EFTA00126336.pdf

1 2 DIGITALLY RECORDED SWORN STATEMENT OF OIG CASE #: 2019-010614 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL APRIL 7, 2022 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES Agoura Hills CA 91301 Phone: APPEARANCES: OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL BY: BY: WITNESS: OTHER APPEARANCES: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 MR. : This is Special Agent . Today is April 7, 2022. The time is 10:21 a.m. The recorder is now on. My name is . I'm a Special Agent with the U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office. These are my credentials. MR. : I'm going to -. Man. MR. : This interview with Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, , is being conducted as part of an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General investigation. Today's date is April 7, 2022. The time is 10:22 a.m. This interview is being conducted at the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, New York Field Office. Also present are DOJ OIG Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, , and via phone is DOJ OIG Assistant Special Agent-in-Charge, This interview will be recorded by me, Special Agent . Could everyone please identify themselves for the record and spell your last name. To start again, I am 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DO]/OIG Special Agent MR. Charge MR. Electronics Technician. Last name, 4 Assistant Special Agent-in- MR. : ASAC , can you introduce ourself, please? MR. : Yes, this is Special Agent-in- Charge MR. : Thank you. This is an official DOJ/OIG investigation into events surrounding the death of inmate Jesse Epstein, and you are being asked to voluntarily provide answers to our questions. Will you agree to a voluntary interview with the DOJ/OIG? MR. : Yes. MR. : Please review DOJ/OIG form III-226/2. The form states, United States Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General, Warnings and Assurances form, Assurances to Employee Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary Basis. "You are EFTA00126336 5 1 being asked to provide information as part of 1 2 an investigation being conducted by the OIG. 2 3 This investigation is being conducted pursuant 3 4 to the Inspector General Act of 1978, as 4 5 amended. This investigation pertains to job 5 6 performance failure and security failure. This 6 7 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 8 not have to answer any questions. No 8 9 disciplinary action will be taken against you 9 10 if you choose not to answer any questions. 10 11 Any statement you furnish may be used as 11 12 evidence in any future criminal proceedings or 12 13 agency disciplinary proceedings or both." 13 14 The waiver states, "I understand the 14 15 warnings and assurances stated above and I am 15 16 willing to make a statement and answer 16 17 questions. No promises or threats have been 17 18 made to me and no pressure or coercion of any 18 19 kind has been used against me." This is the 19 20 same form we've rovided you before. 20 21 MR. : Yes. 21 22 MR. : Please review it. If you 22 23 understand, on the right side, please print 23 24 your name and sign your name. If you 24 25 understand and agree -- 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. form? MR. : Yes. Okay. -- sign and print. I will sign and print. Do you understand the MR. : Thank ou. This is Special Agent I'm signing on the signature of the Office of the Inspector General Special Agent. And ASAC -- MR. : This is -- MR. MR. : I'm sorr ASAC 6 I'm signin on the signature of witness line. MR. : Before starting the interview, I would like to place you under oath. Mr. , can you please raise your right hand? Do you swear to tell the truth and nothing but the truth during this interview? MR. : Yes. MR. : Thank you. You can put your right hand down. Please let me know if you don't understand any questions and I'll try to repeat it or try to rephrase it for you. MR. : Okay. 7 1 MR. : Thank you. Thank you for 2 taking the time to meet with us today. We have 3 a few follow-u uestions. 4 MR. : Mm-hmm. 5 MR. : You met with us twice 6 before. 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : And it's based on our 9 interview, from prior, we had a few follow-up 10 questions in regards to that, and a few new 11 questions for ou too. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. : Before we begin, what is 14 your curriiiiiiiiiyment status with the BOP? 15 MR. : I'm an electronics 16 technician at MDC Brooklyn, Com Tech. Same 17 position I was in MCC. 18 MR. : And this is your permanent 19 position nut.? 20 MR. : Yes. 21 MR. : And you transferred over? 22 MR. : Yes, when they closed it 23 down. 24 MR. : Okay. So, let's take a 25 step back. In August 2019, what was your 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 8 typical work schedule? MR. : My schedule was 6:00 to 2:00 p.m. MR. : 6:00 to 2:00 p.m. Is that Monday thiiiiiiiiiday? MR. : Monday through Friday. During that time, I think I was working overtime because we started the camera project. MR. : The camera project is? MR. : Before all this got started, we were upgrading the cameras in the MCC. So, my schedule changed, and I was working, like, ten or 12 hours a day during this time. MR. : So, Monday through Friday, normal schedule could be 6:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m.? MR. : Yes. MR. : So, that would be about eight hours. MR. : Yes. MR. : So. if you're working ten to 12, that means you were working to, what, about 4:0iiiiiiiii:00 p.m.? MR. : Yes. EFTA00126337 9 1 MR. : Okay. And what about on 2 the weekends? 3 MR. : I was working a little bit 4 of overtime there during that time, too. 5 MR. : Okay. And is that 6 somethingliiiiiiiied prior approval for, or -? 7 MR. : Yes. Well, they knew what 8 was going on, so I got pretty much prior 9 approval. If I showed up, I showed up. If it 10 didn't, they didn't really -. Because the 11 project was going on. I have a life, too. I 12 can't just be working at the prison all the 13 time, so they understood if I didn't show up or 14 didn't come in for overtime. Because my 15 regular schedule is Monday through Friday, 6:00 16 to 2:00. 17 MR. : Okay. And as needed, you 18 would come in, too? 19 MR. : Yes. 20 MR. : ASAC , did you have 21 anything in regards to his schedule? 22 MR. : I did not. Thanks. 23 MR. : No problem. I'm going to 24 move on. 25 In our previous interview, you mentioned 10 1 you had recalled having a conversation with SIS 2 Lieutenant You remember her, right? 3 MR. : Yes. 4 MR. : Thursday, August 8th, you 5 had a conversation with her about cameras not 6 working inside the MCC. Do you recall that? 7 MR. : Thursday or Friday. 8 MR. : Thursday, August 8th. 9 MR. : No. 10 MR. : You don't recall having a 11 conversation with her? 12 MR. : The only time they spoke 13 about it was Friday, about the cameras, that I 14 remember. 15 MR. : So, you recall on Friday. 16 Who did you have a conversation with? 17 MR. : Lieutenant and 18 that's when I spoke to IIII. She's the 19 Associate Warden. That's when they told me 20 that the cameras were down, on that Friday. 21 MR. : On that Friday? 22 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : So, just to clarify a 24 little bit. So, Lieutenant wasn't 25 working on Friday, August 9th. They were 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 actually workin -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : -- she was off on August 9th. MR. : August 9th. MR. : Friday, August 9th. She was workin on Thursday, August 8th. MR. : Yeah. MR. : According to the schedule, she was working Thursday, August 8th, and the conversation that she told us about happened on - she recalls - that it happened on Thursday, August 8th, Associate Warden also stated it happened on Thursday, August 8th. MR. : Oh, so it must have been Thursday. MR. : Okay. MR. : I'm not too sure because everythiniiiiiiiiibled in. MR. : Okay. And do you recall what the issue was with the cameras? MR. : They said they wasn't recording. MR. : Was that the only issue you remember? Was there anything else with the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 MR. 22 difference? 23 MR. 24 they have the monitors and the SI Office is 25 right down the hallway, where the SIS Office 12 camera? MR. : They couldn't pull video for whatever reason. They couldn't extract video. They were looking for video for something and couldn't find it. MR. : So, it wasn't recording, and they couldn't pull any video? MR. : Yes. MR. : Do you remember if there were any cameras -? So, when they were trying to pull video, where were they trying to pull video from? MR. : I have no idea. I don't really remember that they were trying to pull video froiiiiiiiii. MR. : Which office were you guys in? MR. : Probably on the second floor by the - maybe the SIS Office, or it was in the Video Room. : All by the -. What's the : The Video Room is where EFTA00126338 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would be. MR. standing there tr MR. MR. 13 : Okay. And do you remember ing to help them pull video? Yes. : And when you were trying to pull video, do you remember looking up at the screens and seeing any blank screens? MR. : In the SIS Shop? MR. : In the SIS Shop, or on the monitors. There's a lot of monitors. MR. : Oh, the SIS, that was, that has been in and out forever. That was not really working properly even when I got there. There's been issues. There was issues with that. MR. : Can you explain that a little further? MR. : Okay. So, was it in the Video Room or the SIS Shop? MR. : I'm not sure where this happened, so based on recollection, if you can tell me, iiiiiiiiicall where this happened? MR. : If I was looking at multiple monitors, it probably was in the Video Room. That's where they have -. The live feed 14 1 goes to the video matrix, and then it's split, 2 and it goes to all the other cameras. 3 MR. : So, you're saying if it's 4 in the SIS Shop, and there was issues in the 5 SIS Shop? 6 MR. : No, if it was in the SIS 7 Shop, that's the network. They're on the 8 computer and they're trying to pull video. If 9 they're in the Video Room, it's the live feed 10 that's goin to the cameras. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : And it's inputted on the 13 screen. It's split going to the recorder, and 14 it's split on the output going to the actual 15 screens. Yeah. 16 MR. : So, which ones had issues 17 where you couldn't see anything? 18 MR. : I don't know. Because it 19 was a lot of stuff not working at that time. I 20 can't reaiiiiiiiii 21 MR. : Do you remember any 22 screens being black, like blanked out with X's 23 on them, iiiiiiiilioint? 24 MR. : I don't know. It was - 25 that room was always a mess when I got there, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 15 as far as stuff not working or working. MR. : But you don't remember them, Lieutenant or IIII, mentioning, hey, listen these screens are blank. There's X's on them, they're not working. You just mentioned that - just on topic - you just mentioned that there were always issues. MR. : Yes, there were always issues. Sometimes, I would go in there and stuff was working. Sometimes, I'd go in there, stuff was not working. Exactly what was working or not working, I'm not too sure of. MR. : So, which one was it? Just to clarify. I missed that. Which one was it that wasn't working -- : So, what -. : -- the SIS or the Video MR. MR. Room? MR. : It would be the Video Room. It wouldn't be in SIS, because -. Okay, the Video Room is the live feed coming from the analog matrix onto the actual screens. Some of the cables got disconnected because there was issues. And then SIS, that would be all of the cameras in the institution. They would be 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 16 coming from the network. They'd be trying to pull video from the actual recorders. MR. : So that's where basically you can IS MR. : You log in and you try to pull video. MR. • SIS Shop had MR. MR. MR. MR. : Okay. So, you can - the the ability to log in -- : Yes, pull video. -- and review video. : Yes. : So, but the other part, the video monitoring -- MR. : That's just live -- MR. : -- had to be live wired. MR. : -- that's just live wire, yeah. That's everything coming in. MR. : And if the live wires were removed by any chance, would that be a black screen? MR. : Yeah, it would be a black screen, yes. MR. : So ,is it possible this conversatioiliiiit have taken place with Lieutenant inside the Video Monitor EFTA00126339 17 18 1 Room? If she recalls that there was -- 2 MR. : Yeah, if there were 3 screens -- 4 MR. • -- screens that -. 5 MR. : -- that's in the Video 6 Room, yes. 7 MR. : Black screens, okay. So, 8 do you recall her mentioning on August 8th - by 9 any chance, do you recall? I know it's been a 10 couple years -- 11 MR. : Hmm. 12 MR. : -- it's hard to remember, 13 but do you recall her mentioning anything 14 about, hey, there's blank screens, access that 15 needs to be fixed? 16 MR. : I was working on that 17 since I got there. I was still working on 18 that, until I was leaving, so -. It was an 19 ongoing issue I knew about. But the main thing 20 was, even if the screens were blank, that 21 everything would be recorded, going to the 22 recorders. Like, the live view in the Video 23 Room, that's extra. But if you could pull 24 video from the recorders, that's the main thing 25 I was worried about. I wasn't really worried 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 about the live view. MR. : Okay. MR. : That's something I would have to worry about later. But the main thing was to make sure the cameras are recording in the institution. MR. : Okay. And so, this happened, well based on the fact that this happened on Thursday, August 8th, do you recall coming in August 9th fixing anything? On August 9th? MR. : I'm pretty sure I did. I must have followed up. Because I was going to come back Saturday to do something, so I know on FridayIII/Llwhen I went back to the room. MR. IIIIIIIII: Okay. I'm going to show you a memo. There's a memo dated August 10th, from , SIS Lieutenant. That would be MR. MR. MR. MR. : Yeah. : To , Captain. : Mm-hmm. : Subject was "NiceVision Camera System." And for the record, I'm going to read it, and then I'll show it to you. 19 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : "On August 8, 2019, at 3 approximately 3:45 p.m., while reviewing the 4 Nice Camera System, I attempted to recover 5 video footage from the Unit 5 South Housing 6 Unit. At this time, I was unable to recover 7 any previous recordings from the camera, this 8 prompting me to review all of the cameras. 9 None of the cameras on the system were able to 10 record. Therefore I called the communication 11 technician via radio." That would be 12 you, right? 13 MR. : Yes. 14 MR. : Okay. "At approximately 15 4:00 p.m., responded to the third floor 16 Monitoring Room to check the cameras and 17 notified me that the cameras were not recording 18 and there was no way to retrieve any video. 19 stated he fixed the camera system on 20 Friday, August 9, 2019, when he arrived to 21 work." 22 So, it looks like the memo was written on 23 August 10th and this is in regards to a 24 conversation she had with you on August 8, 25 2019, and at the end, she stated that you told 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 20 her on August 9th, you told her on August 10th that, when you came into work on August 9th, you fixed the camera issue. Do you recall that? MR. : No. (Indiscernible *00:12:58). So, I was working after 3:4S. So, I was on overtime that day she called me? MR. : It might have been. MR. : Because I leave at 2:00. MR. : So, you -. MR. You want to just read through that a ain -- MR. : Yeah. MR. : Yeah. Read through it for yourself. MR. : -- and just -. MR. : "At approximately 3:45 p.m. on the Nice System, I attempted to recover -. At the time I was -." MR. : There might be some grammatical -. MR. : Yeah, that doesn't really MR. : Does that seem accurate, to EFTA00126340 21 22 1 your recollection? 2 MR. : No. 3 MR. : So, you don't call fixing 4 anything? 5 MR. : I might have been looking 6 at something, but I have to make sure that it's 7 fixed, like, before I say, hey, you can pull 8 video and I have to pull video myself. 9 MR. : But she said there's a 10 possibility that, when you came in on the 9th, 11 you might have fixed the issues with the blank 12 screens. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : And then, you might have 15 came back in on August 10th, which would be 16 that Saturday, to fix the recording issue. Do 17 you think that be accurate? 18 MR. : No. That doesn't really 19 make any sense to me, either. 20 MR. : Okay. Do you recall if - 21 I remember we spoke about this before, I don't 22 know if your memory hasn't recollected any of 23 it - but about you not being able to access the 24 SIS Shop because no one was in the SIS Shop. 25 MR. : Yeah, and I don't have the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 key to get in the room. : Okay. : I didn't have access to MR. MR. get in the room. MR. : Because no one was there in the SIS Sho MR. : Yes, nobody was -. Yes. MR. : And normally, there would be someboiiiiiiiiiring the phones, right? MR. : Yes, there should be a phone monitor, if somebody was there, unless they got ulled to work a different post. MR. : Yeah. MR. : But they're supposed to be - that's be a post. MR. : And that Friday, nobody was there? On August 9th, I think they had left earl or something to that effect -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : -- and then, you couldn't get in. Do you recall - Lieutenant mentioned to us that Captain had the ability to et ou into the room - do you know if Captain had his own set of keys for that room? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 MR. : Yes, he did. MR. : Separate from? MR. : Yeah. The Captain I think, or the SIS could get in that room. I'm not too sure. MR. : I know SIS -. Lieutenant had her awn set of keys. MR. : Yeah, could get in with a key. Yeah -- MR. : Okay. MR. : -- but I think the Captain had the key to let me in the room. I'm not too sure. Honestl MR. MR. MR. You're not certain? : I'm not certain. : So, the SIS Lieutenant's keys are kept behind some kind of box in the (Indiscernible *00:15:22). MR. : Yeah, everything is kept behind glass and the technician's, their keys are kept behind glass. And whoever is in the Video Roolls_itIltehind glass. MR. IIIIIIIII: Okay. But does the Captain have his own set of keys? MR. : Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 MR. : That's not behind glass? MR. : No. I don't know how they do the Captain's. I know the SIS Shop, that was the main key and if I tried to get in, it was behind lass, to get in the room. MR. : Do you recall approaching Captain , asking him for access to that room on August 9th? MR. : I don't remember. MR. Okay. Because I know, based on Captain , Captain was in the facility until about 8:00 p.m. on that Friday night, August 9th? He worked until about 8:00 p.m. MR. MR. : Hmm. I didn't know that. : So, but you don't recall ever seeing him, or talking to him, or asking for access to that room to fix the cameras? MR. : No. I don't remember. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't. I don't - that's -. I donL112211y-. MR. IIIIIIIII: Okay. But if needed, you could have asked Captain , he could have let you in? MR. : He would have locked the - EFTA00126341 25 1 if he had_112_ke y. 1 yes, he would let me know. 2 MR. IIIIIIIII: Okay. ASAC 3 anything on that topic? 4 MR. : Yeah, in regard to the memo. 5 Mr. , I know that time on August 8th, 6 that seems way off based on what you had told 7 and before, and -- 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. -- frankly, what had 10 told us. The key thing that we yianted to find 11 out is that last line. The " stated he 12 fixed the camera system on Friday, August 9th 13 when he arrived to work." 14 MR. : Mm-hmm. 15 MR. : So, that's the main thing 16 we just wanted to confirm. 17 MR. : I don't think I did that. 18 MR. : Yeah, because the last time, I 19 know our guys explored pretty in depth what 20 happened on Au ust 9th. 21 MR. : Mm-hmm. 22 MR. : That was that Friday where it 23 sounds like -- 24 MR. : Yes. 25 MR. : -- you got the hard drives to 26 1 go repair the thing. and just couldn't get in 2 because no one was there, or the phone monitor 3 was leaving. So, we were surprised to see that 4 there was a statement that you may have told 5 someone that you had repaired it on August 9th. 6 So, we just wanted to confirm whether or not 7 .ro ad told someone, specifically Lieutenant 8 , that you had repaired that system on 9 August 9th. 10 MR. : I don't believe so, no. 11 Because I was still working on it so -- 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. -- I couldn't do it. 14 MR. : Very good. Th4LLy2u, sir, 15 and that is all I have on that IIIIII, thanks. 