EFTA00298214.pdf

1 2 3 Page 320 IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE FIFTEENTH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR PALM BEACH COUNTY, FLORIDA CASE No.50200SCA0373193000CMB AB 1 2 3 Page 322 APPEARANCES: On behalf °flaw Dora 1 through 8: JESSICA ARBOURESQUIRE utatmusitirt & P.A. 1820513ismne Boulevard B.B. Susie 2218 4 Plaintiff Miami, Phone S 1, 6 ws- VOLUME al OF IV 7 8 Oa behalf of the Plaintiff, Jame Doe No. IL ISIDRO MAKIJEI. GARCIA, ESQUIRE GARCIA, MAINS& BOO-RINGER 9 224 Dan Awnuo Suite 90) West 33401 Dcfaxlinta. 10 tilde Phan( 9 11 ind 10 12 TARA A. MORGAN. ESQUIRE. TARA A. P124141GAN. PA 11 13 224 Datum SEM 12 DEPOSITION OF SAW 900 DETECTIVE JOSEPH RECAREY 14 West ids 33401 13 Plan. 14 15 Tuesday, April 27, 2010 1003 - 5:23 p.m. Is 16 17 Oo bd./gelthe De /W. Setiney Epsiesn: MEI IAN PIKE. 18QUIRE 16 505 South Hagler Drive BURMAN, CRUTCH, Lunrout COLEMAN, LIP Suite 1100 14 303 Rearm nadorsrel 17 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 Sage 400 18 19 West Pligarida 33401 19 Phone 20 20 and 21 21 22 Reported By: mTI:PON 0. WITINRF.R.G. mot BRE Jena Riociuti, RPR, PPR, CLR 22 LAW OFFICE OF MILTON G. WEINBERG 23 Notary Public. Siam of Florida 20 Park Plant 24 Prose Court Reporting Job No.: 1509 23 24 Suite 1008. Bea Mir 02116 Thaw 25 25 Page 321 Page 323 1 1 Appearances continued... 2 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT 2 On behalf of the Witness: 3 SOUTHERN DISTRICT OP FLORIDA 3 JOANNE M. O'CONNOR, ESQUIRE CASE NO. 10-80309 JONES, FOSTER, JOHNSON & STUBBS, P.A. 4 505 South Flagler Drive, Suite 1100 5 JANE DOE NO. 103. West Pa rida 33401 Pkbdiff; Phone: 7 VOLUME DI OFIV 9 JEFFREY EPSTEIN, Degltlallt 7 8 Also Present: Jeffrey Epstein 10 9 11 10 12 DEPOSITION OP 11 DETECTIVE JOSEPH RECAREY 12 13 14 Tuesday, April 27,2010 13 15 10:03 - 5:23 p.m. 14 16 505 South Hagler Drive 15 Suite 1100 16 17 West Palm Beach, Florida 33401 17 18 18 19 20. 19 ,21 20 22 Reported By. 21 Jeana Rkciuti, RPR, IFPR, CLR 22 23 Notary Public, State of Florida 23 24 Prose Court Reporting 24 25 25 2 (Pages 320 to 323) • PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricclutl Electronically signed by Jeana Ricci utl (4082837-a bal-482e4836-be014441447a EFTA00298214 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 324 PROCEEDINGS Deposition taken before Jeana Ricciuti, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of I•lorida at Large, in the above cause. Thereupon, (JOSEPH RECAREY) having been fast duly sworn or affirmed, was examined and testified as follows: THE WITNESS: I do. CROSS (JOSEPH RECAREY) BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Good morning, Detective. A. Good morning. Q. You've been a detective for the Palm Beach Police Department for how long? A. Approximately, 15 years. Q. Some of it is as a detective and some of it in another capacity, or always as a detective? A. I've been with the Town for 19 yews, but I did time on the road and then moved up to the detective bureau. Q. And do they have a written practice in teams of whether or not you're required to preserve rough Page 326 1 Q. And you would type the report into a computer? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And that would be essentially signed by you, 4 that would be your personal summary of the interview 5 that you were conducting with one of the many people 6 that gave you information about Mr. Epstein? A. Correct. 8 Q. And it was always your practice in this case 9 to then destroy the notes that you used as a basis for 10 that typed summary; is that correct? A. Correct. 12 Q. And on other cases, is it always your practice 13 to destroy the notes that you would take during the 14 interviews? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. So you have no notes of any case that you've 17 ever memorialized into a computer or a typed summary; is 18 that correct? 19 A. That is correct. 20 Q. And is that a practice that you've discussed 21 with other detectives in the Palm Beach Police 22 Department? 23 A. Ifs just a practice that I've done all along. 24 Q. And what is the purpose of your destroying the 25 rough notes? Page 325 1 notes or interview notes of different witnesses? 2 A. No policies, no practice. 3 Q. Do you have personal practice as to whether or 4 not you would retain rough notes that you are 5 contemporaneously taking of interviews with the 6 witnesses? 7 A. I take my notes, transcribe them into my 8 supplements and then shred them. 9 Q. So that you have no rough notes or no 10 handwritten notes — 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. of any of the many interviews you took 13 during your investigation of Jeffrey Epstein? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. It was your practice to take notes while you 16 were interviewing people? 17 A. On occasion, 1 did, yes. 18 Q. Would you take notes even if you were tape 19 recording the people with whom you were conducting an 20 interview? 21 A. On occasion. 22 Q. And at some point thereafter, you would use 23 those notes as a basis of writing a report; is that 24 correct? 25 A. Correct. Page 327 1 A. There's no need to keep them once you've 2 transcribed than into your supplemental. 3 Q. And again, the transcription into the 4' supplemental is done X number of days after the 5. interview? 6 A. If not the same day. 7 Q. Sometimes a week after, sometimes the same 8 day? 9 A. I wouldn't say a week after. I would say 10 either the same day or the day after. 11 Q. So within 24 hours, you would have a typed 12 summary of the interview, is that correct? 13 A. Approximately. 14 Q. And would you just type your rough notes or 15 would you summarize from your rough notes when you 16 • engaged in the process of — 17 A. Summarize. 18. Q. — your report? 19 So the notes would have more than a summary? 20 A. Obviously, if it was taped, everything would 21 be on the tape recorder. As fir as my note-taking 22 concerns, I would jot down things that sparked my 23 curiosity or things I wanted to go back and reinterview 24 the person - and go back and reinterview the person. 25 Q. So the summary that you typed into a computer PROSE COURT 3 (Pages 324 to 327) REPORTING. AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 c6062637-abel-452c-a836-bc614e314d7a EFTA00298215 Page 328 Page 330 1 would be, in part, your notes, part in memory of 1 surveillances of Mr. Epstein's residence as El Brillo on 2 different statements made to you based on the jottings 2 Palm Beach, correct? 3 in your notes? 3 A. Correct 4 A. I would basically go over what the interview 4 Q. And who made that assignment, if you know? 5 transcribed, you know, into my supplement. S A. I can't recalL That was back when 6 Q. But the basis of the supplemental, and I don't 6 Officer Pagan had the case. But they were also 7 mean to torture the subject, but the basis of the 7 utilizing it for various functions. They were primarily 8 supplement would be, in part, your memory, correct? 8 the surveillance units used. 9 A. Correct 9 Q. And did they surveille residences to try to 10 Q. And then, in part, what your notes refreshed 10 stop burglaries as well as stuveilling Mr. Epstein, 11 your memory into recalling from the interview that was 11 right? 12 conducted either at that time, the same day or the day 12 A. And other fractions as well. 13 before? 13 Q. Sure. And in 2005, there was not any kind of 14 A. Correct 14 burglary investigation dealing with his residence; is 15 Q. Did you listen to the tape before you wrote a 15 that correct? 16 supplemental report into a computer? 16 A. Correct. 17 A. Are you saying every time or arc you just 17 Q. So to the extent the Burglary Task Force was 18 saying — 18 involved in investigating Mr. Epstein prior to your 19 Q. Asa regular practice, would you, at the time 19 first involvement in September, it was simply an 20 that you typed in your supplemental report into a 20 assignment made of them to assist Officer Pagan, 21 computer, have the tape recording going? 21 correct? 22 A. See, I have done that on other cases, 22 A. Correct. 23 especially lengthy interviews, interviews that last 23 Q. And if you know, did the Burglary Task Force 24 several hours. 24 use video surveillance in investigating Mr. Epstein? 25 Q. But it's not a standard practice, it's 25 A. I know that there were some videos taken, but Page 329 Page 331 1 something you would do on an occasional basis; is that 1 I don't believe from the video — from the Burglary 2 correct? 2 Strike Force. 3 A. Correct 3 Q. Was there videos taken by others in the Palm 4 Q. Now, let me ask you in particular, on your 4 Beach Police Department of Mr. Epstein's residence? 5 incident report, in essence, is a combination of all the 5 A. There was. There were several tapes. Yes, 6 different supplemental reports that you typed; is that 6 there was. 7 correct? 7 Q. Did you ever direct video surveillance of 8 A. I typed, and other officers as well. 8 Mr. Epstein's residence? 9 Q. Because you came to this investigation at 9 A. What do you mean "direct"? 10 least six months after it began; is that right? 10 Q. In other words, was there any video 11 A. Approximately, yes. 11 surveillance of Mr. Epstein's residence on or after the 12 Q. Again, March of 2005? 12 time that you became the ease agent in the 2005 13 A. Yes. 13 investigation? 14 Q. And it began with Officer Michele Pagan being 14 A. I can't recall. If I did, it would be in the 15 the case agent, if I could call her that? 15 incident report. 16 A. Correct. 16 • Q. But you know that there was such video 17 Q. And it began with surveillances that were 17 surveillance of Mr. Epstein's residence before you 18 conducted by the Burglary Task Force? 18 became the case agent in charge of the investigation? 19 A. Correct 19 ' A. I can't recall if it was before I took over 20 Q. And the Burglary Task Force was a component of 20 the case or after I took over the case. I know that 21 the Palm Beach Police Department designed to try to 21 there was tapes, but i don't know the exact time frame. 22 prevent citizens from being the victims of burglaries; 22 Q. Let me ask you and — let me ask Mr. Pike for 23 . is that correct? 23 one second. 24 A. Correct. 24 MR. WEINBERG: Do we need to use the real 25 Q. And yet, they were assigned the task of doing 25 names? 4 (Pages 328 to 331) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana RIcciuti (801 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (801 c6062637-abol-462c-a836-bc614.314d7a EFTA00298216 Page 332 1 MR. PIKE: Yes, pursuant to the agreement that 2 was entered last time, the real names can be used. 3 MR. WEINBERG: Chuck is not going to be in 4 agreement, but i can use the real names, and then 5 they will be convened in the transcript to the 6 applicable abbreviations. 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 8 Q. Jane Doe, do you know that name? 9 A. Not that I recall. 10 Q. So that it's fair that as you sit here today, 11 in 2010, you have no recollection of ever interviewing a 1.2 woman, a young woman at the time named Jane Doe? 13 A. i don't recall, no. 14 Q. n, d: e r ciu have any recollection of ever 15 interviewing M.? 16 A. I went to her home. 17 Q. And what do you recall of going to her home? 18 A. She did not ward to speak to me. 19 Q. And did she tell you why she didn't want to 20 speak to you? 21 A. She was in love with Mr. Epstein and she was 22 not going to speak to me. 23 Q. And how did you come to go to her home? Do 24 you wall, you lawny, what led you to M.? 25 A. Her name came up in the investigation either Page 334 1 yoinself? 2 A. NO, sir. 3 Q. Did you ever discuss with anyone the fact that 4 there was such a victim list that had been generated out 5 of the United States Attorneys Office? 6 A. There was a list, I believe, that was given to 7 chief — former Chief Reiter. I never got to actually 8 physically hold it and look at it i mean, it was one 9 of those things where he showed me the list, but I never 10 got a chance to... 11 Q. Did the Chief represent to you that that list 12 originated with the United States Attorneys Office? 13 A. I believe so. 14 Q. Did he explain that he had received it from 15 them? 16 A. I believe so. 17 Q. And did he explain ho received it from them 18 with the directive that it should be reviewed and then 19 destroyed? 20 A. I recall the destroying part I'm sure he 21 reviewed it 22 Q. What do you recall of the destroying part? 23 A. I remember him telling me that he was given 24 the copy but it must be destroyed immediately 25 thereafter. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 333 by interviews or — I believe it was interviews. Q. And do you recall who was interviewed, who would have given you for the first time the name of M.? A. There were so many interviews then. I would have documented it in the incident of who supplied what name. Q. So independent of what's documented in an incident report that was largely authored, what's now five years ago, you have no otrecollection of who would have first toM you about ? A. Lilco I said, it would be documented in the incident report You know, we're talking five years ago. You know, tons of interviews. Q. And with Jane Doe, similarly, do you you don't remember interviewing her. Do you remember interviewing anybody else about Jane Doe? A. Jane Doe does not ring a bell. Q. Did you ever see her name on any report? A. No, I don't remember. Q. Did you ever see her name on any list of different complainants, victims, witnesses? A. No. Q. Did you eva sec a list of victims or witnesses that was prepared by someone other than Page 335 1 Q. And did he tell you who directed him to 2 destroy it? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did he tell you whether or not that directive 5 was in writing or verbal? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Have you ever seen — other than seeing him in 8 the physical possession of the list, have you ever seen 9 it again? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that he 12 didn't destroy it? 13 A. No. If he says he was going to destroy it, he 14 would destroy it. 15 Q. And do you recall when that was in terms of 16 the evolution of the State case? 17 A. It would have been around December or January 18 time Same of like '06,107. 19 Q. So either the end of '06, beginning of '07? 20 A. I believe so. 21 Q. Or at the time period that would be after the 22 State grand jury met and returned charges against 23 Mr. Epstein? 24 A. It would have been, yes, much after. 25 Q. Would it have bear before there was 5 (Pages 332 to 335) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana FtIcclutl (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Moduli (601 c6062637-abel-452c-a836-bc6144/314d7a EFTA00298217 Page 336 1 sum-ceding information that brought in the charges? 2 A. It would have been — again, I'm going off of recollection here. 4 Q. And again, I understand this is four years ago 5 and we're just trying to get your best unrefreshed recollection. 7 A I'm trying to think back. It would have 8 been — it would have been — see, I would be guessing. 9 Q. We don't want you to guess. 10 A That's the thing, I would be guessing. 11 Q. Did the Chief ask you to come to his office? 12 A Yes, he did ask me. He said the — the list 13 was not going to leave his office, most assured, and 14 I — at that point, I was like, you know, don't even 15 show me. Liman, it was for your eyes only, that's 16 fine. 17 Q. And did he explain to you why he was directed 18 to destroy the list? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Has the Chief ever before invited you to his 21 office to discuss a document that he thereafter told you 22 he was directed to destroy? 23 A. I mean, I've been many times at the Chiefs 24 office — 25 Q. Sure. Page 338 1 Q. And you certainly don't recall him ever saying 2. that on any other occasion that he had been directed by 3 any Federal or State prosecutor - 4. A. Not with me, no. 5 Q. — to destroy a document? 6 A. Not with me. 7 Q. And just so we're clear, this docwnent was 8 being destroyed, not in the regular course of business, 9 but as a result of the directive from the Federal 10 prosecutor, correct, according to — 11 A. I would assume so, yeah. 12 Q. And there was no other copy that you knew of 13 this document? 14 A. No. 15 Q. And you have never seen one thereafter? 16 A. N sir. 17 Q. M . , you went to ha house; is that correct? 18 A. Correct 19 Q. Did you speak to either of her parents? 20 A. No, I did not. 21 Q. Was she 18 at the time you went to her house? 22 A. I believe so. 23 Q. Was your practice that when somebody was over 24 18, you would feel Otte it was appropriate to interview 25 them directly, but if somebody was under It, you would Page 337 1 A. — but not — leant recall if there was ever 2 a time that he showed me a document that he must 3 destroy. 4 Q. And have you ever been, yourself, directed by 5 either a State attorney or a US attorney to destroy your 6 document? 7 A. No. 8 Q. And has the Chief ever told you, on any other 9 occasion that you currently recall, that he was directed 10 by a Federal or State prosecutor to destroy a document? 11 • A. I don't know. 12 Q. And other than destroying documents in the. 13 regular course of business, you don't recall the Chief 14 ever before or ever after saying he had been directed by 15 any third party to destroy a document that was relevant 16 to the investigation, correct? 17 A. Fro sorry, can you ask the question again? 18 Q. Oh, sure. Fm sorry. Other than this 19 occasion when the Chief invited you to his office and 20 specifically said that he was in possession of a 21 document, relevant to the Epstein investigation that he 22 had been directed to destroy, do you recall any other 23 occasion where the Chief told you that he was destroying 24 a document relevant to an investigation? 25- A. No. Page 339 1 try to give some parental notification? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. And your best recollection with is she 4 was over 18 and, therefore, you went directly to her? 5 A. Correct 6 Q. What would you have told her when you rang on 7 her doorbell and she answered the door? 8 A. I would have identified who I am, my purpose 9 for being there. 10 Q. And what would you have said your purpose for 11.. being there was? 12 A. I was conducting an investigation. 13 Q. And wonld.you tell her of who? 14 A. Yes. 3.5 Q. And would you tell her the subject matter of 16 the investigation? 17 A. Yes, absolutely. 18 Q. And her answer was that she did not wish to 19 cooperate with you? 20 A. I never got to the point to explain to her my 21' purpose of being there. Obviously, she knew why I was 22 .- . there. Once I identified myself, l told her I was a . • 23 police officer from Palm Beach and I was here to speak 24- to her in regards to Jeffrey Epstein. At that point, 25. • . she stopped me and said, I have nothing to say about 6 (Pages 336 to 339) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY,..INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Fticciuti (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 c5062637-abol-452c-a836-bc6140140a EFTA00298218 Page 34C 1 him, nothing negative to say about him. She is in love 2 with the man, and... 3 Q. So that was literally a 30-second 4 conversation? 5. A. Pretty much. Pretty much. 6 Q. Were you with anyone? 7 A. Yes, I was. • 8 Q. Who were you with? 9 A. I want to say either Sergeant Dawson, who was 10 a detective at the time. 11 Q. Did you follow that tip at all by attempting to 1.2 reinterview her on any other occasion? 13 A. No. 14 Q. So your sum total experience with was 15 essentially a 30-second conversation at her house where 16 she declined your invitation to disci KS Jeffrey Epstein 17 with her? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. Okay. And you do recall her saying, "fin in 20 love with him*? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And you're assuming but don't know that she 23 • had been essentially tipped off that this investigation 24 was ongoing; is that correct? 25 A. Pretty much. I mean, she didn't know why I — 1 2. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 342 Q. Do you recall who that was? • A. Yes, I do. Q. Who was that? A. Q. And tell me what you remember of that attempted interview. A. I went up to interview her with Detective Caristo, at her boyfriend's place of employment was where she was at. And she didn't wish to speak to me at that point. Q. And did she tell you why? - A. If l can refer to it. Q. Sure, go ahead. A. She said that she knew there was an investigation and that 1 had spoken to other people and, therefore, I should know what had happened at Mr. Epstein's house. Q. And did she make any other further explanation for her declining your request for an interview? A. No. Q. Did she tell you that she, like M., had positive regard for Mr. Epstein? A. I don't recall any positive regard. ti.3icylou take notes of your conversation with Ms. Page 341 1 allegedly why 1 was there, but yet she... 2 Q. Well, you told her why you were there, and she 3 then said, I'm in love with Jeffrey Epstein and have 4 nothing negative to say about him? A. Correct. 6 Q. And so am I correct that she didn't say that 7 she knew why you were there, that you're assuming that, 8 because of the timing of that interview, that she had 9 discussed the investigation with others? 10 A. It's possible. 11 Q. You don't recall anybody telling you — 12 . A. No. 13 Q. — at this time, that they had talked to M. 14 about your investigation? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Was there more than one such person, meaning 17 did anybody else that you attempted to interview about . 18. Jeffrey Epstein decline to be interviewed, to your 19 current recollection? 20 A. No. I believe she's the only one. 21 Q. Can I ask you to look at page 81, paragraph 1 22 of your incident report, and ask whether or not that • . 23 refreshes your recollection about the events of • . 24 February 15, 2006. 25 A. Yes. Page 343 1 A. No. 2 O fild you take notes of your conversation with 3 Ms. M.? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you write any supplemental report 6 regarding your interview attempts with Ms. 5? 7 A. I believe I did. • 8 Q. And likewise, you have before you a 9 supplemental 1.1 that reflects your attempts to 10 interview Ms. 11 A. Yes. 12. Q. Did you ever attempt to interview a woman 13 nulled a? 14 A. Yes, I did? 15 Q. What do you recall of that interview? 16 A. She was a masseuse. I remember going to her 17 home and interviewing her at her home. And If I recall 18 correctly, she stated that what happened betwom her and 19 Mr. Epstein were between consenting adults, that she was 20 over 18 at that time. 21 Q. And did you write a report on that inns-view 22 attempt? • 23 A. I believe so. 24. Q. And in fact, you interviewed a writs of women 25 - who were over 18 years old,not only at the time of the 7 (Pages 390 to 343) PROSE COURT 'REPORTING. AGENCY, ,INC. . . • (- Electronically signed by Jeana Ricclutl (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciu0 (601 a062637-abel-452c-a836-13c614e314d7a EFTA00298219 Page 344 1 interview, but also at the time of the events between 2 them and Mr. Epstein, correct? 3 A. Correct. Q. And you would incorporate those interviews within the overall 87-page incident report is that correct? A Correct 8 Q. So that the focus of this broad investigation 9 was not restricted to women under 18 and also included 10 women who were over IS; is that correct? 