EFTA00127124.pdf

1 2 3 4 DIGITALLY RECORDED 5 SWORN STATEMENT 6 OF 7 8 9 OIG CASE #: 10 2019-010614 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE 19 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 20 MARCH 16, 2022 21 22 23 24 25 RESOLUTE DOCUMENTATION SERVICES 28632 Roadside Drive, Suite 285 Agoura Hills, CA 91301 Phone: EFTA00127124 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 APPEARANCES: 2 3 OFFICE OF THE INSPECTOR GENERAL 4 BY: 5 BY: 6 7 8 WITNESS: 9 10 11 12 OTHER APPEARANCES: 13 NONE 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00127125 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : This is Special Agent 2 Today is March 16th, and the time is 3 9:55 a.m. The recorder is now on. My name is 4 I am a Special Agent with the 5 U.S. Department of Justice, Office of the 6 Inspector General, New York Field Office, and 7 these are my credentials. 8 MS. : Thank you, sir. 9 MR. : This interview with the 10 Federal Bureau of Prisons employee, Lieutenant 11 , is being conducted as part of 12 an official U.S. Department of Justice, Office 13 of the Inspector General investigation. 14 Today's date is March 16th, 2022. The 15 time is 9:56 a.m. This interview is being 16 conducted at the Federal Bureau of Prisons 17 Metropolitan Detention Center, Brooklyn, New 18 York, warden's conference room. 19 Also present are DOJ/OIG Assistant Special 20 Agent-in-Charge, , Lieutenant 21 This interview will be 22 recorded by me, Special Agent 23 Could everyone please themselves for the 24 record, and spell your last name? To start, 25 again, I am DOJ/OIG Special Agent EFTA00127126 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 2 MR. : Assistant Special Agent- 3 in-Charge with the DOJ/OIG 4 and these are my credentials. 5 MS. : Yes, sir. 6 MR. : Please identify yourself. 7 MS. : Lieutenant 8 . Last name 9 With the Federal Bureau of Prisons. 10 MR. : This is an official DOJ/OIG 11 investigation into events surrounding the death 12 of inmate Jeffrey Epstein, and you are being 13 asked to voluntarily provide answers to our 14 questions. Will you agree to a voluntary 15 interview with the DOJ/OIG? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : Please review DOJ/OIG form 18 11I-226/2. The form states, United States 19 Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector 20 General, Warnings and Assurances to Employee 21 Requested to Provide Information on a Voluntary 22 Basis. 23 "You are being asked to provide 24 information as part of an investigation being 25 conducted by the Office of the Inspector EFTA00127127 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 5 1 General. This investigation is being conducted 2 pursuant to the Inspector General Act of 1978, 3 as amended. 4 This investigation pertains to job 5 performance failure and security failure. This 6 is a voluntary interview. Accordingly, you do 7 not have to answer questions. No disciplinary 8 action will be taken against you if you choose 9 not to answer questions. 10 Any statement you furnish may be used as 11 evidence in any future criminal proceedings, or 12 agency disciplinary proceeding, or both." The 13 waiver states, "I understand the Warnings and 14 Assurances stated above, and I am willing to 15 make a statement and answer questions. 16 No promises or threats have been made to 17 me, and no pressure or coercion of any kind has 18 been used against me." Please review the form 19 and if you understand and agree, please sign 20 where it says Employee Signature. 21 MS. : Okay. 22 MR. : And print your name right 23 below that. 24 MS. : Below that. Okay. 25 MR. : I'm going to sign on the EFTA00127128 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 6 1 signature of the Office of Inspector General. 2 MR. : Okay. And this is 3 , and I will sign as the witness and 4 fill out the rest of the form. What is the 5 time, 6 MR. : It is 9:59 a.m. 7 MR. : 9:59 a.m., and the place 8 is the MDC Brooklyn. 9 MR. : Thank you. Before starting 10 the interview, I would like to place you under 11 oath. Lieutenant , can you please raise 12 your right hand? 13 MS. : Sure. 14 MR. : Do you swear to the tell the 15 truth and nothing but the truth during this 16 interview? 17 MS. : Yes, sir. 18 MR. : Thank you. You can put your 19 hand down. 20 MS. : Okay. 21 MR. : Please let me know if you 22 don't understand any questions, and I will try 23 to repeat it, or try to rephrase it for you. 24 MS. : Okay. 25 MR. : Thank you for taking the time EFTA00127129 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 7 1 to meet with us today. You previously told us 2 - we'll jump right into it - you met with us in 3 the past. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : And you previously told us 6 that you were off on August 9th, 2019. That 7 was a Friday. Do you recall? 8 MS. : On August 9th, 2019? I think 9 I was off on the Friday. I think my last day 10 of working was August 8th, I think it was. 11 MR. : August 8th. And do you 12 recall mentioning to us about an issue with the 13 camera -- 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : -- system? 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : And you had addressed that 18 situation with the communications technician 19 Hughwon 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : And you remember mentioned, 22 think the conversation was between - you want 23 to tell us a little bit about it again? Your 24 recollection of it. 25 MS. : Sure. I was - after I was EFTA00127130 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 reviewing the camera, I was looking for an 2 inmate that may have possibly departed the 3 building. So, I was, I went to the camera to 4 review the, to see if I can backtrack exactly 5 when he left the building. 6 I was present at the SIS office, with the 7 Associate Warden from MCC New York at the time, 8 which is AW , we both were looking at the 9 camera, and at that moment, I noticed I 10 couldn't rewind on the cameras. 11 So, I couldn't get any playback. At that 12 moment, we stopped, you know, like, searching 13 for the inmate because we couldn't go back any 14 further than the time we were at. And at that 15 time, I notified communications tech 16 I called him over the radio and let him 17 know, hey, I'm trying to rewind back the 18 cameras, and the cameras won't rewind. And he 19 said he will come and take a look at the system 20 and see what was going on. 21 And which he did. He did come down and he 22 looked at the system, and he said he has to do 23 overtime to fix the system. At that moment, 24 notified Captain . I apologized 25 that the cameras was down, and I also provided EFTA00127131 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 9 1 him with a memorandum, letting him know that 2 the camera system was down. 3 MR. : Okay. And we were able to -- 4 MR. : Before we get into that, 5 though -- 6 MS. : Okay. I'm sorry. 7 MR. : -- as far as the - so, 8 there was a discrepancy with what you said and 9 what AW said. Did you just rewind one 10 and that's not a big discrepancy - just, did 11 you rewind one video at that time, the one you 12 were trying to look at, or did you rewind 13 multiple, to determine that the -? 14 MS. : No. I went back on quite a 15 few. 16 MR. : And was that with AW 17 present? 18 MS. : I can't remember if she 19 stayed -- 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : -- while I was going back at 22 the cameras, to be honest with you. 23 MR. : Because she was saying -- 24 MS. : But I -. 25 MR. : -- she thought it was EFTA00127132 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 just one while she was there, so -- 2 MS. : Right. 3 MR. : -- if it's -. 4 MS. : I can't remember if she 5 stayed, but I did go back on several cameras on 6 the housing units and different areas, to see 7 can I -- 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. -- rewind. 10 MR. : So, you did, but she 11 possibly didn't. 12 MS. : Yes. Yes. 13 MR. : Okay. Great. 