16 MR. : Thank you. Just as 17 normal, can you initial and date it? You're 18 attesting to the accuracy, it's just a document 19 that we showed ou. 20 MR. : Hmm. 21 MR. : Today's the 7th. 22 MR. It's that you reviewed it. 23 MR. : Oh, today is four -- 24 MR. : 4/7. 25 MR. : 4/7/22. 27 1 MR. : We can move on to the next 2 topic. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : You mentioned, previously 5 and even now, that there was a camera upgrade 6 going on durin that time. 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : Do you recall if there was 9 a contraciiiiiiiiie for these upgrades? 10 MR. : Yeah, it was supposed to 11 be NiceVision, but we just ended up doing 12 pretty much everything inhouse because it was 13 taking 14 MR. : Okay. I'm going to show 15 you a contract. 16 MR. : Yes. 17 MR. : Do you recognize that 18 contract? 19 MR. : Yes. This looks like all 20 the stuff we put in for to upgrade the camera 21 system. 22 MR. : lust so -. Give me one 23 second. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : Just for the record, I'm 28 1 going to read this out because it's -- 2 MR. : It's very (Indiscernible 3 *00:18:26iiIIIIIII 4 MR. : This states the - the 5 contract states up top - it says, MCC New York. 6 And the contract number is GS-07F-, as in 7 Frank, 0322T, as in Tom. The award effective 8 date is 9/21/2018. And the order number is 9 15B-, as in boy, NYM-, as in Mary, 18F-, as in 10 Frank, 1-, as in Tom, P-, as in Peter, 120150. 11 And the requisition number is 1064-18. 12 Now, that's the document you were 13 reviewing, and you believe that is the camera 14 upgrade? 15 MR. : The initial, probably the 16 initial 17 MR. : When you say initial? 18 Were theriiiiiiiii? 19 MR. : Yeah, because they had a 20 contract. This was the original contract, as 21 far as upgrade goes, and then, like a year 22 later, there was another bid that we put in for 23 more upgrades. 24 MR. : Okay. 25 MR. : But this was the original. EFTA00126342 29 30 1 MR. : And this is dated when 2 again? 3 MR. : 2018. (Indiscernible 4 *00:19:31iiiiiiiii/21/2018. 5 MR. : 2018. Were you involved 6 in this? 7 MR. : Yes. 8 MR. : Who was the point of 9 contact for this? 10 MR. : Steve Smith. He's, like, 11 the head of Nice. And then, but the main 12 person I would talk to was Justin Houston, but 13 Steve Smith is the brains behind it. I really 14 wouldn't talk to Steve because he was, like, 15 overseeing it. The main person I would talk to 16 was Justin Houston. 17 MR. : Justin Houston. Okay. 18 MR. : And I called him asking 19 him every question, because I never did fiber 20 before, or network camera systems, so. 21 MR. : All right, so Justin 22 Houston is the Si Net point of contact then? 23 MR. : Yes. 24 MR. : Okay. Who was the point 25 of contact for BOP then, at the MCC? Who was 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the point of contact? MR. : That would be the Facility Manager, whoever that was. Or the General Foreman. I'm lust MR. MR. : Who? -- in 2018, so that was (Piiiiiiiiiiiiii0:20:12) probably, and then was the General Foreman. MR. had left by August 2018 right? MR. : Okay. MR. : And then, stepped in? MR. : Yes. MR. : But said that he never really communicated in regards to this. MR. : Yes. MR. : Because he said that he doesn't recall the materials arriving -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : -- or any of that stuff. MR. : No, he wasn't there when I don't think any of this arrived. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 31 MR. : And he never spoke with -- MR. : Anybody. MR. : SigNet. MR. : SigNet, yeah. MR. : So, who spoke with SigNet in regards to the materials and all that? MR. : It was just kind of like a thing -. I would just call this, every once in a while, hey, did the stuff come in, or what's going on? But there was really -. MR. : So, you communicated with SigNet? MR. : Yeah. SigNet, yes. MR. : Okay. Was there anybody else that communicated with SigNet? MR. : No, not until got there. MR. : And after that it was 7 R. : Yes. MR. : Or was it both of you guys together? MR. : It was pretty much He's in c. v. know. MR. : Okay. When did get 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 there? MR. : I don't know. Honestly, I don't. It's around this time, like, August or July of 2019. MR. : Okay. Can you flip to page four of that? MR. : Yes. MR. : And you mentioned it before, right? What was the name of the recording system that was ordered for the MCC? The Nice -- MR. MR. MR. MR. system that was MR. MR. this was MR. MR. : Nice or -. -- the Nice, NiceVision? : Yeah, NiceVision. Yes. : And that's the type of ordered, right? : Yes. Okay. Do you recall - and laced in September of 2018. : Yes. : Do you recall when all the NiceVision, all that stuff in that order was delivered to the MCC? MR. : It was coming in piece-by- piece. EFTA00126343 33 1 MR. : Piece-by-piece. 2 MR. : Yeah. 3 MR. : It wasn't delivered 4 together? 5 MR. : It might have been, but 6 the warehouse was, like, a mess. So, whenever 7 they told me I had packages, I would go and get 8 it. 9 MR. : Okay. So, what do you 10 recall, what came in first? 11 MR. : As far as what came in, 12 mainly the recorders and the new rack, and 13 probably the UPS. 14 MR. : Recorders, and what else? 15 MR. : The UPS and the rack that 16 the recorders would go in. 17 MR. : All right. So, the 18 terminoloiiiiiiiiiver my head. 19 MR. : Okay, so just the metal 20 hardware that the UPS would go in, and the 21 recorders. 22 MR. : So, based on, if you could 23 look at that and tell us what you're thinking, 24 and off of the a e number four. 25 MR. : So, Nice. So, it would be 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 the hard drives would come in. That's the line item two would come in. The decoders would come in. So, that's line item five. AMS would come in, line item six. Line item seven would come in. Oh not - yeah. Line item seven would come in. Cameras never came in. Line item ten would come in. And the wall mount never came in, and a media cabinet. So, that line item 14, yeah. MR. : So, they call came in around when do ou think? MR. : I'm not too sure. MR. : You think soon after the order was laced -? MR. : It was a little while because there was stuff on backorder, so it wasn't, like, ri ht away. MR. : So, was it in 2018, '19? MR. : Probably in the early part of 2019. MR. : Early part of 2019? MR. : Yeah. MR. : All right. I'm going to show you an email. This email - I'm going to go back - it looks like it's an email from you 35 1 dated October 7th, that's 2 That's That's you? 3 MR. : Yes. 4 MR. : It's dated October 7, 5 2019. 6 MR. 7 MR. : And this is to 8 that's 9 MR. : Mm-hmm. 10 MR. : John Hodge and Justin 11 Houston -- 12 MR. : Hmm. 13 MR. . -- at SigNetinc.com. 14 MR. : Hmm. 15 MR. : And you were asking, "Just 16 following up on the order for the outside PTC 17 cameras ex ected date of delivery." 18 MR. : Mm-hmm. 19 MR. : And looked like Justin 20 Houston responded back on Molictober 7th, 21 2019, right? And he says, " , everything 22 was delivered. Most of it on 11/23/2018. The 23 tracking numbers are below." So, it looks like 24 this is in 2019. 25 MR. : Yeah. : October 7. 36 1 MR. : Like, he responded back 2 with trackin numbers for 2018. 3 MR. : 2018. Okay. 4 MR. : Does that help recollect 5 your memoiiiiiiiii about when those -? 6 MR. : I don't remember when all 7 this stuff -. It was a lot of stuff, and I was 8 trying to get space for it, so I'm not -. If 9 that's when they said it came in, that's 10 probably when it came in. 11 MR. : Does that email look 12 familiar? 13 MR. : Yes. This email looks 14 familiar. 15 MR. : So, that is a 16 communication between you and Justin, and it 17 looks like 18 MR. : Yes. 19 MR. : -- and Hodge? 20 MR. : Yeah, later on because, 21 when was this? Yes. 22 MR. : Who's Hodge? 23 MR. : He's the new contact. He 24 came in after the Epstein thing. 25 MR. : Okay. And what's the EFTA00126344 37 1 communication about the PTC cameras? 2 MR. : Oh, those are outside 3 cameras. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : Those didn't really have 6 nothing to do with the recorders or anything. 7 Those are, like, secondary. They had nothing 8 to do with the recording. Again, the recorders 9 and stuff. 10 MR. : But you think - when he 11 says that's in 2018 - you think those are the 12 NiceVision recorders and the decoders and all 13 that mentioned over here? 14 MR. : Yes. 15 MR. : You think those were 16 delivered - based on Houston's email - it was 17 delivered in the -. 18 MR. : In the end of November, 19 during the holidays, so I probably didn't get 20 it until maybe January, the first week of 21 January. 22 MR. : Okay. Where do you think 23 these items were stored? Once they got 24 delivered? 25 MR. : They were - and I mean 38 1 some of it got misplaced because nobody knew 2 what it was, so it went to Building Four, the 3 warehouse. 4 MR. : Where's that? 5 MR. : That's in Brooklyn. It's 6 right next to Steiner Studios. 7 MR. : This is the Brooklyn Navy 8 Yard? 9 MR. : Yeah, Brooklyn Navy Yard, 10 yes. 11 MR. : What about the other 12 items? You said some went over. 13 MR. : I think there was a time, 14 Like, maybe this was the other order that the 15 decoders got sent over there. Something got 16 sent over there, it was sent, and nobody knew 17 what it was, and so they just sent it to 18 Building Four. 19 MR. : Okay. And who received 20 these orders, do ou know? 21 MR. : The warehouse. 22 MR. : The warehouse? 23 MR. : Yes. 24 MR. : It was shipped to the MCC? 25 MR. : Yes. 39 1 MR. : Do you know who signed off 2 on these? 3 MR. : No. 4 MR. : Okay. But someone 5 received them and somehow, it ended up in 6 Building Four? 7 MR. : Yes. 