11 A. Correct 12 Q. Now, some of the girls that you interviewed, I 13 don't mean to be disrespectful, but some of the minors 14' you interviewed were emotional at the time of your 15 interview, is that correct? 16 A. Correct 17 Q. And if they were under 18 at the time of their 18 interview, it WAS your practice to precede that 19 • interview with some notification to their parents; is 20 that correct? 21 A. Correct 22 Q. And what would that notification be? In other 23 words, what would you tell the mother or father of a 24 minor? 25 A. That their daughter was a possible victim 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 346 THE WITNESS: Right. Some girls wart under n different ruse. They thought they were going to either model or get a chance to be in Victoria Secrets or that kind of thing, but... BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. That was the exception to the rule. A. Nobody was bound and gagged to go to the house. Q. And those that told you that they thought they were going there for some other purpose were the exception to the rule that was disclosure by whoever invited them, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Object to the fonn. THE WITNESS: Some girls, again, told me that they were going there to give massages, and some girls went there for other reasons. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Well, let's take one of them who claimed to have gone there for another reason. Do recall interviewing n young woman named M.? A. Yes. Q. And when did you interview her? Would the date of January 9, 2006 be consistent with your memory as to when you interviewed A. It would have been, yeah, about that time. 1 1 3 4 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 -17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25. Page 345 and/or witness in a police investigation involving a gentleman that lives in the Town of Palm Beach. Q. And had you, at the time of say by October of 2005, within 30 days of your commencing of your responsibilities in this investigation, concluded that, as to these minors, that they would not be prosecuted; that they were either victims or witnesses but not targets? A. Rephrase your question one more time, Tm sorry. Q. Sure. Let me give you a predicate. Many, if not all, of the people you interviewed were paid sums of money to give Mr. Epstein a massage at the bottom level, correct? A. Correct Q. And that they went to his house, correct? A. Yes. Q. And that they went to his house voluntarily; is that era met? MS. ARBOUR Object to the form. 311E WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. In other words, they weren't kidnapped or . coerced into going to his house. MS. ARBOUR: Object to the form. Page 347 1 know 1 attempted it once before and she was emotional 2 and, plus, I needed to get her father's consent because 3 she was still underage. 4 Q. When you went to visit with her father, her S father talked to you, did he not? 6 A. Either 1 telephoned him or spoke to him 7 directly. I believe I might have tel oned him. 8 Q. And the father told you that M. had told him 9 that she had been hired to model lingerie; is that 10 correct? 11 A. 1 believe so. Pm not 100 percent certain on 12 that one. I know I recall the modeling part. I don't 13 know if it was exactly lingerie or... 14 Q. Okay. The father had communicated to you that 15 his daughter had told him that her connection to Jeffrey 16 Epstein was that she went to see him as a model? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. In other words, what you took from talking to 19 the father is that M. had likely lied to him regarding 20 her experiences with Mr. Epstein, correct? 21 A. I wouldn't say "lied to him," because that's 22 what she claimed to me, that that was the purpose of her 23 going to the house. 24 Q. But the father said that that's what she said 25 was the relationship between him [sic] and Mr. Epstein, 8 (Pages 344 to 347) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana RIccluti (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 c6062637-abo1-452c-a836-bc6141,314d7a EFTA00298220 Page 348 1 that she went there as a model. 2 A I recall that that's what the father knew of 3 her going over there. 4 Q. Sure. And this isn't the first parent that 5 you interviewed that didn't know what his daughter would 6 later claim occurred to you; is that right? 7 A. What do you mem? 8 Q. In other words, many of the parents that you 9 sought permission to interview their daughters did not 10 know the details of what had transpired between their 11 daughters and Mr. Epstein, correct? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And in fact, no parent called you up 14 uninvited, uninitiated and said, I want to complain 15 about something that's happening in Palm Beach regarding 16 Mr. Epstein? 17 A. That's how the case first became originated, 18 but not me directly. 19 Q. Not you. 20 A. Not me directly. 21 Q. So of all of the witnesses that you 22 interviewed, there wasn't a single parent that came to 23 you as contrasted to you going to them? 24 A. No, not tome. I know that 25 Q. I understand and — 1 2 3 4 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 350 came tome and said that something bad happened to her in relation to Jeffrey Epstein. A. No. Q. And no teacher ever came to you and said, my God, I have a student who is saying that something bad or improper happened in relation to her and Jeffrey Epstein, correct? A. Correct. Q. And no religious figure ever came to you and asked you to investigate Mr. Epstein as a result of some confessional or some complaint that he received from either a minor or from a parent of a minor? A. Correct. Q. And from that, you concluded that — strike that. No doctor ever came to you and said that they had a patient that had been harmed by Jeffrey Epstein during the time period of your 2005/'6 investigation, correct? A. Correct. Q. No psychiatrist or social worker or mental health professional ever came to you and said, I have a patient or client that claims to have been banned by Mr. Epstein? A. Correct 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 .25 Page 349 A. -- Officer Pagan — Q. -- we'll get there. Because you never yourself interviewed .., is that correct? A. No, I did not Q. So any testimony that you have given about was derived from your reading reports that were authored by Officer Pagan and others, correct? A. Correct. Q. And amongst those reports was some indication that one of the parental figures in life had made a proactive phone call to the Palm Beach Police Department in March of 2005, correct? A. Coned. • • Q. And they had overheard some conversation about what .. claimed to have done at Jeffrey Epstein's house, correct? • A. Correct. Q. And that they were not saying, my daughter came to me and said, please call the police, something happened to me; they were claiming that they had overheard a conversation, correct? A. I believe so, yes. Q. So no parent said to you or — and there's no report that reflects a parent saying to Officer Pagan or anyone else in the Palm Beach Police Department, my kid Page 351 1 Q. And no minor ever came herself to the Palm 2 Beach Policy Department and claimed to have been alnico(' 3 or harmed by Jeffrey Epstein? 4 A. Well, after the arrest of Mr. Epstein, we did 5 have people telephone In, but... 6 Q. But not before the arrest and in fact, the -- 7 not before the grand jury returned its charge in the 8 summa of 2006, correct? 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. And then you had occasional calls from people 11 who you reported their allegations, correct? 12 A. Correct. Actually, it's Dawson — 13 Q. One was from New York and California — 14 A. — Sergeant Dawson, right. 15 Q. — and they had — they were kind of jumping 16 on the Internet train that resulted from the publicity 17 of Mr. Epstein's charge. 18 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 19 THE WITNESS: I don't know if you want to call 20 that as a publicity train, but some of these 21 victims were legitimate, you know. I mean, we did 22 have people call in as adults, but we had 23 legitimate victims calling in. 24 . BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 Q. And you call them legitimate victims, but just PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, Electronically signed by Jeana !Melon (601 Electronically signed by Joana Ricciutl (601 -1"1""•- ', " 9 (Pages 348 to 351) INC. c5062637-aba1.462c.a8341-bc6144414d7a EFTA00298221 Page 352 so the record is clear, you were not present at Page 354 trying to initiate an investigation against Mr. Epstein 7 Mr. Epstein's home on any occasion when he had a with the sole exception of the n. broad family and the 3 one-to-one or contact with any of the so-called phone call that came into the police department six 1 complainants, correct? , months before you became case agent, correct? 5 A. No. 5 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 6 Q. So this is not something you — you were not 6 THE WITNESS: Coned. / an eyewitness to any of the events, correct? 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 8 A. Correct. 8 Q. So let's, if we can, go back to and try 9 Q. There was no video surveillance of what did or 9 to at least focus on one of the interviewees. 10 did not occur in the massage room on the second floor on 10 She told you that she had originally gone to 11 El Brillo; is that correct? 11 the house believing that she was going there for the 12 ' A. 'Correct. 12 purpose of modeling; is that comet? 13 Q. There was no audio surveillance of any 13 A. Correct. 14 conversations that Mr. Epstein participated in with any 14 Q. And somebody must have told her that, correct? 15 of the witnesses or complainants; is that correct? 15 A. I believe the person that took her. 16 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 16 Q. And do you recall who took her? Would. 17 THE WITNESS: Correct. 17 ring a bell? 18 BY ta NVIIIIIBBRO: 18 A. I believe, yes, I believe it was M. that 19 Q. You're relying on, A, what you were told and, 19 took her. 20 B, what your investigation derived? 20 Q. Do you recall writing — and this comes from, 21 A. During the sworn taped statement. 21 what I believe, is Exhibit 1 of the Palm Beach Police 22 Q. So going back to the period before he was 22 Department affidavit that "On January 9.1_20306,1 23 arrested and before there was this kind of outflow of 23 located and interviewed another victim, s date of 24 media or attention, there was not any of the different 24 birth April 29, 1988. was identified as a potent .1 25 minors that, who reside in Palm Beach, ever came to 25 victim witness from infonnation obtained during tia.‘,1 Page 353 Page 355 1 their local police department or to the Palm Beach 1 pulls from Epstein's residence." 2 Police Department and made a complaint against 2 And I represent to you I'm reading this 3 Jeffrey Epstein; is that correct? 3 accurate. 4 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 4 Does that refresh your memory about the going 5 TIM WITNESS: Are you limiting your 5 ton.? 6 questioning to just the persons that lived within 6 A. Yes. 7 the Town of Palm Beach limits? 7 Q. And during what period of time would they have 8 BY MR. WEIN13ERO: • a these trash pulls? 9 Q. Let me start with the people within this 9 A. That would have been documented in the report. 10 region. Did any minor ever initiate a complaint with 10 Q. Any of them after the search of October 20th? 11 you against Mr. Epstein before you had gone to them? 11 A. It might have been. 12 A. Not that I can recall, no. 12 Q. And by trash pull, we're referencing the 13 Q. And likewise, you don't know that any minor in 13 attempts by the Palm Beach Police Department to derive 14 14 investigatory material by searching the garbage that this region, before the publicity, ever went to their 15 local police department, be it in West Palm Beach or 15 came from Mr. Epstein's residence; is that correct? 16 • Daytona Beach or wherever, and said, I want to report 16 A. That is correct. 17 that I have been injured, harmed, compromised by 17 Q. And the conversations engaged in between you 18 Jeffrey Epstein. 18 and others working for you and different representatives 19 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 19 of the Palm Beach Sanitation Department? 20 THE WITNESS: If there was, I wouldn't be . 20 A. The Sanitation Department didn't go through 21 aware of it. ' 21 the trash; all they did was pull it for us. 22 BY Mit. WEINBERG: 22 Q. But there were conversations between the 23 Q. Your 87-page report does not reflect any 23 - police and Sanitation asking Sanitation to have a clean 24 initiative taken by any minor or any parent of a minor 24 and empty truck; is that correct? 25 ' or any professional who is associated with a minor in 25 A. Correct 10 (Pages 352 to 355) 'PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (801 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (801 C6062637-abol-452c-a336-bc614•314eila EFTA00298222 Page 356 1 Q. To drive the truck to a certain location, 2 correct? 3 A. Correct Q. To collect the trash on certain days from 5 Mr. Epstein's house, correct? 6 A. Correct. Q. You knew that Mr. Epstein's house was enclosed 8 by security gates from your surveillances there, did you 9 not? 10 A. Correct 11 Q. And that one would need to buzz in to come in? 12 A. Not necessarily. I mean, the gates leading to 13 the garage were always left unsecured, opened. 14 Q. Did you not know that the Sanitation people 15 . would buzz in and ask — tell them that they were there 16 to get the trash? 17 A. In the many, many times that I've driven by, 18 I've always seen that gate open to the garage. 19 Q. But when the Sanitation people went to 20 Mr. Epstein's house, they were there pursuant to an 21 agreement with you, that they would bring the trash to a 22 predestined location where it would be made available to 23 Palm Beach -- 24 A. Well, they were watched. 25 Q. They were watched? Page 358 1 A. Correct 2 Q. And that they would go in and you would 3 surveille them going in? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. They would come out with the trash, correct? 6 A. Correct 7 Q. They would put it in their truck, correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. They wouldn't open it and mix it with the 10. trash? 11 A. No. 12 Q. They would take special care of it — 13 A. Absolutely. 14 Q. - so that it was preserved for search? 15 A. Absolutely. 16 Q. They would drive it to a place where the 17 target wouldn't observe the transfer? 18 • A. Correct. 19. • Q. They would hand over the trash to the polio 20 officer, correct? 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. And the purpose of this trash seizure would be 23 to search the trash for investigative evidence, correct? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And to your understanding, that was done Page 357 1 A. They were watched. 2 Q. So you knew when they were going? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. There was a predestined time tlx:? they worn• 5 going to go; is that correct? 6 A. Correct. Correct. 7 Q. And you saw them go onto Mr. Epstein's a property. 9 A. Correct. 10 Q. You saw them walk into, through the gates, 11 • whether they were opened or whether they were opened for 12 the people; is that correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. You'd see them walk through the driveway 15 area — 16 A. Correct 17 Q. — Into the garage or near the garage, or was 18 there a point in which they disappeared from your sight? 19 A. I wasn't the one that was watching them. 20 There was other representatives of the Police 21 Department. I'm just telling you how I have always done 22 my trash pulls. 23 Q. So standard practice would be to have an 24 agreement on a time that you would meet the trash people 25 outside the target's residence. • • Page 359 1 before you commenced your responsibilities m this 2 investigation? 3 A. Before and during. 4 Q. And there was always cooperation by the Palm 5 Beach Sanitation Department, correct? 6 A. Correct 7 Q. They were, in fact, directed not to disclose 8 to Mr. Epstein that they were seizing his trash, not 9 just to bring it to the dump, but to bring it to the 10 officers, correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And again, this was done not under your watch, 13 but under your supervision while you were case agent on 14 the 2005 fall Epstein investigation, correct? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And from the trash, different leads were 17 found; is that right? 38 A. Correct. 19 Q. Leads that might not have been found had you 20 not gone through the trash? 21 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 22 THE WITNESS: I would say some, but not all. 23 BY MR. WEINBERG: 24 • Q. And you saw some message pads? 25 • A. Copies of the messages, yes. • PROSE COURT 'REPORTING AGENCY Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 1 11 (Pages 356 to 359) INC.. ( c6062637-abo1462c-a836-bc614.314d7a EFTA00298223 2 1 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 360 Q. And you later teamed what they were as a result of your having gone to Mr. Epstein's home on October 20th, pursuant to a warrant, and seized large numbers of message pads, correct? A. Correct Q. And there were also notes that weren't on message pads, correct, that were seized from the garbage? A. Correct Q. Notes that were on Mr. Epstein's own pad with his own name on it, correct? A. Correct Q. And some of those notes related to his business, if you know? • A. I don't believe so. Q. But some of the messages led you to phone numbers and the names of different people, such as correct? A. Correct. Q. And since Ms. M. was first interviewed on January 9,2006, is it fair to say that the trash pull from which her identity was first revealed, occurred in the fall 2005 period while you were case agent? A. I don't know. Without seeing the actual • message, I can't commit to that kind of answer. Page 362 1 Q. Was it your understanding that Ms. M. had 2 been there months before January 9, '06 as contrasted 3 two years? 4 A. As far as, I'm sorry? 5 Q. When you interviewed her on January 9,'06 6 A. Right. 7 Q. — was she telling you of events that occurred 8 years before or months before, if you recall? 9 A. I can't recall. 10 Q. But you do meal! M. was her contact; she 11 was the person who invited her to go to Mr. Epstein's 12 home? 13 A. I believe so. 14 Q. And M. was currently in love with 15 Mr. Epstein in or around the same time period? 16 A. That's what she claimed to me. 17 Q. And did your investigation disclose whether 18 Ms. M. was currently seeing Mr. Epstein in the fall of 19 2005 into the early 2006? 20 A. I can't recall if she was still going to the 21 residence. 22 Q. Ms. ■ told you she was originally told she 23 would be able to model lingerie for a wealthy Palm 24 Beecher, is that correct? 25 A. That's what I documented. That's what she Page 361 1 Q. Did Ms... tell you when, in relation to 2 January 9, 2006, she had last been to Mr. Epstein's 3 home? 4 A. I can't recall. 5 Q. Did you ask these witnesses, whom you were 6 interviewing, what time period they recall being at his 7 house? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And if there is nothing in the report, would 10 that reflect — II A. Well, you're looking at the probable cause 12 affidavit The report will reflect more. 13 .Q. The incident report was — the probable cause 14 affidavit was a subset of the affidavit — strike that. 15 The affidavit is a subset of the incident 16 teport. 17 A. Correct 18 Q. If it's not in the incident report, then does 19 that reflect that you did not ask that question of .? 20 A. I would have asked regardless. 21 Q. Did it inflect that she didn't give you an • 22 answer? 23 A. Some witnesses were able to recall specifics; 24 others were not able to recall exactly when, pinpoint 25 what time. Page 363 1 told me. 2 Q. And that she was taken to Mr. Epstein's home 3 at El Brillo Way by Ms. M.; is that consistent with 4 your memory? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And Ms... introduced her to Mr. Epstein; is 7 that correct? 8 A. Yes. 9 lIl And you have no independent memory that 10. Ms. M. ever said that she had any conversation with 11 Mr. ein prior to her being introduced to him by 12 Ms. M.; is that correct? 13 . A. If she had prior conversations with — 14 Q. Yes, with Mr. Epstein before sbe was brought 15 to the house and introduced — 16 A. I can't recall whether she said that or not. 17 I don't believe so. 18 Q. Let me broaden it. Most of the people, if not 19 all of people who you interviewed, were introduced to 20 Mr. Epstein by some other young woman; is that correct? 21 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 22 THE WITNESS: Correct. 23 BY MR. WE114BERO: 24 . Q. Whether Ms... was one,.., correct? 25 • A. Right. • 12 (Pages 360 Lo 363) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY INC. ( Electronically signed by Jeana Rlcciuti (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Rlcciuti (601 c5062637abe1.452c-aS3Sbe814a314d/a EFTA00298224 Page 364 Page 366 '1 Q. M. was the second; is that correct, that 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 brought people to his house? 2 Q. Or make phone calls to people that she was not 3 A. (Non-verbal response). 3 introduced to, correct? 4 Q. The routine and practice was for the pimple 4 MS. ARBOUR: Object to fonn. 5 that were introduced to him not to have had any prior 5 THE WITNESS: I knew she made several phone 6 conversations with him until they were introduced by an 6 calls, but it was to people that she knew that had 7 intermediary lace Ms. ■ or Ms. M.; is that correct? 7 been to the house previously. 8 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 9 Q. Sure. So let me take it one step back then. 10 BY MR. WEINBERG: 10 The routine and practice was for one — let's focus on 11 Q. And in fact, there were no exceptions to that 11 — for a woman such as Ms. M., to introduce 12 rule as fares you currently remember? 12 Mr. Epstein to people that she had met or who were her 13 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 13 friends, correct? 14 THE WITNESS: As far as I can recall. 14 A. Uh-huh. 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 15 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 16 Q. I mean, you have no — you don't recall any 16 BY MR. WEINBERG: 17 information that Mr. Epstein was out himself personally 17 Q. And likewise, the.. introduction of.. 18 trying to connect with young strange women. 18 fa that standard practice of one woman taking a second 19 A. No. 19 woman to Mr. Epstein and introducing them, correct? 20 Q. And likewise, you have no evidence that 20 MS. ARBOUR Object to form. 21 Mr. Epstein was e-mailing people that he didn't know 21 THE WITNESS: Correct. 22 attempting to ask than or invite than or recruit than to 22 BY MR. WEINBERG: 23 come to his home. 23 Q. And Ms. IIR, at least, told you during your 24 A. No. 24 interview with her in the first week of October 2005, 25 Q. And you have no evidence that Mr. Epstein, 25 that all of the young women that she introduced to Page 365 Page 367 1 himself; personally was on a telephone trying to connect 1 Jeffrey Epstein knew exactly why they were going to 2 with people to whom he had not previously been 2 . Mr. Epstein's home. 3 introduced, correct? 