14 MR. : So, we were able to identify, 15 with your assistance, through this document was 16 provided to AW , and AW provided this 17 to the MCC attorneys, who in turn provided it 18 to the OIG. 19 MS. : Okay. 20 MR. : And this is the memo that was 21 written by you. I'm going to read it out for 22 the record. Up top it says, the United States 23 Government Memorandum. Federal Bureau of 24 Prisons. MCC New York. 150 Park Road New 25 York. The date is August 10th, 2019, from T. EFTA00127133 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 , SIS Lieutenant to J. , Captain. 2 MS. : Mm-hmm. 3 MR. : Subject is, "NiceVision 4 (Phonetic Sp. *00:07:26) camera system." "On 5 August 8th, 2019, at approximately 3:45 p.m., 6 while reviewing the Nice camera system, I 7 attempted to recover video footage from the 8 unit 5-South housing unit." 9 MS. : Yes. 10 MR. "At this time, I was unable 11 to recover any previous recordings from the 12 camera. This prompting me to review all of the 13 cameras. None of the cameras on the system 14 were able to record. 15 Therefore, I called communication 16 technician H. , via radio. At 17 approximately 4:00 p.m., responding to 18 the third floor phone monitoring room to check 19 the cameras, and notified me that the cameras 20 were not recording, and there was no way to 21 retrieve any video. stated he fixed the 22 camera system on Friday, August 9th, 2019, when 23 he arrived to work." 24 MS. : Mm-hmm. 25 MR. : Do you recall writing this EFTA00127134 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 memo? 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : Is this the memo? Okay. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : Just to clarify, the date 6 that you wrote the memo will be on August 10th? 7 MS. : Yes. 8 MR. : This would be the Saturday 9 following -- 10 MS. : Yes, sir. It would be the 11 Saturday. 12 MR. : And August 9th, you were off? 13 MS. : Yes. I'm almost sure I 14 wasn't there the Friday. I'm almost sure that 15 I wasn't in the building. 16 MR. : That last sentence, that's 17 the -- 18 MR. : Well, first, just to 19 clarify, the August 10th. So, previously, and 20 I think again, you just, I think you assumed 21 you wrote it on August 8th, but it looks like 22 you actually wrote it on the 10th. 23 MS. : I did assume that I wrote it 24 on the 8th. 25 MR. : All right. EFTA00127135 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : I did. 2 MR. : So, looking at that now, 3 do you know that it was now written on the 4 10th, on the Saturday, as opposed to on that 5 Thursday, when you first found out? 6 MS. : Yes. 7 MR. : Okay. So, that's not, 8 like, a misunderstanding? That's, now looking 9 at it, you're, like, oh, that's correct, you 10 actually wrote it on So, does that mean 11 that you didn't tell Captain until the 12 10th, as well? 13 MS. : No. I definitely told him 14 when the cameras was found, because he wouldn't 15 have had any footage, have anything occur. 16 MR. : Because when we spoke 17 with Captain , he didn't think he would 18 or he said he wasn't told until that Saturday. 19 He says he was never informed on that Thursday 20 or Friday. 21 So, we were just - now seeing that memo 22 we were trying to think, oh, maybe you were 23 just mistaken because you were very confident, 24 no, I told the Captain, and I provided him the 25 memo. So, seeing that, does that maybe make EFTA00127136 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 14 1 you think -? 2 MS. : No. I'm definitely positive 3 that I told him when the cameras was down 4 because we always do. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : Because if something 7 happened, we need to get footage at that 8 moment. 9 MR. : Uh-huh. 10 MS. : And I do recall him asking me 11 did I notify that the cameras was down, 12 and I told him I did 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. because was going 15 to stay to do overtime to fix them. 16 MR. : And you're positive that 17 that was on the 8th? 18 MS. : I'm positive -- 19 MR. : (Indiscernible 20 *00:10:03). 21 MS. : -- it was on the 8th. 22 MR. : Sorry. Go ahead. 23 MR. : Okay. And the last thing 24 says, " stated he fixed the camera system 25 on Friday, August 9th, when he arrived to EFTA00127137 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 15 1 work." Just to clarify, does that mean that he 2 - sorry, let me pause for a second. 3 UNKNOWN FEMALE: I'm sorry. Hi. Hi. How 4 are you? 5 MR. : We're on a recording, 6 just so you know. 7 MR. : So -. 8 UNKNOWN FEMALE: Oh, I'm sorry. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MR. : Just to clarify, the last 11 statement -- 12 MS. : Yes. 13 MR. -- does that mean that he 14 fixed, stated, now, did tell you that he 15 fixed the camera on August 9th? Or does it 16 mean that he told you that he will come in on 17 August 9th and fix the camera? 18 MS. : No. On the 8th, he told me 19 he was staying that evening to fix the cameras. 20 When seen me on the 10th, when I entered 21 the Special Housing Unit, he was in there. I 22 don't know if he was working, if he was doing 23 overtime. 24 But as soon as I entered the Special 25 Housing Unit, Mr. immediately approached EFTA00127138 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 me. Immediately approached me, and I said, 2 well, what happened with the camera system? 3 Because we had this conversation that you will 4 fix it on the 8th. And he said I fixed it 5 yesterday. And then, I'm here today, which is 6 the 10th, to finish up. 7 MR. : So, you mean, he started 8 fixing it yesterday? 9 MS. : So, I'm assuming that, I 10 don't know if he started, or if he fixed it, 11 but I could only go by what he told me. I 12 fixed the camera system, and I'm here to finish 13 it up. 14 MR. : Because when you - when 15 we spoke to you last, you had mentioned that 16 you approached him and said, you told me you 17 were going to fix this, and you said, and then 18 he told you at that time, yeah, I came in here 19 today -- 20 MS. : Right. 21 MR. -- to do it. 22 MS. : Right. So, I was under the 23 assumption he started on the 9th, and he still 24 had - whatever he had left to do on the 10th, 25 and I assume that that's what he was there to EFTA00127139 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 do. 2 MR. : Okay. So, not that he 3 fixed it on the 9th, but he started to fix it 4 on the 9th? 5 MS. : Right. I feel like he 6 started to fix it on the 9th, and he was there 7 to finish up, because then he was actually on 8 overtime in an attempt to, if I'm correct. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MS. : So, I assumed that he started 11 fixing it, and he was there to attempt to 12 finish it up. 13 MR. : So, should that last 14 sentence then read, he began fixing it on the 15 9th? Instead of he fixed it on the 9th? 16 MS. : It should, but again, I can't 17 recall. I don't want to say, you know, because 18 he told me he fixed the cameras. So, fixing to 19 me, I don't know the camera system. So -- 20 MR. : So, on the 9th, when they 21 knew that they couldn't actually get video, he 22 actually said, I did fix it yesterday? 23 MS. : No. On the 9th. I mean, 24 sorry, on the 10th. 25 MR. : That's what I mean, on EFTA00127140 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 the 10th. 2 MS. : When we arrived, and we 3 realized that there was no video over the 9th. 4 That's when he stated, I did overtime, I fixed 5 it yesterday. And then, we would, me and him 6 were having a conversation that it's no video. 7 You can't go back. And his thing was, I'm here 8 to finish up what I started yesterday. 9 MR. : Huh. 10 MS. : So, I don't 11 MR. : Was it -- 12 MS. -- know what he fixed, 13 because fixing to - I'm sorry - fixing can be 14 he bought all of the cameras back up, so the 15 cameras are online, but I don't know if they 16 were online to record, if that makes any sense. 17 MR. : And so, it's hard for us 18 to understand because if he's saying he fixed 19 it yesterday, and he's here to finish it today, 20 that sounds like it means he started fixing it 21 yesterday, and he's -- 22 MS. : Right. 23 MR. : -- but what his words 24 were, he fixed it yesterday? 25 MS. : His words was, I fixed it EFTA00127141 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 19 1 yesterday, and I'm here to finish up today. 2 Now, I don't know what the finish up part for 3 today was, to be honest with you. I'm assuming 4 the finishing up part was the to get them to 5 record, because they were blacked out. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. : Most of the cameras were 8 blacked out. 9 MR. : Oh, so, they were 10 actually blacked out? So -- 11 MS. : It was some cameras that were 12 blacked out where it was no screen at all. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : This was on August 8th? 15 MS. : On August 8th. 16 MR. : Okay. So, he actually 17 got the cameras to not be blacked out anymore, 18 so meaning, he fixed the cameras that were 19 blacked out, and on the 10th, he was going to 20 get them to start recording? 21 MS. : That's what I assume. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MS. : It's just an assumption 24 because when I got there the 10th, I didn't 25 physically go to see if the black out cameras EFTA00127142 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 20 1 was back online. 2 MR. : All right. So, when you 3 say fixed in that, you're talking about, he got 4 the cameras back up and running, but the 5 recording part was going to be fixed on the 6 10th? 7 MS. : That's my assumption. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MS. : It's just an assumption. 10 Because I really can't say what he did. I can 11 only say -- 12 MR. : Well, it -- 13 MS. -- what he said. 14 MR. : -- if he said to you, on 15 the 10th, I fixed them yesterday, did you ask 16 him then, well, then, why can't we get the 17 recordings? 18 MS. : I didn't. 19 MR. : No? 20 MS. : I didn't. 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. : Hmm-mm. 23 MR. : But now, your assumption 24 is, he fixed the cameras to get them back up 25 and running, and on the 10th, he was going to EFTA00127143 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 fix the recording part. 2 MS. : He was there to finish 3 whatever that fixing was, and I'm assuming that 4 it was the recording part because they still 5 weren't recording on the 10th. 6 MR. : Okay. But that was an 7 assumption on your end? 8 MS. : That was just an assumption 9 on my end. 10 MR. : And you didn't ask him 11 anything further on that? 12 MS. : I didn't ask him anything 13 else. 14 MR. : Okay. Sorry. 15 MS. : No, I didn't. 16 MR. : Go ahead. 17 MR. : Do you recall having a 18 conversation with him on the 10th about him not 19 having access to the communication room? 20 MS. : No. 21 MR. : On the 9th. Him not being 22 able to access the room because there was no 23 one there to open the door for him? 24 MS. : No. No. And he would be 25 able to have access to the room because all of EFTA00127144 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 22 1 the keys are located in the control center. 2 MR. : But the center control would 3 be locked up, right? 4 MS. : The control center, they 5 would - my keys would have been locked behind, 6 like, an emergency glass. But he's accessed my 7 keys in the past to fix the cameras. 8 MR. : How would he access them? 9 MS. : He would get permission from 10 the captain to get my keys because that's who 11 has to authorize the keys. 12 MR. : And he would go to the 13 captain, and the captain would authorize it, 14 and he could just take the keys? 15 MS. : I would hope so -- 16 MR. : Mm-hmm. 17 MS. : -- that he would get 18 authorization, but he's been there late nights 19 when there has been nobody in SIS, fixing the 20 cameras. 21 MR. : And you recall specific 22 situations where the captain has authorized him 23 to take your keys and go into the room? 24 MS. : I can't say I was present 25 when he authorized him to take the keys. I'm EFTA00127145 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 not going to say that I was present. But -- 2 MR. : But you recall -- 3 MS. -- I recall times when I told 4 the captain, hey, is going to stay late 5 because the camera system is not working, and 6 the captain say, okay, I'll be here. And he 7 would be and have access to that room. 8 MR. : Does that mean was 9 given the keys, or the captain would go in and 10 open the door for him? 11 MS. : That, I'm not sure. 12 MR. : Okay. 13 MS. : That, I'm not sure. 14 MR. : So, do you remember 15 around, approximately, what time it was on 16 August 8th that you learned that the cameras 17 were down? 18 MS. : It was late in the afternoon. 19 MR. : And you're positive it 20 was late in the afternoon? 21 MS. : It was in the afternoon. 22 MR. : And when you were 23 determining that these cameras were down, you 24 actually saw that they were -- because this is 25 the first we're hearing that there were blacked EFTA00127146 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 24 1 out cameras, all along we've been told they 2 were up, they just weren't recording, so there 3 was no way to tell that they were 4 MS. : No. You -- 5 MR. : -- down. 6 MS. : -- you had some cameras that 7 were offline completely, with an X, I don't 8 know if you've ever seen a camera system. 9 MR. : So, was it still review, 10 videoing? Like, could you see it, but there 11 was this X on it, or was it just all black? 12 MS. : No. You couldn't see. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MS. : You couldn't see. 15 MR. : And you're positive -- 16 MR. : So, seeing -. 17 MR. : -- about that? 18 MS. : I'm positive. 19 MR. : So -. 20 MR. : Okay. And then, so, 21 you're saying, and you're positive that it 22 happened late in the afternoon on August 8thf 23 MS. : Yes. 24 MR. : Because Captain 25 left early that day for a appointment EFTA00127147 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 25 1 on the 8th. So, that goes back to, are you 2 sure you told him on the 8th? Because he 3 wasn't there. 4 MS. : No. I spoke to Captain 5 about the cameras because he asked me, 6 was I going to fix the cameras? I know it 7 definitely was after the lunch, the lunch 8 break. So, between - it was afternoon time 9 between 12:00, 1:00. 10 MR. : All right. So, when you 11 say late afternoon, before, you're now thinking 12 it was actually early afternoon? 13 MS. : Well, that's late afternoon 14 for me when I get it -- 15 MR. : All right. 16 MS. : -- because I get in 5:00 in 17 the morning. So -- 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MS. -- I'm sorry. But it 20 definitely was somewhere after the inmates' 21 lunch. Between 12:00, 12:00 noon, I want to 22 say between 12:00 and 2:00. In that timeframe. 23 MR. : Okay. 24 MS. : I can't tell you exactly the 25 time. But it definitely was before I went EFTA00127148 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 home. 2 MR. : Okay. So, you're 3 positive they were blacked out, you're positive 4 you told Captain 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : Sorry. Go ahead, 7 MR. : How many screens would you 8 think were blacked out? 9 MS. : I don't even want to guess 10 because it was a lot of cameras up there, but 11 it was a good many. I know the housing units 12 were recording. The blacked-out cameras, it 13 was a lot of the corridors where we buzzed the 14 doors, and we opened, a lot of the corridors 15 were out. I do remember that. I do remember 16 the units were up. The housing units were up. 17 MR. : So, let's talk about that for 18 a second. I know it's important for the 19 (Indiscernible *00:19:18), is it for the 20 cameras to be working? 21 MS. : Very. 22 MR. : Now, we have two situations. 23 One is, the camera feed not working, which 24 would mean being able to view the cameras live. 25 And second is the actual recordings not EFTA00127149 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 working. 2 MS. : Okay. 3 MR. : So, how important is it for 4 the camera feed to be working at all times? 5 MS. : Very. 6 MR. : Compared - I know, let's 7 talk, separate that out from the actual 8 recordings working. How often do people go in 9 and view the live feeds? 10 MS. : It's my - this is just, 11 again, I would say it should have been daily 12 because since I've been at MCC New York, normal 13 practice was that the communication shop came 14 up every morning, went into that area where, I 15 don't know, like, the motherboard was at. 16 And they checked it. So, that's what I've 17 always was used to happening. And they will 18 say, hey, you got some cameras down, or A, B, 19 C, and D, because SIS uses the cameras a lot. 20 You know? 21 We going back for video. We looking for 22 fights. Like, you know, they're up on our 23 desks sometimes who we're just seeing who's 24 doing what. So, I would say daily that they 25 definitely should be monitored. EFTA00127150 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. And if the camera 2 feeds were not working, I understand the 3 recorder is not, that the recording is not 4 there. And we might have spoken about this in 5 the past, but should have gone home for 6 the day, or should the recordings, the feeds 7 been fixed immediately? 