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 MR. : What's the 30 Percent 23 Room? 24 MR. : It's, right before you go 25 to the loading dock, there's like a Ready Room MR. : Okay. And what about - you said that's some of them - what about the other items? Was there anything housed at the MCC? MR. : Yeah. I had the recorders, and I had the rack. I had it stored downstairs or in another room. I remember, because it was important, so I made sure when I came in, I ut it in MCC. MR. : Where? MR. : So, we didn't have to go look for it. It might have been in the 30 Percent Room or in my Video Room, but I think it was in the 30 Percent Room. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 that we get stuff in, and there was part of the Lock Shop. So, if I had storage, or didn't have space for it, I would ask the Lock Shop, hey, can I put this in your room because I don't haviiiiiiiii MR. : And it's locked up, it's secured? MR. : Yes, secured. Yeah. They're the only ones with a key. Nobody else could get in there. MR. : So, we mentioned everything that's on there, pretty much all the NiceVision equipment, except for the cameras. MR. : Hmm. MR. : What happened to the cameras? MR. : That's what happened. I think the cameras went to Building Four. I was looking for it, and that's what ended up at Building Four and maybe some decoders. MR. : So, you think all, but that's - you mentioned right now that all the NiceVision e ui ent ended up there. MR. : Hmm. MR. : So, you think the cameras EFTA00126345 41 42 1 also got sil l, 2 MR. : Yes. Well, they might 3 have got shipped, but nobody told me. Whenever 4 they came in came in. I'm not too sure. 5 MR. : You're not sure what 6 happened to the cameras? 7 MR. : Yeah. 8 MR. : Do you believe the cameras 9 got shipped or no? 10 MR. : Yeah, they got shipped, 11 but they ended up going to Building Four. 12 Whenever they came in because I remember 13 looking for them and that was one of the 14 things, I had to figure out what happened to 15 the actual - because we were going to network 16 cameras - so I had to figure out where they 17 were at. And they weren't at the rear gate. 18 MR. : Okay. When do you recall 19 looking for them? 20 MR. : I don't really remember. 21 This is probably around the same time I 22 probably sent this email. I was trying to 23 figure out where everything was at. 24 MR. : The cameras. So, do you 25 think the cameras went to Building Eight -- 1 2 3 4 S 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : Hmm. MR. : -- around this time or back in November 2018? So, that's two differentiiiiiiiiiwe're talking about. MR. : Yeah, two different timing, yeah. MR. : So, when do you think the cameras and sent to -? MR. : I think the cameras came later. MR. : Okay. MR. : The recorders and everythin came right away. MR. : Okay. MR. : Yeah. MR. : So, when do you think the cameras came? MR. : Probably after all of this, so ma be in November. MR. : Okay. MR. : No, not November. So, it probably came around November 19th, that's when everythiniiiiiiiii MR. : So, November 2019, after Epstein? 43 1 MR. : Yes, after Epstein. 2 MR. : Do you know why there was 3 such a big delay and why (Indiscernible 4 *00:28:40iiIIIIIII 5 MR. : Because, like, when you 6 order cameras, if you're going to order, like, 7 300 cameras there's usually a backlog of six 8 months or eight months. It's not going to be 9 something you're going to get right away from a 10 vendor. 11 MR. : Was there any other reason 12 why the cameras were not shipped? 13 MR. : Oh, and there may be a 14 signature or something. Because I wasn't in 15 charge, so I couldn't really sign for anything. 16 That was a part of the problem. So, when stuff 17 was gettiiiiiiiiiid. 18 MR. : Was there ever 19 communication between MCC, were you able to 20 (Indiscernible *00:29:05) any communication 21 between MCC or yourself and SigNet, asking 22 SigNet not to shi the cameras? 23 MR. : No. I would never tell 24 them not to shi the cameras. No. 25 MR. : So, we're going to show 44 1 you an email. This email is from you dated 2 Se fill)r5th 2019, at 8:52 a.m. to IM 3 IIIII, Matthew Bailey, Justin 4 Houston, and Steve Smith. 5 MR. : Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : Subject is "MCC New York 7 70E9F." 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : And that's the initial 10 email and it looks like there's a response back 11 from Justin Houston. The initial email from 12 you states, "Good morning. There's a 13 discrepant with 135 dome cameras." 14 MR. : Mm-hmm. 15 MR. : "The proposal part number 16 was Wycon I M62WRB9. 17 MR. : Mm-hmm. 18 MR. : I received 135 of Wycon 19 cameras part number," and it states a part 20 number. "What is the best way to fix this 21 problem? The cameras I received are not part 22 of the ap roved hardware list for the BOP." 23 MR. : Hmm. 24 MR. : Justin Houston responds on 25 September 5th, at 8:58 a.m., ' , this EFTA00126346 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 45 issue is the model number changed because you had us wait to order the cameras." MR. : Hmm. MR. • "The cameras you received are part of the replacement model." MR. : Hmm. MR. • "My recommendation, with the rush to get all this installed, would be to open a magic ticket and request it be added to the approved list. MR. : Hmm. MR. : The biggest issue we have right now is that 90 percent of the cameras on the approved list are EOL." Take a look at this and let me know if you recognize that email. MR. : Yes, I remember this email, yes. MR. MR. : Okay. : But I'm not in charge of saying you can't send cameras, so. MR. : But that says you - the statement up top from Justin is - it clearly states that you told him to hold off on ordering and sending the cameras. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 MR. : Hold on. No, we're trying to figure -. Not hold off, but we have to make sure that - anything we install on the BOP network - we have to make sure that it's approved on the list as far as for (Indiscernible *00:31:29) and everything else. We can't just order anything and get it installed. So, if the original part number was for these cameras, they would have to ship these cameras. And if the part number changed before they send it to us, they have to notify if the part number changed, then we have to get it approved through Computer Services before we install them. We can't just install anything on the network. MR. understandin MR. MR. : Okay. lust to give you an . We spoke with Justin Houston -- : Mm-hmm. -- and one of the things that Justin Houston told us is they send you all that stuff, and in his communication with you, you advised him not to ship the cameras -- MR. : Cameras. MR. : -- because there's no 47 1 where to house the cameras. 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. issue, yes. MR. : So, there's no way to house the cameras, so you told him not to ship the cameras, hold off on shipping the cameras until you get the okay for shipping the cameras, until there's space to do it. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : Until you guys have space to house the cameras. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : Because 300 cameras. I think the order states there's about 300 cameras -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. -- right? MR. : Yes. MR. : That's a lot of cameras. MR. : Yeah. MR. : I'm guessing you need a lot of space. MR. : Yes. MR. : So.. this - I mean, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, : Yeah, that was the biggest 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 like, we get it. MR. MR. nowhere to house MR. MR. can tell us. MR. MR. 48 : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. : Right, hey, there's it. : Mm-hmm. : If that is an issue, you ev. we had nowhere to house it. : Yes. : But if that's a communication between both you guys, just be up front and say, hey, no, I told him to hold off on it. MR. : No. The hold off was, this - the cameras have to be approved on a (Indiscernible *00:32:38) list. And the problem was the cameras that I had requested, BOP went and changed, whoever in Central Office - the original proposal was for access cameras and the problem was these cameras were not going to work on the NiceVision. When you added them to the software app. I make sure every time we got something that it's going to work, because I know when you order a big bulk like that, you can't just send it back. You can't say, hey, I don't have the right stuff, EFTA00126347 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 49 because it's not going to work. And that's part of the problem now. Because these Wycon cameras, 300 of them, I don't know if they're at MCC now, but when I was leaving MCC, they were never installed because the next year the Pogo cameras got installed because the Wycon cameras never really worked with the NiceVision. That's why I was telling everybody to hold off. Because I knew it was going to be a problem with the network. MR. : Okay. So that's what clarifies. MR. MR. : Yes. : So, when this order was placed, and this bulk order was placed, you're saying there was an issue with the cameras? MR. : Yes, yes. Because they have to have a certain plug-in to work on the system, and we have to make sure, hey these are the cameras we're going to order, and these are the ones that are going to get installed. BOP, somebody changed the part number and I'm, like, hold off on it, we've got to make sure these cameras are on our approved list, because they have to sign off on it. If it's not on the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 so approved list, you can't have these cameras in the institution. MR. : Okay. MR. : Because it's just a big order. MR. MR. MR. : So, that's why -- : (Indiscernible *00:33:47). -- so, that's why you told him to hold off on -- MR. : Yes -- MR. : -- shipping it? MR. : -- shipping it, yes. MR. : So, you had to verify the actual -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : -- part number? MR. : Yes. But this, I know you're talking about this, but this really has nothing to do with -. MR. : Okay. MR. : Yeah. MR. : So, that's back in - when did you tell them, when did you initially figure out the fact there was an issue with the parts that were ordered? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. MR. MR. MR. regards to -? MR. and I told the cameras. MR. yet. This is MR. MR. shipped; MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. 