3 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 4 A. People not known to him? 4 MS. FINNIGAN: Joined. 5 Q. Yes. 5 THE WITNESS: That is what I recall during the 6 A. No, not that I'm aware of. 6 interview. Q. And so that an one — let me ask the same 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 8 questions for Ms. You're familiar with 8 Q. And that was corroborated by your reading the 9 her, are you not? 9 report that M. said that she knew what she was doing 10 A. Yes. 10 before she went to Mr. Epstein's home, correct? 11 Q. And you have no evidence that she was out 11 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 12 driving around the Palm Beach area looking to meet some 12 • TIME WITNESS: I believe so, yes. 13 young woman who she, herself, could go and introduce to 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 Mr. Epstein, correct? 14 Q. It was corroborated by others who were 15 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 15 identified by M. and thereafter interviewed by you and 16 BY MR.. WEINBERG: 16 others working with you, correct? 17 Q. People that she had never previously met? 17 • MS. ARBOUR: Fenn. 18 MS. ARBOUR: Same objection. .18 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 19 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware of. 19 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 • Q. So that at least for the.. group, if I can 21 Q. And likewise, no evidence that she would 21 • • confine than to by definition the people introduced to 22 e-mail people who she was not introduced to? 22 Mr. Epstein by Ms. M., none of them ever informed you 23 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 23 that they had gone there under a misapprehension as to 24 THE WITNESS: Not that Im aware of. 24 what was expected of them, correct? 25 25 • MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 13 (Pages 364 to 367) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. . • Electronically signed by Jeans RIccliM (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 c60626374b01412c4836-bc614•3144ffis EFTA00298225 Page 368 1 TIM WITNESS: Under the ■ group we're 2 taring about? 3 BY MR. WEINBERG: 4 Q. Yes. Let me break it down. Ms... 5 identified approximately six people that she had 6 introduced to Mr. Epstein. 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And each of them was invited by Ms... to go 9 to Mr. Epstein's residence, correct? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And Mr. Epstein did not know any of these six 12 yotmnvomen prior to being introduced to them by 13 Ms. M., correct? 14 MS. ARBOUR: Fonn. 15 THE WITNESS: As far as I 'mow, yes. 16 BY MR. WEINBERG: 17 Q. And you have no knowledge that IMI=, 18 or anyone else that resided at Mr. Epstein's home on 19 El Brillo had any prior or independent relation with any 20 of the six girls that was being introduced to 21 Mr. Epstein by Ms. M.; is that correct? 22 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: As far as I know. 24 BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 Q. Ms. H.R. was asked by you and told you that Recto 370 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 Q. And they came from her pool of friends or 3 associates or people that she made an independent 4 decision to sec whether or not they wanted to go and 5 meet Mr. Epstein, correct? 6 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 7 ME WITNESS: Correct 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 Q. And the people that she invited to 10 Mr. Epstein's house had a choice; they could go to 11 Mr. Epstein's house, give him a massage and be paid or 12 decline to go to Mr. Epstein's house and not give him a 13 massage and not be paid, correct? 14 MS. ARBOUR: FORM 15 THE WITNESS: Correct 16 BY MR. WEINBERG: 17 Q. And did Ms... tell you there wine people 18 that she talked to who decided they didn't want to go to 19 Mr. Epstein's home? 20 A. I can't recall if she actually gave me names 21 of people that she offered to take there and declined. 22 Q. But if you take age out of the equation, 23 you'll agree there arc other residents in Palm Beach 24 that invite people to their homes to engage in paid 25 massages? Page 369 1 she had a practice of telling each and every one of the 2 people she invited to Mr. Epstein's home, that they were 3 to give Mr. Epstein a massage? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And that they could set their own limits while 6 giving Mr. Epstein a massage? 7 MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: I recall her saying the more you 9 do, the more you get paid. 10 BY MR. WEINBERG: 11 Q. But do you recall her also saying that you 12 don't have to do anything you don't want to do? 13 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 14 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q. And she told each and every one of the people 17 she invited that they would be paid for the massage, 18 correct? 19 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 20 THE WITNESS: Correct 21 BY MR. WEINBERG: 22 Q. And she chose the people that she invited to 23 introduce to Mr. Epstein, coned? 24 MS. ARBOUR: Font 25 THE WITNESS: As far as I know, yes. Page 371 1 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 2 THE WITNESS: What do you mean? 3 BY MR. WEINBERG: 4 Q. I mean, in your history with the Palm Beach 5 Police Department, that have been residents of Palm 6 Beach that have called massage services or escort 7 services and utilized their services, correct? 8 MS. ARBOUR: Same objection. 9 THE WITNESS: I know there are legitimate 10 masseuses that come to the residences and provide 11 massages, if that's what you're trying to claim, 12 yes. 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 Q. I'm not trying to claim anything. 15 A. No, no, no. But I mean, if that's what you're 16 trying to get at, absolutely, if that was your question. 17 Q. And there were also, to your knowledge as an 18 experienced professional officer, there are some not so 19 legitimate escort and massage services that have clients 20 in the Palm Beach area, correct? 21 A. Oh, I'm sure, yeah. 22 Q. And that this is not a prosecutorial target 23 for the Palm Beach Police to go and target at least 24 adult massages, even if they include a sexual element; 25 is that correct? 14 (Pages 368 Lo 371) PROSE COURT. REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601M Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 c5062637-abet452c-a836-bc614e314d7a EFTA00298226 Page 372 Page 374 1 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 2 THE WITNESS: If there is a crime that's being 3 committed in the Town of Palm Beach, we'll follow 4 upon it. 5 BY MILWEINBERG: 6 Q. But you don't go and look for it 7 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 8 THE WITNESS: When I say that we would solicit 9 it? 10 BY MR. WEINBERG: 11 Q. Yes. 12 A. Probably not. Once we start to see a pattern, 13 especially in the hotels, yes, we would because we have 14 done stings in the past 15 Q. Can you recall in the last fwe years any 16 resident of Palm Beach, a person with a house there, 17 getting arrested for having the paid services of 18 masseuse in their home? 19 A. Are you talking a legitimate masseuse? 20 Q. Any masseuse, legitimate or illegitimate. 21 A. I mean, there's no crime against having a 22 massage at your house. 23 Q. I low about a paid massage that you had a basis 24 to believe was sexual as well as pwfiasional, is there 25 any resident of that island that's — 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 an escort or a masseuse into their own private residence, at least over the last five years, correct? A. I'm trying to think back I know we did make an arrest off an escort service whae a subject telephoned an escort service for sexual favors, and we ended up soliciting an arrest warrant for the individual for solicitation of prostitution. Q. And that resulted from your investigation of the escort service, correct? A. Based on the interview conducted with him and believe the escort herself. . Q. So one in five years? This is not an everyday investigatory priority of the Palm Beach Police, correct? A. No. We have other cases that we follow up on, but.. Q. And as you sit here now, you remember one 'event, one such arrest in five years? A. That I can recall. I man... Q. Fair enough. Let's go back to II. THE WITNESS: Can we take a five-minute break? MS. O'CONNOlt: Sure. We need a five-minute break. (A brief recess was taken.) BY MR. WEINBERG: Page 373 1 A. We have followed up on eases. 2 Q. Is there anyone that you remember in the lest 3 five years that lives in Palm Beach, owns a house on 4 Palm Beach, had a escort or masseuse come to their home 5 and got prosecuted? 6 MS. ARBOUR: Fenn. 7 THE WIINESS: We have had instances where 8 officers have encountered escorts leaving the 9 residences of certain residents in the Town of Palm 10 Beach. They were documented on an intelligence 11 report and we would follow up on it the following 12 day or the day after. We go to their house and 13 identify what escort services, and we have done 14 stings, reverse stings where we contact the escort 15 services. 16 BY MR. WEINBERG: 17 Q. But in those cases, you would be investigating 18 the escorts, not the escortee or not the john? I'm not 19 trying to be difficult 20 A. No, no, no. Pm just — 21 Q. The fact is that in the last five years — 22 A. Pm eying to give you, you 'mow, examples. 23 Q. You've investigated for businesses that have 24 engaged in prostitution, but you have not, to your 25 memory, arrested any citizen of Palm Beach for inviting Page 375 1 Q. Go back to several areas that we didn't 2 complete. Back to this witness list that you saw in 3 Chief Reiter's office and that Chief Reiter represented 4 to you he was under a directive to destroy, do you know 5 whether or not a copy of that list was made so that it 6 would be available in the event there was a public 7 records request? 8 A. I don't believe so. 9 Q. Do you know whether or not the directive to 10 destroy was given in anticipation of the public records 11: request? 12 A. That, I don't 'mow. 13 Q. Would that document have been within the 14 response to a public records request? 15 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 16 BY MR. WEINBERG: 17 Q. If you know. 18 A. I have no idea. 19 Q. And if that document became part of the case 20 file of the investigation or prosecution of Epstein, it 21 would be suhjcct to a public records request, at least 22 according to what you know about public records, 23 correct? 24 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 25 THE WITNESS: If it was submitted into AC•••••.• 15 (Pages 372 to 375) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY,' INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ftictletl (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciutl (601 c60626374130-46264130-bc814•314d7a EFTA00298227 Page 376 , Page 378 I evidence or the attachment file. 1 Q. Yes, for sexual conduct occurring between two 2 BY MR. WEINBERG: • 2 consenting human beings at a restaurant — at a 3 Q In terms of your memory dating back five 3. residence. • 4 years, I asked you about whether you recalled any 4 MS. ARBOUR: Fenn. 5 resident of Palm Beach being arrested for the we or the 5 THE WITNESS: That I can recall. 6 misuse of an escort or massage service, correct? 6 BY MR. WEINBERG: 7 A. Correct. 7 . Back to Ms... She was invited there by 8 Q. And your best manory was that you recall there 8 M., correct? 9 was one such incident, correct? 9 A. I believe so, yes. 10 A. Correct. 10 Q. If you believe Ms..., Ms... deceived her 11 Q. And you do recall investigations of 11 as to the purpose of her going there, correct? 12 prostitution businesses, do you not? 12 A. She was going to go there to model is what I 13 A. Yes. 13 recall. 14 Q. And investigations and escort or massage 14 Q. And.., to your knowledge, had previously 15 businesses that you expected or had reason to believe 15 gone to Mr. Epstein's residence with other people? 16 were prostitution businesses, correct? 16 A. I believe so. 17 A. Correct. 17 Q. And those other people ended up giving a 18 Q. AM those investigations would be oriented 18 massage to Mr. Epstein? 19 towards targeting the people that made money from the 19 A. I believe so. 20 sale of sex, correct? 20 Q. And none of those people that M. brought to 21 A. Correct 21 Mr. Epstein's residence later represented to you that 22 Q. On the flip side, when I asked you about 22 M. said that the only object of the visit was to 23 residents of Palm Beach, twos asking you about people 23 model; is that correct? 24 that would be known as johns, correct? In other 24 A. Repeat that one more time. 25 words — 25 Q. The other people that you interviewed who said Page 377 Page 379 1 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 1 that Ms... brought them to Mr. Epstein's residence, 2 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 did not also tell you that they had gone there under a 3 Q. — the customers of a prostitution business. 3 false impression, correct? 4 MS. ARBOUR: Same. 4 A. Ica& recall. 5 771E WITNESS: Correct. 5 Q. If it's in your incident report — 6 BY MR. WEINBERG: 6 A. It would be in there. 7 Q. And the same question, you recall only one 7 Q. — they told you, and if its not in there, 8 person who resides in Palm Beach who was prosecuted for 8 then these different individuals were representing to 9 being a customer of a prostitution business using them 9 you that they knew that they were going there to give 10 to come to his borne, correct? 10 Mr. Epstein a massage? 11 A. I believe so. 11 A. Right, it would have been in the re 12 Q. Do you recall the name of that person? 12 Q. Now, none of the women that Ms. M. invited 13 A. Not off the top of my head. 13 to meet Mr. Epstein ever told you that they went there 14 Q. Take it back ten years, do you recall any 14 for any purpose other than to give him a massage, 15 second such prosecution of a residence of Palm Beach for 15 correct? 16 ming the services of a prostitution or massage or 16 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 17 escort business? 17 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 18 A. Again, we do hold stings in certain hotels, 18 BY MR. WEINBERG: 19 the Breakers, the Four Seasons, the Marriott, where 19 Q. And Ms. El. to Mr. Epstein 20 women and men both go to the bars and solicit. 20. %introduced according to what told you on January 9, 2006, 21 Q. But in terms of private residences, in your 21 correct? 22 entire professional life on the Palm Beach Police 22 • A. Correct 23 Department, you only recall one such arrest and 23 lil?And Ms. • told that Mr. Epstein, 24 prosecution, correct? 24 Ms. M. and Mr. [sic] M. had a conversation at 25 A. At a residence? 25. ' Mr. Epstein's house, correct?. 16 (Pages 376 to 379) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, 'INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Riccluti (601 Electronically signed by Jeans Riccluti (601 65012637-abel-4624-4834-bc014•314474 EFTA00298228 Page 380 Page 382 1 A. I believe so. 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And then Ms... told you that both Ms. 2 Q. And Ms... removed her pants and blouse, 3 and Mr. Epstein brought her upstairs into a master 3 correct? 4 bedroom area, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 A. Yes, if it's in the report, that's... 5 Q. And she didn't say that she tried to run out 6 Q. And then Ms. M. observed a large massage 6 and couldn't get away or anything like that; is that 7 table with a sheet on it; is that your memory that 7 right? 8 Ms. M. told you that she, after meeting Mr. Epstein, A. Correct. 9 she went upstairs to an area of Mr. Epstein's home where Q. Otherwise, those kind of statements would be 10 there was a massage table? 10 clearly incorporated into this probable cause affidavit, 11 A. I believe so. 11 right? 12 Q. And did she tell you that Mr. Epstein came 12 A. Correct. 13 into that area wearing a towel, and that Ms. 13 Q. Because the affidavit was designed to persuade 14 informed Ms. M. they were going to provide Mr. Epstein 14 a judge that there was sufficient evidence to charge 15 with a massage? 15 Mr. Epstein and others with criminal offenses against 16 A. I believe so. 16 the State of Florida. 17 Q. And that when asked M. why they were 17 A. I wouldn't say persuade, but I would state the 18 doing this, explained to that they were going 18 facts. 19 to rub Ins calves and feet? 19 Q. And the purpose of stating the facts was to 20 A. I believe so. 20 fill out what you concluded was probable cause to 21 Q. And that Ms. M. didn't leave the massage 21 warrant the State Attorney from prosecuting Mr. Epstein 22. area at this time, according to her statement to you; is .22 fora criminal offense? 23 that right? 23 A. Correct. 24 A. Right. 24 Q. And this was done by you on May I, 2006, 25 Q. Then Ms. M. told you that she began to 25 correct? Page 381 Page 383 1 partiate in this massage with Mr. Epstein and 1 A. Correct. 2 Ms. MI, correct? 2 Q. When matters were relatively fresh as 3 A. I believe so. 3 contrasted to how they are in April of 2010? 4 Q. And that Mr. Epstein asked her to get 4 A. Yes. 5 comfortable, do you recall that? 5 Q. And when you prepared this problem cause 6 A. I believe so. 6 affidavit, you were largely relying on your supplemental 7 Q. And that Nis... elected to take off her 7 - reports in the omnibus Palm Beach incident report, clothes leaving on only her pants; is that correct or 8 correct? 9 panties? 9 A. Correct 10 Do you want to read this? 10 Q. And you were not relying to your current 11 A. If you don't mint 11 memory on any tape recording of this statement on 12 Q. This is page 20 of E:dtibit I, which is 12 January 9th with Ms. M., were you? 13 Detective Reearey's — 13 A. A tape recording? 14 MR. PIKE: If you would, could you please turn 14 Q. Yes. 15 to that page because there's some writing on this 15 A. Like I said, I have reviewed tape recordings 16 one and I don't want to — 16 that I've conducted on interviews. 17 MR. WEINBERG: This is not the incident 17 Q. Which ones did you listen to before you 18 report This is the probable cause affidavit 18 executed an affidavit on May I st? 19 MS. ARBOUR: I have an extra one, I think. 19. A. I couldn't tell you. 20 MR. WEINBERG: Thank you. 20 Q. Would you have a note, record, diary, 21 BY MR. WEINBERG: 21 reference — 22 Q. Were on page 20, about five or six lines 22 A. No. 23 down. In paragraph I, Epstein told Ms. M. to get 23 Q. — any way to construct which ones you 24 comfortable. Actually, its seven lines down on the 24 listened to? 25 left side, page 20. 25 A. No. 17 (Pages 380 to 383) ( 561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, Electronically signed by Jeana Medea (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 INC. c50626374the1452e-0364n6144414d7a EFTA00298229 Page 384 1 Q. Tape recordings would, of course, be the most 2 reliable predicate for what, in fact, a witness told 3 you, correct? 4 MS. ARBOUR: Object to form. 5 BY MR. WEINBERG: 6 Q. But they are also longest to wade through. correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form 9 BY MR. WEINBERG: 10 Q. In other words, they take more time to hear 11 than reading a summary would take to read? 12 MS. ARBOUR: Same objection. 13 THE WITNESS: As far as, like, if you heard 14 it? 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q. Yes. It would take you however many hours — 17 A. Right, depending on the length of the 18 interview. I mean, some could have been an hour, some 19 could have been two hours. 20 Q. How long was the lengthy one, if you remember?. 21 A. I believe it was — it would have been over an 22 hour. She was still in high school and she had to get 23 back. 24 Q. But you have no memory that you, in fact, 25 listened to Ms. tape at or before the time you 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 386 A. I may have listened to Ms. Jane Doc 103's interview while I was doing the supplement. Q. But you have no memory as you sit here now that you listened to it in the last days of April or around May 1, 2006, before summarizing the recitation by Ms. Jane Doe 103 into this probable cause affidavit, correct? A. If I listened to it prior to writing the PC? is that what you're asking me — Q. Yes. Yes. A. — if I listened to it prior to writing the Q. Yes, prior to. A. No, I can't recall if I did or didn't. Q. And I'll ask the same questions regarding your preparation of the search warrant affidavit. You had tape recordings available to you, did you not? A. Yes, I did. Q. This investigation generated approximately 22 tapes? A. Approximately. Q. Most of which were generated before October 18, 2005 when you authored an affidavit setting to search Mr. Epstein's private residence, correct? A. Correct Page 385 1 summarized your memory of your conversations with her 2 into this affidavit on May 1st, correct? 3 A. I can't say if I did or didn't. 4 Q. And the same thing with do you recall 5 whether or not that was one of the tapes you listened to 6 before summarizing what she had said to you in October 7 of 2005 into this probable cause affidavit? 8 A. M.'s was different. M.'s was a videotape 9 conducted at the Palm Beach Police Department. 10 02Did you watch and listen to the videotape of 11 the M. interview? 12 A. I may have. 13 . Q. But you don't recall which ones you didn't or • 14 did, correct? 15. A. Correct. 16 Q. And same with Jane Doe 103, October II, 2005, 17 interview in Tallahassee, that was tape recorded, was it 16 not? 19 A. Yes, it was. 20 Q. The telephone call the day before was not tape 21 recorded; is that correct? ' 22 A. I may have recorded that one. .23 . Q. .Do you recall whedier.you listened to either • 24. • or both of those tape recordings prior to executing the 25 May 1, 2006 affidavit? Page 387 1 Q Did you listen to all of those tape recordings 2 prior to drafting an affidavit that was intended to 3 result in the judicial authorization of a search and 4 seizure of Mr. Epstein's residence? A. I may have, as I was doing my supplements. 6 Q. Pm directing myself towards the time period 7 when you were drafting the affidavit that was going to 8 be filed with the judge to ask for permission to search 9 Mr. Epstein's residence. 10 Did you listen to those tapes contemporaneous 11 • with your authoring the search warrant affidavit? 12 A. I can't recall if f did or didn't. 13 Q. If you did, would there be any note, report, 14 log entry that you did? 15 A. Not that I've kept am, no. 16 Q. You don't have a current memory of being at a 17 typewriter typing in your affidavit fora search 18 warrant -- 19 A. We don't utilize a typewriter, but — 20 Q. A computer? 21 A. A computer. 22 Q. It shows my age. 23 You typed into a computer the affidavit that 24 ultimately went to a judge to -- 25 A. Correct (561)—832-7.500 18 (Pages 384 to 387) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY,'INC. • S Electronically signed by Jeana Rice-lug (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Riccluti (601 c5062637-abet -452c-a836-bc614e314d7a EFTA00298230 Page 388 1 Q. seek authority to search Mr. Epstein's 2 home? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. And you did that in your office? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And in your office, is there a tape recorder? 7 A. Yes, we do have tape recorders. We have — 8 Q. And you had access to the tape recordings of 9 the witness interviews, did you not, at the time? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And you don't recall today whether or not you 12 listened to any or. all of them at or around the time 13 that you drafted the search warrant affidavit? 14 A. I can't recall if I did or didn't 15 . Q. Your best memory is that you relied on the 16 supplemental reports authored by you as the predicate 17 for what you represented to 'judge warranted his • 18 authorizing a search and seizure of Mr. Epstein's 19 property, correct? 20 A. Correct 21 Q. Back to Ms... This is the first time she 22 was at Mr. Epstein's home that she was telling you about 23 on January 9th, correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And she ultimately told you about two Page 390 1 Q. And Ms. M. said she started to nib 2 Mr. Epstein's 'chest; is that correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. AM that's in addition to what she had been . 5 told, which is that she and Ms. M. were going to rub 6. his calls and feet; is that right? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And she didn't say at this time that she in 9 any way was being forced or coerced into giving 10 Mr. Epstein a massage, correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Mr. Epstein, according to her recollection, 13 began to masturbate; is that right? 14 A. Yes, as he stroked her vagina. 15 Q. But she told you that Mr. Epstein was touching 16 her breast and touching her vagina; is that correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And she didn't tell yon she protested or 19 objected to such touching, did she? 20 A. No. 21 Q. Because it would be in your report? 22 A. It would be in the report if it did. 23 Q. And she then told you that she was paid $200 24 for the massage, correct? 25 A. Correct. Page 389 1 occasions that she went there; is that correct? 2 A. I believe so. 3 Q. And she, in fact, went back a third time, did 4 she not? Did she not? 5 A. I can't recall whether she — how many times 6 she went without looking at it. 7 Q. Let's first look at what's in front of you, 8 which is the probable cause aflidaviL She removed her 9 pants and blouse, correct? 10 A. Correct. 11 Q. And that was a voluntarily act on her part in 12 response to Mr. Epstein telling her to getting 13 comfortable, correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And that she stayed only in panties because 16 she didn't have a bra on that evening, correct? 7 A. Correct. 18 Q. So she took off her shirt and, therefore, was 19 naked froni the waist up; is that right? • 20 A. Correct 21 Q. AM Ms... was still there; is that right? 22 A. (Non-verbal response). 23 Q. And the two of them were massaging 24 Mr. Epstein? 25 A. Yes. Page 391 1 Q. And she was tearful, at least during parts of 2 this interview; is that correct? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. But she didn't tell you that she refused the 5 $200, correct? 6 A. Right. 7 Q. And she didn't tell you that she was so 8 tranwiatizni injured or damaged by this incident that 9 she didn't voltmtarily return several days later, 10 coned? 11 A. I'm sorry, one more time. 12 Q. She didn't tell you that she was traumatized 13 by this event at the time it occurred, did she? 14 A. I don't recall her saying that she was 15 traumatized. 16 Q. Or in any way injured because she, infect, 17 was Invited to return and did return several days later 18 alone; is that right? 19 A. I believe so. 20. . In other words, she told you, if you recall, 21 that she received several days later a telephone call 22 from la is that correct? 23. . A. Correct. . 24 Q. And who essentially invited for to conic back, 25 correct? PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, Electronically signed by Jeana Ricclutl (MI Electronically signed by Jeana Ricdutl (401 19 (Pages 388 to 391 INC. c5062637.abol-462c-a836-bc614e31ed7a EFTA00298231 Page 392 Page 394 1 A. Right, to work. 2 Q. And this time, she wasn't with M . ? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. AM she elected to return to Mr. Epstein's 5 house, this time knowing that it was not to model 6 lingerie? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And in fad, went back on her own as a 9 response to Ms. inviting her to give Mr. Epstein 10 a second massage? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. And again, Mr. Epstein — she went upstair to 13 Mr. Epstein's bedroom area and gave Mr. Epstein a 14 massage, correct? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. And again, she was paid for that massage, 17 correct? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And she didn't, between the dates of these tvio 20 massages and the date you went to her house on 21 January 9, 2006, or went to her school, she didn't call 22 you or didn't ask her parents to call you to complain 23 about the conduct that occurred at El Brillo, correct? 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. Now, if we switch for a second from your 1 If we start on 73 since it's redacted, I 2 want to assure you I'm talking about what I believe to 3 be the same interview on January 9, 2006. Paragraph 3 4 is. telling you she was told she could model 5 lingerie, and then much of the same right up to the last 6 sentence where she stated she went to Mr. Epstein's 7 house three or four times total. 8 - A. Right. 9 Q. And then on the next paragraph, she was 10 telling you that she once brought a friend? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. Some of the young women told you they were 13 terribly upset while talking to you; is that correct? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And they had a variety of reasons to be upset, 16 didn't they? 17 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 18 BY MR. WEINBERG: 19 Q. To your knowledge. 20 A. To my knowledge, yeah, absolutely. 21 Q. One thing is that some of the women yawere 22 interviewing, for instance Ms... and Ms. M., twit: 23 actively bringing third parties to visit Mr. Epstein; k 24 that correct? 25 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 393 affidavit to your incident report, do you recall that she went back a third time and brought a friend a third time? A. I believe — I believe she may have brought someone. Q. AM do you recall who she brought? A. Not off the top of my head, no. Q. AM do you recall writing on page 74 of your incident report that she once brought a friend, and she said that she didn't know the last name, to give Mr. Epstein a massage and that she was paid $200 for . bringing a friend? A. !can't readL Q. Perhaps you can read page 74 and see if that refreshes your recollection. A. Page 74? Q. Yes. Just to orient you, it's her interviews with you start on page 73. The first of January 9, 2006. There's some redactions, but if you refer to paragraph 3, you'll sec that she was the person who told you she could model lingerie and then it continues. A. I think your 74 is different than this 74. Q. We have different reports? May I sec yours for a second? 1 THE WITNESS: Correct. 2 BY MR. WEINBERG: 3 Q. And being paid for it? 4 MS. ARBOUR: Fa 5 TIIE WITNESS: Yes. 6 BY MR. WEINBERG: 7 Q. And that constitutes a violation of the 8 Florida statutes, does it not? 9 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 10 THE WITNESS: For unlicensed massages or... 11 BY MR. WEINBERG: 12 Q. For any and — I mean, did you believe that 13 you threatened Ms... with a criminal prosecution, did 14 you not, when she was videotaped on October 5, 2005 15 being interviewed? 16 MS. ARBOUR Form. 17 • THE WITNESS: I didn't threaten Ms..., but 18 I did explain to her that what she did was illegal. 19 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 Q. Was illegal? 21 A. Right .22 Q. And similarly, what Ms... did was illegal? 23 • MS. ARBOUR: Fain.. 24 • BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 Q. In your mind. 20 (Pages 392 to 395) PROSE. COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC." Electronically signed by Jeans Medlin (601 Electronically signed by Jeans Riccluti (601 e6082637-abel-48204836-be614•314dra EFTA00298232 Page 396 MS. ARDOUR: Same objection. 2 THE WITNESS: Pretty much. I mean, you 3 4 BY MR. WEINBERG: 5 Q. Did you ever conduct a criminal investigation 6 of Ms. M.? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Did you ever conduct any followup 9 investigation of Ms... when she declined to speak to 10 you? 11 A. No. 12 Q. To your knowledge, did you or anyone else in 13 the Palm Beach Police Department have any contact with 14 Ms. M . during the time period of this investigation 15 which began in March of '05 and ended in December of 16 '06? 17 A. I spoke to her that one time and didn't speak 18 to her again. 19 Q. Eva seen a report from anyone else in Palm 20 Beach that ever spoke to her? 21 A. I don't believe anyone else spoke with her.' 22 Q. And you did no background on her to your best 23 recollection in terms of her character, her reputation, 24 her credibility, correct? 25 A. No. Page 398 1 to her and her father that she had lied to her father 2 about her visit with Mr. Epstein, correct? 3 A. Again, I don't know if she lied to her father. 4 I know she went there originally with the intentions to 5 model. 6 Q. But she never told her father she had been 7 paid for topless massages, comet? 8 A. Not to my knowledge. 9 Q. And her father told you what he knew of what 10 she had done or not done with Mr. Epstein, collect? 11 A. As far as he knew, yes. 12 Q. And clearly, there was at least a lie by 13 omission from Ms. M. to the father or the father to 14 you, correct, because Ms.. was telling you she did 15 far more than her father told you she did? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And she was not the only minor that you 18 interviewed, correct? 19 A. Correct. 20 Q. And therefore, Mr. I was not the only parent 21 • that you had occasion to say that you were doing an 22 investigation in which their daughter was either a 23 witness or a victim, coned? 24 A. Correct. 25 • Q. And you know, from having conducted followup 8 9 10 1/ 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 .24 25 Page 397 Q. Likewise, Ms. did you do any background to determine whether she was a credible, trustworthy, reliable source of information about Mr. Epstein? A. Based on the sworn taped statement that I took of Ms. M., I mean, she had specific knowledge as to persons within the home, descriptions of the home, within the home, within the bath — you know, the bedroom, the bathroom area. Q. But she was telling you, was she not, that she was emotionally — had emotional consequences to what she did; is that right? She was crying at different times she was talking to you; is that right? A. Absolutely. Q. And several of the girls did; is that right? A. Absolutely. Q. And one of the realities were that their parents were fording out what happened, correct? A. Yes, in some of the victims, yes, the parents did find out. Q. And that was traumatizing to them, was it not? MS. ARBOUR: Fonn. THE WITNESS: I'm sure it was embarrassing for than, yes. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. In fact, with it was becoming clear Page 399 1 and interviews, that parents learned a lot more as a 2 result of your visits than they had learned beforehand 3 regarding what had occurred between their daughters and 4 Mr. Epstein, correct? 5 MS. ARBOUR: Pam. 6 THE WITNESS: Right. 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 8 Q. And that you also knew that sane of the tears 9 that were being shed were being shed by the girls 10 because suddenly their parents were involved, correct? 11 MS. ARBOUR Form 12 THE WITNESS: I don't know if the tears were 13 because the parents were involved. I know that 14 there was a lot of shame, a lot of embarrassment 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q. A lot of fear, fear of school? 17 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 18 THE WITNESS: I know, in Ms. case, 19 she was in fear of Mr. Epstein. 20 BY MR. WEINBERG: 21 Q. And do you know in Ms. case she was 22 also in fear of her school friend in that which she had 23 done? 24 Let's step back a step. What she had done is 25 she had gotten money for a sexual massage, correct? 21 (Pages 396 to 399) PROSE COURT' REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronic/By signed by Jeans Rleekel PM= Electrote signed by Jeans Rlcdutl (401 c6062637,41301-462e4a136-bc614•31467a EFTA00298233 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 400 1 A. She got money for providing a massage while 2 Mr. Epstein touched her breasts and fondled her vagina 3 Q. Would you consider that this fans within the 4 broad ambit of prostitution? 5 MS. ARBOUR: Form 6 THE WETNESS: Prostitution would be for sex 7 for money. 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 Q. So Ms. M. did not engage in prostitution, 10 but others did, during the course of the investigation? 11 MS. ARBOUR: Form 12 • THE WITNESS: I wouldn't say others did. Ifs 13 a negotiation. If you're paying for a sex act, 14 it's a negotiation. You get X for Y. 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q. So that if the negotiation was purely for a 17 topless massage, then there was no prostitution? 18 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 19 THE WITNESS: Not in my eyes, no. 20 BY MR. WEINBERG: 21 Q. So in your eyes, were any of the so-called 22 victim/witnesses, did any of them engage in 23 prostitution? 24 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 25 THE WITNESS: Do you mean since that time, 1 2 3 5 6 7 9 I0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 402 BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Correct? MS. ARBOUR: Same objection. THE WITNESS: The negotiation part, X for Y. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. So absent the negotiation, there is no prostitution? MS. ARBOUR: Fonn. THE WITNESS: No. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And therefore, in your opinion, the women going to see Mr. Epstein were not going there pursuant to a prostitution agreement, correct? A. Coned. Q. They were going there as consenting adults or even consenting minors to do something other than prostitution? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: They were going there to provide the manage but, you're right, it wasn't prostitution. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And in fact, had some of these girls that went there who were under 18, had they been over 18, then this entire case would have been a consenting massage Page 401 or — 2 BY MR. WEINBERG: 3 Q. Well, let's start with that time, when 4 Mr. Epstein was the customer. Were any of the women 5 going to his house engaging in prostitution, in your 6 opinion? 7 MS. ARBOUR: Form 8 THE WITNESS: In my opinion? BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Yes. A. No. Q. And that included those who were going to his house who were above 18 as well as below 18, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: Like I was told, people that I interviewed that were above 18, what happened between them were between two consenting adults. BY MR. WEINBIRO: Q. And so to your mind, it's not the giving of money, it's the negotiated agreement that constitutes the essential element that distinguishes prostitution from simply a consensual act as long as the people who engaged in it were both over 18? MS. ARBOUR: Form. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 403 case, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. MS. FINNIGAN: Form. THE WITNESS: If they axle over 18? BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Yes. A. That it would have just been what, a massage ease, you mid? Q. It would have been a case between two consenting adults, other than prostitution. MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: Unless we got a complaint. BY MR. WEINBERG Which you didn't get in this case, other than the parent Mmeh '05 complaint as a result of overhearing a discussion? MS. FINNIGAN: Form. THE WITNESS: Right. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Ms... certainly, although emotional during her interview, never said that anybody forced her to return to Mr. Epstein's house on the second occasion when she gave a second massage, correct? A. Coned. Q. And she never said anybody forced her to bring 22 (Pages 400 to 403) .( 561) 832-750.0 • PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricclull (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciutf (601 c6062637-abo1-462c-a836-be614e314d7a EFTA00298234 1 2 3 4 5 Page 404 a friend over fora third visit, correct? A. Correct. . Q. And at most, your evidence reflected that there were many young women that, in fact, called Mr. Epstein's house seeking to come over to give him massages, correct? 1 2 3 4 5 . 6 7 A. Yes, there were messages from various people 7 8 that called. 8 9 Q. And that when someone in Mr. Epstein's 9 10 residence called out to any of these young people, it 10 11 was, at most, to schedule a visit, correct? • 11 12. MS. ARBOUR: Form. 12 13 THE WITNESS: Correct. 13 14 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 15 S None of these girls complained that MI 15 16 or anyone else threatened them to come over? 16 17 A. No, there was no threats to come over, no. 17 18 Q. No coercion to come over? • 18 19 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 19 20 MS. FINNIGAN: Form. 20 21 BY MR. WEINBERG: 21 22 Q. Is that correct? 22 23 A. Not thatim aware of. 23 24 Q. None of the As ever told you that their 24 25 calls with were anything more than an 25 Page 405 1 visitation to come over? 1 2 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 2 3 BY MR. WEINBERG: 3 4 Q. A scheduling call? 4 5 MS. ARBOUR: Same objection. 5 6 BY MR. WEINBERG: 6 7 Q. Correct? 7 8 A. As far as l know, yes. 8 9 Q. And the same with anyone else in Mr. Epstein's 9 10 household, no one ever said they got a phone call from 10 11 anyone who lived at El Brillo doing anything roore than 11 12 seeing if they wanted to schedule a visit, correct? 12 13 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 13 14 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 14 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 15 16 Q. No one ever said they negotiated amounts of 16 17 money on the phone; is that correct? 17 18 A. Not that I recall, no. 18 19 Q. No one ever said that they were required to . 19 20 make promises of sexual performance on the phone as a .20 21 condition of being invited to come over? 21 22 MS. ARBOUR: Form. • 22. 23 . THE WITNESS: No, I don't believe so. 23 24 ' BY MR. WEINBERG: 24 25 so thophone part of it was simply a 25 Page 406 scheduling communication, to the best of your knowledge, based on all of your many conversations with your many witnesses? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: Right BY MR. WEINBERG:. Q. And once they are at his house, none of the girls claimed that he violently forced them to do anything they didn't want; is that correct? MS. ARBOUR Form. MS. FINNIGAN: Form. THE WITNESS: There was an instance where that was a vaginal penetration. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And you recall, as soon as the person protested, Mr. Epstein apologized and stopped that act; is that right? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: I believe so, yes. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And that was Ms. Jane Doe 103? A. Yes. Q. And she was — turned 18 in December of 2004, correct? MS. FINNIGAN: Form. Page 407 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure of the time frame where she turned la. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Let me see if I can find this for you. At the bottom of page 10 of that affidavit, on September I1, 2005, WFAH, DOB, 12/30/1986 was arrested by the Palm Beach Police Department That's the same Jane Doe 103 that we're talking about, correct? It's the very last line. I'm only pointing out the date of birth. A. Yes. Q. So she was 18 as of correct? • A. What page was that, I'm sorry? Q. This is the bottom of page 10. A. She would have been 18, yes, in 2004. Q. And she didn't • you a date on this one. • A. Q. 2004. And when you interviewed Ms. Jane Doe 103 on October 10th and October 11th, and she told you about this one event where there was momentary penetration, she protested, Mr. Epstein immediately apologized and ended that sex act, that she didn't give you a date that that occurred, did she? A. I can't recall if she did or she didn't. Q. If she gave you a date, it would be in the (561) 832-7500 PROSE COURT. REPORTING .AGENCY INC. 23 (Pages 404 to 407) : ..(561) 832-75OS. Electronically signed by Jeanie Ricciutl (601 Electronically signed by Jeans Ricciutl (601 a0828374ball-4112o-e8364:614.3 • 14dfa • • EFTA00298235 Page 408 1 report - 2 A. Yes, sir. 3 Q. -- and if she didn't, either the didn't 4 remember or she wasn't asked; is that right? 5 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 6 THE WITNESS: No, I know that I would have 7 asked ha.. 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 Q. So if we don't have a date in the report as to 10 how long before October 10 and 11, 2005 that single 11 event occurred, then she didn't remember; is that right? 12 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 13 THE WITNESS: Can you ask that question one 14 more time? 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q. Sure If there's no date for that — 17 A. Then she did not recall that specific date. 18 Q. And therefore, since she was seeing 19 Mr. Epstein, according to what she told you, over some . 20 extensive period of tiro it could have occurred while 21 she was — before or it could have 22 occurred after we just have no way of 23 knowing? 24 A. It would have been before because one of the 25 last times that she met with him was when she provided Page 410 1 about five or six-month period after she turned 18 on 2 3 A. I'm trying to recall, because I do remember 4 her stating that she was going less and less. I'm 5 trying to recall, because I know she was going less and 6 less to his residence. 7 Q. Do you recall writing in this probable cause 8 affidavit that events that Jane Doe 103 advised you 9 . that her relationship continued to escalate during the 10 . period she saw Mr. Epstein? 11 A. From the beginning, yes. 12 Q. Yes, and we can — and this event where she 13 said no and Epstein stopped, was an escalation of their 14 contact in an earlier appearance, correct? A. I'm trying to recall. She had gone to his 16 house — she had been going to his house for several 17 years, and I think that was the escalation, what you . 18 meant. 19 Q. And it's fair to say that some subset of those • 20 couple of years occurred after she turned IS, and a 21 significant part of it was before she turned 18, 22 coned? 23 A. The significant part, I would say -- 24 Q. If there was two years and she graduated high 25 school in the spring of 2005, then she saw him — part Page 409 1 her high school transcript because he was going to 2 assist her in getting her into a college. 3 Q. And when was that; a high school transcript? 4 The high school year ends in the spring? 5 A. It would have been, yes. 6 Q. And not in December? 