay. And would that 8 operations lieutenant have given back their 9 radio, though, already if they were already 10 relieved? Or would they still have a radio on 11 them? 12 MS. : If they're sitting in the 13 office, well, let me backtrack so I don't seem 14 confusing. The operations lieutenant that was 15 relieved would turn the radio up to the 16 relieving lieutenant. 17 So, we're not assigned individual radios. 18 You have one assigned for operations 19 lieutenant, and one assigned for activities 20 lieutenant. So, if I relieve you, , I'm 21 going to give you - you're going to give me 22 your radio and your keys. 23 MR. : So, if that person was 24 relieved, and then is working on documentation, 25 how would they know that a body alarm was EFTA00125182 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5. 1 activated? 2 MS. : Normally, you hear it. 3 MR. : Oh, so, everyone could 4 hear it? 5 MS. : Yeah. You hear it. 6 MR. : Okay. So, like, because 7 it's a loud sound? 8 MS. : Yes. 9 MR. : Does it go throughout the 10 institution? Or just on the radios? 11 MS. : It just go on the radios, but 12 it's really loud. So, even if somebody is 13 using the bathroom, if they have their radio, 14 you hear it. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : You hear it. 17 MR. : Like, as in, like, if a 18 radio is going off outside of the bathroom, 19 even if they don't have their radio in the 20 bathroom, is that what you mean? 21 MS. : You'll hear it. 22 MR. : Okay. So -- 23 MS. : You'll hear it. 24 MR. : -- the person using the 25 restroom would hear a radio that was outside of EFTA00125183 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 the restroom, is what you mean? 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. : And then, the lieutenant's 5 office, the way it's set up in MCC New York, is 6 we also have the Nice camera system set up with 7 big screen TVs, as such. So, if you are there 8 and you see people running, your first instinct 9 going to be, what's going on? Everybody is 10 running. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : So, if you're still in the 13 office, and -- 14 MS. : If you're in the office. 15 MR. : -- office, and you're still 16 doing work -- 17 MS. : Mm-hmm. 18 MR. : -- you should be able to see. 19 MS. : Yes, because I think it's 20 about three or four big screen TVs in there. 21 MR. : Now, is it a requirement 22 that they respond, or just they should respond? 23 MS. : I don't, I can't recall a 24 policy on if you've been relieved, but you 25 definitely should respond. EFTA00125184 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 65 1 MR. : Okay. Would that be a 2 sound correctional judgment? 3 MS. : Yes. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : I'm going to move on. 6 MR. : Yup. 7 MR. : I'm going to, this document 8 that I'm showing you -- 9 MS. : Yes. 10 MR. : -- is dated Friday, August 11 9th, 2019. And then, the back is dated 12 Saturday, August 10th, 2019. Can you let us 13 know what this document is? 14 MS. : Yes. Well, this is called 15 the SHU locator form. 16 MR. : What does that mean? 17 MS. : It's basically all of the 18 ranges in SHU, and the cell numbers, and the 19 inmates that's assigned to the cells. 20 MR. : Okay. So, basically, a 21 roster for the SHU. 22 MS. : It's a roster for the SHU, 23 cell assignments, who's the cell, assigned to 24 what cell. 25 MR. : Okay. And then, the bottom EFTA00125185 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 66 1 here, on L-tier, 220-U, and 220-L. Who are the 2 inmates assigned on there? 3 MS. : Inmate Reyes and Inmate 4 Epstein. 5 MR. : What is C/F? You see the 6 letters next to Epstein's name, it says C/F? 7 C/F. 8 MS. : Yes. 9 MR. : What does that mean? 10 MS. : Common fear. Common fear 11 meal. Meaning, he got some kind of, I don't 12 know what was his religion. 13 MR. : So, it's -- 14 MS. : But it's a religious 15 MR. : -- yeah. 16 MS. : -- meal. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. : That's the common fear. 19 MR. : I just wanted to get 20 clarification on that. 21 MS. : Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : Just have her initial and 23 date it. 24 MS. : Okay. 25 MR. : Next document, it states EFTA00125186 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 67 1 "United States Department of Justice, Federal 2 Bureau of Prisons, MCC New York. Transfer 3 Receipt." This is dated Friday, August 9th, 4 2019. Received from L. N'Diaye. Warden MCC 5 New York. "Following United States prisoners." 6 Sorry, it's a little tough to read. 7 MS. : No. 8 MR. "Prisoners together with 9 complete files for transfer as indicated WAB, 10 USMS, SDNY." What is this document? 11 MS. : I have -. This is an R&D -. 12 MR. : So, you've never seen one of 13 these documents? 14 MS. : Documents. I don't know what 15 that is. Well, it's a transfer receipt. But I 16 don't know when they do it, and for, obviously, 17 why they do it. I don't know. 18 MR. : But you've never seen one of 19 these before? 