51 : Right away. : Right away, okay. : Yes. : Who did you contact in : I contacted Justin Houston about the problem, as far as : But wasn't there oing back to November : Oh. -- November, it was the order was placed in September -- : September. -- of 2018. : Yeah. : Let's just say October. : Yes. : The estimate was October. : Mm-hmm. : Did you contact anybody at BOP and let them know, hey, listen, there's a problem with the order? MR. : I spoke to whoever was in charge at that time. So, Maybe or - oh, 52 1 I spoke to Computer Service Because he 2 would have to send a trouble ticket to get it 3 approved; these cameras approved on the list. 4 MR. : So, you think Computer 5 Services 6 MR. : Mm-hmm. 7 MR. 8 MR. : Mm-hmm. 9 MR. : And you think you spoke to 10 him and told him -? 11 MR. : Because you have to send 12 in a trouble ticket, like this says, to make 13 sure it's approved on the list before it gets 14 ordered. 15 MR. : So, he would have to 16 create a trouble ticket -. 17 MR. : Ticket to get this 18 approved, es. *00:34:49). 19 MR. : And do you remember 20 creating a ticket at all? 21 MR. pretty sure, if it 22 says I spoke to , then he yeah 23 (Indiscernible *00:35:07). Yeah IIIII, yeah, 24 he was aware of it. The Wycon cameras. 25 Because the part number changed. EFTA00126348 53 1 MR. : But it basically sounds 2 like, based on what he said, the part number 3 changed because it was -. 4 MR. : Everything waited too 5 long. Because I can't -- 6 MR. : -- (Indiscernible 7 X00:35:22 habit. 8 MR. : --Iiiiiiand I can't sign 9 off on it. That's why was on the email 10 because he's the one that has to sign off on 11 cameras. I can't sign off on anything. I can 12 do my recommendations, but I can't sign off and 13 get anythiiiiiiiiied to the institution. 14 MR. : But that's different from 15 what you said about the part number not 16 matching u to what you wanted -- 17 MR. : Mm-hmm. 18 MR. : -- to him stating that, 19 hey, no -- 20 MR. : You waited too long, yes. 21 MR. -- you waited too long. 22 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : That's two different 24 things. 25 MR. : That's two different 54 1 things, yes. 2 MR. : So, what - based on this, 3 like, according to the contract - what was the 4 cameras tiiiiiiiiiuys ordered? 5 MR. : 350, (Indiscernible 6 *00:35:49 licenses. 7 MR. : No, I think it was split 8 up. I think it was 75 and -. 9 MR. : Oh. (Indiscernible 10 *00:35:57). Oh, 1Q. Yes, this part number 11 right here. 12 MR. : And you -. What -? Can 13 you read it out so we can -. 14 MR. : 1QM62WR-B9. One Quebec- 15 Mike-6-2-Whisk -Romero - Bravo-9. 16 MR. : And there's another one, 17 too, right? Because that's only one set of 18 cameras. 19 MR. : That's the pointer 20 cameras. That really didn't have anything to 21 do with it. These are the dome cameras. 22 MR. : So, there was nothing 23 wrong with the dome cameras? 24 MR. : They never really worked - 25 even when they changed the part number, this 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 55 never worked on the system. We never even installed these cameras. MR. got installed? MR. they came in eventually, but we have to order - the next year, those are the cameras we installed. I installed a few of these cameras and I had issues, so we had to go to Pelco from the order from the next year. MR. : So, no matter what, you had issues, but do you recall telling Justin - or you said, right now, that you told Justin to hold off because there was issues with the cameras. MR. : (Indiscernible *00:36:55). MR. : You recognized an issue right off the back. MR. : And it has to get approved on the (Indiscernible *00:36:57) list. It was two different issues, but -. MR. : Okay. So initially, you recognized there was an issue and you told : So, the dome cameras never : We had them on hand when MR. : Mm-hmm. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 56 MR. at Computer Services. MR. : Through Computer Services. MR. : And you guys created a ticket, -- MR. : Ticket. MR. : -- and back in October, November 2018? '18, right, because -. MR. : This is all '19. MR. : But that's '19. MR. : Yeah. MR. : But I'm talking back then. MR. : Oh, back here? MR. : Back here, when the initial order -. MR. : Yes, I told him that there was going to be an issue. But I can't really - . I mean I can tell them, hey, hold off, but they're going to ship whatever they're going to ship. MR. : Oh, so, I should clarify. So, maybe that's where the confusing part is. Justin said over here. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. : You're talking about 2018. EFTA00126349 57 58 1 MR. : Yes. 2 MR. : His statement to us was, 3 when those recorders in 2018 were shipped -- 4 MR. : Yep. 5 MR. : -- he didn't ship out the 6 cameras -- 7 MR. : The cameras. 8 MR. : -- in 2018 because based 9 on his conversation with you in 2018. 10 MR. : Yes. The part number was 11 wrong. Yes. 12 MR. : No, no. That's not what 13 he said. 14 MR. : Oh. 15 MR. : He said that you stated 16 that there was no where to house -- 17 MR. : House them, yes. 18 MR. : -- the cameras -- 19 MR. : Yes. 20 MR. : -- in 2018, so you asked 21 him to hold off on shipping. 22 MR. : Yeah, we had to figure out 23 some stuff lo istically. There was -- 24 MR. : But just to -. 25 MR. : -- there was a lot of 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 stuff goin on. MR. : And then, he didn't receive any communication from you up until later on -- MR. : 2019. MR. : -- in 2019. MR. : Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. MR. : And we have - let me show you another email. This is dated - this is another email, but this is not between you and him. This looks like Justin Houston -- MR. MR. SigNet, Inc. MR. MR. is dated MR. : Hmm. -- to Fred Pridemore at Mm-hmm. : Fred Pridemore. And this August 19, 2019. : Okay. MR. : Right. It says, "Fred, I finally got the all-clear from the site to order the cameras -" -- MR. : Yes. MR. : "-- on this job." MR. : Yes. MR. : "Lines ten to 14 on the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 (Indiscernible *00:38:30). Line 12 needs to be changed to the art number at -- MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. -- 334 each." That means - and he, Justin Houston, pointed us to this saying that's when he got the final all-clear. : Final, okay, yes. : From MCC to finally order MR. MR. the parts. MR. : Yeah, because there was, there had to be a signature and I couldn't sign for it. That was another problem, too, because there was nobody in charge. No bills am I assigned for, to get this stuff - hey, these cameras got to get here, somebody's got to sign for it. Because during this time, when this happened, there was reaiiiiiibody in charge. I think, I don't know if was still there or not there, but to get the cameras shipped, there had to be a signature, and I couldn't sign for an MR. : So, there was no - a signature wasn't needed for the recorders? Because the recorders are an expensive part. MR. : The recorders. Yeah, it's 60 1 an expensive part, but the cameras, I couldn't 2 sign off on. Because remember, I was going 3 back and forth about the cameras, hey, I don't 4 think these cameras are going to work. They 5 already shipped that stuff for whatever reason. 6 When it came to the cameras and I was, like, I 7 don't think this is going to work, and they 8 actually needed another signature, and I 9 couldn't sign for it. I couldn't say, hey, 10 change thiliiiiiiimber. 11 MR. : Wait a minute, say that 12 again? Ex lain that slowly. 13 MR. : Okay. So, I knew 14 initially that the cameras weren't going to 15 work on the system. Because I had spoke with 16 Justin. And then, has to sign off on it. 17 And then I s oke to -- 18 MR. This is 2018 or '19? 19 MR. '19. 20 MR. No, no. Let's go -. 21 MR. Oh. 22 MR. Forget about '19. 23 MR. '19. 24 MR. Let's speak about -- 25 MR. '18. EFTA00126350 61 1 MR. : -- '18 only. 2 MR. : Only '18. Yes. I just 3 knew it was a problem, so I probably told them, 4 hey, hold off on shipping the actual cameras. 5 MR. : Okay. So -. 6 MR. : Until we figure out, like, 7 where we're going to house it, and what's going 8 to go on with the cameras. 9 MR. : Okay. So that's, you held 10 off. And the next communication, the next time 11 you told him 12 MR. Ship it. 13 MR. -- ship the cameras would 14 be after -- 15 MR. Yes. 16 MR. -- Jeffrey Epstein's 17 death? 18 MR. : Yes. 19 MR. : Okay. That's what we 20 needed. 21 MR. : Oh, sorry. 22 MR. : That's it. Everything 23 else that happened afterwards makes no 24 difference, but -. 25 MR. : Difference. Yh. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 62 MR. : All right, so that was - everyone held off and it only because logistically there was no way to house them? : There was no way -- : Okay. -- to make sure they were MR. MR. MR. secure. MR. MR. : Okay. : Because you can see, that's a lot of money. You can't just - and everythiniiiiiiiiiars there. MR. : And 350 cameras is a lot of cameras to house. MR. : Yes. MR. : Understood. That's fine. MR. : Yeah. MR. Do you mind if I -- MR. : Co ahead, sorry. MR. -- just clarify. In '18, and just want to clean this up. In 2018, it was a matter of the storage -- MR. : The storage. MR. • -- was the issue. MR. : Yeah. Yeah. MR. : And not -. 63 1 MR. : Not getting the cameras, 2 no. Well, it was 3 MR. : It was not the model. 4 MR. : The model was an issue, 5 and then storage. Because when I spoke to 6 Justin about this, the initial, if this is the 7 -. This is not what we sent up to BOP. The 8 initial, everything that I sent up to BOP, 9 everything was supposed to be access cameras. 10 They went up to the Central Office, they get 11 another approval. They change the part number. 12 When I saw the part number, I'm, like ,wait, 13 hold a minute -- 14 MR. Okay. 15 MR. -- this is wrong. 16 MR. Okay. 17 MR. : Yeah. And we don't have 18 space for it an ay -- 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : -- so, can you hold off 21 and -- 22 MR. : Okay. And that's after this 23 initial -- 24 MR. Yes. 25 MR. Ur Okay. : 64 1 MR. : Yes. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : But none of 4 the CS, , none of that 5 up until -- 6 MR. : Until this. 7 MR. • -- '19. 8 MR. : Yes. 9 MR. : The end of '19? 10 MR. : Yes, when the actual, they 11 were going to get installed. We had to make 12 sure that everything was going to work on the 13 network. 