7 A. Cornet 8 Q. And so if she turned 18 in December, that 9 would have been in the middle of her senior year in high 10 school? 11 A. Correct 12 Q. And therefore, she continued to see 13 Mr. Epstein after she was 18 and up to the period 14 immediately before her graduation in the spring of 2005, 15 cornea? 16 Let me date it another way. She was a • 17 freshman at college when you went to see her in October 18 of 2005? 19 A. Correct. ' • 20 • . Q. Therefore, she was a senior in high school up • • 21 through the spring of 2005? 22 A. Correct. 23 Q. And therefore, since she gave Mr. Epstein her 24 transcript, shortly before or at the time of her. 25 graduation, she was still seeing Mr. Epstein for this Page 411 1 of it when she was 18, after she tamed 18 on 2 and part of it was before she walla, 3 correct? 4 A. I would assume so. 5 Q. And she didn't give you a date when the single 6 act, where she said no and Mr. Epstein stopped occurred, 7. it's not in your report and you don't have an 8 independent memory, correct? 9 A. Correct. ' 1.0 Q. How many times have you personally interviewed 11 Ms. Jane Doe 103? 12 A. !vane to say two. 13 Q. October in Tallahassee and then again in the 14 March period in Tallahassee again? 15 A. One was in Jacksonville, one was in 16 ' Tallahassee. 1.7 Q. And you have not personally seen her or 18 interviewed her since 2006? 19 A. I delivered a grand jury subpoena. .20 Q. To her in April 2006? 21 • A, I believe so. 22 Q. And have you ever seen her since then? 23 _. , A. • No. 24 Q. Have you ever spoken to her since the grand 25 jury returned an indictment against Mr. Epstein? .(561).832-7;500 PROSE COURT Electronically signed by Jeana Ricclutl (601 Electronically signed by Jeans 'Melon (601 24 (Pages 408 to 411) REPORTING AGENCY,...INC. ..(561). 832-7506. e15062687-abe1-452c-a834143c8140314d7a EFTA00298236 Page 412 1 A. I don't believe so. 2 Q. Have you had any e-mails or text messages or 3 any communication with Ms. Jane Doe 103 in the last 4 three and a half years? . 5 A. No. 6 Q. So with Ms. M., just so I'm clear, there was 7 no intercourse between her and Mr. Epstein, correct? 8 A. I don't believe so. 9 Q. No oral sex that she complained of to you? 10 A. No. 11 Q. No forced sex she complained of to you? 12 A. • No. 13 Q. She never said that she had seen Mr. Epstein 14 anywhere outside of his residence, correct? 15 A. What do you mean? 16 Q. She never claimed that Mr. Epstein took her on 17 his airplane awhere? 18 A. Ms. IS? 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. Not that I'm aware of. 21 Q. And she never claimed that Mr. Epstein took 22 her on any trips outside of his private residence, 23 correct? 24 A. Not that I'm aware of. 25 Q. So the three or four times she and Mr. Epstein Page 414 1 Q. In other words, Mr. Epstein in now way 2 generated personal profits from any of his massages or 3. contacts with any of the witnesses that were involved in 4 your case, correct? 5 MS. ARBOUR; Form. 6 • THE WITNESS: Not that Fm aware of. 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 8 Q. You have no evidence that M. ever gave 9 Mr. Epstein money or that ■ ever gave Mr. Epstein 10 money as part of his share of these incidents, correct? 11 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 12 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware of. 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 Q. M. told you that she had met Mr. Epstein 15 about a year before pa 2005 interview; do 16 you remember that? 17 A. Uh-huh. 18 Q. And her birth dater on 19 page 15 of your affidavit, 20 A. Yes, sit 21 ' Q. So therefore, she was 18 in of 200s, 22 correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. So there she was 18 when you interviewed 25 her on 2005; is that right? Page 413 / were physically in the same location, according to her, 2 occurred exclusively on El Drilla; is that right? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Let me switch to another person 5 interviewed, M. Do you remember 6 A. Yes. 7 And do you remember interviewing her in 8 of 2005? 9 A. That would have been around that time. 10 Q. By the way, just let me step back one second. 11 When Ms... brought another girl to Mr. Epstein's 12 home, she told you she, Ms. was paid for that; is 13 that right? She was paid — 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. You have no evidence in this case that any of 16 the girls who gave Mr. Epstein massages ever paid money 17 to Mr. Epstein? 18 A. What do you mean? 19 Q. There is no money flowing back to Mr. Epstein, 20 or to any of the people employed by Mr. Epstein, from 21. any of the young women that gave him massages at his • 22 house, correct? 23 A. That money went back to Mr. Epstein? 24 Q. Yes. 25 A. Not that fm aware of. Page 415 1 • • A. Yes. 2 Q. And if she met Mr. Epstein one year before 3 your interview, then she met him when she was 17? 4 A. Or depending on the date when she met him, she 5 could have been on the edge of 16, beginning of 17. 6 Q. And do you recall who introduced her to 7 Mr. Epstein? 8 A. 1 believe it was 9 Q. And if your report reflects 10 lime Doe 103? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And she, like the others, was introduced to 13 Mr. Epstein by a third party, one of their friends; is 14 that right? 15 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 16 . • THE WITNESS: rm sorry? 17. BY MR. WEINBERG: 18 Q. Like others, she, M. was introduced to 19 Mr. ein by another young girl that was friends with 20.. Ms. M., correct? 21 A. Yes. 22 . Q. And that, in this case, was Ms. Jane Doe 103, 23 correct? 24 A. Yes. 25. Q. And Ms. Jane Doe 103 took her to Mr. Epstein's , maybe. would that be 25 (Pages 412 to 415) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY,".INC.. : Electronically signed by Jeana RIcciuti (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Rlcciuti (601 660624337-abirt-462o-a836441114•314Ca EFTA00298237 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Page 416 house, correct? A. Yes. Q. And does your report affidavit reflect a had heard that several girls were making money by providing massages to Epstein and she agreed and was taken to the house by Ms. Jane Doe 103? A. Yes. Q. So Ms. Jane Doe 103, like Ms. would tell 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 Page 418 THE WITNESS: What do you mean "profited"? BYMR. WEINBERG: Q. He didn't make any money by seeing., correct? MS. ARBOUR: Same objection. THE WITNESS: Not that Tin aware of. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. He, at most, paid for the massages he 9 people, you know, that if they went to see Mr. Epstein, 9 received, correct? 10 they were expected to give him a massage, correct? 10 MS. ARBOUR. Form. 11 MS. ARBOUR Form. 11 BY MR. WEINBERG: 12 THE WITNESS: Possibly, yes. 12 Q. That's what Ms... represented to you? 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And in this case, at least, Ms. a. went 14 Q. And on one occasion, she said when she was 17, 15 there with her eyes open? In other words, she 15 she consensually agreed to engage in sex with 16 volunteered to go there and try to make money by giving 16 Mr. Epstein, correct? 17 Mr. Epstein a massage just like she understood several 17 A. Yes. 18 other girls in her community had done? 18 Q. Nobody threatened her, right? 19 A. Correct. 19 A. Not that I'm aware of. 20 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 20 Q. She seemed like a relatively mature 21 BYMR. WEINBERG: 21 18-year-old when you spoke to her? 22 Q. And Ms. like others, never complained to 22 A. Yes. 23 you, she never wont to you herself before you went to 23 Q. And this occurred just shortly before her 24 her; is that right? 24 interview with you, correct? 25 A. Correct. 25 A. What do you mean "shortly before"? Page 417 Page 419 1 Q. And she didn't initiate any complaints through 1 Q. Meaning that her recollection that on one 2 any parent, teacher, medical professional, law 2' occasion she had had sex with Mr. Epstein, consensual 3 enforcement officer or anybody else to your knowledge? 3 sex occurred shortly before she was interviewed by you .4 A. Not to my knowledge. 4 in of 2005, correct? . 5 Q. And be went directly to her because she was S A. Right. 6 18 in correct? 6 Q. She, too, introduced others to Mr. Epstein. 7 A. Correct 7 did she not? . 8 Q. And she told you that she, in fact, during the 8. A. Yes, I believe so. 9 first time, wearing thong panties, gave Mr. Epstein a Q. And do you ranentber interviewing her — within 10 massage, coual? 10 a week of your interview with Ms. a., you interviewed 11 A. Yes. 11 someone with the initials.? We can find this on 12 Q. And that she received money for that, correct? 12 page 16? 13 A. Yes. 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And there was no prior arrangement of money 14 Q. At the bottom of page 16 of the affidavit, 15 for sex, so this, too, was not prostitution, correct? 15 Detective Samut (phonetic) and you on November 15th, met 16 A. Correct. 16 and during the sworn statement said she had met 17 Q. And she returned 15 times to Mr. Epstein's 17 Mr. Epstein a year . And she was — her date of 18 residence, correct? 18 birth on this report i Do you see that 19 A. A total of, yes, that's what she recalled. 19 four lines up on the bottom of 16? 20 Q. On at least one of the occasions, she was with 20 A. It would have been M. Is that the one 21 Ms. Jane Doe 103 who was also was paid $200, correct? 21 you're talking about? 22 A. Correa. 22 Q. This is on the bottom of page 16, 23 Q. And Mr. Epstein, in no way financially 23 . "November 15th, Detective Samut and I met with a. 24 profited from his relationship with correct? 24 A. You're on — yeah. 25 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 25 Q. I'm probably on a different-page than you. Do (561) 832-7500. 26 (Pages 416 to 419) PROSE COURT-REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciull (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciutl (601 c6062637-abe1-452c-a836-bc614e314d7a EFTA00298238 Page 420 1 you see the four lines from the bottom, short paragraph? 2 A. Yeah, right. 3 Q. "f, date of birth, n 4 Correct? 5 A. Right. 6 Q. So she said she met Mr. Epstein though • 7 correct? 8 A. I believe so. 9 Q. And Ms.. was accurate with her in saying 10 to her that she could make 5200 giving Mr. Epstein a 11 massage? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And Ms... said the massage would have to be 14 topless, correct? 15 A. I believe so, yes. 16 Q. And.. returned several times to 17 Mr. Epstein's horn; voluntarily, correct? 18 A. I believe so. 19 Q. Meaning, she agreed to go with Ms.. the 20 first time and meet Mr. Epstein and give him what she 21 knew would be a topless massage? 22 A. I don't know if the word "topless" came in, 23 but I know it was a massage. 24 Q. Take a look at the second — top of the 25 sentence of the next page. Ifs at the very top, the 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 422 BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Well, it could even be M.? A. It could have been the person who actually brought than. Q. And that any massage that occurred always occurred on the second floor of Mr. Epstein's El Brillo residence, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Earn. TILE WITNESS: I believe so. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. By *always,' I mean of all of the witnesses that were interviewed by them, they told you that they went upstairs with someone and entered a room where there was a massage table when Mr. Epstein came into the room, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Now, in 2003 you conducted a very different kind of criminal investigation that related to the same residence at El Brillo on Palm Beach, correct? A. Arc you talking about the burglary case? Q. Yes. A. That wasn't my case, but I assisted. Page 421 1 top two words. 2 A. "Massage topless," okay. 3 Q. And again, she was, like WI of the other 4 girls had no prior communication with Mr. Epstein, 5 Ms. or anyone at the El Brillo home before she 6 arrived there physically the first time, correct? 7 A. Correct. 8 Q. And there were no negotiations that you knew 9 of, you know, where prices were discussed, correct? 10 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 11 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm aware ot yes. 12 BY MR. WEINBERG: 13 Q. And what these girls repeatedly told you is 14 that they went to Mr. Epstein's home, invited by one of 15 their friends? 16 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 17 THE WITNESS: They were invited by one of 18 their friends or associates. 19 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20. Q. Came into the first floor and were taken by 21 somebody up to the second floor, correct? 22 A. Correct 23 Q. And that somebody was usually-? 24 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 25. THE. WITNESS: or, on occasion, it was a Page 423 1 Q. You were a participant in the investigation 2 burglary when Mr. Epstein was the victim, correct? 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. As part of your assistance, you brought 5 certain cameras into Mr. Epstein's home; is that 6 correct? 7 A- Correct 8 Q. And do you recall that Mr. Epstein shared with 9 you that he, himself, attempting to identify who was 10 stealing money from him, had gone out and for the 11 purpose of making that identification, had purchased 12 certain cameras himself? 13 A. I believe so, yes. 14 Q. And that he installed them so that the camera 15 was poking out of a camera on the first floor of his 16 residence, directed towards his desk area where he left 17 a bag that commonly had United States currency, correct? 18 A. I wasn't sure if it was the bag or the drawer, 19 but it was focused on the desk area. 20 Q. Camera, first floor directed to the desk area? 21 A. Yes. It was a bookshelf behind. It was like 22 an L bookshelf. 23 Q. And that you came in and supplemented those 24 cameras to try to help Mr. Epstein identify this thief, 25 correct? PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, 27 (Pages 420 to 423) INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Medal (601.280.428-9381) Electronically signed by Jeans RIccluti (601-280428.9381) O5062637-abel-452c-a8364x614e314d7a EFTA00298239 Page 424 1 A. Correct. 2 Q. And you, thereafter, took out your cameras 3 when the thief was identified by Mr. Epstein, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And the thief was identified through 6 photographs of this desk area on the first floor of 7 Mr. Epstein's residence, correct? 8 A. I believe so, yes. 9 Q. And you never saw a camera in the massage room 10 on the second floor of Mr. Epstein's residence during 11 this 2003 period, correct? 12 A. I never went upstairs. 13 Q. None of the girls said that the massages was a 14 videoed or a photographed event, did they? 15 A. One of the girls recalled having their 16 photograph taken while in a tub. 17 But no, I never went upstairs during that 18 investigation, so I don't know if there was any covert 19 cameras up there, so... 20 Q. You don't know that there was one, correct? 21 A. Correct 22 Q. And the only covert camera you knew of was the 23 one that Mr. Epstein disclosed to you, correct? 24 A. Correct 25 Q. And he disclosed it to you in saying he Pogo 426 1 A. I know that was some of their concerns, but I 2 don't believe anyone specifically came out and said, "I 3 was videotaped". 4 Q. Right. Nobody told you that the massage was 5 videoed, to their knowledge? 6 A. To their knowledge, no. 7 Q. And nobody told you that they had seen a 8 camera in the massage room on the second floor of 9 Mr. Epstein's residence. 10 A. I don't recall, because like I said, I know 11. that was one of the concerns. 12 Q. I want to separate out a concern from what 13 they told you they saw. No one ever told you they saw a 14 camera on the second floor of Mr. Epstein's residence? 15 A. I don't recall. I don't recall someone saying 16 that they saw a camera. I know that there was concerns 17 that the incident was videotaped. 18 Q. And they expressed to you that was just a 19 speculative subjective concern, but that they did not 20 see a camera videotaping any massage; is that correct? 21 MS. ARBOUR: Fonn. 22 THE WITNESS: Not that I can recall. 23 BY MR. WEINBERG: 24 Q. You interviewed roughly 30 different women 25 that had been to Mr. Epstein's home, correct? Page 425 • 1 purchased it, correct? . 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And he purchased it from a spy store, a store 4 that sold such covert cameras, correct? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And he told you, you as a law enforcement 7 officer, that he had done so for a specific purpose, 8 correct? 9 A. It was for that case, yes. 10 Q. Right. To identify someone who was 11 responsible for the theft of currency from the desk area 12 on the first floor? 13 A. I believe it was currency and a gun, if Fm 14 not mistaken. 15 Q. And he neva told you he had ever, on any 16 other occasion, purchased a covert camera, correct? 17 A. Not that I'm aware og no. 18 Q. And with the exception of this one girl who 19 said she was photographed in a tub, no other girl told 20 you that they were photographed, correct? 21 A. I don't believe so. 22 Q. No girl told you that they were videoed, 23 correct? And by "no girl," I mean none of the girls 24 that you interviewed in connection to your 2005 25 investigation of Mr. Epstein. Page 427 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Some over 18 and some under 18, correct? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q Some over 18 when you interviewed than, some 5 said that they had been there when they were under 18, 6 correct? 7 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 8 THE WITNESS: Correct. 9 13Y MR. WEINBERG: 10 Q. And not a single one of those 30 people told 11 you that they saw a camera on the second floor of 12 Mr. Epstein's residence, correct? 13 MS. ARBOUR Form, asked and answered. 14 THE WITNESS: I can't recall if anybody 15 specifically crime out and said that they saw a 16 camera or not 17 BY MR. WEINBERG: 18 Q. Nobody, to your current recollection, told you 19 that they saw videotaping of any massage that occurred 20 in Mr. Epstein's residence or any sexual contact that 21 occurred in Mr. Epstein's residence, cored? 22 MS. ARBOUR: Form. . 23 THE WITNESS: Not that I can recall. 24 BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 Q. And nobody said that they had ever seen a 28 (Pages 424 to 427) ' PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY INC.. (561) 832-7506 ' Bectronlcally signed by Jeans RIcclutl (601 . Electronically signed by Jeans RIcclud (601 c6062637-abel-452c-a836-bc614e31467a EFTA00298240 Page 428 1 photograph of themselves in Mr. Epstein's residence with 2 one exception, that being Jane Doe 103, who claimed that 3 a photo was taken of ha in a tub, correct? 4 A. I believe it was just Jane Doe 103. 5 Q. Right. Not any of the other 29 or so 6 witnesses that you interviewed, correct? 7 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 8 THE WITNESS: Right. 9 BY MR. WEINBERG: 10 Q. And when you enteral Mr. Epstein's home, 11 pursuant to judicial authorization on October 20th, you 12 were looking for photographs, were you not? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And you did not fmd the photo of Ms. Jane Doe 15 103 that she said was taken of her in a tub, correct? 16 A. Carat. 17 Q. And Ms. Jane Doe 103 didn't tell you how many 18 months before October 10 and 11, 2005, the dates of your 19 interview with her, that photo was taken, correct? 20 A. She did not give a specific date, no. 21 . So once a in remembering back, she turned 18 22 on The photo could have been taken 23 after she was 18, before she was 18, correct? 24 A. It could have been either one. 25 Q. And she never claimed that Mr. Epstein was in 1 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 2 THE WITNESS: Yeah Yes. 3 BY MR. WEINBERG: 4 Q. Jennifer Doe 4, do you recall her? 5 A. Do you mean Jane Doe 4? 6 Q. I'm sorry, Jane Doe 4. A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you recall interviewing her in or around 9 October 6, 2005? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And do you recall reciting to a judge in a 12 probable cause affidavit certain statements that 13 Ms. Jane Doe 4 made to you? 14 A. 'recall! put in — I put in a lot of 15 information that had been gathered during the 16 investigation for the search warrant. 17 Q. And is it fair to say that — and I want to 18 focus you on the probable cause affidavit rather than 19 the search warrant affidavit, because that's the one 20 that's in evidence as Exhibit 1, that you said 21 therein — it's on page 9 if you want to work through 22 Ms. Jane Doe 4 with me — that you interviewed her on 23 October 6, 2005? That's the bottom paragraph. 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And that her date of birth was Page 429 1 the tub with ha, did she? 2 A. No. I believe was with her. 3 Q. At the time of the photo? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. You're certain she said that? 6 A. I believe so. 7 Q. Is there any reason that you didn't say that 8 in your report? 9 MS. ARBOUR; Form. 10 THE WITNESS: Again, I'm going off 11. recollection. 12 BY MR. WEINBERG: 13 • Q. Okay. 14 A. I believe that's what she said tome. 15 Q. And I'll go back. Is them any reason —1 16 represent to you that's not in your 87-page incident 17 report Is there any reason you would have omitted such 18 a description of the type of photo that Ms. Jane Doe 103 19 was claiming to you was taken of her in the tub? 20 A. No, I would have not omitted anything from the 21 report. 22 Q. So, therefore, that would have been the kind 23 of detail that you would have included in the report if, 24 • in fact, you recalled it happening at or around the time 25 you wrote the report, correct? Page 431 1 is that correct? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. So at the time you interviewed her, she was 4 over 18, correct? S MS. ARBOUR: Fonn. 6 THE WITNESS: I believe so, yes. 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 8 Q. And you interviewed her at University? 9 A. Yes. 10 • Q. And you explained to her why you were there, 11 cared? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Which is, that you were conducting a criminal 14 investigation of Jeffrey Epstein? 15 A. That is correct. 16 Q. And that's a practice you used when you were 17 introducing yourself to either the adult witnesses who 18 had turned 18 or the parents of the minor witnesses, 19 correct? • 20 MS. ARBOUR: Form. • 21 THE WITNESS. Correct. 22 BY MR. WEINBERG: 23 Q. And Ms. Jane Doe 4 told you that she was aware 24 of the ongoing investigation; is that correct? 25 A. Yes. • 29 (Pages 428 Lo 43].} PROSE COURT REPORTING. AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 Electronically signed by Jeann Ricciuti (601 c5062637-abo1-452c-a836-hc614e314d7a EFTA00298241 1 Page 432 Q. And neverthelms, she agreed that she would Page 434 1 Q. And she told you that she was comfortable with 2 Speak to you; is that right? 2 what she was doing? 3 A. Correct 3 MS. ARBOUR: Form. • 4 Q. And she told you that she had known..? 4 BY MR. WEINBERG: 5 A. Yes. ' . 5 Q. Let me put it another way: That if she was 6.. Q. And that IMI. was the person who introduced 6 uncomfortable, she would not do what she was 7 her to Jeffrey Epstein? 