8 MS. : I kind of don't know the 9 process of fixing the feeds because I know it 10 was times he said he had to order new cameras. 11 So, I don't know if they were fixable where he 12 had to order new cameras, and had to wait for 13 cameras to come in. 14 So, I don't even, I don't even know, 15 honestly, if he would have been able to fix 16 those cameras that was out, or if he needed to 17 order new cameras to fix those cameras that was 18 out. 19 MR. : You mentioned there were 20 quite a few feeds out, right? 21 MS. : Yes. 22 MR. : Do you think it was possible 23 that he came in, he told you on the 10th that 24 he came in on the 9th and he fixed them. Is it 25 possible that he replaced all those cameras by EFTA00127151 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 the 9th? 2 MS. : Oh, I don't know. 3 MR. : Okay. Okay. 4 MS. : I don't know. 5 MR. : Any other follow up on that? 6 MR. : No. I mean, I don't 7 think he was replacing cameras. Are you 8 talking about, like, hard drives that go with 9 the cameras? 10 MR. : I think when she said about 11 the live feed -- 12 MR. : Yeah, yeah. 13 MR. : -- she meant in order to see 14 the live feed, he would have to replace some of 15 the cameras. 16 MR. : So, you think he actually 17 replaced the cameras 18 MS. : I don't know -- 19 MR. : -- or something? 20 MS. : -- if he would have to 21 replace them, but I know it was instances that 22 he would say, oh, I have to order new cameras. 23 So, I assume that those cameras are broke, and 24 they need to be replaced. 25 MR. : Okay. Okay. So, on the EFTA00127152 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 30 1 8th, though, you knew that there was actually 2 two problems. One, that they were blacked out; 3 and two, that they weren't recording. 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : And the ones that weren't 6 recording, were they the same ones that were 7 blacked out? 8 MS. : Nothing was recording. At 9 all. 10 MR. : Nothing. You couldn't 11 find anything recording? 12 MS. : No. I couldn't. 13 MR. : Because our understanding 14 was half of the cameras were recording and half 15 of them weren't. Just the ones you checked 16 weren't recording. 17 MS. : Just the ones I checked. And 18 normally, that would be the housing areas will 19 be where I'll target because that's where the 20 inmates at, and that's where -- 21 MR. : Okay. 22 MS. : -- unfortunately, the 23 incidents usually are. 24 MR. : And what - you said prior 25 - I just want to make sure we're clear - with EFTA00127153 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 31 1 the ones that were blacked out were not the 2 housing units? 3 MS. : No. I don't recall any 4 housing units being blocked out. 5 MR. : But the housing units 6 were the ones that weren't recording? 7 MS. : Right. I know they weren't 8 recording. 9 MR. : So, there was just a 10 problem with basically all of the cameras that 11 you knew of. 12 MS. : It seemed that way to me now. 13 Yes. 14 MR. : And did you know, did you 15 provide that information to either AW c. 16 Captain 17 MS. : No. Not about the whole 18 system because I kind of don't know how it 19 works. So, I said to hey, you got a 20 lot of areas that's blacked out. With a red X. 21 MR. : Okay. And then, so, 22 knowing all that information, what is it that 23 you told Captain 24 MS. : I just told him that I 25 couldn't get any - I couldn't go back. They EFTA00127154 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 weren't recording. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MS. : I didn't say the whole 4 institution is not recording because I didn't 5 know. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. : It's just the cameras that I 8 actually checked. 9 MR. : Okay. And did you tell 10 him if it was, like, more than one, though? Or 11 did you just say, hey, I can't get anything 12 recording, is coming to fix it? 13 MS. : I can't recall saying more 14 than one. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : I can't recall using those 17 words. 18 MR. : All right. And what 19 about AW ? Did you, then, fill her in 20 after you were reviewing the one camera? 21 MS. : No. No. She left. 22 MR. : She left -- 23 MS. : Yeah. 24 MR. : -- so, and you never 25 talked to her -- EFTA00127155 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : No. 2 MR. : -- about it again. 3 MS. : Hmm-mm. 4 MR. : All right. And did she 5 know the cameras were down, or did she just 6 know that you were having a problem rewinding? 7 MS. : I think she - to be honest 8 with you - she only knew that I had a problem 9 because I couldn't playback that one unit. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MS. : Because that's the unit that 12 we were looking at, which were the cadre units, 13 that they go home and go different places. 14 Because after we couldn't find that inmate, she 15 kind of just left. 16 MR. : Okay. And have you 17 spoken with AW since we last spoke? 18 MS. : No. 19 MR. : No? 20 MS. : No. 21 MR. : So, you didn't talk about 22 this matter with her? 23 MS. : No. I just received, I want 24 to say an email, or it might have been - I 25 can't even say it was after or before, but I EFTA00127156 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 34 1 did receive notification from her that she CC'd 2 me on an email about my documentation because 3 these were my documents that were in her 4 office. 5 So, she said, hey, I just want to let you 6 know that I gave them to the warden, whoever 7 the warden was at that time, that was acting. 8 And he stated he would give them to legal. 9 MR. : Okay. 10 MS. : And that was it. 11 MR. : And that's regarding your 12 memo that we have right here? 13 MS. : All of my documents. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MS. : Yeah. 16 MR. : All right. 17 MS. : This would have been included 18 19 MR. : And what about -- 20 MS. in a pile of documents. 21 MR. : -- and what about Captain 22 ? Have you spoken with him since we last 23 spoke? 24 MS. : No. 25 MR. : Not at all? EFTA00127157 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : I haven't seen him. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MR. : Do you recall the video that 4 you were trying to pull up on August 8th? When 5 you were trying to rewind. Were you trying to 6 rewind the video for just that day, or from a 7 previous day? 8 MS. : I was trying to go back to 9 that day, at that (Indiscernible *00:25:33) 10 MR. : So, for August 8th. 11 MS. -- yes. 12 MR. : Not August 7th, 6th, or 13 anything like that. 14 MS. : No. 15 MR. : Okay. 16 MS. : No. 17 MR. : And you said it was 5- 18 South? 19 MS. : It was 5 -. It was, I think 20 we were looking at 5-South and the 5-South 21 sally port. That may be a little foreign. 22 It's like the hallway. 23 MR. : Yeah, sure. 24 MS. : In between the two doors. 25 MR. : That's where the elevator is. EFTA00127158 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : And what 2 MS. : Right. 3 MR. : And what is 5-South? 4 MS. : 5-South was the cadre unit. 5 MR. : The cadre unit. 6 MS. : Yes. 7 MR. : All right. And can you 8 just explain, briefly, what does the cadre unit 9 mean? 10 MS. : The cadre units are inmates 11 that was designated to MCC New York. So, they 12 was very in custody inmates, out custody 13 inmates, community custody inmates, but their 14 designation was to MCC New York. 15 MR. : So, does that mean 16 general population, or is it something 17 different than general population? 18 MS. : No. They're general 19 population. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : Yes. They call them the work 22 cadres. So, they work around the building, in 23 different departments. 24 MR. : So, I'm going to clarify that 25 a little bit. A majority of MCC New York, are EFTA00127159 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 the inmates awaiting trial? 