14 MR. Sorry. ASAC 15 MR. Sorry. I'll ask one question : 16 now, and then I'll let you ask a couple of 17 more, looking at your question list. 18 Once you had the space and they had the 19 right cameras in October 2018, were you guys at 20 the institution in a position to install those 21 right awa an va 22 MR. : No. No. 23 MR. Okay. All right. 24 MR. : It took - even after that 25 happened - it took TDY help about a year and a that, like, was addressed EFTA00126351 65 1 half pulling fiber through the whole building, 2 upgrading the infrastructure before we could 3 even install cameras. And then -- 4 MR. IIIIIii ikay. 5 MR. : -- (Indiscernible 6 *00:41:45) to install the cameras, that was 7 another -_22h. 8 MR. IIIII: Yeah. I iiiiiianted to 9 confirm that, and I think will ask you a 10 couple more questions now about what you were 11 getting into. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MR. Thanks. 14 MR. : At that point, now let's 15 talk about August 10, 2019. Like, this is the 16 day that -- 17 MR. : Yeah. Yeah. 18 MR. : -- Mr. Epstein died. How 19 much of that conduit and wiring was actually 20 completed? 21 MR. : I think we started one 22 housing ilisaal_then I started -. 23 MR. IIIIIIIII: That's all that was 24 completed at that point? 25 MR. : Well, as far as the 66 1 infrastructure, yes. Because I think out of 2 the TDY - I don't know when - I know there was 3 TOY hel when first came. It was 4 and (Phonetic Sp. *00:42:39). They 5 came from Texas. And we pretty much fired up 6 one unit to make sure, hey, this is how we're 7 going to - because we have to pipe all that in 8 for the cameras. You have to put a conduit in. 9 You can't have the wires exposed, into each 10 camera. And where are you going to actually 11 set the cameras up. So, that took, like about 12 a month for us to do that -. The first unit 13 took like a month. 14 MR. : And how many housing units 15 are at the MCC? 16 MR. : So, there's the female 17 unit, unit on the second floor. The WITSEC 18 Unit on three. 5 North, 5 South. 7 North, 7 19 South. 9 North, SHU, 10 South, 11 South, 11 20 North. So, 11 housing units. 21 MR. : And as of August, only one 22 housing unit was done at that point? 23 MR. : I don't really -. 24 Honestly, I don't remember. There's a lot 25 going on. 1 MR. 2 that point. I'm talking an idea at 67 3 MR. : Yeah. I think during that 4 time, if and came TDY, that's when 5 maybe one housing unit was totally piped in and 6 maybe ready to go, but even then, it wasn't 7 ready to go because you still needed a fiber 8 upgrade. We could have put it on single mode, 9 but it would have had issues. It wasn't -. 10 And then, we still didn't even have CAT-S. 11 There was a lost of stuff we just didn't have 12 to finishiiiiiiiiiade. 13 MR. : Okay. So, after Mr. 14 Epstein's death, did they bring in more 15 employees? 16 MR. : Yes, they brought a lot of 17 TDY help, and that's when a lot of stuff 18 happened. 19 MR. : And once they brought in 20 all the employees, how long did it take to 21 actually put the - forget about the cameras - 22 how long did it take to put the wiring in? 23 MR. : After Epstein's death - so 24 they were closing down the prison in August of, 25 well, we found out August-September. I was 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 68 still working, like, two or three times a week on overtime installing conduit, and running wires, and installing cameras. And even with all that said, there was still - I remember I went through all 11 housing units - I still didn't finish 11 South because that's open dorm. Unit Two never got finished and the sallyports never got finished. And some outside cameras. So, even after that happened, three years it still was a long undertaking. MR. : So, even after three years MR. : Yes. MR. -- it's still not completed? MR. : It wasn't completed when we left, and they shut down that jail. As far as the IPcE2f2la that was not completed, no. MR. IIIIIIIII: And that was just the wire itself that never got completed? MR. : No, no. Just hooking up cameras and the wiring. We put in -. Pretty much set up the infrastructure where each floor you could go to a hub to install cameras everywhere. EFTA00126352 69 1 MR. : Yeah. 2 MR. : But as far as finishing 3 the actual units, some of that was not 4 complete, no. 5 MR. : Okay. And do you recall 6 when the majority of the work was done? 7 MR. : I was, like, I was working 8 overtime all the time, so it was -. 9 MR. : Was it like a couple of 10 months? Three months, four months? 11 MR. : It was a couple of years. 12 I was still working on it -- 13 MR. : It was still ongoing? 14 MR. : -- yeah. It was still 15 ongoing. I was still working on it. It was 16 never really complete. Because COVID happened. 17 We had TDY help, and we had the gun thing, 18 where we had more people come in. So, there 19 was a lot of stuff that needed to -. 20 MR. : So, they were continuously 21 being peo le TDY to help with it? 22 23 24 actually continue doing work for the cameras, 25 or were they pulled out to do other things? MR. : Yes. MR. : Okay. And did the people 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 70 MR. : They were pulled out to do other thiiiiiiiiiiwhen it came to UI. MR. : What was SigNet's role in the installation? MR. : They were supposed to do a boatload of work, but we ended up doing a lot of the work inhouse. MR. That's (Indiscernible *00:45:54). MR. MR. where is that line? 243,000. MR. MR. MR. Yeah. Because -. Because over here on line, Look SigNet labor says : 43,000 yeah. : What was their job? : Their job. Okay, so the main thing vie were supposed to do was run pipe everywhere and like -- MR. : You guys were? Like, the MCC. MR. : -- right. MCC was 22 supposed to run the pipe everywhere, put the 23 box up, and they were just going to come in and 24 mount the cameras up and put it on the network, 25 but it was going to take too long, so we just 71 1 started doing everything in-house. We started 2 - well I started - just installing cameras, and 3 putting them up, and letting them start 4 recording. So, you have more view. Because 5 one camera we had on the unit, that wasn't 6 going to solve everything. 7 So, we had one camera on the unit, and 8 after, like, all this started happening and 9 especially, a staff member got assaulted. 10 That's why I added another camera on the 11 network, one on top of the bubble, so you could 12 see like - it's a 270 - so, you can see like 13 this way. You can pretty much see the whole 14 unit. 15 So, that's the best I could do at the time 16 for all of the housing units that only had one 17 camera. And then, eventually we started going 18 unit by unit and just installing 12 to 13, 19 however miiiiiiiiias on each unit. 20 MR. : Okay. And how long did 21 SigNet stay after Mr. Epstein's death? Did 22 they come and sta for a while -- 23 MR. : Oh, yeah, I wouldn't -- 24 MR. : -- to finish up 25 everything, or did they -? 72 1 MR. : No. After Mr. Epstein's 2 death, that's when they came and installed the 3 recorders. Because this was all on-hand, the 4 new recorders and the rack. But they had to 5 get the okay for them to - well, and I called 6 Justin, too, about this. I was, like, hey 7 we're on the list, but we weren't on the list 8 to get up raded. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : So, but then this 11 happened, so they came, like, the next day, and 12 I stayed there to -. 13 MR. : They stayed for a couple 14 weeks -? 15 MR. : Oh, just a couple days. 16 Just to get the new recorders in. 17 MR. : That's it? 18 MR. : Yeah, it was -. 19 MR. : They didn't help with the 20 cameras? 21 MR. : No. 22 MR. : So, you guys still 23 installed the cameras yourselves? 24 MR. : Yeah, we installed all the 25 cameras. EFTA00126353 73 1 MR. : ASAC , anything else 2 on that? 3 MR. : Yeah, a couple of questions. 4 So, based on what you just said, I just want to 5 make sure I'm clear. We talked about the fact 6 that if you had the new cameras in October of 7 2018, you would not have been able to install 8 them based on the lack of wiring. 9 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. : So, let me ask the same thing 11 about August 10th, the day of Epstein's death. 12 If you had received the cameras before that 13 day, would you have been able to install them 14 before that time? 15 MR. : No. 16 MR. : Okay. And, because it looks 17 like - yeah - the cameras I think finally came 18 in October 2019. 19 The second question is - let me get back 20 to my notes here - after Epstein's death, as 21 you just said, SigNet came in, they got the new 22 recorders up and running, and you were able to 23 have video coverage with the old cameras on the 24 old recorders, correct? 25 MR. : Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 74 MR. : So, it's not like the institution was without -- MR. : Cameras, no. MR. -- cameras, yeah, between -. MR. : The cameras were always working. That's the misinterpretation of the whole thin . MR. : Okay. MR. : The cameras were always working. MR. : All right. I just wanted to make sure to get that on the record as well. And the final question - I don't think, , you were going to ask this - is in regard to the other contract, Anixter, I believe is the company. MR. : Yes. MR. : (Indiscernible *00:49:10). MR. Indiscernible *00:49:11). MR. : I had a (Indiscernible *00:49:12). I'll show him the email also. MR. : Yeah. Perfect. Okay. Then I'll let MR. : No, no. You can ask the question. I'll give him the email, so, if you 75 1 want to refer to the email yourself -- 2 MR. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. -- I'll provide it to him. 4 MR. : Yeah, so basically ,my 5 question was going to be in regard to that 6 contract, do you know approximately when the 7 materials from that contract came in? 8 MR. : This was -. 9 MR. : And again, it looked to be 10 primarily wiring, from my understanding of the 11 order. 12 MR. : The cable. 13 MR. : Yeah. 14 MR. : Is this fiber? I don't -. 15 No, that came a little bit later, because we 16 didn't have fiber anything. 17 MR. : Okay. You didn't have 18 fiber -? 19 MR. : Maybe we had fiber, but 20 then we had to do another order for fiber 21 because the wanted to change stuff, so. 22 MR. : And this, is it the new 23 order for -? I want to read this just for the 24 record. This says -. This is from 25 Who's 76 1 MR. : Oh, that's the contracting 2 officer at the time. He took 3 (Phonetic Sp. *00:50:05) spot. He was, like, 4 the cashier. 