7 uncomfortable in doing, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form • 8 MS. ARBOUR: Same objection. 9 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 9 THE WITNESS: • Right. 10. BY MR. WEINBERG: 10 BY MR. WEINBERG: 11. Q. And again, this was not a meeting that was — 11 Q. In other words — 12 . the introduction of Jane Doe 4 to Epstein by IMI. was 12 A. It was actually even stated in the — that if 13 not preceded by — 13 she felt uncomfortable, to say so and Mr. Epstein would 14 ' (Ms. O'Connor exits the proceedings.) 14 stop pushing the issue. 15. MR. PIKE: Go ahead and finish the question, 15 Q. And she wasn't the tint person that told you 16 • but then don't answer until your attorney returns, 16 this; is that correct? 17 okay? 17 MS. ARBOUR: Fenn. 18 MR. WEINBERG: Well, we can withdraw that 18 THE WITNESS: I believe so. I believe she 19 question and take a five-minute break. Let's take 19 wasn't the only one. 20 a break. 20 BY MR. WEINBERG: 21 (A brief recess was taken.) 21 Q. And you interviewed a number of people that 22 (Ms. O'Connor re-joins the proceedings.) 22 told you that Mr. Epstein would ask them to take off all 23 BY MR. WEINBERG: • 23 thek clothes, and they would take off as much clothes 24 • Q. Page 9 on So Ms. Jane Doe 4's 24 as they felt comfortable with and we re not forced to 25 . aaffidavit. date of birth is and she was 18 at the time of 25 take off any remaining clothes, correct? Page 433 Page 435 1 your interview, correct? 1. A. I know that there were, I believe., one or two 2 A. I believe so. 2 that went down to their bra and panties when he told 3 Q. And since your interview was in October and 3 . them to get comfortable. And during the interviews, 4 her birthday was in she had been 18 for 4 Mr. Epstein stated to take off either their bra and/or 5 months? 5 panties. is A. (Non-verbal response). 6 Q. And they would either do it or not do it, 7 Q. Is that correct? 7 depending on their choice, correct? 8 . MS. ARBOUR Form. 8 MS. ARBOUR: Fon. 9 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 9 THE WITNESS: Correct 10 . BY MR. WEINBERG: 10 BY MR. WEINBERG: 11 Q. And she toldott that she had been introduced 11 Q. I mean, none of them said Mr. Epstein tore 12 to Jeff Epstein by M., correct? 12. their clothes off — 13. A. Correct. • 13 A. No. 14 Q. And that she, like others who Ms... brought 14 Q. — over their objection? 15 to Mr. Epstein's house, knew that the purpose for which 15 A. No. 16 she was going was to give a massage and receive some 16 MS. ARBOUR: Form. .17 . money, correct? 17 BY MR. WEINBERG: 18 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 18 Q. And all of them told you that he respected the 19 THE WITNESS: I believe so, yes. 19 limits that they set; he didn't physically overcome 20 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 their limits, correct? 21 Q. • And she told you that she had been there lots 21 . MS. ARBOUR: Form: 22 of times over two years, correct? 22 THE WITNESS: There was one girl in 23 .. MS: ARBOUR: Form. . 23 .particular, I can recall, where he was massaging 24 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes. 24 her vagina and told her to relax, I'm not going 25 BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 inside. And she claimed that during the massage, 30 (Pages 432 to 435) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciutl (601 Electronically signed by Jeans Riccluti (601 c5662637-abet-452c-a836-bc614e314d7a EFTA00298242 Page 436 Page 438 1 he did go inside digitally, but — not force 2 himself it was just the incident we talked about. 3 BY 'MR. WEINBERG: 4 Q. And then she said no and he stopped, coned? 5 MS. ARBOUR: Form. ' 6 THE WITNESS: i think she pulled back. 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 8 • Q. And he didn't try it again? 9 • MS. ARBOUR: Fonn. 10 THE WITNESS: He withdrew his forgers, yes. .11 . BY MR. WEINBERG: 12 Q. And with the exception of that girl, you 13 interviewed girl after girl after girl that said that 14 limits were set and respected? 15 - MS. ARBOUR: Form. 16 THE WITNESS: Aside from the — Ms. Jane Doe 17 103's. 18 BY MR. WEINBERG: 19. Q. Yes, taking aside Ms. Jane Doe 103 and the one 20 other girl you just mentioned, you interviewed 20 or 30 21 others who made no similar complaint to you, correct? 22 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: Correct. 24 BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 Q. And they instead said that limits were set by 2 3 4, 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 make similar allegations, correct — MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: Right BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. — who told you that Mr. Epstein deferred to .the limits they set, to the massage and to whatever occurred in connection with the massage? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: Yes. BY Mk W13INBERG: Q. Ms. Jane Doe 4 was one of those people who told you that she told Mr. Epstein she had a boyfriend and would not go beyond certain limits, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. -THE WITNESS: I believe so. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And that she told you that she went to Mr. Epstein's house on a number of occasions and that she provided massages to Mr. Epstein, correct? A. Yes. Q. And that when she expressed feeling uncomfortable, Mr. Epstein would stop pushing whatever was the issue that caused her to say she felt uncomfortable, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. Page 437 1 themselves and then Mr. Epstein deferred to those 2 limits? 3 MS: ARBOUR Form. 4 THE WITNESS: As I recall -- see, I recall, . 5 like, interviewing Ms. Jane Doe 103 where she said .6 things became escalating, so I don't know what limits you're referring to. 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 Q. With the limit set by It Jane Doe 103 wherein 10 on one occasion you said Ms. Jane Doe 103 objected and 11 Mr. Epstein stopped. There was no other indication from 12 Ms. Jane Doe 103 that she objected, correct? 13 A. That was the time where — 14 Q. Right. But for that time, Ms. Jane Doe 103 15 never told you that she told Mr. Epstein, don't do that, . 16 and he did anyway? 17 A.- And that other incident involving the other 18 girl, which I believe was Jane Doe 2, where the 19 insertion of the fingers. 20 Q. And she pulled away and that ended the •. • 21 incident, correct? 22 . MS. ARBOUR: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: Yeaklbelieve that was — 24 BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 Q. 'You interviewed 28 Other people who didn't itv=est 1. 2 3 . 4 5 6 7 10 11 12 13 14 15 16. 17 18: • 19 20 21 22 : 23 24 • 25 Page 439 THE WITNESS: I believe that's what Ms.. told her. • BY MR. WEINBERG: Q, And that's what she said was her experience, too? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: Yeah.' BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. In other words, Ms... told her, you set the limits, you know, and those limits were being respected, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: I believe so. 'BY MR. WEINBERG: • Q. And that Ms. Jane Doc 4 corroborated that, in fact, when she set limits, Mr. Epstein respected them? MS. ARBOUR: Form. . THE WITNESS: I believe so. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And Ms. Jane Doe 4.said that during the period that she was going there, that it was not until, quote, recently, that Jane Doe 4 even began removing her • clothes and staying in her thong underwear to provide a massage, correct? A. Correct. 31 (Pages 436 to 439) PROSE. COURT REPORTING 'AGENCY, ('561)"832-75O.6 Electronically signed by Jeana Rlcciutl (601 Electronically signed by Jeana RicciutI (601 00526.37413•1452e-s836-be614•314d7a EFTA00298243 Page 440 1 Q. In other worth, through the vast majority of 2 the period she was seeing Mr. Epstein, she was giving 3 Mr. Epstein massages that she represented to you were 4 given with most of her clothes on? 5 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 6 THE WITNESS: That's what 1— that's what she 7 claimed, yes. 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 Q. And that Ms. Jane Doe 4, like others, said 10 that she was driven over by the person that introduced 11 her, in this case, Ms. M.? 12 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 13. THE WITNESS: Right. 14 BY MR. WEINBERG: 15 !,I ; That she would be met on the first floor by 16 = correct? 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. That she would voluntarily accompany 19 upstairs, correct? 20 MS. ARBOUR: Foam. 21 THE WITNESS: Correct. 22 BY MR. WEINBERG: 23 Q. And that the massage was always in the 24 upstairs area, correct? 25 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 1 2. 3 4 5 6 7 8" 9 10 11 12 13. 14 15 16 17. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 442 Q. So certainly, with Ms. Jane Doe 4, that was • no indication that Mr. Epstein ever did anything except defer to the limits that she set on her massage, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Fenn. THE WITI•IFSS: She did state that he would try to get away with more and more on each massage, which was quoted in the PC, but... BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Right. All sbe had to do was say no, and he stopped. • • MS. ARBOUR: Form. ' THE WITNESS: That's pretty much what she stated. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. With all of the women you interviewed, they were brought to the house by somebody else who was one of their friends: is that correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. BY MR. WEINBERG: . Q. Or associates? MS. ARBOUR: Same objection. THE WITNESS: Pretty much. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And it was common practice during these events Page 441 1 THE WITNESS: Correct. 2 BY MR. WEINBERG: 3 Q. And nobody ever told you that they had engaged 4 in any sexual activity with Mr. Epstein in his lust 5 floor office, did they? 6 A. Not that I can recall, no. 7 Q. Or that he ever received a massage in his 8, first floor office, cornea? And by "office," I mean 9 that area that that theft of money from his bag a 10 • drawer occurred two years before. • . 11 A. Not that I can recall. • . 12 Q. And Ms. Jane Doe 4 continued to tell you that 13 as she described her massages, that on one occasion, 14 Mr. Epstein grabbed her buttocks and when he tried to 15 touch her breasts, she would pull away, tell him to stop 16 and he would stop, correct? 17 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 18 Tim WITNESS: Yes. 19 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 Q. And that, likewise, she said that she set . 20 21'. limits and would not permit Mr. Epstein to in any way 21 22 we a vibrator, correct? 22 23 . MS. ARBOUR: Form. 23 24 WITNESS: Correct 24 25 BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 1. 2 '3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13' 14 15 • 16 17 18 19 Page 443 for the person who brought them to stay at the house during at least the first of the massages, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: Correct. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. So that, for instance, Ms. M. stayed at the house while Ms Jane Doe 4gave Mr. Epstein a massage for the first time, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Font INE.WITNESS. 'believe so. BY MR. WEINBERG: . er And Ms. M . stayed at the house while Ms. M. gave Mr. Epstein a massage for the first time, correct? A. Correct. Q. When you interviewed Ms. M., she never told you that she heard anybody scream or complain or object or protest the massage while she was in the house, correa? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: I did recall an incident involving a girl by the name of U. - BY MR. WEINBERG: • • Q. Risk. A., where.r think the* was a disagreement 32 (Pages 440 to 443) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY; . • 1561) 832-7 5 0 6 Electronically signed by Jeana Mcclull (801M Electronically signed by Jeana Moduli (601 c6062637-abut -452c-a836-bc614e314d7a EFTA00298244 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 . 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 444 1 between Mr. Epstein and Ms. M. and there was -- 2 Q. She was upset — 3 A. — she was upset, and I think she left and no 4 moneys were paid. 5 Q. Right. And didn't she come back a second time 6 even though she was upset the first time? 7 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 8 THE WITNESS: Yes, she did. 9 BY MR. WEINBERG: 10 Q. And with that exception, there was no other 11 representation made to you by any of the friends of the 12 masseuses or the people that introduced them to 13 Mr. Epstein, that any of the people that gave him a 14 massage ever had a conflict that they complained about 15 verbally or screamed or yelled in the house, correct? 16 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 17 THE WITNESS: Not that fm aware of, no. 18 BY MR. WEINBERG: 19 Q. And there were occasions, were there not, 20 where some of these girls that went to Mr. Epstein's 21 house to give massages had boyfriends? 22 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 24 BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 Q. And on occasion, the guys took the girds to Page 446 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. How long before the prior deposition was that 3 meeting? 4 A. It was actually documented in the report. I 5 did a supplement to that nature. I want to say a month, 6 a month before, a month and a half prior. 7 Q. So this is in 2010? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And this was shortly before the fu•st day of 10 the current deposition? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And you wrote a report about meeting with 13 Mr. Kuvin? 19 A. Ult•hult 15 Q. And that tt.po. t is available to us as a public 16 record? 17 A. Yes. It's with the case number. 18 Q. And the case number being the '06 number or 19 the '05 number? 20 A. Thc '05 — well, ifs cross referenced back 21 and forth, so... 22 Q. And do you recall what the content of the 23 conversation between you and Mr. Kuvin were? 24 A. It really wasn't much. I mean, I told him — 25 he asked about certain things within the report; I Page 445 1 the house — 2 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 3 BY MR. WEINBERG: 4 Q. — since someof them didn't drive? 5 A. I'm trying to think. I know some took taxis, 6 I know — I wouldn't know if the boyfriends took them (): 7 not. 8 Q. Let me ask you some different kind of questions as we work our way to the lunch break. • Have you discussed your testimony with any of the Plaintiffs' lawyers before corning to the first deposition last month? A. I spoke with Mr. KUVI11. Q. Yes. A. I met with him at Starbueks in West Palm prior to the depo. Q. And did he ask you to meet with him or did you ask to meet with him? A. He had called me and asked to meet with me. Q. And did he tell you the purpose of meeting with you was to try to talk to you about the Epstein case? A. I believe so. Q. And you agreed and went and met with him, correct? Page 44"/ 1 referred him to the report That was basically it. 2 Q. Was there any discussion of the subjects that 3 he intended to ask you about during the deposition? 4 A. No. He bad asked me some certain things regarding the report, and I just referred him to the 6 report. I was like, no, it's documented. 7 Q. Did he al you whether there was any current 8 investigation ongoing regarding Mr. Epstein? 9 A. I don't believe so. 10 Q. Did he tell you that he was aware of an 11 ongoing investigation being conducted by another agency? 12 A. I daft believe so. 13 Q. Did he discuss with you any knowledge that he 14 possessed regarding any ongoing Federal investigation? 15 A. No, not that i was aware of. 1.6 Q. Did he try to motivate you to recommence a 17 criminal investigation of Mr. Epstein? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Are you engaged in any ongoing criminal 20 investigation of Mr. Epstein? 21 A. No, I am not, and... 22 Q. Do you know whether anyone else in your 23 • department is? 24 A. Nopc. 25 Q. Same questions for Mr. Edwards: Did you ever 33 (Pages 444 to 447) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (801 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 c6062637-abe1-462c-a836-bc614o314d7a EFTA00298245 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 Page 448 1 have any communications with Mr. Edwards prior to the 2 start of the deposition that was on March 19, 2010? 3 A. I did speak with Mr. Edwards by telephone some 4 time ago. It might even bo documented in the report us 5 well. 6 Q. What's your memory of that conversation? Who 7 called who? 8 A. He called me. There was some reference to a 9 girl that was, what he claimed, was not on the part of 10 the original investigation; that he has a client. I 11 referred him to the FBI, because everything had been 12 turned over to the FBI, so... 13 Q. So he called you to see whether or not his 14 client was in any way included in your prior 15 investigation? What exactly do you recall him saying? 16 A. It was he has or had a client, I'm not 17 really sum. 18 Q. Did he name the client? 19 A. No. 20 Q. How would you know whether or not his client 21 was included? 22 A. We have nothing at the police department. 23 Everything was referred over to the FBI, so it was easy 24 for me to say contact the FBI because we have nothing 25 here. 150 1 Q. And Mr. Garcia? 2 A. No. 3 Q. And anyone from Mr. Josefsberg or anybody fro 4 his law firm? 5 A. No. 6 Q. How about investigators, did you know a man 7 nano listen? 8 A. No. 9. Q. Fandrey? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Jenne? 12 A. No. 13 Q.' Has any private investigator ever attempted to 14 interview you regarding Jeffrey Epstein? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Has any private investigator ever informed you 17 that they were conducting surveillance on Jeffrey 18 Epstein's residence? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Did you have occasion to learn that any 21 private investigator was ever conducting a nighttime 22 surveillance of Jeffrey Epstein's residence during the 23. past 12 months? 24 A. No. My — no. My only involvement with 25 private investigators were the ones that were following Page 449 1 Q. And do you have any other recollection of the 2 conversation with Mr. Edwards? 3 A. Not that I'm aware of, no. 4 Q. Do you recall what in the incident report 5 Mr. Kevin was asking you about? 6 A. No. I know I documented it, but... Q. So whatever the report that you documented would be your best memory of your conversation with him? A. Yes. Q. Now, after the start of the deposition, did you have any further conversations with Mr. Kuvin or Mr. Edwards regarding Mr. Epstein or regarding these proceedings other than the ones that were on the record during the deposition? A. Since the dopers started? Q. Yes. A. No. Q. And during the deposition, during any of the breaks in the deposition, did either of the two Plaintiffs' lawyers have any conversations with you of A. Nothing case-related. It was just... Q. Same questions regarding Mr. Mermelsteln and 24 Mr. Horowitz flaw you ever spoken to them? 25 A. No. Page 451 1 me and pulling my trash. But other than that, that's 2 it. 3 Q. Whoever they were, whatever they did, let's 4 put that aside. You've had no direct communication with 5 any person who represented themselves to be working with 6 any of the Plaintiffs' lawyers in this case? 7 A. No. 8 Q. And do you know whether or not Chief Reiter 9, had any communications with any investigator working on 10 the Epstein investigation? 11 A. Not that I'm aware of. 12 Q. Did he ever tell you that he had any 13 communications with Mr. Jenne, or Mr. Fandrey or 14 Mr. Fisten? 15 A. Not that fin aware of. 16 Q. And have you ever seen any note, report, 17 document, memorandum, e-mail or log entry in the Palm 18 Beach records that anyone had been observed 19 surveillance — surveying Mr. Epstein's residence in the 20 past 24 months? 21 A. Not that I'm aware of. 22 Q. Would investigators, in a normal course of 23 business, if they were conducting an investigation in a 24 private area of Palm Beath, notify the police that they 25 intended to be parked in a certain area and watching a 34 (Pages 448 Lo 451) PROSE COURT REPORTING:AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Riceititi (601 Electronically signed by Jeans nicciuti (601 650624374b01-462c-a8364x614•314d7a EFTA00298246 Page 452 Page 454 1 certain residence? 1 regarding investigations. I mean, I usually 2 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 2' forward e-mails to the woman who inputted the 3 THE.WITNESS: Some do, some don't In my 3 supplements into the report. I utilin'd the • 4 years of experience, I've encountered private 4 e-mails for communication with other agencies, s investigators that informed the police department, 5 researching information. 6' and there's investigators that don't. 6 BY MR. WEINBERG: 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 7 Q. Were there any other agencies involved in the 8 Q. Media. The media: Have you, yourself, ever 8 investigation of Jeffrey Epstein when you began it in 9 talked to a media representative/reporter named Connolly 9 the fall of 2005? 10 who was doing an article for Vanity Fair? 10 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 11 . A. He did telephone me several times and left me 11 THE WITNESS: Not that I'm — no, not that I'm 12 voice mails. I believe I called him once and referred 12 aware of. 13 him to our media person, which was Janet Consuelo. I 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 said, you know, if you have — want anything media 14 Q. And with the exception of Federal agencies, 15 related, dst's the person you need to speak to. I 15 were there any other agencies involved at any time in 16 don't speak to media. But other than that... 16 the investigation of Jeffrey Epstein? Putting aside the 17 Q. Any other media representative attempt to 17 FBI and the Federal authorities. 18 speak to you? 18 A. Not that I'm aware of. 19 A. Local reporters, they sent me e-mails, but 1 19 Q. And did you use your e-mail to communicate 20 just referred those to Janet. 20 with any Federal authority regarding Jeffrey Epstein? 21 Q. Sure. And how would they — did you have 21 A. I don't believe so. 22 e-mail addresses that are ace assible to members of the 22 Q. Do you have the e-mail addresses of the 23 media and the public? 23. various FBI agents who was involved in the Federal 24 A. I mean, they're on my business card, you know, 24 investigation of Mr. Epstein? 25 my e-mail address, so... 25 MS. ARBOUR: Form.. Page 453 Page 455 Q. What e-mail address is that on your business 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 card? 2 Q. For instance, Ms. Kizitendahl is the case 3 A. 3 Cent- 4 Q. And is that an e-mail that you would use to 4 MS. ARBOUR: Same objection. 5 conduct electronic communications with other police 5 TIE WITNESS: I don't believe so. I don't 6 offiects on an investigation? 6 believe so. 7 A. It's the e-mail that I use for work, yeah. 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 8 Q. When did you start using that e-mail? 8 Q. Do you know Whellwr or not you ever sent a 9 A. When we rust got it. I mean... 9 communication to the FBI from your office in jrecarey 10 Q. How many years ago? Do you recall when you 10 e-mail? 11 first got an e-mail system or a personal e-mail for 11 A. I can't recall, but I don't believe so. 12 yourself? 