2 MS. : Yes. Pre-trial. 3 MR. : Pre-trial. Cadre unit, are 4 those inmates already sentenced? 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : So, these are post-sentence 7 inmates. They are assigned to, already 8 sentenced, and they're 9 MS. : Okay. Assigned to MCC New 10 York. 11 MR. -- yeah. And now, these 12 cadre inmates, do they have any special 13 privileges? 14 MS. : I wouldn't say special 15 privileges, but some do. Meaning, they can 16 work. 17 MR. : Work. And what kind of work 18 do they do? 19 MS. : You have some on the electric 20 detail. Some on the plumbing detail. You have 21 the outside detail, which was the day and 22 (Indiscernible *00:27:01) detail. 23 MR. : So, they get to move around a 24 little bit? 25 MS. : They move around. EFTA00127160 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. 2 MR. : Are they known as 3 orderlies? 4 MS. : Well, any inmate that work, 5 even pre-trial inmates who have a job is known 6 as orderlies. 7 MR. : Okay. 8 MR. : But cadres, do they get to 9 leave the facility? 10 MS. : Some do. 11 MR. : Some. They get to leave MCC, 12 some work as town drivers? 13 MS. : Right. 14 MR. : They go to the warehouse. 15 Come back. 16 MS. : Yes. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. : Some do. Yes. 19 MR. : So, they are, like, low 20 risk inmates? 21 MS. : They're supposed to be, yes. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MS. : Yes. 24 MR. : But these are sentenced 25 inmates that have permanent - at that point, EFTA00127161 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 they were assigned to MCC. 2 MS. : Yes. 3 MR. : Okay. 4 MR. : Okay. 5 MR. : Anything else on -? 6 MR. : I guess the last question 7 I would say is, do you know what it was you 8 were trying to watch? Like, what happened that 9 caused you to try to watch the 5-South video? 10 MS. : I do. I can't recall the 11 inmate's name. We were looking for him because 12 we suspected that he was involved with an 13 incident that OIG Agent (Phonetic Sp. 14 *00:28:00) was looking into, and myself. 15 So, this inmate name kept coming up. 16 can't remember if it was phones or, you know, 17 narcotics. I can't remember. But his name 18 kept coming up. And me and stated, 19 okay, we're going to talk to this inmate 20 together, to see if he had any role in what we 21 were looking at. 22 And me and talked, then I said, this, 23 , this inmate got released. And that's 24 what made me go and try to see exactly when he 25 got released, you know, let me track what time EFTA00127162 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 40 1 he got released, because me and had even 2 spoke about going to - if he got released to 3 the halfway house - we were going to go to the 4 halfway house and speak to him. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : Okay. I'm going to move on. 7 MR. : Go ahead. 8 MR. : I have a document here. 9 MS. : Yeah. 10 MR. : This states, for the record, 11 number 104, timestamp 9:00, August 2019. Can 12 you let us know what we're looking at? 13 MS. : I don't know what this is. 14 So, this was provided by , from the com 15 shop. 16 MR. : Okay. So, provided 17 this to who? 18 MS. : To me. 19 MR. : To you? 20 MS. : And I turned this over to OIG 21 because they requested the call. The call 22 logs. 23 MR. : So, is that -- 24 MS. : So, this is the call log. 25 But this is foreign except for the date and the EFTA00127163 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 end date. 2 MR. : So, you wouldn't understand, 3 you wouldn't know what this is about? 4 MS. : I just know it's a call log. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : Because this is what he gave 7 me. So, I'm assuming this is the date somebody 8 made a call. Again, the end and time. What 9 time the other person answered. Just from 10 looking up here, at the top of it. Everything 11 down here, I don't know. 12 MR. : Now, did give that to 13 you based on a request that you asked him for? 14 Did you ask him for a call, a specific call 15 log? 16 MS. : I want to -. 17 MR. : Well, read the date and 18 time, and then -- 19 MR. : So -- 20 MR. : -- maybe that will help. 21 MR. : -- the start date on this is 22 August 9th. 23 MS. : Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : 2019. The answer date is 25 August 9th, 2019. EFTA00127164 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Mm-hmm. 2 MR. : And the end date is August 3 9th, 2019 So, it's the same date, right? And 4 the start time is 18:58:03. So, that means 5 6:58 p.m. 6 MS. : Okay. 7 MR. : The answer time is 6:58:22. 8 So, that means -- 9 MS. : Mm-hmm. 10 MR. -- 6:58 p.m. And the end 11 time is 19:19. That's 7:59 p.m. 12 MS. : Okay. Yeah. 13 MR. : So, the call, it seems that 14 it lasted about 21 minutes. 15 MS. : About 20 minutes. Yeah. 16 Again, whatever call logs that I asked him for 17 was call logs that was asked from OIG of me, 18 hey, I need the call log. They asked for it. 19 I know they asked for the Special Housing 20 Units. How many phones were up there. And -- 21 MR. : And by looking at that, 22 are you able to tell if that was a Special 23 Housing Unit call? 24 MS. : I don't know. 25 MR. : Does it show anything on EFTA00127165 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 there, 2 MR. : There is a caller station, 3 there is numbers and everything, but it doesn't 4 state specifically. 5 MR. : Okay. Do you know 6 anybody that made a call from the MCC on August 7 9th, 2019, at approximately 7:00 p.m. that 8 would be of interest for people that were 9 investigating? 10 MS. : I don't know. 11 MR. : So, do you know anything 12 about Epstein calling and placing a telephone 13 call from the SHU on August 9th, 2019? 14 MS. : Only word of mouth, that I 15 heard when I got there on the 10th, that he - I 16 want to say the unit manager gave him a call - 17 because that was the discussion - the unit 18 manager gave him a call to his mother. 19 And at that point, they were saying his 20 mother was dead. And I don't know if this is 21 the call, because I don't know how to read it, 22 but I did hear that part of it. 23 MR. : And do you remember if 24 you asked for that specific information? 25 Did Epstein place a call? EFTA00127166 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 44 1 MS. : I wouldn't have asked him did 2 he place a call? I would have asked him 3 whatever phone numbers that OIG asked me for. 4 MR. : Okay. Now, as far as the 5 information that you just said, which unit 6 manager provided who a call? 7 MS. : It's my understanding that 8 Unit Manager Bullock gave Mr. Epstein the call. 9 MR. : Okay. Sometime on, in 10 the night of August 9th, 2019? 11 MS. Mm-hmm. That's my 12 understanding. But that was just hearsay. 13 People speaking. I didn't witness him give a 14 phone call. No. 15 MR. : But you don't know if 16 that's the call log for him? 17 MS. : I have no idea. 18 MR. : Okay. 19 MR. : And based on that, if this 20 was the request for that, if this was the 21 request for that call log, and this was what 22 the communications tech pulled up, the call log 23 that he pulled up, and this is for the SHU, 24 would this be the phone number listed on the 25 call log? EFTA00127167 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Oh, I don't know. 2 MR. : Okay. 3 MS. : Because I wouldn't have had 4 the number. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MR. : And we'll just have her 7 initial and date both of these. 8 MR. : No problem. On both these 9 documents, just initial and date -- 10 MR. : So 11 MS. : Okay. 12 MR. -- not attesting to it, it's 13 just that, these are the documents we showed 14 you. 15 MS. : No problem. 16 MR. : And one is the memo from 17 August 10th, and the other is the call log from 18 August 9th. 19 MS. : Okay. 20 MR. : And again, it's 3/16/22. 21 MS. : Yes, sir. 22 MR. : Do you know what 23 Acknowledgement of Inmate form BP-408 is? 24 MS. : BP-408? Oh, I've been out a 25 while. BP-408. I'm not sure what -. EFTA00127168 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Give her some 2 MS. could you 3 MR. : -- yeah. Give her some 4 context to that. 5 MR. : I'm going to read. 6 MR. : So, when someone gets a 7 pack and PIN, or they're able to use the inmate 8 telephone system, would they have to sign 9 something called an Acknowledgement of Inmate 10 form, BP-408? 