20 MS. : No. I've never physically 21 seen the transfer receipt. 22 MR. : And this is not, you don't 23 think this is one of those documents that goes 24 out to the units, saying these are the inmates 25 that are getting transferred? EFTA00125187 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. Hmm. I don't think so. 2 Because I've never seen it. As a lieutenant, i 3 would have seen it, and if we had good officers 4 in there, I would have received a copy, as 5 well. I've only seen the rosters. The 6 physical rosters. Never the transfer receipts 7 go out to the unit. 8 MR. : And when you say it's a 9 transfer receipt, does that mean that it's 10 created after the prisoner is transferred? 11 MS. : I don't know. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. : I don't know. 14 MR. : The signature on that bottom. 15 Do you recognize that name by any chance? 16 MS. : No. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:50:39). I 19 don't know who that is. 20 MR. : Okay. No problem. 21 MR. : Two minutes. Two 22 minutes. 23 MR. : And this is just the last 24 set. 25 MS. : Sure. EFTA00125188 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : What I'm showing you are 2 pictures. It is in black and white. 3 Unfortunately, we were not able to print it in 4 color. There's two pictures here. I need - 5 you to initial these after. 6 MS. : Sure. 7 MR. : These are, these pictures 8 were taken by the coroner's office, just to 9 clarify. 10 MS. : Okay. 11 MR. : And these were taken at the 12 MCC, just to clarify. These look like AED 13 machines? 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : And do you know what this is? 16 MS. : It looks like a -- 17 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:51:24). 18 MS. a home-made noose. 19 MR. : A home-made noose. 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : Have you seen this before? 22 MS. : Yes. 23 MR. : Do you know what this is? 24 And to us, in the - because it's in black and 25 white, and I know in the picture it looks black EFTA00125189 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 MS. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : -- to us, in color, it looks 4 like a curtain. 5 MS. : No. It looks -. How can I 6 ? It's like a divider. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MS. : On wheels. 9 MR. : That's what we need you to 10 clarify. So, where is this picture taken? 11 MS. : I'm not too sure where they 12 took this picture at. 13 MR. : The divider on wheels. Was 14 this something that was brought up to the SHU, 15 or was this somewhere else? 16 MS. : I don't know. I don't know. 17 MR. : Do you recall something like 18 that, like, that was brough up into the SHU to 19 cover up Epstein's cell, or was this brought in 20 the health center to help? 21 MS. : I don't know. 22 MR. : Would the divider be - if 23 an inmate committed suicide - would a divider 24 be put up outside of his cell so that other 25 inmates can't see what's going on? EFTA00125190 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 1 MS. : I've never seen a divider put 2 up. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MS. : Since I've been a lieutenant. 5 MR. : Okay. No problem. Can you 6 initial and date? 7 MR. : Do you know if there was 8 a divider put up after Epstein was removed, so 9 that - because it was a crime scene? 10 MS. : I don't know. When I got 11 there, there was no divider up. 12 MR. : Okay. So, you don't 13 recall -- 14 MS. : Once I arrived. No. 15 MR. : -- you don't recall 16 MS. : I didn't see 17 MR. : -- a divider. 18 MS. a divider. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MS. : No. 21 MR. : Since the last time we spoke, 22 was there anything else that came to mind you 23 think that you would want to share with us, 24 anything else that you think would be pertinent 25 to our investigation? EFTA00125191 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 1 MS. : Nothing that I thought about. 2 I felt like you guys touched on everything when 3 we spoke. 4 MR. : Well, thank you again for 5 taking the time -- 6 MS. : No problem. 7 MR. -- to talk to us. 8 MS. : Any time. 9 MR. : All right. Thank you, 10 thank you. 11 MS. : No problem. 12 MR. : Oh, and just, you still 13 are a lieutenant, you said? Correct? 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : And you're right now 16 assigned to the MDC -- 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : -- but on leave? 19 MS. : Yes. 20 MR. : Okay. But you're 21 expecting to return to the MDC? 22 MS. : Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. Thank you. 24 MS. : You're welcome. 25 MR. : This is Special Agent EFTA00125192 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 73 1 . The time is 10:48 a.m., and we are 2 stopping the recorder. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 EFTA00125193 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of , Transcriber EFTA00125194