12 Q. How about the media? 13 A. I don't know. I would venture to say back in 13 A. I don't speak to the media, so... 14 like 2003,2002. 14 Q. How about Chief Reiter? 15 Q. So before the beginning of the investigation 15 A. Within the agency, yeah, I sent e-mails all 16 of Mr. Epstein? 16 the time within the agency to different detectives, 17 A. (Igen-verbal response). 17 secretarial staff, Chief. 18 Q. And before the beginning of Ms. Pagan's 18 Q. Was there a decision that was discussed 19 investigation of Mr. Epstein; is that correct? 19 between you and Chief Reiter as to whether or not to 20 A. I believe so. 20 make available the incident report to the media, the 21 Q. And what is your practice in terms of using 21 Epstein 87-page incident report? 22 e-mail to communicate with other officers or other 22 A. I know I wasn't consulted with that. I mean, 23 detectives engaged in a common investigation? 23 that was decisions made. 24 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 24 Q. Who made that decision? 25 THE WITNESS: Generally, I don't send e-mails 25 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 35 (Pages 452 Lo 4 5 5) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC." Electronically signed by Jeana Medial (601 Electronically signed by Jeans Moduli (601 c50126374brI-4520-4835-bc614•314dre EFTA00298247 Page 456 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 Q. To the best of your knowledge. 3 A. You'd have to ask Chief Reiter on that one. 4 Q. Is it ordinary practice of the Palm Beach 5 Police to disseminate incident reports to the media? 6 MS. ARBOUR Form. 7 THE WITNESS: Once they're filed, they become 8 public record, so you can go into the police agency 9 and ask for any report. 10 BY MR. WEINBERG: 11 Q. And the media has access to the incident 12 reports? 13 A. That's correct. 14 MS. ARBOUR Fortn. 15 BY MR. WEINBERG: 16 Q. And was there anything unusual, from your 17 perspective, regarding how this incident report was 18 handled vis-a-vis the media? 19 A. I don't believe so. 20 Q. But if there was, that would have been a 21 decision made by Chief Reiter and not yourself, correct? 22 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: Correct. 24 BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 Q. This case, this investigation began in March Page 458 1 interviewed by the Palm Beach Police between March of 2 2005 and your beginnings of the investigation in late 3 September of 2005? . 4 A. That would have been documented in the report. 5 Q. Do you recall any other woman interviewed 6 during that six-month period? 7 A. I can't recall. 8 Q. Do you recall that trash pulls were occurring 9 during this March and April of 2005 period? 10 A. I did read that, yes. 11 Q. Do you recall that within the trash pulls, 12 there was some references to a belief amongst the 13 officers that there were sex utensils or sex objects 14 that were being identified and pulled out of the trash? 15 A. Yes. 16 MS. ARBOUR Form. 17 THE WITNESS: I recall the incident, the thing 18 you're talking about, which was later turned out to 19 be a handle of a — utensils. 20 BY MR. WEINBERG: 21 Q. Of an eating utensil? 22 A. Yeah. 23 Q. And do you recall within the incident report 24 there was a reference to this so-called object as one 25 that was consistent with use of anal sex? Page 457 1 of 2005, correct? 2 A. Correct. 3 Q. With a phone call from someone connected to 4 ..'s family into the police department? MS. ARBOUR: Form. 6 BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Is that right? 8 A. I believe so. 9 And you read n report regarding a debriefing 10 of M., correct? 11 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 12 THE WITNESS: I believe so, yes. 13 BY MR. WEN:BERG: 14 Q. But you had no ability to reach your own 15 aulibility determinations because you, yourself, never 16 reinterviewed Ms. M., correct? 17 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 18 THE WITNESS: Correct. 19 . BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 Q. And those interviews were exclusively done by 21 others; is that right? 22 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 23 THE WITNESS: Correct. 24 BY MR. WEINBERG: 25 O. And Were there any other young women who were Page 459 1 A. Yes. They thought originally it was an anal • 2 wand. 3 (Mr. Garcia entered the room.) 4 BY MR. WEINBERG: 5 • Q. And do you recall that, even after your search 6 on October 20. 2005, wherein you saw lots of similar 7 utensils in the kitchen that clearly were designed for 8 eating; that there was no amendment to the Incident 9 report that reflected the discoveries of October 20 in 10 that the believed sex toys were, in fact, kitchen 11 Menai? 12 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 13 (Ms. Finnigan exits the proceedings.) 14 BY MR. WEINBERG: 15 Q. That was a terribly-worded question. 16 A. I was just going to say. 17 Q. Let me reword it. 18 The incident report contained the beliefs of 19 the officers, that what they were picking out of the 20 garbage were sexual mechanisms that -- 21 A. Right, they thought they were anal wands. 22 Q. — they thought were anal wands. 23 A. Right 24 Q. That on October 20th, when you went to 25 Mr. Epstein's residence, you realized as a professional 36 (Pages 456 to 459) (561) .832-750.0 . . PROSE COURT 'REPORTING 'AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana Medlin (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Riccluti (601 c6002637413•1452e48384=614•31447a EFTA00298248 Page 460 1 law enforcement officer that that conclusion was 2 mistaken. 3 A. Correct. 4 Q. Putt these objects taken out of the garbage 5 were, in fact, pans of eating utensils, correct? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Was there ever an amendment to the incident 8 report that reflected the knowledge that what had 9 previously believed to have been a sex utensil was, in 10 fact, an eating utensil? 11 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 12 THE WITNESS: It might have been referenced in 13 the report I'm net 100 percent certain on that. 14 BY MR. WEINBERG: 15 Q. If it wasn't in the 'two t, then there wasn't 16 an amendment to the report, fair to say? 17. MS. ARBOUR: Form. 18 THE WITNESS: Fair to say. 19 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 Q. I want to go back to September, when you first 21 got involved. You asked Ms. Pagan and others to send 22 you any tape recordings that had been conducted during 23 the beginning days of the investigation; is that 24 correct? 25 A. Correct Page 462 A. l wanted to familiarize myself completely with 2 the case. 3 Q. And the best way to do it, you concluded as a 4 professional officer, was to listen to the verbatim tape 5 recordings? 6 MS. ARBOUR: Fort. 7 THE WITNI3SS: As I would on any other case. • 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 Q. And you wrote a report, an incident report 10 that is dated September 26, 2005. Let Inc just show you 11 this and ask you then to give it back because it's full 12 of notes, but I want to ask you a couple of questions 13 from there. Do you recognize this kind of document? 14 A. Yes. That was a supplement that I had 15 submitted to the secretary to be inputted into the 16 report. 17 Q. And in that supplement, you had referenced in 18 this middle paragraph, "On September 22, I was informed 19 by Sergeant Szarszewski — 20 A. Szarszcwski, yes. 21 Q. — that there would be no trash pickup as it 22 was recycled pickup day." And then you sent a request 23 for copies of the micro and standard-sized cassettes, 24 were requested from Crime Scene to familiarize myself 25. with the interviews conducted. Page 461 1 Q. And you wanted to hear the tape recordings, 2 did you not? 3 A. Yes.' 4 Q. And even one of the tapes was kind of — it 5 was broken during the copying for you, correct? 6 A. Correct 7 Q. And you wanted to hear the tapes because you 8 knew that listening to the tapes would give you the best 9 source of knowledge as to whth witnesses were telling 10 police officers in your absence, correct? 11 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 12 ' THE WITNESS: I wanted to get the perspective 13 of the victim, yes. 14 BY MR. WEINBERG: 15 Q. And the perspective of the victim is more 16 accurately disclosed through a contemporaneous tape 17 recording than through note taking, correct? 18 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 19 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 20 BY MR. WEINBERG: . 21 Q. And therefore, the source that you wanted to 22 got was the tape recordings, correct? 23 A. Correct. 24 Q. Rather than just relying on the narrative that 25 was incorporated into an incident report, correct? 1 2 3 4 S 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17. '18 19 20 21 22 24 25. Page 463 And the crime scene, the crime scene in this investigation was Mr. Epstein's residence, correct? A. No, from the Crime Scene Unit Q. From the Crime Scene Unit? A. Yes, who holds all evidence from the Palm Beach Police Department. Q. So the word "Crime Scene" refers to a unit within the Palm Beach Police Department? A. The Crime Scene Unit, yes. Q. And they're the evidence custodians? A. Yes. Q. And they have logs of evidence going in and out? A. Correct. Q. Just like you kept logs when different items . seized on October 20th were reviewed by you, correct? A. What logs are you referring to? Q. You kept different property logs. A. Oh, the property receipts? Yes. That's done with every piece of evidence Nat gets submitted into Crime Scene. Q. So therefore, the Crime Scene has a log that would contain an identification of each item of evidence that was maintained by the Palm Beach Police as of September 22,2005, correct? ' 0 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601:11/11 37 (Pages 460 to 463) INC. c6062637-0•1-462e48364x614•314d7a EFTA00298249 1 2 3 5 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19. 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 464 A. They have property receipts, yes, copies of the property receipts. . Q. So they would have the receipts for the videos that reflected surveillance before September 22nd, correct? A- Correct. Q. They would have property receipts for the results of the bash pulls before September 22nd. • A. Correct. Q. And the had the tape recording of their debriefing ofM., correct? . A. Correct. Q. Wherein M. said that she went to Mr. Epstein's house on one occasion, correct? A. I believe so, yes. Q. With M., correct? A. Yes. Q. Knew what she was going there for? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: So she claims, yes. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. Represented herself to be 18 to Mr. Epstein? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: That, I don't recall. • Page 466 1 Q. Now, also told you that immediately after 2 • leaving Mr. Epstein's house with the $200 or $300 she 3 received that day, she and.. went shopping, correct? 4 A. She told Detective Pagan. 5. Q. Right. And she was inolthe only different 6 women told you that they went shopping with the money 7 they got from Mr. Epstein following their massages, 8 correct? 9 MR. GARCIA: Object to the form. 10 THE WITNESS: I can't recall if they told me 11 they weat specifically shopping, but.: 12 BY MR. WEINBERG: • 13 Q. Did you ever ask them what they did with the 14 $200 they received? 15 A. I might have. I can't recall at this time if 16 I did or didn't. 17 Q. Did you ever ask lane Doe 103 — strike that. 18 • • Jane Doe I.03 told you that she had received a 19 significant amount of money because she said she bad 20 • gone to Mr. Epstein's home on many occasions, correct? 21. MS. ARBOUR: Form. 22 • THE WITNESS: Yes. n BY MR. WEINBERG: • 24 Q. And that it totaled thousands, rather than 25 hundreds, correct? Page 465 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 Q. If it's in the incident report, you wouldn't 3 believe that's inconsistent with your memory, correct? 4 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 5 BY MR. WEINBERG: 6 Q. In other words, if it's in your incident 7. report, you have no reason to doubt that she said that? 8 A. Correct. 9 • Q. If it was said, it was said to someone else, 10 correct? 11 MS. ARBOUR: Font 12 . THE WITNESS: Correct. 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 Q. Your recollection is that, as you testified to 15 last time, that took her upstairs, correct? 16 . A. Who, ? 17. 18 A. She is the ono who was interviewed by 19 Detective Paw, but... 20 Q. . Right. But she described it that some other 21: woman took hefupstairs, correct? 22 A. Some other woman, yes. 23 Q. But she didn't give the name or or 24 any third party, correct? 25 A. I believe so. Page 467 1 A. I would believe so. . 2 Q. And did you ever ask her what she did with her 3 money? 4 A. I can't recall if I did or didn't. 5 Q. Do you recall ha declining or reflising to 6 tell you what happened to the money that she made with 7 Mr. Epstein? 8 • A. I can't recall. 9 Q. When you drafted the search warrant 10 affidavit — 11 A. Yes, sir. 12 Q. — this was less than a month into the 13 investigation that was being led by you, correct? 14 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 15 THE WITNESS. Uh-huh. 16- . BY MR. WEINBERG: It Q. You took it over in the third week of 18 September of 2005? 19 A. Towards the end of September, yes. 20 Q. There had — and you one of the first things 21 you did was to interview correct? 22 A. That was in October. 23 . Q. The first week in October, correct? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And you went to Ms...'s house, did you not? PROSE COURT 38 (Pages 464 to 467) REPORTING. AGENCY, INC.• Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 Electronically signed by Jeans Ricciuti (601 06042837-ebet-452c-a834-bc814•314d7a EFTA00298250 Page 468 Page 470 1 A. Yes, I did. 2 • Q. Ms... lived out of Palm Beach, did she not? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And the decision was made that you could 5 interview her without the presence of an officer from a 6 different department if she elected to come back to the 7 headquarters, correct? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. And you asked her to come back to the 10 headquarters, correct? 11 A. Yes, I did. 12 Q. And she agreed to corns back to the 13 headquarters, did she not? 14 A. Yes, she did 15 Q. And at that point in time, when she was at her 16 house and you were asking her to be cooperative, she 17 agreed to be cooperative; is that right? 18 A. Well, she agreed to come back to the Police 19' Department for further questioning. 20 Q. And she agreed essentially to cooperate with 21 your investigation of the interview, right? 22 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 23 THE S: Correct. I mean, she answered 24 the questions, if that's what you mean. 25 BY MR. WEINBERG: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18- .19 20 21 22 23 24 25 telephones that you use to call out, correct? A. Yes. Q. And are tape recorders which would permit you to tape record an outgoing phone call, correct? A. Yes. Q. And Ms... certainly told ou that she had spoken on occasion on the phone to A. Yea Q. And that she had spoken to for the purpose of scheduling certain visits to Mr. Epstein's home, correct? A. Yes. Q. And that she had Ms. phone number? A. Uh-huh. Q. And that she could have called Ms. while she was at the Police headquarters, correct? A. Yes. Q. And did you decide whether or not you would ask her to make such a call? A. It was within her statement where she claimed she wanted nothing to do with or Mr. Epstein, that she had stopped communicating with so it would have been out of the norm for her to call. Q. You have asked cooperating witnesses to place tape recorded telephone calls to targets of your Page 469 1 Q. And she answered them by identifying to you at 2 least six other people that she had brought and 3 introduced to Mr. Epstein, correct? 4 A. Correct. 5 Q. And she agreed to talk to you abort.; is 6 that right? 7 A. I believe so, yes. 8 Q. And she answered any questions you asked her; 9 is that right? 10 A. Yes. • 11 Q. Mr. Epstein was in town at the time; is that 12 right? 13 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 14 BY MR. WEINBERG: 15 Q. 'Do you recall that your incident report 16 reflects that his — 17 A. Yes, that his plane was in town, yes. 18 Q. And that Ms is at the Police Department 19 with you; is that right? 20 A. Ub-huh. 21 Q. She is being interviewed behind a one-way 22 glass so that the content of the interview was being .23 observed by others? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And within the Police Department are Page 471 1 investigation on other occasions, have you not? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And that was certainly an investigative 4 technique that you considered employing in this case? 5 A. Considered it. 6 Q. And then you made a decision as the case agent 7 not to request that Ms... lace a recorded phone call 8 to either Mr. Epstein or Ms. =, correct? '9 A. Correct. • 10 Q. And not to ref= to Mr. Epstein's house 11 . wearing a recorder wherein the events that transpired 12 • there and the conversations that occulted there could be 13 recorded and transmitted to some — to law enforcement, 14 correct? 15 A. Correct. 16 Q. Back to the search warrant affidavit. You've 17 authored other search warrant affidavits, have you not? 18 A. Uh-huh. 19 Q. And your goal when you authored them is to be 20 complete and accurate, is it not? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. You understand that the magistrate — strike 23 that — that the judge that's going to review the . 24 al£davit ordinarily has no other independent bases to 25 know whether or not to authorize a search of a residence 39 (Pages 468 to 471 ) . PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY,. INC. Electronically signed by Jeana RIcciutl (601 Electronically signed by Jeana RIcciuti (601 c5062637-abel-452c-a836-bc614.314d7a EFTA00298251 Page 472 1 .crept the information that's being provided to him by 2 the affiant, correct? 3 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 4 'THE WITNESS: Correct. 5 BY MR. WEINBERG: 6 Q. And these affidavits are under oath, correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And they're designed to be accurate and 9 complete, are they not? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Because you understand that omissions can be 12. as deceiving as misrepresentations, correct? 13 A. Correct. 14 Q. In this case, you were seeking authority to 15 conduct a search of Mr. Epstein's private residence, 16 coil 17 A. Correct. 18 Q. And you sought that permission based on an 19 affidavit that reported to the judge the results of 20 certain interviews you conducted? 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. And certain blowup investigations, such as 23 the results of trash pulls and phone records; is that 24 right? 25 A. Correa Page 474 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 Q. When you searched the Dell computer taken from 3 the second residence, did you conduct the search or did 4 a forensic expert conduct it? 5 A. It was sent to the Sheriffs office for 6 imaging, and then the imaging itself was looked at. 7 Q. Not one of your witnesses ever said that they 8 saw Mr. Epstein use a computer; is that correct? 9 A. I'm trying to recall. Not that I can recall. 10 Q. Not one of your witnesses said they ever 11 received an e-mail from Mr. Epstein, correct? 12 A. I can't recall at fills time. 13 Q. Not one of your witnesses ever said that when 14 they were at Mr. Epstein's house, they had ever looked 15 at anything on a computer at Mr. Epstein's house or ever 16 seen anything on a computer at Mr. Epstein's house? 17 A. I ain't recall. 18 Q. Not one of your witnesses ever said that they 19 had received an e-mail from anyone other than 20 Mr: Epstein who resided at Mr. Epstein's house, coned? 21 A. I can't recall if.. claimed that she got an 22. e-mail. That's why I'm not 100 percent certain on the 23 email. 24 Q. If it's not in the incident report, you have 25 no independent memory of anyone telling you that they Page 473 1 Q. Within the affidavit, you asked for permission 2 to search any DVDs, any CDs, any computer discs, any 3 media that you could find in Mr. Epstein's residence; is 4 that correct? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. And in het, you did seize such CDs, DVDs and 7 various media discs, did you not? A. We seized some. 9 Q. And you searched them -- 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. — not knowing what was on them? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. And likewise, you seized a Dell computer from 14 a guest house that was a separate and detached residence 15 on the Epstein property, is that correct? 16 A. Correct 17 Q. And you ultimately gave back anything seized 18 from that separate residence, understanding that it, in 19 essence, was the home of another individual, correct? 20 A. Because it was returned back to the innocent 21 party who had no evidence on his computer us to the 22 items that we were searching, yes. 23 Q. And when you searched these computers, you 24 were looking for anything; is that correct? 25 MS. ARBOUR: Form. Page 475 1 ever received an e-mail from or 2 anyone else that resided at Mr. Epstein's home, caret 3 A. Fin trying to recall. I can't recall. 4 Q. You do recall that the scheduling was done as 5 a routine practice by phone, correct? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And that largely, the conversations, to the 8 extent they were explained to you, were simply phone 9 calls to and from picking a time, picking a date 10 . when they would go to Mr. Epstein's home, correct? 11 . MS. ARBOUR: Form 12 THE WITNESS' I believe so. 13 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 . Q. And you saw message pads that confirmed El 15 the message was generally limited to, Pm availalco. 16 call me, Icon come, messages that were reflective of 17 scheduling and an openness to going to Mr. Epstein's 18 home, correct? 19 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 20 BY MR. WEINBERG: 21 Q. We can go through a lot of the messages this 22 . afternoon, but... 23 A. I believe so. 24 Q. The investigation you conducted, that included 25 the search on October 20th, continued into November and or 40 (Pages 472 to 475) • PROSE COURT REPORTING .AGENCY,' INC. Electronically aligned by Joana Fticclutt (601 Electronically signed by Joana Rlcciuti (601 c5062637-abol-462c-a836-bc614e314d7a EFTA00298252 Page 476 Page 478 1 December of 2005, correct? 1 it a fivocount charge against Mr. Epstein, two counts 2 ' A. Uh-huh. 2 with five allegations, if you recall? 3 Q. So it began in Much and it continued through 3 A. I can't recall. 4 December of 2005, correct? 4 • Q. There was ono count for lewd and lascivious, 5 A. Yes. 5 and one count for unlawful sex act that was returned by 6 Q. The first time you formalized a probable cause 6 a Palm Beach grand jury in and around June of 2006. 7 affidavit was May 1, 2006, correct? 