11 MS. : I'm not sure. Because I've 12 never dealt with their pack and PIN numbers. 13 MR. : So, I'm going to read you 14 this. I'm just going to read you this, so that 15 you can kind of get a 16 MR. : It's going to be separate. 17 MR. : -- full. Well, and you 18 go. Because you 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MR. : -- probably understand 21 more. Go ahead. 22 MR. : So, do you know anything 23 about pack and PINs? When an inmate is 24 assigned pack and PINs? 25 MS. : Vaguely. A little about the EFTA00127169 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 pack and PIN numbers. 2 MR. : Okay. So, do you know if 3 Epstein was assigned a pack and PIN? 4 MS. : Oh, I don't know. 5 MR. : Okay. Well, our 6 understanding was Epstein needed to be assigned 7 a pack and PIN, and because he was at attorney 8 conference all the time, he was never available 9 for a pack and PIN to be set up for him. 10 And what we're trying to find out is, if 11 Epstein was ever assigned a pack and PIN, and 12 if he was assigned a pack and PIN, did he ever 13 sign a form called Acknowledgement of Inmate 14 form, BP-408? 15 MS. : Oh, I don't know. 16 MR. : What about if an inmate 17 is afforded a legal call? Do they have to sign 18 a form? 19 MS. : Normally, they request the 20 legal call. This is my knowledge of being a 21 lieutenant. They put a cop-out into their unit 22 team, requesting that a legal phone call, and 23 somebody from their unit team will come up with 24 a logbook, I guess after they verify that that 25 is their attorneys number, and they tell the EFTA00127170 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 48 1 attorney, okay, we're going to set up this 2 phone call for 10:00. Then they will go up and 3 give the phone call to the inmate, and log it 4 in the legal call back. 5 MR. : But you're not aware of 6 any kind of form that they need to sign as 7 opposed to just the logbook? 8 MS. : I'm not sure because that 9 would be unit team. 10 MR. : Okay. But you're not - 11 you don't remember a BP-408, an Acknowledgement 12 of Inmate form, or what it is? 13 MS. : No. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MR. : Where would we find that? If 16 that's a form that we're looking for, inmate 17 had signed something like that, where would 18 that be kept? 19 MS. : I would think it would be in 20 the inmate's central file. 21 MR. : And that would be in the 22 central office? 23 MS. : And I would think the unit 24 team members would have the central file in 25 their area. EFTA00127171 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 49 1 MR. : Okay. And if the inmate was 2 in the SHU, it would be in the SHU? 3 MS. : It would still be with the 4 unit team that the inmate was assigned to. 5 MR. : Okay. And now, I'm going to 6 read you a paragraph here. This is about 7 federal regulations. 8 MS. : Okay. 9 MR. "Federal regulations require 10 that the warden of each BOP institution 11 establish procedures to monitor inmate 12 telephone conversations, which is done to 13 preserve the security and orderly managing of 14 the institution, and to protect the public. 15 For safety and security reasons, BOP 16 policy requires that all inmate telephone calls 17 be made through the inmate telephone system, 18 ITS. BOP policy recognizes that on rare 19 occasion, in times of crisis, inmates may be 20 permitted to make a telephone call outside of 21 the ITS. 22 In such circumstance, the telephone must 23 be placed in a secure area; example, in a 24 locked office, and must be set to record 25 telephone calls. Additionally, the staff EFTA00127172 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 50 1 member coordinating the call must notify the 2 BOP Special Investigative Services (SIS) via 3 email, providing the inmates' name and register 4 number, the date and time of the call, the 5 number and name of the individual called, and 6 the reason for the call. SIS must enter this 7 information into the telephone recording system 8 within seven days." 9 MS. : Okay. 10 MR. : Do you recall if you ever got 11 notified about a call like this for Mr. 12 Epstein? 13 MS. : No. 14 MR. : Okay. Was it standard 15 practice at MCC if an inmate was ever afforded 16 a call like this, would you ever get an email? 17 MS. : No. I've never gotten an 18 email. 19 MR. : Were you ever been aware 20 of this requirement? 21 MS. : No. 22 MR. : Were you ever aware that 23 inmates were given calls like this where a unit 24 team member, let's just say if an inmate wasn't 25 given a pack and PIN, a unit team member would EFTA00127173 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 51 1 sometimes plug a line in to the legal line, and 2 would let them make phone calls to personal 3 MS. : No. 4 MR. : -- family members? 5 MS. : I didn't know. 6 MR. : Do you know if that was 7 against policy if they did something like that? 8 MS. : In my opinion, yes, it's 9 against policy because the legal line is for a 10 legal phone call. 11 MR. : And what happens if they were 12 to allowed to do something like that? 13 MS. : What happens to who? 14 MR. : No. What happens if an 15 inmate is allowed to -? What is a call like 16 that, if they have to make a call to a 17 personal, a personal call, why does the call 18 have to be made on a recorded line? 19 MS. : Because it can be a safety 20 issue if they have an unmonitored call, because 21 there's no way for us to go back and listen to 22 the call. It could have been a threat. You 23 know, it could have been something that could 24 have just been a catastrophe, and that you have 25 no way of knowing. EFTA00127174 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 That's why we have that ICS system in 2 place, so we can go back and listen to the 3 calls, and we can identify anything that was 4 abnormal. 5 MR. : And I know this is Monday 6 morning quarterbacking the situation, but a 7 situation like this, with Mr. Epstein, the fact 8 of the circumstances that surrounded what 9 happened between August 9th and 10th, looking 10 back that he was allowed to make a phone call 11 like that on August 9th, should that have been 12 allowed? 13 MS. : No. In my opinion, no. 14 MR. : Why not? 15 MS. : It goes back to what I 16 stated. We have no way of monitoring those 17 phone calls. So, we don't know if - you know, 18 just an example - if I may, we don't know if it 19 was to intimidate a witness. 20 We just don't know the context of the call 21 because we can't go back to listen. We don't 22 even know in the call if he was saying, hey, 23 I'm feeling like this, because you have no way 24 of going back and listening to that call. 25 MR. : And being that someone, that EFTA00127175 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 53 1 he was allowed to make that phone call, should 2 someone have been standing there with him, 3 monitoring that phone call? 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : Okay. And should that have 6 been logged up? Should that have been a log? 7 That a call like that was made. 8 MS. : Yes. 9 MR. : Okay. Anything else on that? 10 MR. : You just have a question 11 here. On that last note. 12 MR. : The call log? 13 MR. : This one. Sorry. 14 MR. : Oh. I think she answered 15 that. 16 MR. : Okay. 17 MR. : You mentioned before the call 18 log that we showed you, that's the call log -- 19 MR. : Oh, that's the log -- 20 MR. : -- that's the -- 21 MR. : I thought you were 22 talking about this other log that you just 23 mentioned. 24 MR. : No, no, no. 25 MR. : I'm sorry. EFTA00127176 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 54 1 MR. : That call log that you said 2 that -- 3 MR. : No. Disregard. 4 MR. okay. 5 MR. : You can move on. 6 MR. : No problem. Now, we're 7 moving on to August 10th. 8 MR. : Okay. 9 MR. : Would there be a record of 10 the exact time Correctional Officer Tova Noel 11 pushed the emergency button on her radio? Like 12 -? 13 MS. : I'm not too sure if -. 