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C ESRB ARON OREESE AGAIN Dane UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, v ee FRED ORS ZED 22 Peake S BOF at 76 7 PAUL M. DAUGERDAS, ET AL., February 15, 2012 Ce2frdau7 Conrad - cross 7 Page 233 | C2frdau7 Conrad - cross Page 235 1 sir. 1 up. 2 Q. You know as you sit here today that the government is | 2 Q. That must disappoint you, that the sentencing date has been 3 considering bringing perjury charges against you? 3 put off? 4 MR. OKULA: Objection, your Honor, 4 A. [have no opinion as to that, sir. 5 A. No, I'm not. 5 Q. But it's a fact you know, right? 6 MR. OKULA: Unfair characterization. 6 A. It's pretty self-evident, sir. 7 THE COURT: Sustained. 7 Q. Is it your view as you sit here today that there are no 8 Q. Have you thought that there is a possibility that since you | 8 likely consequences to you other than this unpleasant hearing $ lied repeatedly in this courtroom, the government might bring | 9 for having perjured yourself in this courtroom? 10 criminal charges against you? 10 A. I don't know what the government is going to do, sir. 11 12 13 14 |15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. Sir, that's why I have use immunity at the moment we speak. Q. But you didn't know you had use immunity when you came here today, did you? A. I knew it was a large probability that I would. Q. Can I ask you a question? A. Sure. Q. If that testimony is completely the opposite of the testimony you gave this morning, what conclusions should we draw from that? A. [don't know what your question means, sir. Q. This morning you told us you had no idea you were going to get use immunity, and this afternoon you told us, just now, it was a large possibility. Which of those is true? A. I guess both. The judge didn't confer immunity until I invoked my Fifth Amendment privilege. C2frdau7 Page 234 |C Q. When you came here today, did you know that there was use L 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 g 9 10 Ti, |12 13 14 }15 16 17 18 |19 20 21 22 23 24 \25 Conrad - cross immunity or not, a distinct possibility that you would be charged with perjury? A. No. Q. You have convinced yourself there is no chance of such a charge? A, Idon't really think it matters what I convince myself of, sir. Q. It matters enormously, MR. OKULA: Objection, THE COURT: Sustained. Q. When you entered this courtroom today, did you believe there was a possibility that charges would be brought against you for perjury during the voir dire process of this trial? A, Not really. Q. That's because you think the government doesn't care that jurors lie during voir dire? A. I'm not in their heads. I can't answer that. Q. As you sit here today, you think you have lied during voir dire repeatedly, caused this entire process, and that there will be no consequences for it? MR, OKULA: To the form, your Honor, THE COURT: Sustained as to form. Q. As you sit here today -- A. Sure there are consequences. The sentencing date was moved 11 12 13 14 | 15 16 17 18 }19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q. You know the government could bring perjury charges against you? A. Maybe. I don't know. Q. You know that whether criminal charges are brought against you will be determined by what you refer to as "our government," is that correct? MR. OKULA: Objection. THE COURT: Overruled. A. Can you rephrase that, please? Q. You know that the decision as to whether criminal charges will be brought against you will be made by what you call "our government"? A. You're quoting from my letter. I don't know who else's government it would be. But we're sitting here in the Southern District, so kudos, I guess you're correct. 2 3 4 5 6 iD 8 3 10 11 12 13 14 15 (16 17 18 19 20 /22 (22 (23 24 25 2irdau7 Conrad - cross Page 236 Q. Which is to say you also know that if your answers today displease the government, there is no likelihood of those criminal charges being brought? MR. OKULA: Objection, your Honor, THE COURT: Sustained. Q. Have you thought about that possibility, Ms. Conrad? A. Not really until your questions brought it up. MR. SHECHTMAN: No further questions. THE COURT: Anything further on redirect, Mr. Rotert or Ms. McCarthy? MR. ROTERT: Thank you, your Honor, no, nothing for Ms, Guerin, MS, McCARTHY: Nothing further. THE COURT: Anything further, Mr. Okula? MR. OKULA: Nothing, Thank you, your Honor. THE COURT: Ms. Conrad, 1 would like to ask you, given your acknowledgment here today that you misrepresented any number of material things about yourself during voir dire because you wanted to make yourself marketable for the jury, and you perjured yourself, why did you do that? THE WITNESS: Ast had mentioned, { knew [ could be a fair, unbiased juror, and substantivelywise it seemed as if it would be an interesting trial experience. And having been suspended for so long, I guess mentally I would think maybe I'm back in the swing of things now. | SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS (59) Page 233 - Page 236 DOJ-OGR-00009951