7 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 8 A. Uh-huh. 8 BY MR. WEINBERG: 9 Q. And that probable cause affidavit resulted 9 Q. Let me go back. There was a grand jury 10 several months later when the State Attorney was 10 indictment, correct? 11 presenting a case to the grand jury? 11 A. Yes. 12 A. That was — that whole fiasco with the State 12 Q. Thereafter, there was information? 13 Attorney's office where originally we were going to go 13 A. Yes. 14 to the grand jury, then we postponed it, and then we 14 Q. The grand jury indictment charged 15 were going to go back to the grand jury, then we 15 solicitation, correct? 16 postponed it, and then they said no, we want a probable 16 A. I believe so. 17 cause affidavit. So I submitted it as a probable cause 17 Q. And that came about on either the end of Juno 18 affidavit, and they came back and said no, we want to go 18 or July of 2006, correct? And we can go back — 19 back to the grand jury — 19 A. I believe you're right I'm not 100 percent 20 Q. To cut through it, there was some, to put it 20 certain, but I believe you're right. 21 mildly, niscommunication between the State Attorneys 21 Q. And before the grand jury acted, did you and 22 office and the Palm Beach Police Department? 22 Chief Reiter discuss going to the Federal authorities 23 MR. GARCIA: Object to the form. 23 and bypassing the State Attorney? 24 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 24 A. I can't recall. I believe it might have been 25 MR. GARCIA: Mischaracterizes his testimony. 25 after, but I'm not 100 percent certain. Page 477 Page 479 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 1 Q. Do you have any records, notes, reports that 2 Q. Let me go back and start again. In April, 2 would refresh your memory as to the first time that 3 they told you they were going to conduct a grand jury 3 either you or Chief— or to your knowledge, 4. and subpoenas went out to certain people, okay? 4 Chief Reiter communicated with the Federal authorities 5 A. It was prior to April, I believe. I think we 5 and asked them to commence or initiate an investigation 6 were in March. 6 of Mr. Epstein? 7 Q. So in March, the grand jury subpoenas were 7. MS. ARBOUR: Form. 8 served for an April appearance. Does that chronology 8 THE WITNESS: No, Ideal have any records. 9 make sense? 9 BY MR. WEINBERG: 10 A. I think that's when the discussions were back 143• Q. And do you know whether or not — was it you 11 and forth about grand jury. 11 that made that initiation to the Federal government? 12 Q. And Ms. Jane Doe 103 was served with a gland 12 A. I believe so. 13 jury subpoena? 13 ' Q. And do you recall just how you did that? Did 14 A. I drove up and I served her with a grand jury 14 you drive over to the Federal — to the US Attorneys 15 subpoena. 15 office? Did you call the FBI? How was the initiation? 16 Q. And that grand jury was postponed or canceled; 16 A. I am also assigned to the Joint Terrorism Task 17 correct? 17 Force, so I have daily communication with people at the 18 A. Yes. 18 FBI, if not every other day. Iliad the clearance, you 19 Q. And a second grand jury was thereafter 3 9 to in and out of the office. But Fm trying to 20 convened during the summer of 2006, correct, months 20 recall. I believe it might have been me. 21 after the first one? 21 Q. And what's your best recollection as to how 22 A. Yes. 22 this occurred as to, did you go to the FBI, were you 23. Q. And taking that timeline, between the grand 23 talking to them in any way at a Joint Task Force 24 jury for which you subpoenaed Ms. Jane Doe 103 the first 24 meeting? Did you make it a point to bring this matter 25 time and the grand jury that ultimately returned — was 25 to their attention? What's your best recollection of 41 (Pages 476 to 479) PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. .(561) 832-7506 Bactronicaily signed by Jeans Rlcdutl 1601= Electronically signed by Jeans flicciuti (601 61012637-atirl-461:483843414414dra EFTA00298253 Page 480 1 how the dialogue commenced? 2 A. I don't recall. I can't recall. 3 Q. But you do recall at least one conversation 4 with the Federal authorities regarding Mr. Epstein? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Do you recall more than one conversation with 7 them? A. I recall a meeting with Junior Ortiz, who was 9 the supervisor, the local supervisor. He was present, 10 Chief Reiter was present, 'was present. That would 11 have been in the summer. 12 Q. Do you recall where that meeting occurred? • 13 A. It was at the FBI office because it was in 14 Junior's office. 15 Q. Was this before or after the Federal subpoena 16 went out to the Palm Beach P1) for the production of 17 their records regarding the State investigation? 18 A. This would have been before. 19 Q. And this is the first meeting you recall 20 wherein Mr. Epstein was discussed with the Federal 21 authorities in your presence? 22 A. Yes, I believe so. 23 Q. And do you recall whether it was you or 24 Chief Reiter that invited —that initiated this 25 meeting? 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 482 A. -- that they wanted everything pertaining to the case, and everything that was pertaining to the case went with them. Q. Do you have any logs, diaries, calendars, notes that would provide you with the basis to know the date of this meeting? A. Of the Federal subpoena, or — Q. No, of the meeting between you and Chief — A. No, there were no logs. Q. — Reiter that met with the special agents. Was there any follovrup that you engaged in? A. Not that I can recall. !mean, once they came in and took over the stag that was it. Q. How long did this meeting occur? A. About an hour or so. I wouldn't — I believe. Q. And do you recall questions that were asked of you during this hour? A. No. Q. And do you recall information that you cornmtmicated during this hour? A. No. Q. And do you recall any questions asked of Chief Reiter during this hour? A. No. Q. Do you recall anything said by Chief Reiter to Page 481 1 A. I can't recall. I'm trying to think back. 2 Q. So, who else was at this meeting? 3 A. I know Junior was there, I believe the Chief 4 was there, I was there. 5 Q. And do you recall whether or not you took any 6 notes that were memorialized in any report regarding the 7 content of this meeting? 8 A. No. 9 Q. And was the purpose of you and Chief Reiter 10 going to the FBI and having this meeting to request that 11. they take over the criminal investigation of 12 Mr. Epstein? 13 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 14 THE WITNESS: It wasn't to take over. I 15 believe it was to determine if there was any 16 Federal nexus or any Federal violation, but it 17 wasn't to take over, although subsequently that's 18 what happened, but... 19 BY MR. WEINBERG: 20 Q. And did you and Chief Reiter provide the 21 Federal authorities with whatever information was 22 available to you? 23 A. We didn't have a choice. They came in with a 24 Federal subpoena -- 25 Q. Following this meeting? Page 483 1 the FBI? 2 A. No, I'm sorry. 3 Q. Who first raised the issue of nexus, of 4 whether there was any Federal nexus to what had been, up 5 to this day, a purely local investigation of activities 6 being conducted of Mr. Epstein's private residence? 7 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 8 THE WITNESS: I can't recall whether it was me 9 or former Chief Reiter. 10 BY MR. WEINBERG: 11 Q. And those conversations occurred before this 12 meeting? 13 A. Either at the meeting or just before the 14 meeting. 15 Q. And did this meeting occur at or around the 16 time that Chief Reiter was writing letters expressing 17 his displeasure with the State and State Attorney's 18 investigation? 19 MS. ARBOUR: Object to f01111. 20 ME WITNESS: I believe it was after the 21 letters. 22 BY MR. WEINBERG: 23 Q. Do you remember those letters? 24 A. Yea 25 Q. And those letters were written or drafted and 42 (Pages 480 to 483 PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY, INC. Electronically signed by Jeana RitrJult (801 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 cS062637-abol-452c-ati36-bc614e314d7a EFTA00298254 Page 484 Page 486 1 1 written by Chief Reiter and sent to whom? 1 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 2 . A. They were sent to some of the parents of the 2 • THE WITNESS: I wouldn't consider what she did 3.. victims. 3 her investigation. I think she just looked at .4 Q. If I represent to you that at least some of 4 these girls' MySpace accounts. I wouldn't consider - 5 , - - those letters were dated in May of 2006, would that jog s that an investigation. 6 your memory as to when this meeting.with Special Agent 6 BY MR. WEINBERG: 7 Ortiz occurred? 7 Q. But she had in her possession at this time 8 A. I believe it would have been after those 8 your incident report? 9 letters. 9 MS. ARBOUR: Fenn. 10 Q. But before the return of the State grand jury 10 THE WITNESS: Yes. 11 indictment? 11 BY MR. WEINBERG: 12 A. I don't believe it was before the grand jury. 12 • Q. Your probable cause affidavit? 13 I believe it was after the sand jury. 13 • MS. ARBOUR: Form. 14 Q. So your best memory, therefore, would be that 14 THE WITNESS: I don't know if it was drafted 15 it would be after both the letters and the grand jury? 15 yet. 16 A. Comet. 16 BY MR. WEINBERG: 17 Q. You had different conversations with the State 17 Q. But she had the raw materials of your many 18 Attorney during this period, with one or more of the 18 interviews over many months, correct? 19 State attorneys? 19 MS. ARBOUR: Fenn. 20 A. Yeah, Assistant State attorneys. 20 THE WITNESS: Yes. 21 Q. Which Assistant State attorney do you recall 21 BY MR. WEINBERG: 22 talking to? 22 Q. She had the results of the search, did she 23 A. 23 not? 24 Q.64 recall any conversation with 24 A. Yes. 25 Ms. wherein you discussed whether or not your 25 Q. She had the message pads available to her, did Page 485 Page 487 1 witnesses were or were not victims? 1 she not? 2 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 2 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 3 THE WITNESS. I recall her picking and 3 THE WITNESS: I don't believe she had the 4 choosing who she wanted to refer to as a victim. 4 message pads. They were in our evidence. 5 Most of my conversations with her I know were 5 BY MR. WEINBERG: 6 documented in the report. 6 Q. But she could if - 7 BY MR. WEINBERG: 7 A. She had, I think, certain copies of certain 8 Q. 13o you recall words to the effect that you 8 pages of than. • 9 were frustrated with her because one of ha opinions 9 Q. She had a file as an Assistant State Attorney 10 were that there was no victims in this case? 10 in charge of a criminal' investigation of Mr. Epstein 11 - MS. ARBOUR: Fonn. 11 that was being conducted by your department, correct? 12 THE WITNESS: I did recall that conversation, 12 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 13 ' Yes- ' 13 THE YoTINESS: I believe she did have a file, 14 BY MR. WEINBERG: 14 yes, of items that were given to ha by us. 15 Q. And what do you recall of that conversation? 15 BY MR. WEINEIF.RO: 16 A. I recall her, after viewing some of the 16 Q. She didn't only have that which was provided 17 materials that were supplied to her by Dershowitz, she '17 by the Defense, 18 started to claim that the victims were not victims based 18 MS. ARBOUR; No. 19 on the materials that were supplied by the MySpaces. 19 THE WITNESS: No. She had items that we had 20 Q. The victims were not victims? 20 provided. 21 A. That's what she was claiming. 21 BY MR. WEINBERG: 22 Q. And this is the State Attorney's statements to 22 Q. And putting aside what you believe was the 23 you based on her investigation which included her review 23 more important evidence to her, which was her review of 24 of materials provided to her by Defense Counsel 24 the MySpace pages of certain of your witnesses, she did .25 Professor Alan Dersb3witr2 25 . communicate to you, the case agent, ha belief that 43 (Pages 484 to 487) ' . PROSE COURT REPORTING AGENCY; INC. Electronically signed by Juana Ricciuti (601 Electronically signed by Jeana Ricciuti (601 c5062637-abel-462c-a836-bc614e314d7a EFTA00298255 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 488 1 there was no victims i n this case? A. Based on what she was observing on those 3. pages. At least that's my opinion: 4 Q. But what her statement to you was: There are 5 no victims in this case? MS. ARBOUR: Forni THE WITNESS: I believe so. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And that was made after she reviewed the MySpace pages, comet? MS. ARBOUR: Form .. • 114E WITNESS: I believe so. BY MR. WEINBERG: O. But also after she had in her possession a very substantial investigative incident report that . reflected many interviews with many witnesses conducted both by you and others working with you and by others before you, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. ME WITNESS: In my opinion, once Mr. Dershowitz became involved, her demeanor on this case was completely different. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And let me go back to square one so we can finish this area and then have lunch. . ff 9 10 . 11 12 • 13. 14 • 15 . 16 17 •• 18. 19 20. . 21 22 23 24 25 . Page 49C Q. And she was the proseCutor in charge of the case? • MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: She was one of the prosecutors that was assisting in this case. -BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. AM when did she make the statement to you, . "There are no victims here"? A. This is when we were debating we go to the grand jury, not to go to the grand jury, write me a PC, don't write me a PC, we're going back to the grand jury. Q. Late spring of 2006? A. Like I said, this was ongoing from in the investigative stage. This was prior to the arrest . Q. And she was talking to you about going to the grand jury, correct? A. Whether we were going to go to the grand jury, then we weren't going to go to the grand jury. Q. But the first grand jury, which was scheduled in March or April, different witnesses were subpoenaed to that grand jury, correct? A. Correct. Q. Amongst them was Ms. Jane Doe 103, correct? A. Yes. Q. Amongst them was Ms. M., correct? Page 489 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. Okay? Before Mr. Dershowitz got involved, she 3 had an incident report, did she not? 4 A. IJh-hub. 5 Q. She had a probable cause — a search 6 warrant - 7 A. I take that back. Prior to Mr. Dershowitz 8 being involved, I don't believe she had the incident 9 report as of yet. It was still in the investigative 10 stage. The search had been conducted, interviews bad 11 been conducted, I had been providing her with copies of 12 the interviews, but I don't believe that she had a copy 13 of the incident report as of yet: 14 Q. Right. And she had copies of certain portions: 15 of what ultimately was incorporated into the incident ' 16 report, correct? 17 MS. ARBOUR: Form. . 18 THE WITNESS. I don't believe so. 19 BY MR. WEINBERG:. 20 Q. She had — did she not have copies of mulls 21 of- 22- A. When the case is under investigation, were 23 not going to release the incident report. She may have 24 had the face sheet and the — involving Mr. Epstein's 25 name on it,.but that's basically it. 1 2. 3 .4. • 5 6 7 10 11 • 12 . 13 14 15 16.. 17 18. . 19 20 21.. 22.: 23 24 .25 . . Page 491 A. Yes. Q. Was amongst them Ms. M.? A. Yes. Q. Who else? A. I believe this was it. I think that was the initial — they were going to do it in sections, and they were going to pick those girls to go first. Q. And the criminal offense that she was investigating at the time was felony solicitation? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: I don't know what she was looking into. I know what f was seeking. • BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. You and her had disagreements about witnesses and charges, correct? A. Yes. Q. -And you had disagreements about whether or not the witnesses that you denominated victims and she said weren't victims, you had disagreements over their credibility, did you not? A. Not over their credibility. It Was over, like, the MySpace pages I bad the feeling that she was 1134118 to — • Q. I don't mean to interrupt, but I want to stick to conversations and evidence and not feelings, so 44 (Pages 488 to 491) PROSE COURT 'REPORTING AGENCY, ':.:.•: :":(561)' -832-7506 Electronically signed by Jeana RIccluti (601M( Electronically signed by Jeana Rlccluti (601 c15062637-abe14620-68364x:614•314d7a EFTA00298256 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21. 22 23 24 25 Page 492 MR. GARCIA: Cm ahead and finish your answer, sir. Don't let him interrupt you. You can finish your answer. THE WITNESS: I had the feeling that she was trying to brush this case under the carpet. That was my — BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. You believed that she was minimizing the CIL% correct? . A. (Non-vabal response). Q. And you believed that one of the reasons she was minimizing the case was her review of the MySpace pages of some of your witnesses, correct? A. I know that the attitude of the State Attorney's office was very pro-assisting us from the very beginning. Once Mr. Dersbowitz became involved in the investigative stage, everything changed. Q. So let's talk about these MySpace pages for a minute. MySpace pages are an Internet site where the witnesses herself would put information out there that was available to whoever accessed the site, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. TIIE WITNESS: MySpacc is a social network that you can basically create anything that you want to create on a MySpace page. Page 494 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: 2 Q. And the State Attorney was weighing the 3 -.MySpace information with the information that they were 4 ,. receiving from the Palm Beach Police Department; is that 5 correct? 6 MS. ARBOUR: Form. 7 . . THE WITNESS: Well, the information and the 8 meetings that Mr. Dershowitz had with Barry 9 Krisher. 10 BY MR. WEINBERG: 11 - Q. And you were not present at some of these 12 meetings? 13 - A. Correct. 14 Q. So you don't know the full scope of the 15'• presentation being made by attorneys, including 16 Professor Dershowitt, on Mr. Epstein's behalf, correct? 17 A. I just found it odd that during the 18 investigative stage, we were already discussing 19 strategies on whether to prosecute or not to prosecute, 20 and this was still in the investigative stage of it. 21 • Q. Putting aside your feeltngs, you were not 22 present at these presentations? 23 A. Some I were. 24 Q. Some you were. You don't know the full scope 25 of the arguments and the evidence that was being 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 493 BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And you understood that certain of your witnesses created their own MySpace page, correct? A. It's possible. Q. And did you ever, in order to determine any of the background of your witnesses, go on their MySpace Pages? A. I did view some of their MySpace pages, and I did view sane of the items that Mr. Dersbowitz provided to Mr. Krisher, but we're talking about teenagers who put -- this is information that's put on a site that's not checked for any validity. I can create a site using your information. . Q. Did you ever ask Ms. lane Doe 103 in any followup interview, is there anything on your site that doesn't depict you? A. Actually, I never spoke to any of the victims • about — . Q. Did you ever do an independent investigation to determine whether any of the information provided by Professor Dershowilz to the State Attorney was fabricated or falsified or externally placed there by ' • . some third party? MS. ARBOUR: Pam. THE WITNESS. No 1 2 3 4 5 6 .7 8, 9- 10 . 11 .• 12 13' 14 15 16 17• • 18 IR: . 20: . 21 22 . 23 - 2.4 25.. Page 495 provided to the State Attorney by the Defense lawyers, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Form. THE WITNESS: The ones that I chose to go to, 'just — I was privy to some of the information but not all. BY MR. WEINBERG: Q. And the fact is that A. .Yesh.: . Q. — came to separate conclusions from case chief Detective Joe Recarey, regarding the gravity of Mr. Epstein's conduct, correct? • . MS. ARBOUR: Form. • . -THE WITNESS: Pm sorry? BY MR. WEINBERG: • Q. You and the State Attorney's office came to different conclusions in this case, correct? MS. ARBOUR: Porni. THE WITNESS: We had our disagreements, yes. • BY MR WEINBERG: Q. And those disagrectrients led to you and Chief Reiter inviting the FBI agent intothis investigation, correct? • . • •MS. ARBOUR: Pam. • • THE WITNESS: Not the disagreements. The faet 45 (Pages 492 to 495) PROSE COURT REPORTING -AGENCY, INC.. '4561) $32-7506 . Electronically signed by Jeana Rlectutl (601 Electronically signed by Joana Rlcciull (601 c5062637-abo1452c-a836-bc8146.314d7a EFTA00298257 Page 496 Page 4981 1. that the case wasn't— it wasn't-- in my eyes, it 1 CERTIFICAT3 2 SIATROP FLORIDA 2 wasn't any justice served. 3 COUN1Y OF PALM REACH 3 BY MR. WEINBERG: ' 4 4 Q. Your disagreanents with the State Attorneys $ LkamRieciuri. Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of 5 charge decision led you to go outside the State law 6 Florida a Lana, do hereby certify that the 6 enforcement community and transmit information about aforemanional witness was by me lint duly mom to 7 testify the whole truth; that I was unbolt() to and 7 Mr. Epstein to Federal authorities? did moon said deposition in stenotype; and that the 0 MS. ARBOUR: Form, asked and answered. 8 foregoing pages numbered 319 to 495 are a true and cartel transcription of my shorthand into of said 9 THE WITNESS: And also to see if there was any a deposition. 10 Federal nexus pertaining to the case. 10 I further certify that aid deposition vein taken at the time and place hereinabove set forth and 1 1 BY MR. WEINBERG: it that the taking of sad deposition was commenced and 12 Q. But you sought to determine if there was a completed as haeinabove set out. 13 Federal nexus relating to this case as a result of your 12 1 further certify that I am not an attorney or 14 disagreements with the charge decisions that were being 13 counsel crony of the parties, nee am I a relative a 15 made by.your State Attorney, correct? employee of any attorney a counsel of party connected 14 with the action, nor an I &mei* interested in the 16 MS. ARBOUR: Form. action. 17 • THE WITNESS: I believe so. 15 The icaton of this transcript Lanny 18 MR WEINBERG: Why don't we Igo a break and 16 does not apply to reproduction of die same by any 19 have lunch. means unless under the direct °retro] and/or direction 20 17 :u of the catifying reporter. 21 MR. WEINBERG: as Dated this lath ft , of May, 2010. 22 (A luncheon recess was taken.) 20 C.__ ../ 23 21. earn Rleciutl, FPR, CLR 24 23 4 25 25 Page 497 1 CERTIFICATE OF OATH 2 STATE OF FLORIDA 3 COUNTY OF PALM BEACH 4 5 6 I, the undersigned authority, certify that 7 JOSEPH RECAREY pctsonally appeared before Inc and was 8 duly sworn on the 27th day of April, 2010. 9 10 Witness my hand and official seal this 27th 11 day of April, 2010. 12 13. 14 15 C --j..40 16 Jeana Ricciuti, RPR, PPR,ter 17 Notary Public - State of Florida My Commission Expires: 2/17/2013 18 My Commission Na: DD 854778 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4.6 (Pages 496 to 498) PROSE COURT REPORTING 'AGENCY, INC. ' Electronically signed by Jeans Ricciuti(601M) Electronically signed by Jeana RIcclutl (601 c5062637-abel-452c-a836-bc614e31447a EFTA00298258