14 know when you key up the radios, they do 15 register on the control panels. In the control 16 center. But I don't know if that's recorded, 17 where they can run, like, that's how they ran 18 the telephone log. I'm not too sure. Only Mr. 19 Daniels will know that because he's a com shop. 20 MR. : So, he would be able to pull 21 it up? 22 MR. : Maybe. He would be the 23 only one -- 24 MS. : He would be the only one -- 25 MR. : -- to answer. EFTA00127177 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : -- that -- 2 MR. : Could answer it. 3 MS. : -- would know if you can go 4 back and pull those timeframes up. 5 MR. : So, just to run through the 6 day. Let's just say Michael Thomas, Tova Noel, 7 the situation, they're up there on the tier, 8 and they discover Epstein. 9 MS. : Yes. 10 MR. : And they wanted to hit the - 11 they wanted to notify control, hey, there is an 12 emergency. How would they notify control? 13 MS. : They should hit their body 14 alarms which -- 15 MR. : Which is located where? 16 MS. : -- on their radio. 17 MR. : So, they both have a radio, 18 or just one person? 19 MS. : Up in the SHU, they both 20 should have radios. But I don't know if they 21 both had radios. But I know a body alarm is 22 assigned to the Special Housing. 23 MR. : It's assigned. And the body 24 alarm is where? 25 MS. : The body alarm, one of the EFTA00127178 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 56 1 officers have to carry it. I'm not too sure if 2 they all do. I really can't remember. But I - 3 4 MR. : Is it separate from the 5 radio? 6 MS. : -- no. 7 MR. : Or no, no. It's a button on 8 the radio -- 9 MS. : It's just a button on the 10 radio. 11 MR. : -- okay. 12 MS. : And once you hit that body 13 alarm, it goes throughout the whole building, 14 on everybody's radio. 15 MR. : And at least one officer in 16 the SHU is assigned that? 17 MS. : At least one officer should 18 have the body alarm in the SHU. 19 MR. : So, it's just a special 20 radio that has an alarm? 21 MS. : Yes. 22 MR. : But it's called the body 23 alarm? 24 MS. : They're called body alarms. 25 MR. : Okay. EFTA00127179 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 57 1 MR. : What does it look like on the 2 radio? 3 MS. : It's an orange button. 4 Orange or red button. 5 MR. : And when they hit it, 6 everyone gets notified? 7 MS. : It goes across all the 8 radios. 9 MR. : And what is normal practice? 10 Like, once it hits, what transpires? 11 MS. : Whoever is in the building 12 responds to that area. When you hit that body 13 alarm, it pops on the control panel, and a big 14 screen, and we can see exactly where it's 15 coming from. 16 MR. : Okay. And is that the 17 control officer? 18 MS. : The control officer will call 19 it. You know, we have a body alarm in the 20 Special Housing Unit. 21 MR. : And who is supposed to 22 respond? 23 MS. : Normally, everybody who has a 24 radio and who is not supervising inmates 25 respond to that area. EFTA00127180 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Every supervisor? 2 MS. : If they're in the building, 3 they should be. 4 MR. : What about if you are 5 assigned the housing unit? Are you allowed to 6 leave the housing unit? 7 MS. : No. 8 MR. : No. 9 MS. : You're not supposed to, no. 10 MR. : But if, let's say you're 11 internal and you're moving around, you're 12 supposed to respond? 13 MS. : Yes. 14 MR. : So, as long as you're not 15 assigned to a housing unit, and you're just 16 there in the facility, you're supposed to 17 respond? 18 MS. : Right. 19 MR. : Is there certain officer 20 that's assigned to respond for emergencies. 21 MS. : No. There is no specific 22 assignment. 23 MR. : Okay. What is the average 24 time it takes for additional correctional 25 officers to respond in a case of emergency? EFTA00127181 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 59 1 MS. : Normally, within two to three 2 minutes. 3 MR. : But it's not, like, oh, yeah, 4 and you ring the, you put the - or you press 5 the body alarm, it's like a matter of seconds, 6 oh, yeah, someone is there, it takes about two 7 to three minutes on average? 8 MS. : Yes. If somebody is there in 9 a matter of seconds, that mean they're right 10 outside the door when that alarm went out, but 11 most of the time, we have to get elevators, we 12 have to run up the stairs. So, we have to get 13 to the area. 14 MR. : Okay. Is there one officer 15 controlling the elevator? 16 MS. : The control center is 17 controlling the elevator. 18 MR. : So, that control officer 19 would have to know where the officers 20 MS. : To pick -- 21 MR. are going? 22 MS. everybody up. Because 23 everybody will come across the radio. Hey, 24 pick me up on two. Pick me up on three. Pick 25 me up on four. So, that officer has to start EFTA00127182 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 picking up from every floor. 2 MR. : Do they keep a log of 3 everything that transpires when an emergency 4 happens? 5 MS. : What do you mean, a log of 6 everything -- 7 MR. : Let's just say -- 8 MS. -- that transpires? 9 MR. -- like, the stuff that comes 10 over the radio. Like, the calls that come 11 over, and when a body alarm is hit, do they 12 keep track of, hey, this call came over the 13 call, or this person responded. 14 MS. : The practice should be, once 15 the body alarm goes off, that control center 16 has a logbook, as well. So, the control center 17 officer should have that in their logbook. 18 7:15, a body alarm went off in the Special 19 Housing Unit, for example. 20 MR. : Okay. 21 MS. : And if I was the responding 22 lieutenant, and I cleared that body alarm, 23 let's say at 7:20, that logbook should also 24 say, 7:20, body alarm cleared by Lieutenant 25 EFTA00127183 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 61 1 MR. : Okay. And this logbook, it's 2 called the control officer logbook? 3 MS. : Yes. 4 MR. : Okay. Okay. 5 MR. : How often do body alarms 6 go off? Or would they, around that time? Is 7 that, like, a daily occurrence, or is it 8 weekly, or -? 9 MS. : I want to say almost daily, 10 it's body alarms. 11 MR. : Okay. So, people are 12 very familiar with what to do when a body alarm 13 14 MS. : Yes. 15 MR. : -- goes off. Now, just a 16 quick question. If an operations lieutenant is 17 relieved at, like, 6:00 a.m., let's say, or 18 prior, the alarm goes off at 6:33, but that 19 operations lieutenant is still in the building, 20 working on documentation, would that operations 21 lieutenant, even though they've been relieved, 22 would they be required to respond -- 23 MS. : They should. Yes. 24 MR. : -- they should still 25 respond? EFTA00127184 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Yes. 2 MR. : So, even though they've 3 been relieved for their shift -- 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : should -. 6 MS. : You still should respond 7 because you're physically still in the 8 building. 9 MR. : Okay. And would that 10 operations lieutenant have given back their 11 radio, though, already if they were already 12 relieved? Or would they still have a radio on 13 them? 14 MS. : If they're sitting in the 15 office, well, let me backtrack so I don't seem 16 confusing. The operations lieutenant that was 17 relieved would turn the radio up to the 18 relieving lieutenant. 19 So, we're not assigned individual radios. 20 You have one assigned for operations 21 lieutenant, and one assigned for activities 22 lieutenant. So, if I relieve you, , I'm 23 going to give you - you're going to give me 24 your radio and your keys. 25 MR. : So, if that person was EFTA00127185 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 63 1 relieved, and then is working on documentation, 2 how would they know that a body alarm was 3 activated? 4 MS. : Normally, you hear it. 5 MR. : Oh, so, everyone could 6 hear it? 7 MS. : Yeah. You hear it. 8 MR. : Okay. So, like, because 9 it's a loud sound? 10 MS. : Yes. 11 MR. : Does it go throughout the 12 institution? Or just on the radios? 13 MS. : It just go on the radios, but 14 it's really loud. So, even if somebody is 15 using the bathroom, if they have their radio, 16 you hear it. 17 MR. : Okay. 18 MS. : You hear it. 19 MR. : Like, as in, like, if a 20 radio is going off outside of the bathroom, 21 even if they don't have their radio in the 22 bathroom, is that what you mean? 23 MS. : You'll hear it. 24 MR. : Okay. So -- 25 MS. : You'll hear it. EFTA00127186 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 64 1 MR. : -- the person using the 2 restroom would hear a radio that was outside of 3 the restroom, is what you mean? 4 MS. : Yes. 5 MR. : Okay. 6 MS. : And then, the lieutenant's 7 office, the way it's set up in MCC New York, is 8 we also have the Nice camera system set up with 9 big screen TVs, as such. So, if you are there 10 and you see people running, your first instinct 11 going to be, what's going on? Everybody is 12 running. 