5 MR. : He's a - it says Financial 6 Program S ecialist? 7 MR. : Yes, yes. 8 MR. : Okay. And it was sent to 9 a bunch of people includin 10 (Phonetic Sp. *00:S0:14), 11 yourself, and it says, subject is "Anxiter 12 TP12240 and SigNet tech." It says, "Good 13 afternoon, Ms. . After reviewing my cost 14 report for the Central Office samples, I went 15 ahead and asked , our Com Tech, on the 16 status of these particular POs, and he advised 17 me that they haven't been able to receive the 18 fiber cable, and without the cable, they can't 19 proceed with the camera systems." 20 MR. : Mm-hmm. 21 MR. : "He mentioned that the 22 company is requiring some sort of 23 documentation. He should be able to provide 24 you with the details." 25 MR. : Yeah, because I - like I EFTA00126354 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 77 said - I couldn't sign for anything. So, somebody else would have to sign it. I could advise as much as I can, but I can't sign it. MR. : So, you recall, that's not the new order, that was the previous? MR. : Yeah, probably the previous order. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. MR. : And fiber was never used? : Yes, it was used, yes. : Later on? : Later on, yes. : But not for the initial -. : The initial thing was to try to get - well, get the pipe in, and then do a fiber. MR. : Wasn't piping already there? So, told us that you guys had, like, the conduits laid in Building Four. MR. : I didn't know anything about that. MR. : Or was that ordered (Indiscernible *00:51:17)? MR. : That was maybe for something else, or maybe it was ordered. I don't know. 78 1 MR. : Where did you guys get the 2 conduits to run? 3 MR. : Mainly, I got most of my 4 conduit from Sheridan. That was the vendor I 5 used. 6 MR. : So, you guys bought it? 7 MR. : Yeah, locally, yes. 8 MR. : Locally. And so, you 9 bought the conduits from them. What about the 10 wiring itself? 11 MR. : That was from Anxiter. 12 Because that's the CAT-6 I use. I got 13 everythiniiiiiiiiiixter. 14 MR. : All right, so it was from 15 an outside vendor? 16 MR. : Yes, yes. 17 MR. : Okay, so there was actual 18 contracts for that. 19 MR. : Yes. For the fiber, yes. 20 The conduit, we just placed the order and just 21 bought conduit when we needed it, as much as we 22 needed to do a unit. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MR. And so, again, I think that 25 email was from April 2019, so it sounds like, 80 1 him, "I would like to mock-up a unit before we 2 bet started to see what we needed -- 3 MR. : Mm-hmm. 4 MR. : -- 20 dome IPs, five 180- 5 degree IP," five - I mean two PTC, dome IPs. 6 MR. : Yes. 7 MR. : Do you recognize this 8 email? 9 MR. : Yes. 10 MR. : And this is prior to them 11 shipping the cameras. This is just -. Do you 12 know why io ,a ed them for these cameras? 13 MR. : That's probably when we 14 finished the piping on our unit. So, it was 15 probably in March when we finished the piping. 16 MR. : Which unit was that? 17 MR. : 11 North, maybe. 18 MR. : So, this is the first unit 19 you -? 20 MR. : Yeah, we did, yes. 21 MR. : Okay, so this is the first 22 unit you're trying to get done, so -. But this 23 was before the cameras, anything came in? 24 MR. : Yes. 25 MR. : So, you started doing one 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 79 at least at that point, you guys had not received the Anixter materials. Do you have any idea when that finally showed up? MR. : It was so much stuff coming in, and like I said -- MR. : Okay. MR. -- we had very limited space, so. MR. : No, I understand. MR. : Mm-hmm. MR. HORNEE: I just wanted to see if you had a recollection. Thanks. MR. : I have -. MR. And that is all I have, MR. : No problem. I have another email here. It looks like it's a communication between yourself and Justin Houston on Frida March 22nd, and -? MR. : What year? 2000? MR. : 2019. MR. : Okay. Mm-hmm. MR. : And it says, "Good morning. Is it possible to overnight some cameras for MCC New York project?" And you were asking EFTA00126355 81 1 unit? 2 MR. : Yes, we did one unit, as 3 far as the piping and see where you're going to 4 put everyiiiiiiiii 5 MR. : So, this is basically, you 6 ordered these pieces just to see where 7 everythiniiiiiiiiiit? 8 MR. : Yes, and how would it work 9 on our system. 10 MR. : Okay, no problem. I'm 11 going to jump onto the next set of questions. 12 Is that o4'yl 13 MR. IIIII: Yeah, yeah, it's good with me. 14 I've got everything on the previous subject 15 that I needed. Thank you. 16 MR. : Okay. Now regarding the 17 NiceVision System, can you confirm that only 18 the SIS staff and electronics technicians had 19 the ability to replay, save and export videos, 20 or could certain other staff, like captains, 21 lieutenants, anyone else review or save 22 recorded foots a as well? 23 MR. : I think the captain has 24 authorization. Lieutenants? I'm not too sure 25 if they had authorization to pull video to -. 82 1 Because sometimes they'd have to send a packet 2 up, so I don't know if it was the SIS or the 3 lieutenants that saved video. Every 4 institution is kind of different when it comes 5 to who caiiiiiiiiie video. 6 MR. : Is there something called 7 SuperVision? 8 MR. : SuperVision, yes. 9 MR. : So, you would have to have 10 a specifiiiiiiiiiifor it? 11 MR. : No, SuperVision - yes, you 12 would have to log for - well, no. But 13 SuperVision is just mainly for passwords and 14 stuff. It's not really for anything else. 15 MR. : Oh, okay. But to view it, 16 but don'tliiiiiiii to log in to see? 17 MR. : Yeah, that's the regular 18 NiceVision -- 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : -- that's in control. You 21 just have to have access to Control. That's 22 the part of NiceVision. 23 MR. : And who had access to 24 that, jusiiiiiiiiitains and the Com Techs? 25 MR. : lust the Com Techs, yeah. 83 1 Maybe the lieutenants had it. I would have to 2 see the usernames. I'm pretty sure the 3 lieutenants should have had it. I'm not too 4 sure. 5 MR. : Okay. So, you're not 6 sure. You think maybe the captains, maybe the 7 lieutenants? 8 MR. : No. 9 MR. : Captains definitely? 10 MR. : The captain and SIS 11 definitely had the ability to pull video and 12 look at video. 13 MR. : And Com Techs. 14 MR. : And the Com Techs. The 15 lieutenant's office? Some of the lieutenants I 16 think had their own password to look at a 17 video, in case something happened. lust to 18 look at video. 19 MR. : Is that different 20 (Indiscernible *00:55:03) between like an 21 operations lieutenant and activity lieutenant? 22 MR. : Activity, yes. Depending 23 on - because you got your GS-11 and GS-9 24 lieutenant. 25 MR. : So, there's a possibility 84 1 the operations lieutenant had access? 2 MR. : Access, yes. 3 MR. : Okay. For the standard 4 NiceVision users - example, anyone outside the 5 use as identified in, like, let's say for the 6 people like the captain, lieutenant, things 7 like that - can you confirm that those users 8 were only able to view live video feeds? 9 MR. : Well, it's depending on 10 how you set up everybody's profile. Somebody's 11 profile you can - mainly SIS - they can pull 12 video under that profile. If you were a 13 lieutenant, you can probably just view live 14 viewing. Because there's - Nice comes and 15 pretty much sets that all up before you even 16 get -. 17 MR. : They can see live video? 18 MR. : Yeah. 19 MR. : Okay. Who had the ability 20 to go back? 21 MR. : I think maybe the 22 lieutenants, too, because if there's a fight or 23 something, and they needed to look back at 24 video, and if SIS wasn't there, they probably 25 would need access to look back. EFTA00126356 85 1 MR. : The captain? 2 MR. : Captain. 3 MR. : SIS? 4 MR. : SIS. 5 MR. : Com Techs? 6 MR. : Com Techs. 7 MR. : So, basically anyone who 8 had access should have technically have the 9 ability to review back. 10 MR. : To look back, yes. 11 MR. : What about Control? 12 Control just live view? 13 MR. : Live view, yes. And 14 that's something we added later. They never 15 had a password until - well, until we started 16 upgradingliiiiiiiiem. 17 MR. : Okay. Their screens just 18 stayed live -- 19 MR. : Live view. 20 MR. 21 it. 22 MR. : Yeah, they couldn't go 23 back or piiiiiiiiiing, no. 24 MR. : Okay. Anything on those 25 two questions? -- they couldn't mess with 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 86 MR. : Nope, I'm good. So, it sounds like there's just a couple of types of accounts. One is where you can rewind, save and export video, and the standard user account is just looking at the live feed. Is that correct? MR. MR. MR. MR. Yes. : Okay. Okay. Thank you. : Now for - because they're standard, as we mentioned, there's different users, right? Standard user and, like, the other type of users. : Mm-hmm. : Can they log in from any MR. ■ MR. computer, or -? MR. : Yes, any computer that has NiceVision on the computer. MR. : Oh, so it had to be pre- installed? MR. : Yes, it had to be pre- installed. And some computers just have control, they don't have access to SuperVision, or to, like, o back and play video. MR. : Yeah. 87 1 MR. : They just have the 2 control. But even in control sometimes, you 3 can play back video that's there with just the 4 controller setting. You don't need SuperVision 5 actually on that computer. If your log-in 6 permits you to o that far. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : And so, on that, Mr. 9 so there's just various desktops, if you will, 10 computers throughout the institution that had 11 NiceVision installed. 12 MR. : Yes. 13 MR. : And if you had an account, you 14 could get in there, correct? 15 MR. : Yes. 16 MR. Okay. And are there a lot of 17 shared con uters in the institution? 18 MR. : Yes, everybody shares. 19 MR. : Is that right? Like, like any 20 other institution? 21 MR. Yes. 22 MR. Yes. All right. And that's : 23 all I have on that. Thanks. 24 MR. : Did the facilities manager 25 also have keys to the dedicated room containing 88 1 the camera DVR s stem? 2 MR. : Not that I know of. No. 3 MR. : So, it's just the Coms 4 Tech? 5 MR. : Well, where the DVRs are, 6 SIS had Ilk I never had access to it. 7 MR. : Oh SIS, sorry, I said it 8 wrong. 