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Case PAECIOOS8O-EELITBO ONAN O42 Filed@2e4a/22gePageé 24 of 67 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v PAUL M. DAUGERDAS, ET AL., February 15, 2012 C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct MR. GAJR: Yes, your Honor. THE COURT: Were going to take a luncheon recess at this time. We'll resume at 2:05. (Luncheon recess) 000 AFTERNOON SESSION 2:05 p.m. THE COURT: ! want to draw to counsel's attention two matters that developed over the luncheon recess. First, Ms. Stermheim presented me with a financial affidavit which she received from Ms. Conrad. Copies have been made and circulated Page 129 wontoaw &®w nh a) KF oo C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 131 Q. Did you refuse to tell Judge Pauley whether you had money in checking or savings accounts? A. I don't recall. Q. And this was just about two months ago that you had this conversation with Judge Pauley, correct? A. If we've established it was December 20th, right. Q. And you don't recall whether he asked you whether you had money in checking or savings accounts and you refused to answer? A. Are you directing me to look at a specific page of the transcript? Q. Actually, { was directing you to look at what I thought was on page 11, but lam not finding it right now. It might be -- oh, yeah, I'm sorry. My notes were wrong. It's the bottom of page 10 of the transcript. "The Court: Have you any cash on hand or money in savings or checking accounts?" And your answer was, "As opposed to what? As opposed to paying my rent next month or as opposed to what? That's not a fair question. I don't understand what you're saying, sir.” Now, do you recall, does that refresh your recollection that you were asked about whether you had cash or 23 money in checking or savings accounts? 24 A. Yes. Now it does, sir. 25 Q. And did you tell the judge that your personal finances had oowlnwn & ww H NWN PP HP PPP Pe Pe NH OW OAR U PF wh HO 12 to all counsel and I've marked it as Court Exhibit 1. 13 Second, during the luncheon recess we discovered on 14 our voice mail system that there is a voice mail message from 15 Ms. Conrad. Much like a picture that's worth a thousand words 16 I'm going to play the voice mail message for all parties in 17 Open court now. i8 19 MS. CONRAD: (Voice mail) "Hi, it's Catherine Conrad. 20 Iwon't be showing up to the hearing today. Thank you." 21 THE COURT: Play the time. 22 "§:33 a.m. on February 15th." 23 All right. There you have it. That was after her 24 conversation with my deputy at 7:52, Are there any matters 25 that counsel want to raise before we bring Ms. Conrad out and C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 130 1 resume the inquiry? 2 MR. GAIR: No, your Honor. 3 THE COURT: All right. 4 MR. OKULA: Judge, do you anticipate that we'll go to 5 5 today? 6 THE COURT: Do you anticipate finishing with 7 Ms. Conrad this afternoon? 8 MR, GAIR: I do so anticipate. 9 THE COURT: Good. Then 1 anticipate going to five. | LO 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 If we have to work a little later to complete Ms. Conrad, I'd like to do that. Mr. Gair, you may continue with your examination. BY MR. GAIR: Q. Gn December 20th when you were here pursuant to the Court's order, Judge Pauley attempted to determine whether you had the financial ability to hire a Jawyer. Do you recall that? A, Generally, Not specifically. Q. And you understood -- well, he asked you whether you had 19 any money in checking or savings account, did he not? 20 A. I don't recall, 21 Q. If we can look at Exhibit 3, it's tab 3, page 11 of the 22 transcript -- 23 MR. GAITR: If I may have a moment, your Honor. 24 THE COURT: Take your time. 25 (Pause) SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS a5 C2FFDAU4 Conrad - direct Page 132 1 nothing to do with this? 2 A. I can't read as quickly as you're trying to lead me to, but -- Q. [don't want to make you go any more quickly than you can, If you look on page 11, line 19, did you say, beginning line 19, "My personal finances have nothing to do with this. Thank you, They have nothing to do with this, I can get counsel any time I want, federal or state. Thank you, sir," Did you say that to Judge Pauley? A. Yes, before he told me to sit down, Q. We're going to get to where he told you to sit down, but when you told Judge Pauley your personal finances have nothing | to do with this, did you understand that in fact your personal finances had a great deal to do with whether or not he could appoint a lawyer for you? A. Had nothing to do with the guilty verdict ] rendered against your client. Q. So you were not telling the judge that your personal finances had nothing to do with whether or not you could be appointed a lawyer? A. Can you please rephrase that? Q. Sure. What you said is that your personal finances had nothing to do with it and you could get a lawyer federal or state any time you wanted, Isn't that what you said? A. If that’s what it sets, then that's what I said, sir. 3 4 5 6 7 8 3 10 iL 12 13 14 i5 16 17 18 1s 20 21 22 23 a4 (33) Page 129 - Page 132 DOJ-OGR-00009246