13 MR. : Okay. 14 MR. : So, if you're still in the 15 office, and -- 16 MS. : If you're in the office. 17 MR. : -- office, and you're still 18 doing work -- 19 MS. : Mm-hmm. 20 MR. : -- you should be able to see. 21 MS. : Yes, because I think it's 22 about three or four big screen TVs in there. 23 MR. : Now, is it a requirement 24 that they respond, or just they should respond? 25 MS. : I don't, I can't recall a EFTA00127187 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 policy on if you've been relieved, but you 2 definitely should respond. 3 MR. : Okay. Would that be a 4 sound correctional judgment? 5 MS. : Yes. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MR. : I'm going to move on. 8 MR. Yup. 9 MR. : I'm going to, this document 10 that I'm showing you -- 11 MS. : Yes. 12 MR. : -- is dated Friday, August 13 9th, 2019. And then, the back is dated 14 Saturday, August 10th, 2019. Can you let us 15 know what this document is? 16 MS. : Yes. Well, this is called 17 the SHU locator form. 18 MR. : What does that mean? 19 MS. : It's basically all of the 20 ranges in SHU, and the cell numbers, and the 21 inmates that's assigned to the cells. 22 MR. : Okay. So, basically, a 23 roster for the SHU. 24 MS. : It's a roster for the SHU, 25 cell assignments, who's the cell, assigned to EFTA00127188 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 what cell. 2 MR. : Okay. And then, the bottom 3 here, on L-tier, 220-U, and 220-L. Who are the 4 inmates assigned on there? 5 MS. : Inmate Reyes and Inmate 6 Epstein. 7 MR. : What is C/F? You see the 8 letters next to Epstein's name, it says C/F? 9 C/F. 10 MS. : Yes. 11 MR. : What does that mean? 12 MS. : Common fear. Common fear 13 meal. Meaning, he got some kind of, I don't 14 know what was his religion. 15 MR. : So, it's -- 16 MS. : But it's a religious -- 17 MR. : -- yeah. 18 MS. : -- meal. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MS. : That's the common fear. 21 MR. : I just wanted to get 22 clarification on that. 23 MS. : Mm-hmm. 24 MR. : Just have her initial and 25 date it. EFTA00127189 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MS. : Okay. 2 MR. : Next document, it states 3 "United States Department of Justice, Federal 4 Bureau of Prisons, MCC New York. Transfer 5 Receipt." This is dated Friday, August 9th, 6 2019. Received from L. Warden MCC 7 New York. "Following United States prisoners." 8 Sorry, it's a little tough to read. 9 MS. : No. 10 MR. "Prisoners together with 11 complete files for transfer as indicated WAB, 12 USMS, SDNY." What is this document? 13 MS. : I have -. This is an R&D -. 14 MR. : So, you've never seen one of 15 these documents? 16 MS. : Documents. I don't know what 17 that is. Well, it's a transfer receipt. But I 18 don't know when they do it, and for, obviously, 19 why they do it. I don't know. 20 MR. : But you've never seen one of 21 these before? 22 MS. : No. I've never physically 23 seen the transfer receipt. 24 MR. : And this is not, you don't 25 think this is one of those documents that goes EFTA00127190 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 68 1 out to the units, saying these are the inmates 2 that are getting transferred? 3 MS. Hmm. I don't think so. 4 Because I've never seen it. As a lieutenant, I 5 would have seen it, and if we had good officers 6 in there, I would have received a copy, as 7 well. I've only seen the rosters. The 8 physical rosters. Never the transfer receipts 9 go out to the unit. 10 MR. : And when you say it's a 11 transfer receipt, does that mean that it's 12 created after the prisoner is transferred? 13 MS. : I don't know. 14 MR. : Okay. 15 MS. : I don't know. 16 MR. : The signature on that bottom. 17 Do you recognize that name by any chance? 18 MS. : No. 19 MR. : Okay. 20 MS. : (Indiscernible *00:50:39). 21 don't know who that is. 22 MR. : Okay. No problem. 23 MR. : Two minutes. Two 24 minutes. 25 MR. : And this is just the last EFTA00127191 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 set. 2 MS. : Sure. 3 MR. : What I'm showing you are 4 pictures. It is in black and white. 5 Unfortunately, we were not able to print it in 6 color. There's two pictures here. I need - 7 we'll get you to (Indiscernible *00:51:03) 8 after. 9 MS. : Sure. 10 MR. : These are, these pictures 11 were taken by the coroner's office, just to 12 clarify. 13 MS. : Okay. 14 MR. : And these were taken at the 15 MCC, just to clarify. These look like AED 16 (Phonetic Sp. *00:51:19) machines? 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : And do you know what this is? 19 MS. : It looks like a -- 20 MR. : (Indiscernible *00:51:24). 21 MS. -- a home-made noose. 22 MR. : A home-made noose. 23 MS. : Yes. 24 MR. : Have you seen this before? 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00127192 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 70 1 MR. : Do you know what this is? 2 And to us, in the - because it's in black and 3 white, and I know in the picture it looks black 4 5 MS. : Mm-hmm. 6 MR. : -- to us, in color, it looks 7 like a curtain. 8 MS. : No. It looks -. How can I 9 ? It's like a divider. 10 MR. : Okay. 11 MS. : On wheels. 12 MR. : That's what we need you to 13 clarify. So, where is this picture taken? 14 MS. : I'm not too sure where they 15 took this picture at. 16 MR. : The divider on wheels. Was 17 this something that was brought up to the SHU, 18 or was this somewhere else? 19 MS. : I don't know. I don't know. 20 MR. : Do you recall something like 21 that, like, that was brough up into the SHU to 22 cover up Epstein's cell, or was this brought in 23 the health center to help? 24 MS. : I don't know. 25 MR. : Would the divider be - EFTA00127193 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 71 1 an inmate committed suicide - would a divider 2 be put up outside of his cell so that other 3 inmates can't see what's going on? 4 MS. : I've never seen a divider put 5 up. 6 MR. : Okay. 7 MS. : Since I've been a lieutenant. 8 MR. : Okay. No problem. Can you 9 initial and date? 10 MR. : Do you know if there was 11 a divider put up after Epstein was removed, so 12 that - because it was a crime scene? 13 MS. : I don't know. When I got 14 there, there was no divider up. 15 MR. : Okay. So, you don't 16 recall -- 17 MS. : Once I arrived. No. 18 MR. : -- you don't recall 19 MS. : I didn't see 20 MR. : -- a divider. 21 MS. a divider. 22 MR. : Okay. 23 MS. : No. 24 MR. : Since the last time we spoke, 25 was there anything else that came to mind you EFTA00127194 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 72 1 think that you would want to share with us, 2 anything else that you think would be pertinent 3 to our investigation? 4 MS. : Nothing that I thought about. 5 I felt like you guys touched on everything when 6 we spoke. 7 MR. : Well, thank you again for 8 taking the time -- 9 MS. : No problem. 10 MR. : -- to talk to us. 11 MS. : Any time. 12 MR. : All right. Thank you, 13 thank you. 14 MS. : No problem. 15 MR. : Oh, and just, you still 16 are a lieutenant, you said? Correct? 17 MS. : Yes. 18 MR. : And you're right now 19 assigned to the MDC -- 20 MS. : Yes. 21 MR. : -- but on leave? 22 MS. : Yes. 23 MR. : Okay. But you're 24 expecting to return to the MDC? 25 MS. : Yes. EFTA00127195 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 1 MR. : Okay. Thank you. 2 MS. : You're welcome. 3 MR. : This is Special Agent 4 The time is 10:48 a.m., and we are 5 stopping the recorder. 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EFTA00127196 LIMITED OFFICIAL USE 74 1 CERTIFICATE 2 I hereby certify that the foregoing pages 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 represent an accurate transcript of the electronic sound recording of the proceedings before the Department of Justice, Office of the Inspector General in the matter of: Interview of /tette SeeA745-- Brianna Rose Burton, Transcriber EFTA00127197