9 MR. : Yeah, the SIS. 10 MR. : Only the SIS. 11 MR. : Yeah. 12 MR. : So, the facilities 13 managers 14 MR. : We didn't have keys to get 15 in that room. Because that was the SIS. I 16 mean that's the room we were talking way before 17 all this happened, that we needed to get this 18 fixed and it never did until after. 19 MR. : Lieutenant 20 mentioned that downstairs in your office, the 21 Coms Tech office was in the basement? 22 MR. : Yes. 23 MR. : Was there, like, a tower 24 in your office with, like, the recorders and 25 things like that in the office? EFTA00126357 89 90 1 MR. : No. 2 MR. : That gave you access to -? 3 MR. : No. I just had the live 4 feed from the old (Indiscernible *00:58:31), so 5 I could look at the live video, and at my 6 workstation I could look at -. I had a screen 7 in my sho where I could look at the live feed. 8 MR. : Yeah. 9 MR. : And then, I had my desktop 10 computer where I could log into Nice and look 11 at what's being recorded, or what's working on 12 the recorders. 13 MR. : But she mentioned like a 14 terminal itself. Like, all the recorders, DVRs 15 and stuff -. 16 MR. : It probably looked like -. 17 It was probably my -. That's where the public 18 address was. And later on, after the install, 19 I put in a separate, like I put a network in my 20 shop, but that was later on. The only thing 21 that was in there was the public address, my 22 live feediiiiiiiiiworkstation. 23 MR. : This is prior to the 24 August 10th, 2019? 25 MR. : Yes. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. : Okay. But there's no actual, like a DVR system, recorders, or anything like that? MR. : No, there was nothing in the basement, no. MR. : Okay. Anything else ASAC MR. : Yeah. I just want to double back to the key situation and the rooms there. So, the actual room with the DVR recorders, right? MR. : Yes. MR. : And so, you had a key to that and that's -. MR. : No. I never had a key to that until after all of this happened. After MR. : Okay, so the actual - so there are two rooms. MR. MR. Yes. . The way I understand it is there was the phone monitor room, and then within that room there's another locked room that had the DVRs, correct? MR. : Yes, yes. 91 1 MR. : Okay, so you didn't have a key 2 to either one of those rooms? 3 MR. IIIIIIIII: No. 4 MR. : Okay. Well, I'm glad I asked 5 because that was a little confusing. So, SIS 6 controlleiiiiiiiiis to both of those rooms? 7 MR. : Yes, because that was the 8 Evidence Room. And like I stated before, I was 9 told numerous times that we should have our own 10 key or get our stuff out of the Recorder Room. 11 MR. : Okay. 12 MR. : And that's how it is at 13 most institutions. lust the Recorder Room. 14 Nobody else but the Com Techs have that key or 15 should. MDC Brooklyn, I have the same problem 16 now because that room is - I don't mean to be 17 talking off - but they use that room for other 18 stuff, so now you have people that do have the 19 key. These two institutions are rare because 20 when I worked in Terre Haute, only the Com 21 Techs had the key to go in the Recorder Room. 22 Nobody else should have the key. 23 These two institutions for space or 24 whatever, they use an excuse and other people 25 have the key to go in the room and nobody 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 92 should have the key but the Com Techs. MR. : Okay. So, prior to August 10th, 201iiiiiiiiid not have a key to that -- MR. : No. We talked about it before -- MR. MR. to having a MR. MR. MR. MR. -- Recorder Room? -- about me getting access so I could get in that room. : But you never did. Okay, so -. : I never got it, no. : You didn't have one. I'm assuming the facilities manager didn't have one either then back then. MR. IIIIIIIII: No. MR. : Okay. And so, you said SIS controlled those keys. Obviously, the lieutenant had it. Do you know if the SIS Tech had the kiwi, MR. : The SIS Tech had the key and the lieutenant, yes. MR. IIIIIiiiikay. MR. : And whoever was in the Phone Monitoring Room or the Video Room. They would have the key to get in also. EFTA00126358 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 93 MR. : So, the phone monitor who is just a CO that's rotating -- MR. Yes. MR. or a staff member rotating : through there on a quarterly basis, they would be given that DVR Room key, as well? MR. : They would have the key to get in the room and the door is supposed to be locked, but usually, I get - if they're already - I couldiiiiiiiiiin the room in the back. MR. : The room in the back. Is that locked or is it just kept open? MR. : It probably should have been locked. Sometimes I went in there, it was locked, sometimes it was open. MR. : Okay, so, but for the phone monitor, they had a room, obviously to the Phone Monitor Room -- MR. : Yes. MR. -- but not the actual DVR Room MR. : I'm not sure if they had that key. MR. -- but you're just saying that sometimes -? 94 1 MR. : I don't know if they have 2 that key or not, but usually that room is open. 3 MR. Okay. 4 MR. : Because only the SIS would 5 have that ke 6 MR. IIIII: Okay. All right. Good. 7 Thanks a lot for clearing that up. And that's 8 all I had on the keys. I had one more 9 question, , if you were finished, before 10 we move on to the phone call. 11 MR. : Yes. 12 MR. : Yeah. 13 MR. The DVR and DR training, we 14 saw some 15 MR. : Yeah. 16 MR. -- which I think you -. 17 MR. : I never got training. 18 Everything_112.i inhouse. 19 MR. IIIII: Okay. You did not take that 20 training? 21 MR. : I've never taken a 22 training. Everything I've learned is on-the- 23 job. 24 MR. : Okay. And the version, like - 25 so, the main thing is, when I started as a Com 95 1 Tech, I started in Indiana - and the version of 2 NiceVision I had was, like, two generations 3 before the current version when I went to MCC. 4 So, when I came to MCC, I thought MCC was going 5 to have the updated version, but they have the 6 old stuff, and then I had to figure out how 7 that stuff worked. 8 MR. IIIIIii ikay. 9 MR. : So, I was learning 10 backwards.LIEtty much. 11 MR. IIIII: All right. Thanks. I know 12 you had provided us with an email showing, I 13 forget the date. It was a certain point in 14 time you had not had the training. I was just 15 wondering if that had changed at any time prior 16 to the incident? 17 MR. : Up to this day, I've still 18 had no training -- 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. -- from NiceVision. 21 MR. : All right. Well, hang in 22 there. M2y1)2_22_of these days. 23 MR. IIIIIIIII: I think I'm kind of an 24 expert now because -. 25 MR. : It sounds like it. All right, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and that's all I had. Thanks. MR. MR. MR. document. Do MR. MR. that is? MR. they probabl MR. MR. MR. 96 : And onto the last topic. : Mm-hmm. : I'm going to show you a Sou recognize this? Yes. : Can you explain to us what : This is the phone record made me pull. : Who made you pull? : The warden or SIS. : Okay. Can you read that? Like, can you explain to us the date of the call? MR. : Okay, so the date is 8/9. MR. : That's August 9th. MR. : August 9th, 2019. MR. : And the time of the call? MR. : Which is 1858:03. MR. : That would be 6:58 p.m. MR. : 58, yeah, and three seconds. And then -. MR. : The location. Would you be able to say where the location is? EFTA00126359 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. station. MR. where that is? MR. housing unit, SHU. MR. MR. MR. to pull that? MR. Epstein was given a phone call before all this happened. MR. : And either the warden or the SIS aiiiiiiiiito pull that? MR. : To see if actually he got a phone call. To make sure that they put him in there to see if he really got a phone call. MR. : And what was the number that was dialed out? MR. : The number that was dialed out, MR. last? MR. 97 : 6134. That's the caller : Do you know, offhand, : I believe that was a : Okay. : Yes. : And why did they ask you : Because they believed Mr. : And how long did that call : Oh, so the start time was 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 98 1858:03. They answered 19 seconds later, and then the call ended at 1919:10. MR. : And what system did you use to pull this up? MR. : That's the PBX Phone Switch, and that's pretty much anything going into the institution or coming out. That's the phone record. MR. when you went in MR. MR. : And based on your review this is the call? : That was the call, yes. : And you pulled this up, you handed it over to the SIS or to (Indiscernible *00:01:05:07)? MR. : Whoever wanted me to -. Like I said, there was a lot going on. I was trying to do a lot. MR. : And this was Epstein's - based on your recollection - this is Epstein's last -- MR. : Phone call. MR. : -- phone call, and that was provided to the DIG? MR. : Yes. MR. : Okay. Any questions? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ASAC MR. MR. MR. going to be more. MR. MR. 99 , do you have any other questions? : I do not. Thanks. : Well, that's it from us. : Yeah. I thought it was No. : Hey, it's because it is a lot. I know it's a lot. MR. I should MR. MR. 10th and MR. MR. to clarif MR. MR. the documents to initial -- MR. MR. MR. MR. front of you. : It's a little confusing. clarify the timing. : Yes. : We care only about August we : Prior. Yeah. : And thank God we were able : Okay. : Same thing as before. All showed you, we just need you Oh, okay. -- and date it. Okay. Yeah, let me put this in 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 100 MR. : Okay. MR. : lust initial and date anywhere on the document. MR. : Today is the -? MR. : 4/7. MR. : I'm bad with dates. I should be better. (Indiscernible *00:01:06iiiiiiiii MR. : Same thing. No, you're fine. MR. : Okay. MR. • That's part document. Mr. , thank you time to talk with us today. MR. : Yes. MR. : And we can't going to come back here with more MR. : Uh-oh. MR. : We might have more questions. MR. : You might have more questions. MR. : We'll reach out to you if we do. MR. : Okay. of the same for taking the say we're not questions. EFTA00126360 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 101 MR. : And we'll set up another interview. And thank you again. MR. : Uh-huh. MR. : This is Special Agent The time is 11:28 a.m., I'm concluding this interview. I'm stopping the recorder. 102 CERTIFICATE I hereby certify that the foregoing pages represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of Kim Simon, Transcriber EFTA00126361